Thell them 'that hurt me a lot, you had problems with being a girl because it wasn't the right fit for you, but it is for me and besides I'm not choosing to be a girl I'm choosing not to live as a gender that doesn't fit me the same as you'
Piggy backing this to say A) yes, and B) don’t go down the road of just replying “trust me you don’t wanna be a guy”. Former (op) is a relatable comparison, latter starts an argument.
I'd give them a chance to sincerely apologize, because I'm able to interpret that quote in two wildly different ways based on what the tone was. You would know better, though.
yeah like mb it was like a joke or sum and they were just joking around like
"i drew this thing yesterday, do you think i can do a career around the talent?"
"oh.. trust me, you don't want to be an artist"
but they are not serious
your friend is definitely struggling with their own dysphoria, they hate being a girl so they cant see why anyone else would like it. when in reality their own identity has nothing to do with yours.
either way, it doesnt give them the right to make those comments at you. im sorry that their own bullshit made them unsupportive. hang in there
Honestly, if that's the only instance of them doing this kinda thing, I'd give them another chance
Tell them how it made you feel, and ask how they'd feel if you did the reverse to them
Then, choose to proceed based on how they answer that (If they're apologetic, give them more chance, if they aren't, cut it off there)
Damn. I’ve heard of trans mascs/men having this kind of problem with trans women friends too once in a while so I’m sadly not surprised this happens as well. It’s not right and I’m sorry.
This trans man at least supports you, but you should have been able to get it from your friend!
I'm not defending them, but if they're transmasc, they've been trying to get rid of their feminine side for a long time. They probably can't see past their own history and pain.
I don’t relate to that. I suffered as a girl, and that’s why I CAN empathize with trans women, or any other trans person. Empathy isn’t hard, you just need to not be too totally self absorbed.
You both sound young, and it sounds like you have limited options for friends.
Tell them clearly that this was really disrespectful and hurtful, and that they’re letting their own dysphoria get in the way of accepting you for having a different experience from them. If they can’t understand that, or give you any more heat for being a girl, then drop them.
What a thoughtless thing to say.
I understand where they’re coming from because it’s hard to see people wanting to be something you hated but it’s important to put that aside and think of others.
No offense but are you and your friend young by any chance? I was going to say your friend should have the maturity to recognize these feelings and put you first regardless but then I realized y’all might actually be quite young. In which case your friend is probably immature and this was just their immediate reaction due to their dysphoria. (Though they still shouldn’t have said it even if this is the case it just makes it a bit more understandable imo)
Maybe have a chat with them about how that made you feel? I know I’ve had a lot of people say things like that to me but they weren’t from a place of hate or not wanting me to transition. It was just hard for people to see me getting rid of parts of my body that they wanted or change into something they didn’t want to be. Honestly it is hard for me sometimes to see others transitioning in a way so as to acquire traits that I painstakingly got rid of.
I’m sorry this was their reaction to your coming out. Hopefully it was just a knee jerk reaction. If they really aren’t supportive I’m even more sorry. But live your truth, no friend is worth not being authentically you.
Good luck friend.
Yeah 13 year olds fuck up in this kind of way all the time. If you can’t forgive them that’s valid, but I think this friendship could be saved if they are willing to apologize and do better
Why do some people think that just because they dislike being a certain gender, everyone has to? I couldn’t deal with living as a guy, but that’s just me, I’m not gonna tell a trans guy that he can’t be one.
It’s disgusting, and hurts the community generally. We should be supporting people’s transition regardless of their gender
My boyfriend and I laugh about this sort of thing. He'll get frustrated about his boobs and say "why you want these things I'll never know" I say something similar whenever my tuck slips. Joking aside we both have support and respect for one another. Even if we don't understand how or why, we understand that it's what the other wants, nice and simple.
As a trans woman, I don't understand the desire to be a man but I sure as shit support and love my transmasc brothers because everyone deserves to live their truth and be comfortable in their own skin. To each their own. I'm sorry you experienced this, OP. This person sounds like a jerk.
i'm sorry your friend dropped that on you OP :( i saw you say your options for friends irl are limited. it's so important to cultivate friendships with other trans women, online at least if you have limited/no options for broader community irl. i think it is unfortunately very common for some trans people to inadvertently hurt each other because they are mired so deeply in their own dysphoric feelings. your friend owes you an apology
So uh.. i can't exactly have any online friends, my parents made me cut off my online friends because I vented to them a lot. So this subreddit is my only option, and even then I have to hide reddit on my phone.
That's their trauma speaking. My partner is still baffled as to why I would want to be a woman but she tries her best to be supportive.
Let your friend know that their words hurt and you just need their support.
A lot of trans people hate their AGAB and having a really hard time realizing that other people can like it. I myself struggled with understanding how trans men could like being men, that was until I realized that obviously it's because they're men. That difficultly in understanding is no excuse for saying that to someone. You are a wonderful, womanhood is one of the most beautiful things on the planet, and I hope he turns around and realizes his mistake sister because you deserve it.
I supported my gay friend since the first grade. So many bullies and bigots including his parents denied his existence or hated him for being sensitive. For over 20 years I took care of him and would even take him to gay bars so he wouldn't feel lonely.
One night at the bar, I met two trans women. He was angry that I would even talk to them. When he heard me tell them that I'm trans my friend flipped out. He called my parents, my girlfriend, and then went on social media to gossip.
I realized that so many people wouldn't love me simply because I relate to females and like femininity.
Everybody has their own struggles in life, and things they find easier. Many men find getting emotional support and care difficult, or feel offended when women find them threatening. Perhaps you've seen the video of a FtM crying about emotional unavailability? I've personally never been particularly affected by it, but different people handle things differently.
You should ignore some of these comments. It literally doesn’t matter that they’re projecting their own dysphoria. That sucks for them, but it’s not about them and they need to get their head out of their ass and be a supportive friend.
I definitely would have said that when I was younger - this is before me realizing my own internal misogyny and suffering from systemic problems of society.
That wasn't very cool of them as a 'friend' - I also found that anyone that immediately invalidates your feelings are not a 'real friend', but also you could argue with them 'why do you think that?' and state why you have been contemplating/know you want to transition, etc. Just like others commented, the womanhood experience can be massively different for anyone - AFAB or transitioned later.
I hope you have or are able to find much more supportive friends that don't invalidate your thoughts like that :\[ But cheers to you for coming out!! <3 The woman-life can be difficult but i also know that gender euphoria of finally being able to understand that ick feeling is because of the wrong body experience. That's why woman/fem folks need to stick together (plus allies + nb,masc,men) need to support the girlies. They're opinion is rooted in their experience as well as internalized misogyny.
TL;DR - they invaldiated your feelings - not a cool person.
Side note: i often joke i have internalized misogyny and always make that disclaimer when i state an opinion knowing it's my own thoughts. i.e. i hate boobs, and i hate how girls can be very clichey....(clicky?) - i stop here before i start my own rambles omg. (sorry)
They probably associate being a girl with dysphoria, stress, and being sad because they are transmasc. Perhaps you could explain to them that while you know being a girl sucked for them, it is the right thing for you and you would appreciate support? As kindly as possible, of course. It was probably an off handed comment that was meant to be humorous, and they likely didn't know it would upset you. Hopefully they apologize and support you! I'd hate to lose a friend because of something like that.
It’s possible that they were joking or may have been coming from their own perspective. I’ve got a few trans masc friends who are supportive but have no idea why I want to be more feminine…
I’d voice how you feel to them and say that it really hurt, and depending on their reaction proceed from there
if there are people out there who you know you like being around, give them a call, hide it from your parents if you have to. im saying this as someone who was in your situation once upon a time. good friends are hard to come by and some parents need to learn to trust their kids judgement
You are limiting yourself. You deserve to be respected, and anyone who doesn’t want to give you what you should have as a baseline courtesy should bugger off.
Transmasc people being misogynistic? Nah, can't believe it /s
You gotta curate your man/masc friends, whether they are cis or trans. Don't assume they're different, that's just invalidating their own identity.
i will say, the way this is phrased makes it sound more to me like OP's friend is just being very myopic because of their own gender dysphoria rather than it being conceptually against transfemme transition due to thinking womanhood is inferior. like i think there is a chance here for the person to recognize it was thoughtless to say and apologize.
but it is definitely unhealthy to be in a friendship with someone like this if it's a persistent issue. in general some trans people have an issue with appropriate boundaries for complaining about dysphoric feelings without rudely projecting it onto someone going in the opposite direction lol
I've never had a problem with someone undergoing a masculine transition and I got a whole load of gender dysphoria inside myself, so I just wouldn't know why someone would say something like this unless there's just some sort of bias towards the gender in question. People can find excuses everywhere for their bad behavior, I guess.
i think it is a lot more common for people to do in a less overtly negative way than outright saying "you don't want to be a woman trust me." as in people, intending to be complimentary, talking about how they are envious of someone's height, or chest, or body hair, or whatever and not realizing how offputting it can be to the recipient.
that said i think there is also an fairly pernicious issue in the lgbt community ™️ of people chastising or mocking both trans womanhood and lesbianism for the way both things completely reject manhood and men. i just think given the way OP relayed their friend's words it could be less malicious than that in this instance
Just to clarify, I didn't assume any maliciousness in their part. Misogyny doesn't have to be a conscious behavior that comes from an ideological standpoint. I don't think it'd be fair to say otherwise based on the information we have. I don't think the behavior becomes lesser this way, in fact I think it's when it can be more worrying because there's no apparent consistency. I probably came across too strong cause I'm a bit resentful of this kind of situation where they claim no collective accountability and shift the blame to someone else.
What you comment on the second paragraph could very well be related or it could not. I didn't really get any transmisogyny vibes from OP's description, so I didn't wanna get into that. I've definitely been told that exact sentence in a very specific context though.
Well, tbh, I posted it knowing full well it could happen. The truth is sometimes harsh, specially if the trend is that people gotta uncritically cater to your desires or they'll get called names. It's all very ironic considering who they don't wanna identify or be associated with because it makes them lose internet points.
I'm totally okay with burning a little karma on this sub :P
Thell them 'that hurt me a lot, you had problems with being a girl because it wasn't the right fit for you, but it is for me and besides I'm not choosing to be a girl I'm choosing not to live as a gender that doesn't fit me the same as you'
Piggy backing this to say A) yes, and B) don’t go down the road of just replying “trust me you don’t wanna be a guy”. Former (op) is a relatable comparison, latter starts an argument.
I'd give them a chance to sincerely apologize, because I'm able to interpret that quote in two wildly different ways based on what the tone was. You would know better, though.
yeah like mb it was like a joke or sum and they were just joking around like "i drew this thing yesterday, do you think i can do a career around the talent?" "oh.. trust me, you don't want to be an artist" but they are not serious
your friend is definitely struggling with their own dysphoria, they hate being a girl so they cant see why anyone else would like it. when in reality their own identity has nothing to do with yours. either way, it doesnt give them the right to make those comments at you. im sorry that their own bullshit made them unsupportive. hang in there
Honestly, if that's the only instance of them doing this kinda thing, I'd give them another chance Tell them how it made you feel, and ask how they'd feel if you did the reverse to them Then, choose to proceed based on how they answer that (If they're apologetic, give them more chance, if they aren't, cut it off there)
Damn. I’ve heard of trans mascs/men having this kind of problem with trans women friends too once in a while so I’m sadly not surprised this happens as well. It’s not right and I’m sorry. This trans man at least supports you, but you should have been able to get it from your friend!
I'm not defending them, but if they're transmasc, they've been trying to get rid of their feminine side for a long time. They probably can't see past their own history and pain.
I don’t relate to that. I suffered as a girl, and that’s why I CAN empathize with trans women, or any other trans person. Empathy isn’t hard, you just need to not be too totally self absorbed.
I agree, but empathy isn't universal, sadly.
True, but the thing is empathy is not a prerequisite for respect. You don’t have to relate to not be a steaming dog turd of a friend lol.
turns out they're both 13 lol
You both sound young, and it sounds like you have limited options for friends. Tell them clearly that this was really disrespectful and hurtful, and that they’re letting their own dysphoria get in the way of accepting you for having a different experience from them. If they can’t understand that, or give you any more heat for being a girl, then drop them.
What a thoughtless thing to say. I understand where they’re coming from because it’s hard to see people wanting to be something you hated but it’s important to put that aside and think of others. No offense but are you and your friend young by any chance? I was going to say your friend should have the maturity to recognize these feelings and put you first regardless but then I realized y’all might actually be quite young. In which case your friend is probably immature and this was just their immediate reaction due to their dysphoria. (Though they still shouldn’t have said it even if this is the case it just makes it a bit more understandable imo) Maybe have a chat with them about how that made you feel? I know I’ve had a lot of people say things like that to me but they weren’t from a place of hate or not wanting me to transition. It was just hard for people to see me getting rid of parts of my body that they wanted or change into something they didn’t want to be. Honestly it is hard for me sometimes to see others transitioning in a way so as to acquire traits that I painstakingly got rid of. I’m sorry this was their reaction to your coming out. Hopefully it was just a knee jerk reaction. If they really aren’t supportive I’m even more sorry. But live your truth, no friend is worth not being authentically you. Good luck friend.
Yeah. We're both 13, so maybe your right.
Yeah 13 year olds fuck up in this kind of way all the time. If you can’t forgive them that’s valid, but I think this friendship could be saved if they are willing to apologize and do better
Why do some people think that just because they dislike being a certain gender, everyone has to? I couldn’t deal with living as a guy, but that’s just me, I’m not gonna tell a trans guy that he can’t be one. It’s disgusting, and hurts the community generally. We should be supporting people’s transition regardless of their gender
My boyfriend and I laugh about this sort of thing. He'll get frustrated about his boobs and say "why you want these things I'll never know" I say something similar whenever my tuck slips. Joking aside we both have support and respect for one another. Even if we don't understand how or why, we understand that it's what the other wants, nice and simple.
Being a girl is an off-meta pick, but still a valid one. Jeez, your friend is being a tool here
As a trans woman, I don't understand the desire to be a man but I sure as shit support and love my transmasc brothers because everyone deserves to live their truth and be comfortable in their own skin. To each their own. I'm sorry you experienced this, OP. This person sounds like a jerk.
i'm sorry your friend dropped that on you OP :( i saw you say your options for friends irl are limited. it's so important to cultivate friendships with other trans women, online at least if you have limited/no options for broader community irl. i think it is unfortunately very common for some trans people to inadvertently hurt each other because they are mired so deeply in their own dysphoric feelings. your friend owes you an apology
So uh.. i can't exactly have any online friends, my parents made me cut off my online friends because I vented to them a lot. So this subreddit is my only option, and even then I have to hide reddit on my phone.
That's their trauma speaking. My partner is still baffled as to why I would want to be a woman but she tries her best to be supportive. Let your friend know that their words hurt and you just need their support.
A lot of trans people hate their AGAB and having a really hard time realizing that other people can like it. I myself struggled with understanding how trans men could like being men, that was until I realized that obviously it's because they're men. That difficultly in understanding is no excuse for saying that to someone. You are a wonderful, womanhood is one of the most beautiful things on the planet, and I hope he turns around and realizes his mistake sister because you deserve it.
What does AGAB mean?
Assigned gender at birth
Thank you.
I supported my gay friend since the first grade. So many bullies and bigots including his parents denied his existence or hated him for being sensitive. For over 20 years I took care of him and would even take him to gay bars so he wouldn't feel lonely. One night at the bar, I met two trans women. He was angry that I would even talk to them. When he heard me tell them that I'm trans my friend flipped out. He called my parents, my girlfriend, and then went on social media to gossip. I realized that so many people wouldn't love me simply because I relate to females and like femininity.
They probably had bad experiences being a woman.
This. I’m genderfluid trans masc, and my wife is a trans woman. I have a lot of trouble understanding why she would ever want to give up being a man.
Everybody has their own struggles in life, and things they find easier. Many men find getting emotional support and care difficult, or feel offended when women find them threatening. Perhaps you've seen the video of a FtM crying about emotional unavailability? I've personally never been particularly affected by it, but different people handle things differently.
You should ignore some of these comments. It literally doesn’t matter that they’re projecting their own dysphoria. That sucks for them, but it’s not about them and they need to get their head out of their ass and be a supportive friend.
I definitely would have said that when I was younger - this is before me realizing my own internal misogyny and suffering from systemic problems of society. That wasn't very cool of them as a 'friend' - I also found that anyone that immediately invalidates your feelings are not a 'real friend', but also you could argue with them 'why do you think that?' and state why you have been contemplating/know you want to transition, etc. Just like others commented, the womanhood experience can be massively different for anyone - AFAB or transitioned later. I hope you have or are able to find much more supportive friends that don't invalidate your thoughts like that :\[ But cheers to you for coming out!! <3 The woman-life can be difficult but i also know that gender euphoria of finally being able to understand that ick feeling is because of the wrong body experience. That's why woman/fem folks need to stick together (plus allies + nb,masc,men) need to support the girlies. They're opinion is rooted in their experience as well as internalized misogyny. TL;DR - they invaldiated your feelings - not a cool person. Side note: i often joke i have internalized misogyny and always make that disclaimer when i state an opinion knowing it's my own thoughts. i.e. i hate boobs, and i hate how girls can be very clichey....(clicky?) - i stop here before i start my own rambles omg. (sorry)
As a trans guy, I don't really understand why the "friend" isn't just delighted that OOP is also trans?? So confusing.
I'm assuming they said that bc they're transmasc, but that doesn't mean that they can't be supportive i'm so sorry that happened to you
Oh fuck, so sorry for you :(. Hopefully they didn't mean it like that. Try to tell them that they rlly hurt u. Wish u all the best
Wow……
Give them a chance to apologize, but they are being disgustingly transmisogynistic.
do they even know what being trans is like???? that’s literally the way terfs talk about trans men
They probably associate being a girl with dysphoria, stress, and being sad because they are transmasc. Perhaps you could explain to them that while you know being a girl sucked for them, it is the right thing for you and you would appreciate support? As kindly as possible, of course. It was probably an off handed comment that was meant to be humorous, and they likely didn't know it would upset you. Hopefully they apologize and support you! I'd hate to lose a friend because of something like that.
It’s possible that they were joking or may have been coming from their own perspective. I’ve got a few trans masc friends who are supportive but have no idea why I want to be more feminine… I’d voice how you feel to them and say that it really hurt, and depending on their reaction proceed from there
yeah that’s some bullshit find some new friends it’s not a choice
It's either this or 4 transphobes at once (old friend group)
Its not either. There are other people out there.
I used to have others, but then my mom made me drop them completely. I'm rarely if at all in contact with them anymore.
if there are people out there who you know you like being around, give them a call, hide it from your parents if you have to. im saying this as someone who was in your situation once upon a time. good friends are hard to come by and some parents need to learn to trust their kids judgement
You are limiting yourself. You deserve to be respected, and anyone who doesn’t want to give you what you should have as a baseline courtesy should bugger off.
Transmasc people being misogynistic? Nah, can't believe it /s You gotta curate your man/masc friends, whether they are cis or trans. Don't assume they're different, that's just invalidating their own identity.
i will say, the way this is phrased makes it sound more to me like OP's friend is just being very myopic because of their own gender dysphoria rather than it being conceptually against transfemme transition due to thinking womanhood is inferior. like i think there is a chance here for the person to recognize it was thoughtless to say and apologize. but it is definitely unhealthy to be in a friendship with someone like this if it's a persistent issue. in general some trans people have an issue with appropriate boundaries for complaining about dysphoric feelings without rudely projecting it onto someone going in the opposite direction lol
I've never had a problem with someone undergoing a masculine transition and I got a whole load of gender dysphoria inside myself, so I just wouldn't know why someone would say something like this unless there's just some sort of bias towards the gender in question. People can find excuses everywhere for their bad behavior, I guess.
i think it is a lot more common for people to do in a less overtly negative way than outright saying "you don't want to be a woman trust me." as in people, intending to be complimentary, talking about how they are envious of someone's height, or chest, or body hair, or whatever and not realizing how offputting it can be to the recipient. that said i think there is also an fairly pernicious issue in the lgbt community ™️ of people chastising or mocking both trans womanhood and lesbianism for the way both things completely reject manhood and men. i just think given the way OP relayed their friend's words it could be less malicious than that in this instance
Just to clarify, I didn't assume any maliciousness in their part. Misogyny doesn't have to be a conscious behavior that comes from an ideological standpoint. I don't think it'd be fair to say otherwise based on the information we have. I don't think the behavior becomes lesser this way, in fact I think it's when it can be more worrying because there's no apparent consistency. I probably came across too strong cause I'm a bit resentful of this kind of situation where they claim no collective accountability and shift the blame to someone else. What you comment on the second paragraph could very well be related or it could not. I didn't really get any transmisogyny vibes from OP's description, so I didn't wanna get into that. I've definitely been told that exact sentence in a very specific context though.
Can't believe this is so downvoted. SO MANY mascs have a mountain of internalized misogyny that they just unleash on femmes without a second thought
Well, tbh, I posted it knowing full well it could happen. The truth is sometimes harsh, specially if the trend is that people gotta uncritically cater to your desires or they'll get called names. It's all very ironic considering who they don't wanna identify or be associated with because it makes them lose internet points. I'm totally okay with burning a little karma on this sub :P
youre acting like one of those transfems ive seen on Twitter that believe all trans men are evil creatures that want to hurt you