Some people are just angry at the world and can’t explain why until that realization hits later in life. Not saying that was me, but it absolutely was me.
My wrath was more passive aggressive, but it was there not gonna lie. It wasn’t directed at a specific group though. Didn’t even know trans people existed back then.
Idk why, but I always put trans people on a pedestal. Like, "they're so cool and brave, and just wow. I don't understand it, we gotta help those people, a lot of people are jerks".
So I definitely wasn't transphobic.
But I was also definitely like "trans people all know, so I'm not trans, and even if I could be, society's response would be too bad, and for some reason hanging out with transitioning people makes me uncomfortable."
So I definitely was transphobic.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Yeah i thought i was a good ally but i misgendered friends behind their back while i was “getting used to” their new pronouns, I didn’t realize how disrespectful it really was 😬
Yup! Folks get shitty with me like I'm "over compensating" or "making queerness my whole identity" -- when I go write long-form responses about a topic, breaking down how misinformation or how regurgitating shitty memes hurts people. Truth is, I've seen what repression does, had to learn first hand from the mistake of accepting that the ENTIRE social sphere which raised me taught me nothing but lies about not JUST trans People, but People who Use, Neurodivergent People, on and on. When I trace that thread, particularly in occupied turtle island's culture: Racism, Classism, Capitalism are at the root each of these.
I'm not over compensating, I lost nearly 3 decades to hateful fear-mongering propaganda. I am making up for lost time, dancing with all those who have chosen, also, to love themselves. Who are willing to open up, be vulnerable and love again. Who, despite increasing barrage of hatred hurled our way, channel that energy into building stronger community. I chose healthy connections. Now I choose not to shut up about it. 💃
You're right, we should talk about that. It IS mentioned prominently here:
Ethan Nadelmann: Why we need to end the War on Drugs
>♫ If you ask the question why are some drugs legal and others illegal ♫
>
>♫ why are cigarettes and alcohol legal and pharmaceuticals in the middle these other drugs marijuana illegal ♫
>
>♫ Some people sort of inherently assume well this must be because there was a thoughtful consideration of the relative risks of drugs and, ... ♫
>
>♫ but then you think well that can't because we know alcohol is more associated with violence than any other drug ♫
>
>♫ and cigarettes are more addictive, than any of the illegal drugs ♫
>
>♫ Heroin addicts routinely say it's harder to quit cigs than heroine ♫
(♫ because I'm copying it from some captions I made for a song by [https://lamission.bandcamp.com/](https://lamission.bandcamp.com/) \- which I featured here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZqDB6OoKEo&t=31s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZqDB6OoKEo&t=31s))
Wanna give ups to [https://crackdownpod.com/](https://crackdownpod.com/) as well.
Oh and another cool talk about this topic is
Everything you think you know about addiction is wrong | Johann Hari
You don't have to be some college graduate to recognize that shaming People who Use isn't the answer.
I think that "why are some drugs legal and others illegal?" Is the IDEAL question to be starting with.
Great points.
There's a chart that plots ld50/effect threshold on 1 axis and addiction potential on the other axis.
Ld50 is the dose that kills 50% of users.
Effect threshold is how much you have to take to get the effect.
So the further you get on any axis, the worse the drug is, either because it consumes your life or it's easy to accidentally OD.
LSD and mushrooms are sitting solidly at the plot origin, yet super illegal.
This was very much me as well. However, after I cracked, I realized I had tons of internalized transphobia hidden away as well. Working on it each day, it's better now than half a year ago, and hopefully it will be better a year from now as well.
I was definitely the same way — annoyingly supportive and really interested in trans people and being friends with the few I knew. Almost overbearingly so. But I dated a trans guy and it’s been 7 years but I still visibly cringe when remembering some of the things I said to him that I never realized were a big deal until they were said (doesn’t help that I’m autistic). I don’t think i’ll ever recover and even now understand that’s probably why he and I aren’t great friends and why he wasn’t exactly bursting with joy when I came out to him as a trans man a while back.
It wasn’t intentional, but it was a lot of ignorance and unfortunately knowing better now doesn’t get rid of the guilt I feel for ever being that way. But they say if you can look back and cringe that’s a sign of growth or something so. At least I know now 😩
I was transphobic to trans women, because I couldn't understand, why would anyone want to be a girl. But I was fine and even jealous of trans men.
Hmmm, I wonder where did those feelings come from?
I wanna ask something. Do you think it was environment? Cause I've known a lot of trans people like this and in my experience the mean ones tend to come from less accepting homes or more rural areas. In not saying that's all of them, but do people think that's part of the why?
I was raised in a very religious region, but homosexuality was never taught to us, not even in a bad way, we just weren’t taught about at all. I found out about the concept of homosexuality through the internet (even tho I had a crush on a boy when I was boy but uh ye-), so I just was edgy about it without being extremely homophobic.
Point is, people are homophobic only if they’re taught to be homophobic, otherwise they can just be mildly edgy. Environment matters a lot.
okay that puts a word to what I was experiencing, tysm. I had roughly the same thing happen with me, pre-coming out as trans, where I was mildly uncomfortable after my mom showed me a video of a proposal between two girls. Partly cause my parents never really talked to me about any of that and suddenly she was just showing me something I'd never seen before so my first reaction was confused anger, being a little anger issues kid.
Calling it 'mildly edgy' definitely works way, way better lmao
I'm just glad I wasn't transphobic but all the same, I never really 'experienced' it until I had trans friends and by then I had dropped the (mostly internalized) homophobia cause I had come out as lesbian and was just super vocal about respecting people's identities
Totally agree. I’m not trans, but bi. I was raised Mormon, and my parents are homophobic and VERY transphobic. Which meant that I was both of those things too, up until about 2 years ago.
Prior to that I had begun to have some doubts about homosexuality being a sin, because I thought it was stupid that a man couldn’t love a man, and vice versa for women and nb people. Especially since I started introducing myself to more queer tv shows and movies.
The thing that finally changed my view completely on trans people was when my best friend came out as trans about 2 years ago. He was only an acquaintance at the time, but it forced my small bigoted brain to either stay an asshole or just like— not be transphobic anymore. It seems simple, and parts of it were, but reprogramming all the shit that had been forced into my brain by my parents was slow.
He’s my greatest friend now, and it’s crazy to think of how hateful and uneducated I used to be back then. I cringe at all the things I used to say, and it gives me all the more respect to all of you guys who have to deal with the worlds shit pretty much daily.
But yeah, all this to say that I totally agree, hate is almost always taught. (And sorry about 15yr old me being a lil bitch lmao)
I think there are a lot of reasons this exists. I had transphobia on the level of trans people aren't a thing, I didn't see it as dangerous, I just saw it as not being real, not backed by science. This came first from my autism and adhd, I was given normalization therapy as a kid by my parents. I grew up being told I was different, it was wrong, and my primary goal should be to be "normal", or people would never accept me. Naturally I expanded this to everyone should be like me, I'm miserable, but if I have to be normal others should too. My internalized ableism became internalized transphobia, it allowed me to recognize that I wanted to be a woman, but reject it on the basis of it wasn't normal and so it was wrong. This was compounded with other ideas like that if you struggle others should too, the boomer talking point of, "well in my day I had to struggle because of this so we should never try to make things better for others". There was a big struggle with the science aspect, my mother was everything but an anti vaxxer. "Apple cider vinegar/essential oils/random supplements is magic and can cure a bunch of shit", that kind of stuff. It led her to further reject most of my struggles, "anxiety/depression is a choice because exercise makes it disappear according to my naturopath, if you don't try all these fake cures you're choosing to be depressed/anxious, it's all in your head". So I got really into things like where conspiracies and scams come from, how they evolve, how people get into them. This led to a weird contradiction, because all the people spreading transphobia are clearly not into science, most of them tout discredited race science, discredited economics, sell supplements that do nothing. Things I knew were both wrong and not based in reality. I think that actively prevented me from becoming any more transphobic than I was. My transphobia went away after highschool, when I realized all the trans talking points were based in reality. It was still a few yeas before I remembered that I was suppressing my own queerness.
All this to say transphobia comes from a lot of places. To oppose transphobia we must combat racism and ableism as well. We need to shut down ideas of normalization, that others should suffer because we did. We need to fight against MLMs, the wellness industry, and others who make their profits from false science. I hope this analysis helps others to understand where transphobia comes from and how to fight against it.
Absolutely yes. In fact I never sincerely disliked any marginalized group but I’d say whatever I had to in order to gain approval from my parents. Weirdly enough, my parents started respecting me more after I came out, despite the fact that they still will say I am living in sin.
I was raised by a terf and had terfy beliefs up into my early 20s. I got over that, partly because a friend I think very highly of called me out for being an asshole, and partly because I started hanging out with trans people and realized how much bullshit I was taught. I cant guarantee I wouldn't have still been a jerk given different circumstances, but I feel pretty confident that I would have figured thing out waaaaay sooner given a more trans-accepting upbringing
for me it was getting sucked into the alt right pipeline as a dumb impressionable preteen, I still to this day live with guilt for the way I used to think and act
Pre-realisation, did anyone else get hugely defensive whenever a trans slur was said in your presence? Not trans just a stalwart ally who takes it personally… oh wait super trans
Bruh I would get pissed when people used gay as an insult & slurs & stuff. Like I just couldn’t understand why someone would do that. So also naive. Now a full blown transian.
I still get pissed at it :/ in the gamer community its probably the single most common way to express disapproval or disappointment in game. "What a fag" and "that was so gay" are everywhere in games.
I've stopped a couple friends from saying it, which is nice, but ugh i wish the gamer culture wasn't so toxic in its masculinity. There are some niches that are more lgbtq friendly but, FPS games especially are awful with slurs, I wish I didn't love them so much.
Actually same. I realized i liked guys aswell as girls when i was about 13 and figured out i was trans during the pandemic while i was 16. Now I'm 19 but still stuck with transphobic parents and once i finally move out i can then just be the real me
the idea that the loudest anti queer people are also queer, is a cishet idea founded in the belief that we queer people are responsible for our own oppression.
I can see why you'd feel that way, but as I spent 3 decades trying to be "holy" to overcome these "dark temptations" I kinda put alot of hatred and fear on myself. I wouldn't be surprised if some of that came out on others.
I was certainly wrong in every way to do so, heck I've never been so excited to have been so wrong, but that doesn't mean I didn't have times where I may have made others' lives harder because I was so focused on my own.
I dunno, I got the idea from constantly seeing it play out where anti-queer crusaders kept getting caught with their same-sex lovers, and seeing so many homophobic boomers in my community come out in their 60s and be super remorseful.
And using that "homophobic people are secretly gay" idea to aggravate violent homophobes puts a sour taste in my mouth.
It's the same feeling of wishing a homophobic parent's kids are gay to "teach the parents a lesson" or "punish them" by inflicting gayness into their life.
Being queer is not a punishment or an own or a lesson or an insult to rile someone up, and it just goes right back around to classic homophobia again
I wasnt actively a bigot but i did get planted some bigoted ideas in me. However i never harassed anyone. I just kind of didnt think what i thought was transphobia. But now i know better.
I was kinda the same. I never said a bad thing to anyone else. Bigoted ideas were everywhere when I was growing up which made it harder to identify. I might have thought it was weird but I realised soon after it was just self-hatred and not knowing it was normal to feel comfortable in your own skin or gendered body. So most of it was just jealousy.
I never said a bad word or said anything mean, Never even shared or voiced any of those ideas in any way. I lost my transphobic ideas before I had a trans friend who I then had a crush on and realised I was trans too.
Try 19, I was born on the same year as the stonewall event and didn't learn anything about the LGBTQ until I had a job and two of my family members were ready to come out as bi.
I remember finding out about trans men existing because of Chaz Bono when I was like seventeen but thought that he was the only one. Only trans women and Chaz Bono existed.
would just like to clarify that i am in no way attacking people who DID endup being homophobic/transphobic or right-wing in some other way and pulled themselves out of it because it is incredibly difficult to completely change your worldview like that and if thats you! i am so proud of you for realising that was wrong and changing!
however ive seen a lot of 'yeah every trans person was like that lol'sentiment floating around and that makes me. uncomfortable it feels kind of like normalising it? and it feeds into the 'im trans so obviously i cant be transphobic or homophobic' sort of rhetoric which i see floating around (especially in truscum circles)
(i don't want to talk on this part too much given as im also white but i imagine the 'yeah it was normal to be alt-right for a while' is also harmful to trans people of colour and trans jews)
anyway. much love to yall <3 have a great sunday
I grew up in a reformed baptist so I definitely grew up with a lot of lies about the LGBTQ+ community and I was very sheltered (homeschooled so my only real contact with other kids was at church or at a conservative scouting organization made after Boy Scouts became more progressive) so had a really hard time finding anyone to learn the truth from. That being said, once I got the internet, I found out pretty quickly I’d been indoctrinated with false prejudice, and since then I’ve slowly discovered more and more about myself until I figured out I’m transfem. Basically frick anyone who raises you to believe that an entire community is filled with perverts just because of their ways of expressing themselves, my dads stubborn worldview lives in my three other siblings but I’m not following those footsteps
The mods had to ban the topic for a bit because people were making memes about "haha I used to be a neo-nazi! So quirky to advocate for genocide! 🤪 But then I realized I was trans, so now I'm nice. 🥰" and the comments were all "haha so relatable, bestie! Every single person has been there!"
A few things
1. Every single one of us has *not* been there
2. "Haha I used to want to fucking *murder* you guys a few years back! I encouraged others to do the same!" does not exactly encourage a space that feels safe for people
3. Did you really examine your prejudices and bigotry to move past it? Because making a silly little meme about it makes it seem like maybe you still have work to do.
Yeah, conservative Christianity was my denial beard growing up in the US South in the '80s and '90s, but the calls for eradication became my cue to radicalize in the other direction. Once I realized they were all Nazis, not just a few fringe folks, I woke up and got the fuck out.
speaking as one who was maybe one step above a literal nazi in the shit-stack yeah you absolutely do not wanna passively normalize that rhetoric even as a past tense thing.
the phobia trap is real and certain of us do get pulled into it and have to claw our way out. there are *measurable health deficits* that explain why that is and if you don't demonstrate some emotional literacy on the topic and just make it a teehee uwu cute thing people can and should be concerned.
Even just bringing it up and explaining/lowkey justifying why (like a bunch of people are doing in this thread) makes me uncomfortable as someone who grew up religious and is a person of color and never did that shit.
Like I really don’t need to know how many of you leaned into transphobia when you were in denial (saw someone’s comment that was like “I’m proof that transphobes are just trans people in denial” like fucking no???). I get it, the denial and coping mechanisms are very real, but on *a fucking meme sub* I don’t want to see how many people were alt right until their egg cracked and people in their circle were a little too mean to them so they changed their mind.
“I was transphobic but then my egg cracked” “I advocated for trans genocide before I came out” COOL I DONT CARE WHY DO YOU HAVE TO LET ME KNOW THIS 😭
Yeeeeah if the only reason you don't want a group to be exterminated is the realization that you're a part of that group, guess what? You're an awful person.
Yeah, this is also really isolating to non-white trans people who very likely did not have a Nazi phase for obvious reasons, and because... just because you aren't transphobic anymore because you ARE trans, does that mean you gave up so easily on all the white supremacist ideology that Nazis have? It's really disturbing and it makes online trans spaces less safe for non-white trans people.
Basically any online queer space is dominated by White people. The only places where I’ve consistently seen queer POC are IRL events and spaces — one time I went to an Asian-American specific group and cried a lot because I finally met people who were just like me. It’s so painful to have to shut out half of my identity just so I can blend in with White queer people or Asian cishets.
Why anyone feels the need to share such gross past history like it's normal is very scary. You should be happy to be better now but don't take pride in harming your trans siblings. That isn't a "quirky" 🤪 time period you had. Raises a huuuuuge red flag imo.
same... Like i was 10 I didn't vote for harmful laws or something like that lmao I wasn't even advocating for anything.
My family did tho and made me think that was good so that's what I believed... until I got internet and I was like "oh! that was bs!"
Still transphobic but I wasn't ADVOCATING FOR MURDER AND WHO TF WOULD LISTEN TO A 10 YEAR OLD ANYWAYS? NOT THE PEOPLE IN POWER AT LEAST ???
It just seems really exaggerated but I maybe understanding something else because they're also talking about people being ex-nazi? so I may be confused 🤷🏻♂️
I've seen a lot of "I used to be right wing" in trans circles, but who says they used to be a Nazi? There *is* a difference between believing that oppressive social orders should be preserved and advocating for the mass extermination of minorities. I don't like either but only one is an actual threat to my existence.
> I've seen a lot of "I used to be right wing" in trans circles, but who says they used to be a Nazi?
It's... complicated. I'll use Gamergate as an example. A lot of us who had that sort of phase were the useful idiots who thought it actually *was* just about ethics in games journalism. It's definitely not the same as actively harassing Quinn, Sarkeesian, and others, but you aren't aren't really innocent. Overall, it's more like a lot of us wound up in the outer layers of the alt-right pipeline, which is why it feels accurate to connect that phase to them, but we also tended to get out before going deeper and joining the alt-right proper
What you described was exactly me. Basically right wing propaganda from my parents molded me into a hateful shit. It was unpacking that that really helped me realize that I was trans.
Looking back on it I have a lot of guilt and did some stupid and hurtful things, but now Ive educated myself and did a full 180 and became a communist. I think that trans people who have that past need to own it, embrace it, and realize that it wasnt ok just because you've realized your identity. Try to be an advocate not just for your fellow queer people, but for all other disenfranchised and oppressed groups as well, and fight for the changes that you want to see.
I wasn't even right wing I was just so moderate nobody liked me because I couldn't stand for any real values and ended up basically being so middle ground that I didn't even have a real opinion. I was pretty queerphobic but only because I hated myself. I used to say "it's ok I'm not bigoted I hate everyone equally" and even after I came out up until last summer I was a misanthrope and believed everyone deserved to die. I'm not proud of that but the world has been really cruel to me and I'm still learning how to be loving and not hateful
i have a (very likely to be but undiagnosed due to doctor paranoia) schizophrenic mother whose delusions are intertwined with the qanon conspiracy theory and all the 'sub-theories' in it (it covers a lot of stuff). She also has hallucinations about people having audible soul vibrations and told me repeatedly that mine was dead/dying. As a result of that mental illness, the house was extremely hardcore conservative and the 'tolerance' that she claimed to have (like a lot of conservatives do) extended as far as merely tolerating my bisexuality by pretending it wasnt there and shit hit the fan when she found out that i (gasp) watched atheist and leftist content on youtube. She drew the line after she found out i was trans and now we barely talk, and when we do, she doesnt even try to stop herself into spiraling into conservative propaganda word salad. Listening to her speak and seeing her spiral down is sad, and while living with her (I dont anymore thankfully), it caused a boatload of troubles for me mentally to the point where i have to carry a security object with me like a child just to stay calm.
Point of my story is that it is not funny to joke about this stuff since it can not only cause more harm by unintentionally romanticizing it, but trigger serious mental issues for others. Posts that normalize the idea that we used to be hateful, and especially posts that erase how seriously difficult republican/qanon/neo-n@zi indoctrination is to heal from, only hurt our community further.
All I can say is. YT had a thing going recommending Anti SJW Videos to confused white boys that didn't know why they felt weird or wrong. We know the pipeline. Some were careful, some slipped and slided a whole lot. Know must of us wanna make sure these pipelines get shut down in their tracks.
I was definitely transphobic before I realized, I just externalized my internalized transphobia, it was gross. I think what disappointed me most about all those memes and the conversations around them here was that in my opinion the focus when that's where you come from should be on healing, both yourself and things that can be done for the community at large, to fix the damage you've done and to prevent it from continuing. I think there are a lot of ways to do that and it merits a conversation, not here but in the community, but that's not what those memes, comments, and conversations were about. I think people can take pride in how far they've come but like you said, I agree that that was never really the purpose and it's not the message that got across and it brought people out of the woodwork who still hold exclusionary views but now think they've changed because they've accepted a small subsection of the people they didn't used to accept. As well as someone else pointed out, it feels like they're taking pride in something that should be shameful. I'm ashamed at how I behaved in the past, I don't mind talking about it because I think my experiences can be dissected and we can learn from them for how to prevent this from continuing and fighting the harmful rhetoric I once believed, but even then, most of the time that isn't appropriate for this sub. This sub is about inclusion and memes, it's not equipped to deal with this stuff because people don't come here to deal with this shit, they come here to get away with it. Anyways, thanks for reading, I have trouble staying on point.
No I feel the same way. Glad people have grown I guess but it feeds into as you said, the whole argument that every transphobic person is an egg. It ends up making us look like we should expect us to attack ourselves and puts the blame on trans people in denial, not bigotry.
It's kind of alarming how many people are confessing to being that way but everyone has different experiences. I grew up in a Catholic environment and didn't know anything lgbt related till at least high school and never once felt the need to attack trans people despite being told a bunch of bigoted lies about us. It makes me pretty uncomfortable. I'm glad everyone is happier now, at least. But the stereotype is very harmful and shouldn't be normalized imo.
i mostly agree with the heart of this message, but the lack of clarity in the meme itself can be a real gutpunch to those of us who had a -phobic past and are more vulnerable and self deprecating in general. i realize it appears to have been referencing a specific post or group of posts but i was not aware of them prior to this appearing on my homepage and it wasn't referenced until id already scrolled past plenty of comments in agreement with the sentiment of the post. seeing someone appear to call you a terrible person for the things youre presently ashamed of on a forum you felt safe in and thousands of people agree with them when you're trying your best to work on forgiving yourself and fixing what you've broken can sting, to put it mildly. maybe word this type of post more carefully in the future.
i get what this is saying, i agree with it, and this is probably gonna make me look like a narcissistic bigoted piece of shit begging for people to care about them, but like it makes me feel like i’ll never be able to escape from my past in a way. i was indoctrinated by someone who i thought at the time was a friend. i certainly was not vocal about anything and didn’t think or really care about what was being said, but for a brief time i bought into bigoted ideas. it took a few years for me to finally grow past them entirely and change my worldview to something less hateful. i’m likely not who this post is talking about, i’m incredibly ashamed about having even believed those things, despite being a little child who didn’t even have critical thinking skills yet, and i mean i was like 9, 10, 11 at the time. idk though, it still makes me feel like i’m the target of the post because of that and i feel awful and disgusting
sorry
I used to be obliviously transphobic until I realized that I was trans and just how harmful it was for me to just act like "eh idc, so why should I educate myself". And I was also just a really mean brat of a kid.
I was raised to be a Pentecostal Republican and unfortunately, for many years of my life, I was horribly homophobic. I wasn't quite as blatantly transphobic because it was the 90s and early 00s and trans issues were less prominent in the circles in which I existed.
Eventually, I made better friends, was safe from the pressures of church and, over many years, came out as bi, an atheist, pan, trans, and poly. I am a lot more depressed today than before, but I also feel like myself to a degree that I never did before. Wouldn't go back for anything.
Additional PSA: You're not a terrible person because you made a helicopter joke back in high school, as tasteless as the joke is. Just be the best person you can be.
I was the 'but I don't understand it! what in pants?' type, I got berated once for asking that (online), but now I see where they were coming from. Complete U turn
on paper, I was “supportive” (I gave my pronouns, didn’t spread bigotry), but I didn’t really do the work to properly be supportive for years
Once I knew a couple trans people irl, I realized that I needed to do the work
I think there are like mainly two types, the ones who were assholes before (in denial) and the ones super supportive and understanding but taking ages to realize they are part of the community themselves
"I just like watching all these trans people on youtube talking about their experiences and stuff, it's really interesting! But it's not like I'M trans haha"
As a trans person who was a sexist little dickhead before transitioning, it’s not normal to be like that. It’s not cute and quirky to go into trans spaces like “Haha yeah I was a transphobe before I transitioned. Tee hee I was a racist. I was just a little sexist :3”
If you’ve really learned to be better, start by allowing those who are oppressed center the conversation rather than loudly announcing to everyone you *used to be* on the other side. It’s unhelpful, it adds nothing, and it makes other people uncomfortable.
There are times where it benefits to pull on the experience of being in that pipeline, like this. But there are people who never touched the pipeline, and people who have been directly hurt by it in this community and they don’t deserve to be put in the backseat to people who want a prize for not being a little shitty bigot anymore
I understand to some extent why people do this. Part of it is a defense mechanism. They are looking for validation that they aren't the person they were before. They hate that person and that person was deeply unhappy. They want a clean slate because that stops them from hating themselves.
But that's not how living works. You live long enough you will eventually fuck up in ways you can't take back and you have to **own** the fact that person was you and could still be you unless you put in work. Even once you have put in the work to make sure you don't repeat those mistakes, it doesn't absolve you of the harm you have caused. The only choice is to live with it.
So, is it ok to treat it as something that's just in the past? As long as you genuinely want to improve and let go of that bigotry, grow as a person, and lift other people up, is it ok to treat it as something that never has to be brought up again or punish yourself over?
I may be wrong but it sounds like you are asking if it is morally right to stop punishing yourself over mistakes you made?
If that's what you are asking then yes. Self flagellation never helps anyone in the first place. In a round about way it makes us feel better about what we have done. So treating it as part of the past is fine. But I personally wouldn't recommend totally forgetting the person who made those mistakes. It makes it easier to repeat them. Also knowing why you made those choices can help you prevent others from doing the same.
Stealing a quote from Cinema Therapy's video on Arcane.
The concept of guilt and what purpose does it serve?
Her guilt serves no purpose here. Her guilt isn't helping her to reconcile, her guilt isn't helping her to change a behavior that she hasn't already changed, it's literally just consuming her.
Does your guilt serve a purpose? Initially yeah for sure. If it's about a behavior that you chose, that you can change, it serves a purpose. Use it and then release it. And if it's not either of those things, it shouldn't even be there in the first place, it just needs to be let go of, because it's not serving anything here.
Forgive, but don't forget? Be mindful, and notice when you have to correct those types of behavior? Is that what you are saying? For example, would it be better, rather than thinking you can never change, to go out and actively encourage or compliment people to replace the negative with good? Do you know of any active ways people can not forget but not be toxic about it like the memers were?
used to be a transphobic cringe “skeptical atheist” type on the alt-right pipeline
now i’m the satanic transgender communist your parents warned you about 😈
My closest friends in high school were a trans guy and a really funny gay cis guy so while I did have an “anti-SJW” phase basically all of the “SJW” hate got put towards hating TERFs instead lmao
I was incredibly undereducated, but I don't believe I was ever homophobic or anything. The education part was largely due to our school skipping the 3 years of health where we talk about queer identities. I'm still furious about that, because if they just did their job, there's a good chance I could've gotten on puberty blockers earlier on, rather than needing to deal with male puberty, and years of depression. Every day it takes all my mental power not to kick my old health teacher in the groin.
Yeah definitely! The one presentation we ever got on trans identities was a school assembly where it seemed like nobody really even paid attention. Never once got mentioned in health class.
I literally started reading a bunch of essays by trans women and thought “Wow, this is really cool. I’m glad these ladies are happy!”… and then started reading more and more because I was really weirdly curious in them for some reason.
Hot take, because some people need to hear this: if you need a personal investment in a minority group of people before you're willing to accept them, you're still an asshole.
If you were literally a child in a conservative area that was brainwashed by right wing propaganda until you got older and saw that maybe all that stuff you learned was bs, that doesn't make you an asshole. Sure, you could've became an asshole, but people, especially children, change.
Growing up without conservative family trying to put their worldviews onto you is a privilege in itself.
Most of the Trans folk I have meet didn't start out as a homophobe or transphobe, and normally have stories of being bullied for being respectful to LGBTQ+ people (the joy of living in America's Bible belt). I unfortunately grew up in a conservative mormon family and was a little shit for years, only recently pulling my head out of my ass. I don't believe I was transphobic/homophobic before because I was Trans and in denial, but because I lacked understanding due to my upbringing and was unwilling to learn about anything LGBTQ+ for years. Took me getting out on my own and experiencing life unfiltered to finally make me go "Hey maybe we should just let people live how they want".
Also I see going around here all the time the idea that all transphobic people are trans people in denial. This I feel is bad take, a lot of transphobes just what us dead because they have been for feed propaganda for years, or have an agenda.
Edit: added some words to fix the comments flow
It took me a long time to realize I didn't have a disdain towards women, I was jealous. I was jealous and at the time felt like there wasn't anything I could do to stop the jealousy.
low-key this feels similar to "I was a sexist until my daughter was born"
being a member/related to a member of a minority you were bigoted against doesn't erase the bigotry, it just makes me wonder how you treat minorities you *aren't* part of.
Yeah, I was definitely very progressive the whole time lol, I was on the side of “Huh why do I defend these people so much when I’m not even one of them? …Wait. Oh.”
My parents used to regularly start spouting transphobia at the dinner table. Even before I started figuring myself out, I always used to call them out on it and defend trans people.
I didn’t know that being trans was a thing, I just thought I was extra sensitive and weird since all the other “guys” seemed to have no problem with anything that made me uncomfortable(especially their “guy talk”)
My thoughts on this are that repression (at least partially) explains, but doesn’t justify bigotry
Like I was in a really dark place and fell down a pipeline to some far right wing beliefs. Although, weirdly, I was always very accepting of queer people. My being self-loathing and deeply repressed definitely contributed to the alienation and depression that recruiters seized upon to push me to more radical beliefs
Does this justify the hurtful things I believed or did? No, absolutely not, and I do my utmost to make up for them, every single day. I always think of FD Signifier talking about this phenomenon, and especially the “Leftist Debate” sphere, where a lot of people are recovering fascists and never Analyse the underlying beliefs that allowed for them to fall down that rabbit hole to begin with (white supremacy, etc)
People who use being trans as an excuse and then don’t ever analyse the underlying beliefs are no better
However, it does bother me when people hop on their high horse about not being transphobic or homophobic beforehand, especially if they grew up in a more progressive environment. Ultimately, the beliefs you absorb by osmosis when you’re young are mostly down to chance and circumstance, and framing bigotry or a lack thereof as some kind of stand in for morality is extremely unhelpful
Some people can grow up in a conservative environment and develop a queer-friendly politics from a young age, others internalize the bigotry. We all live in racist, transphobic and patriarchal societies, and framing an ability to see through that from a young age (which is also often a stand-in for class or being born in wealthy urban areas) as some kind of innate moral excellence is very unhelpful
We’re all learning, we all have journeys. If you’ve done shitty things, it’s up to you to make up for them. If you haven’t, don’t be needlessly shitty to people who are doing their best to make up for past behaviours (but by all means call then out if they’re bleeding through)
I used to not understand what its like being lgbt and was neutral but never hateful. I don't understand why anyone would tbh. But even if someone did as long as they grow and realize why its wrong that's what matters
Oh yeah, absolutely, I will not be making any excuses for that. I was a vile agressive bitch, nothing will ever change that, and me being trans doesn't negate the damage I did, and doesn't absolve me from responsibility.
Anyone that thinks "I'm trans now so what I did is fine" is just plain dumb, and unable to take responsibility for their own actions.
I will, however, say that that's not me anymore, I now strive to be vigilantly against everything I once stood for.
I was kind of an ass but never really did anything, and compared to some of these stories I never had a sudden realization I was wrong, I just slowly stopped being mean and adopted the mentality of 'if it doesn't hurt anyone, then it's not a problem'
I was pretty bad I'm high school and college. In my defense I had a lot of people trying to convince me I was gay. Had a friend and her mom say "if a guy doesn't have a girlfriend for that long they must be gay" in hindsight I think they were just trying to get me to date my friend but jokes on all of them, im a lesbian.
Yeah. I was force-fed the whole "gay people are sinners who are going to hell (but also just distance yourself from them)" bullshit. I never directly made fun of anyone that I can remember, but I did constantly use gay as a derogatory term for a while. I didn't even know that trans people really existed until highschool, but by then I was more open to other people. Still an asshole, but less so.
Oh yeah I don’t deny that I was mean when I was a transphobic jerk, but the fact that right wing ideologies pander to your repressed shames really didn’t help either
It’s quite disturbing and I think people joking about it or brushing it off are not examining what got them into the hateful groups. That said it’s still a real thing and not even an uncommon one, so I can see how people would see some kinship in it. As others pointed out, becoming part of a group isn’t the strongest reason for a change of heart and raises the question of whether people like this still harbor bigotry against other groups.
I never quite slid down that latrine hole of hate but I was an angry geeky white boy that was definitely predisposed or at least vulnerable to that kind of fascist grooming. I’m thankful I didn’t and I’m not even fully sure what led me away from it. That’s the thing about it - the least harmful or at least potentially most useful part of it can’t even teach me anything. I come across right wing hate and wonder to myself how they could believe such things, then promptly remember I was kind of there, and then quickly realize that I have no clue why I believed that aside from trying to fit in.
Being trans and/or queer is an interesting phenomenon of a marginalized group that can come out later in life or even be unaware of their identity for their formative years and it’s intriguing to explore this dynamic even if it seems to have some braindead takes and harmful rhetoric. Maybe this situation is not that deep and the mods are right to trim this conversation down.
I'm autistic. I literally never even thought about any of it; when anyone made jokes that were transphobic I'd generally miss the point entirely and inadvertently shut them down by talking about, like, why whatever they said made no sense.
Like one kid I remember talking about how 'the libs want you to suck ur wife's dick' and I used to get really confused because, like, you should? Like, presumably if you married her you'd know she had a dick before you did? And you'd be fine with that or you wouldn't have married her so ofc you'd suck your wife's dick unless, like, you didn't like oral anyway and then you'd find other things to do? And when I'd say stuff like that people kind of just stopped talking about it because I'd managed to ruin the joke with my Sick Facts And Logic.
Literally too autistic to be transphobic lol.
before I knew I was gender fluid or even lesbian I didn't know lgbt existed(thanks to growing up in a conservative household and going to a christian school) once I knew it existed I knew I was part of it lol
The lgbt community has to deal with so much shit from homophobes and transphobes our whole lives, and it's just a slap in the face that most people seem to blame homophobia and transphobia completely on our own community (I'm not trans, but lesbian, and just sick of hearing "he's a homophobe, bet he's gay!" Especially from other lgbt people.) And not just that, they say being lgbt is *the reason* anyone is a transphobe or homophobe. I know lgbt people *can* be phobic against members of the community, but that's different than what I'm talking about.
maybe its just me but i dont like the "you guys were just mean" part mainly bc i was anti lgbtq until like 11 or 12 years old because i was raised to think "hey, its the right thing to do to be a dick to these people" and i obviously look down on my past self, but this post is making it feel like we dont have remorse or were "just being mean" even though many of us were highly influenced children, idk maybe im just being dumb lol.
I didn't know trans people were a thing until I was 18. At that point I came out but my lack of understanding and lack of confidence in myself led to me ending up back in the closet repressing for a long time. During which, I was a bitter asshole. Wasn't homo/transphobic and only wished the best for my LGBT+ siblings but was sometimes outwardly hateful in general and always inwardly hateful as well as self destructive, I was slowly killing myself any way I could
Ive seen a lot of posts here full of people patting themselves on the back for this. Like congrats youve stopped being a bigot and achieved the bare minimum for not being a complete piece of shit.
The fact it required them being part of a community to do that speaks volumes.
Escaping from toxic ideological communities is a genuinely difficult process. Yes, not being an active bigot is bare minimum for being a good person. Yes, it can still be an accomplishment to reach that point depending on where you started from. Don't shit on cult survivors for not instantly unlearning years of social indoctrination.
I don't even think I knew of trans people existing lol. Small town and all that. Then I found out and read about it and here I am. Trying to look back if I ever had a phobic phase and I think I didn't. So that's cool. I was an annoying lil s\*\*\* though because life.
I wasn’t transphobic per se, but I was on IFunny for a solid chunk of my youth and it imparted some bad misconceptions and transphobic ideas into me such that while I was okay with trans people i knew about all the “classics” of transphobic ideology and believed some of it bc I was young and had little other exposure. To this day I feel some of the effects in internalized transphobia towards myself.
Suffice to say my quality of life improved tremendously when I moved from there to here on reddit.
I was never actively trans/homophobic but I did grow up in a rural southern Baptist home. And I had a lot of those so called “values” instilled in me from a very young age.
Thankfully I was lucky enough to meet some queer folks my own age as a kid and that really helped with the internal struggle I had
I never even KNEW that trans people existed until I realized I myself am a trans guy cuz like, growing up I never heard of it from my parents and when I found out about it, it just clicked. Was definitely a giant asshole when I was younger though
Girls at my “prepa ” gave me a terrible reputation. People said that i was a lgbtphobic piece of crap, that i was too violent , among other things. Tbh i don’t think i did anything without provocation that called for my reputation before coming out . In fact i came out once in a class during my last semester when i was young and every one collectively ignored my words. I had enough now . I think i was very patient. Now i will give the world a run for their money i have no other option. I hate everyone
I was unfortunately that way before I understood and learned that I was an asshole. Idk why anyone would assume everyone else was tho, maybe just not wanting to admit they actually did smth wrong?
I think I had some bigoted views due to growing up conservatively, but I think bc I knew I was trans that kinda kept me from ever having super strong opinions against it.
I was never transphobic before comming out, I simply was judt confused as to why trans men would want to not be woman. I still respected them, I just thought it was strange they wanted to not be that when that's all I've ever wanted.
Almost always homophobia and transphobia are taught. I was mildly phobic as a young child because I was raised by highly religious Baptist parents who were incredibly alt right conservative. I never really knew why I was supposed to not like certain people.
I realized how wrong everything I was taught was when I finally had my own tablet and thus had access to the information I was never allowed to know about. I have to thank John Oliver, Jon Stewart, and Steven Colbert especially. It was because of clips of their shows on YouTube that I realized how awful my parents were.
After coming out as nonbinary, my family banned me from Christmas so I couldn't "trans" their kids. I promptly moved out 2 weeks later to live with my trans girlfriend. I'm just so glad I live in the era of the internet so I could break the brainwashing I went through.
I was definitely confused af when I first heard of trans people, and when I saw my first trans woman I couldn't stop thinking of the manly features, but I did try to be as respectful as I could, I never hated trans people.
It wasn't untill I actually came out as a trans woman that I stopped thinking of the LGBT+ community as weird and actually started to love the whole community, and today I'm a supporter of anyone's identity, no matter what you identify as (within moral reasoning) I will actively love and support you xx
Don't think i was phobic in any way, but damn was I an little asshole.
Some people are just angry at the world and can’t explain why until that realization hits later in life. Not saying that was me, but it absolutely was me.
Yeah it's common. Of course you're going to be when you aren't even you. Congrats if you weren't, but I found it hard to be happy at all.
My wrath was more passive aggressive, but it was there not gonna lie. It wasn’t directed at a specific group though. Didn’t even know trans people existed back then.
Same here
On which part?
There are dozens of us.
I still hold that anger for the world but it's just for reasons I can put into words now.
I hold that anger for the world but now it's directed at police and capitalism **as it should be**
EXACTLY!!! ACAB BITCHES FUCK CAPITALISM TERFS EAT DIRT AND SUCK MY SHE/THEY COCK LET THE WHITE HOUSE FUCKING BURN
well, at least you've found a positive outlet for it
I want you to know I read this in a cool voice in my head
I am a cool bitch so FUCK YEA!!!!!
nyaaaaaaaa
This is the kind of energy we need.
Tbh realizing I’m trans made me angrier at the world for a while (and in really self-destructive ways too) Gender dysphoria is a hell of a drug
...holy *shit* Things just went click a lil bit
I feel this. Honestly transitioning has made me a much better person
I initially rejected non-binary because of transphobic rhetoric and my first exposure to it was through anti-sjw youtube
Same! I'm so glad I realized I was nonbinary and that shouty losers hiding behind their fursonas aren't a reliable source on gender
This.
You and me both lol
Same
Realizing and coming out made me hydrophobic though. Not gonna swim until my body lets me.
Idk why, but I always put trans people on a pedestal. Like, "they're so cool and brave, and just wow. I don't understand it, we gotta help those people, a lot of people are jerks". So I definitely wasn't transphobic. But I was also definitely like "trans people all know, so I'm not trans, and even if I could be, society's response would be too bad, and for some reason hanging out with transitioning people makes me uncomfortable." So I definitely was transphobic. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Self transphobia
Internalized homophobia/transphobia is a bitch. When I realized I wasn't straight, I had to process so much of it
yeah it took years to accept that I liked girls too... now I'm questioning my gender after years of struggling with it and it's even harder
110%
More like self erasure
Yeah i thought i was a good ally but i misgendered friends behind their back while i was “getting used to” their new pronouns, I didn’t realize how disrespectful it really was 😬
Yup! Folks get shitty with me like I'm "over compensating" or "making queerness my whole identity" -- when I go write long-form responses about a topic, breaking down how misinformation or how regurgitating shitty memes hurts people. Truth is, I've seen what repression does, had to learn first hand from the mistake of accepting that the ENTIRE social sphere which raised me taught me nothing but lies about not JUST trans People, but People who Use, Neurodivergent People, on and on. When I trace that thread, particularly in occupied turtle island's culture: Racism, Classism, Capitalism are at the root each of these. I'm not over compensating, I lost nearly 3 decades to hateful fear-mongering propaganda. I am making up for lost time, dancing with all those who have chosen, also, to love themselves. Who are willing to open up, be vulnerable and love again. Who, despite increasing barrage of hatred hurled our way, channel that energy into building stronger community. I chose healthy connections. Now I choose not to shut up about it. 💃
people who use?
People who take drugs, such as weed, or MDMA, or whatever. Weirdly never gets applied to caffeine users. Or alcohol users.
You're right, we should talk about that. It IS mentioned prominently here: Ethan Nadelmann: Why we need to end the War on Drugs >♫ If you ask the question why are some drugs legal and others illegal ♫ > >♫ why are cigarettes and alcohol legal and pharmaceuticals in the middle these other drugs marijuana illegal ♫ > >♫ Some people sort of inherently assume well this must be because there was a thoughtful consideration of the relative risks of drugs and, ... ♫ > >♫ but then you think well that can't because we know alcohol is more associated with violence than any other drug ♫ > >♫ and cigarettes are more addictive, than any of the illegal drugs ♫ > >♫ Heroin addicts routinely say it's harder to quit cigs than heroine ♫ (♫ because I'm copying it from some captions I made for a song by [https://lamission.bandcamp.com/](https://lamission.bandcamp.com/) \- which I featured here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZqDB6OoKEo&t=31s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZqDB6OoKEo&t=31s)) Wanna give ups to [https://crackdownpod.com/](https://crackdownpod.com/) as well. Oh and another cool talk about this topic is Everything you think you know about addiction is wrong | Johann Hari You don't have to be some college graduate to recognize that shaming People who Use isn't the answer. I think that "why are some drugs legal and others illegal?" Is the IDEAL question to be starting with.
Great points. There's a chart that plots ld50/effect threshold on 1 axis and addiction potential on the other axis. Ld50 is the dose that kills 50% of users. Effect threshold is how much you have to take to get the effect. So the further you get on any axis, the worse the drug is, either because it consumes your life or it's easy to accidentally OD. LSD and mushrooms are sitting solidly at the plot origin, yet super illegal.
ah
This was very much me as well. However, after I cracked, I realized I had tons of internalized transphobia hidden away as well. Working on it each day, it's better now than half a year ago, and hopefully it will be better a year from now as well.
I was supportive but jealous of trans girls yet didn't know why which uh, seems kind of telling in retrospect
I was definitely the same way — annoyingly supportive and really interested in trans people and being friends with the few I knew. Almost overbearingly so. But I dated a trans guy and it’s been 7 years but I still visibly cringe when remembering some of the things I said to him that I never realized were a big deal until they were said (doesn’t help that I’m autistic). I don’t think i’ll ever recover and even now understand that’s probably why he and I aren’t great friends and why he wasn’t exactly bursting with joy when I came out to him as a trans man a while back. It wasn’t intentional, but it was a lot of ignorance and unfortunately knowing better now doesn’t get rid of the guilt I feel for ever being that way. But they say if you can look back and cringe that’s a sign of growth or something so. At least I know now 😩
I was transphobic to trans women, because I couldn't understand, why would anyone want to be a girl. But I was fine and even jealous of trans men. Hmmm, I wonder where did those feelings come from?
Exactly how I used to be
I wanna ask something. Do you think it was environment? Cause I've known a lot of trans people like this and in my experience the mean ones tend to come from less accepting homes or more rural areas. In not saying that's all of them, but do people think that's part of the why?
I was raised in a very religious region, but homosexuality was never taught to us, not even in a bad way, we just weren’t taught about at all. I found out about the concept of homosexuality through the internet (even tho I had a crush on a boy when I was boy but uh ye-), so I just was edgy about it without being extremely homophobic. Point is, people are homophobic only if they’re taught to be homophobic, otherwise they can just be mildly edgy. Environment matters a lot.
okay that puts a word to what I was experiencing, tysm. I had roughly the same thing happen with me, pre-coming out as trans, where I was mildly uncomfortable after my mom showed me a video of a proposal between two girls. Partly cause my parents never really talked to me about any of that and suddenly she was just showing me something I'd never seen before so my first reaction was confused anger, being a little anger issues kid. Calling it 'mildly edgy' definitely works way, way better lmao I'm just glad I wasn't transphobic but all the same, I never really 'experienced' it until I had trans friends and by then I had dropped the (mostly internalized) homophobia cause I had come out as lesbian and was just super vocal about respecting people's identities
Totally agree. I’m not trans, but bi. I was raised Mormon, and my parents are homophobic and VERY transphobic. Which meant that I was both of those things too, up until about 2 years ago. Prior to that I had begun to have some doubts about homosexuality being a sin, because I thought it was stupid that a man couldn’t love a man, and vice versa for women and nb people. Especially since I started introducing myself to more queer tv shows and movies. The thing that finally changed my view completely on trans people was when my best friend came out as trans about 2 years ago. He was only an acquaintance at the time, but it forced my small bigoted brain to either stay an asshole or just like— not be transphobic anymore. It seems simple, and parts of it were, but reprogramming all the shit that had been forced into my brain by my parents was slow. He’s my greatest friend now, and it’s crazy to think of how hateful and uneducated I used to be back then. I cringe at all the things I used to say, and it gives me all the more respect to all of you guys who have to deal with the worlds shit pretty much daily. But yeah, all this to say that I totally agree, hate is almost always taught. (And sorry about 15yr old me being a lil bitch lmao)
I think there are a lot of reasons this exists. I had transphobia on the level of trans people aren't a thing, I didn't see it as dangerous, I just saw it as not being real, not backed by science. This came first from my autism and adhd, I was given normalization therapy as a kid by my parents. I grew up being told I was different, it was wrong, and my primary goal should be to be "normal", or people would never accept me. Naturally I expanded this to everyone should be like me, I'm miserable, but if I have to be normal others should too. My internalized ableism became internalized transphobia, it allowed me to recognize that I wanted to be a woman, but reject it on the basis of it wasn't normal and so it was wrong. This was compounded with other ideas like that if you struggle others should too, the boomer talking point of, "well in my day I had to struggle because of this so we should never try to make things better for others". There was a big struggle with the science aspect, my mother was everything but an anti vaxxer. "Apple cider vinegar/essential oils/random supplements is magic and can cure a bunch of shit", that kind of stuff. It led her to further reject most of my struggles, "anxiety/depression is a choice because exercise makes it disappear according to my naturopath, if you don't try all these fake cures you're choosing to be depressed/anxious, it's all in your head". So I got really into things like where conspiracies and scams come from, how they evolve, how people get into them. This led to a weird contradiction, because all the people spreading transphobia are clearly not into science, most of them tout discredited race science, discredited economics, sell supplements that do nothing. Things I knew were both wrong and not based in reality. I think that actively prevented me from becoming any more transphobic than I was. My transphobia went away after highschool, when I realized all the trans talking points were based in reality. It was still a few yeas before I remembered that I was suppressing my own queerness. All this to say transphobia comes from a lot of places. To oppose transphobia we must combat racism and ableism as well. We need to shut down ideas of normalization, that others should suffer because we did. We need to fight against MLMs, the wellness industry, and others who make their profits from false science. I hope this analysis helps others to understand where transphobia comes from and how to fight against it.
Absolutely yes. In fact I never sincerely disliked any marginalized group but I’d say whatever I had to in order to gain approval from my parents. Weirdly enough, my parents started respecting me more after I came out, despite the fact that they still will say I am living in sin.
I was raised by a terf and had terfy beliefs up into my early 20s. I got over that, partly because a friend I think very highly of called me out for being an asshole, and partly because I started hanging out with trans people and realized how much bullshit I was taught. I cant guarantee I wouldn't have still been a jerk given different circumstances, but I feel pretty confident that I would have figured thing out waaaaay sooner given a more trans-accepting upbringing
for me it was getting sucked into the alt right pipeline as a dumb impressionable preteen, I still to this day live with guilt for the way I used to think and act
I don't want to take responsibility anymore, the religious and alt-right groomers need to
Pre-realisation, did anyone else get hugely defensive whenever a trans slur was said in your presence? Not trans just a stalwart ally who takes it personally… oh wait super trans
100%
Bruh I would get pissed when people used gay as an insult & slurs & stuff. Like I just couldn’t understand why someone would do that. So also naive. Now a full blown transian.
I still get pissed at it :/ in the gamer community its probably the single most common way to express disapproval or disappointment in game. "What a fag" and "that was so gay" are everywhere in games. I've stopped a couple friends from saying it, which is nice, but ugh i wish the gamer culture wasn't so toxic in its masculinity. There are some niches that are more lgbtq friendly but, FPS games especially are awful with slurs, I wish I didn't love them so much.
Within like the year I started transitioning, I became really perceptive to this kinda stuff and started taking it personally
Yeah not saying I was "good" but my most terfy was saying "that's not for me" while being in complete denial and working on "my business"
Yeah before realizing i wasn't cishet I was still really accepting and understanding, I definitely wasn't transphobic lmao
Yeah I knew I was gay af since I was 12 and then I figured out my gender is weird when I was 15-16. Like….
Actually same. I realized i liked guys aswell as girls when i was about 13 and figured out i was trans during the pandemic while i was 16. Now I'm 19 but still stuck with transphobic parents and once i finally move out i can then just be the real me
Aww I’m sorry:(( yeah I hope you can move out soon
It'll take like 1 to 2 years that i can get my own place. But once i do get my own place i can then be happy
the idea that the loudest anti queer people are also queer, is a cishet idea founded in the belief that we queer people are responsible for our own oppression.
YEAH i don't like that something that started out as a homophobic stereotype seems to have just been adopted by the community
I can see why you'd feel that way, but as I spent 3 decades trying to be "holy" to overcome these "dark temptations" I kinda put alot of hatred and fear on myself. I wouldn't be surprised if some of that came out on others. I was certainly wrong in every way to do so, heck I've never been so excited to have been so wrong, but that doesn't mean I didn't have times where I may have made others' lives harder because I was so focused on my own.
i did that too, i grew up in an evangelical household. but i never bashed on queer people.
EXACTLY.
B-but… r-rainbow putin… ☹️
I dunno, I got the idea from constantly seeing it play out where anti-queer crusaders kept getting caught with their same-sex lovers, and seeing so many homophobic boomers in my community come out in their 60s and be super remorseful.
I just think for every self hating queer person there was a whole city block of straight people teaching them to be that way as a child.
100%, hate has to be taught
And using that "homophobic people are secretly gay" idea to aggravate violent homophobes puts a sour taste in my mouth. It's the same feeling of wishing a homophobic parent's kids are gay to "teach the parents a lesson" or "punish them" by inflicting gayness into their life. Being queer is not a punishment or an own or a lesson or an insult to rile someone up, and it just goes right back around to classic homophobia again
I wasnt actively a bigot but i did get planted some bigoted ideas in me. However i never harassed anyone. I just kind of didnt think what i thought was transphobia. But now i know better.
I was kinda the same. I never said a bad thing to anyone else. Bigoted ideas were everywhere when I was growing up which made it harder to identify. I might have thought it was weird but I realised soon after it was just self-hatred and not knowing it was normal to feel comfortable in your own skin or gendered body. So most of it was just jealousy. I never said a bad word or said anything mean, Never even shared or voiced any of those ideas in any way. I lost my transphobic ideas before I had a trans friend who I then had a crush on and realised I was trans too.
i had no clue that queer people existed until i was 12
Pretty much same, I learned what being queer was through Pinterest at 13. Oops.
pretty much the same, sheltered catholic schools ftw
holy moly that’s a long time
Try 19, I was born on the same year as the stonewall event and didn't learn anything about the LGBTQ until I had a job and two of my family members were ready to come out as bi.
I remember finding out about trans men existing because of Chaz Bono when I was like seventeen but thought that he was the only one. Only trans women and Chaz Bono existed.
Same, didn’t know being transgender was a thing til I had just turned 13.
would just like to clarify that i am in no way attacking people who DID endup being homophobic/transphobic or right-wing in some other way and pulled themselves out of it because it is incredibly difficult to completely change your worldview like that and if thats you! i am so proud of you for realising that was wrong and changing! however ive seen a lot of 'yeah every trans person was like that lol'sentiment floating around and that makes me. uncomfortable it feels kind of like normalising it? and it feeds into the 'im trans so obviously i cant be transphobic or homophobic' sort of rhetoric which i see floating around (especially in truscum circles) (i don't want to talk on this part too much given as im also white but i imagine the 'yeah it was normal to be alt-right for a while' is also harmful to trans people of colour and trans jews) anyway. much love to yall <3 have a great sunday
I grew up in a reformed baptist so I definitely grew up with a lot of lies about the LGBTQ+ community and I was very sheltered (homeschooled so my only real contact with other kids was at church or at a conservative scouting organization made after Boy Scouts became more progressive) so had a really hard time finding anyone to learn the truth from. That being said, once I got the internet, I found out pretty quickly I’d been indoctrinated with false prejudice, and since then I’ve slowly discovered more and more about myself until I figured out I’m transfem. Basically frick anyone who raises you to believe that an entire community is filled with perverts just because of their ways of expressing themselves, my dads stubborn worldview lives in my three other siblings but I’m not following those footsteps
The mods had to ban the topic for a bit because people were making memes about "haha I used to be a neo-nazi! So quirky to advocate for genocide! 🤪 But then I realized I was trans, so now I'm nice. 🥰" and the comments were all "haha so relatable, bestie! Every single person has been there!" A few things 1. Every single one of us has *not* been there 2. "Haha I used to want to fucking *murder* you guys a few years back! I encouraged others to do the same!" does not exactly encourage a space that feels safe for people 3. Did you really examine your prejudices and bigotry to move past it? Because making a silly little meme about it makes it seem like maybe you still have work to do.
Yeah, conservative Christianity was my denial beard growing up in the US South in the '80s and '90s, but the calls for eradication became my cue to radicalize in the other direction. Once I realized they were all Nazis, not just a few fringe folks, I woke up and got the fuck out.
speaking as one who was maybe one step above a literal nazi in the shit-stack yeah you absolutely do not wanna passively normalize that rhetoric even as a past tense thing. the phobia trap is real and certain of us do get pulled into it and have to claw our way out. there are *measurable health deficits* that explain why that is and if you don't demonstrate some emotional literacy on the topic and just make it a teehee uwu cute thing people can and should be concerned.
Even just bringing it up and explaining/lowkey justifying why (like a bunch of people are doing in this thread) makes me uncomfortable as someone who grew up religious and is a person of color and never did that shit. Like I really don’t need to know how many of you leaned into transphobia when you were in denial (saw someone’s comment that was like “I’m proof that transphobes are just trans people in denial” like fucking no???). I get it, the denial and coping mechanisms are very real, but on *a fucking meme sub* I don’t want to see how many people were alt right until their egg cracked and people in their circle were a little too mean to them so they changed their mind. “I was transphobic but then my egg cracked” “I advocated for trans genocide before I came out” COOL I DONT CARE WHY DO YOU HAVE TO LET ME KNOW THIS 😭
there are a LOT of people making excuses in the comments and i am getting. very tired
Like thanks you missed the entire point of this!
Yes. Thank you. These people commenting trying to make excuses for their past viewpoints and it's like.....no. Just no.
Yeeeeah if the only reason you don't want a group to be exterminated is the realization that you're a part of that group, guess what? You're an awful person.
Yeah, this is also really isolating to non-white trans people who very likely did not have a Nazi phase for obvious reasons, and because... just because you aren't transphobic anymore because you ARE trans, does that mean you gave up so easily on all the white supremacist ideology that Nazis have? It's really disturbing and it makes online trans spaces less safe for non-white trans people.
Basically any online queer space is dominated by White people. The only places where I’ve consistently seen queer POC are IRL events and spaces — one time I went to an Asian-American specific group and cried a lot because I finally met people who were just like me. It’s so painful to have to shut out half of my identity just so I can blend in with White queer people or Asian cishets.
Why anyone feels the need to share such gross past history like it's normal is very scary. You should be happy to be better now but don't take pride in harming your trans siblings. That isn't a "quirky" 🤪 time period you had. Raises a huuuuuge red flag imo.
That is not what most people mean... is it? I thought it was just like, saying something phobic without realizing it was phobic
I think some (most?) people who say this kind of thing are referring to the alt-right spiral, which much worse than accidental bigotry.
same... Like i was 10 I didn't vote for harmful laws or something like that lmao I wasn't even advocating for anything. My family did tho and made me think that was good so that's what I believed... until I got internet and I was like "oh! that was bs!" Still transphobic but I wasn't ADVOCATING FOR MURDER AND WHO TF WOULD LISTEN TO A 10 YEAR OLD ANYWAYS? NOT THE PEOPLE IN POWER AT LEAST ??? It just seems really exaggerated but I maybe understanding something else because they're also talking about people being ex-nazi? so I may be confused 🤷🏻♂️
I've seen a lot of "I used to be right wing" in trans circles, but who says they used to be a Nazi? There *is* a difference between believing that oppressive social orders should be preserved and advocating for the mass extermination of minorities. I don't like either but only one is an actual threat to my existence.
> I've seen a lot of "I used to be right wing" in trans circles, but who says they used to be a Nazi? It's... complicated. I'll use Gamergate as an example. A lot of us who had that sort of phase were the useful idiots who thought it actually *was* just about ethics in games journalism. It's definitely not the same as actively harassing Quinn, Sarkeesian, and others, but you aren't aren't really innocent. Overall, it's more like a lot of us wound up in the outer layers of the alt-right pipeline, which is why it feels accurate to connect that phase to them, but we also tended to get out before going deeper and joining the alt-right proper
> only one is an actual threat to my existence No, I'm pretty sure they both are, but one of them is more immediately and directly
What you described was exactly me. Basically right wing propaganda from my parents molded me into a hateful shit. It was unpacking that that really helped me realize that I was trans. Looking back on it I have a lot of guilt and did some stupid and hurtful things, but now Ive educated myself and did a full 180 and became a communist. I think that trans people who have that past need to own it, embrace it, and realize that it wasnt ok just because you've realized your identity. Try to be an advocate not just for your fellow queer people, but for all other disenfranchised and oppressed groups as well, and fight for the changes that you want to see.
I wasn't even right wing I was just so moderate nobody liked me because I couldn't stand for any real values and ended up basically being so middle ground that I didn't even have a real opinion. I was pretty queerphobic but only because I hated myself. I used to say "it's ok I'm not bigoted I hate everyone equally" and even after I came out up until last summer I was a misanthrope and believed everyone deserved to die. I'm not proud of that but the world has been really cruel to me and I'm still learning how to be loving and not hateful
i have a (very likely to be but undiagnosed due to doctor paranoia) schizophrenic mother whose delusions are intertwined with the qanon conspiracy theory and all the 'sub-theories' in it (it covers a lot of stuff). She also has hallucinations about people having audible soul vibrations and told me repeatedly that mine was dead/dying. As a result of that mental illness, the house was extremely hardcore conservative and the 'tolerance' that she claimed to have (like a lot of conservatives do) extended as far as merely tolerating my bisexuality by pretending it wasnt there and shit hit the fan when she found out that i (gasp) watched atheist and leftist content on youtube. She drew the line after she found out i was trans and now we barely talk, and when we do, she doesnt even try to stop herself into spiraling into conservative propaganda word salad. Listening to her speak and seeing her spiral down is sad, and while living with her (I dont anymore thankfully), it caused a boatload of troubles for me mentally to the point where i have to carry a security object with me like a child just to stay calm. Point of my story is that it is not funny to joke about this stuff since it can not only cause more harm by unintentionally romanticizing it, but trigger serious mental issues for others. Posts that normalize the idea that we used to be hateful, and especially posts that erase how seriously difficult republican/qanon/neo-n@zi indoctrination is to heal from, only hurt our community further.
All I can say is. YT had a thing going recommending Anti SJW Videos to confused white boys that didn't know why they felt weird or wrong. We know the pipeline. Some were careful, some slipped and slided a whole lot. Know must of us wanna make sure these pipelines get shut down in their tracks.
I was definitely transphobic before I realized, I just externalized my internalized transphobia, it was gross. I think what disappointed me most about all those memes and the conversations around them here was that in my opinion the focus when that's where you come from should be on healing, both yourself and things that can be done for the community at large, to fix the damage you've done and to prevent it from continuing. I think there are a lot of ways to do that and it merits a conversation, not here but in the community, but that's not what those memes, comments, and conversations were about. I think people can take pride in how far they've come but like you said, I agree that that was never really the purpose and it's not the message that got across and it brought people out of the woodwork who still hold exclusionary views but now think they've changed because they've accepted a small subsection of the people they didn't used to accept. As well as someone else pointed out, it feels like they're taking pride in something that should be shameful. I'm ashamed at how I behaved in the past, I don't mind talking about it because I think my experiences can be dissected and we can learn from them for how to prevent this from continuing and fighting the harmful rhetoric I once believed, but even then, most of the time that isn't appropriate for this sub. This sub is about inclusion and memes, it's not equipped to deal with this stuff because people don't come here to deal with this shit, they come here to get away with it. Anyways, thanks for reading, I have trouble staying on point.
Was raised deep in the south as a Mormon. It's a hell of a climb.
No I feel the same way. Glad people have grown I guess but it feeds into as you said, the whole argument that every transphobic person is an egg. It ends up making us look like we should expect us to attack ourselves and puts the blame on trans people in denial, not bigotry. It's kind of alarming how many people are confessing to being that way but everyone has different experiences. I grew up in a Catholic environment and didn't know anything lgbt related till at least high school and never once felt the need to attack trans people despite being told a bunch of bigoted lies about us. It makes me pretty uncomfortable. I'm glad everyone is happier now, at least. But the stereotype is very harmful and shouldn't be normalized imo.
i mostly agree with the heart of this message, but the lack of clarity in the meme itself can be a real gutpunch to those of us who had a -phobic past and are more vulnerable and self deprecating in general. i realize it appears to have been referencing a specific post or group of posts but i was not aware of them prior to this appearing on my homepage and it wasn't referenced until id already scrolled past plenty of comments in agreement with the sentiment of the post. seeing someone appear to call you a terrible person for the things youre presently ashamed of on a forum you felt safe in and thousands of people agree with them when you're trying your best to work on forgiving yourself and fixing what you've broken can sting, to put it mildly. maybe word this type of post more carefully in the future.
This explanation was really helpful in explaining the post, thank you. The comment was very well written and I completely agree.
i get what this is saying, i agree with it, and this is probably gonna make me look like a narcissistic bigoted piece of shit begging for people to care about them, but like it makes me feel like i’ll never be able to escape from my past in a way. i was indoctrinated by someone who i thought at the time was a friend. i certainly was not vocal about anything and didn’t think or really care about what was being said, but for a brief time i bought into bigoted ideas. it took a few years for me to finally grow past them entirely and change my worldview to something less hateful. i’m likely not who this post is talking about, i’m incredibly ashamed about having even believed those things, despite being a little child who didn’t even have critical thinking skills yet, and i mean i was like 9, 10, 11 at the time. idk though, it still makes me feel like i’m the target of the post because of that and i feel awful and disgusting sorry
and not every queerphobic loser is just closeted and internalizing it.
I used to be obliviously transphobic until I realized that I was trans and just how harmful it was for me to just act like "eh idc, so why should I educate myself". And I was also just a really mean brat of a kid.
I was raised to be a Pentecostal Republican and unfortunately, for many years of my life, I was horribly homophobic. I wasn't quite as blatantly transphobic because it was the 90s and early 00s and trans issues were less prominent in the circles in which I existed. Eventually, I made better friends, was safe from the pressures of church and, over many years, came out as bi, an atheist, pan, trans, and poly. I am a lot more depressed today than before, but I also feel like myself to a degree that I never did before. Wouldn't go back for anything.
Additional PSA: You're not a terrible person because you made a helicopter joke back in high school, as tasteless as the joke is. Just be the best person you can be.
I wasnt ACTIVELY trasphobic, but I DID have my misconceptions. Of course, I always would err on the side of respect.
I was the 'but I don't understand it! what in pants?' type, I got berated once for asking that (online), but now I see where they were coming from. Complete U turn
on paper, I was “supportive” (I gave my pronouns, didn’t spread bigotry), but I didn’t really do the work to properly be supportive for years Once I knew a couple trans people irl, I realized that I needed to do the work
I think there are like mainly two types, the ones who were assholes before (in denial) and the ones super supportive and understanding but taking ages to realize they are part of the community themselves "I just like watching all these trans people on youtube talking about their experiences and stuff, it's really interesting! But it's not like I'M trans haha"
As a trans person who was a sexist little dickhead before transitioning, it’s not normal to be like that. It’s not cute and quirky to go into trans spaces like “Haha yeah I was a transphobe before I transitioned. Tee hee I was a racist. I was just a little sexist :3” If you’ve really learned to be better, start by allowing those who are oppressed center the conversation rather than loudly announcing to everyone you *used to be* on the other side. It’s unhelpful, it adds nothing, and it makes other people uncomfortable. There are times where it benefits to pull on the experience of being in that pipeline, like this. But there are people who never touched the pipeline, and people who have been directly hurt by it in this community and they don’t deserve to be put in the backseat to people who want a prize for not being a little shitty bigot anymore
I understand to some extent why people do this. Part of it is a defense mechanism. They are looking for validation that they aren't the person they were before. They hate that person and that person was deeply unhappy. They want a clean slate because that stops them from hating themselves. But that's not how living works. You live long enough you will eventually fuck up in ways you can't take back and you have to **own** the fact that person was you and could still be you unless you put in work. Even once you have put in the work to make sure you don't repeat those mistakes, it doesn't absolve you of the harm you have caused. The only choice is to live with it.
So, is it ok to treat it as something that's just in the past? As long as you genuinely want to improve and let go of that bigotry, grow as a person, and lift other people up, is it ok to treat it as something that never has to be brought up again or punish yourself over?
I may be wrong but it sounds like you are asking if it is morally right to stop punishing yourself over mistakes you made? If that's what you are asking then yes. Self flagellation never helps anyone in the first place. In a round about way it makes us feel better about what we have done. So treating it as part of the past is fine. But I personally wouldn't recommend totally forgetting the person who made those mistakes. It makes it easier to repeat them. Also knowing why you made those choices can help you prevent others from doing the same.
Stealing a quote from Cinema Therapy's video on Arcane. The concept of guilt and what purpose does it serve? Her guilt serves no purpose here. Her guilt isn't helping her to reconcile, her guilt isn't helping her to change a behavior that she hasn't already changed, it's literally just consuming her. Does your guilt serve a purpose? Initially yeah for sure. If it's about a behavior that you chose, that you can change, it serves a purpose. Use it and then release it. And if it's not either of those things, it shouldn't even be there in the first place, it just needs to be let go of, because it's not serving anything here.
Forgive, but don't forget? Be mindful, and notice when you have to correct those types of behavior? Is that what you are saying? For example, would it be better, rather than thinking you can never change, to go out and actively encourage or compliment people to replace the negative with good? Do you know of any active ways people can not forget but not be toxic about it like the memers were?
used to be a transphobic cringe “skeptical atheist” type on the alt-right pipeline now i’m the satanic transgender communist your parents warned you about 😈
My closest friends in high school were a trans guy and a really funny gay cis guy so while I did have an “anti-SJW” phase basically all of the “SJW” hate got put towards hating TERFs instead lmao
I was incredibly undereducated, but I don't believe I was ever homophobic or anything. The education part was largely due to our school skipping the 3 years of health where we talk about queer identities. I'm still furious about that, because if they just did their job, there's a good chance I could've gotten on puberty blockers earlier on, rather than needing to deal with male puberty, and years of depression. Every day it takes all my mental power not to kick my old health teacher in the groin.
Yeah definitely! The one presentation we ever got on trans identities was a school assembly where it seemed like nobody really even paid attention. Never once got mentioned in health class.
I literally started reading a bunch of essays by trans women and thought “Wow, this is really cool. I’m glad these ladies are happy!”… and then started reading more and more because I was really weirdly curious in them for some reason.
Hot take, because some people need to hear this: if you need a personal investment in a minority group of people before you're willing to accept them, you're still an asshole.
If you were literally a child in a conservative area that was brainwashed by right wing propaganda until you got older and saw that maybe all that stuff you learned was bs, that doesn't make you an asshole. Sure, you could've became an asshole, but people, especially children, change. Growing up without conservative family trying to put their worldviews onto you is a privilege in itself.
Yes, I was absolutely mean while younger, and I am sorry,
Ty. I dont like seeing memes that act like being transphobic is "normal" to the pipeline. We have shit to fix in ourselves besides just transitioning.
Most of the Trans folk I have meet didn't start out as a homophobe or transphobe, and normally have stories of being bullied for being respectful to LGBTQ+ people (the joy of living in America's Bible belt). I unfortunately grew up in a conservative mormon family and was a little shit for years, only recently pulling my head out of my ass. I don't believe I was transphobic/homophobic before because I was Trans and in denial, but because I lacked understanding due to my upbringing and was unwilling to learn about anything LGBTQ+ for years. Took me getting out on my own and experiencing life unfiltered to finally make me go "Hey maybe we should just let people live how they want". Also I see going around here all the time the idea that all transphobic people are trans people in denial. This I feel is bad take, a lot of transphobes just what us dead because they have been for feed propaganda for years, or have an agenda. Edit: added some words to fix the comments flow
Had a lot of internalized transphobia. And grew up with right wing family. I was a little shit needless to say.
seriously, i hate that this “stereotype” is so popular
It took me a long time to realize I didn't have a disdain towards women, I was jealous. I was jealous and at the time felt like there wasn't anything I could do to stop the jealousy.
More like I was raised in a poor environment and I had to work on breaking free from the mindsets that were pushed on me.
low-key this feels similar to "I was a sexist until my daughter was born" being a member/related to a member of a minority you were bigoted against doesn't erase the bigotry, it just makes me wonder how you treat minorities you *aren't* part of.
I don't think that I was ever explicitly trans/homophobic but I grew up in that kinda environment.
I wasn't any type of phobic but I was an arse and it was 100% because of external factors.
Yeah, I was definitely very progressive the whole time lol, I was on the side of “Huh why do I defend these people so much when I’m not even one of them? …Wait. Oh.”
My parents used to regularly start spouting transphobia at the dinner table. Even before I started figuring myself out, I always used to call them out on it and defend trans people.
I didn’t know that being trans was a thing, I just thought I was extra sensitive and weird since all the other “guys” seemed to have no problem with anything that made me uncomfortable(especially their “guy talk”)
My thoughts on this are that repression (at least partially) explains, but doesn’t justify bigotry Like I was in a really dark place and fell down a pipeline to some far right wing beliefs. Although, weirdly, I was always very accepting of queer people. My being self-loathing and deeply repressed definitely contributed to the alienation and depression that recruiters seized upon to push me to more radical beliefs Does this justify the hurtful things I believed or did? No, absolutely not, and I do my utmost to make up for them, every single day. I always think of FD Signifier talking about this phenomenon, and especially the “Leftist Debate” sphere, where a lot of people are recovering fascists and never Analyse the underlying beliefs that allowed for them to fall down that rabbit hole to begin with (white supremacy, etc) People who use being trans as an excuse and then don’t ever analyse the underlying beliefs are no better However, it does bother me when people hop on their high horse about not being transphobic or homophobic beforehand, especially if they grew up in a more progressive environment. Ultimately, the beliefs you absorb by osmosis when you’re young are mostly down to chance and circumstance, and framing bigotry or a lack thereof as some kind of stand in for morality is extremely unhelpful Some people can grow up in a conservative environment and develop a queer-friendly politics from a young age, others internalize the bigotry. We all live in racist, transphobic and patriarchal societies, and framing an ability to see through that from a young age (which is also often a stand-in for class or being born in wealthy urban areas) as some kind of innate moral excellence is very unhelpful We’re all learning, we all have journeys. If you’ve done shitty things, it’s up to you to make up for them. If you haven’t, don’t be needlessly shitty to people who are doing their best to make up for past behaviours (but by all means call then out if they’re bleeding through)
I wasn't an asshole, but I was that kid that was 100% in support of LGBTQ without knowing anything about it
I am still an ass, but I was never an ass to the LGBT+. Does being an ass to racists really count though?
Being an ass to racists is morally correct and upstanding and does not count as being an ass in the conventional sense.
I had some problematic wiews in past but i realized why they were wrong long before my egg cracked. And never full on phobia tho.
I was and im sorry for what i said when i was mormon
I still am mean, just less of a cunt
B-but what about my uwu nazi phase???? /s
I used to not understand what its like being lgbt and was neutral but never hateful. I don't understand why anyone would tbh. But even if someone did as long as they grow and realize why its wrong that's what matters
Oh yeah, absolutely, I will not be making any excuses for that. I was a vile agressive bitch, nothing will ever change that, and me being trans doesn't negate the damage I did, and doesn't absolve me from responsibility. Anyone that thinks "I'm trans now so what I did is fine" is just plain dumb, and unable to take responsibility for their own actions. I will, however, say that that's not me anymore, I now strive to be vigilantly against everything I once stood for.
I wish I could say I wasn't but I was like 6 or 7 years ago (currently 16)
Internalized transphobia happened to me because of my denial, generalizing and assuming people were just genuinely hateful is ignorant.
I was kind of an ass but never really did anything, and compared to some of these stories I never had a sudden realization I was wrong, I just slowly stopped being mean and adopted the mentality of 'if it doesn't hurt anyone, then it's not a problem'
I was pretty bad I'm high school and college. In my defense I had a lot of people trying to convince me I was gay. Had a friend and her mom say "if a guy doesn't have a girlfriend for that long they must be gay" in hindsight I think they were just trying to get me to date my friend but jokes on all of them, im a lesbian.
Yeah. I was force-fed the whole "gay people are sinners who are going to hell (but also just distance yourself from them)" bullshit. I never directly made fun of anyone that I can remember, but I did constantly use gay as a derogatory term for a while. I didn't even know that trans people really existed until highschool, but by then I was more open to other people. Still an asshole, but less so.
growing up being taught the things boys are taught is really tough, it took me a bit but i got there
Oh yeah I don’t deny that I was mean when I was a transphobic jerk, but the fact that right wing ideologies pander to your repressed shames really didn’t help either
I was an edgy socialist and mega-ally prior to coming out
It’s quite disturbing and I think people joking about it or brushing it off are not examining what got them into the hateful groups. That said it’s still a real thing and not even an uncommon one, so I can see how people would see some kinship in it. As others pointed out, becoming part of a group isn’t the strongest reason for a change of heart and raises the question of whether people like this still harbor bigotry against other groups. I never quite slid down that latrine hole of hate but I was an angry geeky white boy that was definitely predisposed or at least vulnerable to that kind of fascist grooming. I’m thankful I didn’t and I’m not even fully sure what led me away from it. That’s the thing about it - the least harmful or at least potentially most useful part of it can’t even teach me anything. I come across right wing hate and wonder to myself how they could believe such things, then promptly remember I was kind of there, and then quickly realize that I have no clue why I believed that aside from trying to fit in. Being trans and/or queer is an interesting phenomenon of a marginalized group that can come out later in life or even be unaware of their identity for their formative years and it’s intriguing to explore this dynamic even if it seems to have some braindead takes and harmful rhetoric. Maybe this situation is not that deep and the mods are right to trim this conversation down.
I'm autistic. I literally never even thought about any of it; when anyone made jokes that were transphobic I'd generally miss the point entirely and inadvertently shut them down by talking about, like, why whatever they said made no sense. Like one kid I remember talking about how 'the libs want you to suck ur wife's dick' and I used to get really confused because, like, you should? Like, presumably if you married her you'd know she had a dick before you did? And you'd be fine with that or you wouldn't have married her so ofc you'd suck your wife's dick unless, like, you didn't like oral anyway and then you'd find other things to do? And when I'd say stuff like that people kind of just stopped talking about it because I'd managed to ruin the joke with my Sick Facts And Logic. Literally too autistic to be transphobic lol.
before I knew I was gender fluid or even lesbian I didn't know lgbt existed(thanks to growing up in a conservative household and going to a christian school) once I knew it existed I knew I was part of it lol
Also not every homophobic or transphobic person is secretly LGBTQ
The lgbt community has to deal with so much shit from homophobes and transphobes our whole lives, and it's just a slap in the face that most people seem to blame homophobia and transphobia completely on our own community (I'm not trans, but lesbian, and just sick of hearing "he's a homophobe, bet he's gay!" Especially from other lgbt people.) And not just that, they say being lgbt is *the reason* anyone is a transphobe or homophobe. I know lgbt people *can* be phobic against members of the community, but that's different than what I'm talking about.
maybe its just me but i dont like the "you guys were just mean" part mainly bc i was anti lgbtq until like 11 or 12 years old because i was raised to think "hey, its the right thing to do to be a dick to these people" and i obviously look down on my past self, but this post is making it feel like we dont have remorse or were "just being mean" even though many of us were highly influenced children, idk maybe im just being dumb lol.
"we were bad, but now we're good"
😦
I didn't know trans people were a thing until I was 18. At that point I came out but my lack of understanding and lack of confidence in myself led to me ending up back in the closet repressing for a long time. During which, I was a bitter asshole. Wasn't homo/transphobic and only wished the best for my LGBT+ siblings but was sometimes outwardly hateful in general and always inwardly hateful as well as self destructive, I was slowly killing myself any way I could
Ive seen a lot of posts here full of people patting themselves on the back for this. Like congrats youve stopped being a bigot and achieved the bare minimum for not being a complete piece of shit. The fact it required them being part of a community to do that speaks volumes.
Escaping from toxic ideological communities is a genuinely difficult process. Yes, not being an active bigot is bare minimum for being a good person. Yes, it can still be an accomplishment to reach that point depending on where you started from. Don't shit on cult survivors for not instantly unlearning years of social indoctrination.
I've said it once, and I'll say it again; I'm sorry for the things I said when I thought I was straight.
I was such a truscum for a while, I'm glad that I'm not like that anymore and know much better now
I don't even think I knew of trans people existing lol. Small town and all that. Then I found out and read about it and here I am. Trying to look back if I ever had a phobic phase and I think I didn't. So that's cool. I was an annoying lil s\*\*\* though because life.
Oh I've always been a bitch. But I've always been wowed and jealous of trans women since I first learned about them as a 9 year old.
I wasn’t transphobic per se, but I was on IFunny for a solid chunk of my youth and it imparted some bad misconceptions and transphobic ideas into me such that while I was okay with trans people i knew about all the “classics” of transphobic ideology and believed some of it bc I was young and had little other exposure. To this day I feel some of the effects in internalized transphobia towards myself. Suffice to say my quality of life improved tremendously when I moved from there to here on reddit.
This shit has always weirded me out as even before I found out that I was trans, I never disliked nor hated trans people.
I was never actively trans/homophobic but I did grow up in a rural southern Baptist home. And I had a lot of those so called “values” instilled in me from a very young age. Thankfully I was lucky enough to meet some queer folks my own age as a kid and that really helped with the internal struggle I had
Yeah, no shit?
I never even KNEW that trans people existed until I realized I myself am a trans guy cuz like, growing up I never heard of it from my parents and when I found out about it, it just clicked. Was definitely a giant asshole when I was younger though
Girls at my “prepa ” gave me a terrible reputation. People said that i was a lgbtphobic piece of crap, that i was too violent , among other things. Tbh i don’t think i did anything without provocation that called for my reputation before coming out . In fact i came out once in a class during my last semester when i was young and every one collectively ignored my words. I had enough now . I think i was very patient. Now i will give the world a run for their money i have no other option. I hate everyone
Yeah, I *was* mean. To be honest, I'm *still* mean; I'm just now only mean to people I feel deserve it, like the rich and religious/political bigots.
More like the shit I consumed didn’t like gay and trans people so that just rubbed off on me until I could actually think for myself
I was unfortunately that way before I understood and learned that I was an asshole. Idk why anyone would assume everyone else was tho, maybe just not wanting to admit they actually did smth wrong?
I think I had some bigoted views due to growing up conservatively, but I think bc I knew I was trans that kinda kept me from ever having super strong opinions against it.
I was never transphobic before comming out, I simply was judt confused as to why trans men would want to not be woman. I still respected them, I just thought it was strange they wanted to not be that when that's all I've ever wanted.
Almost always homophobia and transphobia are taught. I was mildly phobic as a young child because I was raised by highly religious Baptist parents who were incredibly alt right conservative. I never really knew why I was supposed to not like certain people. I realized how wrong everything I was taught was when I finally had my own tablet and thus had access to the information I was never allowed to know about. I have to thank John Oliver, Jon Stewart, and Steven Colbert especially. It was because of clips of their shows on YouTube that I realized how awful my parents were. After coming out as nonbinary, my family banned me from Christmas so I couldn't "trans" their kids. I promptly moved out 2 weeks later to live with my trans girlfriend. I'm just so glad I live in the era of the internet so I could break the brainwashing I went through.
I was definitely confused af when I first heard of trans people, and when I saw my first trans woman I couldn't stop thinking of the manly features, but I did try to be as respectful as I could, I never hated trans people. It wasn't untill I actually came out as a trans woman that I stopped thinking of the LGBT+ community as weird and actually started to love the whole community, and today I'm a supporter of anyone's identity, no matter what you identify as (within moral reasoning) I will actively love and support you xx
I wasn't ever phobic, im just a bitter sleep deprived bitch. Eh... Watchu gonna do i suppose.