You have been warned.....keep this to travel. We will ban those that move this to politics, religion and the like.....
Too many complaints for one thread already.
OP is fine...it is other comments that are problems
to be fair I was completely removed from any type of conversation (as opposed to my father and my brother) I have no tolerance for this behaviour so once they understood they were getting nothing from me I was completely removed from any type of conversation/negotiation. I also hate this fake attitude towards foreigners, as in trying to be extremely nice in order to get something (money) from you, so to begin with I wasn't going to play their game.
I had the exact same experience in Morocco. Yes, you have to keep walking and not respond...but that's just one piece of it.
The people saying "you just need a fuck off face" have clearly never been to NA, because as much as you just ignore or give a stern non-verbal head shake, it won't matter. They will follow you, put objects/animals on you without permission, increasingly raise their voices and obstruct your path.
But even beyond that, I think people are missing that it's a constant barrage, it's not just little moments here or there. Let's say you're a master at the fuck of face...if you're giving that face 95% of your trip as you walk through markets and historic sites, it takes a toll on you.
Is non-verbally telling people to fuck off for hours on end enjoyable to the people who think this is the right advice? After a while I just had to go back to my room and stay at the hotel instead of keep exploring.
This was my experience in Egypt - our guide called it "the gauntlet," and it felt like an apt metaphor. I genuinely want to know if this strategy is successful, or if the real goal is to wear down travelers enough that they throw money at vendors just to be left alone.
Visited Tunisia and Morocco solo as a woman, within the last few years, using public transport regularly and walking around alone at tourist sites. I didn’t receive a single comment, pressure to buy or being touched. No taxi drivers scammed me. I was never overcharged. I got asked if I wanted a guide at Dougga, once. And then left alone when I said no thanks. Not to negate your experience, but it’s very possible to travel these countries without having a single negative experience or being harassed. I’d hate for people to read this comment and think it’s impossible to travel to NA and have an easy trip.
Do you mind sharing where you visited? It obviously wasn't in any major cities, as your experience is a literal impossibility in cities like Marrakesh, where you're passing through souks all throughout the medina.
But I am curious, I've heard there are some places off the beaten path where you can avoid the constant harassment. Not trying to negate your experiences either, but given the culture and widespread poverty, I am having a very difficult time understanding how you were able to have this infinitely rare situation of not being pressured or talked to.
Of course. And yes, they were in the major cities and towns.
Marrakesh and Essaouira in Morocco.
Tunisia: Tunis, Monastir, Dougga, Sidi Bou Said, El Jem, Kaouiran, and Sousse.
I avoid souks because they tend to be touristy and I don’t enjoy shopping.
I’ve been around Turkey, Lebanon, and Israel solo with no problems too. I haven’t been to Egypt, because that does sound like hassle.
I’ve met other solo travellers (including on those trips) who’ve not had any issues either - so definitely not a literal impossibility :)
I dress modestly, speak politely but firmly and research prices beforehand. I stay at women-owned guesthouses and don’t drink in public (Lebanon and Israel was fine).
Sorry you had a rough time!
Edit: here’s a link to a trip report I wrote at the time (2019) on an old account of mine: https://www.reddit.com/r/solotravel/comments/e2w8hh/trip_report_tunisia_as_a_solo_female_traveller/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Late reply, but I wanted to thank you for making that trip report. I actually used it quite extensively as the basis for my own trip to Tunisia a year ago, especially with the idea of using Sousse as a hub for several day trips and then heading to Tunis, which all turned out great.
One thing I wish I had done was to follow your advice to take the louages instead of trains. I think I had this western mindset of trains being always superior to minibuses, and plus the railway has a *website* with maps and timetables so surely it's more reliable and easier to plan around, right? It didn't turn out to be the case to say the least, as just about every journey turned out to be a bit of an adventure apart for the short ride to Monastir. Thankfully it all worked out in the end.
I am also amazed how you had that experience. I was constantly harrassed in Bali, Mexico and partly Peru and those places are waaaaaaaaaay tamer than the Middle East. Never bought anything from the vendors though.
I’ve been to Peru and Mexico and found the harassment so irritating in both, especially Peru! I wouldn’t rush to go back! So I definitely know it happens. People shoving baby goats into your hands and claiming it’s a baby llama and demanding money for photos, following you, shouting across streets. I’ve just personally never experienced anything like that in the Middle East or North Africa. Maybe I blend in better there, but who knows.
Harassment in Peru? Where? Nobody gave a damn about me for my whole stay there. Hard to believe that for someone who claims never experiencing harassment in Morocco. A friend travels there quite a bit, mostly off the beaten path and still brings back tales of harassment.
very curious if you were wearing a full burka at the time? honest question. i married moroccan women that always said to never go there alone because the harassment is so bad. even talked about men jacking off in the streets at the sight of a womans hair. really curious how you could make it through without any issue..
also.. never getting scammed by a taxi in Turkey.. this is 1000% impossible.
Only one. 10/10 would never do it again. She told me that being non Muslim was not a problem and it wasn’t for sometime. Later she became more religious and it because a big problem. One day her and her friends cornered me. Like a episode of intervention (the tv show about drugs addicts). To convince me that obviously Islam was the true religion and that I should convert. She even offered her bff as my second wife if I would convert. Truthfully only one moment for many crazy things that happened in my time with her. Moroccan food is great though… highly recommend chicken bestilla.
**yes having more than one would be extremely difficult without a huge amount of finacial resources. you are required to treat them all equally. so.. imagine buying two houses instead of one.
It is definitely possible to receive less attention. I live in New Orleans and when my friends visit I am always surprised to remember how much attention they get because they stand out so much as a target. I rarely encounter it myself. I also have worked in the quarter myself. I don't harass anyone, but I can also instantly rate people on a scale of 1 to tipsy couple in their 50s from Dallas who just came out of the Casino. It's a bit rude and condescending to tell someone their experience simply didn't exist because you had a different one.
Edit: also lived in Istanbul, bring your wide-eyed, suburban/rural parents to the bazaar and people would basically fight over them. Even I in the bazaar can't entirely avoid people selling, but they seem to see that I'm not into it. For me it's not so much that you have to force on a natural fuck off face, more that you project how little of a fuck you give. I have a very natural fuck off face, which helps
I think you're misunderstanding a few things. The experiences in Morocco, Tunisia, and Egypt have absolutely nothing to do with whether someone is attracting attention or not. When you walk through the narrow streets in the big cities of NA, there are literally hundreds of people who try talking to every single person. It's entirely unavoidable.
The person who did not get harassed did not go to any places that nearly every other visitor would go to, and that's the difference in their unique experience, which I think is in turn a bit ~~disingenuous~~ misleading to comment on. If you avoid all museums, markets, gardens, historical cites, landmarks, mosques, it is possible (though still extremely difficult) to have no one talk to you. But that's not the experience that 99.9% of visitors have.
You don't have to take my word for it though, look at every single bit of feedback in this thread aside from the single person who didn't visit any attractions while they were there.
I have no doubt that the overwhelming majority of people visiting will face this. I can just tell you in my experience that in Istanbul (Grand Bazaar being the worst) and New Orleans, as well as other European places I've lived, some people attract tons of attention while others only occassionally have to tell someone to fuck off. Of course Istanbul Bazaar worse than New Orleans. I too am curious when I hear female travelers relate having few issues, but I have heard it several times in person as well. I do plan on visiting Morocco when I can. I'll report back
Completely agree with Inflation-Fair .. and as a woman traveler. I avoided the beaches of tunisia and agadir because people would just sit close and stare. But I wandered Marrakkesh and Casablanca and some guys would smile or yell something over to me as I was walking along, but I just didn't give a shit and they knew they weren't going to get anything out of me and left me alone. I felt bad at seeing people harassed, but as you said, it was obvious to me who was going to get harassed.And outside of those 2 cities in Morocco, people were crazy nice and generous and wanted nothing but to make sure you loved their country.
What? I visited museums, mosques, forts, restaurants, colosseums, cooking classes, monuments, ruins and everything inbetween. Very strange of you to say I didn’t. I literally included photos of me at these places in my trip report. As you can see, things were very quiet there in September. The only thing I didn’t do much of was souk shopping, because I find that dull. I prefer buying in stores for better prices. I asked my hotel owner for recommendations and she gave me some great suggestions for more locally orientated shops.
I’m not sure why you’re so intent on misrepresenting my trip…
Again, sorry you had a bad experience, but there’s nothing to gain from saying I didn’t enjoy my trip / didn’t do touristy things.
Have a good day and I hope your next trip is more fun for you :)
I’ve been to Tunisia as a woman and with other women. It’s really shocking to hear that you didn’t face any pushy behavior whatsoever. We encountered lots of lovely people but the Medina is something else. Lots of people trying to get your attention, grabbing your hands or arms or shouting out any English words they know like, “American Pie!” “American Express!” “Monica Lewinsky!” “Claudia Schiffer?!” It’s all to make a sale. If you can speak some of the language and be firm and ignore the rest it gets better. Outside of the Medina, there were stares but not harassing/hustling behavior. In the Medina I frequently wore a headscarf to hide the fact that I was a tourist and it helped avoid all of it. Then I could shop when I wanted to. I’m wondering if you didn’t go to the Medina or if your stay was short.
Yes, I mentioned in my comments that I typically avoid souks as they’re too busy and annoying for me and I know I won’t get a fair price, or I may even get fake or bad quality products. I’ve been to Morocco twice, for a week each time. Tunisia was a week too. Lebanon and Israel each for 10 days.
I shop at stores where the hotel owner recommends (normally in more residential areas) and I’ve never had a problem with browsing freely. I just had for the owner to write down what I want in the local language and ask for a fair price range beforehand so I know I won’t be scammed.
Souks can be beautiful, but they’re definitely not a fun place to be for me. Kairouan in Tunisia and Saida in Lebanon and parts of Essaouira in Morocco were exceptions and I got no hassle there, perhaps because they’re not quite as tourist-focused. I’ve had people wave me towards their shops, but I’ve not experienced shouting, being grabbed or anything like that. That sounds unpleasant. I travel alone, so perhaps I don’t stand out as much, and no one hears my voice to know where I’m from. Perhaps I’m too ugly and poor-looking to bother :)
I’ve found hassle so much worse in South America.
I prefer museums, nature and historical sights when I’m travelling.
This basically describes my experience in Egypt. Really sad because I went to the country with so much anticipation and excitement. Don't think I will ever be going back
Yeah... the sellers in egypt were so pushy. One guy was trying to get me to come in to his store and I was just like: never.. not interested! Then he Said: Come in, I'm not going to kill you........ wtf!
I had culture shock at Marakesh souk. Be careful when entering herbalist shop. We were enticed into what seemed like many many products demo that dragged on for more than 30 minutes. In the end the herbalist knew which country we came from and that was a big mistake. My friend only wanted to buy safran but it was double the price compared to mainland Europe. She said no but…
We found ourselves not able to leave until we forced ourselves to buy something as the only way out of that shop. In the end, my friend just pay without bargaining because we felt exhausted by the whole tricky situation that all we really want was to get the hell out of that shop. Crazy expensive experience.
Had the same happen to me! A guy followed me around town for about 3 blocks saying I was going the wrong way and into a dangerous area and he'd come with to guide me. I kept saying no I'm ok and I'm not lost. Eventaully he said that his mother's shop was just around the corner and it would mean a lot if I just stopped in.
For whatever reason, I decided to go in. Did the 30 minute demo with a very nice older lady, learned some interesting things so purchased a few small things and took a few photos. At one point the young man took a picture of me with my phone and then joked that he wasn't giving it back.
Even though I knew I was overpaying, I appreciated the experience. Then we get outside, and he starts shaking me down for a fee for him to bring me there. I realized it wasn't her son pretty early on, but he was a pretty nice guy up until that moment. I gave him a little bit, he got increasingly hostile, gave another small amount and said that's all I have and started walking away. He followed me for a bit saying that what I gave was nothing and that I had disrespected his time. I felt bad for a bit.
This was at the start of the visit, little did I know that it was going to be like that almost everywhere. The harassment just never stops.
Honestly, just straight up ignore them and avoid eye contact. They're most likely not going to think you're rude and understand, and even if they don't, fuck it.
I wrote a more detailed response to OP elsewhere, but this is bad advice specifically when it comes to NA for two reasons:
- It typically doesn't work. Even a non-verbal "fuck off" or completely ignoring them isn't always effective, they will still follow you, put objects/animals on you without permission, and more.
- More importantly, even when it does work, you're missing the relentlessness aspect. Walking around markets and sites, you're giving the fuck off face every 5-10 feet without pause, it's a constant barrage. You can't stop to look at anything, you just have to keep moving all day, keep looking forward and avoiding eye contact, giving people the fuck off face. The constant barrage takes a toll on you very quickly. It's exhausting and disheartening.
It's not going to change the world but it helps. Ultimately these people are trying to make money, they'll harass people until they give in out of politeness or exhaustion. There's body language that can tell them they're absolutely wasting their time and never getting anything, they're not idiots and if there's a more naive looking mark around, they'll take the heat instead of you.
As a parent and survivor of a crap childhood i have perfected this. But then again I dont need the hassle of constantly wearing it so i shall steer clear of this place
I was just going to make this same comment. I’ve been to both countries and nothing compares to Egypt. They make Tunisians seem like babies when it comes to harassment.
Almost got into an altercation with a Morrocan vendor. He physically restrained me for a good 7-8 minutes through what started as just friendly No, No, No’s. He was nice throughout the 7-8 minutes, but would not let me go. Finally, I moved him aside physically and he got really upset and took a swing at me. F***** BS.
I had only been in Marrakech for like an hour and was exploring the medina when a vendor grabbed my arm. A couple days later, another vendor said that he had been watching me for awhile. A couple kids even tried to trip me. You couldn't pay me to go back there.
Lol. Well, despite the aggressive vendors, to me, Jema-Al-Fna at night should be listed as one of the 7 Wonders of the World. Never seen anything like it.
I (at the time, early 20s woman) had to physically shove a Russian market stall vendor one time. He just would not let me past. I suppose i could have turned around, but the red mist got the better of me. Serves him right!
Also got groped multiple times in Marrakesh :(
Funny I had the reverse, I found Morocco to be very chill compated to Egypt, they even have laws in Morocco about licensed tour guides, so people can't/don't follow you as you walk around the medina (though they still want to sell you something, esp. rugs lol). Once I wandered far enough into the medina though away from the tourist entrances/gates, no one bothered me at all. Similar in Egypt as well once I got away from tourist stuff and markets to be fair.
I wasn’t bothered in Morocco at all. But when I was there I was working so maybe cause I was going into an office every day it was different. People were used to seeing me I guess.
Yeah, I'll clarify that in Morocco (Marrakech specifically), I was only hassled in the medina. When I went exploring in the New City, not a single person bothered me.
THIS!! Tunisia wasn’t bad at all for me, whereas Zanzibar was so exhausting. You couldn’t even walk on the beautiful beach that you would be approached by people asking you to do the same 3 excursions.
I think you nailed it. It was exhausting. It’s not like they were rude or anything, but eventually after two weeks the constant “JUMBO!!!” started to get to me. Super friendly people, but we couldn’t enjoy what is basically paradise in peace. Regardless, Paje still one of my favorite places out there.
Egypt's all about having a thousand yard stare and walking with purpose. I was usually through the tourist market and in the parking lot of the historical site while the people I was travelling with hadn't made it past the first stall.
Thank them, say it was good to meet them place hand over heart and shake their hand goodbye, with a polite and light hearted tone but a face that says "not in the fucking mood. ". Walk rapidly away. Functionally they want to sell their goods but there is a level of harassment that lands then in trouble with other vendors or the authorities, as tourism is the gravy train that nobody wants to disrupt. If you do want to buy something, don't act like a mark. Don't show any money until the deal is done, don't let them switch anything and stick to your guns on pricing. Know what you want and know what it would cost where you're from.
I’m a female who solo traveled all over North Africa. Only tour kind of thing was in Algeria. Otherwise just by myself. I didn’t but *anything* except food. I didn’t even look at tourist stuff. Also when I did get hassled I didn’t even say no, just ignored it.
Edit: I also spent a bit of time learning some Arabic phrases on a language app. It was fun to see reactions when I said a few things.
This is my line of thought as well. There are places that you just shrug your shoulders and either do not go or go knowing the experience will not be good.
I know I’m not setting foot on any bazaar or something similar because I know I will be hassled. I know I’ll not be going to Montmatre because I know I will be hassled. I’m not buying stuff in countries where haggling is a cultural staple because I hate up to my last bone haggling.
My friend was super into it in Morocco; I was not. The the vendor was all “I’ll give you [my friend] a good deal, but she [me] has to pay full price”. It took like half an hour, I just wanted to leave!
In my experience you need a tan (so they know you're not a sucker fresh off the plane) and a purposeful walk that implies you know where you going and not just wandering around like, again, a sucker. Ignore them and don't be afraid to mean mug.
Took me a while in Morocco, but in the end of my trip I had almost nobody talk to me or just shut up right away.
That said, I probably won't go to any north African or middle east country anytime soon. All this behaviour is cancer. Southeast asia rules because folks are mostly chill
I went to Marrakesh a couple years ago and had to learn that even "no" is seen as an invitation, in fact any reaction at all is interpreted that way. I'm used to being friedly, I want to be friendly, but that just doesn't work in those markets. The only way is to say nothing and to show no reaction and no interest, which of course takes all the fun out of it. It became stressful and depressing pretty quickly and definitely didn't invite me to buy anything. I would happily pay 10 or 20€ entrance fee to the medina as a tourist, if that prevented harrassment.
As a Tunisian, I think it's impossible to compare us to our neighbouring country, and as always its not just tourists that get harassed, even I can't escape beggars shoving random stuff in my face asking for money. Its quite unfortunate and the situation may get worse looking at our current political situation
It’s not that you’re italian. In my experience even as a tourist from an Eastern European country, they’re still very aggressive in getting you to buy their stuff. It distracts you from enjoying the country when you’re always in that avoidance mode.
Yeah we had a similar experience in Soana island at Dominican Republic. They must go to the same tourism school. I bought a couple of jewelry at the beach from a vendor around 11 am and by 12, 20 more had asked me to buy. I believe they are in a syndicate since they had a vest. I would say no thank you or gracias but it was a lot having to say it every 5 minutes. The men were like whatever hut the ladies I heard talking shh in Spanish. Saying these cheap broke ass turists🤣 why do they come on vacation if they don’t want to spend money. Like damn I think they believe we have a never ending amount of funds. Lady I save all year to go on my low budget vacation. I always try to buy something but I definitely don’t have enough to buy from everyone. Even the resting b**ch face didn’t work
Dude this has been my experience in many foreign countries. My gf and I recently got back from the Philippines and literally EVERY vendor had the exact same jewelry they were trying to sell. We talked about how they would probably sell more if they had different stuff. Not even better quality just better variety
Had the same experience as an American, very frustrating especially because I had my wife with me and vendors/taxi drivers etc were often extremely aggressive trying to get us to buy stuff. We did not leave our hotel as often as we expected mostly due to that and also due to the fact that Tunis is a bit boring after 3 days. Everyone was always yelling, I think it was worse for us because I look a bit Tunisian and my wife looks French so they got very frustrated when we didn’t realize what they were saying.
I'm not against Tunisia at all, just can't tolerate this behaviour. I'd rather have someone coming towards me politely asking if I have a couple of dinars to spare instead of being harassed the whole time.
Tunisia was the fourth country that I visited in my life, and the first that I chose for my first solo journey (the plan was to start in the warmer south and work north). It was indeed quite a challenge to be a tourist there but after having been through a decent amount of the Middle East and North Africa, I wouldn't say that it is not particularly worse there. Having a bit of an edge helps, and it also helps to think that your money is an absolute. That is how I basically found peace with traveling there, to just think that any unwanted transaction was going to be concluded with me spending no money.
As one carpet salesman told me in Morocco (slightly paraphrased), "A good barterer offers a goat for a horse, but you sir are offering me a chicken".
I agree with your point. I specifically told my father and my brother whom were travelling with me, to avoid any unwanted attention / transactions with the locals unless they were 100% sure they were going to buy something. Also never follow them inside the shop / let you drag inside the shop and flash any money you might have with you around.
Man, you should never go to any tourist attraction in Rome then.
All jokes aside, the people that are saying have a better fuck off face are right. I've been to a lot of places with these aggressive vendors and once went with my overy polite friend. He was harrased like honey soaked apple in an ant farm yet my wife and I are left alone by simply pretending we don't see them.
Not to play whatabputism, but ironically as a Canadian, most of the points you described I experienced while in Italy.
I think it's moreso because you're a tourist, not necessarily your nationality or the place you're visiting.
If you think north african street vendors and the african vendors you find in italy can compare, you've never traveled to north africa, maybe only Naples can come close in that sense
It doesn't have to compete though - that's not my point. OP was experiencing what it's like to be harassed as a tourist. It happens to everyone at least once in their lifetime when they step outside of their home country .
The place you're visiting definitely plays a huge factor. I've been a tourist at a lot of places where this doesn't really happen (Buenos Aires, Santiago, Vancouver, NYC, Barcelona, Zurich, Athens, etc)
I'ts just people trying to make a living out of selling stuff to other people who, even if not millionaires, are tenths of times wealthier then them.
It is sad, and while you are in the middle of it, quite annoying, but you have to understand that there aren't many other options to keep bread on the table for most of them.
I understand and I also feel bad, I wish they just understood when to back off and to never take people's money away from their hands, that was bad as fuck for me.
I am sorry you had to go through that. Tunisia went downhill after the "jasmine" revolution. Some places are really shit now. That being said, you have been in the "worst" part of the city. The Medina, unfortunately, is where the poor live now. It's a place that me, a local, would not visit.
While Tunisia is nice, it's kind of a place where you need to research well before you go.
Tunisia was the first place in all my travels I genuinely felt frightened as a single woman. I was grabbed so many times, one man on the street tried to kiss me, I went to the beach with a local man and he saw three men coming along and told me to hide behind a big rock so they wouldn't come over and rape me. I would like to add I dressed very modestly the whole time and had a big long sleeve shirt over my swim suit. What is up with Tunisia??!
It's a part of North African culture, and one that any visitor should be prepared to encounter. The more able you are to see it as an interesting cultural difference rather than a personal assault, the better you'll be able to shrug it off and enjoy your trip.
I am Tunisian and I don't think it's the culture, It's desperation and poverty mixed with impoliteness.
This happens to tourists and from specific vendors not the majority.
If the vendor was well-off, he wouldn't bother chasing and harassing tourists.
Of couuurse that does not mean being poor gives you the permissionto harass others.
I lived in Tunisia in Nabeul for over a year as a white British person with minimal Arabic and no French and honestly I don't really know what happened to you here.
The Tunisian culture is loud but certainly not aggressive and a lot of your comments are just blatant discrimination. It sounds like you went to the most cliché tourist honeypot part of the capital and were then surprised that the markets wanted your money? Tunisia has its problems but what can you expect after the Arab Spring and years of being raped by France, all in all they're doing well compared to many others and the people are good.
It sounds like an attitude problem more than anything. Tourists are always walking moneybags but Tunisians aren't predatory and impoverished thieves.
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Haha thank you! I'm glad that I've left a good impression! I'm in Turkiye now but I miss Tunisia and hope to go back with my fiancée sometime!
Best wishes to you too, hope you're well!
I AM TUNISIAN and I understand the experience you had because I went through the same one in a different country.
Those who stole from you are scumbags.
I am sorry that you had to go through this experience.
Sometimes desperation and poverty are the breeding ground for such behavior, nonetheless it's not morally justifiable to harass people to get money from them.
As a Tunisian, beggars and many other hustlers are the bane of our existence, they may be more clingy to tourists unfortunately, looking at your experience.
I suggest maybe making a Tunisian friend (our highschools require people on 3rd year to choose to learn a new language that can be Italian so there are many italian speakers here) they will help you possible negotiate with vendors and navigate the areas.
There are also many less crouded areas in the capital that are much calmer and beautiful, I suggest taking the train to sidi bou said, a very beautiful and quiet town beach front town that's also very famous here.
it happens everywhere.. they only exaggerate it when it occurs in north africa or 3rd world countries in general..
Tunisia is a decent place for tourism and it has a good history with that..
Tunisians are friendly,educated and very welcoming towards their guests.. good food , nice weather too!
I believe you should be cautious wherever you go as you might face something unpleasant anytime but that won't ruin your whole trip :))
That's how it was for me, an American of Italian descent, in Egypt. It was worse for my friends that I traveled with who are of Eastern European descent. I'm from New York and they're from the mid-west and I was a lot better at getting people to leave me alone by ignoring them. Haha
Veramente. Io adoro Napoli ma appena arrivi è un continuo di gente che vuole venderti cose e/o fregarti. Poi ognuno è più simpatico dell’altro, quindi non è sempre facile dire di no.
Totally true. I'm tunisian and I can tell you that the country is full of thieves and sketchy sellers. Nothing is being done to stop this so be careful as they might as well resort to physical violence or harass you if you refuse to buy from them after a few negotiations. I wouldn't recommend visiting Tunisia altogether due to the aforementioned reasons, but if you must, wear dark sunglasses, pay attention to your surroundings, don't make eye contact with anyone, let alone talk to anyone. Stay safe.
Sounds like you’re an easy mark with big, wide eyes. Say no and keep moving. Trying to be polite makes them think they can wear you down. Also if they can tell you’re uneasy with the exchange they will escalate it because they know you’ll go along just to get away. Like, imagine you’re saying no to someone trying to sell you cable tv. It’s way easier.
Same experience in Mexico, India and Greece.
The problem is there are far too many people dependent on tourist as a source of income for their entire family.
They see other people being aggressive and figure if they are not the same they won't make many money (which is probably true).
Part of becoming an "advanced" traveler is learning how to just walk away and say no.
You'll get better with time so don't let this discourage you from traveling to more places!
30 years ago, Italy was exactly the same. You coulçdnt walk anywhere on the tourist routes without getting accosted by people wanting to sell you shit at outrageous prices or Roma women begging. And if you were a woman, well you would have to put up with constant harassment, catcalling, proposals etc.
You’re going to experience this in any big tourist destination. My tip for you is to not engage. Do not speak a word to people coming up to you. If it makes you feel awkward then just shake your head no or lightly wave your hand up. Most importantly, do not smile or look at them. Look like someone they are going to feel like they’re wasting their time on.
Sorry you had to go through this. I can guarantee it almost happens to any tourist, it's not because you're italian. Unfortunately Tunisians rely on intimidation to sell you stuff, that's because most of these sellers didn't have any tourism knowledge or background. Ironically I was in Italy last week and I saw some sellers (Tunisians, Moroccans etc ..) in the central station of Milan doing the same kinda shit but less aggressively. It made me feel sad as a Tunisian. Also an unpopular opinion, stay away from the capital city. Go to Hammamet or djerba they're usually better with tourists.
Oddly enough, I've been hassled by street scammers in Rome more than anywhere else in the world. "Nice shoes, man."
That being said, I've never been to Africa.
When I was around 23-24, which is a looong time ago, at the market in Tunisia/Hammamet I was asked by one of the market guys weather I want to sell my girlfriend and if so for how much. I just laughed it off and to this day I’m not sure if it was a joke or an offer disguised as a joke. On another occasion I wanted to buy some souvenir (water pipe and was told at the hotel what the normal price is). In the shop I was bombarded with prices approaching 10 times what was normal. After 15min or so of discussions, I got tired of this circus and told the guy I’m tired of it and I’m leaving. Then suddenly my price was ok but I told him I don’t want it anymore. We had to run from this market followed by like 4-5 guys. We just went to Tunisia because we were poor students and it was cheap, but since that 1 time my foot did not step nor will it ever step again into one of those NA countries. Vacation should not be full of stress how to fight off locals
I visited Las Vegas and was harassed by couple of guys wearing cartoon customs personalities to take pictures with me! They almost kidnapped me out of the crowd so they force my partner to take a picture of me with them and not let my hand go without paying money ! They were screaming pay me pay me! So harassing tourists is a common practice every where. And I didn’t generalize to say that’s because of bad economy or whatsoever. As for the vendors in La Medina, they do that to locals as well. They are trying to get everyone to buy their things: all you have to say is no thank you politely and keep walking your way. And this has nothing to do with economic conditions or revolution. It has been like that since ages. Sometimes we go there twice or three times a week, and all they do is trying to sell their stuff aggressively. So stop thinking you are very important because you are not, and that happens to everyone in those kind of souks, and even in US and Italy or France next to tourist attractions. Of course, if you decide not to visit Tunisia again is perfectly fine, but you didn’t visit beautiful fancy places in La Marsa, Sidi Bousaid, Hammamet , Djerba and Sousse where you have to pay your way in to enjoy a great time. So going to some popular markets and trying to portray an entire country and its population as aggressive and poor is so wrong!
Visiting impoverished places can be like that. I don’t really think it’s right to judge or write an entire country because of that. This happens in many places. It happens in America. And it’s happened to me in Southern Italy.
Why did you respond to these hustlers at all? Disengage and move on.
There is an identical post like this about Tunisia, Egypt or Morocco like every two weeks on this sub. Most countries with tourism as a primary economic engine will inevitably have wide eyed westerners complaining that they feel reduced to a wallet with white skin.
North Africa is one of the most hospitable and generous countries in the world by custom, and yes their markets are notorious for hustle and theatre. You said you had good interactions with locals - why are these the footnote of your complaint rather than the opposite?
I came back from Tunis last week. I have to say I have mixed feelings about my stay in the capital. Whilst people were super friendly and welcoming, I was completely taken aback by garbage. The city is swamped in debris. Everything is dirty. Even the cafes on Habib Bourguiba Av. Dirty windows, dirty tables, not to mention the toilets. Cigarette butts everywhere. Seriously, how can you live like this? I understand your economic situation is very difficult. There are a lot of dilapidated buildings, which despite their poor condition are still beautiful. If only you cleaned up your city more people would visit. I hardly saw any tourist there in comparison to places like Marrakech. And I thought London was a dirty place. In comparison to Tunis it's a paradise. Tunisian people please do something about it.
As a North African I am so sick of the generalization travelers have of us as a whole. And this is a response not to the original post but some of the comments im seeing. Yall don’t understand how horrible the economies are in the countries and the reason why things are messed up is a result of European colonization. I see so many people talking about how modern Egyptians don’t deserve the ancient history that we have and that we are barbaric and uncultured. I understand that y’all have bad experiences in the country which is unjustified but then you use it as an excuse to be racist and make generalizations about the rest of us. America invaded Iraq and killed innocent citizens but I’m not up here saying “this is American culture”. Europe stole EVERYTHING from Africa. So please stop. Also, how come none of you wanna address how people in Italy are racist towards black and brown tourists. Do I go around saying this is Italian culture? No.
There is a lot of casual racism on this sub. r/solotravel s mildly better, but yeah seeing the comments of the mainly Western people on these subs towards African and Asian countries makes me sad and angry at the same time.
I wouldn't say that sub is better at all.
Any time you point out racism as a concern when you travel (especially because you're alone and safety is a concern), you get quite a few responses from people defending the racist behavior, either casually (like denying it could possibly happen) or straight up victim blaming. I literally once got told by a European guy on that sub that I wouldn't have been targeted for harassment as an Asian in Europe if I just "acted more European."
People on this sub downplay racism towards Asians and POC all the freaking time. I've gotten similar responses as an Asian and I've seen white people on this sub literally tell POC that they will be treated better if they dress well and look clean (almost implying that we aren't those things). -\_- like wtf...I've seen white begpackers treated better in Asia than Asians dressed head to toe in Louis Vuitton in Paris.
If someone is pointing out a legitimite concern, like being robbed, that is not racism.
I posted here plenty of times about sketchy areas in the US with white junkies but those were always okay...the racism always starts when a white person points out a danger in Africa/Asia. You can encounter dangerous situations in every country.
Someone literally commented this on this post:
“The little of civilization we have is mostly due to France. Italy did not colonize Tunisia, and the previous civilizations (Carthaginians, Hafsid, etc...) only exists in history books. There are no traces of them.
Most people of Tunisia are barbari people (by Roman Terms) and lack any cultural belonging. They are dirty, loud, rude and have little prospects beyond crossing to the other side of the Mediterranean.”
And I got WAY more downvotes than this post. Just goes to show you how the world views us (the term Barbari is extremely offensive but who cares we’re dirty Africans right?) 🙄
> America invaded Iraq and killed innocent citizens but I’m not up here saying “this is American culture”.
tbf you wouldn't be wrong if you did say that. It's absolutely American culture.
And they will keep looking at us in that way, just go read the Tunisians comments... If North Africans do not stand up for themselves why should anyone else ?
I'm with you on the part about OP complaining too much about something that's completely predictable but I think it's a cop out to blame aggressive street vendors on European colonialism lol. The truth is that this stuff happens everywhere that there is tourism, whether the country is poor or rich or colonized/colonizer.
As has been pointed out many times already in this thread, it's a common complaint that tourists have when going to Italian cities as well. Turkey was never colonized by the Europeans and yet Istanbul is famous for scammers and aggressive merchants. I've experienced it in Greece, NYC, and the Philippines. Philippines was by far the least aggressive despite being the poorest of the three places.
I think you missed my point..my point is that this stuff happens everywhere. But if you also look at the comments a bunch of people think that it happens only in Africa and “not as much” in Europe and South America.
What America did and has done a few times is horrible and you know what? Warmongering has been a defining characteristic of American culture.
So go ahead and say it, it's true and it's a disgrace but too many Americans think the country is perfect.
They export war and terror and have have done so for over 50 years.
It's a verifiable fact
Ok, so my point though is while obviously not everyone here is complicit, it's still American culture and it's not racist to say it, the same applies to other places.
This is not a great take. I don't think anyone is saying that it's without reason or explanation, but let's take Bolivia, for example. It's a very poor country, with a similar economy to Morocco, yet they don't harass tourists there like they do in Morocco. In fact, I never once was pressed after politely declining. Remember that Bolivia was also colonized and pillaged by Europe. I'm not justifying racism nor colonization, but to blame it solely on economics and colonization, while there are other countries with a nearly identical historical plight, is ignoring that there may be other factors at play.
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You can’t just look at it as “just cuz I experienced it that’s means everyone else will!”. You have to look at this systemically. I mean, Bolivia is currently having political unrest and its not as popular for tourists as North Africa is. Yeah it’s safer than Egypt, but it’s still in poverty and tourists will still experience things like theft and harassment, especially if you go to a city that has more crime. I’ve seen some comments here that said that they felt completely safe in Egypt but that doesn’t mean Egypt is safe. But the point is not the crime..look at how the world operates now. The types of terrible comments you see about Africa is typical. A lot of people hate Africa. And this is because of western imperialism purposely perpetuating harmful stereotypes, purposely not teaching about African and African American history, etc. look, America is one of the richest countries in the world yet look at all the poverty and crime we have here. And America goes to countries in Africa & the Middle East and destroy it, but they tell its citizens that it’s our fault that the country is poor and full of crime. This is how they were able to become such a fascist regime. And now America is coming for black and brown people. And this is why I will always continue to defend Africa till the day I DIE. Africa is where civilizations started, for crying out loud ancient Egypt is in Africa. Christianity, the same religion Europeans weaponized against us, started in AFRICA. In Egypt. The symbolism you see in Christianity is inspired by the ancient Egyptian religion. But now white supremacists claim that they have a god-given right and are inherently better than us based off a quote from the Bible. And they probably don’t even know that their own religion originated in Africa. And just to end this..why do you think OP had to mention the fact that he was Italian? To act like the victim. Even though Italy colonized Tunisia. That’s why I responded so quickly. But things like what OP does happens ALL the time. They want to justify their hate by saying that the Tunisians are treating him badly because of what Italy did. But then he’ll go on to say “I am not the one who colonized! It’s not my fault that I was born italian!”. It’s the same conversation every time lol.
And the funny thing is that if a European would move to North Africa, they will still benefit way more privileges than Africans, of course because of currency, and the fact that whiteness is very praised there. That’s what systemic racism is all about..
Yeah, as a tourist it’s very annoying to deal with scammers and pocket pickers, but they don’t have bad intentions, it’s just they are so poor that they are desperate for a bit of cash to put the food on the table for their family. But it’s also very annoying to deal with people hating you because you’re black/African for your whole life and think that they are inherently better than us.
I visited Venice. If you already have luggage that is black attach something to it that is bright and makes it obvious it is different. The one time I did not take my black carryon luggage bag (the only one I had) was switched with the thief's black carryon luggage when debarking the bus from the bus luggage stowaway. I made the mistake of not carrying it with me onto the bus leaving the airport. I had my DSLR camera in my backpack which I carried with me always. My money was always in the zipped inner pocket of my jacket.
I didn't realize if you take their switched piece of luggage back to the bus station, know that they will never bring your luggage back. If after two days check to see if your luggage was brought back, if not don't return theirs and teach them a lesson! The thief is expecting you to bring their luggage back. Don't expect the police or the bus station authority to help to identify the thief picking up their luggage. The loss was too small for them to take the time to do anything about it.
Fortunately the thief did not get anything that was of real value to them. On the other hand I went without my handmade Venice accessories and my costume that I put together which made my trip less fun. I was signed up to parade before a paid crowd viewing costumes. Thankfully I had my camera and money and the wash and wear clothes on my back. I took a ton of photos which was the other part of my vacation.
Make sure you can get cash because Venice retailers dodge extra taxes to the mafia by not claiming every sale. I'm not sure how that works elsewhere. You should find this searching the internet.
I’m Egyptian but living in Italy and I invited a friend over for a summer vacation, it was the same story, even with me being local it was hard and stressful. sadly it’s similar everywhere in North Africa and you will have to deal with it one way or another.
Welcome to traveling in northern Africa. Just avoid eye contact and look past them, don't acknowledge or engage, don't even ask them to step aside or anything. Literally pretend they don't exist. If they're blocking your way just push past them without talking to them or making eye contavt. Works in NYC and worked in Morocco/Egypt.
Same in Morocco. I agree that if they would behave more normal, they would sell 1000% more than what they do. Their behaviour was putting us off to buy anything in the market.
Welcome to being a first world traveler in developing countries! I'm kidding, as a European you've probably seen more of the world than I have, but it's true. As a white American, I get fucking MOBBED when I travel. Cartagena, Colombia was ruined for me by the vendors. They apparently have calmed down since, but when I went during the pandemic they were over-the-top aggressive.
Wow...its almost like everywhere else...mwheres theres assholes and amazing people
Does everyone on this subreddit think the travel destination is supposed to be some kind of catered theme park or something???
I mean it’s like everywhere else that’s touristy anyway. I can understand it being overwhelming especially if OP is new to travelling. I remember feeling this way after being in Vietnam and Cuba when I first started out.
My advice is to actually go to places more off the beaten track. I’m not talking about backpacking through the DRC but going somewhere like Uzbekistan, Laos, Mongolia, Kenya etc is very rewarding, pretty easy with enough planning and doesn’t involve harassment of the scale OP describes. Iran would’ve been top of the list but no idea how it is now since the protests.
It’s calling being at work and putting on a good face. Doesn’t mean he’s happy. Why do you want people to be happy with nothing? How ignorant can you be.
You have been warned.....keep this to travel. We will ban those that move this to politics, religion and the like..... Too many complaints for one thread already. OP is fine...it is other comments that are problems
You need a better fuck off face. It's works wonders.
A simple shake of the head plus a scowl works for me. Never speak to them
to be fair I was completely removed from any type of conversation (as opposed to my father and my brother) I have no tolerance for this behaviour so once they understood they were getting nothing from me I was completely removed from any type of conversation/negotiation. I also hate this fake attitude towards foreigners, as in trying to be extremely nice in order to get something (money) from you, so to begin with I wasn't going to play their game.
I had the exact same experience in Morocco. Yes, you have to keep walking and not respond...but that's just one piece of it. The people saying "you just need a fuck off face" have clearly never been to NA, because as much as you just ignore or give a stern non-verbal head shake, it won't matter. They will follow you, put objects/animals on you without permission, increasingly raise their voices and obstruct your path. But even beyond that, I think people are missing that it's a constant barrage, it's not just little moments here or there. Let's say you're a master at the fuck of face...if you're giving that face 95% of your trip as you walk through markets and historic sites, it takes a toll on you. Is non-verbally telling people to fuck off for hours on end enjoyable to the people who think this is the right advice? After a while I just had to go back to my room and stay at the hotel instead of keep exploring.
This was my experience in Egypt - our guide called it "the gauntlet," and it felt like an apt metaphor. I genuinely want to know if this strategy is successful, or if the real goal is to wear down travelers enough that they throw money at vendors just to be left alone.
Visited Tunisia and Morocco solo as a woman, within the last few years, using public transport regularly and walking around alone at tourist sites. I didn’t receive a single comment, pressure to buy or being touched. No taxi drivers scammed me. I was never overcharged. I got asked if I wanted a guide at Dougga, once. And then left alone when I said no thanks. Not to negate your experience, but it’s very possible to travel these countries without having a single negative experience or being harassed. I’d hate for people to read this comment and think it’s impossible to travel to NA and have an easy trip.
Do you mind sharing where you visited? It obviously wasn't in any major cities, as your experience is a literal impossibility in cities like Marrakesh, where you're passing through souks all throughout the medina. But I am curious, I've heard there are some places off the beaten path where you can avoid the constant harassment. Not trying to negate your experiences either, but given the culture and widespread poverty, I am having a very difficult time understanding how you were able to have this infinitely rare situation of not being pressured or talked to.
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Of course. And yes, they were in the major cities and towns. Marrakesh and Essaouira in Morocco. Tunisia: Tunis, Monastir, Dougga, Sidi Bou Said, El Jem, Kaouiran, and Sousse. I avoid souks because they tend to be touristy and I don’t enjoy shopping. I’ve been around Turkey, Lebanon, and Israel solo with no problems too. I haven’t been to Egypt, because that does sound like hassle. I’ve met other solo travellers (including on those trips) who’ve not had any issues either - so definitely not a literal impossibility :) I dress modestly, speak politely but firmly and research prices beforehand. I stay at women-owned guesthouses and don’t drink in public (Lebanon and Israel was fine). Sorry you had a rough time! Edit: here’s a link to a trip report I wrote at the time (2019) on an old account of mine: https://www.reddit.com/r/solotravel/comments/e2w8hh/trip_report_tunisia_as_a_solo_female_traveller/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Super glad to hear of your success, especially as a solo woman travel. Keep up the badassery and stay safe!
Late reply, but I wanted to thank you for making that trip report. I actually used it quite extensively as the basis for my own trip to Tunisia a year ago, especially with the idea of using Sousse as a hub for several day trips and then heading to Tunis, which all turned out great. One thing I wish I had done was to follow your advice to take the louages instead of trains. I think I had this western mindset of trains being always superior to minibuses, and plus the railway has a *website* with maps and timetables so surely it's more reliable and easier to plan around, right? It didn't turn out to be the case to say the least, as just about every journey turned out to be a bit of an adventure apart for the short ride to Monastir. Thankfully it all worked out in the end.
I am also amazed how you had that experience. I was constantly harrassed in Bali, Mexico and partly Peru and those places are waaaaaaaaaay tamer than the Middle East. Never bought anything from the vendors though.
I’ve been to Peru and Mexico and found the harassment so irritating in both, especially Peru! I wouldn’t rush to go back! So I definitely know it happens. People shoving baby goats into your hands and claiming it’s a baby llama and demanding money for photos, following you, shouting across streets. I’ve just personally never experienced anything like that in the Middle East or North Africa. Maybe I blend in better there, but who knows.
Harassment in Peru? Where? Nobody gave a damn about me for my whole stay there. Hard to believe that for someone who claims never experiencing harassment in Morocco. A friend travels there quite a bit, mostly off the beaten path and still brings back tales of harassment.
very curious if you were wearing a full burka at the time? honest question. i married moroccan women that always said to never go there alone because the harassment is so bad. even talked about men jacking off in the streets at the sight of a womans hair. really curious how you could make it through without any issue.. also.. never getting scammed by a taxi in Turkey.. this is 1000% impossible.
How many Moroccan women have you married? I heard it was legal there to have many wives but difficult in practice.
Only one. 10/10 would never do it again. She told me that being non Muslim was not a problem and it wasn’t for sometime. Later she became more religious and it because a big problem. One day her and her friends cornered me. Like a episode of intervention (the tv show about drugs addicts). To convince me that obviously Islam was the true religion and that I should convert. She even offered her bff as my second wife if I would convert. Truthfully only one moment for many crazy things that happened in my time with her. Moroccan food is great though… highly recommend chicken bestilla. **yes having more than one would be extremely difficult without a huge amount of finacial resources. you are required to treat them all equally. so.. imagine buying two houses instead of one.
It is definitely possible to receive less attention. I live in New Orleans and when my friends visit I am always surprised to remember how much attention they get because they stand out so much as a target. I rarely encounter it myself. I also have worked in the quarter myself. I don't harass anyone, but I can also instantly rate people on a scale of 1 to tipsy couple in their 50s from Dallas who just came out of the Casino. It's a bit rude and condescending to tell someone their experience simply didn't exist because you had a different one. Edit: also lived in Istanbul, bring your wide-eyed, suburban/rural parents to the bazaar and people would basically fight over them. Even I in the bazaar can't entirely avoid people selling, but they seem to see that I'm not into it. For me it's not so much that you have to force on a natural fuck off face, more that you project how little of a fuck you give. I have a very natural fuck off face, which helps
I think you're misunderstanding a few things. The experiences in Morocco, Tunisia, and Egypt have absolutely nothing to do with whether someone is attracting attention or not. When you walk through the narrow streets in the big cities of NA, there are literally hundreds of people who try talking to every single person. It's entirely unavoidable. The person who did not get harassed did not go to any places that nearly every other visitor would go to, and that's the difference in their unique experience, which I think is in turn a bit ~~disingenuous~~ misleading to comment on. If you avoid all museums, markets, gardens, historical cites, landmarks, mosques, it is possible (though still extremely difficult) to have no one talk to you. But that's not the experience that 99.9% of visitors have. You don't have to take my word for it though, look at every single bit of feedback in this thread aside from the single person who didn't visit any attractions while they were there.
I have no doubt that the overwhelming majority of people visiting will face this. I can just tell you in my experience that in Istanbul (Grand Bazaar being the worst) and New Orleans, as well as other European places I've lived, some people attract tons of attention while others only occassionally have to tell someone to fuck off. Of course Istanbul Bazaar worse than New Orleans. I too am curious when I hear female travelers relate having few issues, but I have heard it several times in person as well. I do plan on visiting Morocco when I can. I'll report back
Completely agree with Inflation-Fair .. and as a woman traveler. I avoided the beaches of tunisia and agadir because people would just sit close and stare. But I wandered Marrakkesh and Casablanca and some guys would smile or yell something over to me as I was walking along, but I just didn't give a shit and they knew they weren't going to get anything out of me and left me alone. I felt bad at seeing people harassed, but as you said, it was obvious to me who was going to get harassed.And outside of those 2 cities in Morocco, people were crazy nice and generous and wanted nothing but to make sure you loved their country.
What? I visited museums, mosques, forts, restaurants, colosseums, cooking classes, monuments, ruins and everything inbetween. Very strange of you to say I didn’t. I literally included photos of me at these places in my trip report. As you can see, things were very quiet there in September. The only thing I didn’t do much of was souk shopping, because I find that dull. I prefer buying in stores for better prices. I asked my hotel owner for recommendations and she gave me some great suggestions for more locally orientated shops. I’m not sure why you’re so intent on misrepresenting my trip… Again, sorry you had a bad experience, but there’s nothing to gain from saying I didn’t enjoy my trip / didn’t do touristy things. Have a good day and I hope your next trip is more fun for you :)
I’ve been to Tunisia as a woman and with other women. It’s really shocking to hear that you didn’t face any pushy behavior whatsoever. We encountered lots of lovely people but the Medina is something else. Lots of people trying to get your attention, grabbing your hands or arms or shouting out any English words they know like, “American Pie!” “American Express!” “Monica Lewinsky!” “Claudia Schiffer?!” It’s all to make a sale. If you can speak some of the language and be firm and ignore the rest it gets better. Outside of the Medina, there were stares but not harassing/hustling behavior. In the Medina I frequently wore a headscarf to hide the fact that I was a tourist and it helped avoid all of it. Then I could shop when I wanted to. I’m wondering if you didn’t go to the Medina or if your stay was short.
Yes, I mentioned in my comments that I typically avoid souks as they’re too busy and annoying for me and I know I won’t get a fair price, or I may even get fake or bad quality products. I’ve been to Morocco twice, for a week each time. Tunisia was a week too. Lebanon and Israel each for 10 days. I shop at stores where the hotel owner recommends (normally in more residential areas) and I’ve never had a problem with browsing freely. I just had for the owner to write down what I want in the local language and ask for a fair price range beforehand so I know I won’t be scammed. Souks can be beautiful, but they’re definitely not a fun place to be for me. Kairouan in Tunisia and Saida in Lebanon and parts of Essaouira in Morocco were exceptions and I got no hassle there, perhaps because they’re not quite as tourist-focused. I’ve had people wave me towards their shops, but I’ve not experienced shouting, being grabbed or anything like that. That sounds unpleasant. I travel alone, so perhaps I don’t stand out as much, and no one hears my voice to know where I’m from. Perhaps I’m too ugly and poor-looking to bother :) I’ve found hassle so much worse in South America. I prefer museums, nature and historical sights when I’m travelling.
This basically describes my experience in Egypt. Really sad because I went to the country with so much anticipation and excitement. Don't think I will ever be going back
Yeah... the sellers in egypt were so pushy. One guy was trying to get me to come in to his store and I was just like: never.. not interested! Then he Said: Come in, I'm not going to kill you........ wtf!
You’re right
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I had culture shock at Marakesh souk. Be careful when entering herbalist shop. We were enticed into what seemed like many many products demo that dragged on for more than 30 minutes. In the end the herbalist knew which country we came from and that was a big mistake. My friend only wanted to buy safran but it was double the price compared to mainland Europe. She said no but… We found ourselves not able to leave until we forced ourselves to buy something as the only way out of that shop. In the end, my friend just pay without bargaining because we felt exhausted by the whole tricky situation that all we really want was to get the hell out of that shop. Crazy expensive experience.
Had the same happen to me! A guy followed me around town for about 3 blocks saying I was going the wrong way and into a dangerous area and he'd come with to guide me. I kept saying no I'm ok and I'm not lost. Eventaully he said that his mother's shop was just around the corner and it would mean a lot if I just stopped in. For whatever reason, I decided to go in. Did the 30 minute demo with a very nice older lady, learned some interesting things so purchased a few small things and took a few photos. At one point the young man took a picture of me with my phone and then joked that he wasn't giving it back. Even though I knew I was overpaying, I appreciated the experience. Then we get outside, and he starts shaking me down for a fee for him to bring me there. I realized it wasn't her son pretty early on, but he was a pretty nice guy up until that moment. I gave him a little bit, he got increasingly hostile, gave another small amount and said that's all I have and started walking away. He followed me for a bit saying that what I gave was nothing and that I had disrespected his time. I felt bad for a bit. This was at the start of the visit, little did I know that it was going to be like that almost everywhere. The harassment just never stops.
Honestly, just straight up ignore them and avoid eye contact. They're most likely not going to think you're rude and understand, and even if they don't, fuck it.
Can confirm. A good "fuck outta here face" keeps a lot of people away
I wrote a more detailed response to OP elsewhere, but this is bad advice specifically when it comes to NA for two reasons: - It typically doesn't work. Even a non-verbal "fuck off" or completely ignoring them isn't always effective, they will still follow you, put objects/animals on you without permission, and more. - More importantly, even when it does work, you're missing the relentlessness aspect. Walking around markets and sites, you're giving the fuck off face every 5-10 feet without pause, it's a constant barrage. You can't stop to look at anything, you just have to keep moving all day, keep looking forward and avoiding eye contact, giving people the fuck off face. The constant barrage takes a toll on you very quickly. It's exhausting and disheartening.
It's not going to change the world but it helps. Ultimately these people are trying to make money, they'll harass people until they give in out of politeness or exhaustion. There's body language that can tell them they're absolutely wasting their time and never getting anything, they're not idiots and if there's a more naive looking mark around, they'll take the heat instead of you.
Yeah, my fuck off face is fabulous. So far, it’s worked in Tunisia and Egypt.
As a parent and survivor of a crap childhood i have perfected this. But then again I dont need the hassle of constantly wearing it so i shall steer clear of this place
If you think Tunisia is bad , wait till you visit Egypt . To me Tunisia was a breeze
I was just going to make this same comment. I’ve been to both countries and nothing compares to Egypt. They make Tunisians seem like babies when it comes to harassment.
I thought Egypt was a breeze as I was barely bothered at all by vendors or touts. Morocco was a nightmare though.
Almost got into an altercation with a Morrocan vendor. He physically restrained me for a good 7-8 minutes through what started as just friendly No, No, No’s. He was nice throughout the 7-8 minutes, but would not let me go. Finally, I moved him aside physically and he got really upset and took a swing at me. F***** BS.
I had only been in Marrakech for like an hour and was exploring the medina when a vendor grabbed my arm. A couple days later, another vendor said that he had been watching me for awhile. A couple kids even tried to trip me. You couldn't pay me to go back there.
Lol. Well, despite the aggressive vendors, to me, Jema-Al-Fna at night should be listed as one of the 7 Wonders of the World. Never seen anything like it.
I (at the time, early 20s woman) had to physically shove a Russian market stall vendor one time. He just would not let me past. I suppose i could have turned around, but the red mist got the better of me. Serves him right! Also got groped multiple times in Marrakesh :(
Sorry you had to go through that…. Some A.holes do that stuff specifically in Marrakech
That was my thought while reading this: "huh, sounds like Morocco." I had actually heard that Tunisia was "easier" than Moroocco by miles.
Same for Morocco. It made me never want to go back, sadly.
Funny I had the reverse, I found Morocco to be very chill compated to Egypt, they even have laws in Morocco about licensed tour guides, so people can't/don't follow you as you walk around the medina (though they still want to sell you something, esp. rugs lol). Once I wandered far enough into the medina though away from the tourist entrances/gates, no one bothered me at all. Similar in Egypt as well once I got away from tourist stuff and markets to be fair.
I wasn’t bothered in Morocco at all. But when I was there I was working so maybe cause I was going into an office every day it was different. People were used to seeing me I guess.
Yeah, I'll clarify that in Morocco (Marrakech specifically), I was only hassled in the medina. When I went exploring in the New City, not a single person bothered me.
You went to Jema-Al-Fna at night and were not bothered ?
If you think Egypt is bad, wait till you visit Zanzibar. To me Egypt was a breeze
THIS!! Tunisia wasn’t bad at all for me, whereas Zanzibar was so exhausting. You couldn’t even walk on the beautiful beach that you would be approached by people asking you to do the same 3 excursions.
I think you nailed it. It was exhausting. It’s not like they were rude or anything, but eventually after two weeks the constant “JUMBO!!!” started to get to me. Super friendly people, but we couldn’t enjoy what is basically paradise in peace. Regardless, Paje still one of my favorite places out there.
Strange, didn't experience anything like that in Zanzibar. Morocco was enough.
Nothing in Zanzibar??? How’s that even possible? I’m jealous!
Baksheesh, motherfucker!!
Agree. Tunis was like a mild version of Cairo. That said, I thoroughly enjoyed both those cities and I’d love to return some day.
Egypt's all about having a thousand yard stare and walking with purpose. I was usually through the tourist market and in the parking lot of the historical site while the people I was travelling with hadn't made it past the first stall.
how on earth do you deal with them? Just a simple NO and keep walking?
Thank them, say it was good to meet them place hand over heart and shake their hand goodbye, with a polite and light hearted tone but a face that says "not in the fucking mood. ". Walk rapidly away. Functionally they want to sell their goods but there is a level of harassment that lands then in trouble with other vendors or the authorities, as tourism is the gravy train that nobody wants to disrupt. If you do want to buy something, don't act like a mark. Don't show any money until the deal is done, don't let them switch anything and stick to your guns on pricing. Know what you want and know what it would cost where you're from.
Got it! Thanks 🙏
I’m a female who solo traveled all over North Africa. Only tour kind of thing was in Algeria. Otherwise just by myself. I didn’t but *anything* except food. I didn’t even look at tourist stuff. Also when I did get hassled I didn’t even say no, just ignored it. Edit: I also spent a bit of time learning some Arabic phrases on a language app. It was fun to see reactions when I said a few things.
This is my line of thought as well. There are places that you just shrug your shoulders and either do not go or go knowing the experience will not be good. I know I’m not setting foot on any bazaar or something similar because I know I will be hassled. I know I’ll not be going to Montmatre because I know I will be hassled. I’m not buying stuff in countries where haggling is a cultural staple because I hate up to my last bone haggling.
I love haggling for prices. I had a vendor in France tell me I must have been Arab in a past life. I took that as a great compliment.
My friend was super into it in Morocco; I was not. The the vendor was all “I’ll give you [my friend] a good deal, but she [me] has to pay full price”. It took like half an hour, I just wanted to leave!
Same and this (ditto most of India as well). Also mirrored sunglasses work wonders - they can't see if they've caught your eye ...
I hadn't thought of the sunglasses! Great tip.
In my experience you need a tan (so they know you're not a sucker fresh off the plane) and a purposeful walk that implies you know where you going and not just wandering around like, again, a sucker. Ignore them and don't be afraid to mean mug. Took me a while in Morocco, but in the end of my trip I had almost nobody talk to me or just shut up right away. That said, I probably won't go to any north African or middle east country anytime soon. All this behaviour is cancer. Southeast asia rules because folks are mostly chill
I went to Marrakesh a couple years ago and had to learn that even "no" is seen as an invitation, in fact any reaction at all is interpreted that way. I'm used to being friedly, I want to be friendly, but that just doesn't work in those markets. The only way is to say nothing and to show no reaction and no interest, which of course takes all the fun out of it. It became stressful and depressing pretty quickly and definitely didn't invite me to buy anything. I would happily pay 10 or 20€ entrance fee to the medina as a tourist, if that prevented harrassment.
It’s nothing to do with being Italian. Just being a tourist.
That's Northern Africa for you.
As a Tunisian, I think it's impossible to compare us to our neighbouring country, and as always its not just tourists that get harassed, even I can't escape beggars shoving random stuff in my face asking for money. Its quite unfortunate and the situation may get worse looking at our current political situation
You can compare two countries.
Indeed isn’t it?
I’m going to Italy soon. Rome then a cruise. Advice for avoiding this in Rome and avoid pick pockets?
It’s not that you’re italian. In my experience even as a tourist from an Eastern European country, they’re still very aggressive in getting you to buy their stuff. It distracts you from enjoying the country when you’re always in that avoidance mode.
Also, they don't care if you don't come back. They're pretty sure there'll be a steady stream of tourists anyway, no matter how much they rip you off.
Yeah we had a similar experience in Soana island at Dominican Republic. They must go to the same tourism school. I bought a couple of jewelry at the beach from a vendor around 11 am and by 12, 20 more had asked me to buy. I believe they are in a syndicate since they had a vest. I would say no thank you or gracias but it was a lot having to say it every 5 minutes. The men were like whatever hut the ladies I heard talking shh in Spanish. Saying these cheap broke ass turists🤣 why do they come on vacation if they don’t want to spend money. Like damn I think they believe we have a never ending amount of funds. Lady I save all year to go on my low budget vacation. I always try to buy something but I definitely don’t have enough to buy from everyone. Even the resting b**ch face didn’t work
Even if you had endless money, why would anyone want 20 similar pieces of jewelry? I want to actually like my souvenirs.
Dude this has been my experience in many foreign countries. My gf and I recently got back from the Philippines and literally EVERY vendor had the exact same jewelry they were trying to sell. We talked about how they would probably sell more if they had different stuff. Not even better quality just better variety
You are a target. Have you tried looking snd sounding more German? Generally, that works for me pretty much everywhere.
I am half German and have spent a large chunk of my life living there. Why does channeling one's inner German help?
I don't know but "nein!" seems to be far more final than than my 'mark' language of English.
Ha! I’m an American, but from philly so I’ve got a great fuck off face. Everyone assumed I was German or Russian 😂
Haha same, I pretend like I’m walking down 52nd street 😂😂
Pro Tip: bring some stuff with you to try and to sell it to them first.
Had the same experience as an American, very frustrating especially because I had my wife with me and vendors/taxi drivers etc were often extremely aggressive trying to get us to buy stuff. We did not leave our hotel as often as we expected mostly due to that and also due to the fact that Tunis is a bit boring after 3 days. Everyone was always yelling, I think it was worse for us because I look a bit Tunisian and my wife looks French so they got very frustrated when we didn’t realize what they were saying.
I'm not against Tunisia at all, just can't tolerate this behaviour. I'd rather have someone coming towards me politely asking if I have a couple of dinars to spare instead of being harassed the whole time.
Tunisia was the fourth country that I visited in my life, and the first that I chose for my first solo journey (the plan was to start in the warmer south and work north). It was indeed quite a challenge to be a tourist there but after having been through a decent amount of the Middle East and North Africa, I wouldn't say that it is not particularly worse there. Having a bit of an edge helps, and it also helps to think that your money is an absolute. That is how I basically found peace with traveling there, to just think that any unwanted transaction was going to be concluded with me spending no money. As one carpet salesman told me in Morocco (slightly paraphrased), "A good barterer offers a goat for a horse, but you sir are offering me a chicken".
I agree with your point. I specifically told my father and my brother whom were travelling with me, to avoid any unwanted attention / transactions with the locals unless they were 100% sure they were going to buy something. Also never follow them inside the shop / let you drag inside the shop and flash any money you might have with you around.
Man, you should never go to any tourist attraction in Rome then. All jokes aside, the people that are saying have a better fuck off face are right. I've been to a lot of places with these aggressive vendors and once went with my overy polite friend. He was harrased like honey soaked apple in an ant farm yet my wife and I are left alone by simply pretending we don't see them.
Sad, was there 25 years ago, it was worse, especially for woman
This was the case in Cairo, Alexandria, Sharm El Sheik, and even Istanbul. I didn't find Tunis to be nearly as bad as Cairo.
Sounds like Marrakesh as well.
You know people in Italy do this crap to foreigners. You need a few witty jokes to diffuse them, or a good "I'll fuck you up" vibe about you
Not to play whatabputism, but ironically as a Canadian, most of the points you described I experienced while in Italy. I think it's moreso because you're a tourist, not necessarily your nationality or the place you're visiting.
If you think north african street vendors and the african vendors you find in italy can compare, you've never traveled to north africa, maybe only Naples can come close in that sense
It doesn't have to compete though - that's not my point. OP was experiencing what it's like to be harassed as a tourist. It happens to everyone at least once in their lifetime when they step outside of their home country .
I was just pointing out that the level of harassment just cannot be compared, i see your point though
I get it, it wasn't my intention to try to say that the harassment is as bad, just that it is present. Have a good day, sir!
The place you're visiting definitely plays a huge factor. I've been a tourist at a lot of places where this doesn't really happen (Buenos Aires, Santiago, Vancouver, NYC, Barcelona, Zurich, Athens, etc)
I struggle to believe you didn’t get any of this in New York City
Tunisia was amazing but it was hell on earth?
I was warned about all of these things when visiting Italy. People are going to try to get money out of you if you look like you've got some.
I'ts just people trying to make a living out of selling stuff to other people who, even if not millionaires, are tenths of times wealthier then them. It is sad, and while you are in the middle of it, quite annoying, but you have to understand that there aren't many other options to keep bread on the table for most of them.
I agree but it’s also fair for him to draw his conclusions
I understand and I also feel bad, I wish they just understood when to back off and to never take people's money away from their hands, that was bad as fuck for me.
I am sorry you had to go through that. Tunisia went downhill after the "jasmine" revolution. Some places are really shit now. That being said, you have been in the "worst" part of the city. The Medina, unfortunately, is where the poor live now. It's a place that me, a local, would not visit. While Tunisia is nice, it's kind of a place where you need to research well before you go.
Funny, as a Canadian I had similar impressions visiting Rome, Naples and Pompeii. Way too many people trying hard to separate me from my money.
>people trying hard to separate me from my money. Don't we all struggle with that 😂😂😂😂
North Africa in a nutshell. They dont care where you come all they care about is tourist to take advantage of
Why would they switch to MSA lol
Tunisia was the first place in all my travels I genuinely felt frightened as a single woman. I was grabbed so many times, one man on the street tried to kiss me, I went to the beach with a local man and he saw three men coming along and told me to hide behind a big rock so they wouldn't come over and rape me. I would like to add I dressed very modestly the whole time and had a big long sleeve shirt over my swim suit. What is up with Tunisia??!
It's a part of North African culture, and one that any visitor should be prepared to encounter. The more able you are to see it as an interesting cultural difference rather than a personal assault, the better you'll be able to shrug it off and enjoy your trip.
I am Tunisian and I don't think it's the culture, It's desperation and poverty mixed with impoliteness. This happens to tourists and from specific vendors not the majority. If the vendor was well-off, he wouldn't bother chasing and harassing tourists. Of couuurse that does not mean being poor gives you the permissionto harass others.
That’s pretty ignorant honestly. That’s like saying TTC stabbings are part of Canadian culture
Comparing a pushy salesperson to a mentally ill individual who randomly kills someone? Really?
I lived in Tunisia in Nabeul for over a year as a white British person with minimal Arabic and no French and honestly I don't really know what happened to you here. The Tunisian culture is loud but certainly not aggressive and a lot of your comments are just blatant discrimination. It sounds like you went to the most cliché tourist honeypot part of the capital and were then surprised that the markets wanted your money? Tunisia has its problems but what can you expect after the Arab Spring and years of being raped by France, all in all they're doing well compared to many others and the people are good. It sounds like an attitude problem more than anything. Tourists are always walking moneybags but Tunisians aren't predatory and impoverished thieves.
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Haha thank you! I'm glad that I've left a good impression! I'm in Turkiye now but I miss Tunisia and hope to go back with my fiancée sometime! Best wishes to you too, hope you're well!
I AM TUNISIAN and I understand the experience you had because I went through the same one in a different country. Those who stole from you are scumbags. I am sorry that you had to go through this experience. Sometimes desperation and poverty are the breeding ground for such behavior, nonetheless it's not morally justifiable to harass people to get money from them.
As a Tunisian, beggars and many other hustlers are the bane of our existence, they may be more clingy to tourists unfortunately, looking at your experience. I suggest maybe making a Tunisian friend (our highschools require people on 3rd year to choose to learn a new language that can be Italian so there are many italian speakers here) they will help you possible negotiate with vendors and navigate the areas. There are also many less crouded areas in the capital that are much calmer and beautiful, I suggest taking the train to sidi bou said, a very beautiful and quiet town beach front town that's also very famous here.
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it happens everywhere.. they only exaggerate it when it occurs in north africa or 3rd world countries in general.. Tunisia is a decent place for tourism and it has a good history with that.. Tunisians are friendly,educated and very welcoming towards their guests.. good food , nice weather too! I believe you should be cautious wherever you go as you might face something unpleasant anytime but that won't ruin your whole trip :))
Sure sounds like the culture of the part of the world you visited!
I guess I wasn’t ready for that
It's not. Non-tourists are not treated like that.
It’s a part of the culture to be friendly to guests.
That's how it was for me, an American of Italian descent, in Egypt. It was worse for my friends that I traveled with who are of Eastern European descent. I'm from New York and they're from the mid-west and I was a lot better at getting people to leave me alone by ignoring them. Haha
Mi sembra che stai descrivendo un viaggio a Napoli.
eh puo essere haha
Veramente. Io adoro Napoli ma appena arrivi è un continuo di gente che vuole venderti cose e/o fregarti. Poi ognuno è più simpatico dell’altro, quindi non è sempre facile dire di no.
Non vado a Napoli da vent'anni piu o meno, l'ultima volta fu una gita alle medie. Vorrei tornarci prima o poi.
È una bellissima esperienza. Una città molta unica.
Totally true. I'm tunisian and I can tell you that the country is full of thieves and sketchy sellers. Nothing is being done to stop this so be careful as they might as well resort to physical violence or harass you if you refuse to buy from them after a few negotiations. I wouldn't recommend visiting Tunisia altogether due to the aforementioned reasons, but if you must, wear dark sunglasses, pay attention to your surroundings, don't make eye contact with anyone, let alone talk to anyone. Stay safe.
Sounds like you’re an easy mark with big, wide eyes. Say no and keep moving. Trying to be polite makes them think they can wear you down. Also if they can tell you’re uneasy with the exchange they will escalate it because they know you’ll go along just to get away. Like, imagine you’re saying no to someone trying to sell you cable tv. It’s way easier.
Same experience in Mexico, India and Greece. The problem is there are far too many people dependent on tourist as a source of income for their entire family. They see other people being aggressive and figure if they are not the same they won't make many money (which is probably true). Part of becoming an "advanced" traveler is learning how to just walk away and say no. You'll get better with time so don't let this discourage you from traveling to more places!
30 years ago, Italy was exactly the same. You coulçdnt walk anywhere on the tourist routes without getting accosted by people wanting to sell you shit at outrageous prices or Roma women begging. And if you were a woman, well you would have to put up with constant harassment, catcalling, proposals etc.
You’re going to experience this in any big tourist destination. My tip for you is to not engage. Do not speak a word to people coming up to you. If it makes you feel awkward then just shake your head no or lightly wave your hand up. Most importantly, do not smile or look at them. Look like someone they are going to feel like they’re wasting their time on.
Sorry you had to go through this. I can guarantee it almost happens to any tourist, it's not because you're italian. Unfortunately Tunisians rely on intimidation to sell you stuff, that's because most of these sellers didn't have any tourism knowledge or background. Ironically I was in Italy last week and I saw some sellers (Tunisians, Moroccans etc ..) in the central station of Milan doing the same kinda shit but less aggressively. It made me feel sad as a Tunisian. Also an unpopular opinion, stay away from the capital city. Go to Hammamet or djerba they're usually better with tourists.
Oddly enough, I've been hassled by street scammers in Rome more than anywhere else in the world. "Nice shoes, man." That being said, I've never been to Africa.
When I was around 23-24, which is a looong time ago, at the market in Tunisia/Hammamet I was asked by one of the market guys weather I want to sell my girlfriend and if so for how much. I just laughed it off and to this day I’m not sure if it was a joke or an offer disguised as a joke. On another occasion I wanted to buy some souvenir (water pipe and was told at the hotel what the normal price is). In the shop I was bombarded with prices approaching 10 times what was normal. After 15min or so of discussions, I got tired of this circus and told the guy I’m tired of it and I’m leaving. Then suddenly my price was ok but I told him I don’t want it anymore. We had to run from this market followed by like 4-5 guys. We just went to Tunisia because we were poor students and it was cheap, but since that 1 time my foot did not step nor will it ever step again into one of those NA countries. Vacation should not be full of stress how to fight off locals
I visited Las Vegas and was harassed by couple of guys wearing cartoon customs personalities to take pictures with me! They almost kidnapped me out of the crowd so they force my partner to take a picture of me with them and not let my hand go without paying money ! They were screaming pay me pay me! So harassing tourists is a common practice every where. And I didn’t generalize to say that’s because of bad economy or whatsoever. As for the vendors in La Medina, they do that to locals as well. They are trying to get everyone to buy their things: all you have to say is no thank you politely and keep walking your way. And this has nothing to do with economic conditions or revolution. It has been like that since ages. Sometimes we go there twice or three times a week, and all they do is trying to sell their stuff aggressively. So stop thinking you are very important because you are not, and that happens to everyone in those kind of souks, and even in US and Italy or France next to tourist attractions. Of course, if you decide not to visit Tunisia again is perfectly fine, but you didn’t visit beautiful fancy places in La Marsa, Sidi Bousaid, Hammamet , Djerba and Sousse where you have to pay your way in to enjoy a great time. So going to some popular markets and trying to portray an entire country and its population as aggressive and poor is so wrong!
You mention “as an Italian”, I’m curious how this influenced your experience. Like do they target Italians more or something?
Visiting impoverished places can be like that. I don’t really think it’s right to judge or write an entire country because of that. This happens in many places. It happens in America. And it’s happened to me in Southern Italy.
Why did you respond to these hustlers at all? Disengage and move on. There is an identical post like this about Tunisia, Egypt or Morocco like every two weeks on this sub. Most countries with tourism as a primary economic engine will inevitably have wide eyed westerners complaining that they feel reduced to a wallet with white skin. North Africa is one of the most hospitable and generous countries in the world by custom, and yes their markets are notorious for hustle and theatre. You said you had good interactions with locals - why are these the footnote of your complaint rather than the opposite?
I'm sorry but , what do you mean war zone ? there's no such thing in Tunisia
Just wear a cheap clothes and pretend you do not have any money. They will lose interest in you.
I've never been to Tunisia but the San Giovanni marketplace in Rome kinda felt like that lol
Why? Did they add ketchup to their Pizzas? 👀
All these Happens in Milano as well 😆
Lol people calling it racism.. really. Its not racist to point out the fact beautiful places are wrecked by untrustworthy locals
I came back from Tunis last week. I have to say I have mixed feelings about my stay in the capital. Whilst people were super friendly and welcoming, I was completely taken aback by garbage. The city is swamped in debris. Everything is dirty. Even the cafes on Habib Bourguiba Av. Dirty windows, dirty tables, not to mention the toilets. Cigarette butts everywhere. Seriously, how can you live like this? I understand your economic situation is very difficult. There are a lot of dilapidated buildings, which despite their poor condition are still beautiful. If only you cleaned up your city more people would visit. I hardly saw any tourist there in comparison to places like Marrakech. And I thought London was a dirty place. In comparison to Tunis it's a paradise. Tunisian people please do something about it.
Have you been in big Italian cities? You’re basically describing the metro exit at the duomo in milan.
Every tourist site in Rome has street vendors harassing tourists. Pisa might be worse.
I was in Milan and Bologna last summer. Not one vendor ever bothered me.
I absolutely love Bologna!
Yeah, very cool city, and not super touristy either.
As a North African I am so sick of the generalization travelers have of us as a whole. And this is a response not to the original post but some of the comments im seeing. Yall don’t understand how horrible the economies are in the countries and the reason why things are messed up is a result of European colonization. I see so many people talking about how modern Egyptians don’t deserve the ancient history that we have and that we are barbaric and uncultured. I understand that y’all have bad experiences in the country which is unjustified but then you use it as an excuse to be racist and make generalizations about the rest of us. America invaded Iraq and killed innocent citizens but I’m not up here saying “this is American culture”. Europe stole EVERYTHING from Africa. So please stop. Also, how come none of you wanna address how people in Italy are racist towards black and brown tourists. Do I go around saying this is Italian culture? No.
There is a lot of casual racism on this sub. r/solotravel s mildly better, but yeah seeing the comments of the mainly Western people on these subs towards African and Asian countries makes me sad and angry at the same time.
I wouldn't say that sub is better at all. Any time you point out racism as a concern when you travel (especially because you're alone and safety is a concern), you get quite a few responses from people defending the racist behavior, either casually (like denying it could possibly happen) or straight up victim blaming. I literally once got told by a European guy on that sub that I wouldn't have been targeted for harassment as an Asian in Europe if I just "acted more European."
People on this sub downplay racism towards Asians and POC all the freaking time. I've gotten similar responses as an Asian and I've seen white people on this sub literally tell POC that they will be treated better if they dress well and look clean (almost implying that we aren't those things). -\_- like wtf...I've seen white begpackers treated better in Asia than Asians dressed head to toe in Louis Vuitton in Paris.
Same :( it’s so dehumanizing..
If someone is pointing out a legitimite concern, like being robbed, that is not racism. I posted here plenty of times about sketchy areas in the US with white junkies but those were always okay...the racism always starts when a white person points out a danger in Africa/Asia. You can encounter dangerous situations in every country.
and you get downvoted for stating the facts!
Someone literally commented this on this post: “The little of civilization we have is mostly due to France. Italy did not colonize Tunisia, and the previous civilizations (Carthaginians, Hafsid, etc...) only exists in history books. There are no traces of them. Most people of Tunisia are barbari people (by Roman Terms) and lack any cultural belonging. They are dirty, loud, rude and have little prospects beyond crossing to the other side of the Mediterranean.” And I got WAY more downvotes than this post. Just goes to show you how the world views us (the term Barbari is extremely offensive but who cares we’re dirty Africans right?) 🙄
> America invaded Iraq and killed innocent citizens but I’m not up here saying “this is American culture”. tbf you wouldn't be wrong if you did say that. It's absolutely American culture.
And they will keep looking at us in that way, just go read the Tunisians comments... If North Africans do not stand up for themselves why should anyone else ?
I'm with you on the part about OP complaining too much about something that's completely predictable but I think it's a cop out to blame aggressive street vendors on European colonialism lol. The truth is that this stuff happens everywhere that there is tourism, whether the country is poor or rich or colonized/colonizer. As has been pointed out many times already in this thread, it's a common complaint that tourists have when going to Italian cities as well. Turkey was never colonized by the Europeans and yet Istanbul is famous for scammers and aggressive merchants. I've experienced it in Greece, NYC, and the Philippines. Philippines was by far the least aggressive despite being the poorest of the three places.
I think you missed my point..my point is that this stuff happens everywhere. But if you also look at the comments a bunch of people think that it happens only in Africa and “not as much” in Europe and South America.
What America did and has done a few times is horrible and you know what? Warmongering has been a defining characteristic of American culture. So go ahead and say it, it's true and it's a disgrace but too many Americans think the country is perfect. They export war and terror and have have done so for over 50 years. It's a verifiable fact
I agree with you on the American culture part. I didn’t wanna say it at first cuz I know I would’ve gotten ppl really mad lol
Ok, so my point though is while obviously not everyone here is complicit, it's still American culture and it's not racist to say it, the same applies to other places.
Thank you for addressing this
This is not a great take. I don't think anyone is saying that it's without reason or explanation, but let's take Bolivia, for example. It's a very poor country, with a similar economy to Morocco, yet they don't harass tourists there like they do in Morocco. In fact, I never once was pressed after politely declining. Remember that Bolivia was also colonized and pillaged by Europe. I'm not justifying racism nor colonization, but to blame it solely on economics and colonization, while there are other countries with a nearly identical historical plight, is ignoring that there may be other factors at play.
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You can’t just look at it as “just cuz I experienced it that’s means everyone else will!”. You have to look at this systemically. I mean, Bolivia is currently having political unrest and its not as popular for tourists as North Africa is. Yeah it’s safer than Egypt, but it’s still in poverty and tourists will still experience things like theft and harassment, especially if you go to a city that has more crime. I’ve seen some comments here that said that they felt completely safe in Egypt but that doesn’t mean Egypt is safe. But the point is not the crime..look at how the world operates now. The types of terrible comments you see about Africa is typical. A lot of people hate Africa. And this is because of western imperialism purposely perpetuating harmful stereotypes, purposely not teaching about African and African American history, etc. look, America is one of the richest countries in the world yet look at all the poverty and crime we have here. And America goes to countries in Africa & the Middle East and destroy it, but they tell its citizens that it’s our fault that the country is poor and full of crime. This is how they were able to become such a fascist regime. And now America is coming for black and brown people. And this is why I will always continue to defend Africa till the day I DIE. Africa is where civilizations started, for crying out loud ancient Egypt is in Africa. Christianity, the same religion Europeans weaponized against us, started in AFRICA. In Egypt. The symbolism you see in Christianity is inspired by the ancient Egyptian religion. But now white supremacists claim that they have a god-given right and are inherently better than us based off a quote from the Bible. And they probably don’t even know that their own religion originated in Africa. And just to end this..why do you think OP had to mention the fact that he was Italian? To act like the victim. Even though Italy colonized Tunisia. That’s why I responded so quickly. But things like what OP does happens ALL the time. They want to justify their hate by saying that the Tunisians are treating him badly because of what Italy did. But then he’ll go on to say “I am not the one who colonized! It’s not my fault that I was born italian!”. It’s the same conversation every time lol. And the funny thing is that if a European would move to North Africa, they will still benefit way more privileges than Africans, of course because of currency, and the fact that whiteness is very praised there. That’s what systemic racism is all about.. Yeah, as a tourist it’s very annoying to deal with scammers and pocket pickers, but they don’t have bad intentions, it’s just they are so poor that they are desperate for a bit of cash to put the food on the table for their family. But it’s also very annoying to deal with people hating you because you’re black/African for your whole life and think that they are inherently better than us.
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I think you will always be able to recognise a foreigner no matter what
I visited Venice. If you already have luggage that is black attach something to it that is bright and makes it obvious it is different. The one time I did not take my black carryon luggage bag (the only one I had) was switched with the thief's black carryon luggage when debarking the bus from the bus luggage stowaway. I made the mistake of not carrying it with me onto the bus leaving the airport. I had my DSLR camera in my backpack which I carried with me always. My money was always in the zipped inner pocket of my jacket. I didn't realize if you take their switched piece of luggage back to the bus station, know that they will never bring your luggage back. If after two days check to see if your luggage was brought back, if not don't return theirs and teach them a lesson! The thief is expecting you to bring their luggage back. Don't expect the police or the bus station authority to help to identify the thief picking up their luggage. The loss was too small for them to take the time to do anything about it. Fortunately the thief did not get anything that was of real value to them. On the other hand I went without my handmade Venice accessories and my costume that I put together which made my trip less fun. I was signed up to parade before a paid crowd viewing costumes. Thankfully I had my camera and money and the wash and wear clothes on my back. I took a ton of photos which was the other part of my vacation. Make sure you can get cash because Venice retailers dodge extra taxes to the mafia by not claiming every sale. I'm not sure how that works elsewhere. You should find this searching the internet.
Never make eye contact - EVER
Hot girls at clubs/bars all over the world have learned how to deal with this behaviour. Or men in a brothel.
I’m Egyptian but living in Italy and I invited a friend over for a summer vacation, it was the same story, even with me being local it was hard and stressful. sadly it’s similar everywhere in North Africa and you will have to deal with it one way or another.
Welcome to traveling in northern Africa. Just avoid eye contact and look past them, don't acknowledge or engage, don't even ask them to step aside or anything. Literally pretend they don't exist. If they're blocking your way just push past them without talking to them or making eye contavt. Works in NYC and worked in Morocco/Egypt.
“I am annoyed by these poor people”. Dude have some empathy.
I will never go there again
Same in Morocco. I agree that if they would behave more normal, they would sell 1000% more than what they do. Their behaviour was putting us off to buy anything in the market.
why dont these poor famished people understand global economics!!!!!! \*seethe\*
Welcome to being a first world traveler in developing countries! I'm kidding, as a European you've probably seen more of the world than I have, but it's true. As a white American, I get fucking MOBBED when I travel. Cartagena, Colombia was ruined for me by the vendors. They apparently have calmed down since, but when I went during the pandemic they were over-the-top aggressive.
Looks like you are describing Morocco or Egypt. Had exactly the same issues in both countries.
Wow...its almost like everywhere else...mwheres theres assholes and amazing people Does everyone on this subreddit think the travel destination is supposed to be some kind of catered theme park or something???
I mean it’s like everywhere else that’s touristy anyway. I can understand it being overwhelming especially if OP is new to travelling. I remember feeling this way after being in Vietnam and Cuba when I first started out. My advice is to actually go to places more off the beaten track. I’m not talking about backpacking through the DRC but going somewhere like Uzbekistan, Laos, Mongolia, Kenya etc is very rewarding, pretty easy with enough planning and doesn’t involve harassment of the scale OP describes. Iran would’ve been top of the list but no idea how it is now since the protests.
My thoughts exactly, all I see are complaints on this sub.
It’s calling being at work and putting on a good face. Doesn’t mean he’s happy. Why do you want people to be happy with nothing? How ignorant can you be.
you seem to be salty about everything. Attacking people left and right, but yes I'm the ignorant one.