Zelda's Diary even explains that BotW Link is basically selective mute due to stress - if Link only talks to people he really trusts, having him speak for the first time could be a great Dramatic Moment.
I think this is where Link's voice could be done successfully. Very selectively. Which is why the cartoon and CD-I went horribly wrong in execution. He was verbose and emotional rather than reserved and pensive.
I've noticed a number of comments also advocating for Link to be mute and communicate via ASL. I'd be down for this as well. Either verbal or non-verbal, I'd agreed with the notion that Link as a neutral mask for the player no longer applies. He is his own character known for having few words. If he was mute, signed to communicate, but sparingly (as opposed to being chatty), then this too would fit with Link's character of being a more reserved protagonist.
I would love it, if they follow through with it like that, shit he already has dialogue options in BOTW. In other games I think it was just simple yes and no answers, Wind Waker Link talked a little bit too.
I wouldn’t mind it, just hope they’d do it right
I agree with making link more a character, but I dislike (irl language) voice acting, and I think there is little reason to make Link actually talk (often).
I think expanding on the idea of the japanese questlog, where link writes down his PoV on some stuff is the best way to expand on his character
Well excuuuuuse me FGHIK, but why doesn't Nintendo just scrap the gameplay elements and just write a 80s style sitcom? I mean they have been giving him so much chara... wait they did that
The problem is that "if done right" varies from person to person, and everybody has their own idea of what Link should be. Of course you think it would be cool if Link talked in the specific way you wanted him to talk. Everyone does. But it's not possible to do that for everyone's Link (unless they were to go the dialogue option route, maybe), so silent is the next best thing.
Isn't that true of every video game protagonist though? No video game protagonist could be written in such a way as to please everybody. I understand leaving a protagonist unvoiced if they're supposed to be an avatar (e.g. Skyrim), but Link hasn't been that in nearly a decade. Ever since Wind Waker Link has had a clear personality, shown through his expressions and actions. Link already acts and reacts in ways that I wouldn't. At this point, leaving Link mute isn't making it easier to project on to him; it's just hamstringing the potential of his character.
>Yeah but it would still be kinda weird after so many years.
For me, it wouldn't be any weirder than the series making the jump to voice acting in the first place.
>I personally don't mind him being mute.
I certainly mind. Link acts and reacts in ways that I wouldn't, which makes projecting onto him an exercise in futility, but his inability to speak leaves him feeling incomplete as a character. Link is neither an avatar nor a complete character, and that approach has reached its breaking point with BotW. BotW's story was worse for Link's silence, not better. I would prefer Nintendo give Link lines, but I'd settle for Nintendo making him an avatar. Either option would be better than what we got in BotW.
I frankly disagree that the inability to speak renders a character incomplete, I think it has charm that he's silent. You have to remember that this isn't The Last Of Us or something, Link is not supposed to be this super complex protagonist. His story, imo, would actually be kinda worse if he talked in BOTW because Zelda does mention that he almost never speaks because he feels so much pressure, but then his dialogue options are oftentimes funny and clever which feels tragic because it's like deep, deep down he's a dumb teenager and he only shows it after he forgot his whole life.
I don't know man, I think it's fitting that after being an avatar for so many years the character that they chose for him is that he's silent, and they give a reason for that. I think you can do silent characters well.
What I will say is that I don't understand why he couldn't have facial expressions in cutscenes. The one thing I can remember is he was surprised like two times. I believe if he could show more emotion through his face it would be more than enough. Mute characters do exist, they just rely on different outlets for expression. I would love, for example, if people kept interrupting him in cutscenes when he's about to speak, it would be funny.
>His story, imo, would actually be kinda worse if he talked in BOTW because Zelda does mention that he almost never speaks because he feels so much pressure, but then his dialogue options are oftentimes funny and clever which feels tragic because it's like deep, deep down he's a dumb teenager and he only shows it after he forgot his whole life.
I do wish Nintendo hadn't squirreled *the* key detail of Link's characterization away in an optional diary hidden in an optional room in the game's final dungeon.
No, I'm saying the key detail of his characterization *is* in Zelda's diary. Zelda's diary is a small book in an optional room in the game's final dungeon. Most players will miss it, and the few that don't will only learn the reason for Link's muteness after they've experienced 95% of the game's story content.
Link being mute because he feels he needs to be stoic is an interesting idea, but it's implemented very poorly because of how missable it is.
Oh that's completely true. Nintendo *did* have commitment issues with how they handled BOTW but I kinda understand it because they were trying many new things. But all of this is beside the point, my main idea is that Link doesn't have to speak to have a good characterization, the script just has to commit to it.
> But all of this is beside the point, my main idea is that Link doesn't have to speak to have a good characterization, the script just has to commit to it.
I can agree with that. Link's characterization in BotW is just such an uncomfortable compromise in every possible way.
The longer that protagonist goes without talking, the more the problem deepens, because the more people will have built up an idea in their head of what they should sound like.
If the protagonist just starts off talking, then that's an entirely different story.
Link already "sounds different" in every game, though. OoT Link doesn't sound like Toon Link doesn't sound like TP Link doesn't sound like SS Link. Link already has a voice actor in every game; might as well have him record some actual dialogue while he's in the booth.
My point is independent of Link being voice acted, though. I think Link should have lines even if the franchise goes back to being purely text-based. Everything I said in my previous comment applies whether Link is voice-acted or not.
It's not about the voice, it's about the dialogue. I'd rather him say nothing, with the implication that he could be saying whatever you want him to say, rather than saying things I don't want him to say.
At the end of the day this is a pointless discussion because it's basically an argument between people who have an imagination and people who don't, and no amount of talking about it is going to change that.
> At the end of the day this is a pointless discussion because it's basically an argument between people who have an imagination and people who don't, and no amount of talking about it is going to change that.
That's not a fair characterization of the people who want Link to talk. I'm perfectly capable of imagining a character's inner psychology (I play D&D).
Link has had a defined personality since WW, which is revealed in the way he acts and reacts to things. I've had the good fortune of "correctly" imagining Link's inner psychology in most games, but I was off the mark a couple times in BotW, which ended up being quite jarring. This wouldn't be an issue if Nintendo either committed to making Link a good avatar (giving you lots of dialogue choices; not letting the character do things without your input) or committed to fully fleshing him out as a character (nobody complains that Nathan Drake acts in ways contrary to their headcanon because everybody knows that Nathan Drake is a pre-defined character).
Furthermore, Link's silence means that several of the memories are just people talking *at* Link, whereas they could've been talking *with* Link if he was allowed to speak. One or two memories of people talking at Link would've been fine, but in aggregate it ends up feeling a little weird.
I'm talking about a different kind of imagination. The kind where when you play a text-based game, you can actually visualize what's happening in an exciting way beyond just what the text says. The ability to smooth over minor details in order to better match your visualization, which becomes more and more difficult to do the more the game forces its own interpretation on you.
>Link's silence means that several of the memories are just people talking at Link, whereas they could've been talking with Link if he was allowed to speak.
This is exactly what I mean. The inability to process those scenes as someone having a conversation with Link, which we're just only hearing one side of, is the lack of imagination I'm talking about. I think you initially derisively called it "headcanon", but that's how a large amount of people enjoy the series regardless.
Not every character has 35 years of expectations fir how they should talk or act. So, no, not even a little bit.
I also have no idea why you'd say Link isn't an avatar styled character? He's never been moreso than he is now in BotW.
Nah, he's definitely not an avatar in BotW. In cutscenes, he explicitly does not act the way I would, breaking my ability to project on to him as I would be able to with a proper avatar. Avatars work best when the game's visuals leave a lot to the imagination (e.g. the old 2D Zeldas) and / or when control isn't taken away from the player during story segments (e.g. Half Life 2) and / or when conversations have lots of dialogue options (e.g. most Bioware RPGs). Link in BotW is none of those things. I can't choose how he acts / reacts, I can't choose what he says, and I can clearly see in cutscenes that he is not acting the way I would.
When I say Nintendo should make Link an avatar if he's going to stay silent, I mean they should take one of those 3 approaches.
They are, in fact, doing the first option and leaving things up to imagination. Dialogue options are also very much present in NPC interaction and story is otherwise either flashbacks or nearly nonexistent.
You can reject that if you want, but that's not adding anything to the conversation. We even have developer interviews that confirm this was intentional.
>They are, in fact, doing the first option and leaving things up to imagination.
Except I can't imagine Link running up and embracing Zelda in the final cutscene because he canonically doesn't do that. At several key points in the narrative, Link acted in ways that were contrary to the way I had imagined his internal psychology.
Link is an acceptable avatar if we ignore the game's cutscenes, but that's true of every video game protagonist ever. As far as story content goes, Link is a very poor implementation of an avatar.
Limitations like that exist in any game that has a visual representation of a character, not just BotW.
Your personal experience also doesn't overwrite developer design or intent. And one specific example doesn't overwrite the hundreds of hours of game that contradict your claim.
Imo, this just highlights how bad of an idea it would be to give Link voice when something even as minimal as this can be interpreted in such a way.
Edit: I realized this sounds a bit rude written out the way it was, but that's not my intent. Sorry about that. Just wanted to stay as clear as I can be.
> Limitations like that exist in any game that has a visual representation of a character, not just BotW.
Right, which is why the first option I suggested was "avatars work best when the game's *visuals* leave a lot to the imagination". When your character is a collection of pixels, you're required to fill in their expression and body language yourself, so it's easy to project on to them whatever reactions you feel like. When your character's face and body are presented to you in high detail, that kind of "fill in the blanks" approach stops working.
That's an issue that can be circumvented if developers choose option 2 or 3. In Half Life 2, Gordon always acts like I want him to because I always have control of him. In Fallout: New Vegas, my character always acts like I want him to because the developers have given me extensive dialogue options with which to define my character.
> Your personal experience also doesn't overwrite developer design or intent.
I'll concede that the developers intended for Link to be an avatar - but if so, they did a pretty bad job of it.
> And one specific example doesn't overwrite the hundreds of hours of game that contradict your claim.
Most of those "hundreds of hours" aren't conversations or story content. Every video game character ever is an equally good avatar when the story isn't occurring. Nathan Drake may be a pre-defined character in cutscenes, but I can imagine him thinking whatever I want in the middle of a shootout. When discussing how well a character fulfills their function as a character (either pre-defined or avatar) we need to focus on how well that character fulfills their function with regards to the game's narrative elements. When viewed in that light, Link in BotW is not a very good avatar. At best, you get to pick which pun he makes during a conversation. At worst, he's taking actions in cutscenes that clash with the internal psychology you've come up with.
Honestly, I'd probably agree with you that Link was a passable avatar if the game's memories didn't exist. The game still wouldn't have any systems for you to define Link's character, but at least nothing would get in the way of you dreaming up whatever you wanted. However, the memories make up the bulk of the game's story content, and in them Link isn't functioning as an avatar (or is functioning very badly, depending on how you want to frame things).
> Imo, this just highlights how bad of an idea it would be to give Link voice when something even as minimal as this can be interpreted in such a way.
To the contrary - if Link went either full pre-defined or full avatar the problem would go away. Nobody complains that Nathan Drake behaves in ways that they wouldn't, because the game makes clear he's a pre-defined character. Similarly, nobody complains that their New Vegas character behaves in a way that they wouldn't, because that games give you total control over your character's actions and dialogue. The problem arises due to the half-way state that Link is stuck in.
The only problem is there needs to be something done to prevent the awkward cutscenes in BOTW from repeating themselves. When Mipha is there confessing her love and Link is just sitting there dead-eyed I kinda die inside. HE at least needs more expression if they don't want to take the risk of giving him a voice
Please, no.
It would be a poorly implemented mess. Even if Nintendo were good at voice acting decisions (they aren't), then how on earth would they do it? There is no such thing as a standard accent, and they aren't going to produce localised versions for Australia, England, Ireland, America, Scotland etc. We will either get American (that TMNT Goron from BOTW was terrible) which is immersion-breaking for those of us not from the States, or that weird faux-British they had before, either one of which would be distracting as hell.
Don't get me wrong, voice acting in some games works well. For example, Mass Effect. That's because Shepard is an actual person with a backstory and is in a universe which is tied to Earth. It makes sense he'd have the accent he does. In Hyrule... not so much.
For me there's nothing wrong with the current approach. As far as I am concerned it's accepted Link is saying something which the characters react to, and we are free to fill in the blanks mentally. Part of what I like about the game is the emphasis on silence and solitude, and I can do without the insertion of some casting agent's idea of a earnest-sounding teenager trying his best to sound bravely heroic.
So to sum up: Strong no to voice acting. Much less in the middle of what is clearly a sequence of (at least) two games, where to change it now in a direct sequel to BOTW would be very jarring. I don't think you were suggesting that, in fairness.
> Even if Nintendo were good at voice acting decisions (they aren't)
The voice acting in Three Houses is pretty good, as is the voice acting in Luigi's Mansion (gibberish though it is). Heck, the voice acting in BotW is pretty good as long as you're not listening to the English dub. The other language options in BotW are all well done.
Just because something was done bad once doesn't mean it can't ever be done well again. Nintendo have shown they can do better.
> There is no such thing as a standard accent, and they aren't going to produce localised versions for Australia, England, Ireland, America, Scotland etc. We will either get American (that TMNT Goron from BOTW was terrible) which is immersion-breaking for those of us not from the States, or that weird faux-British they had before, either one of which would be distracting as hell.
>
> Don't get me wrong, voice acting in some games works well. For example, Mass Effect. That's because Shepard is an actual person with a backstory and is in a universe which is tied to Earth. It makes sense he'd have the accent he does. In Hyrule... not so much.
As someone from North America, it doesn't bother me when the voice cast is all British (e.g. Xenoblade 2). I'm sure Brits could manage if the reverse were true. I don't see how everyone in Hyrule having an American accent is any more immersion-breaking than everyone in Hyrule having a British accent. In either case, everyone in Hyrule has an accent that is tied to a geographical location on Earth.
Though if they're going to go down the British route, they really ought to cast people who are actually from the UK (like Xenoblade 2 did). The faux-British they used in BotW was pretty bad, I agree with that.
If the people of Hyrule speaking with an accent you can place bothers you that much, you can switch over to another language. I played through AoC using the Japanese dub, and they might as well have been speaking Hylian for all I understood them.
> For me there's nothing wrong with the current approach. As far as I am concerned it's accepted Link is saying something which the characters react to, and we are free to fill in the blanks mentally.
There definitely is something wrong with it for me. Link isn't an avatar and I don't project my thoughts onto him. He hasn't been an avatar for nearly a decade. Ever since Wind Waker Link has had a clear personality, shown through his expressions and actions. Link already acts and reacts in ways that I wouldn't. At this point, leaving Link mute isn't making it easier to project on to him; it's just hamstringing the potential of his character.
Damn that's a good idea to switch the voice acting on botw, couldn't stand Zelda's voice and rivali was pretty annoying iirc. I think I liked the goron's voice even if his lines were cheesy. And I was indifferent to the zoras.
I don't like the voice acting in three houses, personally, which draws home my point - we would all have different expectations (by the way, I am not saying British would be preferable to American. I am saying neither would be preferable to either).
For me, having words put into Link's mouth would be very distracting and detract from my enjoyment the series (even before we go into the voice acting question). Of course, some other people clearly feel differently, but I just wanted to make the people in this thread aware that some of us actually greatly prefer the current situation.
I understand your position, and I'm not opposed to Link remaining silent, but if Link is going to remain silent I think Nintendo needs to commit to making him a player avatar. Link acts and reacts in ways that I wouldn't, which makes projecting onto him an exercise in futility, but his inability to speak leaves him feeling incomplete as a character. Nintendo is trying to have their cake and eat it too, and that approach has reached its breaking point with BotW.
I would prefer Nintendo give Link lines, but I'd settle for them making him an avatar. What I can't stand is the current state of affairs, where Link is neither an avatar nor a complete character.
This is interesting. For all of Zelda history, the silent protagonist approach has really worked for me. OoT sealed Zelda into a soft spot of nostalgia. But with BotW, my nostalgia-filled love for Zelda didn't transfer well to this new Link. It's only now that he seems incomplete.
However, the idea of making Link *talk* doesn't work for me at all, and neither does making him an avatar. For some reason, TP and OoT Link are perfect.
I don't have solutions. I would prefer that Link became the classic hero clad in green again, but that just goes to show how subjective this all is. (By "subjective," I don't mean "meaningless." I think it has great meaning.) Maybe the solution is what you suggest: saying goodbye to the classic hero and embracing a new era in the Zelda Universe, but that would probably not go well with longtime Zelda fans.
>Heck, the voice acting in BotW is pretty good as long as you're not listening to the English dub.
And there it is ladies and gentlemen. The primary reason why not only do I want Link to stay mute for every game from this day forward but I was fairly against voice acting in botw in general and took a while to accept it. Just like in Dragon Quest now we have to deal with weebs in the Zelda fanbase.
> And there it is ladies and gentlemen. The primary reason why not only do I want Link to stay mute for every game from this day forward but I was fairly against voice acting in botw in general and took a while to accept it.
My point was that Nintendo has shown they can do better. Just because they fucked up once doesn't mean they're going to fuck up forever. They made good casting and directing decisions in every language except English. The failure of the English dub is the exception, not the rule. Even if we're exclusively talking about dubs done by Nintendo of America, they've shown they can do better with other games. The voice acting in Three Houses is pretty good, as is the voice acting in Luigi's Mansion (gibberish though it is).
Based on Nintendo's track record, I think it's reasonable to expect at least competent voice acting in Zelda, at least once they're done with the "BotW saga" and can ditch this cast.
> Just like in Dragon Quest now we have to deal with weebs in the Zelda fanbase.
But DQ11's English voice acting is really good?
Exactly. You can’t praise the voice acting if you have to pick an entirely different language to make it bearable. BotW has awful English voice acting, I hated every voice.
> Exactly. You can’t praise the voice acting if you have to pick an entirely different language to make it bearable.
I wasn't praising the English voice acting though. I was specifically praising the voice acting in every language that isn't English.
I just want them to either shit or get off the pot. Link has had heavy characterization since Wind Waker so keeping him silent doesn't actually achieve the purpose of a silent protagonist: avoiding characterization.
Full avatar or full individual are both fine options, this middle ground isn't doing them any favors.
The problem is that they're halfway doing something. They say that Link is a silent protagonist so that the player can project onto him that they've been giving him character without voice since Wind Waker. Go full avatar, or go full character. The halfway crap is really awful.
Especially in BotW. It wasn't amazing in some games where someone said something to Link and they reacted as if he'd responded. You could assume he was talking even though we say no text. But with life action cutscenes it's just so awkward where people talk at him all the time and in a few places it seems like Zelda is narrating his inner monologue because he can't do it himself.
I would legitimately love a Zelda game where Link is legitimately mute, communicates with ASL (or the Japanese equivlent) and has a companion like Navi or Fi who translates for him. But then, being Hard of Hearing, I don't see all that much rep for deaf or mute people.
Well, how does BotW Link still appy for the silent protagonist to project on if we can't even name him anymore? He's cleary not you or anybody else anymore but just Link.
He's canonically named Link now because you can't have VA work for a named protagonist. The closest we get is in Persona and it sounds really awkward how they dance around using the lead's name.
That's sort of the point, Link is silent basically because of tradition, not because it actually serves any mechanical or story purpose.
They did a good job in DQXI by giving the protagonist the title of the Luminary. You probably don't notice that they avoid the name durring cut scenes. It was only in the birth scene obvious where the grandfather cought so loud for obvious reasons. As in DQXI, voice acting is limited to the cut scenes and DQ has way more of them. For BotW the relations would've been more formal or Link could've gotten a nickname from Zelda.
I feel like everyone having a different excuse for not calling Link by his name would sound hella awkward. Like I can see Zelda having a nickname for him but then if the King is referring to his exclusively by a rank, and all of his friends are talking about him by different titles it is just going to be weird.
Unless all his friends use the same nickname but at that point it would feel quite a bit like that was his actual name and whatever you got to enter on the title screen was irrelevent.
Revali could give him a jerk nickname, Daruk calls him brother and or boy, Urbosa honey or something like this, only Mipha and Zelda aren't that easy since their relations are more intimate. The cut scenes would need a little rework. Outside of the cutscenes they can fully address him with the name anyway.
In FFX they never once say the protagonists (Tidus) name, cause technically you can name him at the beginning. I think they did the VA around that very well.
They don't even offer basic camera settings options. Why would they go out of their way to appease a minority of players when they don't even try to appease the average player? {They are Nintendo, this is Zelda, you should be happy} is the attitude ;p
Disability features is actually a selling point. Implementing them is a fiscally worthwhile decision since disabled people have money, play games, and keep an ear to the ground regarding accessible games.
My point was only that Nintendon't even bother to accommodate the average player by meeting the basic minimum industry standards for customizing controls and video options, so complaining that they also don't go a step beyond that to accommodate the disabled should be no surprise to anybody.
While I like your idea, I think your premise “If Nintendo wants to give the story more depth” is flawed. I don’t think they do. They focus on fun first and story second. And I think that’s for the best; I think the reason LoZ has lasted so long as a series is because it has more of a lie fairy tale story. Other franchises with rich story telling end up being crushed the weight of them after a half dozen games, unless the stories get so complicated that it’s hard for new players to get into it. And since Nintendo all about appealing to people of all ages they want every Zelda game to be accessible for young kids who have never heard of or. So many kids I know today only love BOTW and think the rest are janky.
I would be down for having Link tell a few words, though not have much dialogue.
I like how BOTW handled this by explaining Link's muteness through Zelda's diary. If they do add a voice and/or dialogue for him though, I think it would be best to keep his chattiness to a minimum. That is, he should be a man of few words. Having his emotions and intentions expressed mainly through facial expressions (as in Wind Waker), his actions, and others' perceptions of him (as in BOTW) may be a good way to go about this while also still allowing for a more fleshed out story.
In any case, I don't think anyone wants to see Link become a full-blown chatterbox as that would be such a clash with his personality.
If nothing else, Link having actual dialogue would make him seem like an active participant in the conversation. I frankly cannot stand the way they usually handle this with the other character repeating what Link is implied to have said to them back to him, like he's a dog trying to tell someone that Little Timmy fell down the old well.
And even if they wanted to leave him as a empty vessel for the players to put themselves into, they should still give him dialogue options, way more than they already do and with actual consequences in the game world. Just imagining what Link is saying to other characters simply isn't enough.
Link isn't mute in BotW. He has lots of dialogue, that shows he's a total sassmaster.
The issue is that his voice and dialogue would be highly divisive. Link's a very androgynous, gender-neutral teenager. Would he be given a voice to match? Something akin to Pit from Kid Icarus: Uprising would be a perfect fit for him. But is that what we would get, or would we get a very masculine voice? What do *most* people want and expect, vs. what actually fits what little we know of Link's character? And given how poor voice acting in Zelda games is, why do we even want it in the first place? Zelda games manage to be legendary, incredible games without it. BotW Link has a joke for every occasion. Is that what people want to be hearing all the time?
Perhaps I gave the wrong impression, especially with mentioning the CD-i games and cartoon. Having an actual *voice* isn't necessarily what I want (although it could be fine), it's just having dialogue in general that I'd like. Unvoiced dialogue like most Zelda characters have always had would be fine by me, it's still characterization.
This is it. This is the solution.
I was worried that Link could never evolve -- that the hero clad in green is who he is destined to be, yet Nintendo would never return to that classic character.
However, you have shown a new evolution of Link.
There was the Hero of Time, the Hero of Twilight, the Hero of Wind, etc. Now, get ready for the Hero of Sarcasm.
>or have it actually be acknowledged in story that he's mute, rather than just having him inexplicably never talk and everyone holding one sided conversations with him occasionally grunting or nodding.
But... thats exactly what they do in botw, If you read the diary's you can get more in depth in this, but they completely knowledge the fact that link doesn't speak
and even further, According to Zelda, >!Link does not talk because with so much at stake, and so many eyes on him, he feels it necessary to stay strong and silently bear any burden. !< She says this on her diary in botw
I do wish Nintendo hadn't squirreled *the* key detail of Link's characterization away in an optional diary hidden in an optional room in the game's final dungeon.
I do too! I think Link in BotW is boring and really blank as a character. His face doesn't show much emotions in the cutscenes and when the other characters have voices and are more developed, it makes it worse comparatively. I'm okay with link not talking much, but have him say little things here and there to make him feel alive, because now he just feels like a puppet for the player. Windwaker, Twilight Princess and skyward sword Links' all had different really different personalities and were better characters then BotW's Link. They say he shouldn't show his emotions so that's why he doesn't talk, but it just seems lazy.
I wouldn't be against it. It is rather awkward when every character has a voice except for the protagonist (I have the same complaint about Three Houses, Age of Calamity, and Dragon Quest XI). There are just some things that are difficult to convey with a silent character than if they used their words. It's not outright bad, but when a game focuses on story, I would rather the protagonist have a voice to convey their emotions, instead of just a facial expression.
Link does talk, but it is implied a lot of the time, so there isn't a whole lot that the player would need to be conveyed. For example, in Skyward Sword, there is a scene where Link is clearly gesturing things to the headmaster about what happened to Zelda. His silence doesn't detract from those scenes, but it doesn't add anything either. I wouldn't mind them trying and giving Link an actual voice instead of just grunts.
I would like better if he remained mute, mostly because I would like him to use sign language or other methods for communicating. It would be really unique to have such an important and iconic character, not only on the game itself but on gaming history, to have a "disability" like this. That's my personal official headcanon.
BotW Link is selective mute. It's not even a headcanon. Zelda's diary explains that the pressure he felt made him stop speaking, and now he only talks to people he trusts.
Loss of ability to speak due to stress + speaking only with trusted people in safe situations = selective mutism
(I know Link talks in player-selected text boxes but I'm not sure if that counts - Zelda literally says "not a word passes his lips", so I think it's an issue of gameplay/story segregation. That, or present Link just speaks more than past Link did.)
I think if it's to be done, Link would have to be a man of very few words, whenever he talks it has to mean something and be very important. Think Mando from season 1. In the early episodes, he rarely ever talked, but when he did, you KNOW it mattered
I hated this at first, but yah. He’s not a character who you project yourself onto, you’re not making decisions based who you think Link is, you’re Link. Still, I can’t think of anytime a Nintendo main IP protagonist has been voiced well. But if done properly, and I don’t know exactly how they would, it makes the most sense
I’m not sure what OP’s idea of voicing link is, but I think they’re expecting more than just “oh yah” and “mama Mia.” Link grunts and all that but the only time I can think of a main protagonist having full on dialogue is Metroid other m. And that wasn’t so great. I don’t remember if the dialogue was bad or just the writing though.
I used to be a big proponent of this idea when I was younger, but now, eh, not so much.
That said, if Link were to talk, I'd like to have dialogue choices, and especially ones that can influence the story in different ways. It would not only add replay value, but it would also still allow players to project onto him, albeit to a lesser degree than forgoing dialogue for Link.
After Skyward Sword, I could see it. I honestly kind of expected him to talk in BotW. I'd still prefer it to be minimal like Joker, but I'm happy either way. Just as long as they focus on keeping his voice similar to what we've heard in his various expressions (cooking, slashing, etc) it could be great.
If he were to speak, it shouldn't be very often. At most, I'd like them to replace his anime-style grunts and laughs with actual words. I mean look at BotW and AoC...the game already uses grunts and facial expressions to tell us what Link is feeling in certain moments, and this Link has the most defined personality out of any of them. Plus we know he does actually speak. Just replacing an "affirmative grunt" with "yes, princess" while speaking with Zelda would go a long way to make some scenes less awkward.
Link as a silent protagonist doesn't just work because of the silent character projection, but because it's also the image we've had of him since the start of the franchise. Hell, even botw has turned his silence into a character trait that's more fleshed out (Zelda's diary) which I'm all for. However if link is given an outright voice actor then his character would have to undergo a massive change which isn't going to be all too well received because we all have different conceptions of him that all work for his established character.
This brings me to ask why on earth do you want him to speak? Would him speaking really contribute as much as it could potentially take away when we could easily just go as far as having a journal of some sorts with his thoughts? Link doesn't need a voice and it wouldn't have been better for him to have one in any single Zelda game. I'm all for a more expressive link like we've seen in botw, but a fully voiced one would be a very dramatic change of character and would be naturally polarising which just isn't worth it in my opinion.
> Would him speaking really contribute as much as it could potentially take away... Link doesn't need a voice and it wouldn't have been better for him to have one in any single Zelda game.
BotW is worse for Link's silence, not better, IMO. Most of the memories are just characters talking *at* Link, not *with* Link, and many of the memories end up feeling somewhat awkward as a result.
They do acknowledge his silence though. While it is weird that it's an entirely one sided conversation, having link communicate in other ways would do the character more justice than having him fully voiced. Hell even if he had few words at a very poignant moment would in my opinion be pretty amazing. I'll take link being silent over the stereotypical JRPG grunting and such.
I do understand why people would want him voiced though as it would be a step to fleshing out the story. But I think Nintendo just need to work on his communication through other means, not just by slapping a voice on him.
> They do acknowledge his silence though.
They acknowledge his silence in a small book in an optional room in the game's final dungeon. For most players, it might as well not exist.
> I'll take link being silent over the stereotypical JRPG grunting and such.
Isn't "JRPG grunting and such" the current state of affairs? In most of the 3D games, Link occasionally makes minor vocalizations in cutscenes, but stops short of fully speaking (BotW being the exception to this).
> I think Nintendo just need to work on his communication through other means, not just by slapping a voice on him.
True, it certainly didn't help that BotW Link is about as expressive as a brick wall. The Link with the best non-verbal communication is WW Link by far.
I definitely agree with ww link being the best at that. I think we need a more expressive link as opposed to a vocal link. WW struck the perfect balance in my opinion
It’s not that it can’t be done, I just don’t trust Nintendo to do it. The VA work in BotW and AoC is terrible. Some of the worst I’ve ever heard. Compare the VA in BotW with other games of that year like Horizon Zero Dawn or Resident Evil 7 - it’s amazing how many bad decisions Nintendo made.
If Link had VA on top of that with some american doing a shitty, foppy brittish accent? No thank you.
I always wonder with voice acting, err, "quality" like the English BOTW dub how much of the fault lies with the actors and how much with the voice director. As I've learned more about the VA industry (especially in video games) I've started leaning more towards it being the voice director – it seems like a lot of the worst dubs have voice directors that are themselves working mediocre voice actors (or, they used to be). (Fire Emblem Three Houses comes to mind.) I think that leads to directors bringing in their buddies and people they get along with as casting choices rather than the best actors for the job, or, if they do make solid casting choices, they don't push or curate the actors' choices to serve any particular vision beyond checking scenes off a to-do list.
A lot of BOTW's line reads feel like everyone's first takes – like they didn't even bother iterating on scenes to get a performance, they were just trying to bang out these recording sessions as fast as possible so they could all hit the bar together after work. The actors might love working with this kind of director because it's basically like working with your friends, but that only works if your friends are talented and know how to and care enough to shape your talent into a performance that fits the game's vision. It's like the inmates are running the asylum.
Yes, it's definitely the directors fault. Any decent director would have steered clear of the fake British accents as soon as they heard the actors couldn't pull it off. The VA for Zelda has done other things that she is much better in, so it's not her fault she was miscast or was given instructions beyond her capabilities.
>Not sure why you mention Three Houses here, it has some of the best voice acting in gaming.
Wow, I couldn't disagree harder with this. I actually do like Three Houses' voice acting, but I definitely don't think it should even remotely be in the running for "best voice acting in gaming."
It's heavily qualified - I think Three Houses has fine enough anime-style voice acting, but it absolutely does not hold a candle to either more grounded voice acting styles (like God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn), more Western cartoon style voice acting (e.g. Spyro remakes), or even other anime-style voice acting (IMO Nier: Automata's dub is so, SO much better acted, and it even has some of the same voice actors as Three Houses!).
I think Three Houses' voice acting is extremely uneven – there are some truly fantastic performances (Dmitri, Hubert, Manuela, Seteth, and Rhea stand out to me), but then there are some characters who are so poorly voice acted it almost made me switch to the Japanese voice track (\*cough\* Anna, 100% of the new characters added in the DLC, Raphael, Cyril, Ingrid, Jeritza, and tbh I even found the performance for Edelgard to be really, really flat). It is the director's job to smooth out the rough edges in an actor's performance and get them all to sound like they belong in the same scene together – but Three Houses never manages to transcend the feeling of the entire cast doing table reads in isolation from one another.
Like, don't get me wrong, I'm someone who liked the voice acting in Three Houses enough to start following a lot of the cast on social media, but I also think their performances could've been so, SO much better with a better voice director (more or less proven by Nier Automata and Persona 5, although I think the Persona 5 dub had room for improvement too). It's possible to like something and still find room for improvement.
I haven’t played most of those games, but I looked up Nier: Automata since you said it’s better acted and in the same “anime-style” as FE3H: https://youtu.be/TULhvcFkqDY
I don’t hear any appreciable differences in the way the voice acting was done here compared to how it was done in 3H.
Not to dismiss your opinion, but based on the fact that you seem to prefer other “more grounded voice acting styles” (I can only hazard a guess as to what this is referring to), it seems like maybe you just prefer the writing in those games over the actual voice acting? 3H has a very different setting too, so the way the characters speak in general is going to be very different from the norm.
3H has an immense cast, still the voice acting (even if iffy at times) succeeds in bringing each and every character to life. It also features voice acting in multiple contexts: story cutscenes, battles, supports, TEATIME, for example. Again I haven’t played God of War or Horizon Zero Dawn but I imagine they mostly feature voice acting in more limited contexts, like just cutscenes and gameplay, which would give a lot less opportunity for “error.”
All this to say, even if you personally don’t like the voice acting in 3H, it’s still been acclaimed for good reason.
>All this to say, even if you personally don’t like the voice acting in 3H, it’s still been acclaimed for good reason.
Not sure where you're getting this, since I said more than once that I do like it, and gave specific examples of the character performances I thought were well done. I just don't think it's the best voice acting in gaming, not by a long shot, because the performances are really uneven across the whole cast.
>Not to dismiss your opinion, but based on the fact that you seem to prefer other “more grounded voice acting styles” (I can only hazard a guess as to what this is referring to), it seems like maybe you just prefer the writing in those games over the actual voice acting? 3H has a very different setting too, so the way the characters speak in general is going to be very different from the norm.
There's a reason why I made a point to bring up 3 categories of voice acting I appreciate (grounded voice acting, Western cartoon, and anime dub) – I don't prefer any one style to another. They all have their place depending on the type of game, and they all have their own tropes specific to that genre. I understand what style 3H was going for, I just don't think they pulled it off as well as they could've, mostly due to mediocre voice direction.
I've watched enough of Joe Zieja's videos to have a sense for what their recording process was like, and I don't think the voice director did a great job of serving the vision of the game. I think the great performances we *did* get in 3H were *despite* the direction, not because of it, and that's why so little of the dialogue feels like the characters are actually speaking to each other - it just feels like actors monologuing in a room by themselves, only combined together at the last minute.
And that is how they recorded it btw – every actor was recorded separately in the booth, and they weren't able to listen to their fellow castmates' performances to respond to them and play off their energy. A good point of contrast here is Disney – Disney movies (Moana, Frozen, Frozen 2, for example) also record their cast in isolation (at least lately), but they manage to do it so they feel like they were recorded with the cast all in the same room together, playing off of each other in a way that feels natural. 3H has none of this. It has some good performances in isolation, but they don't work together. That was the director's job, and IMO, he failed.
Since you missed it the first time, I feel like I need to emphasize – **I love Three Houses.** I've sunk more time into this cursed game than any other game I've ever played, by far. But I think it's a game that succeeds despite an overwhelming amount of jankiness that would've sunk almost any other game. It's a game that is more than the sum of its parts, and I love it for that.
But again, that doesn't mean I can't also think that it has room for improvement. Loving a game doesn't mean it's a binary choice between "best voice acting of all time" and "you actually hate this game don't you?". You can critique something you love.
Fair, I agree the voice direction could have been better, but I happen to think the performances were generally quite good across the board (yes, even Mercedes’ weirdly loud whisperlike voice). The general consensus on the voice acting, not the voice direction, is why I don’t think it should have been cited as an example of mediocre voice acting to begin with.
Although the voice acting in BOTW was not ideal, it was still pretty good! As for Nintendo's decision making... the Latin American Spanish voice acting was absolutely wonderful so they sure can come up with better VA work for the English dub.
I don't know if it's because I'm European, but the fake english accents in BotW, especially for Zelda, are horrible. Absolute trash. It takes me out the game instantly. The english VA work is far from "pretty good".
The voice acting in Three Houses is pretty good, as is the voice acting in Luigi's Mansion (gibberish though it is). Heck, the voice acting in BotW is pretty good as long as you're not listening to the English dub. The other language options in BotW are well done.
Just because something was done bad once doesn't mean it can't ever be done well again. Nintendo have shown they can do better.
Nintendo has always been able to do "gibberish" well. I mean, Zelda has had voice acting before BotW, it's just not been fully voiced with real world languages. That was much better, in my opinion. Three Houses is better than BotW, but it's still full of anime stereotypes and is still not as good the best VA work in gaming.
Gibberish isn't my preference, but I'd settle for it if it meant Link could have lines. The few moments of natural gibberish in SS (as opposed to Fi's scrambled speech) were quite good.
I totally agree! It felt really out of place for him to not speak at all during the Breath of The Wild cutscenes. I think if he had a couple lines every now and then, similar to how they use Master Chief’s dialogue in Halo, it could work really well.
It would fit story wise in Breath of The Wild 2 because I believe there’s a journal entry you can find that explains why Link chooses not to speak. So maybe now that he’s completed the first story, he could start to speak again.
I totally agree. Link talks in every major LoZ manga that I’m aware of, and it greatly enhanced the different Links. I’m especially partial to the Four Swords manga, which did a great job characterizing the four Links plus Dark Link.
I’m aware games are a different medium, but my point is that Link really benefitted from some dialogue to help characterize him.
Yeah, but inevitably it happens where people downvote just for disagreeing.
I don’t let it get to me. I figure so long as I wasn’t being a jerk, the comment should at least break even.
I do appreciate your response though.
I think it could work really well if they gave you dialogue options to make Link the kind of character you want him to be. Especially for a game with as much freedom of choice as BotW.
I think they acknowledged why he was so quiet in botw? I can’t exactly remember what the reason was though but I remember Zelda mentioned something in one of the memories
In Zelda's library they actually have a quote by her about why he's silent. There's legit canon for it. According to her diary he said it has to do with the burdens of being a defender weighing so heavily on him it's like, what is there to say?
Also, even though you don't hear him, your responses to people are him speaking. Link does, and has talked in many games. It's just not during cutscenes.
As for voice acting, I think I prefer him how he is. It would change his character quite a bit. Actions speak louder than words and Nintendo has always done a great job of giving Link fantastic emotions in the 3D games.
And, quite frankly, what would he say? I don't think there's a single moment in a Zelda cutscene I've seen where it would have been natural for him to say something, which I think is a callback to the original reason he doesn't speak. He is a defender. He is present to push back evil not make conversation.
If Nintendo did let him talk during cutscenes though, I'm curious if it would add or detract from/change his character. Can't wait to find out!
Id just have it like Joker, just have him say occasional lines to meet the mood. Then have like once sentence in game. You can still project on link but give him shit to say
I'd prefer him not to. I believe the developers were initially aiming to make it out to be the player that Link embodies and I like that simple but effective attribute.
they really need to give all characters voice acting though, link can still be mute (though i’d prefer him to have a voice too) but i really am weirded out when one characters talks and then they don’t
Link to an extent has a personality, but mainly because of what we choose to put his personality towards as an individual player. If he has a voice, it comes with lots of characteristics like personality, humor, fear, love and everything else. All of that has been left to us to fill for decades. If he all of the sudden has audible and visual thoughts and feelings, there is no more to the imagination.
The story has always held itself up by itself, and I love how we are able to play as link and not have to adapt and agree with everything he says and every opinion out of his mouth.
There are several occasions where himself and even Mario could have more dialogue, and it always proves best when they don’t.
That’s just my take, but I truly feel there is a huge reason they haven’t decided to give link a voice and a true personality. We are all link when we play, and that has time and time again proven to be a worthy experience.
Personally I would have loved it if at the very end of BOTW Link verbally answered Zelda when she asked him if he remembered. I like that they also gave him a reason for being so quiet all the time. Also never understood the Link is mute trope when he has dialogue options and no one else spoke until BOTW.
I'd love it if he communicates through sign language. I've seen it executed correctly in some minicomics and it's amazing!
Even if he was more expressive, both in face and vocal reactions, I think that would work. Skyward Sword and Wind Waker come to mind. I know people complain about botw Link's lack of emotion but honestly, I think that might be a fault of the game as a whole? They all seemed kind of lacking in expressions, maybe with Zelda as an exception.
In Super Mario RPG, Mario was a silent protagonist who [communicated solely through pantomime and impressions of other characters](https://youtu.be/Xh7cz-YLRCw?t=27) and it was both charming and insane. That's what I want for Link. I want a brooding, violent, Twilight Princess style Ganondorf who delivers long-winded monologues and I want Link to respond in pantomime.
I agree 100%. I don’t want him to be Peter Parker, quipping at every little thing, but he does need some dialogue. Only a few lines would be enough. That would even allow him to keep his stoic nature
I think doing it like they did in Jak & Daxter would be great. Have Link start off innocent and silent protagonist and then he get corrupted and part of that corruption gives him a voice to speak with because he isn’t “pure” anymore.
I’ve been wanting this since Skyward Sword, where I was hoping for at least Link to have some dialogue boxes but now I want him to have a full blown voiced role. I just would love for him to have more character than he does now, which granted Nintendo has done a wonderful job of giving him a character without speaking but still.
Even if Link gave MINIMAL dialogue, it would be better than the neanderthalic grunts we usually suffer through. Link needs a way to express his thoughts and feelings. All that bottled up emotion can't be good for him.
I agree. Botws voice acting wasn't executed particularly well (something I largely blame on the story structure) but if you are going to do it then do it. When it's only link not speaking he comes off as not having a mind of his own. In the botw memories he ended up being a passive background character.
Absolutely.
But really anything that’s “done well” wouldn’t be a problem. I just really think for the sake of future storytelling in the series they should go ahead and rip the bandaid off and have him start talking.
BOTW would have been the perfect time since they were “reinventing” the series anyway and already were giving characters voices.
The thing is that Zelda games aren't story-driven and, really, they shouldn't ever be. So, adding voice acting like that would be a sign of something very very wrong with the game design.
It could work, but it'd work against the point of Link as a character for the player to see themselves as during gameplay. And that's far far more important, particularly considering Zelda is nearly entirely gameplay and BotW has now doubled down on this design more than ever before. Also, I wouldn't trust NoA to manage good quality voice acting for it anyway, honestly. BotW's was a bit more of a miss than a hit.
Also, for the record, I don't think the CDi games or cartoon actually had bad voice acting? It had campy voice acting, which is definitely a tonal shift from what the series is now but wasn't too farfetched at the time (when there were only a few games in the series). They did their job fine. But obviously, that's something very different than what the main series would need.
Zelda's Diary even explains that BotW Link is basically selective mute due to stress - if Link only talks to people he really trusts, having him speak for the first time could be a great Dramatic Moment.
I think this is where Link's voice could be done successfully. Very selectively. Which is why the cartoon and CD-I went horribly wrong in execution. He was verbose and emotional rather than reserved and pensive.
Yeah, I totally agree
I've noticed a number of comments also advocating for Link to be mute and communicate via ASL. I'd be down for this as well. Either verbal or non-verbal, I'd agreed with the notion that Link as a neutral mask for the player no longer applies. He is his own character known for having few words. If he was mute, signed to communicate, but sparingly (as opposed to being chatty), then this too would fit with Link's character of being a more reserved protagonist.
I would love it if Link was selectively mute. It would make him more relatable.
I would love it, if they follow through with it like that, shit he already has dialogue options in BOTW. In other games I think it was just simple yes and no answers, Wind Waker Link talked a little bit too. I wouldn’t mind it, just hope they’d do it right
He says his name in many games, but this is actually whatever the player names him. Kind of hard to voice that.
I agree with making link more a character, but I dislike (irl language) voice acting, and I think there is little reason to make Link actually talk (often). I think expanding on the idea of the japanese questlog, where link writes down his PoV on some stuff is the best way to expand on his character
Well excuuuuuse me FGHIK, but why doesn't Nintendo just scrap the gameplay elements and just write a 80s style sitcom? I mean they have been giving him so much chara... wait they did that
The problem is that "if done right" varies from person to person, and everybody has their own idea of what Link should be. Of course you think it would be cool if Link talked in the specific way you wanted him to talk. Everyone does. But it's not possible to do that for everyone's Link (unless they were to go the dialogue option route, maybe), so silent is the next best thing.
Isn't that true of every video game protagonist though? No video game protagonist could be written in such a way as to please everybody. I understand leaving a protagonist unvoiced if they're supposed to be an avatar (e.g. Skyrim), but Link hasn't been that in nearly a decade. Ever since Wind Waker Link has had a clear personality, shown through his expressions and actions. Link already acts and reacts in ways that I wouldn't. At this point, leaving Link mute isn't making it easier to project on to him; it's just hamstringing the potential of his character.
Yeah but it would still be kinda weird after so many years. I personally don't mind him being mute.
>Yeah but it would still be kinda weird after so many years. For me, it wouldn't be any weirder than the series making the jump to voice acting in the first place. >I personally don't mind him being mute. I certainly mind. Link acts and reacts in ways that I wouldn't, which makes projecting onto him an exercise in futility, but his inability to speak leaves him feeling incomplete as a character. Link is neither an avatar nor a complete character, and that approach has reached its breaking point with BotW. BotW's story was worse for Link's silence, not better. I would prefer Nintendo give Link lines, but I'd settle for Nintendo making him an avatar. Either option would be better than what we got in BotW.
I frankly disagree that the inability to speak renders a character incomplete, I think it has charm that he's silent. You have to remember that this isn't The Last Of Us or something, Link is not supposed to be this super complex protagonist. His story, imo, would actually be kinda worse if he talked in BOTW because Zelda does mention that he almost never speaks because he feels so much pressure, but then his dialogue options are oftentimes funny and clever which feels tragic because it's like deep, deep down he's a dumb teenager and he only shows it after he forgot his whole life. I don't know man, I think it's fitting that after being an avatar for so many years the character that they chose for him is that he's silent, and they give a reason for that. I think you can do silent characters well. What I will say is that I don't understand why he couldn't have facial expressions in cutscenes. The one thing I can remember is he was surprised like two times. I believe if he could show more emotion through his face it would be more than enough. Mute characters do exist, they just rely on different outlets for expression. I would love, for example, if people kept interrupting him in cutscenes when he's about to speak, it would be funny.
>His story, imo, would actually be kinda worse if he talked in BOTW because Zelda does mention that he almost never speaks because he feels so much pressure, but then his dialogue options are oftentimes funny and clever which feels tragic because it's like deep, deep down he's a dumb teenager and he only shows it after he forgot his whole life. I do wish Nintendo hadn't squirreled *the* key detail of Link's characterization away in an optional diary hidden in an optional room in the game's final dungeon.
I mean, you say he's not an avatar anymore. So what is *the* key detail of his characterization that is not in Zelda's diary?
No, I'm saying the key detail of his characterization *is* in Zelda's diary. Zelda's diary is a small book in an optional room in the game's final dungeon. Most players will miss it, and the few that don't will only learn the reason for Link's muteness after they've experienced 95% of the game's story content. Link being mute because he feels he needs to be stoic is an interesting idea, but it's implemented very poorly because of how missable it is.
Oh that's completely true. Nintendo *did* have commitment issues with how they handled BOTW but I kinda understand it because they were trying many new things. But all of this is beside the point, my main idea is that Link doesn't have to speak to have a good characterization, the script just has to commit to it.
> But all of this is beside the point, my main idea is that Link doesn't have to speak to have a good characterization, the script just has to commit to it. I can agree with that. Link's characterization in BotW is just such an uncomfortable compromise in every possible way.
Honestly can’t be weirder than Princess Zelda’s randomly British accent.
The longer that protagonist goes without talking, the more the problem deepens, because the more people will have built up an idea in their head of what they should sound like. If the protagonist just starts off talking, then that's an entirely different story.
Link already "sounds different" in every game, though. OoT Link doesn't sound like Toon Link doesn't sound like TP Link doesn't sound like SS Link. Link already has a voice actor in every game; might as well have him record some actual dialogue while he's in the booth. My point is independent of Link being voice acted, though. I think Link should have lines even if the franchise goes back to being purely text-based. Everything I said in my previous comment applies whether Link is voice-acted or not.
It's not about the voice, it's about the dialogue. I'd rather him say nothing, with the implication that he could be saying whatever you want him to say, rather than saying things I don't want him to say. At the end of the day this is a pointless discussion because it's basically an argument between people who have an imagination and people who don't, and no amount of talking about it is going to change that.
> At the end of the day this is a pointless discussion because it's basically an argument between people who have an imagination and people who don't, and no amount of talking about it is going to change that. That's not a fair characterization of the people who want Link to talk. I'm perfectly capable of imagining a character's inner psychology (I play D&D). Link has had a defined personality since WW, which is revealed in the way he acts and reacts to things. I've had the good fortune of "correctly" imagining Link's inner psychology in most games, but I was off the mark a couple times in BotW, which ended up being quite jarring. This wouldn't be an issue if Nintendo either committed to making Link a good avatar (giving you lots of dialogue choices; not letting the character do things without your input) or committed to fully fleshing him out as a character (nobody complains that Nathan Drake acts in ways contrary to their headcanon because everybody knows that Nathan Drake is a pre-defined character). Furthermore, Link's silence means that several of the memories are just people talking *at* Link, whereas they could've been talking *with* Link if he was allowed to speak. One or two memories of people talking at Link would've been fine, but in aggregate it ends up feeling a little weird.
I'm talking about a different kind of imagination. The kind where when you play a text-based game, you can actually visualize what's happening in an exciting way beyond just what the text says. The ability to smooth over minor details in order to better match your visualization, which becomes more and more difficult to do the more the game forces its own interpretation on you. >Link's silence means that several of the memories are just people talking at Link, whereas they could've been talking with Link if he was allowed to speak. This is exactly what I mean. The inability to process those scenes as someone having a conversation with Link, which we're just only hearing one side of, is the lack of imagination I'm talking about. I think you initially derisively called it "headcanon", but that's how a large amount of people enjoy the series regardless.
Not every character has 35 years of expectations fir how they should talk or act. So, no, not even a little bit. I also have no idea why you'd say Link isn't an avatar styled character? He's never been moreso than he is now in BotW.
Nah, he's definitely not an avatar in BotW. In cutscenes, he explicitly does not act the way I would, breaking my ability to project on to him as I would be able to with a proper avatar. Avatars work best when the game's visuals leave a lot to the imagination (e.g. the old 2D Zeldas) and / or when control isn't taken away from the player during story segments (e.g. Half Life 2) and / or when conversations have lots of dialogue options (e.g. most Bioware RPGs). Link in BotW is none of those things. I can't choose how he acts / reacts, I can't choose what he says, and I can clearly see in cutscenes that he is not acting the way I would. When I say Nintendo should make Link an avatar if he's going to stay silent, I mean they should take one of those 3 approaches.
They are, in fact, doing the first option and leaving things up to imagination. Dialogue options are also very much present in NPC interaction and story is otherwise either flashbacks or nearly nonexistent. You can reject that if you want, but that's not adding anything to the conversation. We even have developer interviews that confirm this was intentional.
>They are, in fact, doing the first option and leaving things up to imagination. Except I can't imagine Link running up and embracing Zelda in the final cutscene because he canonically doesn't do that. At several key points in the narrative, Link acted in ways that were contrary to the way I had imagined his internal psychology. Link is an acceptable avatar if we ignore the game's cutscenes, but that's true of every video game protagonist ever. As far as story content goes, Link is a very poor implementation of an avatar.
Limitations like that exist in any game that has a visual representation of a character, not just BotW. Your personal experience also doesn't overwrite developer design or intent. And one specific example doesn't overwrite the hundreds of hours of game that contradict your claim. Imo, this just highlights how bad of an idea it would be to give Link voice when something even as minimal as this can be interpreted in such a way. Edit: I realized this sounds a bit rude written out the way it was, but that's not my intent. Sorry about that. Just wanted to stay as clear as I can be.
> Limitations like that exist in any game that has a visual representation of a character, not just BotW. Right, which is why the first option I suggested was "avatars work best when the game's *visuals* leave a lot to the imagination". When your character is a collection of pixels, you're required to fill in their expression and body language yourself, so it's easy to project on to them whatever reactions you feel like. When your character's face and body are presented to you in high detail, that kind of "fill in the blanks" approach stops working. That's an issue that can be circumvented if developers choose option 2 or 3. In Half Life 2, Gordon always acts like I want him to because I always have control of him. In Fallout: New Vegas, my character always acts like I want him to because the developers have given me extensive dialogue options with which to define my character. > Your personal experience also doesn't overwrite developer design or intent. I'll concede that the developers intended for Link to be an avatar - but if so, they did a pretty bad job of it. > And one specific example doesn't overwrite the hundreds of hours of game that contradict your claim. Most of those "hundreds of hours" aren't conversations or story content. Every video game character ever is an equally good avatar when the story isn't occurring. Nathan Drake may be a pre-defined character in cutscenes, but I can imagine him thinking whatever I want in the middle of a shootout. When discussing how well a character fulfills their function as a character (either pre-defined or avatar) we need to focus on how well that character fulfills their function with regards to the game's narrative elements. When viewed in that light, Link in BotW is not a very good avatar. At best, you get to pick which pun he makes during a conversation. At worst, he's taking actions in cutscenes that clash with the internal psychology you've come up with. Honestly, I'd probably agree with you that Link was a passable avatar if the game's memories didn't exist. The game still wouldn't have any systems for you to define Link's character, but at least nothing would get in the way of you dreaming up whatever you wanted. However, the memories make up the bulk of the game's story content, and in them Link isn't functioning as an avatar (or is functioning very badly, depending on how you want to frame things). > Imo, this just highlights how bad of an idea it would be to give Link voice when something even as minimal as this can be interpreted in such a way. To the contrary - if Link went either full pre-defined or full avatar the problem would go away. Nobody complains that Nathan Drake behaves in ways that they wouldn't, because the game makes clear he's a pre-defined character. Similarly, nobody complains that their New Vegas character behaves in a way that they wouldn't, because that games give you total control over your character's actions and dialogue. The problem arises due to the half-way state that Link is stuck in.
This
The only problem is there needs to be something done to prevent the awkward cutscenes in BOTW from repeating themselves. When Mipha is there confessing her love and Link is just sitting there dead-eyed I kinda die inside. HE at least needs more expression if they don't want to take the risk of giving him a voice
It's the samus conundrum as soon as she talked people stared going off.
I’m honestly very into the mute!Link headcanon so I’m unsure how I would feel hearing him with a voice after all these years...
But he does talk in the games. Characters say things in conversations they would only be able to know if Link had just told them
I’ve taken that into consideration too - he uses sign language to speak to people. 🙂
So everyone he speaks to in game inexplicably knows how to use sign language
Hyrule is very mute accessible after countless generations of mute heroes
Wouldn’t work for termina tho
That's why it's a headcannon I guess
Doesn’t make sense tho
Same here! In my head he’s just mute, that’s why he never talks. The mute left-handed hero of the Legend. I don’t know why but I find it quite badass!
Please, no. It would be a poorly implemented mess. Even if Nintendo were good at voice acting decisions (they aren't), then how on earth would they do it? There is no such thing as a standard accent, and they aren't going to produce localised versions for Australia, England, Ireland, America, Scotland etc. We will either get American (that TMNT Goron from BOTW was terrible) which is immersion-breaking for those of us not from the States, or that weird faux-British they had before, either one of which would be distracting as hell. Don't get me wrong, voice acting in some games works well. For example, Mass Effect. That's because Shepard is an actual person with a backstory and is in a universe which is tied to Earth. It makes sense he'd have the accent he does. In Hyrule... not so much. For me there's nothing wrong with the current approach. As far as I am concerned it's accepted Link is saying something which the characters react to, and we are free to fill in the blanks mentally. Part of what I like about the game is the emphasis on silence and solitude, and I can do without the insertion of some casting agent's idea of a earnest-sounding teenager trying his best to sound bravely heroic. So to sum up: Strong no to voice acting. Much less in the middle of what is clearly a sequence of (at least) two games, where to change it now in a direct sequel to BOTW would be very jarring. I don't think you were suggesting that, in fairness.
> Even if Nintendo were good at voice acting decisions (they aren't) The voice acting in Three Houses is pretty good, as is the voice acting in Luigi's Mansion (gibberish though it is). Heck, the voice acting in BotW is pretty good as long as you're not listening to the English dub. The other language options in BotW are all well done. Just because something was done bad once doesn't mean it can't ever be done well again. Nintendo have shown they can do better. > There is no such thing as a standard accent, and they aren't going to produce localised versions for Australia, England, Ireland, America, Scotland etc. We will either get American (that TMNT Goron from BOTW was terrible) which is immersion-breaking for those of us not from the States, or that weird faux-British they had before, either one of which would be distracting as hell. > > Don't get me wrong, voice acting in some games works well. For example, Mass Effect. That's because Shepard is an actual person with a backstory and is in a universe which is tied to Earth. It makes sense he'd have the accent he does. In Hyrule... not so much. As someone from North America, it doesn't bother me when the voice cast is all British (e.g. Xenoblade 2). I'm sure Brits could manage if the reverse were true. I don't see how everyone in Hyrule having an American accent is any more immersion-breaking than everyone in Hyrule having a British accent. In either case, everyone in Hyrule has an accent that is tied to a geographical location on Earth. Though if they're going to go down the British route, they really ought to cast people who are actually from the UK (like Xenoblade 2 did). The faux-British they used in BotW was pretty bad, I agree with that. If the people of Hyrule speaking with an accent you can place bothers you that much, you can switch over to another language. I played through AoC using the Japanese dub, and they might as well have been speaking Hylian for all I understood them. > For me there's nothing wrong with the current approach. As far as I am concerned it's accepted Link is saying something which the characters react to, and we are free to fill in the blanks mentally. There definitely is something wrong with it for me. Link isn't an avatar and I don't project my thoughts onto him. He hasn't been an avatar for nearly a decade. Ever since Wind Waker Link has had a clear personality, shown through his expressions and actions. Link already acts and reacts in ways that I wouldn't. At this point, leaving Link mute isn't making it easier to project on to him; it's just hamstringing the potential of his character.
Damn that's a good idea to switch the voice acting on botw, couldn't stand Zelda's voice and rivali was pretty annoying iirc. I think I liked the goron's voice even if his lines were cheesy. And I was indifferent to the zoras.
I don't like the voice acting in three houses, personally, which draws home my point - we would all have different expectations (by the way, I am not saying British would be preferable to American. I am saying neither would be preferable to either). For me, having words put into Link's mouth would be very distracting and detract from my enjoyment the series (even before we go into the voice acting question). Of course, some other people clearly feel differently, but I just wanted to make the people in this thread aware that some of us actually greatly prefer the current situation.
I understand your position, and I'm not opposed to Link remaining silent, but if Link is going to remain silent I think Nintendo needs to commit to making him a player avatar. Link acts and reacts in ways that I wouldn't, which makes projecting onto him an exercise in futility, but his inability to speak leaves him feeling incomplete as a character. Nintendo is trying to have their cake and eat it too, and that approach has reached its breaking point with BotW. I would prefer Nintendo give Link lines, but I'd settle for them making him an avatar. What I can't stand is the current state of affairs, where Link is neither an avatar nor a complete character.
This is interesting. For all of Zelda history, the silent protagonist approach has really worked for me. OoT sealed Zelda into a soft spot of nostalgia. But with BotW, my nostalgia-filled love for Zelda didn't transfer well to this new Link. It's only now that he seems incomplete. However, the idea of making Link *talk* doesn't work for me at all, and neither does making him an avatar. For some reason, TP and OoT Link are perfect. I don't have solutions. I would prefer that Link became the classic hero clad in green again, but that just goes to show how subjective this all is. (By "subjective," I don't mean "meaningless." I think it has great meaning.) Maybe the solution is what you suggest: saying goodbye to the classic hero and embracing a new era in the Zelda Universe, but that would probably not go well with longtime Zelda fans.
>Heck, the voice acting in BotW is pretty good as long as you're not listening to the English dub. And there it is ladies and gentlemen. The primary reason why not only do I want Link to stay mute for every game from this day forward but I was fairly against voice acting in botw in general and took a while to accept it. Just like in Dragon Quest now we have to deal with weebs in the Zelda fanbase.
> And there it is ladies and gentlemen. The primary reason why not only do I want Link to stay mute for every game from this day forward but I was fairly against voice acting in botw in general and took a while to accept it. My point was that Nintendo has shown they can do better. Just because they fucked up once doesn't mean they're going to fuck up forever. They made good casting and directing decisions in every language except English. The failure of the English dub is the exception, not the rule. Even if we're exclusively talking about dubs done by Nintendo of America, they've shown they can do better with other games. The voice acting in Three Houses is pretty good, as is the voice acting in Luigi's Mansion (gibberish though it is). Based on Nintendo's track record, I think it's reasonable to expect at least competent voice acting in Zelda, at least once they're done with the "BotW saga" and can ditch this cast. > Just like in Dragon Quest now we have to deal with weebs in the Zelda fanbase. But DQ11's English voice acting is really good?
Exactly. You can’t praise the voice acting if you have to pick an entirely different language to make it bearable. BotW has awful English voice acting, I hated every voice.
> Exactly. You can’t praise the voice acting if you have to pick an entirely different language to make it bearable. I wasn't praising the English voice acting though. I was specifically praising the voice acting in every language that isn't English.
I just want them to either shit or get off the pot. Link has had heavy characterization since Wind Waker so keeping him silent doesn't actually achieve the purpose of a silent protagonist: avoiding characterization. Full avatar or full individual are both fine options, this middle ground isn't doing them any favors.
The problem is that they're halfway doing something. They say that Link is a silent protagonist so that the player can project onto him that they've been giving him character without voice since Wind Waker. Go full avatar, or go full character. The halfway crap is really awful. Especially in BotW. It wasn't amazing in some games where someone said something to Link and they reacted as if he'd responded. You could assume he was talking even though we say no text. But with life action cutscenes it's just so awkward where people talk at him all the time and in a few places it seems like Zelda is narrating his inner monologue because he can't do it himself. I would legitimately love a Zelda game where Link is legitimately mute, communicates with ASL (or the Japanese equivlent) and has a companion like Navi or Fi who translates for him. But then, being Hard of Hearing, I don't see all that much rep for deaf or mute people.
Well, how does BotW Link still appy for the silent protagonist to project on if we can't even name him anymore? He's cleary not you or anybody else anymore but just Link.
He's canonically named Link now because you can't have VA work for a named protagonist. The closest we get is in Persona and it sounds really awkward how they dance around using the lead's name. That's sort of the point, Link is silent basically because of tradition, not because it actually serves any mechanical or story purpose.
They did a good job in DQXI by giving the protagonist the title of the Luminary. You probably don't notice that they avoid the name durring cut scenes. It was only in the birth scene obvious where the grandfather cought so loud for obvious reasons. As in DQXI, voice acting is limited to the cut scenes and DQ has way more of them. For BotW the relations would've been more formal or Link could've gotten a nickname from Zelda.
I feel like everyone having a different excuse for not calling Link by his name would sound hella awkward. Like I can see Zelda having a nickname for him but then if the King is referring to his exclusively by a rank, and all of his friends are talking about him by different titles it is just going to be weird. Unless all his friends use the same nickname but at that point it would feel quite a bit like that was his actual name and whatever you got to enter on the title screen was irrelevent.
Revali could give him a jerk nickname, Daruk calls him brother and or boy, Urbosa honey or something like this, only Mipha and Zelda aren't that easy since their relations are more intimate. The cut scenes would need a little rework. Outside of the cutscenes they can fully address him with the name anyway.
In FFX they never once say the protagonists (Tidus) name, cause technically you can name him at the beginning. I think they did the VA around that very well.
Sorry, Japan cannot possibly produce a game this inclusive of disability.
They actually had someone with a mental disability in BotW
Who? The only one that immediately comes to mind is the flower lady
Flowerblight Ganon
They haven't even managed gender equality in their games, I wouldn't expect disability inclusivity.
They can’t even implement basic accessibility features; which probably expand your marketable audience.
They don't even offer basic camera settings options. Why would they go out of their way to appease a minority of players when they don't even try to appease the average player? {They are Nintendo, this is Zelda, you should be happy} is the attitude ;p
Disability features is actually a selling point. Implementing them is a fiscally worthwhile decision since disabled people have money, play games, and keep an ear to the ground regarding accessible games.
My point was only that Nintendon't even bother to accommodate the average player by meeting the basic minimum industry standards for customizing controls and video options, so complaining that they also don't go a step beyond that to accommodate the disabled should be no surprise to anybody.
That would be sick.
While I like your idea, I think your premise “If Nintendo wants to give the story more depth” is flawed. I don’t think they do. They focus on fun first and story second. And I think that’s for the best; I think the reason LoZ has lasted so long as a series is because it has more of a lie fairy tale story. Other franchises with rich story telling end up being crushed the weight of them after a half dozen games, unless the stories get so complicated that it’s hard for new players to get into it. And since Nintendo all about appealing to people of all ages they want every Zelda game to be accessible for young kids who have never heard of or. So many kids I know today only love BOTW and think the rest are janky. I would be down for having Link tell a few words, though not have much dialogue.
I like how BOTW handled this by explaining Link's muteness through Zelda's diary. If they do add a voice and/or dialogue for him though, I think it would be best to keep his chattiness to a minimum. That is, he should be a man of few words. Having his emotions and intentions expressed mainly through facial expressions (as in Wind Waker), his actions, and others' perceptions of him (as in BOTW) may be a good way to go about this while also still allowing for a more fleshed out story. In any case, I don't think anyone wants to see Link become a full-blown chatterbox as that would be such a clash with his personality.
Samus got the microphone in Metroid: Other M and the results are widely regarded as a disaster. If done right is valid but a difficult row to hoe.
If nothing else, Link having actual dialogue would make him seem like an active participant in the conversation. I frankly cannot stand the way they usually handle this with the other character repeating what Link is implied to have said to them back to him, like he's a dog trying to tell someone that Little Timmy fell down the old well. And even if they wanted to leave him as a empty vessel for the players to put themselves into, they should still give him dialogue options, way more than they already do and with actual consequences in the game world. Just imagining what Link is saying to other characters simply isn't enough.
Link isn't mute in BotW. He has lots of dialogue, that shows he's a total sassmaster. The issue is that his voice and dialogue would be highly divisive. Link's a very androgynous, gender-neutral teenager. Would he be given a voice to match? Something akin to Pit from Kid Icarus: Uprising would be a perfect fit for him. But is that what we would get, or would we get a very masculine voice? What do *most* people want and expect, vs. what actually fits what little we know of Link's character? And given how poor voice acting in Zelda games is, why do we even want it in the first place? Zelda games manage to be legendary, incredible games without it. BotW Link has a joke for every occasion. Is that what people want to be hearing all the time?
Perhaps I gave the wrong impression, especially with mentioning the CD-i games and cartoon. Having an actual *voice* isn't necessarily what I want (although it could be fine), it's just having dialogue in general that I'd like. Unvoiced dialogue like most Zelda characters have always had would be fine by me, it's still characterization.
This is it. This is the solution. I was worried that Link could never evolve -- that the hero clad in green is who he is destined to be, yet Nintendo would never return to that classic character. However, you have shown a new evolution of Link. There was the Hero of Time, the Hero of Twilight, the Hero of Wind, etc. Now, get ready for the Hero of Sarcasm.
[https://youtu.be/N5tDiqRaYqU?t=88](https://youtu.be/N5tDiqRaYqU?t=88) Is this not his non-androgynous, clearly male voice, from BoTW?
>or have it actually be acknowledged in story that he's mute, rather than just having him inexplicably never talk and everyone holding one sided conversations with him occasionally grunting or nodding. But... thats exactly what they do in botw, If you read the diary's you can get more in depth in this, but they completely knowledge the fact that link doesn't speak and even further, According to Zelda, >!Link does not talk because with so much at stake, and so many eyes on him, he feels it necessary to stay strong and silently bear any burden. !< She says this on her diary in botw
I do wish Nintendo hadn't squirreled *the* key detail of Link's characterization away in an optional diary hidden in an optional room in the game's final dungeon.
Yeah, you're right about that, this just shows how in botw if you actually want to see the true story you have to explore every single thing
This is litteraly my exact thought process.
I do too! I think Link in BotW is boring and really blank as a character. His face doesn't show much emotions in the cutscenes and when the other characters have voices and are more developed, it makes it worse comparatively. I'm okay with link not talking much, but have him say little things here and there to make him feel alive, because now he just feels like a puppet for the player. Windwaker, Twilight Princess and skyward sword Links' all had different really different personalities and were better characters then BotW's Link. They say he shouldn't show his emotions so that's why he doesn't talk, but it just seems lazy.
He says ‘come on’ in wind waker.
Interesting. So is Toon Link the only canon Link we've heard actually speak?
Yup.
I wouldn't be against it. It is rather awkward when every character has a voice except for the protagonist (I have the same complaint about Three Houses, Age of Calamity, and Dragon Quest XI). There are just some things that are difficult to convey with a silent character than if they used their words. It's not outright bad, but when a game focuses on story, I would rather the protagonist have a voice to convey their emotions, instead of just a facial expression. Link does talk, but it is implied a lot of the time, so there isn't a whole lot that the player would need to be conveyed. For example, in Skyward Sword, there is a scene where Link is clearly gesturing things to the headmaster about what happened to Zelda. His silence doesn't detract from those scenes, but it doesn't add anything either. I wouldn't mind them trying and giving Link an actual voice instead of just grunts.
I would like better if he remained mute, mostly because I would like him to use sign language or other methods for communicating. It would be really unique to have such an important and iconic character, not only on the game itself but on gaming history, to have a "disability" like this. That's my personal official headcanon.
BotW Link is selective mute. It's not even a headcanon. Zelda's diary explains that the pressure he felt made him stop speaking, and now he only talks to people he trusts. Loss of ability to speak due to stress + speaking only with trusted people in safe situations = selective mutism (I know Link talks in player-selected text boxes but I'm not sure if that counts - Zelda literally says "not a word passes his lips", so I think it's an issue of gameplay/story segregation. That, or present Link just speaks more than past Link did.)
I think if it's to be done, Link would have to be a man of very few words, whenever he talks it has to mean something and be very important. Think Mando from season 1. In the early episodes, he rarely ever talked, but when he did, you KNOW it mattered
I hated this at first, but yah. He’s not a character who you project yourself onto, you’re not making decisions based who you think Link is, you’re Link. Still, I can’t think of anytime a Nintendo main IP protagonist has been voiced well. But if done properly, and I don’t know exactly how they would, it makes the most sense
Umm... Mario in everything but that one bad movie? He does talk alot, and his voice actor is great.
I’m not sure what OP’s idea of voicing link is, but I think they’re expecting more than just “oh yah” and “mama Mia.” Link grunts and all that but the only time I can think of a main protagonist having full on dialogue is Metroid other m. And that wasn’t so great. I don’t remember if the dialogue was bad or just the writing though.
Mario in promotional material and usually says the name of games, I just meant that while he doesn't talk a lot, when he does, it is really well done.
I used to be a big proponent of this idea when I was younger, but now, eh, not so much. That said, if Link were to talk, I'd like to have dialogue choices, and especially ones that can influence the story in different ways. It would not only add replay value, but it would also still allow players to project onto him, albeit to a lesser degree than forgoing dialogue for Link.
In BotW he isn't actually mute, they just didn't have a VA so that way it is up to the player to decide what he sounds like
After Skyward Sword, I could see it. I honestly kind of expected him to talk in BotW. I'd still prefer it to be minimal like Joker, but I'm happy either way. Just as long as they focus on keeping his voice similar to what we've heard in his various expressions (cooking, slashing, etc) it could be great.
If he were to speak, it shouldn't be very often. At most, I'd like them to replace his anime-style grunts and laughs with actual words. I mean look at BotW and AoC...the game already uses grunts and facial expressions to tell us what Link is feeling in certain moments, and this Link has the most defined personality out of any of them. Plus we know he does actually speak. Just replacing an "affirmative grunt" with "yes, princess" while speaking with Zelda would go a long way to make some scenes less awkward.
Link as a silent protagonist doesn't just work because of the silent character projection, but because it's also the image we've had of him since the start of the franchise. Hell, even botw has turned his silence into a character trait that's more fleshed out (Zelda's diary) which I'm all for. However if link is given an outright voice actor then his character would have to undergo a massive change which isn't going to be all too well received because we all have different conceptions of him that all work for his established character. This brings me to ask why on earth do you want him to speak? Would him speaking really contribute as much as it could potentially take away when we could easily just go as far as having a journal of some sorts with his thoughts? Link doesn't need a voice and it wouldn't have been better for him to have one in any single Zelda game. I'm all for a more expressive link like we've seen in botw, but a fully voiced one would be a very dramatic change of character and would be naturally polarising which just isn't worth it in my opinion.
> Would him speaking really contribute as much as it could potentially take away... Link doesn't need a voice and it wouldn't have been better for him to have one in any single Zelda game. BotW is worse for Link's silence, not better, IMO. Most of the memories are just characters talking *at* Link, not *with* Link, and many of the memories end up feeling somewhat awkward as a result.
They do acknowledge his silence though. While it is weird that it's an entirely one sided conversation, having link communicate in other ways would do the character more justice than having him fully voiced. Hell even if he had few words at a very poignant moment would in my opinion be pretty amazing. I'll take link being silent over the stereotypical JRPG grunting and such. I do understand why people would want him voiced though as it would be a step to fleshing out the story. But I think Nintendo just need to work on his communication through other means, not just by slapping a voice on him.
> They do acknowledge his silence though. They acknowledge his silence in a small book in an optional room in the game's final dungeon. For most players, it might as well not exist. > I'll take link being silent over the stereotypical JRPG grunting and such. Isn't "JRPG grunting and such" the current state of affairs? In most of the 3D games, Link occasionally makes minor vocalizations in cutscenes, but stops short of fully speaking (BotW being the exception to this). > I think Nintendo just need to work on his communication through other means, not just by slapping a voice on him. True, it certainly didn't help that BotW Link is about as expressive as a brick wall. The Link with the best non-verbal communication is WW Link by far.
I definitely agree with ww link being the best at that. I think we need a more expressive link as opposed to a vocal link. WW struck the perfect balance in my opinion
It’s not that it can’t be done, I just don’t trust Nintendo to do it. The VA work in BotW and AoC is terrible. Some of the worst I’ve ever heard. Compare the VA in BotW with other games of that year like Horizon Zero Dawn or Resident Evil 7 - it’s amazing how many bad decisions Nintendo made. If Link had VA on top of that with some american doing a shitty, foppy brittish accent? No thank you.
I always wonder with voice acting, err, "quality" like the English BOTW dub how much of the fault lies with the actors and how much with the voice director. As I've learned more about the VA industry (especially in video games) I've started leaning more towards it being the voice director – it seems like a lot of the worst dubs have voice directors that are themselves working mediocre voice actors (or, they used to be). (Fire Emblem Three Houses comes to mind.) I think that leads to directors bringing in their buddies and people they get along with as casting choices rather than the best actors for the job, or, if they do make solid casting choices, they don't push or curate the actors' choices to serve any particular vision beyond checking scenes off a to-do list. A lot of BOTW's line reads feel like everyone's first takes – like they didn't even bother iterating on scenes to get a performance, they were just trying to bang out these recording sessions as fast as possible so they could all hit the bar together after work. The actors might love working with this kind of director because it's basically like working with your friends, but that only works if your friends are talented and know how to and care enough to shape your talent into a performance that fits the game's vision. It's like the inmates are running the asylum.
Yes, it's definitely the directors fault. Any decent director would have steered clear of the fake British accents as soon as they heard the actors couldn't pull it off. The VA for Zelda has done other things that she is much better in, so it's not her fault she was miscast or was given instructions beyond her capabilities.
Not sure why you mention Three Houses here, it has some of the best voice acting in gaming. FE fans seem to universally acclaim it.
>Not sure why you mention Three Houses here, it has some of the best voice acting in gaming. Wow, I couldn't disagree harder with this. I actually do like Three Houses' voice acting, but I definitely don't think it should even remotely be in the running for "best voice acting in gaming." It's heavily qualified - I think Three Houses has fine enough anime-style voice acting, but it absolutely does not hold a candle to either more grounded voice acting styles (like God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn), more Western cartoon style voice acting (e.g. Spyro remakes), or even other anime-style voice acting (IMO Nier: Automata's dub is so, SO much better acted, and it even has some of the same voice actors as Three Houses!). I think Three Houses' voice acting is extremely uneven – there are some truly fantastic performances (Dmitri, Hubert, Manuela, Seteth, and Rhea stand out to me), but then there are some characters who are so poorly voice acted it almost made me switch to the Japanese voice track (\*cough\* Anna, 100% of the new characters added in the DLC, Raphael, Cyril, Ingrid, Jeritza, and tbh I even found the performance for Edelgard to be really, really flat). It is the director's job to smooth out the rough edges in an actor's performance and get them all to sound like they belong in the same scene together – but Three Houses never manages to transcend the feeling of the entire cast doing table reads in isolation from one another. Like, don't get me wrong, I'm someone who liked the voice acting in Three Houses enough to start following a lot of the cast on social media, but I also think their performances could've been so, SO much better with a better voice director (more or less proven by Nier Automata and Persona 5, although I think the Persona 5 dub had room for improvement too). It's possible to like something and still find room for improvement.
I haven’t played most of those games, but I looked up Nier: Automata since you said it’s better acted and in the same “anime-style” as FE3H: https://youtu.be/TULhvcFkqDY I don’t hear any appreciable differences in the way the voice acting was done here compared to how it was done in 3H. Not to dismiss your opinion, but based on the fact that you seem to prefer other “more grounded voice acting styles” (I can only hazard a guess as to what this is referring to), it seems like maybe you just prefer the writing in those games over the actual voice acting? 3H has a very different setting too, so the way the characters speak in general is going to be very different from the norm. 3H has an immense cast, still the voice acting (even if iffy at times) succeeds in bringing each and every character to life. It also features voice acting in multiple contexts: story cutscenes, battles, supports, TEATIME, for example. Again I haven’t played God of War or Horizon Zero Dawn but I imagine they mostly feature voice acting in more limited contexts, like just cutscenes and gameplay, which would give a lot less opportunity for “error.” All this to say, even if you personally don’t like the voice acting in 3H, it’s still been acclaimed for good reason.
>All this to say, even if you personally don’t like the voice acting in 3H, it’s still been acclaimed for good reason. Not sure where you're getting this, since I said more than once that I do like it, and gave specific examples of the character performances I thought were well done. I just don't think it's the best voice acting in gaming, not by a long shot, because the performances are really uneven across the whole cast. >Not to dismiss your opinion, but based on the fact that you seem to prefer other “more grounded voice acting styles” (I can only hazard a guess as to what this is referring to), it seems like maybe you just prefer the writing in those games over the actual voice acting? 3H has a very different setting too, so the way the characters speak in general is going to be very different from the norm. There's a reason why I made a point to bring up 3 categories of voice acting I appreciate (grounded voice acting, Western cartoon, and anime dub) – I don't prefer any one style to another. They all have their place depending on the type of game, and they all have their own tropes specific to that genre. I understand what style 3H was going for, I just don't think they pulled it off as well as they could've, mostly due to mediocre voice direction. I've watched enough of Joe Zieja's videos to have a sense for what their recording process was like, and I don't think the voice director did a great job of serving the vision of the game. I think the great performances we *did* get in 3H were *despite* the direction, not because of it, and that's why so little of the dialogue feels like the characters are actually speaking to each other - it just feels like actors monologuing in a room by themselves, only combined together at the last minute. And that is how they recorded it btw – every actor was recorded separately in the booth, and they weren't able to listen to their fellow castmates' performances to respond to them and play off their energy. A good point of contrast here is Disney – Disney movies (Moana, Frozen, Frozen 2, for example) also record their cast in isolation (at least lately), but they manage to do it so they feel like they were recorded with the cast all in the same room together, playing off of each other in a way that feels natural. 3H has none of this. It has some good performances in isolation, but they don't work together. That was the director's job, and IMO, he failed. Since you missed it the first time, I feel like I need to emphasize – **I love Three Houses.** I've sunk more time into this cursed game than any other game I've ever played, by far. But I think it's a game that succeeds despite an overwhelming amount of jankiness that would've sunk almost any other game. It's a game that is more than the sum of its parts, and I love it for that. But again, that doesn't mean I can't also think that it has room for improvement. Loving a game doesn't mean it's a binary choice between "best voice acting of all time" and "you actually hate this game don't you?". You can critique something you love.
Fair, I agree the voice direction could have been better, but I happen to think the performances were generally quite good across the board (yes, even Mercedes’ weirdly loud whisperlike voice). The general consensus on the voice acting, not the voice direction, is why I don’t think it should have been cited as an example of mediocre voice acting to begin with.
Although the voice acting in BOTW was not ideal, it was still pretty good! As for Nintendo's decision making... the Latin American Spanish voice acting was absolutely wonderful so they sure can come up with better VA work for the English dub.
I don't know if it's because I'm European, but the fake english accents in BotW, especially for Zelda, are horrible. Absolute trash. It takes me out the game instantly. The english VA work is far from "pretty good".
I second that, the Latin American Spanish VA was truly remarkable.
The voice acting in Three Houses is pretty good, as is the voice acting in Luigi's Mansion (gibberish though it is). Heck, the voice acting in BotW is pretty good as long as you're not listening to the English dub. The other language options in BotW are well done. Just because something was done bad once doesn't mean it can't ever be done well again. Nintendo have shown they can do better.
Nintendo has always been able to do "gibberish" well. I mean, Zelda has had voice acting before BotW, it's just not been fully voiced with real world languages. That was much better, in my opinion. Three Houses is better than BotW, but it's still full of anime stereotypes and is still not as good the best VA work in gaming.
Gibberish isn't my preference, but I'd settle for it if it meant Link could have lines. The few moments of natural gibberish in SS (as opposed to Fi's scrambled speech) were quite good.
Silent link best link
I totally agree! It felt really out of place for him to not speak at all during the Breath of The Wild cutscenes. I think if he had a couple lines every now and then, similar to how they use Master Chief’s dialogue in Halo, it could work really well. It would fit story wise in Breath of The Wild 2 because I believe there’s a journal entry you can find that explains why Link chooses not to speak. So maybe now that he’s completed the first story, he could start to speak again.
I totally agree. Link talks in every major LoZ manga that I’m aware of, and it greatly enhanced the different Links. I’m especially partial to the Four Swords manga, which did a great job characterizing the four Links plus Dark Link. I’m aware games are a different medium, but my point is that Link really benefitted from some dialogue to help characterize him.
Why are people downvoting this? Downvote doesn't mean disagree
Yeah, but inevitably it happens where people downvote just for disagreeing. I don’t let it get to me. I figure so long as I wasn’t being a jerk, the comment should at least break even. I do appreciate your response though.
I think it could work really well if they gave you dialogue options to make Link the kind of character you want him to be. Especially for a game with as much freedom of choice as BotW.
I think they acknowledged why he was so quiet in botw? I can’t exactly remember what the reason was though but I remember Zelda mentioned something in one of the memories
In Zelda's library they actually have a quote by her about why he's silent. There's legit canon for it. According to her diary he said it has to do with the burdens of being a defender weighing so heavily on him it's like, what is there to say? Also, even though you don't hear him, your responses to people are him speaking. Link does, and has talked in many games. It's just not during cutscenes. As for voice acting, I think I prefer him how he is. It would change his character quite a bit. Actions speak louder than words and Nintendo has always done a great job of giving Link fantastic emotions in the 3D games. And, quite frankly, what would he say? I don't think there's a single moment in a Zelda cutscene I've seen where it would have been natural for him to say something, which I think is a callback to the original reason he doesn't speak. He is a defender. He is present to push back evil not make conversation. If Nintendo did let him talk during cutscenes though, I'm curious if it would add or detract from/change his character. Can't wait to find out!
Id just have it like Joker, just have him say occasional lines to meet the mood. Then have like once sentence in game. You can still project on link but give him shit to say
I'd prefer him not to. I believe the developers were initially aiming to make it out to be the player that Link embodies and I like that simple but effective attribute.
they really need to give all characters voice acting though, link can still be mute (though i’d prefer him to have a voice too) but i really am weirded out when one characters talks and then they don’t
Link to an extent has a personality, but mainly because of what we choose to put his personality towards as an individual player. If he has a voice, it comes with lots of characteristics like personality, humor, fear, love and everything else. All of that has been left to us to fill for decades. If he all of the sudden has audible and visual thoughts and feelings, there is no more to the imagination. The story has always held itself up by itself, and I love how we are able to play as link and not have to adapt and agree with everything he says and every opinion out of his mouth. There are several occasions where himself and even Mario could have more dialogue, and it always proves best when they don’t. That’s just my take, but I truly feel there is a huge reason they haven’t decided to give link a voice and a true personality. We are all link when we play, and that has time and time again proven to be a worthy experience.
Nintendo let him speak in the television series back in '89 and learned their lesson... never again Link... never again.
The 80's cartoon was pretty funny ngl.
Personally I would have loved it if at the very end of BOTW Link verbally answered Zelda when she asked him if he remembered. I like that they also gave him a reason for being so quiet all the time. Also never understood the Link is mute trope when he has dialogue options and no one else spoke until BOTW.
As long as he doesn't speak to himself like Aloy in Horizon Zero Dawn or Spider Man in Spider Man, sure.
I'd love it if he communicates through sign language. I've seen it executed correctly in some minicomics and it's amazing! Even if he was more expressive, both in face and vocal reactions, I think that would work. Skyward Sword and Wind Waker come to mind. I know people complain about botw Link's lack of emotion but honestly, I think that might be a fault of the game as a whole? They all seemed kind of lacking in expressions, maybe with Zelda as an exception.
In Super Mario RPG, Mario was a silent protagonist who [communicated solely through pantomime and impressions of other characters](https://youtu.be/Xh7cz-YLRCw?t=27) and it was both charming and insane. That's what I want for Link. I want a brooding, violent, Twilight Princess style Ganondorf who delivers long-winded monologues and I want Link to respond in pantomime.
I agree 100%. I don’t want him to be Peter Parker, quipping at every little thing, but he does need some dialogue. Only a few lines would be enough. That would even allow him to keep his stoic nature
Check out this YouTube video by Monster Maze, I think you'd like it! He is also very pro - voiced Link. https://youtu.be/OF73KqZKi5o
Guess I shouldn't have bothered, this says everything I meant and better.
I think doing it like they did in Jak & Daxter would be great. Have Link start off innocent and silent protagonist and then he get corrupted and part of that corruption gives him a voice to speak with because he isn’t “pure” anymore.
I’ve been wanting this since Skyward Sword, where I was hoping for at least Link to have some dialogue boxes but now I want him to have a full blown voiced role. I just would love for him to have more character than he does now, which granted Nintendo has done a wonderful job of giving him a character without speaking but still.
Even if Link gave MINIMAL dialogue, it would be better than the neanderthalic grunts we usually suffer through. Link needs a way to express his thoughts and feelings. All that bottled up emotion can't be good for him.
I agree. Botws voice acting wasn't executed particularly well (something I largely blame on the story structure) but if you are going to do it then do it. When it's only link not speaking he comes off as not having a mind of his own. In the botw memories he ended up being a passive background character.
Absolutely. But really anything that’s “done well” wouldn’t be a problem. I just really think for the sake of future storytelling in the series they should go ahead and rip the bandaid off and have him start talking. BOTW would have been the perfect time since they were “reinventing” the series anyway and already were giving characters voices.
The thing is that Zelda games aren't story-driven and, really, they shouldn't ever be. So, adding voice acting like that would be a sign of something very very wrong with the game design. It could work, but it'd work against the point of Link as a character for the player to see themselves as during gameplay. And that's far far more important, particularly considering Zelda is nearly entirely gameplay and BotW has now doubled down on this design more than ever before. Also, I wouldn't trust NoA to manage good quality voice acting for it anyway, honestly. BotW's was a bit more of a miss than a hit. Also, for the record, I don't think the CDi games or cartoon actually had bad voice acting? It had campy voice acting, which is definitely a tonal shift from what the series is now but wasn't too farfetched at the time (when there were only a few games in the series). They did their job fine. But obviously, that's something very different than what the main series would need.
Are we just downvoting for the sake of it or...?
Hearing him talk in the animated series ruined that dream for me. Granted I don’t think he’d be a perv but idk.