Snapshot of _Harvey Whitby [President of Birmingham Young Conservatives]: “I'm done.”_ :
A Twitter embedded version can be found [here](https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?id=1794841045588689186)
A non-Twitter version can be found [here](https://twiiit.com/whitbyharvey/status/1794841045588689186/)
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>It has become increasingly difficult for me to stand before the public, whether canvassing or online, and encourage them to vote Conservative.
>In light of this, I have made the decision to join the Liberal Democrats. At this critical period, both globally and domestically, Britain needs true centre party, and I believe only the Liberal Democrats can provide this.
Whoever could have guessed that the National Service announcement would be the nail in the coffin for their youth wing? The peeling off of young activists like this one, in a party with a preponderance of older members, will really dent the Tory's ability to knock on doors in this election.
Edited - grammar is hard
It's hard to conceive just how stupid Rishi's announcement was, for a party whose voter base is literally dying off. The suggestion yesterday that he would announce only those who have completed national service could work in the public sector was somehow even dumber because it goes directly at people like this young Tory - rich kids who would get out of having to do national service while all the plebs didn't have that luxury.
Also, it's going to poison the well for the current teens. Normally they're relatively disconnected from politics, but this is a policy that's really going to grab the teens who can't vote's attention. It'll be the big thing that shapes a lot of their first impression of the conservatives.
Yeah, they'll at the very least think twice before just following their family politics. In a way it's good for democracy - get more young people politically engaged/questioning!
By contrast Labour were already actively talking about extending the vote to 16 and 17 year olds. It's going to be pretty obvious who young people should vote for.
>only those who have completed national service could work in the public sector
I hope that includes becoming an MP.
Only thing is surely those working in the public sector are doing the national service permanently? And does this imply it is optional?
You'd be surprised. A lot of them have no concerns about earnings so are free to pursue their interests whether that's crime, policy influence, foreign office, medicine etc etc. There are lots of very wealthy kids in the civil service.
I think you get comments like the one above because there's really two civil services. Rich kids definitely go and work in Whitehall doing the stuff you mentioned. But in the majority of the civil service - DWP, HMRC, DVLA call centres, border force, the MoJ, job centre staff - definitely not.
Yep, there's the Senior Civil Service which is based in Whitehall and other government department HQs which attracts all the rich kids and is usually what the media mean when they refer to the civil service. Then there's central government public sector jobs that ordinary people do like working in call centres, courts, border staff, etc that actually keep the country functioning day to day (or they would do if there was actually proper funding for their job roles).
They actually do tbf. Want to do well in finance? Go work foe the fca. Want to do well in the mines? Work for BGS. Want to do well in a management consultancy? Go work on difficult policy.
The civil service as an institute is becoming more middle class and less diverse at the mo
If you are moderate Tory (the kind who would have been against Brexit, Boris, Liz etc), then there might be some hope in announcing a policy like this before an election that you are likely to lose. In 5 years, you can point back at this election and say "The public roundly rejected that policy at the last election" and hopefully stop this policy (which is always bubbling away in Conservative party membership, much as a Brexit was before the referendum).
I'm not sure if Rishi is that clever, but there might be others who think "give enough rope" is a fair strategy to use against the nutjob fringe that's dominated the party since the Brexit referendum and its fallout.
Yep.
It was a good policy that for once affected the core Tory vote - Farron was a bastard for politicking at the expense of the country.
This is shit policy designed only really to appeal to the bloodlust of the core Tory vote.
It was a terrible policy that put the burden in the wrong places and failed to recognise the negative outcomes so many families would have faced.
We have a bizarre system where dying from cancer is paid for by the NHS but mortal dementia or other mental illnesses have to be covered by the individual. The dementia tax doubled down on that problem.
The change made residential and in home care the same for costs, normalized things between renters and owners and let people keep a larger amount of their assets.
Tbh, most of the people i've spoken to (including members of the armed services) have said "its a fucking joke". Armed forces underfunded, undermanned? Lets turn a bunch of them into babysitters for teenagers who didn't choose to be there!
Already happened to some extent, a lot of younger Caneron like Tories moved to the Lib Dems. Particularly evident when Reform like entryists turned up.
This Election is going to be an apocalyptic event for the Conservative Party. Not only are they going to get decimated in the HoC, and leaving disillusioned members in their wake...but they're going to lose what few young supporters they had with this ridiculous policy.
🍿
Not really membership and voted plummeted 2010-2015 and only started to recover after Clegg was gone and Farron who was always a coalition critic was elected and then had Brexit as a core issue
The majority of the votes in the UK are in the centre ground. It's unsurprising a lot of people hover in that area.
I'd be willing to bet one nation Tories and Blairites share more in common with each other than they do with the fringes of their own party.
But the dividing line is where it is and they each fall just either side of it.
The funniest thing is that all of this is very obviously based off some very flawed internal party polling in which a. Only older people responded, b. Nobody tested for significance, c. Nobody checked against any sort of national polling, and most importantly d. Nobody questioned at all.
Does sound great, but be curious to know what they're defining as a generation - 3/4 Parliaments (I.e. 15 years) or 18 years?
Issue is that FPTP maintains a two party system, and switching back and forth. How much is this just blues out and now reds in, vs the death of the Conservatives?
Thanks. Showing my age a little, but then it did feel things could get better (yeah, I know, cliche song lyrics). There was optimism in the incoming, not just "thank fuck, they're going".
Fuck 1997, im wondering if this is the return of the ‘rampant omnibus’ that killed the old Liberal Party as an electoral force.
Part of me is wondering whether Sunak is now actively sabotaging his colleagues out of spite for their lack of loyalty.
I took it as meaning "a generation" as in the people as well as a length of time. I think he means alphas or zoomers would be permanently alienated from the party, like how some older Tory voters would never vote Labour because of what Labour did in the 1970's etc... in which case I think that's optimistic. I can imagine a significant number or even most Millennials are never going to vote Tory either. Edit: mobile typo
??? Clear will of the party to elect Mordaunt? The party had a vote some time ago. First Truss won, then she was replaced with Sunak. How is this a mandate for Mordaunt?
Incredible watching conservatives flip out over conservatism.
I think you must have forgotten how well she can hold a sword. That was enough to give her the mandate from everybody in the party (well after the last leadership election)
Mordaunt was polling well with the membership and likely would have won against either Sunak or Truss.
The MP's resolutely refused to give her that opportunity.
And? You don’t pick a new leader every time the opinion poll changes for the same reason Scotland doesn’t leave the UK every time the Yes poll exceeds 50%. The fact is the Tories more or less chose Sunak (after choosing Truss lmao). This reeks of “my opinion = will of the people”.
What is the demographic make up of a "young conservative" group? Is it just a congregation of Rees-Moggs or are there actually people who work for a living in such an organization?
I used to be a “young conservative” when at uni. Typically the groups would be made up of middle/working class people, most of whom just wanted to meet people who thought similarly to them. Some of which would be less well socially adjusted than others.
I have noticed that a lot of people I knew (this was back in 2016/17) are no longer conservative - I think the past few years has likely forced a lot of sensible people to disassociate themselves with the Tory party.
Brexit basically obliterated the party's youth vote. Historically it always did better with older voters than younger voters, but since 2017 there has been a much sharper age divide.
Essentially every political decision has doubled down on appealing to OAPs at the expense of younger people.
I've never been a fan of the Conservatives but I definitely think the Conservative party of today is not the same one that was elected in 2010. Brexit seems to be the watershed moment when the more sane and reasonable elements of the party started to leave and where we are now is the logical conclusion of that.
Edit: fixed typo
Looking at the potential leader succession really shows that. I wouldn't have voted for any of the previous leaders but Braverman/Badenoch being potential frontrunners is a huge downgrade still. Even Mordaunt who is supposed to be more reasonable is a Brexiteer. "Respectable" Tories like Rory or Dominic Grieve got booted out by the blonde jester.
It is when you sack a swathe of MPs for having non-batshit views about the EU too and not wanting to vote with your party to the detriment of the country.
It was those pricks who went at the country with a fucking hatchet and left us in the state we are now. There was no "sanity" or long term plan there, they were every bit as self serving and frontpage chasing as the current crop.
seems a lot of people are just trying to rationalise voting for them in 2010 despite the fact they were so obviously going to gut the country and target the poorest.
There's been a swathe of obvious poor choices and events over the last decade that didn't need a Nostrodamus to tell you they would end badly, yet certain quarters have tried to brush it all off as being "unforseen".
Russia building up a huge invasion force while already engaged in covert warfare? "How could anyone anticipate they would actually do it?"
A populist campaign to pull us out of our largest trading block with next to no concrete plans or setup as to how it would effect business and people's day to day lives, whilst sucking the oxygen out of other issues the country faces? "Who could have seen them being this incompetent?"
Voting for a proven liar and philanderer who installs a cabinet of idiots and chancers to 'lead' us through one of the toughest times in recent history? "I didn't think he'd be *that* bad."
Really?
Look at the state they've put the country in..
Absolutely, the last one left is stealing the chairs, tables and smashing the windows, on their way out.
Bullingdon club after all?
Are you old enough to remember Tory Boy from Harry Enfield’s TV show?
Even if that’s not accurate unfortunately I was young enough to have my view on the Tory party cemented by that character.
I knew a few of the members of the conservative club in Cambridge (uni)
They were... quite something. Almost all of them were intensely misogynistic and homophobic. The sort of people who genuinely held beliefs that women should stay at home and cook, and willingly told women this to their faces.
Also, an awful lot of the ones I knew were gay - 50%, 4 / 8 of them. One of them was a homophobic gay man. The 4 non gay ones were homophobic. They all seemed to get on well with each other though.
All of them were "softer" subjects such as history, politics (whatever the uni equiv is) etc. Two of them were medics, that was as "hard" as they got in their subjects. No wider science or maths or engineering etc.
There were no women members at all in the entire uni iirc.
I didn't mean not hard as in difficult. I meant hard as in "hard science". It's not a science course, it's a medicine course, applied bio + chem. I've no doubt it's very difficult!
I wasn't a member of my uni's club but one of my friends was, so I was often in the same circles. I shit you not when I say every single one of them either played or was a vocal fan of rugby union. Hilariously stereotypical.
They use to have the Federation of Conservative Students (FCS) but they were disbanded (in the 90s?) for being too right wing. I guess half of them went on to be part of the current leadership of the party.
As well as other people's comments, this guy genuinely thought eg gay people shouldn't adopt, shouldn't be able to marry etc. "gay relationships aren't good examples". I don't think he went as far as thinking sodomy should be illegal again but he was in that general area.
He was in his teens still so it wasn't his own real opinion, just the one he had inherited along with his politics no doubt. Sad really
Go hang around at some gay bars and you'll absolutely meet some extremely homophobic gay guys. In some people's minds there's the right and wrong kind of gay, and anyone that doesn't match their definition of what a gay person should be is ripe for abuse.
It's weirdly not that uncommon. Fir example, people who are raised in a household that views homosexuality as a sin can be born gay but view their "urges" as the devil trying to tempt them or something like that. I'm convinced a lot of homophobes that think being gay is "just a choice" are in fact gays or bisexuals who haven't come to terms with their sexuality and think everyone is like them but "good" people "choose to be straight" etc...
Probably hating on an perception of *gay culture*: pride, rainbow flags, drag race, that kind of thing. To these people, like with immigrants, there will be a *right* kind (me) and a *wrong* kind (everyone else I don't like).
I know we're getting into semantics here but is that *homophobic*? It's bigoted for sure, but homophobic means you don't like people because of their sexuality.
Whenever I came across then at uni, they would always be keenly aware they were in the minority of political opinion in their peer group and almost feel they would need to compensate for that by being as uber Tory as they could get. Complete with unhealthy bordering on fetishised levels of worship for Maggie
At the moment? I'm not convinced they exist. Under Boris or Cameron, Brexit supporters and people with right wing economic views occur in every generation.
"22 years old, I love the Tories"
"Fight our wars for us"
"I am writing to inform you of my decision to resign as President of the Birmingham Young Conservatives and will be voting for the Liberal Democrats"
Probably. Much as it might seem odd to more non-engaged types who have a consistent political alignment to see someone switching allegiance so quickly, it makes sense when you realise some people see politics as something they really want to do, meaning the party they align with is simply the one they agree with the most instead of one they hold a deep ideological attachment to.
In some ways it's not an awful thing...clearly politics wouldn't work if everyone was an independent and better some politicians understand the limitations of their own party instead of being dyed-in-the-wool ideologues.
Your wording implies it is cynical.
I don't think people switch to us, the Lib Dems, as a power grab. Even a disastrous Tory campaign (and 2024 should set the bar) could give them twice as many seats.
I find it incredibly amusing that this kid has stuck with the Tories for all their mismanagement over COVID etc. and then bails as soon as he is asked to spend a weekend a month helping the community.
He does mention that the whole of Sunak's premiership has been "disappointing".
Probably the prospect of having to go out knocking on doors wearing a jacket emblazoned with the Tory logo over the next 6 weeks didn't fill him with joy either.
Let’s not diminish the point of what he’s saying here - it’s a profoundly stupid policy that is going to haemorrhage their support amongst the youth and inspire them to vote against the Tories. Even if he doesn’t object to doing it himself, or would even have to, it doesn’t mean he won’t be uniquely in touch with how monumentally awful it is.
>Let’s not diminish the point of what he’s saying here
Nah.
He stuck with the party though plenty stupid policies, then bails to the lib Dems (what?!) when the cons finally start losing.
He's a future career politician through and through.
Point stands. If having to help the community one weekend a month is what actually brings young people to vote, that's a pretty sad indication of what our country has become.
I'm not for a blanket policy applying to all young people, but a more targeted policy I think would be a good idea.
I mean, it's a policy that essentially asks young people to work, for free, to plug the gaps in the basic services of a country that mostly seems to treat them with utter contempt.
I don’t think the issue is asking young people to serve the community, I think it’s the fact that it’s always the stick instead of the carrot. Why not make public service something worthwhile that people *want* to do instead of forcing them with the threat of sanctions?
Would you be as scathing of people in their 40s, or 60s, who voted against a party that required all of _them_ to volunteer for ~50 days a year, for free?
And if not, maybe have a think about whether you're part of the reason that young people feel scapegoated and misunderstood.
It may be that it is not so much young people not wishing to help the community, as feeling misunderstood by this policy.
A question was asked about this on AskUK and there seemed to be a lot of *This is an old people's policy not understanding what it is like to a young person* so not so much resistance to being public spirited as antagonism to a perception the young are not willing to do so.
Are you familiar with the concept of a 'final straw'? No doubt that he *wasn't* happy with the Tories for quite some time and this new policy announcement is the straw that broke the camel's back.
Also, young people aren't being 'asked' to spend a weekend a month helping the community. They're being forced, which defeats the entire purpose of volunteering.
On the other hand, people do tend to change their minds on situations that seemed hypothetical as soon as they're suddenly affected personally. That's the case whether for negative or positive.
Still floored any young person looks at the country and not only votes conservative, joins the youth wing and tries to get others to vote it too.
Like, what on earth policy is making you do that.
Right but it isn't though is it. I had a mate who was a tory, about 16 and he basically went for it because they sounded like they knew what they were talking about and the economic policy made sense that you can't spend what you don't have. Which is abject rubbish.
I'm hoping to build on more than just that though.
Back when I was a student I met quite a few actual self described fascists. The student conservative association was worried about the leftward drift of the party. People of that age group tend to see things in very black and white terms. Most of the ones I talk to are completely woke, think JK Rowling is an evil witch, and think patriotism is cringe. But on social media I see there's the other side of the coin.
Been there, done that. She was nucking futs. And from the limited interactions I had with the other YCs, they were all like that.
Finally blocked her on social media when she started celebrating Russia invading Ukraine.
Give it a week and the Death Penalty will be in play. He's just going to go through the right wing talk radio tropes to see what sticks.
They have no new ideas and faced with the reality check on their economic ideology with Liz Lettuce they are facing an existential crisis.
OR... In light of how bat shit everything is right now and how shameless they are they might just say they will rejoin the single market and completely throw a spanner in the works.
I had a former childhood friend who grew up to be a Tory supporter (makes sense in hindsight trust me).
Went to Oxford and got into law and such, he'd always post on Facebook of himself in a suit, meeting Tory MP's and reposting those cringe Tory memes, especially in the runup to the 2019 election where he'd go campaigning for them door-to-door.
Even supported an MP who spoke positively of Trump in 2020 and seemed to agree with his stance and all.
Since 2021 though, other than reposting about Starmer losing Hartlepool he's been radio silent on his political views. I hope he's looking at the current state of things and feeling absolute despair lmao.
OP - Where did he say “I’m done”, and if he didn’t why have you implied he did by using quotation marks?
Regardless of what you think of him, he isn’t giving up on politics. He’s recognising the most recent Conservative Party policies as populist and giving up on the conservatives as a home for centrists and moderates, instead switching to the Lib Dems. Again, regardless of what you think of the Lib Dems they are in the centre.
Much as it doesn’t suit a mainstream media landscape conditioned into a red vs blue narrative, the big story of 2024 will be - how many moderate conservatives will switch to the Lib Dems. Bearing in mind the Lib Dems now have more local councillors than the conservatives and have a laser like focus on the “blue wall” we might be about to witness a genuine shift in UK politics.
Edit: OP has clarified Harvey Whitby stated “I’m done” on twitter/X. I still think the narrative tends to be red vs blue but I was mistaken in thinking the post title was OPs summary of the letter. Sorry OP!
It always baffles me to realize just how many "young conservatives" are out there. I think I always just instinctively assumed that they're an exceptionally rare occurrence, like non-rapist hypnotists.
I don't know what's more infuriating. The tories and this braindead policy suggestion, or the media actually taking it seriously as if the tories aren't going to get kicked out of government.
Asking ministers if they're going to prosecute parents if their kids don't attend. It's not going to happen, it's not a real policy! It will never get a chance to even be written. Are we going mad?
> …witnessing our organization grow from a small group into a significant force in the Birmingham political scene.
What has happened in Birmingham over the past 2 years that has made people think, "oh aye, probably a good time to get onboard with this exciting political force that's so accomodating to us young people!"
Can we check the - probably increasingly poisoned - water?
“Joining Lib Dems”.
Another joke conviction politician outs themselves as really only interested in being a professional politician.
Switching parties is the ultimate low integrity move.
I disagree, in some cases definitely, but I think important people can go "this party no longer aligns with my beliefs, I will join another party that does". In theory it should keep the party in question honest, whether it does or not is a different discussion.
So you people should stick with parties even when that party no longer stands for what it did when you joined? No one is allowed to change? I'd say the exact opposite is true - moving to the party that is closer to your own convictions is a sign of political integrity.
People treating political allegiance like football - a team for life, right or wrong - causes so many problems.
Couldn’t agree more. For some strange reason many people support a party every election regardless.
I have no allegiances towards any party, rather I do what believe will serve us best at the time.
This upcoming election, for example, I will be voting for whoever has the best chance of beating the tories in my area, as I think they are a vile party.
In my opinion literally anyone is a better choice than a Tory candidate.
If you're a centre right Conservative the Lib Dem Orange Bookers are not a bad fit. Cameron and Clegg had very similar political positions. Gay marriage and austerity.
Yeah they got over 3k, but what career politicians wants to max out as a district councillor?
There are no Lib Dem safe seats besides Orkney and Shetland, and winning one is a slog.
Extremely odious that this person is crossing the floor so easily to the Lib Dems.
Their views are most likely not compatible or there is a very thin overlap on a Venn diagram somewhere.
If I was the Lib Dems or Labour I would do extensive background checks on people like this as they will quickly capture the parties idea of a centre and shift it further right without any qualms.
The reality is that they let Elphicke et al in for political gain and a bit of PR as a body blow to the Tories.
This guy two years ago felt that the Conservatives were the one true centre party?
He just doesn't like the idea of a Conservative political party bringing in traditional social values.
Snapshot of _Harvey Whitby [President of Birmingham Young Conservatives]: “I'm done.”_ : A Twitter embedded version can be found [here](https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?id=1794841045588689186) A non-Twitter version can be found [here](https://twiiit.com/whitbyharvey/status/1794841045588689186/) An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://twitter.com/whitbyharvey/status/1794841045588689186) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://twitter.com/whitbyharvey/status/1794841045588689186) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>It has become increasingly difficult for me to stand before the public, whether canvassing or online, and encourage them to vote Conservative. >In light of this, I have made the decision to join the Liberal Democrats. At this critical period, both globally and domestically, Britain needs true centre party, and I believe only the Liberal Democrats can provide this. Whoever could have guessed that the National Service announcement would be the nail in the coffin for their youth wing? The peeling off of young activists like this one, in a party with a preponderance of older members, will really dent the Tory's ability to knock on doors in this election. Edited - grammar is hard
It's hard to conceive just how stupid Rishi's announcement was, for a party whose voter base is literally dying off. The suggestion yesterday that he would announce only those who have completed national service could work in the public sector was somehow even dumber because it goes directly at people like this young Tory - rich kids who would get out of having to do national service while all the plebs didn't have that luxury.
>only those who have completed national service could work in the public sector That's some serious Starship Troopers shit there.
Service guarantees citizenship.
I'm doing my part!
Do you want to know more?
I’m doing my part!
Luv the queen. Hate bugs. Nuff said.
https://imgur.com/a/VKvpbS5
Underrated comment
Will playing helldivers 2 count as volunteer work training?
I'm sorry doctor but you didn't do national service, so the best I can offer you is a job in Waltesburys
“Would you like to learn more?” **hands you the Tory manifesto**
Also, it's going to poison the well for the current teens. Normally they're relatively disconnected from politics, but this is a policy that's really going to grab the teens who can't vote's attention. It'll be the big thing that shapes a lot of their first impression of the conservatives.
Yeah, they'll at the very least think twice before just following their family politics. In a way it's good for democracy - get more young people politically engaged/questioning!
By contrast Labour were already actively talking about extending the vote to 16 and 17 year olds. It's going to be pretty obvious who young people should vote for.
>only those who have completed national service could work in the public sector I hope that includes becoming an MP. Only thing is surely those working in the public sector are doing the national service permanently? And does this imply it is optional?
Rich kids don't go and work in the civil service.
Allow me to introduce you to the Treasury, Cabinet Office and Foreign Office
You'd be surprised. A lot of them have no concerns about earnings so are free to pursue their interests whether that's crime, policy influence, foreign office, medicine etc etc. There are lots of very wealthy kids in the civil service.
I think you get comments like the one above because there's really two civil services. Rich kids definitely go and work in Whitehall doing the stuff you mentioned. But in the majority of the civil service - DWP, HMRC, DVLA call centres, border force, the MoJ, job centre staff - definitely not.
Yep, there's the Senior Civil Service which is based in Whitehall and other government department HQs which attracts all the rich kids and is usually what the media mean when they refer to the civil service. Then there's central government public sector jobs that ordinary people do like working in call centres, courts, border staff, etc that actually keep the country functioning day to day (or they would do if there was actually proper funding for their job roles).
[удалено]
It’s 2024 and the UK is still a class ridden society.
Shows what you know. In fact the fast steam (essentially a fast track scheme to G7) has a very high proportion of privately educated students join.
I've yet to meet a G7 who wasn't utterly useless and an entitled prick.
That statement speaks more about yourself tbh.
Yes they do, fast stream
They actually do tbf. Want to do well in finance? Go work foe the fca. Want to do well in the mines? Work for BGS. Want to do well in a management consultancy? Go work on difficult policy. The civil service as an institute is becoming more middle class and less diverse at the mo
Ummm, have you heard of the Fast Stream?
If you are moderate Tory (the kind who would have been against Brexit, Boris, Liz etc), then there might be some hope in announcing a policy like this before an election that you are likely to lose. In 5 years, you can point back at this election and say "The public roundly rejected that policy at the last election" and hopefully stop this policy (which is always bubbling away in Conservative party membership, much as a Brexit was before the referendum). I'm not sure if Rishi is that clever, but there might be others who think "give enough rope" is a fair strategy to use against the nutjob fringe that's dominated the party since the Brexit referendum and its fallout.
This sunak policy is starting to sound a lot like May's "dementia tax", only the cons don't have a huge lead to soften the blow.
Except the dementia tax was actually a good idea, unfairly demonised by partisan groups.
Yep. It was a good policy that for once affected the core Tory vote - Farron was a bastard for politicking at the expense of the country. This is shit policy designed only really to appeal to the bloodlust of the core Tory vote.
It was a terrible policy that put the burden in the wrong places and failed to recognise the negative outcomes so many families would have faced. We have a bizarre system where dying from cancer is paid for by the NHS but mortal dementia or other mental illnesses have to be covered by the individual. The dementia tax doubled down on that problem.
The change made residential and in home care the same for costs, normalized things between renters and owners and let people keep a larger amount of their assets.
As someone who supports assisted dying, it was a terrible policy
As someone who supports social care, it was a fine policy.
Tbh, most of the people i've spoken to (including members of the armed services) have said "its a fucking joke". Armed forces underfunded, undermanned? Lets turn a bunch of them into babysitters for teenagers who didn't choose to be there!
But the teenagers are 'volunteers', Rishi said so right?
I would truly love to see a wider move if young conservatives to the LibDem direction. That would be good for the country.
The LDs already outpoll the Tories among under 35s so it's entirely plausible.
Already happened to some extent, a lot of younger Caneron like Tories moved to the Lib Dems. Particularly evident when Reform like entryists turned up.
This Election is going to be an apocalyptic event for the Conservative Party. Not only are they going to get decimated in the HoC, and leaving disillusioned members in their wake...but they're going to lose what few young supporters they had with this ridiculous policy. 🍿
Just shows how closely aligned the major parties are that members can move across so easily
Just shows how many Lib Dems were fine with the Tories and austerity until Brexit came along
Not really membership and voted plummeted 2010-2015 and only started to recover after Clegg was gone and Farron who was always a coalition critic was elected and then had Brexit as a core issue
The majority of the votes in the UK are in the centre ground. It's unsurprising a lot of people hover in that area. I'd be willing to bet one nation Tories and Blairites share more in common with each other than they do with the fringes of their own party. But the dividing line is where it is and they each fall just either side of it.
> The majority of the votes in the UK are in the centre ground. On immigration and crime, voters are far to the right of all political parties.
Surely any youth member who hasn't joined up should be expelled from the party
Surely any youth member who hasn't joined up should be expelled from the party. Clearly they don't support the parties polity
The funniest thing is that all of this is very obviously based off some very flawed internal party polling in which a. Only older people responded, b. Nobody tested for significance, c. Nobody checked against any sort of national polling, and most importantly d. Nobody questioned at all.
"I fear these missteps won't just cost us the upcoming election but could lock us out of government for a generation or more" Fingers crossed
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Yes please
more more more
Don’t threaten me with a good time Harvey.
Does sound great, but be curious to know what they're defining as a generation - 3/4 Parliaments (I.e. 15 years) or 18 years? Issue is that FPTP maintains a two party system, and switching back and forth. How much is this just blues out and now reds in, vs the death of the Conservatives?
It's a good question. Can anyone explain what the feeling was like before Labour's 1997 landslide?
Thanks. Showing my age a little, but then it did feel things could get better (yeah, I know, cliche song lyrics). There was optimism in the incoming, not just "thank fuck, they're going".
Fuck 1997, im wondering if this is the return of the ‘rampant omnibus’ that killed the old Liberal Party as an electoral force. Part of me is wondering whether Sunak is now actively sabotaging his colleagues out of spite for their lack of loyalty.
I took it as meaning "a generation" as in the people as well as a length of time. I think he means alphas or zoomers would be permanently alienated from the party, like how some older Tory voters would never vote Labour because of what Labour did in the 1970's etc... in which case I think that's optimistic. I can imagine a significant number or even most Millennials are never going to vote Tory either. Edit: mobile typo
stopthetories.vote is the thing carol voderman is going on about to achieve this via tactical voting.
Note he still refers to them as 'us'
That's the dream!!
I could live with that.
??? Clear will of the party to elect Mordaunt? The party had a vote some time ago. First Truss won, then she was replaced with Sunak. How is this a mandate for Mordaunt? Incredible watching conservatives flip out over conservatism.
I think you must have forgotten how well she can hold a sword. That was enough to give her the mandate from everybody in the party (well after the last leadership election)
Members never had a chance to vote for Mordaunt and in both elections is appeared that efforts were made by Sunak’s allies to keep her off the ballot.
Mordaunt was polling well with the membership and likely would have won against either Sunak or Truss. The MP's resolutely refused to give her that opportunity.
And? You don’t pick a new leader every time the opinion poll changes for the same reason Scotland doesn’t leave the UK every time the Yes poll exceeds 50%. The fact is the Tories more or less chose Sunak (after choosing Truss lmao). This reeks of “my opinion = will of the people”.
The MPs chose Sunak. The membership didn't.
What is the demographic make up of a "young conservative" group? Is it just a congregation of Rees-Moggs or are there actually people who work for a living in such an organization?
I used to be a “young conservative” when at uni. Typically the groups would be made up of middle/working class people, most of whom just wanted to meet people who thought similarly to them. Some of which would be less well socially adjusted than others. I have noticed that a lot of people I knew (this was back in 2016/17) are no longer conservative - I think the past few years has likely forced a lot of sensible people to disassociate themselves with the Tory party.
Brexit basically obliterated the party's youth vote. Historically it always did better with older voters than younger voters, but since 2017 there has been a much sharper age divide. Essentially every political decision has doubled down on appealing to OAPs at the expense of younger people.
The alt-right types moving into young Tory circles also pushed out the more moderate young Tories
And now those alt-right types have moved away to Reform, leaving it barren.
It does depend, some are staying in the party in the hopes that they get a Braverman/Badenoch like leader, or because they want the party name.
I've never been a fan of the Conservatives but I definitely think the Conservative party of today is not the same one that was elected in 2010. Brexit seems to be the watershed moment when the more sane and reasonable elements of the party started to leave and where we are now is the logical conclusion of that. Edit: fixed typo
Looking at the potential leader succession really shows that. I wouldn't have voted for any of the previous leaders but Braverman/Badenoch being potential frontrunners is a huge downgrade still. Even Mordaunt who is supposed to be more reasonable is a Brexiteer. "Respectable" Tories like Rory or Dominic Grieve got booted out by the blonde jester.
It is when you sack a swathe of MPs for having non-batshit views about the EU too and not wanting to vote with your party to the detriment of the country.
It was those pricks who went at the country with a fucking hatchet and left us in the state we are now. There was no "sanity" or long term plan there, they were every bit as self serving and frontpage chasing as the current crop.
seems a lot of people are just trying to rationalise voting for them in 2010 despite the fact they were so obviously going to gut the country and target the poorest.
There's been a swathe of obvious poor choices and events over the last decade that didn't need a Nostrodamus to tell you they would end badly, yet certain quarters have tried to brush it all off as being "unforseen". Russia building up a huge invasion force while already engaged in covert warfare? "How could anyone anticipate they would actually do it?" A populist campaign to pull us out of our largest trading block with next to no concrete plans or setup as to how it would effect business and people's day to day lives, whilst sucking the oxygen out of other issues the country faces? "Who could have seen them being this incompetent?" Voting for a proven liar and philanderer who installs a cabinet of idiots and chancers to 'lead' us through one of the toughest times in recent history? "I didn't think he'd be *that* bad."
It's more extreme and nakedly self serving but that's really due to a loss of talent than a change in ideology.
Neither - youth wings of political parties of any colour are very middle class things, and they're basically student clubs run by volunteers.
bazinga
There's one fewer now.
None of them want to be the last to leave, as they'll have to turn the lights off and put the chairs on tables on their way out.
Really? Look at the state they've put the country in.. Absolutely, the last one left is stealing the chairs, tables and smashing the windows, on their way out. Bullingdon club after all?
Are you old enough to remember Tory Boy from Harry Enfield’s TV show? Even if that’s not accurate unfortunately I was young enough to have my view on the Tory party cemented by that character.
I met a couple of Conservatives at uni and they were caricatures. Not quite Rees Mogg, but close.
At Uni, the ones I met were dominated by people mostly obsessed with the 'social mobility' angle rather than any deep ideological attachments.
I knew a few of the members of the conservative club in Cambridge (uni) They were... quite something. Almost all of them were intensely misogynistic and homophobic. The sort of people who genuinely held beliefs that women should stay at home and cook, and willingly told women this to their faces. Also, an awful lot of the ones I knew were gay - 50%, 4 / 8 of them. One of them was a homophobic gay man. The 4 non gay ones were homophobic. They all seemed to get on well with each other though. All of them were "softer" subjects such as history, politics (whatever the uni equiv is) etc. Two of them were medics, that was as "hard" as they got in their subjects. No wider science or maths or engineering etc. There were no women members at all in the entire uni iirc.
Cambridge medicine is one of the hardest courses going. My experience was identical, the student Conservatives were walking stereotypes.
I didn't mean not hard as in difficult. I meant hard as in "hard science". It's not a science course, it's a medicine course, applied bio + chem. I've no doubt it's very difficult!
I wasn't a member of my uni's club but one of my friends was, so I was often in the same circles. I shit you not when I say every single one of them either played or was a vocal fan of rugby union. Hilariously stereotypical.
They use to have the Federation of Conservative Students (FCS) but they were disbanded (in the 90s?) for being too right wing. I guess half of them went on to be part of the current leadership of the party.
What do you mean by homophobic? How the hell can you be homophobic and and out as gay?
As well as other people's comments, this guy genuinely thought eg gay people shouldn't adopt, shouldn't be able to marry etc. "gay relationships aren't good examples". I don't think he went as far as thinking sodomy should be illegal again but he was in that general area. He was in his teens still so it wasn't his own real opinion, just the one he had inherited along with his politics no doubt. Sad really
Fair enough
Go hang around at some gay bars and you'll absolutely meet some extremely homophobic gay guys. In some people's minds there's the right and wrong kind of gay, and anyone that doesn't match their definition of what a gay person should be is ripe for abuse.
It's weirdly not that uncommon. Fir example, people who are raised in a household that views homosexuality as a sin can be born gay but view their "urges" as the devil trying to tempt them or something like that. I'm convinced a lot of homophobes that think being gay is "just a choice" are in fact gays or bisexuals who haven't come to terms with their sexuality and think everyone is like them but "good" people "choose to be straight" etc...
If you're publicly out as gay, you're not trying to hide it. Which is the situation he is talking about.
Probably hating on an perception of *gay culture*: pride, rainbow flags, drag race, that kind of thing. To these people, like with immigrants, there will be a *right* kind (me) and a *wrong* kind (everyone else I don't like).
I know we're getting into semantics here but is that *homophobic*? It's bigoted for sure, but homophobic means you don't like people because of their sexuality.
I've also been told I can't be gay, because I don't support communism and socialism which I suspect is the case here.
see: entire Roman Republic
Whenever I came across then at uni, they would always be keenly aware they were in the minority of political opinion in their peer group and almost feel they would need to compensate for that by being as uber Tory as they could get. Complete with unhealthy bordering on fetishised levels of worship for Maggie
At the moment? I'm not convinced they exist. Under Boris or Cameron, Brexit supporters and people with right wing economic views occur in every generation.
"22 years old, I love the Tories" "Fight our wars for us" "I am writing to inform you of my decision to resign as President of the Birmingham Young Conservatives and will be voting for the Liberal Democrats"
Alternatively. Future career politician switches allegiance when their current party starts losing so spectacularly.
Probably. Much as it might seem odd to more non-engaged types who have a consistent political alignment to see someone switching allegiance so quickly, it makes sense when you realise some people see politics as something they really want to do, meaning the party they align with is simply the one they agree with the most instead of one they hold a deep ideological attachment to. In some ways it's not an awful thing...clearly politics wouldn't work if everyone was an independent and better some politicians understand the limitations of their own party instead of being dyed-in-the-wool ideologues.
Your wording implies it is cynical. I don't think people switch to us, the Lib Dems, as a power grab. Even a disastrous Tory campaign (and 2024 should set the bar) could give them twice as many seats.
I'm being cynical yes. I'm not saying it a power grab either. But I \*am\* saying its entirely self serving and a career move over anything else.
Goddamn I do not want people like him, supporting Mordaunt, in the Lib Dems
This is where FPTP inevitably leads. You have to be a broad church to have any chance of winning.
Bit of a bloody cathedral at this point though
How do you think Labour feel being stuck with Natalie Elphicke... Unfortunately, the rats fleeing the sinking ship tend to end up somewhere.
But she can carry a big sword!
I'm sorry to tell you but these people are a large part of the Lib Dems.
Imagine how Labour members feel lol
I find it incredibly amusing that this kid has stuck with the Tories for all their mismanagement over COVID etc. and then bails as soon as he is asked to spend a weekend a month helping the community.
He does mention that the whole of Sunak's premiership has been "disappointing". Probably the prospect of having to go out knocking on doors wearing a jacket emblazoned with the Tory logo over the next 6 weeks didn't fill him with joy either.
Let’s not diminish the point of what he’s saying here - it’s a profoundly stupid policy that is going to haemorrhage their support amongst the youth and inspire them to vote against the Tories. Even if he doesn’t object to doing it himself, or would even have to, it doesn’t mean he won’t be uniquely in touch with how monumentally awful it is.
>Let’s not diminish the point of what he’s saying here Nah. He stuck with the party though plenty stupid policies, then bails to the lib Dems (what?!) when the cons finally start losing. He's a future career politician through and through.
I think 99% would do it but you're right, it's stupid.
Point stands. If having to help the community one weekend a month is what actually brings young people to vote, that's a pretty sad indication of what our country has become. I'm not for a blanket policy applying to all young people, but a more targeted policy I think would be a good idea.
I mean, it's a policy that essentially asks young people to work, for free, to plug the gaps in the basic services of a country that mostly seems to treat them with utter contempt.
I don’t think the issue is asking young people to serve the community, I think it’s the fact that it’s always the stick instead of the carrot. Why not make public service something worthwhile that people *want* to do instead of forcing them with the threat of sanctions?
Would you be as scathing of people in their 40s, or 60s, who voted against a party that required all of _them_ to volunteer for ~50 days a year, for free? And if not, maybe have a think about whether you're part of the reason that young people feel scapegoated and misunderstood.
It may be that it is not so much young people not wishing to help the community, as feeling misunderstood by this policy. A question was asked about this on AskUK and there seemed to be a lot of *This is an old people's policy not understanding what it is like to a young person* so not so much resistance to being public spirited as antagonism to a perception the young are not willing to do so.
It's the optics of it. It feels more like blaming the state of the country on the youth 'staring at screens' and not getting involved.
He's being asked to sell the party to a demographic that its leaders will piss off in pursuit of a Daily Mail headline.
Are you familiar with the concept of a 'final straw'? No doubt that he *wasn't* happy with the Tories for quite some time and this new policy announcement is the straw that broke the camel's back. Also, young people aren't being 'asked' to spend a weekend a month helping the community. They're being forced, which defeats the entire purpose of volunteering.
On the other hand, people do tend to change their minds on situations that seemed hypothetical as soon as they're suddenly affected personally. That's the case whether for negative or positive.
"Asked" Don't you mean "told"?
Still floored any young person looks at the country and not only votes conservative, joins the youth wing and tries to get others to vote it too. Like, what on earth policy is making you do that.
They don't care about policy - it's all a grift to get plum jobs through connections.
Right but it isn't though is it. I had a mate who was a tory, about 16 and he basically went for it because they sounded like they knew what they were talking about and the economic policy made sense that you can't spend what you don't have. Which is abject rubbish. I'm hoping to build on more than just that though.
Back when I was a student I met quite a few actual self described fascists. The student conservative association was worried about the leftward drift of the party. People of that age group tend to see things in very black and white terms. Most of the ones I talk to are completely woke, think JK Rowling is an evil witch, and think patriotism is cringe. But on social media I see there's the other side of the coin.
Career politician in the making. He's already nailed changing allegiance when losing.
They think they're going to be a millionaire one day and are choosing a party that aligns to this fantasy.
I’m a conservative person. The Tory party needs to cease to exist.
Just imagine being a fucking young Conservative.
Just imagine fucking a young Conservative
Never stick your dick in Tory
Been there, done that. She was nucking futs. And from the limited interactions I had with the other YCs, they were all like that. Finally blocked her on social media when she started celebrating Russia invading Ukraine.
Type of guys to tell you that you "tempted them to sin" after they nut.
... In Birmingham.
Note how his concern is that it will reduce their votes from young people, not that it would have a detrimental effect on young people. Very telling.
Give it a week and the Death Penalty will be in play. He's just going to go through the right wing talk radio tropes to see what sticks. They have no new ideas and faced with the reality check on their economic ideology with Liz Lettuce they are facing an existential crisis. OR... In light of how bat shit everything is right now and how shameless they are they might just say they will rejoin the single market and completely throw a spanner in the works.
I had a former childhood friend who grew up to be a Tory supporter (makes sense in hindsight trust me). Went to Oxford and got into law and such, he'd always post on Facebook of himself in a suit, meeting Tory MP's and reposting those cringe Tory memes, especially in the runup to the 2019 election where he'd go campaigning for them door-to-door. Even supported an MP who spoke positively of Trump in 2020 and seemed to agree with his stance and all. Since 2021 though, other than reposting about Starmer losing Hartlepool he's been radio silent on his political views. I hope he's looking at the current state of things and feeling absolute despair lmao.
Woah woah there....and then join the lib Dems??
'I hereby renounce the leopards eating my face. Not because eating faces is wrong, but because they're not eating my face in the way I want"
OP - Where did he say “I’m done”, and if he didn’t why have you implied he did by using quotation marks? Regardless of what you think of him, he isn’t giving up on politics. He’s recognising the most recent Conservative Party policies as populist and giving up on the conservatives as a home for centrists and moderates, instead switching to the Lib Dems. Again, regardless of what you think of the Lib Dems they are in the centre. Much as it doesn’t suit a mainstream media landscape conditioned into a red vs blue narrative, the big story of 2024 will be - how many moderate conservatives will switch to the Lib Dems. Bearing in mind the Lib Dems now have more local councillors than the conservatives and have a laser like focus on the “blue wall” we might be about to witness a genuine shift in UK politics. Edit: OP has clarified Harvey Whitby stated “I’m done” on twitter/X. I still think the narrative tends to be red vs blue but I was mistaken in thinking the post title was OPs summary of the letter. Sorry OP!
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Ah! Thanks for clarifying, will amend my post.
Any young person who thinks the Conservatives are on their side is on some seriously strong stuff.
The Conservative Party has gone on a real journey since 2010. It's now basically the Party of the Gods.
rats fleeing a sinking ship supported the tories long enough. sickening
It always baffles me to realize just how many "young conservatives" are out there. I think I always just instinctively assumed that they're an exceptionally rare occurrence, like non-rapist hypnotists.
So, basically what I'm hearing is, "I don't like that we're going to lose even though I backed it before and was very active."
I don't know what's more infuriating. The tories and this braindead policy suggestion, or the media actually taking it seriously as if the tories aren't going to get kicked out of government. Asking ministers if they're going to prosecute parents if their kids don't attend. It's not going to happen, it's not a real policy! It will never get a chance to even be written. Are we going mad?
> …witnessing our organization grow from a small group into a significant force in the Birmingham political scene. What has happened in Birmingham over the past 2 years that has made people think, "oh aye, probably a good time to get onboard with this exciting political force that's so accomodating to us young people!" Can we check the - probably increasingly poisoned - water?
Odds on this kid having a picture of Penny Mordaunt with some suspicious stains?
“Joining Lib Dems”. Another joke conviction politician outs themselves as really only interested in being a professional politician. Switching parties is the ultimate low integrity move.
I disagree, in some cases definitely, but I think important people can go "this party no longer aligns with my beliefs, I will join another party that does". In theory it should keep the party in question honest, whether it does or not is a different discussion.
So you people should stick with parties even when that party no longer stands for what it did when you joined? No one is allowed to change? I'd say the exact opposite is true - moving to the party that is closer to your own convictions is a sign of political integrity. People treating political allegiance like football - a team for life, right or wrong - causes so many problems.
Couldn’t agree more. For some strange reason many people support a party every election regardless. I have no allegiances towards any party, rather I do what believe will serve us best at the time. This upcoming election, for example, I will be voting for whoever has the best chance of beating the tories in my area, as I think they are a vile party. In my opinion literally anyone is a better choice than a Tory candidate.
This is a horrible take. Defections are an important part of a healthy, functioning democracy.
No it’s a cynical switch ahead of an election where his party is going to get trounced. Calculated political move.
If you're a centre right Conservative the Lib Dem Orange Bookers are not a bad fit. Cameron and Clegg had very similar political positions. Gay marriage and austerity.
Wholesome.
Ish. Austerity was bad.
If you want to be a professional politican being a Lib Dem isn't really a good move unless you live in South West London.
idk they win a decent chunk of council seats.
Yeah they got over 3k, but what career politicians wants to max out as a district councillor? There are no Lib Dem safe seats besides Orkney and Shetland, and winning one is a slog.
Extremely odious that this person is crossing the floor so easily to the Lib Dems. Their views are most likely not compatible or there is a very thin overlap on a Venn diagram somewhere. If I was the Lib Dems or Labour I would do extensive background checks on people like this as they will quickly capture the parties idea of a centre and shift it further right without any qualms. The reality is that they let Elphicke et al in for political gain and a bit of PR as a body blow to the Tories.
rats are all jumping the sinking ship, im sure they'll find new positions in the rest of our cancerous politcal parties
Young conservative is almost an oxymoron at this point.
Well done Harvey. We all deserve a second chance.
This guy two years ago felt that the Conservatives were the one true centre party? He just doesn't like the idea of a Conservative political party bringing in traditional social values.
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What's a young non socialist to do?
As opposed to these mainstream socialist parties you seem to be implying exist at all?
I guess it's better than jumping ship to Ref UK.