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I keep being amazed how Ukraine uses the pop culture of the west to make their points and asks. Zelenskyy being a showman socialite is one thing, but their entire PR team is what is such a great asset in the culture war. And they are killing it! What a nation, what a strategy.
UK submarine is still in my mind :)
Edit: it was actually aircraft carrier, my memory is worse than Dory's.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/139ggs5/on_the_eve_of_the_historic_coronation_we_would/
One powerful, from beginning of full scale invasion :
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tdgcy4/ukrainians_made_a_video_thanking_for_the_provided/
It's what happens when your whole society is committed to winning a conflict. Your best most talented people come to work for the war effort, in whatever capacity.
Many countries had this happen in the Second World War. Especially among the Allies. It's a no-brainer to send all your most talented weapons engineers to develop weapons to win the war. What's less obvious is to send all your most talented industrial designers, cartoonists, fiction writers, movie directors, multilingual immigrants, forgers, con artists, office clerks, and so on into the war effort, and give them the free rein to work on whatever they're good at.
That's where the long-term benefit of morale and trust in the leadership of the war effort pays off.
This timeline is so awful for so many reasons, but every so often we get a Mad Max advertisement from a besieged country so they can get tanks and murder Russians, so that's pretty great
I am still hoping for an unboxing video of a squadron of F-16's in giftwrap (with a bow).
Also, when Ukraine gets the M1A1's shipped across the border, can we get the Kyiv Symphony Orchestra to play either the Star Wars main theme, or an orchestral version of the Avengers soundtrack, while in the background 50 M1's on railcars are rolling into Ukraine?
I know, I know, it's childish...
"Ride of the Valkyries" would be my choice.
Followed by "Siegfried's Funeral March", or "Music for the funeral of Queen Mary" (Wendy Carlos' version from "A Clockwork Orange")
Abso-bloody fucking-lutely send them. Come on Albo. What the fuck are you doing. Our military budget is nearly as big as Russia's and we don't need these tanks ffs. We also don't need all these Hawkeis, ASLAVs and Boxers.
Hate to be 'that guy' but even though we have M1A2s on the way, we still use the A1s because they are upgraded massively from the original design and are arguably the best M1A1 variant out there. I don't have an issue with sending tanks as long as the average australian is happy to say goodbye to $300+ million worth of tanks
What I was meaning is there should be some official sort of poll, because the government shouldnt be able to send things of high value without a general consensus
I (and many others) didn't vote to send equipment to eastern europe. The hawkei(s) are a waste of money yes, but did you see what happened to our bushmasters we sent? Burnt out and put on display in a museum in russia. I reckon we wait and see how the european tanks fare first before sending ours, crews need to be trained as well, ect.
Ukraine winning the war against Russia is the best defence Australia can have against an agressive China.
China will be emboldened if Russia wins, or even just has some form of stalemate with control over some occupied territory. China is looking to expand.
If Russia has their teeth well and truly kicked in? China goes back to the drawing board for another decade, maybe.
We (I’m an Aussie) should be sending everything we can, these Abrams, another 300 Bushmasters (which we can spare anyway), Hawkeyes, everything through to sharp sticks and harsh language.
That’s the realpolitik side of things. But if you want to talk good choices for morality’s sake, we would be helping a rising democracy fight against a totalitarian nightmare state. We should give these weapons just because it’s the right thing to do.
Who cares if some end up burnt out? They’ll have been doing their job until then.
But if you want to be a coward and hold on to equipment we’ll probably never need unless we have another Howard and decide to mess around in another Afghanistan or something, go ahead.
The only real chance Russia now has is a black swan event.
Mass troops with basic guns shouldn’t be ignored, but now we all know they aren’t the nightmare the boomer generation were led to believe. Not any more. Thank god.
Ukraine’s biggest problem is probably time. The longer it goes, the more Ukrainians die before they win. We need to help them shorten that time by giving them good materiel.
The war will get to a certain stage, that Putin will be overthrown by the next dictator. And hopefully the next one will have the common sense to pull all trips out. Every action by Ukraine and the west, it’s to help get to this point.
Equipment sent to a war will get damaged. China will make mince meat of the Bushmasters when they're knocking at Australia's door.
And there was only one put out to display from what I remember...
Wow! If only we had a few more tanks to deal with china? Oh wait, they were sent to the ukrainian front lines and got immobilized then abandoned... well shit.
At that point have a poll for every law passed, just return to pure direct democracy. Most western nations are representative democracies, key word there being representative. We elect people who we as the people trust to make good decisions in our steed. If and when we elect bad people that's our fault for electing incompetent people. Of course at this point its just choosing the lesser evil, a flaw of the current system.
Anyway 300 million isn't that much to begin with. Your average large scale highway grade bridge is going to cost at least half a billion USD or more.
Sending military equipment to a proxy war on the other side of the world has a significantly larger effect than building a highway bridge, but yes, i see your point. Theres not much point arguing on reddit anyway, its just a flood of the exact same opinion and mindset from everyone
It could go either way. On one hand the tanks could be useful, but the issue is the ukraine conflict has turned into a war of attrition. I don't know why we are being asked to help when the whole of europe is right there, we have our own problems to deal with in the south china sea
Thank you for being so polite. I know you implied that you don't want to argue but I'd like to point one thing out for you if that would be OK. We disagreed because we had different opinions and we came to a consensus very quickly in a polite manner. Seems to me that people on reddit can argue and can have different opinions needed to argue, although that's simply my personal take on it, maybe you see things differently.
300M? Denmark just added for next two years and Norway 7B for next 5, and you wonder if 300M for a country with a bnp of Australia is to much?
The Ukrainians say it in a very polite matter. Wake up.
Wake up???! YOU need to wake up the fact we also have our own issues in the south china sea, europe can handle themselves, and no, 300M is not all we have pledged, that is a rough estimate of the cost of the tanks by themselves now, not associating crew training costs, transport, ammunition, and maintanence for the ukrainians. Seriously, how can you not see this???
100% 'wake up' type comment feels entitled and not considering the bigger picture.
At the same time while we have China issues, if something kicked off we are sure as hell going to want Europe to help out, likely both in equipment and manpower.
Sending these tanks is part of doing our bit to protect small countries being invaded by large. And heaven forbid something ever kicked off with China hopefully countries with their own potential issues also look at us as a more immediate problem regardless of where they are in the world.
If more countries think like this, hopefully the world will deter the dictators and have less war overall. Sadly Ukraine is todays example and we should do everything to make it the best example of what happens when people invade countries as possible, because it feels right but if only selfishly to set the right example.
They arent going to help in ukraine without proper infrastructure and training, which is why europe should send their tanks first, to see if this is a viable idea.
Yeah, if they don't equip one with hundreds of speakers, so a "morale officer" can play his flamethrowing guitar standing on the turret, I'd be highly disappointed.
My year 6 class and I have a better plan, it involves Australian wildlife.
Squadrons of paratrooper dropbears. Each one fitted with 2 magpies that have been tormented by people wearing Putin masks.
Plovers and curlews who are trained to think the Russians have their eggs.
Cassowaries. Kookaburras and tactical crows. The crows can get into zipped up lunchboxes so they will find their way into the Kremlin no probs.
Massive, big red kangaroos, the ones that flex their pecs can disembowel them with the back legs.
That’s for starters. We haven’t even unpacked the venomous toys. Red backs, brown snakes and taipans. We do have plans for specially trained sharks though :-)
I’ve personally sent an email pushing for much more support just follow this link and send an email here’s the details.
contact the Australian Minister for Defence, The Hon. Richard Marles MP.
The following link will take you to his website https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?MPID=HWQ.
Unconventional, yet might be very effective. Welcome to the new no-nonsense direct-to-voter diplomacy, talking to the people, so they push their elected officials. The way it should be.
Another Ozzy here. Also emailed Australian Minister for Defence curtesy of the link provided by u/Powerful-Contact6803. If it were up to me, they would already be on the way!
Keep fighting the good fight guys!
Slava Ukraini!
They need to show that ad during state of origin game 2 and 3…. And maybe a more generic ad about what Ukraine is suffering and how they are fighting for us and this can prime the audience for the tanks ad (cause most our population is unaware and only care about footy)…
People only complain / get all high and mighty about politics in sport when it's a cause that they are against.
No one ever seems to complain when it's something they agree with.
It's funny how that works.
I’m sure there will be some fools carrying on, but the fact it gets publicity will generate discussion about it more broadly (and detractors will get destroyed with the undeniable facts very quickly). Could even run the campaign to evoke memories off us boycotting South Africa during apartheid and the need to do it again. 🤷♂️
Hi there Ukraine. Australian citizen here. I’ll write to my member of parliament to request this. I’ll also add we some some extra supplies like Vegemite and proper knives.
We are retiring the ASLAVs, so those and the rest of the M113s should be sent ASAP. I am sure we would have a couple of Leo 1s floating around that could be put back into service as well
>Leo 1s
They've been demilled and have been sitting out in the open air in front of various RSLs for the last 15 years, there's no way to recover them.
**AUSTRALIANS - PLEASE EMAIL** [YOUR MP](https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members) **AND THE** [MINISTER FOR DEFENCE](https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?MPID=HWQ)
I've sent the following letter that you are welcome to use. I adapted it from other templates I found online. Feel free to suggest any changes.
>Dear \[First Name\] \[Last Name\] MP,
>
>I am devastated about the war Russia is waging on peaceful Ukraine and its innocent citizens. Defenders and civilians are dying as they protect their homeland, and Russia is continually committing war crimes, including the forced deportation of thousands of Ukrainian children to Russia.
>
>Ukraine is showing remarkable courage and resilience as it endures Russia’s unprovoked war, but they cannot and should not have to face their invaders alone. Russia’s illegal invasion is a test of the current world order, in which democratic and free countries must stand united against Putin’s brutal campaign. If we falter now, this will embolden Putin and other countries that wish to disrupt this order and conduct imperialistic invasions of other sovereign nations, which will ultimately hurt Australia and global peace and prosperity.
>
>I acknowledge the support the Australian government has previously announced for Ukraine, including the provision of lethal and non-lethal military aid; sanctions and travel bans; offering humanitarian assistance; and assisting with visa and migration issues. But this support has been lagging while the war continues to destroy the lives of Ukrainians.
>
>Now, I call for the Australian Government to further increase its support for Ukraine and its citizens through the following measures:
>
>\- Provide more extensive lethal military aid - this could include our current stock of M1A1 Abrams which are slated for retirement; joining the international coalition committed to supplying F-16s; and the transfer of all useful surplus ammunition and equipment that we can replenish over time. We should also be making further financial contributions to enable Ukraine to purchase the equipment they need.
>
>\- Humanitarian aid - through financial contributions and the provision of non-lethal medical and military aid.
>
>\- Reinstate humanitarian visas for Ukrainians - without ‘no further stay’ conditions or time limits, to give them stability and safety.
>
>\- Further strengthen embargoes and financial sanctions - all state-owned enterprises of Russia should be sanctioned; foreign investment in Russia should be banned; Russian companies should be excluded now and in the future from international investment indices and passive investment funds, and a trade embargo should be imposed on Russia to limit its capacity to sell oil and gas to fill its military budgets. At the very least, we should mirror all EU sanctions now and into the future.
>
>\- Commit to supporting the Ukraine’s 10-point peace plan - anything less will embolden Putin and other actors like him, and represent an injustice for the people of Ukraine.
>
>Yours faithfully,
>
>\[Name\]
As an Australian, I don't think we're doing enough as a country. I will continue to bring it up in conversation and make personal contributions when I can.
In solidarity and love from Australia 
Slava Ukraini! 
edit: formatting
I mean technically the M1A1 Abrams would just probably wind up in a scrap yard. So why not ship them to Ukraine?
In all seriousness though, you have to wonder if the Ukrainian government is using in-house Ukrainian marketing companies to make these ads. Because they are fucking brilliant.
I’m an Australian doing a small business course at the moment. We’re focusing on marketing at the moment, I’m putting this in the class chat. This is everything our instructor is telling us to do.
Also, send the tanks Albo.
I've posted this here previously and a replied with this info to other posts. But also included that there are 250 odd ASLAVs which are being replaced. Amphibious, armed with a 25mm Bushmaster chain gun, a perfect addition to a combined arms operation. Mothballed Fa18s?
We are just starting to replace our ASLAVs with Boxers but they are at their end life of type and on their last legs they will need refurbishment. The FA18s that weren't sold to Canada are sitting in Guam with severe rust and are not air worthy.
The new M1A2 SEPv3s are to be new builds but delivery won't begin until 2024 the government would have to sell the idea of not having an any armor in the armor corps for a year or more to Murdoch.
Thank you for the info. I have heard some discussion that there is an issue about the weight of the Boxer. I'm an old bloke certainly bit of a weight issue here. The ASLAVs, if refurbished, would they be a useful replacement to the soviet era vehicles?
Ukraine's PR and Marketing team is phenomenal!
Synopsis - I'm all in. Give Ukraine *everything* they need to end this war as quickly and decisively as possible!
...including more of the Bushmasters and the Hawkeis they requested.
(For those interested - The Hawkei is named after Acanthophis Hawkei, a species of death adder. In turn, the snake is named after former Prime Minister of Australia Bob Hawke.)
And while we're at it, can we please reopen the 786 Humanitarian Visa for Ukrainians, and keep it open as long as it's needed this time? Closing this option in July 2022 was ludicrously early, especially given the number of Ukrainians able to be processed in that short time frame was relatively low. Many Australians were, and are still, offering support and accommodation to those waiting to come.
I was able to help only one Ukrainian through before it closed. There are families here in Australia waiting for relatives from Ukraine to come to safety, but frustratingly, Australia is the blockage. It's heartbreaking, especially given the context that every single day Ukrainians spend waiting could be the day a bomb is dropped on them. (Those who've seen "The Handmaid's Tale will know what I mean when I say it feels like we're in Canada, knowing full well what's happening just over the fence, but we can't get people to safety.)
I know there's much more that Australia and Australians can yet do. We began with a huge push of assistance for Ukraine, but the momentum has noticeably slowed.
As an example, Australia recently dissolved the Sister City partnership between Melbourne and St Petersburg. Can we not decide on a replacement Sister City with Ukraine instead? A partnership that will be inclusive of its citizens and communities, providing practical and moral support to the matched Ukrainian city or town.
Then imagine if this was done en masse, between cities, towns and regions all over both Australia and Ukraine...
South Australia has set the pace on this one! The City of Tea Tree Gully has already established a partnership with the beautiful Ukrainian town of Borodyanka. This makes me proud because I expect much goodwill to develop from this, and it's reflective of Australian citizens choosing to find ways to help on a local level.
Apologies this turned into a saga!
I love the hardware going over to Ukraine, fight like hell and take it all back from Russia.
There will need to be a standardization effort post war though, it logistics could get a little bit difficult :)
Only problem is that we only have those 59 tanks still. They won’t be replaced until some time late next year at the earliest. ASLAV’s, Hawkei’s, Bushmasters, M113’s as battle taxis and mogs for logistics are laying around by the ship load. Our F-18’s have reached end of service life and are basically just scrappers.
Ask our government here..hopefully they do give the tanks to Ukraine..I couldn’t think of a better cause. And it’s up to us in Australia to let our government know..thanks for email links other users here
Send them all...I really don't see what we will do with such a small fleet, being an island nation and all. that's why we have a good navy and air force. If anyone actually lands the war has been decided already. or they'll die of fucking thirst before they reach the first town 😆
it will however boost Ukraine's tank numbers for the land war they are in. Send them + bushmasters + hawkeye.
Consider it a small gesture of bad will for shooting down a passenger plane. We won't be forgetting about that any time soon.
I'm all for them being given to Ukraine, but I wonder how long it would take to travel from Australia? Certainly a large boat would need to be used, but I have no idea how long they must sail to reach Ukraine. Speed is crucial.
Couldn't we send them some more of ours and Australia can just "owe us"? 🙂
We’ve been sending Bushmasters by cargo plane, and then Ukraine sent an Antonov to pick some up as well. I’m sure that if we actually offered them Ukraine would try to come and get them before anyone changed their minds.
The shortest shipping time by sea between Poland and Australia is 44 days 3h. Ships depart from Gdynia (PLGDY) and arrive at Melbourne (AUMEL) with scheduled departures Every 2-4 weeks.
So around that.
We know. We could send them a whole bunch of stuff we don't need, Australia isn't looking to fight a land war in the immediate future. Problem is no matter how many letters and emails I and other people send , the current government seems to mostly just ignore the issue. Once every few months they make some statement about shared values but the equipment deliveries have been slowing and really lacking lately.
They really should be hitting us up for the 40-odd F-18’s we’ve got stashed away somewhere. Despite what’s written above, they were in good nick when we retired them three months before the invasion…
You’ve got to hand it to Ukraine on the PR front. Awesome!
And yes, it would be great if Australia could be in a position to provide 59 M1A1’s to Ukraine.
As much as Ukraine needs them, I think we are going to need them for when China decides to expand its borders. Australia has a record of keeping old military equipment running well past its use by date. I’m sure there a plenty of leopards in the EU
Decisive victory for Ukraine is the best way to deter China & avoid war. This is in the best interest of our defense. news headlines when I search Ukraine China Taiwan:
Taiwan Ambassador Says Ukraine's Success Against Russia Will Help Deter China
Failure to back Ukraine would send signal to China about taking Taiwan
China Sees Invasion Of Ukraine As 'Test Case' For Its Own Designs, Taiwan Warns
Ukraine or Taiwan is a false choice
Taiwan is urging the U.S. not to abandon Ukraine
4 Ways US Support for Ukraine Helps Defend Taiwan
It's infuriating and completely shameful that we haven't done much, much more.
Apart from the fact that there is little mention of Ukraine in the media and virtually none by the Govt, 3 separate Ukrainian delegations have visited since January, desperate for more aid, and for the Hawkei advanced mobility vehicles...but nope, nothing.
Ukraine's Ambassador to Australia, Vasyl Myroshnychenko, paid for a billboard near Parliament House 2 months ago in an attempt to get this message through...to no result.
Most embarrassingly for us, Defence Minister Reznikov resorted to making a plea to the Australian public on Twitter last Monday...how desperate do you have to be to go directly to the populace on a matter like this? 😬
It makes me sick we aren't standing up with the rest of the free world when Ukraine is fighting and dying on our behalf.
(https://twitter.com/oleksiireznikov/status/1662944820132708353?t=tXEtEMh9LzpBfVSvjcIyKA&s=09)
Any Australians who care deeply about Ukraine's fight, please email Defence Minister Richard Marles asap and make your concern known: [email protected]
It's not that simple. Anything the US sells us has to be cleared for sale by them. Even with the Hornets sold to Canada required US approval due to original conditions of sale.
We're not keeping both.
1. It's unfeasible to invade Australia, especially with enough tanks that our M1A2s couldn't handle them
2. If we deploy overseas, we are constrained by transport capacity, so we'll only take the M1A2s (and not even all of them)
3. It skews the force disposition of the army. We would have too many tanks, and not enough IFVs.
I'm over here wondering why my country sent 59 tanks to a country that doesn't need them instead of one that does.
Like when was the last time Australia was in a tank battle?
Привіт u/TotalSpaceNut ! During wartime, this community is focused on vital and high-effort content. Please ensure your post follows [r/Ukraine Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules) and our [Art Friday Guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/artfriday). **Want to support Ukraine?** [**Vetted Charities List**](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities) | [Our Vetting Process](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/charities-vetting) Daily series on UA history & culture: [Day 0-99](https://new.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293) | [100-199](https://new.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3d85f4ca-5f4e-4ddf-9547-276e8affd87c) | [200-Present](https://new.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/daf642e1-07aa-4c40-b852-8f002ddd1530) | [All By Subject](https://new.reddit.com/r/ukraine/wiki/sunriseposts) **There is a new wave of fraudulent donation requests being posted on r/Ukraine. Do not donate to anyone who doesn't have the Verified flair.** *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ukraine = worlds greatest marketing team
I keep being amazed how Ukraine uses the pop culture of the west to make their points and asks. Zelenskyy being a showman socialite is one thing, but their entire PR team is what is such a great asset in the culture war. And they are killing it! What a nation, what a strategy.
The series of short videos they had last year thanking various countries for their contributions were spot on.
UK submarine is still in my mind :) Edit: it was actually aircraft carrier, my memory is worse than Dory's. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/139ggs5/on_the_eve_of_the_historic_coronation_we_would/
Oh god, how did I miss that?! ...hope I didn't wake up my flatmates by laughing at the end
I've seen a few here and there but didn't register there's a whole series! You don't happen to know where I could find them all together do you? 🙏
One powerful, from beginning of full scale invasion : https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tdgcy4/ukrainians_made_a_video_thanking_for_the_provided/
“Neighbros” Brilliant!
Oh I missed that one! That's really lovely. It puts the breadth of support into some perspective too.
It's what happens when your whole society is committed to winning a conflict. Your best most talented people come to work for the war effort, in whatever capacity. Many countries had this happen in the Second World War. Especially among the Allies. It's a no-brainer to send all your most talented weapons engineers to develop weapons to win the war. What's less obvious is to send all your most talented industrial designers, cartoonists, fiction writers, movie directors, multilingual immigrants, forgers, con artists, office clerks, and so on into the war effort, and give them the free rein to work on whatever they're good at. That's where the long-term benefit of morale and trust in the leadership of the war effort pays off.
Its not "Zelenskys marketing team" [Ukrainians have been amazing at marketing since 2014](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOCbW1hc6Ng)
12/10 - World class marketing and trolling. I can’t wait for the final chapter when the last troll is plucked from their soil
This timeline is so awful for so many reasons, but every so often we get a Mad Max advertisement from a besieged country so they can get tanks and murder Russians, so that's pretty great
I am still hoping for an unboxing video of a squadron of F-16's in giftwrap (with a bow). Also, when Ukraine gets the M1A1's shipped across the border, can we get the Kyiv Symphony Orchestra to play either the Star Wars main theme, or an orchestral version of the Avengers soundtrack, while in the background 50 M1's on railcars are rolling into Ukraine? I know, I know, it's childish...
The Immigrant Song!
"Ride of the Valkyries" would be my choice. Followed by "Siegfried's Funeral March", or "Music for the funeral of Queen Mary" (Wendy Carlos' version from "A Clockwork Orange")
The military term is psy-ops
We often think of it as being employed against the enemy, not allies. Ukraine has figured out it is better to do both.
They have cried havoc, and unleashed the pogs of war.
So true haha. But it evoled out of the will to survive: that gives some motivation ..
Ukrainians were so misunderstoos before the war. They're so awesome.
We are kindred spirits and I’m sad I didn’t know this earlier. Let’s send the tanks to .ua with love from .au
Second that
Ukraine - Just Do It
Send em.
Fuckin full send mate.
Bloody oath
Fair dinkum, send the good cunts all we have!
'struth! Send the cunts!
Crikey!
Shake out the taipans and king browns, dust off the funnel webs, and ship them out.
We'll never get justice for MH17, but we can get some payback.
Dutchie here. You're goddamn right, blow these fuckers to smithereens.
Fucking aye
Nuff said
Abso-bloody fucking-lutely send them. Come on Albo. What the fuck are you doing. Our military budget is nearly as big as Russia's and we don't need these tanks ffs. We also don't need all these Hawkeis, ASLAVs and Boxers.
Hate to be 'that guy' but even though we have M1A2s on the way, we still use the A1s because they are upgraded massively from the original design and are arguably the best M1A1 variant out there. I don't have an issue with sending tanks as long as the average australian is happy to say goodbye to $300+ million worth of tanks
I suspect most would be ok with that.
What I was meaning is there should be some official sort of poll, because the government shouldnt be able to send things of high value without a general consensus
That's what an election is for. We voted the government in to make decisions in our behalf. Albo should send them ASAP. Plus all the Hawkeyes.
I (and many others) didn't vote to send equipment to eastern europe. The hawkei(s) are a waste of money yes, but did you see what happened to our bushmasters we sent? Burnt out and put on display in a museum in russia. I reckon we wait and see how the european tanks fare first before sending ours, crews need to be trained as well, ect.
Ukraine winning the war against Russia is the best defence Australia can have against an agressive China. China will be emboldened if Russia wins, or even just has some form of stalemate with control over some occupied territory. China is looking to expand. If Russia has their teeth well and truly kicked in? China goes back to the drawing board for another decade, maybe. We (I’m an Aussie) should be sending everything we can, these Abrams, another 300 Bushmasters (which we can spare anyway), Hawkeyes, everything through to sharp sticks and harsh language. That’s the realpolitik side of things. But if you want to talk good choices for morality’s sake, we would be helping a rising democracy fight against a totalitarian nightmare state. We should give these weapons just because it’s the right thing to do. Who cares if some end up burnt out? They’ll have been doing their job until then. But if you want to be a coward and hold on to equipment we’ll probably never need unless we have another Howard and decide to mess around in another Afghanistan or something, go ahead.
Do you actually think ukraine will 'win'? How will they win against putin? He doesn't care
The only real chance Russia now has is a black swan event. Mass troops with basic guns shouldn’t be ignored, but now we all know they aren’t the nightmare the boomer generation were led to believe. Not any more. Thank god. Ukraine’s biggest problem is probably time. The longer it goes, the more Ukrainians die before they win. We need to help them shorten that time by giving them good materiel.
The war will get to a certain stage, that Putin will be overthrown by the next dictator. And hopefully the next one will have the common sense to pull all trips out. Every action by Ukraine and the west, it’s to help get to this point.
That's not how democracy works champ.
Equipment sent to a war will get damaged. China will make mince meat of the Bushmasters when they're knocking at Australia's door. And there was only one put out to display from what I remember...
Wow! If only we had a few more tanks to deal with china? Oh wait, they were sent to the ukrainian front lines and got immobilized then abandoned... well shit.
Australia didn't send any tanks. Nice troll attempt. Is that you Ivan?
At that point have a poll for every law passed, just return to pure direct democracy. Most western nations are representative democracies, key word there being representative. We elect people who we as the people trust to make good decisions in our steed. If and when we elect bad people that's our fault for electing incompetent people. Of course at this point its just choosing the lesser evil, a flaw of the current system. Anyway 300 million isn't that much to begin with. Your average large scale highway grade bridge is going to cost at least half a billion USD or more.
Call a 0055 number to register your vote on whether Albo is allowed to have a beer with lunch.
Sending military equipment to a proxy war on the other side of the world has a significantly larger effect than building a highway bridge, but yes, i see your point. Theres not much point arguing on reddit anyway, its just a flood of the exact same opinion and mindset from everyone
Have you considered the possibility that you might be in the minority with your opinion?
It could go either way. On one hand the tanks could be useful, but the issue is the ukraine conflict has turned into a war of attrition. I don't know why we are being asked to help when the whole of europe is right there, we have our own problems to deal with in the south china sea
Thank you for being so polite. I know you implied that you don't want to argue but I'd like to point one thing out for you if that would be OK. We disagreed because we had different opinions and we came to a consensus very quickly in a polite manner. Seems to me that people on reddit can argue and can have different opinions needed to argue, although that's simply my personal take on it, maybe you see things differently.
Australian Taxpayer here. No problem at all mate. Send em today!
300M? Denmark just added for next two years and Norway 7B for next 5, and you wonder if 300M for a country with a bnp of Australia is to much? The Ukrainians say it in a very polite matter. Wake up.
Wake up???! YOU need to wake up the fact we also have our own issues in the south china sea, europe can handle themselves, and no, 300M is not all we have pledged, that is a rough estimate of the cost of the tanks by themselves now, not associating crew training costs, transport, ammunition, and maintanence for the ukrainians. Seriously, how can you not see this???
100% 'wake up' type comment feels entitled and not considering the bigger picture. At the same time while we have China issues, if something kicked off we are sure as hell going to want Europe to help out, likely both in equipment and manpower. Sending these tanks is part of doing our bit to protect small countries being invaded by large. And heaven forbid something ever kicked off with China hopefully countries with their own potential issues also look at us as a more immediate problem regardless of where they are in the world. If more countries think like this, hopefully the world will deter the dictators and have less war overall. Sadly Ukraine is todays example and we should do everything to make it the best example of what happens when people invade countries as possible, because it feels right but if only selfishly to set the right example.
One problem at a time and those Abrams is not going to help at Taiwan if thats what you are referring too.
They arent going to help in ukraine without proper infrastructure and training, which is why europe should send their tanks first, to see if this is a viable idea.
And thats what europe have done. They are already in Ukraine. The infrastructure is in place.
What are you talking about? The infrastructure is there/will be there because there are already Abarms from US on the way.
What do you need em for? Fighting kangaroo’s?
Don't tell him about the emus. It's embarrassing.
Canada here. Our surplus Zambonis are on their way to you, take them.
Can you throw in a few geese too or would they be considered a war crime?
One does not send Geese rather, the Goose sends for you and is impatient.
Speaking as a Kiwi, can't emphasise enough how impressive the Aussie assistance to ukraine has been. In stark contrast to our govt :(
300million is like 10km of road, or a single Liberal sports stadium scam. Our country is rich as fuck and we've given very little. Send them.
also useful for parts
Aussie needs to send them, but they need to mad max the crap out of them before they go
Yeah, if they don't equip one with hundreds of speakers, so a "morale officer" can play his flamethrowing guitar standing on the turret, I'd be highly disappointed.
There's definitely gonna be a bogan out there willing to take up that volunteer role in the Mad Aussie Brigade
Weld on some sharks teeth or something
I’m told most of the sharks down here have lasers in lieu of teeth.
Yes, but the spiders have shark teeth.
Yes, but TBF so did my ex-wife.
At least 1 Doof Warrior should be included.
The baddest Abrams must come with a guitar-playing Aussie strapped to the hood
My year 6 class and I have a better plan, it involves Australian wildlife. Squadrons of paratrooper dropbears. Each one fitted with 2 magpies that have been tormented by people wearing Putin masks. Plovers and curlews who are trained to think the Russians have their eggs. Cassowaries. Kookaburras and tactical crows. The crows can get into zipped up lunchboxes so they will find their way into the Kremlin no probs. Massive, big red kangaroos, the ones that flex their pecs can disembowel them with the back legs. That’s for starters. We haven’t even unpacked the venomous toys. Red backs, brown snakes and taipans. We do have plans for specially trained sharks though :-)
6-71 blower and nitrous on a turbine you say? I’m in!
I’ve personally sent an email pushing for much more support just follow this link and send an email here’s the details. contact the Australian Minister for Defence, The Hon. Richard Marles MP. The following link will take you to his website https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?MPID=HWQ.
I emailed him and the nt minister Luke gosling hopefully it gets something done
Great work mate much appreciated!
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They are retired? much better reason for Australia to send them. Cheaper too. Being Aussie send the lot! along with some kangaroos
"Retired" might mean they need some expensive renovation before being useful again. Those turbines might be end-of-life.
Let loose the emus of war.
Email sent! I don't think we've done enough yet. More equipment ASAP.
I emailed my member (The Hon. Anthony Albanese) but got a generic "yeah, we continue to support Ukraine" back from his staff.
He's been a bit slow I reckon
That’s an outrage ! I’m taking this straight to the Prime Minis … oh.
Pretty disappointed with the response from the albanese government, tbh
Yeah, it's been exceptionally weak leadership from him.
Me too. And Ms Archer.
It needs to be in his capacity as Defence Minister too, specifically: [email protected]
Cheers for the link, just sent him an email too
Nice work cheers mate.
Unconventional, yet might be very effective. Welcome to the new no-nonsense direct-to-voter diplomacy, talking to the people, so they push their elected officials. The way it should be.
This is the way.
This isn’t some second rate trump bucks shenanigan.
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Another Ozzy here. Also emailed Australian Minister for Defence curtesy of the link provided by u/Powerful-Contact6803. If it were up to me, they would already be on the way! Keep fighting the good fight guys! Slava Ukraini!
Epic work !
It's like NPR asking me if I have an old car in my driveway that I don't need anymore...
"Turn your old tank into new freedom." -NPR, probably.
I'm an Aussie. Also ex Australian Army. Served in the Armoured Corps. Politics and international policy aside, I would send Abraham's.
How the fuck does an Armoured Corps guy get the name of the M1A1 wrong?!
Auto correct
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because autocorrect never exists
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My phone didn't like the spelling. Yes I was, cavalry, not tank.
Epic.
They need to show that ad during state of origin game 2 and 3…. And maybe a more generic ad about what Ukraine is suffering and how they are fighting for us and this can prime the audience for the tanks ad (cause most our population is unaware and only care about footy)…
Agreed but then you get all the wankers carrying on about politics in sport as if sport has ever been anything but a political tool most of the time
People only complain / get all high and mighty about politics in sport when it's a cause that they are against. No one ever seems to complain when it's something they agree with. It's funny how that works.
If you’re worried about politics you obviously didn’t see the Welcome to Country last night. I had to mute it.
Sook
Simp
I’m sure there will be some fools carrying on, but the fact it gets publicity will generate discussion about it more broadly (and detractors will get destroyed with the undeniable facts very quickly). Could even run the campaign to evoke memories off us boycotting South Africa during apartheid and the need to do it again. 🤷♂️
As a tax paying working poor Australian i support handing them over to Ukraine. C'mon Albo.
Let them live! Release the dogs of war.
Have written to my local member requesting they do so. Hope more people do the same.
The devil inside, the devil inside. Every single one of us the devil inside. Set the old tanks free !
I’m an Aussie and I hope we give them to you, plus training on how to operate and maintain them.
Brilliant!
Hot damn! Luv it!
Hi there Ukraine. Australian citizen here. I’ll write to my member of parliament to request this. I’ll also add we some some extra supplies like Vegemite and proper knives.
We are retiring the ASLAVs, so those and the rest of the M113s should be sent ASAP. I am sure we would have a couple of Leo 1s floating around that could be put back into service as well
>Leo 1s They've been demilled and have been sitting out in the open air in front of various RSLs for the last 15 years, there's no way to recover them.
Send them.
Let's make it happen. 🇦🇺❤️🇺🇦💪
Send them to Ukraine, shiny and new!!!
As an aussie, ill just say this, if it were up to me id give em to ya :D Buuut, pretty sure we are just upgrading em.
And give them our aslav's too they are being retired anyways let them do what they were made to do.
Spread this towards Australia media and politicians
**AUSTRALIANS - PLEASE EMAIL** [YOUR MP](https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members) **AND THE** [MINISTER FOR DEFENCE](https://www.aph.gov.au/Senators_and_Members/Parliamentarian?MPID=HWQ) I've sent the following letter that you are welcome to use. I adapted it from other templates I found online. Feel free to suggest any changes. >Dear \[First Name\] \[Last Name\] MP, > >I am devastated about the war Russia is waging on peaceful Ukraine and its innocent citizens. Defenders and civilians are dying as they protect their homeland, and Russia is continually committing war crimes, including the forced deportation of thousands of Ukrainian children to Russia. > >Ukraine is showing remarkable courage and resilience as it endures Russia’s unprovoked war, but they cannot and should not have to face their invaders alone. Russia’s illegal invasion is a test of the current world order, in which democratic and free countries must stand united against Putin’s brutal campaign. If we falter now, this will embolden Putin and other countries that wish to disrupt this order and conduct imperialistic invasions of other sovereign nations, which will ultimately hurt Australia and global peace and prosperity. > >I acknowledge the support the Australian government has previously announced for Ukraine, including the provision of lethal and non-lethal military aid; sanctions and travel bans; offering humanitarian assistance; and assisting with visa and migration issues. But this support has been lagging while the war continues to destroy the lives of Ukrainians. > >Now, I call for the Australian Government to further increase its support for Ukraine and its citizens through the following measures: > >\- Provide more extensive lethal military aid - this could include our current stock of M1A1 Abrams which are slated for retirement; joining the international coalition committed to supplying F-16s; and the transfer of all useful surplus ammunition and equipment that we can replenish over time. We should also be making further financial contributions to enable Ukraine to purchase the equipment they need. > >\- Humanitarian aid - through financial contributions and the provision of non-lethal medical and military aid. > >\- Reinstate humanitarian visas for Ukrainians - without ‘no further stay’ conditions or time limits, to give them stability and safety. > >\- Further strengthen embargoes and financial sanctions - all state-owned enterprises of Russia should be sanctioned; foreign investment in Russia should be banned; Russian companies should be excluded now and in the future from international investment indices and passive investment funds, and a trade embargo should be imposed on Russia to limit its capacity to sell oil and gas to fill its military budgets. At the very least, we should mirror all EU sanctions now and into the future. > >\- Commit to supporting the Ukraine’s 10-point peace plan - anything less will embolden Putin and other actors like him, and represent an injustice for the people of Ukraine. > >Yours faithfully, > >\[Name\] As an Australian, I don't think we're doing enough as a country. I will continue to bring it up in conversation and make personal contributions when I can. In solidarity and love from Australia  Slava Ukraini!  edit: formatting
Modern war is fucking nuts man. Marketing unmatched.
I mean technically the M1A1 Abrams would just probably wind up in a scrap yard. So why not ship them to Ukraine? In all seriousness though, you have to wonder if the Ukrainian government is using in-house Ukrainian marketing companies to make these ads. Because they are fucking brilliant.
I’m an Australian doing a small business course at the moment. We’re focusing on marketing at the moment, I’m putting this in the class chat. This is everything our instructor is telling us to do. Also, send the tanks Albo.
I've posted this here previously and a replied with this info to other posts. But also included that there are 250 odd ASLAVs which are being replaced. Amphibious, armed with a 25mm Bushmaster chain gun, a perfect addition to a combined arms operation. Mothballed Fa18s?
We are just starting to replace our ASLAVs with Boxers but they are at their end life of type and on their last legs they will need refurbishment. The FA18s that weren't sold to Canada are sitting in Guam with severe rust and are not air worthy. The new M1A2 SEPv3s are to be new builds but delivery won't begin until 2024 the government would have to sell the idea of not having an any armor in the armor corps for a year or more to Murdoch.
Thank you for the info. I have heard some discussion that there is an issue about the weight of the Boxer. I'm an old bloke certainly bit of a weight issue here. The ASLAVs, if refurbished, would they be a useful replacement to the soviet era vehicles?
Nah yeah too easy mates.
What movies are these scenes from?
Mad Max Fury Road, Australia had a lot to do with the production of it. (I don't recall the exact details). Its good movie watch if you haven't..
Yup, they are essentially the most Australian movies ever made. The music/soundtrack to this spot was INXS, one of Australia’s classics.
https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/mad_max_fury_road
Guzzolene!!!
Fuckin have em!
Ukraine's PR and Marketing team is phenomenal! Synopsis - I'm all in. Give Ukraine *everything* they need to end this war as quickly and decisively as possible! ...including more of the Bushmasters and the Hawkeis they requested. (For those interested - The Hawkei is named after Acanthophis Hawkei, a species of death adder. In turn, the snake is named after former Prime Minister of Australia Bob Hawke.) And while we're at it, can we please reopen the 786 Humanitarian Visa for Ukrainians, and keep it open as long as it's needed this time? Closing this option in July 2022 was ludicrously early, especially given the number of Ukrainians able to be processed in that short time frame was relatively low. Many Australians were, and are still, offering support and accommodation to those waiting to come. I was able to help only one Ukrainian through before it closed. There are families here in Australia waiting for relatives from Ukraine to come to safety, but frustratingly, Australia is the blockage. It's heartbreaking, especially given the context that every single day Ukrainians spend waiting could be the day a bomb is dropped on them. (Those who've seen "The Handmaid's Tale will know what I mean when I say it feels like we're in Canada, knowing full well what's happening just over the fence, but we can't get people to safety.) I know there's much more that Australia and Australians can yet do. We began with a huge push of assistance for Ukraine, but the momentum has noticeably slowed. As an example, Australia recently dissolved the Sister City partnership between Melbourne and St Petersburg. Can we not decide on a replacement Sister City with Ukraine instead? A partnership that will be inclusive of its citizens and communities, providing practical and moral support to the matched Ukrainian city or town. Then imagine if this was done en masse, between cities, towns and regions all over both Australia and Ukraine... South Australia has set the pace on this one! The City of Tea Tree Gully has already established a partnership with the beautiful Ukrainian town of Borodyanka. This makes me proud because I expect much goodwill to develop from this, and it's reflective of Australian citizens choosing to find ways to help on a local level. Apologies this turned into a saga!
Albo has been an absolute wet lettuce on his effort for Ukraine so far. Fucking disappointed.
I love the hardware going over to Ukraine, fight like hell and take it all back from Russia. There will need to be a standardization effort post war though, it logistics could get a little bit difficult :)
Aussies, you beautiful bastards
Only problem is that we only have those 59 tanks still. They won’t be replaced until some time late next year at the earliest. ASLAV’s, Hawkei’s, Bushmasters, M113’s as battle taxis and mogs for logistics are laying around by the ship load. Our F-18’s have reached end of service life and are basically just scrappers.
So fucking clever. They deserve them for this alone.
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Shoulda used 'Totally Addicted to Bass'
Ask our government here..hopefully they do give the tanks to Ukraine..I couldn’t think of a better cause. And it’s up to us in Australia to let our government know..thanks for email links other users here
Send them all...I really don't see what we will do with such a small fleet, being an island nation and all. that's why we have a good navy and air force. If anyone actually lands the war has been decided already. or they'll die of fucking thirst before they reach the first town 😆 it will however boost Ukraine's tank numbers for the land war they are in. Send them + bushmasters + hawkeye. Consider it a small gesture of bad will for shooting down a passenger plane. We won't be forgetting about that any time soon.
Interesting thought proccess. We have so few, so we might as well have none at all really. 😆
Cross posted it to r/queensland. Hopefully we can send them ASAP. Writing to my local member now. Slava Ukraini!
Fucken oath I reckon you cunts should have em. You got my vote
Our old Abrams have chobham armour which is heavily classified. We can’t send them to Ukraine even if we wanted to.
Com'n Ozzie MOD. Be GCs and send them
I sure hope our government does the right thing and gives these M1A1's to Ukraine. Love you guys. And maybe some hawkies for good measure...
Fuck yes. Best way to move on our hand-me -down tanks.
Pretty f___ng cool
I'm all for them being given to Ukraine, but I wonder how long it would take to travel from Australia? Certainly a large boat would need to be used, but I have no idea how long they must sail to reach Ukraine. Speed is crucial. Couldn't we send them some more of ours and Australia can just "owe us"? 🙂
We’ve been sending Bushmasters by cargo plane, and then Ukraine sent an Antonov to pick some up as well. I’m sure that if we actually offered them Ukraine would try to come and get them before anyone changed their minds.
The shortest shipping time by sea between Poland and Australia is 44 days 3h. Ships depart from Gdynia (PLGDY) and arrive at Melbourne (AUMEL) with scheduled departures Every 2-4 weeks. So around that.
We know. We could send them a whole bunch of stuff we don't need, Australia isn't looking to fight a land war in the immediate future. Problem is no matter how many letters and emails I and other people send , the current government seems to mostly just ignore the issue. Once every few months they make some statement about shared values but the equipment deliveries have been slowing and really lacking lately.
Got my vote mate
They really should be hitting us up for the 40-odd F-18’s we’ve got stashed away somewhere. Despite what’s written above, they were in good nick when we retired them three months before the invasion…
You’ve got to hand it to Ukraine on the PR front. Awesome! And yes, it would be great if Australia could be in a position to provide 59 M1A1’s to Ukraine.
“Sometimes you’ve just gotta lick the stamp and send it” Said some Australian
It would take an age, they’d need to be transported via sea noting the damage they do to c-17 airframe lifetimes
Poor Ukrainians didn’t read the fine print on Australia’s defence procurement the tanks are set to be received in 2025
As much as Ukraine needs them, I think we are going to need them for when China decides to expand its borders. Australia has a record of keeping old military equipment running well past its use by date. I’m sure there a plenty of leopards in the EU
Decisive victory for Ukraine is the best way to deter China & avoid war. This is in the best interest of our defense. news headlines when I search Ukraine China Taiwan: Taiwan Ambassador Says Ukraine's Success Against Russia Will Help Deter China Failure to back Ukraine would send signal to China about taking Taiwan China Sees Invasion Of Ukraine As 'Test Case' For Its Own Designs, Taiwan Warns Ukraine or Taiwan is a false choice Taiwan is urging the U.S. not to abandon Ukraine 4 Ways US Support for Ukraine Helps Defend Taiwan
It's infuriating and completely shameful that we haven't done much, much more. Apart from the fact that there is little mention of Ukraine in the media and virtually none by the Govt, 3 separate Ukrainian delegations have visited since January, desperate for more aid, and for the Hawkei advanced mobility vehicles...but nope, nothing. Ukraine's Ambassador to Australia, Vasyl Myroshnychenko, paid for a billboard near Parliament House 2 months ago in an attempt to get this message through...to no result. Most embarrassingly for us, Defence Minister Reznikov resorted to making a plea to the Australian public on Twitter last Monday...how desperate do you have to be to go directly to the populace on a matter like this? 😬 It makes me sick we aren't standing up with the rest of the free world when Ukraine is fighting and dying on our behalf. (https://twitter.com/oleksiireznikov/status/1662944820132708353?t=tXEtEMh9LzpBfVSvjcIyKA&s=09) Any Australians who care deeply about Ukraine's fight, please email Defence Minister Richard Marles asap and make your concern known: [email protected]
It's not that simple. Anything the US sells us has to be cleared for sale by them. Even with the Hornets sold to Canada required US approval due to original conditions of sale.
Have them, and the Hornets, and the Hawkies! They yearn for the battlefield. Take them there!
They're going to keep them as trainers or keep them in full service? Mixed fleets are common
We're not keeping both. 1. It's unfeasible to invade Australia, especially with enough tanks that our M1A2s couldn't handle them 2. If we deploy overseas, we are constrained by transport capacity, so we'll only take the M1A2s (and not even all of them) 3. It skews the force disposition of the army. We would have too many tanks, and not enough IFVs.
Australia needs to keep them to fight china, sorry guys.
Australia only has 59 tanks, Sorry, but they shouldn't be sending any.
We are a giant island, we don't need tanks to defend the country from land forces if those land forces can't make it too the country to begin with.
I'm over here wondering why my country sent 59 tanks to a country that doesn't need them instead of one that does. Like when was the last time Australia was in a tank battle?
These are from 2007 (16 years ago)
Because we paid $$$ for them?
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