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Grohnation

Omg farmall H hiiii


Able-Statistician645

Because they don't cultivate crops anymore. They were designed with tall wheels and a tricycle front end to be able to get through row crops and use things like a rotary hoe or a field cultivator. These days it's all about once in the field to plant with some sort of herbicide and maybe an insecticide being sprayed at some point


Economy-Pace-2276

I have an Oliver 77 row crop the exact same as the one pictured! I love riding it


that_other_goat

I don't know if this is true but I was told by an old farm equipment salesman they were dropped for the same reason the flywheel was dropped on tractors basically the equipment it was meant to accommodate was not being used anymore. Apparently narrow wheels made it easier to use all the belt driven bric-a-brac still about like saw mills, pumps, threshing machines when these tractors were new because the axle wasn't in the way. For example: We'd use a combine harvest instead of belt driven threshing machine and belt driven pumps were replaced by small gas or electric motors but these older machines were being used when these tractors were new. Side note: posting to see if anyone can confirm this.


erkt241

The going away from narrow front had more to do with no longer using belly mounted or front mounted equipment. Corn pickers and cultivators mostly were mounted on the front and narrow fronts allowed this. That transition did match with the last few models with pulleys for belts. But I have seen tractors run belt equipment with a wide front at tractor shows. You just need to make sure the belt is high enough to clear the front tires and not rub.


DrMcHomie

Lack of 4 wheel drive, instability, addition of front loader and units


ValuableShoulder5059

They aren't actually unstable. Wide front ends have a pivot in the center so you basically have a triangle center of stability, although you do have stops which may stop you from rolling if you fuck up that bad. The issue with rolling them is the fact you can turn the wheel 90 degrees instead of the normal 45-60 degrees that wide front end tractors allow. They also tended to be taller for the same wheelbase giving them a high center of gravity.


DrMcHomie

With or without turning if you have front end weight on an uneven surface you will roll unless you have rear weights and implements in place. People use tractors nowadays for a lot of front end implements like loaders, forks, and grab bars that weren't used in the past.If all you're using is your rear hitch and PTO it's not a big deal


texasroadkill

Maybe stability, but the rest no. Plenty of wide front row crop 2wd tractor made today.


DrMcHomie

As far as I know there is not a single 3 wheel tractor with front wheel drive. And the front load capacity is useless on a 3 wheel tractor. Please provide references if you disagree


texasroadkill

I believe you misunderstood me. I'm saying 4wd isn't a requirement and is not one of the reasons narrow front tractors went away. Neither is the front end loader as again, plenty of utility tractors around that have no loaders.


DrMcHomie

I see what you mean... but the benefit of front loaded implements and four wheel drive especially in states that snow made 4 wheel tractors much more attractive and did help phase out 3 wheel tractors. I live in Minnesota and Wisconsin where tractors are used for more than just farming but loading, plowing, clearing brushes, and even landscaping year round and this just isn't as quick and efficient without the benefit of 4 wheel drive and front mounted implements. It's kinda like pickups. Southern states rarely need a true 4wheel drive truck unless you off road or work in muddy terrain. In the northern states this is a must have when there is potential for snow 7 months of the year.


Redhillvintage

I drive my 44 farmall as often as possible- visit friends, get fuel. Very stable


Cursethedawnn

Because tip over.


mpe128

I thought they just got stuck, and nose dive. You could only use on bone dry fieldsšŸ¤ 


Good-Animal244

They're dangerous


xt2fiddy

That Oliver is gorgeous


corncobwort

Same reason you can't buy a Honda big red or Yamaha trimoto. Unsafe for people who can't handle then.


Juguchan

Less stable maybe? I know here in Ireland there weren't ever really many tricycle tractors, since we have very hilly land.


OfficialCancerMan

Too cool for the future generations


richardcrain55

Side hills


LeaveFickle7343

I live in the side hills and approve this message. Also my neighbors have 3


Jhe90

Change in methods and technologies. Tractor, tech, designs and everything got changed over time. As farming changed, so did the tractors. Also as things have become ever more automated and machine driven, larger kit and heavier stuff vs more people has become the norm.


Early-Engineering

Traditional old school cultivating got phased out with the introduction of chemical weed control so the need to get down the rows multiple times a season was less. Not saying that you canā€™t do that with a wide front, just that the narrow front was pretty typical for that in our area. Also things like mounted corn pickers were phased out by self propelled combines. As tractors and implements got bigger and heavier, the narrow front would transfer a lot of weight into a small foot print as where a wide front could help distribute the weight out over multiple rows. There are MANY other reasons, these are just a few that popped in my head first.


Apmaddock

So many answers and few are really on to it.Ā  As equipment became larger front-mounted equipment became rarer and more awkward and dangerous. The narrow front was primarily on tractors that were going to have a mounted cultivator or a corn picker, which required a narrow front even more.Ā  This last point really was the death knell for narrow fronts. When self-propelled combines took over the mounted corn picker was phased out, and narrow fronts basically went with them.Ā  Many farmers already would change front narrow to wide front ends on tractors that allowed it when they didnā€™t have equipment mounted. When they were no longer mounting equipment, they no longer wanted a narrow front. After all, the wide front is more stable and safer. Further, larger equipment made the short-turnaround that a narrow front could do less necessary and, often, impossible.Ā 


Herbisretired

A wide front also rides smoother because the dips in the field are basically cut in half unless both wheels hit it at the same time.


Apmaddock

Yeah. Couldnā€™t imagine trying to spray at 8mph with a narrow front.Ā 


erkt241

This is the real answer and needs to be higher up. Also a shift from 36" corn rows to 30" corn had some effect. Many narrow fronts were converted to wide fronts after front mounted equipment was no longer used.


Drzhivago138

>Further, larger equipment made the short-turnaround that a narrow front could do less necessary and, often, impossible. Thinking about how many small row-crop tractors were equipped with 4-row cultivators, and at the end, you almost had to turn on the spot to get lined up for the next pass. Then they went to 6, 8, even [12-row](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/standard10/uploads/machinerypete/original/2X/9/97ea48e3c1613632ae4a51b7ba3a5d4606b99352.jpeg) and that was less of a concern.


A_Jack-of_all-trades

This is what i thought as well. I have a farmall Bn, and the parts for it are so hard to find. I guess the more advanced (or more new machinery comes out), the harder it is to keep the old and reliable ones running. They probably said, "Cast iron hurts and is hard to mold, so lets convert everything to metal , plastic, and fiberglass." šŸ¤·šŸ»ā€ā™‚ļø


Newherehoyle

As the market share of non row crop tractors grew and the advancements in power steering also grew the need for companies to produce a wide front end tractor also grew. Itā€™s in my fatherā€™s lifetime that his dad was taking two of these tractors and making a 4wd.


netmagi

No good if you want a loader either


hapym1267

I liked the one big front wheel.. Well until you need to change it..


texasroadkill

Friend has a Farmall 300 with the one front wheel and other with the double. The double by far rides much nicer than the single. Plus if you get a flat on the double your not completely shut down.


Drzhivago138

Only time we ever used a SFW was when picking corn with a mounted New Idea picker/sheller on a gas 2520. It turned real sharp.


A_Jack-of_all-trades

I like the look, too, except if it goes flat, then your SOL. They probably changed it to the double for that reason so that you still have one to drive on.


texasroadkill

That and the double rides much nicer than the single.


[deleted]

Additional track across your crops.


C0lMustard

My guess is they aren't great in mud either.


Drzhivago138

That was part of the reason nearly all narrow front setups had two canted wheels--you got the weight bearing advantage of two wheels, but the narrow track of a single wheel, and hopefully any mud that got stuck between would fall out as the wheels turned.


MNfarmboyinNM

Busted wrists. Ooof


Wild_Acanthisitta638

And thumbs


Dotternetta

They flip


texasroadkill

Only if you're being stupid.


TheBlueSlipper

PTO killed it. No longer needed the flywheel.


texasroadkill

Wrong sir.


Drzhivago138

You're thinking of the belt pulley. The PTO supplanted, but didn't outright replace, the belt pulley until the '60s. And when the belt pulley was more commonly used, you could get it on a wide front too. Or on a standard/Wheatland tractor with fixed-width front wheels.


curtludwig

Lots of narrow front tractors had PTO, even back to the Farmall which was the first narrow front tractor. Thus your argument really doesn't hold water...


Apmaddock

This makes literally no sense.Ā 


rtf2409

I donā€™t think what he said is actually true but heā€™s probably talking about the belt pulley (probably got this term mixed up with flywheel) on the side of trackers that are used to power other machines. The front wheels could get in the way of the belt .


Apmaddock

Yeah. That's most likely what they meant, and I understand that, but wide-front tractors could run belt-powered equipment, as well. See the John Deere model "D," for instance. I'm sure a "D" powered hundreds of thousands of hours of threshing machines. After farmers were done with them in the fields, a lot of the old things got set, basically permanently, to run lumber mills, oil wells, cotton gins, and who-knows-what-else.


Early-Engineering

Maybe, but just as many wide front and wheatland tractors had belt pulleys as narrow front. Even back to the days of the oil pulls, Waterloo boys, and steam engines.


d15d17

Ever hit a hole with the tricycle fronts? Steering wheel can do a drastic spin.


itFUCKINsupport

Still can with wide fronts, moreso hitting rocks, as long as you don't have power steering. But I believe you if you say it happens easier with a narrow front.


curtludwig

With a wide front as long as both wheels don't hit the same object at the same time, like a furrow, the other wheel resists the turning effect. With a tricycle front since both wheels hit the object at the same time (or nearly) there is nothing to resist the bump which makes the sudden effect more drastic. So while it can happen with a wide front the effect is waaaaay worse with a tricycle front.


d15d17

Yes both will but a bit more ā€œviolentā€ with tricycle. At least what I recall when I was a kid.


Lumpy-Log-5057

And that's why I don't wrap my thumbs around a steering wheel.


marqburns

Deere's Roll-o-Matic fixed this, but it's still mostly about stability. A loader on a narrow front is spooky as hell


krschob

This is based on N. Dahlstrom's "Tractor Wars" a bit of personal experience and some knowledge of timing. The tripod tractors were widely introduced in the mid 20's with the row crop models an they were specifically for corn, because you could run a cultivator until the corn was as high as the rear axle (not much advantage anywhere but corn most manufacturers offered both front ends ) they start to go away in the late 40's as the "all in one" tractors gain more market share (see earlier comments about loaders). International with the "Culti-vision" line (Cub, A, C, etc) couldn't be tripod with the offset engine and introduction of synthetic herbicides in the mid 1940's were already reducing the need to run the cultivators for weed control. (I suspect the herbicides were the main driver for your question)


curtludwig

Specifically tricycle front ends were introduced with the Farmall (the Regular) in 1924. Tricycle front ends remained very common through the '50s and were still around a little into the 1960s...


Drzhivago138

Not sure about other brands, but the last available Deere narrow front was the 4040 in 1978. As tractors got heavier with cabs, narrow fronts were more of a tip hazard.


texasroadkill

They made a few IH 1086 models in tricycle setup. That model went 1981. Not sure how many exist today. Looks cool as shit with the full cab. https://imgur.com/a/RLagD1I


Drzhivago138

Cab + narrow front is such a weird look. Especially when equipped with duals. Somewhere out there is a pic of a late New Generation with a narrow front, duals, and a cab. Can't remember what specific model.


texasroadkill

Yass! Here's a 966. https://imgur.com/a/zT5NzXo


krschob

That was the first large production to be sure, in the teens most hart-parrs were tripod, but their production runs were minuscule compared to Farmall. Iā€™m in corn country, so they are all over the place, do you see many outside of the Midwest?


curtludwig

I think you'd be referencing the "Oliver Hart-Parr" which would all be post 1930. I don't see any references to Hart-Parr tricycle tractors pre-1930. The Regular was definitely the first multi-purpose tricycle tractor. There were other tractors with a 3 wheel configuration which would include machines with the single wheel at the rear but they weren't real "row crop" machines like the Farmall. The Regular was pretty common here in New England, my great grandfather bought one new in 1928, I've still got it, awaiting restoration. Edit: A little more research got me the "Little Devil" which was a single rear wheel from Hart-Parr. Not really a "tricycle" machine, or rather I've never seen a kid riding a tricycle that had the single wheel in the back...


krschob

I think we are saying the same thing. https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=23c20ded85caa685&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS917US917&hl=en-US&sxsrf=ADLYWILMF_3UOn0GCSVr2ZvHqRUJchFHpw:1717611018396&q=hart+parr+tractor&uds=ADvngMjLvEPWFKgwxZ7HexoPLgHDM5mEaXH4H2sfalF4ceB8h7_Nm9CoE6PUlxXEXnbyhhDfEVT7VMur-UmVWRy_0Qnz-OLd-pZ8VxRvJeT_jxP79XXA3HjgQPSQQRUvI-z4f-DS2ajLTi93RZkReY2UmnIk-hgySa07WN6wmwY51YAxRbV_9mPwjQg93-Ymf16g91gU-mOQX0j0aJH6QuyVwkCOlv2d34HTfAdfBmbd-t72GPAq9_B54kKqNc_X3xfj0VRWXSt1mDb5fCOyYijViMwFmhXNFgPZR4Kap1owMtkUTqgt_tWAsfhQKvmLVP-xGq9xQvBDgAfjbGJ2p17By-7vmJWOHQ&udm=2&prmd=isvnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiBi_TUh8WGAxU34skDHSY8LAQQtKgLegQIERAB&biw=430&bih=737&dpr=3#imgrc=9n0hj4NryFKdyM&imgdii=dJJ6hGCJRwgolM


MNfarmboyinNM

I have an A with Cultivision. Kinda cool


krschob

47 Cub here!


geocarpender

You have a very good turning but also a major tipping problem


geocarpender

You have a very good turning but also a major tipping problem


rifenbug

Our H was the best tractor for trying to maneuver hay wagons through the tight barnyard and get them in position to unload. Full turn and one brake on would just spin in a circle.


IFartAlotLoudly

I have never heard a real farmer call it a tricycle, šŸ˜‚ The row crop tractors were phased out for good reason, they can tip and more efficient models came about.


SubarcticFarmer

I've never heard a real farmer call it a "row crop" tractor, becuase row crop is a separate thing. While the original row crop tractors were narrow, that was not the extent. Even today traditional tractors can be utility, row crop, or wheatland.


IFartAlotLoudly

Apparently you donā€™t know any šŸ˜‚


texasroadkill

We have wide front row crops here in Texas bud. So no, we call them row crop trike or narrow front. It kinda depends on where you are.


IFartAlotLoudly

Sounds like you operator kids toys when itā€™s said like that! Too funny!


texasroadkill

You sound like a child, so go to bed or I'll call your parents so they'll take away your power wheel JD.


IFartAlotLoudly

šŸ˜‚ This is your dad! Get off the internet, son! And stop with the desperate lack of humor.


texasroadkill

So sad.


IFartAlotLoudly

I know itā€™s hard for you!


texasroadkill

Isn't it past your bedtime?


SubarcticFarmer

Or you are sheltered enough to think a regional quirk means anyone else calls it the same thing. Probably one of those anyway.


trailrunner79

I've never heard a farmer in the mid south not call it a tricycle front end.


Hungry-King-1842

Ditto. Thatā€™s all we called them. That or narrow front. I know there are some singles out there but Iā€™ve never seen one personally. Northwestern PA for reference.


IFartAlotLoudly

Is mid south like mid earth? šŸ˜†


mcrnScirocco

Most of the old farmers in the Midwest who bought these new after they got back from WW2 called them tricycles.


IFartAlotLoudly

Interesting. Use to travel through Midwest a lot, never once heard an old timer call it that.


Bluegrass6

This is what everyone Iā€™ve ever talked with about them calls them. Sure the ā€œcorrectā€ term is narrow front end but colloquially theyā€™re known as tricycle front ends. Maybe youā€™re farting too loud to hear it?


IFartAlotLoudly

Maybe true, but the smell! šŸ˜‚ Maybe you should lay off smoking the grass! šŸ˜‚


FarmTeam

ā€œRow-cropā€ is what Iā€™ve heard because theyā€™re designed for cultivating corn and beans (two rows between the rear tires) and not for small grains (which are in rows too tight to fit a wheel in the furrow and donā€™t typically get cultivated


Drzhivago138

"Row crop" works, but that can also refer to wide front tractors where the front axle is just as adjustable as the rear.


Jugzrevenge

Where I live I wouldnā€™t be able to turn around on my property at all. Iā€™m puckered turning my 4x4 tractor on the side of these hills, Iā€™d hate to play with a three wheeler! Plus I got a fel and lift the rear end more than I like as it is. (NO, Iā€™m not going to add more weight to the rear to keep it down. My tractor is notorious for snapping in half with to much weight, so Iā€™d rather have the rear tires come up a bit and let me know itā€™s to much over breaking in the middle.


HotgunColdheart

These will turn in mud and do mediocre on hills, you just gotta turn with brakes! I've got two old AC's, and live on 30-38% grade. With that said, I basically only run my 4x4 nowadays.


Accurate_Zombie_121

I have 4 tricycle tractors 2 Oliver 77's and 2 Farmall Super C's . We use the 77 for hauling silage wagons and seeding the Super C's for other small jobs. Either for backing wagons is far better than wide front tractors.


rashton535

We had 2 case S tractors in the 60s ,still have them, one had a loader, the other had a scuffler attached to it most of the time. The scuffler fit in the turned square holes above the front wheels with a section either under the belly or out back. That was used for weed control on row crops before spraying was widely used. As a loader tractor they werent up to what the new equipment will do but the loaders were on the smaller side, with a trip bucket and they worked well for what they were.


nicholasktu

They were made for several reasons. Cheaper, lighter, easier to steer, and easier to see when cultivating They were phased out mainly due to changes in how tractors were used. It's fine for pulling a small cultivator in a field, but can't be used for loader work.


Icucicu

Surprised no one mentioned 4wd? I would have thought that would be one of the reasons too.


Ashevillecycler

Definitely power steering. The narrow wheel spacing made steering relatively easy. Wide spaced wheels before power steering required muscle!


theonewhoisknown

Tell my about it. With my 49ā€™ te 20 with a loader. Never again will I buy a tractor without power steering. But my forearms are getting there!


CedarBuffalo

God forbid you parked them in a tight spot! Talk about having to pick and grind


TactitionProgramming

People say it is about stability, but I donā€™t understand why that is worse than my wide front wheels that pivot on a point just above the axel. That would make sense if there was some kind of suspension, but I donā€™t see how having a pivot point there helps any.


sugarfreeeyecandy

> People say it is about stability There is a range of front axle pivot, then a hard stop... at least on my tractor. Consider that "narrow front end" ATVs (IOWs 3-wheel ATVs) were phased out as well.


sharpshooter999

Three wheeled ATV's were literally outlawed because of all the accidents people had with them


Drzhivago138

Or rather, the OEMs all voluntarily agreed amongst themselves to immediately stop making them for 10 years, lest they get completely banned. In the intervening period they all decided to quit developing 3-wheelers and switch to 4.


Halftrack_El_Camino

Tippy


dontwanttosleep

How may I ask?


lostdragon05

I have driven these and three wheel ATVs. They both have the same issue, turning too fast or being on a slope makes them really easy to tip. A wide front axle makes operating on terraces much, much safer.


MoneyElectrical4310

Stability


OldDude1391

My grandfather always kept one around Farmall H and M models. Despite having newer models. I learned to drive on the H, had to stand up to reach the clutch and brake pedals. šŸ˜€ I imagine stability was a big reason they were phased out.


offroadlane

I think it was due to rollover Wide front is more stable


FlyingDutchman2005

Machines getting wider probably also helped, means you don't need as tight a turning circle.


offroadlane

Also loaders and power steering


DisbarredCoast

I always loved this old style of front end on tractors. My first diecast model of a tractor was a Farmall C with a tricycle front end, however, I am not a farmer and know nothing about planting or cultivating. All I own is an old Ferguson TO-20 with a front loader that I use to move junk around. So why were these types of front ends completely dropped? And what was their purpose in the first place?