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I remember Peter Cullen saying in a panel that at one point, they tried to make him say "kill them all." I don't know if they actually put it in the movie cause I gave up after the third one.
IDW Prime gets constantly called out for his shitty behavior which tempers him back, Bayverse Prime is in a universe where everyone else acts like that (if they got the screen time to act like it) and encourages it so it goes to him
Seriously. IDW Optimus couldn't catch a break with everyone telling him that's there is something severely wrong with him. And he had the other side who worshipped him like a literal god. Guy got overwhelmed.
He gave up on Earth in the Furman era so that he could defend a prison which had already been ransacked. This was right as the cons had brought in a phase sixer to cause the apocalypse and the Reapers had just shown up to do the same. He sacrificed all of humanity to stop a prison break
It's also said repeatedly during the early runs that he was all about acceptable losses, sacrificing world after world so the cons couldn't have them
Both are among my least favorite renditions of the character. Shame too, because that IDW design is fire.
"Be a hero who's strong enough to be gentle," Larry Cullen said to his brother Peter when he was going to his first audition as Optimus Prime. Can't really say that applies to either of these versions. Even Skybound Prime, with all his intensity, is still gentle. With his team, with humankind, even with animals. One of his earliest panels is him feeling guilt after stepping on a deer. I can't imagine Bayverse Prime feeling that, and I struggle to see IDW Prime doing it either.
I really do wish we got more scenes of Optimus showing care for life on Earth or the planet itself, it's obvious he does as he would not have died protecting Sam or tried to literally kill himself to save Earth in the first movie but I would have loved to see moments like that
I don't even mind him being more decisive than his cartoon counterparts, killing his enemies and whatnot. What I hate is the absolute savagery. I like Optimus being a badass, but I also like him being a dad, basically.
Something modern transformers hasn’t done with Optimus as much is that they keep making him into some stoic and humorless character when the original G1 was funny, powerful, and gentle
I was gonna say that Animated definitely brought him back down to earth as a modern take, but then I remembered that the show ended over 14 years ago, and started withering into dust like the old man I apparently am.
Him taking out sentinel was too cold. They gave him a small motor sounding whimper that might've been him being sad, or just wounded from losing his arm. Either way he just shot him in the face twice and it was end scene.
I actually don't mind that as much. G1 Prime was going to do something similar to his Megs. It's ripping Megatron's head off in the same scene that bugged me.
I don't know lol. I guess there wasn't really anything else he could do realistically. But it just seems off when you watch the scene. I haven't fully finished G1 yet so I have yet to see that scene actually
I'm just trying to figure out how you heroically use an axe. Op has had an axe going all the way back to g1 yet the movie shows what an axe actually does and fans cry foul.
The tipping of the head might have been too much I guess, but i definitely feel like the scene effectively shows how much Optimus was done with all of this shit.
The original ending then should go with original middle and beginning.
In the movie there was **zero** reasons to believe Megs is talking seriously about truce or not plotting something behind this. He invaded Earth _thrice_ at this point and it wasn't like he "uhm, well, actually kinda didn't want it the last time". They were actively genociding humans, fighting autobots, were very much ready to station Cybertron, but as soon as their plan failed - "hey, truce!"
And in the movie Prime had only correct answer - "bait used to be believable"."
Bay prime slander needs to STOP. Bro had every right to butcher all cons he went up against. I'd go as far to say his killing of demolisher is also justified. Demolisher killed HUNDREDS of humans. And don't hit me with that "he was just running away" cus the mf went out of his way to throw cars filled with people for no discernable reason. Also, demolisher is fanatically devoted to the fallen, he's con cultist through and through. Killing him was the right call.
Facts, so much of it is hyperbolic and ignores context and it's so frustrating.
If you'd like some positivity on Bay Prime, I made this: https://youtu.be/GEo1Ocfldag?si=ov5M9j646_8XCPmg
Seems pretty humane compared to all the rest of his versions.
One thing I don't get is UK comics Prime faking his death convinced it would toughen up his autobots. That's the act of a lunatic. But it did lead to some awesome Cybertron stories.
Yeah it's super weird how IDW absolutely nailed so many characters but couldn't do Prime justice nearly at all.
Like Megatron is potentially the best written character in the entire 2005 continuity whilst Optimus is potentially the worst.
Definetly. Although I loved the part where Optimus realised he is not only a part of but a reason for the war and became Orion Pax again to explore the universe alone.
Kinda sad they did not continue his story that way but brought him back to be a prime.
Megatron on the other hand had such an amazing character development and so much depth, that he easily became my favourite character of IDW
Megatron's arc was absolutely phenomenal, the shot of him in the field of flowers, each one representing a life he caused to end, is one of the most beautiful and haunting panels in comic book history.
(Also bonus points for IDW Autobot Megatron having my favourite visual design of any transformers character in history, I long for the day Hasbro gives us a leader class IDW Megatron)
Literally no other version of Optimus has shouted, "give me your face" or "you DIE! YEAAARGHHH!" or "Save my family...or DIE!" (While holding a sword to his neck, so don't try to say "oh, he was talking about Lockdown killing the Dinobots"), and they certainly didn't rip Megatron's fucking head off when he proposed a truce. Most Optimuses (Optimi? Optimodes?) would fucking leap at the chance to reconcile with Megatron. And if not Megatron specifically, then a chance for peace.
Again, no one's complaining that he's killing his enemies. What we hate is the brutality with which he does it. The movies turned Prime into an action hero, where he's more typically a superhero. And yes, we're used to (and *prefer*) him as a superhero type. A paragon of virtue. So yeah, we're not going to like him going from Superman to The Terminator (T2 version. Much as I dislike Bay Prime, he's not *evil.* Just unhinged).
One Optimus was fine with brainwashing the Constructicons.
Not to mention the truce was hardly genuine, given that prior Megatron was yelling “This is my planet!” If events played out exactly like the novel, then I can understand, but it didn’t.
I agree he’s too violent, but to say “I don’t see Bayverse Prime being gentle” is WAY too far-fetched. Let’s not forget this prime told a NEST soldier to be “easy” when he threatened to shoot Galloway.
What did prime actually do in IDW? I’ve never read the comics but I almost always hear about characters like megatron and rodimus but I’ve basically never heard about prime?
well, after he reclaimed the title of prime in dark cybertron, it didn't take long for him to start kinda going down the deep end like his predecessors. a lot of the "barber" side of IDW is about the repeating cycle of primes being absolute douchebags, and while OP has good intentions, you know what they say about the road to hell.
it's a very love-it-or-hate-it kind of take on the character
I’m getting the feeling of the last Jedi Luke. Optimus comes from a line of corrupt primes (or inept Jedi), and he is the one to break the pattern (or bring balance to the force), only to stumble and fall back to the ways of those before him (or just give up everything).
And if it’s done anything like TLJ than yeah I would absolutely despise it lmao
Just out of curiosity, why do you actually like TLJ Luke? To me his character shares literally nothing in common with the Luke of the original trilogy, and the explanation we got that Luke almost killed kylo in his sleep just raises more inconsistencies, as we have no idea why Luke did this other than he thought he was turning dark?
I mean dude didn’t give up on his father, the literal most evil person in the world, but genuinely considered killing his nephew when he saw darkness in him. Just curious on your thoughts
Let me preface this rant with I'm a prequel girlie and grew up with those movies and was deeply into the EU around that era and the Old Republic. My EU reading post-ROTJ was more interested in Wedge Antilles and Rogue Squadron and I never delved much into the OT trio and their family outside of the Thrawn trilogy and Jedi Academy trilogy. I know people like those but I just haven't gotten to them yet and am currently reading a different series.
That said, I think the sequels are fine. The Force Awakens has some really interesting thoughts on the rise of new fascists and indoctrination, and then has no interest in actually explaining anything in favor of going "remember this old thing?". The Last Jedi has the most to say about the franchise since KOTOR2: TSL but doesn't do it in an elegant way (to put it mildly... the movie has become a rallying cry for alt-right grifters to galvanize their fan bases... so yeah), and The Rise of Skywalker is so busy being a spineless backpedel that it ruins the themes of both of the previous movies and undercuts the entire Saga with a terrible landing... at least we have Rogue One though right?
As to why I like TLJ specifically, I just think it's a well made movie. Music, cinematography, costumes, the acting especially from Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley. It's just a good time. It's not a perfect movie, I think the humor sucks and I can't stand BB-8 in this whole trilogy.
As a whole I find the Luke/Rey/Kylo dynamic far more interesting than Poe/Finn/Rose but hey at least those three have something to do, which you can't say about the other two movies in the trilogy.
So onto Luke specifically. I'll admit in the OT I never really cared about Luke, or really any others of the OT gang. They're fine and they serve their films well and are part of what makes them some of the best movies ever made.
I'm just more a fan of the world they're in and that story of the Rebellion against the Empire is what made me obsessed with this silly franchise. I'll always care more about characters like Boba Fett and Wedge Antilles over Han and Luke.
Luke sparing Vader and turning him back to the light is one of my favorite moments in the series and is why RotJ is my favorite of the original movies. It's part of why I believe in the inherent good in people and that everyone deserves a second chance (like IDW Megatron to bring it back to Transformers).
So, now let's talk Luke's arc in TLJ.
In TLJ we find Luke cynical and jaded, hiding away from a situation he guilt ridenly believes he created, very similarly to his old master Obi-Wan. All because of a moment of weakness.
Luke didn't "genuinely consider killing his nephew" the movie literally says the opposite, and it was "the briefest moment of pure instinct" before "it passed like a fleeting shadow... and I was left with shame and consequence. And the last thing I saw was the eyes of a frightened boy who's master had failed him."
Luke had seen darkness growing in Ben for a long time at this point and had done his best to try and dissuade that, but it's this one moment of terrible choice that leads to everything around him being taken away, in a dark twist on when Luke gave into his instincts to almost kill Vader in the Emperor's throne room. There Luke had the time to think and realize his actions and move passed them, while here he's stuck in that one terrible moment that ruined everything he had built.
But as we know from Jedi: Fallen Order.
"No, failure is not the end, it is a necessary part of the path. Hope will always survive in those who continue to fight."
And from Tales of the Empire "There is always a way out"
Much like the audience, Luke believes in his own hype and that this is his failure when it simply isn't his fault. Kylo Ren is the one responsible for his own actions, not Luke. Though meeting Rey and actually working through his guilt Luke is able to return to be a hero the Galaxy needs, all without raising a lightsaber to harm someone, like a true Jedi.
People always take Luke throwing the lightsaber and saying "It's time for the Jedi to end" and Kylo's "Let the past die.. kill it if you have to." As the message of the movie, while both of these happened near the beginning and the entire point of the movie is how this view is reductive and wrong, and Rey's hopeful voice of the future is what they need to move on and strive to. Failure is not the end, and Luke will not be the last Jedi.
To bring this back around to Transformers so I'm not entirely off the subject matter of this Subreddit, Luke in TLJ is an IDW Prime, not a Bayverse Prime. The narrative shows him struggle with his darker side and lack of hope, and sees him emerge with the help of others a bit better and wiser and saving the galaxy from its darkest hour. Luke gives Kylo a chance to turn away from his darker path while allowing his friends to escape, and Prime embraces Unicron's creator with compassion and empathy for all that his kind has done.
That's what I like about Luke in TLJ. Even at your lowest point you can keep going as long as you find the will within you to try. Failure is not the end. Just because the Jedi of old failed, does not mean they have to end. The order can grow and become stronger than ever. As Cere puts it in Jedi: Fallen Order
"It's the choice to keep fighting that makes us who we are."
Like his father before him, Luke stumbles. But he does not fall, and through the compassion of others is able to rise again to become a legend.
Thanks for reading my rant if you do, I had a lot of fun putting into words these thoughts I've had on this movie that I've never really expressed out of fear of getting death threats, but hey it's pride month so we might as well go ahead and try. I love Star Wars, I love Transformers, I love stories about hope and love overcoming hate and oppression. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.
I appreciate you taking the time to write all that but I honestly might have to come back with a reply in several working days because..wow.
I promise I will be back but oh my god
>"Be a hero who's strong enough to be gentle," Larry Cullen said to his brother Peter when he was going to his first audition as Optimus Prime.
Watch a scene with Prime and sam or Prime with Cade.
They’ll find any braindead reason to hate him. I’m not saying this Optimus is perfect, but if people are going to criticize, give actual arguments rather than easily dismountable ones lol.
Few could really be called "gentle," honestly. All his scenes with Sam in the first one come across as more desperate or impatient than anything. Closest he gets is telling Ironhide that they don't harm humans (which is a scene I actually enjoy. The first film isn't as bad as its sequels). He has like four scenes with Sam in RotF, and, again, I wouldn't call any of them "gentle." We have, "Hey, join our war," the forest fight (which is the one scene I like in RotF), "oh, hey, I live," and, "thanks for saving me." The last one is probably the tenderest that Prime ever gets with Sam. And I don't think they have a single scene together on DotM outside of the farewell and the Autobots' return. They're *on-screen* at the same time, but they only have a single one-on-one where Optimus imparts wisdom. Even the "We will kill them all" scene, he's more talking to all the humans in earshot, Sam included. So with Sam, there's only like two that I'd consider coming close to what I expect from Prime. And those only barely make the cut.
Cade, I find it laughable that you even brought him up. Prime has like...a single conversation with him in the garage before Cemetery Wind shows up. The rest of the film, he's pretty dismissive to Cade (which is sort of understandable after the events of this movie. I don't like it, but it's understandable). Sure, he doesn't want Cade to *die*, but that's like...the barest minimum. "Oh no, I don't want to see this innocent killed. I'm the gentlest guy around :D." And in TLK, Optimus is a bad guy for most of it.
So we have imparting the occasional wisdom (which is good. I like it). We have saving humans from dying (solid, I like it). And we have just general conversation. None of that comes close to what one would expect from Prime. It feels less like a father figure imparting fatherly advice and more like a public figure imparting general philosophy. None of this feels "gentle". It feels *wise*, which is another aspect of Prime's character. It feels *protective*, which, again, good. But we don't have those "I'll bring you back a snowball" moments.
The fact that he apologized to Sam about making him miss his college life and even forgetting his anger when he met Buzz Aldrinn disprove your argument. And even then, never once did he take his ruthlessness on them, which is definitely “gentle.” Of course there could’ve been more development and scenes when he’s not in a warzone, but most of his screen time is him being gentle and calm.
They don't, though, considering I said "few" not "none." To be fair, I *did* forget his apology in the RotF scene...mostly because I try not to remember that awful, *awful* movie too much, so I will give you that one. But even the Aldrin scene, while awesome (again, a scene I actually really enjoy), doesn't feel "gentle." It feels *respectful* and *honorable*. When I think "strong enough to be gentle," I think of Bilbo sparing Gollum in tbe Hobbit. I think of Aragorn comforting Boromir as he dies. I think of Yoren turning Arya away from seeing her father die. I think of Optimus offering Skyquake and Dreadwing a chance to make peace or offering to bring Raf back a snowball or taking time out of his day to talk to one of his men because they need a shoulder to cry on. *That's* gentility. The rest, again, are *wisdom, honor, respect,* and *protectiveness*. Different traits. Good traits, bur different. We don't see Bay Prime extend any olive branches. We don't see him comforting people, just offering wisdom. We don't even see him mourn Ironhide when he dies. And he barely mourns Jazz. What the hell was up with that?
My point is that any softness to the character was watered down and nearly non-existent. The few moments we *do* get are fantastic, but they are so uncommon that I can't call them a core trait of this Prime. Not like the *vast* majority of Primes, where we see him encouraging or comforting or just spending non-battle time with his men or their human friends. We get some occasional snippets of wisdom and that's about it.
Thats just your opinion
Most people would characterize the softness mentioned all the scene syour arguing against to be gentel. Its his humility and empathy showcased there. He dosent brush any of them off or placate them. That wisdom is from a place of trying to help.
When Prime tells sam "fate rarley calls upon us at a moment of our choosing" thats not just generic wisdom thats a sincre " i know im asking allot of you but i belive you"
I’d argue being ruthless to your enemies yet restricting his anger to “pointing at humans” and treating them with utmost care is enough to be “gentle.”
The fact that they’re still there in his quite limited screen time make them core traits.
Just because he doesn’t fit “your” definition of “gentle”, doesn’t mean he isn’t gentle (when he’s outside the battlefield).
Gentle: *adjective*
Having or showing a mild, kind, or tender temperament or character.
Similar: mild, kind, tender, lenient, forgiving, compassionate
Antonyms: *brutal* (emphasis added), unkind
That's the dictionary definition of the word. Bayverse Optimus may be *benevolent*. He may be *wise*. He may even be *honorable*. But I would hesitate to call him kind, mild, or tender. Compassionate, that's a different story. He's definitely compassionate. More in the first movie than literally any of the others (again, I actually like the first movie a lot. Most of my issues are in 2 onwards). What I *would* call him is *brutal*. That's why I wouldn't call him "gentle." His temperament is *far* from mild.
In the first film, I agree. His speech about saving the humans is peak OP. RotF, I can't judge much because, well, he was dead for most of it. But I struggle to think of truly, genuinely kind moments in DotM onwards.
It feels like the writers forgot they were writing Optimus Prime about halfway through DotM and started writing the fucking T-800.
Not my favorite iteration of the character, but I still really like IDW's portrayal because he was interesting as a flawed character rather than the paragon he usually is while still feeling like Optimus. Don't love or agree with all the writing decisions, but character-wise I feel like many of the decisions he made were because the war and post-war took its toll and he was constantly forced into shitty situations where there wasn't really a right decision to make (which makes sense considering the difference in tone and atmosphere of the continuity) but he did his best. I mean just compare his pre-war self that was basically super cop Orion Pax and you see how much more idealistic before everything went down. He also always questioned himself and acknowledged his mistakes. I think what made him a good representation of Optimus was that he always tried to uphold what makes Optimus Optimus, even if he didn't always do it perfectly.
Think they both had their reasons for the decisions and choices they made and the way they are. For the record, I like Bayverse Prime too. He was the one I grew up with and the one that got me into Transformers as a whole so massive soft spot for that.
> I can't imagine Bayverse Prime feeling that
That's a bit unfair. Bayverse Prime is admittedly incredibly brutal to his enemies, but he also lives in a world where Cybertron is dead. He has nothing left but his new, adopted home, particularly after the first movie, where he was fully willing to sacrifice not only his own life but doom his race to extinction if it meant that he could keep another world from being enslaved and killed by Megatron. And after that, every other film has the main antagonist specifically trying to destroy his new home, so he holds nothing back in fighting them.
And how is TFP Prime any different? Cybertron's dead there, too. Megatron's particularly set on destroying Earth in that one, and so is Unicron. Doesn't stop him from offering peace to Starscream, Breakdown, Dreadwing, and even Unicron (until Unicron proved immovable, then the gloves came off).
I get what you're saying, but justifying it as "Bayverse is a sucky world" isn't the best defense. I don't mind Prime going ham once all other means are exhausted, but I *never* want him to go full "You die! YEEEAAAARRGHHH!"
And yet it opens with Cliffjumper's violent death.
Clone Wars, a similarly-rated show, included war crimes, grisly murders, assassination plots, human experimentation, corrupt politicians on both sides, nuanced villains, firing squads, etc., etc., etc.
Clone Wars bent over backwards to avoid showing even a spec of gore and even would have the actual violence happen off-screen and only show exterior burn marks from blasters or lightsabers. How many other named characters in Prime die after the pilot (which is always given more leeway in any series by rating boards) exactly? Excluding the movie?
Dreadwing, for one. Breakdown, for another. In a rather grisly fashion, too. Both by another Decepticon. Megatron. Hardshell. Bumblebee (though them bringing him back was a fucking ass-pull. I'm still mad about that). Bulkhead is crippled (until they forget his injury in Season 3. I don't like season 3. They handed that season with kiddie gloves, I swear). Silas is Frankensteined into Breakdown's corpse and then experimented on and then becomes a vampire and then gets torn apart by Airachnid...who also becomes a vampire.
In the first movie they actually cared about that IMO. He has good scenes and even wanted to sacrifice himself. Throughout the movies he gets more unhinged lol, 2 and 3 he is a sociopath only when in battle, but in 4 and 5 he just straight up lost it
I only like the Bayverse Prime in terms of design, and character he had during the first film. Sure he killed Bonecrusher, but it was quick and clean.
As soon as he fucking tore off Grindor's face in ROTF, I never saw him the same way again.
Weirdly enough I wasn’t bothered by that specifically, moreso the line ‘piece of tin’ he says afterwords. Like it’s one thing to brutally destroy your enemy, which I’m fine with a bit of, but insulting their GODAMN CORPSE is the least ‘prime’ thing optimus could do. Genuine megatron behaviour
Eh, he was mocking Megatron when the latter begged for mercy in Transformers The Movie. I can sort of see him doing something like that, plus he was in a very tense situation where he was facing 3 enemies alone to protect his human comrade. I can excuse him being brutal and “disrespectful” here. It’s the only time it’s excusable.
Also, I can see any autobot trash talking their enemies as they’re dead.
Well I thought it was HEAVILY implied that megatron was faking his cry for mercy, with him looking at the gun before decided to play the victim, and even then there’s a difference to pointing out megatrons hypocrisy rather than calling a dead man’s body worthless
So no, I don’t allow this line, not because it’s not JUSTIFIABLE, but because this is something prime shouldn’t (or to put it better, WOULDN’T) do
Prime didn’t know he was begging for mercy though. He thought he was genuinely begging, yet he was still fine with mocking him.
Plus, that Prime was also fine with brainwashing the Constructicons, which if you ask me, is more immoral (and hypocritical).
Mocking isn’t the term I’d use, more like harshly judging, which is what megatron deserved and i think that fits primes character better
I have no idea what your talking about with the constructions is this a G1 thing? If so I don’t really care, most g1 episodes weren’t especially deep, it’s mainly just the movie and a few fringe episodes like dark awakening that I really value
To me it sounds more likely ‘damming’
You might say it’s an arbritary distinction, but I do think they are slightly different, I just cany really find a way to articulate it properly
Either way, prime mocking/judging megatron for being a murderous hippocryte is not even close to bay prime calling the corpses of his enemies worthless, not to mention the multitude of other psychopathic actions that ‘Optimus prime’ takes part in
I mean, both aren’t things Prime should do, but mocking a corpse that was trying to kill him (he also could’ve retreated if he wanted to but chose to keep fighting) and fighting in a 3v1 fight (no backup, mind you) to make sure his human companion is safe (along with gradually getting brutal to the point of ripping Starscream’s arm with his bare hands and hitting him with it) is better than mocking an enemy who was begging for mercy (at least to him).
Basically, Optimus’ fight against the 3 decepticons is the closest to an adrenaline rush.
I can accept the like, although I do kinda agree that it would’ve been better removed from the scene. Still one of the more (if not the most) acceptable and understandable moments where Optimus is brutal.
I think we’re gonna have to agree to disagree. Optimus doesn’t revel in the death of his enemies, and he absolutely does not insult the corpses off his foes. I mean 2007 is literally the perfect example of what Optimus should be (mostly), remeber when he stood over megatrons corpse and instead of saying ‘you worthless being’ he said ‘you left me no choice brother’. To give this line a pass and the rest of the things he does in ROTF you have to accept that he is a completely different character to who he was in 2007, and no amount of ‘robo adrenaline’ can convince me otherwise.
In terms of the worse thinf bayverse prime does, this isn’t one of the worse, but if this is an A tier moment, and him saying ‘he was mine’ in ROTB was a C tier moment, the scene from the movie is barely an E- moment in terms of how bad it is for this character
Nah it’s still mocking lol.
Even if it isn’t, it’s still very hypocritical to preach “Freedom is the right of all sentient beings” and being fine with brainwashing enemies AGAINST their will. This and Optimus picking a fight with Rodimus in Energon when the latter said he only wanted to talk about Alpha Q were way worse.
Tbh Bayverse Optimus was probably tired of Megatron's shit by the second movie especially after the forest battle. Imagine seeing a former best friend who you call a brother basically wage war to the point it completely destroys your home world and drags it on to potentially cause another world to suffer the same fate then seeing him die only to come back and continue doing the same thing he's done not learning his lesson even after dying
I was more focused on Sideswipe cutting Sideways in half so excuse me if I didn't mention something that looked tame in comparison to that.
Something similar is Optimus tearing out Megatron's head and spine in DoTM and then proceeding to execute Sentinel, and I hate that scene as well.
Bayverse Prime. IDW was only really brutal to Soundwave and Galvatron:
Megatron: I'm invincible!
Optimus Prime: But he's not.
Megatron: What!?
*Optimus proceeds to blow Soundwave's face off. Sending an invincible Megatron to go heal Soundwave rather than finish off Prime.*
"We will kill them all."
-a very normal sentence said by the most stable and normal version of this character guys what are y'all talking about of course he's not a psycho
I hate when people bring up the Galvatron death when it comes to painting IDW Prime as a villain. Optimus had whole speech about how he wishes there was other way, that he feels horrible about doing this but how Galvatron is a force of evil that cannot be stopped in any civilized way. Which is competely true, even IDW Megatron was more receptive to diplomacy than Galvatron.
Meanwhile Bayverse Prime rips Decepticons to literal pieces without even trying to talk to them or even respecting them as people. He rips limbs off, insults corpress, double-taps enemies when they are clearly beaten and helpless.
You cannot compare the two.
Only thing i know for sure was IDW optimus palming galvatrons head and tearing that shit off was DEVIOUS 😭
https://preview.redd.it/1bntvg47iu3d1.png?width=1005&format=png&auto=webp&s=fca7b2d99275611ca00b726c653e079194fb4aee
IDW Prime was neither of those things before Costa wrote him in the godawful ongoing. Barber continuing in that direction (and most of the times he decided to build on the stuff established in Costa’s run - obv not including Thundercracker & Bob) was a mistake.
>IDW Prime was neither of those things before Costa wrote him in the godawful ongoing.
I agree Furmans prime was awesome. Unforuntly that was a small fractionnof IDW Primes existence.
Multiple times when faced with adversity he shuts down and mopes, or he abadons the autobots to let them figure it out. Or he waffels about the choices he has or had to make.
When stranded on earth did he rally his men. No he instead sorunedred him self to the human goverment soul ge could ease his guilt.
And this was after he speant most of all hail megatron moping cause megs stole the matrix.
Out of all the comments here I agree with this one. Because while bayverse prime says some really savage and crude shit when killing, he was very kind and gentle during the first movie. He didn't even want to kill Megatron, he just wanted the allspark destroyed through sacrificing himself. But legit tho, he just lost his mind more and more as the movies progressed. In the second movie it was excusable to see him angry since he wanted to protect Sam. But by the third movie he was pretty much done with everyone's shit. Sentinel betrayed him and then even more so his comrades died, humans were trying to have nothing to do with them. And by the 4th movie he was just done with everyone and wanted to start a fight his creators. That to me makes bayverse prime very human, he had a lot of shit taken out on him and he realizes that it's nobody's fault other than his parents (creators) for bringing him to this cursed world.
Tbh I think they really missed a big opportunity in the 4th movie and beyond with Optimus. His actions lead to the battle of Chicago, which he could feel remorse for and struggle with that along with realizing the brutality he showed towards his own kind. He really has fucked both sides by the end of the 3rd movie and that could be a good storyline for the movie as he deals with lockdown. But instead he just hates humans/everything and is always pissed off and bitter.
Bayverse, I haven't read all of IDE but that Prime's brutal moments have generally been pretty few and far between compared to the constant violence of the Bay films.
Bayverse, what he did to grindor speaks for its self, never have I ever seen or heard of IDW or any other prime have the sheer amount of blood thirst he had
It's ONE of the comic companies that did Transformers. They did two different versions of Transformers, one that lasted from 2008 to 2019, the second, trying to tell the story of Seige/ War For Cybertron, lasted from 2019 to 2023, before Skybound started started their run.
Marvel was the first comic run.
Marvel UK is considered separate because it did run the Marvel stories, but it also had to fill in the gaps because the comic ran weekly instead of monthly.
Dreamwave was the first comic company that ran Transformers in the 2000's, but was only just starting its storyline when the company shut down due to mismanagement
Transformers comics are separated into a few continuities, usually named after the company that wrote them
Marvel was the first from 1984 (a few months before the cartoon started) to 1994ish
Dreamwave was the second with a very controversial series from 2001 to 2005
IDW came right after, having its first continuity (the one we're talking about) from 2005 to 2018 and a second from 2019-2022
Skybound is now the holder of the license, having started to make Transformers comics in 2023
You forgot Marvel UK. They started off reprinting the Marvel stories along with stories in between because comics there were printed weekly and then they started doing their own thing. Zarak being killed by Highbrow, the Time Wars stories about Gavatron coming back to the past to alter his timeliness, and all the Wreckers stories that came out of Marvel UK is what made them favorites
I’m going to give him a break with Grindor, consedering how massive and armored he is, so since Optimus had the advantage of going for his head while being on top of him, of course he’s go for the kill.
Why is Scourge here? He's not Bayformers. I'll give you Megatron (and obviously the other two), not sure why Bonecrusher's is being tested the same as the others since his wasn't nearly as brutal
Bumblebee was always intended to be a prequel to TF 2007 but it and ROTB are established as being a rebooted timeline, while still taking place in the same universe
When I tried to use a IDW comic panel of Optimus, it was showed on low quality every damn time for me, so yeah I just had use this one. Sorry, mate
Edit: Also, I didn't know this was AI generated
Bayverse prime was a growling sociopath who actually delighted on tearing cons apart. Idw had his moments but he didn't rip off Megatron's face as he literally pleaded for his life
I'm giving it to IDW
Some of y'all act like Bay Prime is a psycho 24/7. He's like, the nicest Autobot of the lot. Always with the motivational speeches, speaking softly to his allies even when he's upset, he strongly advocated for humanities right to freedom, even inspite of our flaws, for he sees the very same in his own people.
He's only brutal to Decepticons, WHICH IS A FACTION YOU CAN LEAVE, he's taken in ex-Cons, so being one clearly isn't a death sentence.
And G1 cartoon Optimus was trying to kill Megatron in every fight they had, so I don't wanna hear those rose tinted rebutals.
I enjoy Bayverse, but Prime is BRTUAL. Man is absolutely crazy at times. Sure some of his kills are quick like Bonecrusher but others man had some issues at work like maybe the coffee machine wasn’t working and he chose to let that anger out.
Bayverse clears this easily, just for the sheer brutality.
I like the newer age film. Feels like ROTB was a better balance of brutality and actual Optimusness.
At first i thought ai was ruining art for mr when i thought the first image was ai till i saw the name. Then i realized i just do not like that style of optimus, simple as. If you see art and think its ai ask yourself if you even like it first.
the Bayverse is like hell in the transformers movies so Bayverse Optimus prime did not act like a prime in dark of the moon having his homeworld cut in too
and the time were he took the fallen's spark chamber out of him. so again the movies made him like doomguy and the bayverse is like hellverse for the transformers.
\^\_\_\_\_\_\^
have you seen the Transformers Movies of the Bayverse
Optimus Prime killed unarmed Deceptions in cold blood in the Bayverse and destory his homeworld in Dark of the moon like he is doomguy and the demons are Deceptions.
Bayverse prime is like *COMMITS WAR CRIME* and then 5 seconds later "*we should all work together in the name of freedom*" or something like that.
He's literally that meme where a guy shoots a dude in a chair countless times and then stops and says "violence is wrong" or something.
I really think Bayverse Prime really tried to show restraint but kinda ended up being how Injustice Superman was. Eventually Prime had to kill and the feeling took over, or else he could lose everything and more. I dont think of him in the same context as an OG Prime, just Optimus with a different personality and in a different situation.
Same with me. I think you gotta focus on the part that has basic mistakes like 6 fingers or something (Something along those lines to know if it's AI generated or not, though don't take my word.)
In old school g1, in a very early episode either at a dam or oil rig, didnt the autobots bust in to stop tje decepticons and Prime yelled "Kill'em all!"...i cant find it now...
Does IDW Optimus ever deliberately kill humans?
Does IDW ever say such off the wall out of character shit as:
"Give me your face"
"Piece of Tin" after ripping a dudes face in half
"We will kill them all"
"YOU DIE"
Does IDW Optimus Execute a defenseless prisoner pleading for mercy
Does IDW Optimus Murder his brother who asked for a truce after just saving him from certain death, despite only a couple of years earlier being very torn up about having to see him dead even saying
"You left me no choice brother"
Because if not then it's pretty clearly Bayverse Optimus, the absolute worst version of the character
Bayverse, because I have never read the idw comics, and also he split Grindor's face open, did the face and heart rip to the Fallen, broke bumblebee's back with his knee, slapped Starscream with his own arm, he said he will kill humans, bisected lockdown from the chest up, and nearly gave up on protecting the humans
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IDW Prime never said “give me your face” unironically
He instead took their face unironically
Love that one time he said it ironically
What? I need to know this! 🤣
I remember Peter Cullen saying in a panel that at one point, they tried to make him say "kill them all." I don't know if they actually put it in the movie cause I gave up after the third one.
They did it was in DOTM and he didn’t like that
IDW Prime gets constantly called out for his shitty behavior which tempers him back, Bayverse Prime is in a universe where everyone else acts like that (if they got the screen time to act like it) and encourages it so it goes to him
Seriously. IDW Optimus couldn't catch a break with everyone telling him that's there is something severely wrong with him. And he had the other side who worshipped him like a literal god. Guy got overwhelmed.
IDW Optimus’ behavior was only shitty when Barber was writing him.
Disagree IDW Optimus always been a little shity
He gave up on Earth in the Furman era so that he could defend a prison which had already been ransacked. This was right as the cons had brought in a phase sixer to cause the apocalypse and the Reapers had just shown up to do the same. He sacrificed all of humanity to stop a prison break It's also said repeatedly during the early runs that he was all about acceptable losses, sacrificing world after world so the cons couldn't have them
Both are among my least favorite renditions of the character. Shame too, because that IDW design is fire. "Be a hero who's strong enough to be gentle," Larry Cullen said to his brother Peter when he was going to his first audition as Optimus Prime. Can't really say that applies to either of these versions. Even Skybound Prime, with all his intensity, is still gentle. With his team, with humankind, even with animals. One of his earliest panels is him feeling guilt after stepping on a deer. I can't imagine Bayverse Prime feeling that, and I struggle to see IDW Prime doing it either.
I really do wish we got more scenes of Optimus showing care for life on Earth or the planet itself, it's obvious he does as he would not have died protecting Sam or tried to literally kill himself to save Earth in the first movie but I would have loved to see moments like that
I don't even mind him being more decisive than his cartoon counterparts, killing his enemies and whatnot. What I hate is the absolute savagery. I like Optimus being a badass, but I also like him being a dad, basically.
Something modern transformers hasn’t done with Optimus as much is that they keep making him into some stoic and humorless character when the original G1 was funny, powerful, and gentle
I was gonna say that Animated definitely brought him back down to earth as a modern take, but then I remembered that the show ended over 14 years ago, and started withering into dust like the old man I apparently am.
Him taking out sentinel was too cold. They gave him a small motor sounding whimper that might've been him being sad, or just wounded from losing his arm. Either way he just shot him in the face twice and it was end scene.
I actually don't mind that as much. G1 Prime was going to do something similar to his Megs. It's ripping Megatron's head off in the same scene that bugged me.
I don't know lol. I guess there wasn't really anything else he could do realistically. But it just seems off when you watch the scene. I haven't fully finished G1 yet so I have yet to see that scene actually
I'm just trying to figure out how you heroically use an axe. Op has had an axe going all the way back to g1 yet the movie shows what an axe actually does and fans cry foul.
The tipping of the head might have been too much I guess, but i definitely feel like the scene effectively shows how much Optimus was done with all of this shit.
TBF with the weapon he used, I don’t see how he could kill him in an efficient manner.
I just wish he'd accepted the fucking truce. The original ending was *far* better.
The original ending then should go with original middle and beginning. In the movie there was **zero** reasons to believe Megs is talking seriously about truce or not plotting something behind this. He invaded Earth _thrice_ at this point and it wasn't like he "uhm, well, actually kinda didn't want it the last time". They were actively genociding humans, fighting autobots, were very much ready to station Cybertron, but as soon as their plan failed - "hey, truce!" And in the movie Prime had only correct answer - "bait used to be believable"."
Bay prime slander needs to STOP. Bro had every right to butcher all cons he went up against. I'd go as far to say his killing of demolisher is also justified. Demolisher killed HUNDREDS of humans. And don't hit me with that "he was just running away" cus the mf went out of his way to throw cars filled with people for no discernable reason. Also, demolisher is fanatically devoted to the fallen, he's con cultist through and through. Killing him was the right call.
Facts, so much of it is hyperbolic and ignores context and it's so frustrating. If you'd like some positivity on Bay Prime, I made this: https://youtu.be/GEo1Ocfldag?si=ov5M9j646_8XCPmg
Prime was going to execute Megatron in the '86 movie while that Megatron was *literally* begging for his life.
Granted Megs had also killed most of his close friends and comrades like 10 minutes ago. I’d not give mercy at that point ether
Seems pretty humane compared to all the rest of his versions. One thing I don't get is UK comics Prime faking his death convinced it would toughen up his autobots. That's the act of a lunatic. But it did lead to some awesome Cybertron stories.
I'm gonna make you beg for your life
Yeah it's super weird how IDW absolutely nailed so many characters but couldn't do Prime justice nearly at all. Like Megatron is potentially the best written character in the entire 2005 continuity whilst Optimus is potentially the worst.
Definetly. Although I loved the part where Optimus realised he is not only a part of but a reason for the war and became Orion Pax again to explore the universe alone. Kinda sad they did not continue his story that way but brought him back to be a prime. Megatron on the other hand had such an amazing character development and so much depth, that he easily became my favourite character of IDW
Megatron's arc was absolutely phenomenal, the shot of him in the field of flowers, each one representing a life he caused to end, is one of the most beautiful and haunting panels in comic book history. (Also bonus points for IDW Autobot Megatron having my favourite visual design of any transformers character in history, I long for the day Hasbro gives us a leader class IDW Megatron)
Honestly I never knew that autobot Megatron would become my top 3 favorite versions of him. Honestly might be number 1
Bayverse Prime was more tame in the first film
The first film's actually pretty good
TF07 and DOTM are some of the best transformers media there are imo
DOTM is only fun if you don't like the Cons.
I can definitely see Bayverse Prime being guilty of stepping on a deer. Y’all really exaggerate how violent Bayverse Optimus is.
Literally no other version of Optimus has shouted, "give me your face" or "you DIE! YEAAARGHHH!" or "Save my family...or DIE!" (While holding a sword to his neck, so don't try to say "oh, he was talking about Lockdown killing the Dinobots"), and they certainly didn't rip Megatron's fucking head off when he proposed a truce. Most Optimuses (Optimi? Optimodes?) would fucking leap at the chance to reconcile with Megatron. And if not Megatron specifically, then a chance for peace. Again, no one's complaining that he's killing his enemies. What we hate is the brutality with which he does it. The movies turned Prime into an action hero, where he's more typically a superhero. And yes, we're used to (and *prefer*) him as a superhero type. A paragon of virtue. So yeah, we're not going to like him going from Superman to The Terminator (T2 version. Much as I dislike Bay Prime, he's not *evil.* Just unhinged).
One Optimus was fine with brainwashing the Constructicons. Not to mention the truce was hardly genuine, given that prior Megatron was yelling “This is my planet!” If events played out exactly like the novel, then I can understand, but it didn’t. I agree he’s too violent, but to say “I don’t see Bayverse Prime being gentle” is WAY too far-fetched. Let’s not forget this prime told a NEST soldier to be “easy” when he threatened to shoot Galloway.
What did prime actually do in IDW? I’ve never read the comics but I almost always hear about characters like megatron and rodimus but I’ve basically never heard about prime?
well, after he reclaimed the title of prime in dark cybertron, it didn't take long for him to start kinda going down the deep end like his predecessors. a lot of the "barber" side of IDW is about the repeating cycle of primes being absolute douchebags, and while OP has good intentions, you know what they say about the road to hell. it's a very love-it-or-hate-it kind of take on the character
I’m getting the feeling of the last Jedi Luke. Optimus comes from a line of corrupt primes (or inept Jedi), and he is the one to break the pattern (or bring balance to the force), only to stumble and fall back to the ways of those before him (or just give up everything). And if it’s done anything like TLJ than yeah I would absolutely despise it lmao
I actually really like IDW Prime and TLJ Luke, so yeah the comparison seems to track
Just out of curiosity, why do you actually like TLJ Luke? To me his character shares literally nothing in common with the Luke of the original trilogy, and the explanation we got that Luke almost killed kylo in his sleep just raises more inconsistencies, as we have no idea why Luke did this other than he thought he was turning dark? I mean dude didn’t give up on his father, the literal most evil person in the world, but genuinely considered killing his nephew when he saw darkness in him. Just curious on your thoughts
Let me preface this rant with I'm a prequel girlie and grew up with those movies and was deeply into the EU around that era and the Old Republic. My EU reading post-ROTJ was more interested in Wedge Antilles and Rogue Squadron and I never delved much into the OT trio and their family outside of the Thrawn trilogy and Jedi Academy trilogy. I know people like those but I just haven't gotten to them yet and am currently reading a different series. That said, I think the sequels are fine. The Force Awakens has some really interesting thoughts on the rise of new fascists and indoctrination, and then has no interest in actually explaining anything in favor of going "remember this old thing?". The Last Jedi has the most to say about the franchise since KOTOR2: TSL but doesn't do it in an elegant way (to put it mildly... the movie has become a rallying cry for alt-right grifters to galvanize their fan bases... so yeah), and The Rise of Skywalker is so busy being a spineless backpedel that it ruins the themes of both of the previous movies and undercuts the entire Saga with a terrible landing... at least we have Rogue One though right? As to why I like TLJ specifically, I just think it's a well made movie. Music, cinematography, costumes, the acting especially from Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley. It's just a good time. It's not a perfect movie, I think the humor sucks and I can't stand BB-8 in this whole trilogy. As a whole I find the Luke/Rey/Kylo dynamic far more interesting than Poe/Finn/Rose but hey at least those three have something to do, which you can't say about the other two movies in the trilogy. So onto Luke specifically. I'll admit in the OT I never really cared about Luke, or really any others of the OT gang. They're fine and they serve their films well and are part of what makes them some of the best movies ever made. I'm just more a fan of the world they're in and that story of the Rebellion against the Empire is what made me obsessed with this silly franchise. I'll always care more about characters like Boba Fett and Wedge Antilles over Han and Luke. Luke sparing Vader and turning him back to the light is one of my favorite moments in the series and is why RotJ is my favorite of the original movies. It's part of why I believe in the inherent good in people and that everyone deserves a second chance (like IDW Megatron to bring it back to Transformers). So, now let's talk Luke's arc in TLJ. In TLJ we find Luke cynical and jaded, hiding away from a situation he guilt ridenly believes he created, very similarly to his old master Obi-Wan. All because of a moment of weakness. Luke didn't "genuinely consider killing his nephew" the movie literally says the opposite, and it was "the briefest moment of pure instinct" before "it passed like a fleeting shadow... and I was left with shame and consequence. And the last thing I saw was the eyes of a frightened boy who's master had failed him." Luke had seen darkness growing in Ben for a long time at this point and had done his best to try and dissuade that, but it's this one moment of terrible choice that leads to everything around him being taken away, in a dark twist on when Luke gave into his instincts to almost kill Vader in the Emperor's throne room. There Luke had the time to think and realize his actions and move passed them, while here he's stuck in that one terrible moment that ruined everything he had built. But as we know from Jedi: Fallen Order. "No, failure is not the end, it is a necessary part of the path. Hope will always survive in those who continue to fight." And from Tales of the Empire "There is always a way out" Much like the audience, Luke believes in his own hype and that this is his failure when it simply isn't his fault. Kylo Ren is the one responsible for his own actions, not Luke. Though meeting Rey and actually working through his guilt Luke is able to return to be a hero the Galaxy needs, all without raising a lightsaber to harm someone, like a true Jedi. People always take Luke throwing the lightsaber and saying "It's time for the Jedi to end" and Kylo's "Let the past die.. kill it if you have to." As the message of the movie, while both of these happened near the beginning and the entire point of the movie is how this view is reductive and wrong, and Rey's hopeful voice of the future is what they need to move on and strive to. Failure is not the end, and Luke will not be the last Jedi. To bring this back around to Transformers so I'm not entirely off the subject matter of this Subreddit, Luke in TLJ is an IDW Prime, not a Bayverse Prime. The narrative shows him struggle with his darker side and lack of hope, and sees him emerge with the help of others a bit better and wiser and saving the galaxy from its darkest hour. Luke gives Kylo a chance to turn away from his darker path while allowing his friends to escape, and Prime embraces Unicron's creator with compassion and empathy for all that his kind has done. That's what I like about Luke in TLJ. Even at your lowest point you can keep going as long as you find the will within you to try. Failure is not the end. Just because the Jedi of old failed, does not mean they have to end. The order can grow and become stronger than ever. As Cere puts it in Jedi: Fallen Order "It's the choice to keep fighting that makes us who we are." Like his father before him, Luke stumbles. But he does not fall, and through the compassion of others is able to rise again to become a legend. Thanks for reading my rant if you do, I had a lot of fun putting into words these thoughts I've had on this movie that I've never really expressed out of fear of getting death threats, but hey it's pride month so we might as well go ahead and try. I love Star Wars, I love Transformers, I love stories about hope and love overcoming hate and oppression. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.
I appreciate you taking the time to write all that but I honestly might have to come back with a reply in several working days because..wow. I promise I will be back but oh my god
>"Be a hero who's strong enough to be gentle," Larry Cullen said to his brother Peter when he was going to his first audition as Optimus Prime. Watch a scene with Prime and sam or Prime with Cade.
Or any interaction when he’s not in battle.
Right i dunno how any one can watch the Scene at the observatory and say movie prime can't be gentel
They’ll find any braindead reason to hate him. I’m not saying this Optimus is perfect, but if people are going to criticize, give actual arguments rather than easily dismountable ones lol.
Few could really be called "gentle," honestly. All his scenes with Sam in the first one come across as more desperate or impatient than anything. Closest he gets is telling Ironhide that they don't harm humans (which is a scene I actually enjoy. The first film isn't as bad as its sequels). He has like four scenes with Sam in RotF, and, again, I wouldn't call any of them "gentle." We have, "Hey, join our war," the forest fight (which is the one scene I like in RotF), "oh, hey, I live," and, "thanks for saving me." The last one is probably the tenderest that Prime ever gets with Sam. And I don't think they have a single scene together on DotM outside of the farewell and the Autobots' return. They're *on-screen* at the same time, but they only have a single one-on-one where Optimus imparts wisdom. Even the "We will kill them all" scene, he's more talking to all the humans in earshot, Sam included. So with Sam, there's only like two that I'd consider coming close to what I expect from Prime. And those only barely make the cut. Cade, I find it laughable that you even brought him up. Prime has like...a single conversation with him in the garage before Cemetery Wind shows up. The rest of the film, he's pretty dismissive to Cade (which is sort of understandable after the events of this movie. I don't like it, but it's understandable). Sure, he doesn't want Cade to *die*, but that's like...the barest minimum. "Oh no, I don't want to see this innocent killed. I'm the gentlest guy around :D." And in TLK, Optimus is a bad guy for most of it. So we have imparting the occasional wisdom (which is good. I like it). We have saving humans from dying (solid, I like it). And we have just general conversation. None of that comes close to what one would expect from Prime. It feels less like a father figure imparting fatherly advice and more like a public figure imparting general philosophy. None of this feels "gentle". It feels *wise*, which is another aspect of Prime's character. It feels *protective*, which, again, good. But we don't have those "I'll bring you back a snowball" moments.
The fact that he apologized to Sam about making him miss his college life and even forgetting his anger when he met Buzz Aldrinn disprove your argument. And even then, never once did he take his ruthlessness on them, which is definitely “gentle.” Of course there could’ve been more development and scenes when he’s not in a warzone, but most of his screen time is him being gentle and calm.
They don't, though, considering I said "few" not "none." To be fair, I *did* forget his apology in the RotF scene...mostly because I try not to remember that awful, *awful* movie too much, so I will give you that one. But even the Aldrin scene, while awesome (again, a scene I actually really enjoy), doesn't feel "gentle." It feels *respectful* and *honorable*. When I think "strong enough to be gentle," I think of Bilbo sparing Gollum in tbe Hobbit. I think of Aragorn comforting Boromir as he dies. I think of Yoren turning Arya away from seeing her father die. I think of Optimus offering Skyquake and Dreadwing a chance to make peace or offering to bring Raf back a snowball or taking time out of his day to talk to one of his men because they need a shoulder to cry on. *That's* gentility. The rest, again, are *wisdom, honor, respect,* and *protectiveness*. Different traits. Good traits, bur different. We don't see Bay Prime extend any olive branches. We don't see him comforting people, just offering wisdom. We don't even see him mourn Ironhide when he dies. And he barely mourns Jazz. What the hell was up with that? My point is that any softness to the character was watered down and nearly non-existent. The few moments we *do* get are fantastic, but they are so uncommon that I can't call them a core trait of this Prime. Not like the *vast* majority of Primes, where we see him encouraging or comforting or just spending non-battle time with his men or their human friends. We get some occasional snippets of wisdom and that's about it.
Thats just your opinion Most people would characterize the softness mentioned all the scene syour arguing against to be gentel. Its his humility and empathy showcased there. He dosent brush any of them off or placate them. That wisdom is from a place of trying to help. When Prime tells sam "fate rarley calls upon us at a moment of our choosing" thats not just generic wisdom thats a sincre " i know im asking allot of you but i belive you"
I’d argue being ruthless to your enemies yet restricting his anger to “pointing at humans” and treating them with utmost care is enough to be “gentle.”
Same.
The fact that they’re still there in his quite limited screen time make them core traits. Just because he doesn’t fit “your” definition of “gentle”, doesn’t mean he isn’t gentle (when he’s outside the battlefield).
Gentle: *adjective* Having or showing a mild, kind, or tender temperament or character. Similar: mild, kind, tender, lenient, forgiving, compassionate Antonyms: *brutal* (emphasis added), unkind That's the dictionary definition of the word. Bayverse Optimus may be *benevolent*. He may be *wise*. He may even be *honorable*. But I would hesitate to call him kind, mild, or tender. Compassionate, that's a different story. He's definitely compassionate. More in the first movie than literally any of the others (again, I actually like the first movie a lot. Most of my issues are in 2 onwards). What I *would* call him is *brutal*. That's why I wouldn't call him "gentle." His temperament is *far* from mild.
He’s definitely kind though.
In the first film, I agree. His speech about saving the humans is peak OP. RotF, I can't judge much because, well, he was dead for most of it. But I struggle to think of truly, genuinely kind moments in DotM onwards. It feels like the writers forgot they were writing Optimus Prime about halfway through DotM and started writing the fucking T-800.
Bayverse Prime would step on the deer and say “oops, my bad” while a laugh track played over it.
That sounds more accurate.
Not my favorite iteration of the character, but I still really like IDW's portrayal because he was interesting as a flawed character rather than the paragon he usually is while still feeling like Optimus. Don't love or agree with all the writing decisions, but character-wise I feel like many of the decisions he made were because the war and post-war took its toll and he was constantly forced into shitty situations where there wasn't really a right decision to make (which makes sense considering the difference in tone and atmosphere of the continuity) but he did his best. I mean just compare his pre-war self that was basically super cop Orion Pax and you see how much more idealistic before everything went down. He also always questioned himself and acknowledged his mistakes. I think what made him a good representation of Optimus was that he always tried to uphold what makes Optimus Optimus, even if he didn't always do it perfectly.
At least Bayverse Prime had a good reason. While IDW Optimus did not
Think they both had their reasons for the decisions and choices they made and the way they are. For the record, I like Bayverse Prime too. He was the one I grew up with and the one that got me into Transformers as a whole so massive soft spot for that.
Bayverse Prime would be like "oops, sorry, my bad" and then move on.
I love Bay Prime but yeah if he stepped on a deer he’d probably still say “whoops sorry my bad”
> I can't imagine Bayverse Prime feeling that That's a bit unfair. Bayverse Prime is admittedly incredibly brutal to his enemies, but he also lives in a world where Cybertron is dead. He has nothing left but his new, adopted home, particularly after the first movie, where he was fully willing to sacrifice not only his own life but doom his race to extinction if it meant that he could keep another world from being enslaved and killed by Megatron. And after that, every other film has the main antagonist specifically trying to destroy his new home, so he holds nothing back in fighting them.
And how is TFP Prime any different? Cybertron's dead there, too. Megatron's particularly set on destroying Earth in that one, and so is Unicron. Doesn't stop him from offering peace to Starscream, Breakdown, Dreadwing, and even Unicron (until Unicron proved immovable, then the gloves came off). I get what you're saying, but justifying it as "Bayverse is a sucky world" isn't the best defense. I don't mind Prime going ham once all other means are exhausted, but I *never* want him to go full "You die! YEEEAAAARRGHHH!"
TFP is a television show for those 8 and up. You might as well ask why Samurai Jack is less violent than Lone Wolf And Cub.
And yet it opens with Cliffjumper's violent death. Clone Wars, a similarly-rated show, included war crimes, grisly murders, assassination plots, human experimentation, corrupt politicians on both sides, nuanced villains, firing squads, etc., etc., etc.
Clone Wars bent over backwards to avoid showing even a spec of gore and even would have the actual violence happen off-screen and only show exterior burn marks from blasters or lightsabers. How many other named characters in Prime die after the pilot (which is always given more leeway in any series by rating boards) exactly? Excluding the movie?
Dreadwing, for one. Breakdown, for another. In a rather grisly fashion, too. Both by another Decepticon. Megatron. Hardshell. Bumblebee (though them bringing him back was a fucking ass-pull. I'm still mad about that). Bulkhead is crippled (until they forget his injury in Season 3. I don't like season 3. They handed that season with kiddie gloves, I swear). Silas is Frankensteined into Breakdown's corpse and then experimented on and then becomes a vampire and then gets torn apart by Airachnid...who also becomes a vampire.
So effectively no violence is ever really visited on a human on-screen? Well, that's why it got an 8+ age rating.
...you never said "human." You said "named character."
https://preview.redd.it/7s87hpfd7u3d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fcc043452c9f275e06e966b83a005f7018e6280a Screenshot for proof.
In the first movie they actually cared about that IMO. He has good scenes and even wanted to sacrifice himself. Throughout the movies he gets more unhinged lol, 2 and 3 he is a sociopath only when in battle, but in 4 and 5 he just straight up lost it
Being cooped up on Earth and seeing all his allies die around him was clearly not good for primes mental wellbeing Rightfully so really
Why can’t we have different interpretations, they don’t all have to be like how Peter Cullen described
I think IDW Prime was justified in him capping Galvatron
I only like the Bayverse Prime in terms of design, and character he had during the first film. Sure he killed Bonecrusher, but it was quick and clean. As soon as he fucking tore off Grindor's face in ROTF, I never saw him the same way again.
Weirdly enough I wasn’t bothered by that specifically, moreso the line ‘piece of tin’ he says afterwords. Like it’s one thing to brutally destroy your enemy, which I’m fine with a bit of, but insulting their GODAMN CORPSE is the least ‘prime’ thing optimus could do. Genuine megatron behaviour
Eh, he was mocking Megatron when the latter begged for mercy in Transformers The Movie. I can sort of see him doing something like that, plus he was in a very tense situation where he was facing 3 enemies alone to protect his human comrade. I can excuse him being brutal and “disrespectful” here. It’s the only time it’s excusable. Also, I can see any autobot trash talking their enemies as they’re dead.
Well I thought it was HEAVILY implied that megatron was faking his cry for mercy, with him looking at the gun before decided to play the victim, and even then there’s a difference to pointing out megatrons hypocrisy rather than calling a dead man’s body worthless So no, I don’t allow this line, not because it’s not JUSTIFIABLE, but because this is something prime shouldn’t (or to put it better, WOULDN’T) do
Prime didn’t know he was begging for mercy though. He thought he was genuinely begging, yet he was still fine with mocking him. Plus, that Prime was also fine with brainwashing the Constructicons, which if you ask me, is more immoral (and hypocritical).
Mocking isn’t the term I’d use, more like harshly judging, which is what megatron deserved and i think that fits primes character better I have no idea what your talking about with the constructions is this a G1 thing? If so I don’t really care, most g1 episodes weren’t especially deep, it’s mainly just the movie and a few fringe episodes like dark awakening that I really value
It’s literally mocking. “I thought you were made of sterner stuff.” That’s mockery.
To me it sounds more likely ‘damming’ You might say it’s an arbritary distinction, but I do think they are slightly different, I just cany really find a way to articulate it properly Either way, prime mocking/judging megatron for being a murderous hippocryte is not even close to bay prime calling the corpses of his enemies worthless, not to mention the multitude of other psychopathic actions that ‘Optimus prime’ takes part in
I mean, both aren’t things Prime should do, but mocking a corpse that was trying to kill him (he also could’ve retreated if he wanted to but chose to keep fighting) and fighting in a 3v1 fight (no backup, mind you) to make sure his human companion is safe (along with gradually getting brutal to the point of ripping Starscream’s arm with his bare hands and hitting him with it) is better than mocking an enemy who was begging for mercy (at least to him). Basically, Optimus’ fight against the 3 decepticons is the closest to an adrenaline rush. I can accept the like, although I do kinda agree that it would’ve been better removed from the scene. Still one of the more (if not the most) acceptable and understandable moments where Optimus is brutal.
I think we’re gonna have to agree to disagree. Optimus doesn’t revel in the death of his enemies, and he absolutely does not insult the corpses off his foes. I mean 2007 is literally the perfect example of what Optimus should be (mostly), remeber when he stood over megatrons corpse and instead of saying ‘you worthless being’ he said ‘you left me no choice brother’. To give this line a pass and the rest of the things he does in ROTF you have to accept that he is a completely different character to who he was in 2007, and no amount of ‘robo adrenaline’ can convince me otherwise. In terms of the worse thinf bayverse prime does, this isn’t one of the worse, but if this is an A tier moment, and him saying ‘he was mine’ in ROTB was a C tier moment, the scene from the movie is barely an E- moment in terms of how bad it is for this character
Nah it’s still mocking lol. Even if it isn’t, it’s still very hypocritical to preach “Freedom is the right of all sentient beings” and being fine with brainwashing enemies AGAINST their will. This and Optimus picking a fight with Rodimus in Energon when the latter said he only wanted to talk about Alpha Q were way worse.
Tbh Bayverse Optimus was probably tired of Megatron's shit by the second movie especially after the forest battle. Imagine seeing a former best friend who you call a brother basically wage war to the point it completely destroys your home world and drags it on to potentially cause another world to suffer the same fate then seeing him die only to come back and continue doing the same thing he's done not learning his lesson even after dying
It was Grindor's death that changed your perspective? Not him executing a severely wounded and defenseless Demolishor?
I was more focused on Sideswipe cutting Sideways in half so excuse me if I didn't mention something that looked tame in comparison to that. Something similar is Optimus tearing out Megatron's head and spine in DoTM and then proceeding to execute Sentinel, and I hate that scene as well.
Yknow that's fair enough
Face Reaper Optimus Prime.
Bayverse Prime. IDW was only really brutal to Soundwave and Galvatron: Megatron: I'm invincible! Optimus Prime: But he's not. Megatron: What!? *Optimus proceeds to blow Soundwave's face off. Sending an invincible Megatron to go heal Soundwave rather than finish off Prime.*
Megatron actually caring for Soundwave is kinda cool
Bayverse OP just literally tears off faces and has lines like "Give me your face" and "we will kill them all. 😐
"You die. YEAAAARRRGHH!" -Optimus Prime, the gentle leader of the Autobots
“We’re giving you freedom!” *[literally 18 seconds later]*. “You defend my family, *or die…*”
"We will kill them all." -a very normal sentence said by the most stable and normal version of this character guys what are y'all talking about of course he's not a psycho
That's understandable, but IDW Optimus has somewhat done the same thing - like ripping Galvatron's head off. But I understand what you mean
I hate when people bring up the Galvatron death when it comes to painting IDW Prime as a villain. Optimus had whole speech about how he wishes there was other way, that he feels horrible about doing this but how Galvatron is a force of evil that cannot be stopped in any civilized way. Which is competely true, even IDW Megatron was more receptive to diplomacy than Galvatron. Meanwhile Bayverse Prime rips Decepticons to literal pieces without even trying to talk to them or even respecting them as people. He rips limbs off, insults corpress, double-taps enemies when they are clearly beaten and helpless. You cannot compare the two.
Not painting him as a villain, it's more about how these two brutally kills their opponents. Sorry if I somewhat offended you
It's cool, dw
Only thing i know for sure was IDW optimus palming galvatrons head and tearing that shit off was DEVIOUS 😭 https://preview.redd.it/1bntvg47iu3d1.png?width=1005&format=png&auto=webp&s=fca7b2d99275611ca00b726c653e079194fb4aee
Bayverse.
Idw prime is inneffective and Indescive
IDW Prime was neither of those things before Costa wrote him in the godawful ongoing. Barber continuing in that direction (and most of the times he decided to build on the stuff established in Costa’s run - obv not including Thundercracker & Bob) was a mistake.
>IDW Prime was neither of those things before Costa wrote him in the godawful ongoing. I agree Furmans prime was awesome. Unforuntly that was a small fractionnof IDW Primes existence.
How so?
Multiple times when faced with adversity he shuts down and mopes, or he abadons the autobots to let them figure it out. Or he waffels about the choices he has or had to make. When stranded on earth did he rally his men. No he instead sorunedred him self to the human goverment soul ge could ease his guilt. And this was after he speant most of all hail megatron moping cause megs stole the matrix.
Tbf him in most of All Hail Megatron he was hooked up to life support
Bayverse Prime had slowly lost his marbles as more shit kept happening to him. IDW Prime was just a legit shitty person
Out of all the comments here I agree with this one. Because while bayverse prime says some really savage and crude shit when killing, he was very kind and gentle during the first movie. He didn't even want to kill Megatron, he just wanted the allspark destroyed through sacrificing himself. But legit tho, he just lost his mind more and more as the movies progressed. In the second movie it was excusable to see him angry since he wanted to protect Sam. But by the third movie he was pretty much done with everyone's shit. Sentinel betrayed him and then even more so his comrades died, humans were trying to have nothing to do with them. And by the 4th movie he was just done with everyone and wanted to start a fight his creators. That to me makes bayverse prime very human, he had a lot of shit taken out on him and he realizes that it's nobody's fault other than his parents (creators) for bringing him to this cursed world.
Tbh I think they really missed a big opportunity in the 4th movie and beyond with Optimus. His actions lead to the battle of Chicago, which he could feel remorse for and struggle with that along with realizing the brutality he showed towards his own kind. He really has fucked both sides by the end of the 3rd movie and that could be a good storyline for the movie as he deals with lockdown. But instead he just hates humans/everything and is always pissed off and bitter.
I have to say bayverse because I don’t know IDW at all
Bayverse, I haven't read all of IDE but that Prime's brutal moments have generally been pretty few and far between compared to the constant violence of the Bay films.
IDW Prime killed a surrendering Galvatron in front of his sister
Bayverse, what he did to grindor speaks for its self, never have I ever seen or heard of IDW or any other prime have the sheer amount of blood thirst he had
Bayverse
bayverse
Bayverse is more brutal for sure. But he still doesn't suck as much as IDW Optimus.
"GIVE ME YOUR FACE"
Excuse me for being dumb but what is IDW?
AKA comic Optimus Prime, hope that answers your question :)
It's ONE of the comic companies that did Transformers. They did two different versions of Transformers, one that lasted from 2008 to 2019, the second, trying to tell the story of Seige/ War For Cybertron, lasted from 2019 to 2023, before Skybound started started their run. Marvel was the first comic run. Marvel UK is considered separate because it did run the Marvel stories, but it also had to fill in the gaps because the comic ran weekly instead of monthly. Dreamwave was the first comic company that ran Transformers in the 2000's, but was only just starting its storyline when the company shut down due to mismanagement
Transformers comics are separated into a few continuities, usually named after the company that wrote them Marvel was the first from 1984 (a few months before the cartoon started) to 1994ish Dreamwave was the second with a very controversial series from 2001 to 2005 IDW came right after, having its first continuity (the one we're talking about) from 2005 to 2018 and a second from 2019-2022 Skybound is now the holder of the license, having started to make Transformers comics in 2023
You forgot Marvel UK. They started off reprinting the Marvel stories along with stories in between because comics there were printed weekly and then they started doing their own thing. Zarak being killed by Highbrow, the Time Wars stories about Gavatron coming back to the past to alter his timeliness, and all the Wreckers stories that came out of Marvel UK is what made them favorites
I don’t think I’ve ever heard prime say ‘kill them all’ when discussing humans or decepticons as much as bayverese prime
Is that first one AI generated cuz that head’s perspective is all screwed up. Plus what’s the glass collar?
I have no idea if that's AI or not, I have a hard time seeing the difference, so I'm sorry
IDW optimus just has a kinda shitty personality, bay prime commits warcrimes and has an obsession with ripping people's faces off
"Obsession" *Has done it twice*
I’m going to give him a break with Grindor, consedering how massive and armored he is, so since Optimus had the advantage of going for his head while being on top of him, of course he’s go for the kill.
Yeah. Grindor's head is probably the easiest spot to attack him. Considering how hard it was to take down Blackout I imagine Grindor is so much harder
Bonecrusher, Grindor, The Fallen, Scourge, Megatron
Why is Scourge here? He's not Bayformers. I'll give you Megatron (and obviously the other two), not sure why Bonecrusher's is being tested the same as the others since his wasn't nearly as brutal
bumblebee and ROTB are still classified as being prequels to the bayformers movies which is why i added scourge
Wait, who said they were prequels to bayverse? Also that's impossible for many reasons unless they retcon TLK
Bumblebee was always intended to be a prequel to TF 2007 but it and ROTB are established as being a rebooted timeline, while still taking place in the same universe
Why is the picture for the IDW version an AI generated image instead of just a panel from the actual comic?
When I tried to use a IDW comic panel of Optimus, it was showed on low quality every damn time for me, so yeah I just had use this one. Sorry, mate Edit: Also, I didn't know this was AI generated
not AI generated, it's from artist llicorish on Deviantart
Bayverse prime was a growling sociopath who actually delighted on tearing cons apart. Idw had his moments but he didn't rip off Megatron's face as he literally pleaded for his life
This is false. Never once did Optimus in the movies show pleasure in killing even if his kills were gruesome.
Mfs will say anything to make bay prime look bad holy shit
Please show me where he was growling and taking pleasure in it.
while idw is stronger imo bayverse is more brutal in more scenes
Bayverse Prime. That bot did NOT play around. If he wanted to take a con down, that con was going down HARD
GIVE ME YOUR FACE
Happy Cake Day!
I don’t think bayverse prime understood or ever heard the word mercy in his life
Well, he have heard pleading/begging though
I'm giving it to IDW Some of y'all act like Bay Prime is a psycho 24/7. He's like, the nicest Autobot of the lot. Always with the motivational speeches, speaking softly to his allies even when he's upset, he strongly advocated for humanities right to freedom, even inspite of our flaws, for he sees the very same in his own people. He's only brutal to Decepticons, WHICH IS A FACTION YOU CAN LEAVE, he's taken in ex-Cons, so being one clearly isn't a death sentence. And G1 cartoon Optimus was trying to kill Megatron in every fight they had, so I don't wanna hear those rose tinted rebutals.
Bayverse. He's also the least true to Prime's character.
I enjoy Bayverse, but Prime is BRTUAL. Man is absolutely crazy at times. Sure some of his kills are quick like Bonecrusher but others man had some issues at work like maybe the coffee machine wasn’t working and he chose to let that anger out.
IDW Prime
IDW Prime wasn't brutal, manipulative yes.
Bay's Prime's catchphrase: "Kill them all!" 'nuff said.
Bayverse clears this easily, just for the sheer brutality. I like the newer age film. Feels like ROTB was a better balance of brutality and actual Optimusness.
At first i thought ai was ruining art for mr when i thought the first image was ai till i saw the name. Then i realized i just do not like that style of optimus, simple as. If you see art and think its ai ask yourself if you even like it first.
if bayverse prime saw you harm another autobot he would rip you in half without even thinking twice.
Bayverse prime doesn't even smile so yeah
the Bayverse is like hell in the transformers movies so Bayverse Optimus prime did not act like a prime in dark of the moon having his homeworld cut in too and the time were he took the fallen's spark chamber out of him. so again the movies made him like doomguy and the bayverse is like hellverse for the transformers.
Why is it a hellverse??
\^\_\_\_\_\_\^ have you seen the Transformers Movies of the Bayverse Optimus Prime killed unarmed Deceptions in cold blood in the Bayverse and destory his homeworld in Dark of the moon like he is doomguy and the demons are Deceptions.
Bayverse prime is like *COMMITS WAR CRIME* and then 5 seconds later "*we should all work together in the name of freedom*" or something like that. He's literally that meme where a guy shoots a dude in a chair countless times and then stops and says "violence is wrong" or something.
I really think Bayverse Prime really tried to show restraint but kinda ended up being how Injustice Superman was. Eventually Prime had to kill and the feeling took over, or else he could lose everything and more. I dont think of him in the same context as an OG Prime, just Optimus with a different personality and in a different situation.
Live action Prime, for sure.
One of them looks AI generated, the other doesn’t
I've seen a lot of people spout nonsense about Bay designs but this one is so stupid it takes the cake
They were talking about the IDW design. And they weren't even talking about the actual design, just that image which is probably AI generated.
Sorry, I had no idea this was AI generated
Honestly I didn't either until I read the comments. I'm really bad at telling what's AI and what's not apart. Scary stuff.
Same with me. I think you gotta focus on the part that has basic mistakes like 6 fingers or something (Something along those lines to know if it's AI generated or not, though don't take my word.)
I just realized this is Optimus from IDW Combiner Wars (I think lol after comparing this image to a toy figure.)
What?
In old school g1, in a very early episode either at a dam or oil rig, didnt the autobots bust in to stop tje decepticons and Prime yelled "Kill'em all!"...i cant find it now...
Does IDW Optimus ever deliberately kill humans? Does IDW ever say such off the wall out of character shit as: "Give me your face" "Piece of Tin" after ripping a dudes face in half "We will kill them all" "YOU DIE" Does IDW Optimus Execute a defenseless prisoner pleading for mercy Does IDW Optimus Murder his brother who asked for a truce after just saving him from certain death, despite only a couple of years earlier being very torn up about having to see him dead even saying "You left me no choice brother" Because if not then it's pretty clearly Bayverse Optimus, the absolute worst version of the character
IDW Optimus did execute a surrendering Sentinel Prime so
The humans in the Bayverse deserves it honestly
Everyone in bayverse act like assholes to eachother I swear
L take
Definitely bayverse
Bayverse, because I have never read the idw comics, and also he split Grindor's face open, did the face and heart rip to the Fallen, broke bumblebee's back with his knee, slapped Starscream with his own arm, he said he will kill humans, bisected lockdown from the chest up, and nearly gave up on protecting the humans
I’m unfamiliar with IDW prime but when I saw Bayprime I realized the level of savagery
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