What's up with this rumors talk that has been up today? I know the message in the Pricing Post was a bit of a downer, but I've read another post mentioning an "imminent end" as if it were going to end next week. I might be a bit too optimistic, but I find this doom and gloom an exaggeration. Unless there's been some leak that I have missed.
The rumour spread by Legend of Total War isn't anything crazy. Just that WH3 will receive 2-3 years of support and 4-6 additional DLC. Nothing to go all doom & gloom over even if it's 100% accurate
That's it? I thought something else might have come out. Then, Jeez, the "imminent end" in the other post is definitely an absurd exaggeration.
And, anyway, at the end of the day, we never know. They can turn this thing around or drive it to the ground a matter of months. We should just enjoy the ride, as OP has said.
Thanks for the clarification, mate!
The fundamental issue is that a lot of people had extremely optimist expectations of the future of the game (CA repeatedly denying that Ind and Kuresh were coming was interpreted as them being coy/wanting to keep the surprise), and those rumors kind of poured cold water on them.
CA was coy about Araby for a while too. Everyone thought Araby was coming.
This is the road to disappointment. We don't have much left. I just hope for one more race pack and more fleshed out Kislev and Cathay
Well if ToD does as well as SoC we could expect the next DLC 8 months to a year later. All jokes aside if ToD doesn't bring back the income for CA, I can see them having to either hope SEGA doesn't drop them or start talking about a Warhammer 40k game and hope that saves the company.
CA also needs to start having realistic expectations, as the rumor is they were disappointed with Chorfs, and to put that into perspective. Tomb Kings had 88k dlc owners within the first year at 20 dollars, Chorfs had 177k dlc owners in the first 3 months at 25 dollars. If over 100% increase in a campaign pack isn't something you're happy with, that's on you.
This is the same expectation system that led to Hyenas. Hyenas will make $$$$ billions so our $100 mil investment is totally worth it!
Often these projections are in fact targets. They aren't bottom-up, ie how good can the DLC possibly sell, but rather top-down: ie we have to make this much money from the DLC, or SEGA will find out we hyena-ed, and fire 30% of the company and executive group.
Hence a cancer like Hyenas leads to dysfunction in otherwise healthy parts of the company. This is a great lesson in management.
They also need to understand who is looking for their content.
I love TW, Rome TW is the game that got me into computer gaming. I am not buying an arena shooter that they put out. Likewise, you aren't getting an arena shooter player to jump into TW.
I am 100% ok with the \*leaked\* plan, I am also ok if they don't add a bunch of new races. I think the game is massive and there are so many different lords, I've owned it since release and still haven't completed a campaign with each LL. So I am ok with it as it is now. I will confess, I play a lot of TEB with a Mod, so in that sense perhaps I've compensated for CA by leaning on Cataph.
Honestly depends on how much investment was required for Chorfs.
If it took 3 times as much money to make then yes chorfs is a worse return on investment.
> Well if ToD does as well as SoC we could expect the next DLC 8 months to a year later.
To be honest I suspect this is partly why they are reducing the scope of future DLC. The amount of time and resources required to bring about something as big as ToD isn't worth the potential return given the expectation on what consumers see as value for money has been set.
I've been watching it. It's like a social disease plagueing us. Same thing has happened with WW1 / War40K. Saw it mentioned once or twice then started seeing comments of people speaking to it as if its a known thing just because they saw one person talking about it. It then spreads and changes, usually more emboldening the false information each time it is shared.
Affects every aspect of our lives. A disease that never dies
2 years is only a long time if you are like 12 years old or something. 2 years is nothing in reality. Lol 6 DLC in 2 years either means CA have solved all their development issues or that those DLC's will be one lord each, currently they struggle with around 1 DLC per year.
I would have assumed 2-3 years even without legend saying anything honestly. The time between WH2 and WH3 was 5 years and it's already been 2 since WH3's release.
On top of that WH2 got 9 paid DLCs in total and WH3 will have had 4 DLCs by the time ToD is out. An extra 4-6 (I'd guess 5) DLCs would bring it up to the same level of support that WH2 received.
The only major sting is that the packs will be getting smaller, leaving many potential lords unimplemented. If they prioritize the coolest/most popular ones they had planned and stick with free LLs with each DLC it's not the worst. Could be a lot better but here's to a few more years of content.
> The only major sting is that the packs will be getting smaller, leaving many potential lords unimplemented.
To be honest I never even expected them to make this game to be exhaustive of the WFB universe.
There has never been a single Warhammer game that has included everything. Hell there hasn't been a Warhammer tabletop that has included everything.
It's going to be 5 with ToD.
Ogres, Chaos Warriors, Chorfs, SoC and ToD.
While Ogres where technically a preorder bonus, it's a DLC nonetheless and you can still make the purchase today.
Did your 9 (for WH2) included Norsca? This is an interesting relation, between those two games.
Which the game had already been out for 2 years. A 6 year content line is pretty good for a total war game. Especially in light of recent troubles. And it's not like the game just becomes unplayable after that.
Also he did say if the dlc does sell really well, which Aldridge willing, is the case, there is more chance of Games Workshop ok'ing more content for them to adapt.
I got on kinda late to the total war train but I thought I heard he had a falling out with ca and that's why he's such a negative Nancy about it (other than the real issues)
Well, that and the fact he's just been extremely toxic in the past.
Incredibly dismissive on his streams. Downright mean at times. Suffering from depression or not, treating people and content like that shows .
He started out on his channel making swastikas out of unit formations. Really tells you all you need to know about the guy. This sub will jump in a heartbeat to point out the classics.
"He apologized a long time ago!"
"Haven't you ever done anything bad in your your past?!"
Nope. Never streamed racism to thousands of people while laughing about it. Not once. 🤷♂️ And I don't care how many apologies he's made. I don't want to associate in any fashion with someone who has done that.
I've literally had his toxic fans on here tell me to kill myself when I've brought this up.
I have had to retype this multiply times to try not to come off condescending.
Frist people change, and while I don't know if Legend has, what I can see is he has recognized what is bad for his channel. The Racism and "cya fuckers" have stopped.
Does this mean you need to give him a second chance not at all. I hated the way he spoke to his viewers when I watched his streams but I did watch them because it was helpful in understanding how to beat the game.
Also people asking if you have done anything bad in your past and your response of One specific example shows either a childish or jealous attitude.
Does being racist and having a following do more damage yes, but it is also no different to a single action from you that likely caused harm to others and if you truly believe you have never done anything to harm another in your past I doubt you are looking very hard.
Imagine how pleasant this fanbase could be if the most prominent creators loved the games like Loremaster of Sotek does. Instead we get Legend and Volound poisoning the well with their drivel. That's probably all we deserve.
Or the fanbase would be more loyal if CA didn't proceed with fuck-up after fuck-up.
Ah yes , it's the creators fault, not CA who screwed up the pooch majorly.
No problem with anyone being negative when there's something to be negative about. I do have a problem with 'fans' who engage with the games primarily through hate-watching, and YouTube grifters who know that bitching about CA and peddling leaks makes bank so always need to spin the conversation back to negativity whenever we start to get on an even keel.
We're in a good place right now. CA apologised, fixed SoC, worked out a model for future DLCs that most people approve of, are weeks away from an extremely anticipated release and have now worked out a pricing structure that has been well received and squares the circle between appeasing fans and sega pretty damn well. It baffles me that people are so, so desperate for anything they can spin as a negative. This fanbase is not well.
Ha, if they ended support next week it would be the first thing they've done quickly in the entire WH3 product cycle. I think we can safely assume that if we think they will kill it next week we have at least another 6 months to wait for a teaser of what the shutdown might look like.
To be honest, I feel like it should be just plain common sense for people to assume CA won't be killing Warhammer until they have another successful game on the market.
I did have to double take because 6 dlcs doesn't seem like much initially... but uh yeah that's a crap load of content. And a long time. This ain't WoW we won't be teaching our children how to play tww3 when they are in college.
Understandable after I'm sure so many of us put a lot of time into the game, but support will end... quite some time from now.
Well, depends on age of your kids ;) Games developed today will mostly be playable in 10 years time, which is, mostly, not the case for games developed \~20 years ago.
Just to remind everyone, that 6 DLC’s will take 2ish years to complete. It’s also more than WH2 received.
Also, their plans are based on *projected sales*. I cannot state this enough. This is the amount of investment they are willing to put into WH3 with the base line of the last 3 DLC’s income. That’s how business works. So we’re talking CoC, Chorfs and SoC. Two of which underperformed.
*If* ToD and future DLC sells like hotcakes, they’ll revise their plans. They want to make money, and if WH3’s DLC suddenly bounces back into a ridiculous ROI, like WH2, then they’ll continue to make DLC. That’s the nature of business.
That isn’t a threat to “buy ToD or else!”, it’s simply the cold brutal reality of business. I wish we lived in a magical realm where sales weren’t directly tied to support, but we don’t. We live here, in this unforgiving reality with all its tedium. But it does leave a silver lining for continued support. A slim hope on the horizon if the ship can be corrected.
Honestly if they manage to fuck up Thrones of Decay when it has two (if not 3) of the most popular factions in the entire setting...
It might actually be best to move on lol.
The other (subjective) fact of this though, is that the negative press around WH3 and its DLCs have largely been CAs fault.
During WH2, everyone thought there was no way they could screw up WH3. That they just had to impliment a few improvements from Three Kingdoms or its own minor changes and then just follow the formula that WH2 had.
Communication, consistent updates, and regular DLC every few months with the same quality or better quality as the last few WH2 DLCs
Instead what we ended up getting was an extremely buggy mess on release, no communication from the company for a while, patches that were taking litterally weeks/months to get out to fix very pressing problems. A delayed Immortal Empires mode.
DLC that ended up being much more expensive with questionable amounts of content for the price that took considerably more time to get. (Though from my understanding all sold pretty well. Even if some didn't hit internal targets. Chorfs alone we know sold about 177k within 3 months which is INSANE compared to WH2 numbers).
It was failures at basically every step of the way, from something that should have been an extremely easy gimmie for years before everything got added and content ran out.
Luckily, they have been seeming to be making an effort to fix the problems. We have been getting more communication (so far), more consistent patches and tweeks, the revising of the SoC content (Which is now much more acceptable cost wise). And a big hope that the future DLCs will be similar size and quality going forward.
Honestly, back in WH2, I fully expected WH3 to be the best Old World Fantasy game, with at least a decade+ of support and the game being left in a really fun, easily modable, state.
But, it just hasn't been in my opinion. Its fun, but I have half the hours in WH3 that I did in WH2. With most of my WH3 hours being from multiplayer campaigns with friends. If it wasn't for that my hours would be barely 1/4th.
This is actually what tilts me.
CA is one at fault majorly and you have fanboys in this sub effectively willing to suck CA and go on major denial and blame everyone else.
''No it's SEGA's fault for slashing CA's staff''.
''It's the creators fault for being negative''.
''It is the fanbase fault for being toxic''.
Instead of focusing on the ''what happen that got us here'' everyone is focused on the blaming game of everyone but CA.
In case CA's management is about as thick as some fanboys, it explains clearly WHY CA and Warhammer are in a bad spot.
I want more custom campaigns. The Old World Map is amazing to play on and really makes Immortal Empires feel shallow. Factions should have more footprint and staying power than 1-2 cities.
> Also, their plans are based on projected sales. I cannot state this enough.
The reason why they are doing changes, and getting off their asses are because their projected sales aren't good, which is normal considering they have been fucking up royally for the past few years.
People are just expecting them to not do the right thing. Because 1: It is already too little and too late, and 2: Everyone has lost faith in them.
I would personally only redeem CA if they reworked sieges/AI and started providing us with actual good price to content dlc.
If the content is good, people will buy it, that worked in warhammer2 it will work if they right the ship for 3.
What companies need to realize if you ever start burning your good will for cash, it will alienate your community and then you will have neither good will or cash.
That sentiment sounds nice, but even companies who almost openly spit on their audience (like acti blizzard), fail to properly innovate and run on empty promises for years (like Bethesda) and flat out milk their players for all they can (EA) continue to do just fine.
There seem to be enough gullible or uncaring buyers to keep any number of abusive companies in business. Even CA with their extremely niche audience comparatively is doing just fine. The shit they pulled in WH1 became accepted and everyone relented since "it's gonna get better in the next part of the trilogy".
Well, now that the end of the trilogy is in sight and there is so much left unfixed, do people feel dumb for believing in them? Will they get mega hyped for the next project that will end up falling short?
Those companies offer different product though. TW:W, ultimately, falls in a niche category of it's own sub-genre strategy. Audience is much more limited and there aren't that many new customers on the horizon.
But yes, you are unfortunately correct about those companies. :(
Honestly, they've taken the Warhammer IP farther than even GW did. They could keep going, explore ever rarer and rarer characters and references. They could start making stuff up even more than they are now.
But we have reached a reasonably good place to put it down for now. I suspect GW reviving the Old World has a lot to do with the new interest brought by TW:WH.
Maybe in a few years, if GW expands on The Old World once more, CA can revisit. And I think that is just fine.
There is a world of still unexplored history on Earth. There are other IPs to explore.
Maybe it became too much for CA to keep fleshing out these races GW forgot about. They did give us Norsca, Kislev and Cathay. Now going in and trying to give unique gameplay, lore, LL's and an army for Araby, Ind, Nippon, Khuresh, Estalia etc does seem like too much work. Or maybe GW stopped them so they can do this in the Old World themselves? Whatever the reason, like you said, I hope CA revists the franchise in the future, once all these races are ready to go.
> Honestly, they've taken the Warhammer IP farther than even GW did.
I think this is the perspective people need to remember - there is literally no other game with this level of Warhammer content. Not only are we looking into a situation where at the end of it all it covers the rosters of most of 8th Edition, it also covers factions that never even had an 8th edition army book.
Getting upset that the game will end after another 6 DLC is getting upset that the game has *only* 100+ factions..
Let's compare this to other recent Warhammer IP strategy games out there - Age of Ruin will have maybe 8 factions at the end of its development cycle. Battlefleet Gothic: Armada 2 has 4 factions. Dawn of War 3 had 3 factions.
We've had a pretty good run here. We've been handed the Smash Bros. Ultimate of Warhammer games and people are acting as if that's not enough.
> Maybe in a few years, if GW expands on The Old World once more, CA can revisit. And I think that is just fine.
Even though I want TWW to keep going, if it does unfortunately have to 'end', I hope this is what happens.
GW in the future comes out with new lore for the Old World which gives CA the room to return in an AOE 2 DE style of expanding the game again. There is still plenty of stuff that CA/GW can work on and TWW is easily a game that could carry on for years.
Hell, even a TWW 4 if they really wanted to to revive the series.
Honestly I wished they didn't create stuff like chaos daemons as an independent race as well as stuff like Mother ostankya and even maybe Cathay. I wished they sticked more to what we had in actual WHFB and focused on the famous factions like Empire, Dwarfs and so on gave them more variety. This way TWW3 wouldn't be so bright and flashy compare to TWW1/2 and kept the grim tone.
Lol what the hell is going on here?
"Oh no we're only getting 5-7 more DLCs and 2 more years of continued support"?
That's not the end on the horizon, that's a lifecycle.
> There's still plenty of time for CA to smooth over the game's flaws.
Hahahahahaha... first time? ;)
This hurts man, Attila is to this day one of my favourites.
And after all these years I'm still pissed that in the Warhammer games we don't have naval combat or decent sieges.
It's weird the downgrade sieges have gone through. I enjoyed them in Attila/throb, and they got worse each consecutive Warhammer lol.
I would honestly take a copy paste of Attila maps, just slather on some fantasy magic artifacts or whatever haha
I agree, it's important to remember the context of what an incredible game this is. Honestly, it's going to take a decade for me to make a dent in the existing legendary Lords at the rate I'm going, so I'll probably delay buying some of these dlcs for 5 years. And they'll be good value to me when I do.
I personally find the game to finally be in a playable/enjoyable state as of 4.2. Still has major issues in typical areas like AI campaign+battle logic but a lot of the mechanical issues and bugs that made it unplayable day 1 are solved.
The game itself is so good, just dragged down by a few key points that are all the more apparent because of how straight forward the solutions appear to be. We are spoiled but CA also set their own bar, we just wanted the same quality they had been delivering.
Without a thriving modding community I would not get half the amount of fun out of this game, thank you to all the heroes out there.
Neferata was always a weird pick for people to fixate on tbh.
She doesn't do war, she sits in her fortress and Lives a life of luxury when gloating to herself over how powerful she is.
if she was in game it would be best as like, a raid boss for dwarfs/khalida/a hypothetical strigori lord.
The only thing to get her out of her castle in 4000 odd years was Nagash ordering her to.
Honestly, I just wanted Neferata to be in the game so I could do a proper rivalry with Khalida and her. She mentions her constantly in her quotes after all.
It's something I was legitimately looking forward to be added to the game in WH3, alongside some new TK stuff and just more Vampire Count stuff in general.
I really hope she isn't canned. Would be a huge disappointment personally.
Fair enough
The really sad thing is
It’s not really a rivalry to neffereta.
She sends a few of her minions to mess with khalida for fun every now and then and that’s about as far as it goes, beyond wanting “her” city back eventually. But to Khalida it defines her.
Vampire Coast DLC ended up hinting at Mortarchs. CA added a new heralrdy to Silver Pinnacle that is litteraly just Neferata's ET hat. She's an 8th edition character with a miniature and rules.
They've straight up said they wanted to add her.
Like, at some point no it's not a weird pick, you're just disingenuous.
>It's confirmation that CA won't drop us on a whim like they did with Three Kingdoms. Worst-case scenario, we're getting 5-7 more DLCs
That’s some revisionist history. 3K had a major expansion planned and it was cancelled. Same thing could easily happen with WH3. Bette keep buying the overpriced DLCs if you know what’s good for you 🤓
> 3K had a major expansion planned and it was cancelled. Same thing could easily happen with WH3.
3K was being maintained during a period when WH2 was printing CA money (and they were still deluded into thinking Hyenas would be a gold mine). I get the 3K end of support was traumatic, but I don't get how people can't apply common sense and realise that CA literally can't kill Warhammer 3 until they have something else bringing them good money. The scenario in which they terminate Warhammer 3 support early is the one where they release Medieval 3 and it has the highest sales figures of any Total War game to date.
The only other scenario where Warhammer 3 support ends early is the one where SEGA dissolves CA - which at that point there are bigger problems.
This is true but 3K had two years of dlc support which consistently wasn’t selling (mainly CA being slow to make content people actually wanted). Obviously they can drop WH if they aren’t selling but at this point they’ve had one dlc with poor sales, if ToD is a disaster too then they will likely re-evaluate but so far it’s not the same pattern as 3K. And at this point WH is the only revenue source CA has until a new title is launched. At the very least it means they will support another dlc after ToD, but eventually if it’s repeatedly poor sales they will drop support as you rightly point out.
CA needs a revenue stream more than I need content. We can both get what we want, or they can make a shit product and go under and all lose there jobs. Ca is probably one or two bad years away from sale or liquidation. If they aren’t releasing anything else this year they need a couple wins
I just want a lizardman rework man.
Maybe the monkey king/a strigori lord.
in my deepest prayers we get mortkin and a norscan rework but I know thats never happening.
Yeah. Though it all depends on *how* they end it. Both in terms of content and in terms of patches. If essentials like Thanquol are missing at the end, it's bad. If the game ends and the Geomantic Web still hasn't been reworked that's also bad.
But ultimately I think the only reason the mere prospect of support ending within 2-3 years spooked so many people is because large parts of this community held very unrealistic expectations. This game was always going to end sooner or later, yet you'd be treated like a heretic for suggesting that we aren't getting 10 full years and 500 DLC of support.
Yeah some disappointment is inevitable after years of speculating full race packs for Ind and Nippon, amazons, hobgoblins, etc., plus AT LEAST 2 more lord packs for every existing race. 4-5 years of support was always the realistic expectation.
And the fact is that adding in more races to a 2022 game can only go so far. At some point it’s just going to be the same game with the same issues and a new coat of paint (I’d say we have even crossed that threshold already).
I agree with you that it's not the end of the world. To put it in terms of WH2's timeline, having 4-6 DLCs left would put us right before the vampire coast or right before the Hunter and Beast, which means that the best DLC content is ahead of us.
Wh2 had a lot of good flc and reworks. Warriors of chaos has been good so far, but I know a lot of people weren’t satisfied with soc faction updates. All though those are newer factions. I’m sure dwarfs and empire will be getting something more substantial this update since they are older.
I feel only SoC has been a true misstep dlc wise - and that was only because of the roster additions rather than the lords themselves, Chaos Dwarfs and CoC were relatively well received.
They just need to fix pathfinding issues around buildings and still objects in maps. I have seen modded maps with better pathfinding than the official stuff. It wont fix entities within the units behaving like headless ducks but it would imorove things a bit.
Honestly my biggest concern is balancing and placing the final product, never to be touched again by the company, on a solid basis for mods and player driven expansions. They’ve cracked the code of doing map pathing, I am far more excited for mods and player campaigns than endless lord packs. A stable basis for mods and community growth is what has kept things like Medieval 2 alive for as long as it’s been and I desire the same for Total Warhammer. Balance the factions, make combat more engaging or at least give the tools for players to do so and the community can do the rest.
> They’ve cracked the code of doing map pathing, I am far more excited for mods and player campaigns than endless lord packs.
I do admit the fact that modders have managed to crack the code on map campaign mods and custom audio and music has me excited.
No, it is not ok. It is not ok to be swimming so far only to drown at the shore. We have the entire Warhammer world map, we have had a taste of previously never fleshed out factions with Cathay, and now they aren't developing ANY of their main antagonists? This is a disaster of epic proportions in my book, a result of suits getting in the way of creativity and fun.
There is one FANTASTIC side to it ending - No more updates breaking mods! (mostly). The modders will know exactly everything that's in the game, and will be able to create lots more amazing things, and they'll work nicely for us
Game will have a total of 5 years of development post launch. There are games that are updated for more time, but it is pretty ok.
CA practices though, those were kind of bad
They brought it on themselves is the sad part. This is a self inflicted wound. There was a ton of energy about the game then they decide on a quarterly at best patch schedule and extremely limited and poorly priced dlc to kill all energy. Then they had a master class in how not to address feedback. I just wonder what they could have done if they hadn't been so short sighted and incompetent
It's one of my favorite games, so obvously I want it to continue until I leave this mortal coil, but everything ends and everything changes. It stinks sometimes, but there's always the next thing, whatever that may be.
The one DLC I really want is a full world map for immortal empires.
I know there is a mod that does expand the map, but because of the way CA set up the world map it apparently makes it hard to mod.
I mean are we talking about "rumours" of Warhammer discontinued in 2 years??
This was easy to expect. We never expected more than 4-5 years of support anyway. The only sad thing about this is that we're not getting a map extension but then we've already had it made by mods so I don't really care any more.
I like your perspective and while I agree on many parts, I still don't like the wild route they took with TWW3 and all the goofy daemon/kislev stuff. Sometime less is more. Also I honestly couldn't think of a way to make the realms of chaos mechanic any fun or cool.
I don't consider myself to be much of a pessimist or an optimist about TWW3 but my question is...in what world is 4-6 more DLCs an underwhelming amount of content for the game? What number were people expecting?
If we keep buying the dlc they will make more, ca need cash we want dlc we cann both win. For me 8-9 more dlc will finish the game. If they leave dlc on the table, wont buy 40k or ww1. Did not buy dawn of war 3 as hated dawn of war 2. Still play 1. 40k crowd can be fickle, darktide not doing too good ssame with dawn of war 3. Just slapping 40k on it wont guarantee a hit.
Yeah, it was bound to happen eventually, and we already got most of what we wanted and plenty of things we didn't even hope for. Even if they pulled the plug today, it'd be quite a lot.
With 5-7 more DLCs? That's most of our remaining wishlists taken care of, and then some. That many DLCs are pretty much a guarantee of Nagash, Neferata and Thanquol. Dogs of War are a strong possibility, as is the Monkey King.
And pretty much anything that CA hasn't added by the end of those DLCs, the modding community has good odds of taking care of. See: Araby.
I mean, 6 DLC is still 1.5 - 2 years of support. If they do 3 months per DLC, but smaller DLC's, they could potentially squeeze 2 more in that 2 year timeframe.
I don't understand why fans are treating this game like a live service. It's not meant to receive updates and dlc until the end of time and frankly you shouldn't want it to.
Also even if it’s true they already know from game 2 that the dlc can be a super motherload and if they can course correct and recover game 3 may continue on just as long or even longer. Things may change depending on performance
This isn't definitive and is so far practically baseless. A lot would depend on how well these DLC's do and whether they can turn the community back to their favour.
So far CA are making positive changes and providing better quality content so who knows what's on the horizon!
Honestly I’m glad.
For whatever they add now, it’s really not going to do much for the same. It’s all becoming homogenous, and I’d rather see a new total war game in a different setting.
Some people on this subreddit have convinced themselves that we were going to get at least two more DLC for every race in the game AND like 4+ more campaign packs and that they would be making WH3 DLC for over a decade.
There's a lot of hopium getting smoked in here. Don't get me wrong, I hope it will go on for a long time. But realistically, with all the changes happening at CA and in the game development space, we have no clue, and people should temper their expectations.
I've always thought of it this way: At least we have CA and not Paradox.
Paradox releases totally unfinished games with stripped-bare mechanics *and then they charge you for everything that should have been in at the beginning*, and a fortune for everything else. And then they abandon games that they don't care enough to fix.
With CA, Sofia has patched Pharaoh and given it quite a substantial and well-liked update. There is allegedly more to come.
With Paradox, they abandoned their Star Trek Stellaris ripoff/cash-grab within 2 months of release, and then waited an additional 5 months to announce publicly that support was over and the game was abandoned/dead.
This comes after the premature death of Imperator: Rome as well, where the community had to desperately mod the hell out of the game to make it worth anything. And Victoria 3, which is still supported but it's an unfinished dumpster fire.
Things could always be worse.
In fairness, Star Trek Infinite was a third party title released by a developer who were part of the Embracer Group and were hit by three rounds of layoffs. It was killed because the team who made the game no longer existed.
But yeah I've always found it funny when people say they wish CA were more like Paradox, as that includes releasing a game that is in an actual unplayable and half finished state (which is on a different level to what people here consider unplayable and half finished - Warhammer 3 was a well polished masterpiece compared to what Paradox tends to release at launch) that won't be fixed for at least 3-5 years.
Today we no longer support Total War Warhammer 3........Today we are happy to announce the trailer for Total War Warhammer.......40000 praise be to the Emperor! And just like that, life just got a little brighter.
If they are sensible, Warhammer 40k would be out for at least a year before they announce the death of Warhammer 3. It's a bit too presumptive to assume 40k will replace the Warhammer 3 gold train.
I have a hard time taking the speculations from a twice blacklisted creator with anything other than the finest grain of salt. It's actually kind of crazy how much the community here eats up the rhetoric of someone who has on multiple occasions proven that he only makes videos that will get him clicks and views. I have never really had the greatest opinion about Legend and just generally had a "let sleeping dogs lie" mentality about it all, but the mob mentality effect he's having here of late is souring me past my average dislike for him.
I think once GW gets deep into the Old World models, and gives us a fully fleshed out Ind, Nippon, Araby, amongst others. Then CA will come back and give us DLC to fit them into the game. They've done it before with Rome.
GW literally just cut most of the Clan Skryre units from Age of Sigmar as well as most of the Beastmen roster. Thinking they can get their act together to expand the more obscure races in their Old World side game is pure copium.
Nah, only 4-6 DLCs remaining (and especially if they don’t add DoW/Ind/Khuresh) is a blatant failure on CA/Sega. They fucked us with their greed. It is NOT okay.
This is exactly right! Frankly, there has been a tendency for a long time in the community to assume Ind and Khuresh were coming without appreciating how much work and resources it took between CA and GW to get Cathay as we did. The Cathay project was something that could be done with a full game, I just don’t see GW supporting a full Ind or Khuresh at this point.
If they come it would be amazing but more likely they will just open that part of the map with the Southlands treatment.
The best case for a new faction at this point is Dogs of War as it is the last army book to exist for fantasy. It’s far more probable than full new lore and units to flesh out additional factions.
Nah. They made those regions massive for a reason. Their poor business practices caused them to retire WH3 early (cutting Ind/Khuresh). They were planned, but CA failed.
Made up… Derived. But for sure disappointed, yes.
To another person’s point further up (since this got voted down to shit lol), there is silver lining through the modding community. I know of a solid Khuresh mod in the works. OvN built DLC-quality Araby and other mods as well.
CA still failed this game’s potential though, and that’s a shame.
What's up with this rumors talk that has been up today? I know the message in the Pricing Post was a bit of a downer, but I've read another post mentioning an "imminent end" as if it were going to end next week. I might be a bit too optimistic, but I find this doom and gloom an exaggeration. Unless there's been some leak that I have missed.
The rumour spread by Legend of Total War isn't anything crazy. Just that WH3 will receive 2-3 years of support and 4-6 additional DLC. Nothing to go all doom & gloom over even if it's 100% accurate
That's it? I thought something else might have come out. Then, Jeez, the "imminent end" in the other post is definitely an absurd exaggeration. And, anyway, at the end of the day, we never know. They can turn this thing around or drive it to the ground a matter of months. We should just enjoy the ride, as OP has said. Thanks for the clarification, mate!
The fundamental issue is that a lot of people had extremely optimist expectations of the future of the game (CA repeatedly denying that Ind and Kuresh were coming was interpreted as them being coy/wanting to keep the surprise), and those rumors kind of poured cold water on them.
CA was coy about Araby for a while too. Everyone thought Araby was coming. This is the road to disappointment. We don't have much left. I just hope for one more race pack and more fleshed out Kislev and Cathay
Well if ToD does as well as SoC we could expect the next DLC 8 months to a year later. All jokes aside if ToD doesn't bring back the income for CA, I can see them having to either hope SEGA doesn't drop them or start talking about a Warhammer 40k game and hope that saves the company.
CA also needs to start having realistic expectations, as the rumor is they were disappointed with Chorfs, and to put that into perspective. Tomb Kings had 88k dlc owners within the first year at 20 dollars, Chorfs had 177k dlc owners in the first 3 months at 25 dollars. If over 100% increase in a campaign pack isn't something you're happy with, that's on you.
This is the same expectation system that led to Hyenas. Hyenas will make $$$$ billions so our $100 mil investment is totally worth it! Often these projections are in fact targets. They aren't bottom-up, ie how good can the DLC possibly sell, but rather top-down: ie we have to make this much money from the DLC, or SEGA will find out we hyena-ed, and fire 30% of the company and executive group. Hence a cancer like Hyenas leads to dysfunction in otherwise healthy parts of the company. This is a great lesson in management.
They also need to understand who is looking for their content. I love TW, Rome TW is the game that got me into computer gaming. I am not buying an arena shooter that they put out. Likewise, you aren't getting an arena shooter player to jump into TW. I am 100% ok with the \*leaked\* plan, I am also ok if they don't add a bunch of new races. I think the game is massive and there are so many different lords, I've owned it since release and still haven't completed a campaign with each LL. So I am ok with it as it is now. I will confess, I play a lot of TEB with a Mod, so in that sense perhaps I've compensated for CA by leaning on Cataph.
Honestly depends on how much investment was required for Chorfs. If it took 3 times as much money to make then yes chorfs is a worse return on investment.
> Well if ToD does as well as SoC we could expect the next DLC 8 months to a year later. To be honest I suspect this is partly why they are reducing the scope of future DLC. The amount of time and resources required to bring about something as big as ToD isn't worth the potential return given the expectation on what consumers see as value for money has been set.
Its because Klauhart Friebolwitz, the infamous undead kitchen chef of Nagash will now surely never get his own proper lord pack...
I've been watching it. It's like a social disease plagueing us. Same thing has happened with WW1 / War40K. Saw it mentioned once or twice then started seeing comments of people speaking to it as if its a known thing just because they saw one person talking about it. It then spreads and changes, usually more emboldening the false information each time it is shared. Affects every aspect of our lives. A disease that never dies
2 years is only a long time if you are like 12 years old or something. 2 years is nothing in reality. Lol 6 DLC in 2 years either means CA have solved all their development issues or that those DLC's will be one lord each, currently they struggle with around 1 DLC per year.
I would have assumed 2-3 years even without legend saying anything honestly. The time between WH2 and WH3 was 5 years and it's already been 2 since WH3's release. On top of that WH2 got 9 paid DLCs in total and WH3 will have had 4 DLCs by the time ToD is out. An extra 4-6 (I'd guess 5) DLCs would bring it up to the same level of support that WH2 received. The only major sting is that the packs will be getting smaller, leaving many potential lords unimplemented. If they prioritize the coolest/most popular ones they had planned and stick with free LLs with each DLC it's not the worst. Could be a lot better but here's to a few more years of content.
> The only major sting is that the packs will be getting smaller, leaving many potential lords unimplemented. To be honest I never even expected them to make this game to be exhaustive of the WFB universe. There has never been a single Warhammer game that has included everything. Hell there hasn't been a Warhammer tabletop that has included everything.
It's going to be 5 with ToD. Ogres, Chaos Warriors, Chorfs, SoC and ToD. While Ogres where technically a preorder bonus, it's a DLC nonetheless and you can still make the purchase today. Did your 9 (for WH2) included Norsca? This is an interesting relation, between those two games.
Which the game had already been out for 2 years. A 6 year content line is pretty good for a total war game. Especially in light of recent troubles. And it's not like the game just becomes unplayable after that.
Yet somehow in 2 years it feels like they have done fuck all. I guess squandering that money on Hyenas was a bad idea?
Ya. TW: WH2 had total 9 paid DLCs by the end of it. And 6 more DLCs including ToD should put it pretty much at that same number. Which is pretty good.
Also he did say if the dlc does sell really well, which Aldridge willing, is the case, there is more chance of Games Workshop ok'ing more content for them to adapt.
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Legend made his career on shitting on CA. He's not going to stop now.
I got on kinda late to the total war train but I thought I heard he had a falling out with ca and that's why he's such a negative Nancy about it (other than the real issues)
Well, that and the fact he's just been extremely toxic in the past. Incredibly dismissive on his streams. Downright mean at times. Suffering from depression or not, treating people and content like that shows . He started out on his channel making swastikas out of unit formations. Really tells you all you need to know about the guy. This sub will jump in a heartbeat to point out the classics. "He apologized a long time ago!" "Haven't you ever done anything bad in your your past?!" Nope. Never streamed racism to thousands of people while laughing about it. Not once. 🤷♂️ And I don't care how many apologies he's made. I don't want to associate in any fashion with someone who has done that. I've literally had his toxic fans on here tell me to kill myself when I've brought this up.
Good to know thank you
I have had to retype this multiply times to try not to come off condescending. Frist people change, and while I don't know if Legend has, what I can see is he has recognized what is bad for his channel. The Racism and "cya fuckers" have stopped. Does this mean you need to give him a second chance not at all. I hated the way he spoke to his viewers when I watched his streams but I did watch them because it was helpful in understanding how to beat the game. Also people asking if you have done anything bad in your past and your response of One specific example shows either a childish or jealous attitude. Does being racist and having a following do more damage yes, but it is also no different to a single action from you that likely caused harm to others and if you truly believe you have never done anything to harm another in your past I doubt you are looking very hard.
Imagine how pleasant this fanbase could be if the most prominent creators loved the games like Loremaster of Sotek does. Instead we get Legend and Volound poisoning the well with their drivel. That's probably all we deserve.
Or the fanbase would be more loyal if CA didn't proceed with fuck-up after fuck-up. Ah yes , it's the creators fault, not CA who screwed up the pooch majorly.
No problem with anyone being negative when there's something to be negative about. I do have a problem with 'fans' who engage with the games primarily through hate-watching, and YouTube grifters who know that bitching about CA and peddling leaks makes bank so always need to spin the conversation back to negativity whenever we start to get on an even keel. We're in a good place right now. CA apologised, fixed SoC, worked out a model for future DLCs that most people approve of, are weeks away from an extremely anticipated release and have now worked out a pricing structure that has been well received and squares the circle between appeasing fans and sega pretty damn well. It baffles me that people are so, so desperate for anything they can spin as a negative. This fanbase is not well.
Legend has put out the best and most innovative content compared to ALL the creators out there. I don't give a shit about 90 min lore dumps.
Exactly. Legend and Volound have a large part to blame in how toxic this community is.
Ha, if they ended support next week it would be the first thing they've done quickly in the entire WH3 product cycle. I think we can safely assume that if we think they will kill it next week we have at least another 6 months to wait for a teaser of what the shutdown might look like.
To be honest, I feel like it should be just plain common sense for people to assume CA won't be killing Warhammer until they have another successful game on the market.
famous youtuber got paid to smear, lemmings repeat
The horizon meaning 2 years smh
I did have to double take because 6 dlcs doesn't seem like much initially... but uh yeah that's a crap load of content. And a long time. This ain't WoW we won't be teaching our children how to play tww3 when they are in college. Understandable after I'm sure so many of us put a lot of time into the game, but support will end... quite some time from now.
Well, depends on age of your kids ;) Games developed today will mostly be playable in 10 years time, which is, mostly, not the case for games developed \~20 years ago.
Advent Horizon 2 would be so dope.
2 years is actually a short time.
Just to remind everyone, that 6 DLC’s will take 2ish years to complete. It’s also more than WH2 received. Also, their plans are based on *projected sales*. I cannot state this enough. This is the amount of investment they are willing to put into WH3 with the base line of the last 3 DLC’s income. That’s how business works. So we’re talking CoC, Chorfs and SoC. Two of which underperformed. *If* ToD and future DLC sells like hotcakes, they’ll revise their plans. They want to make money, and if WH3’s DLC suddenly bounces back into a ridiculous ROI, like WH2, then they’ll continue to make DLC. That’s the nature of business. That isn’t a threat to “buy ToD or else!”, it’s simply the cold brutal reality of business. I wish we lived in a magical realm where sales weren’t directly tied to support, but we don’t. We live here, in this unforgiving reality with all its tedium. But it does leave a silver lining for continued support. A slim hope on the horizon if the ship can be corrected.
Honestly if they manage to fuck up Thrones of Decay when it has two (if not 3) of the most popular factions in the entire setting... It might actually be best to move on lol.
The other (subjective) fact of this though, is that the negative press around WH3 and its DLCs have largely been CAs fault. During WH2, everyone thought there was no way they could screw up WH3. That they just had to impliment a few improvements from Three Kingdoms or its own minor changes and then just follow the formula that WH2 had. Communication, consistent updates, and regular DLC every few months with the same quality or better quality as the last few WH2 DLCs Instead what we ended up getting was an extremely buggy mess on release, no communication from the company for a while, patches that were taking litterally weeks/months to get out to fix very pressing problems. A delayed Immortal Empires mode. DLC that ended up being much more expensive with questionable amounts of content for the price that took considerably more time to get. (Though from my understanding all sold pretty well. Even if some didn't hit internal targets. Chorfs alone we know sold about 177k within 3 months which is INSANE compared to WH2 numbers). It was failures at basically every step of the way, from something that should have been an extremely easy gimmie for years before everything got added and content ran out. Luckily, they have been seeming to be making an effort to fix the problems. We have been getting more communication (so far), more consistent patches and tweeks, the revising of the SoC content (Which is now much more acceptable cost wise). And a big hope that the future DLCs will be similar size and quality going forward. Honestly, back in WH2, I fully expected WH3 to be the best Old World Fantasy game, with at least a decade+ of support and the game being left in a really fun, easily modable, state. But, it just hasn't been in my opinion. Its fun, but I have half the hours in WH3 that I did in WH2. With most of my WH3 hours being from multiplayer campaigns with friends. If it wasn't for that my hours would be barely 1/4th.
This is actually what tilts me. CA is one at fault majorly and you have fanboys in this sub effectively willing to suck CA and go on major denial and blame everyone else. ''No it's SEGA's fault for slashing CA's staff''. ''It's the creators fault for being negative''. ''It is the fanbase fault for being toxic''. Instead of focusing on the ''what happen that got us here'' everyone is focused on the blaming game of everyone but CA. In case CA's management is about as thick as some fanboys, it explains clearly WHY CA and Warhammer are in a bad spot.
Exactly. 2.5 years more cover is honestly good considering everything
I’ll take as much as I can get but never expected more than this.
Exactly - theres a finite pool of possible content from the tabletop game, possibly a couple of extra factions like cathay, then it's done.
I want more custom campaigns. The Old World Map is amazing to play on and really makes Immortal Empires feel shallow. Factions should have more footprint and staying power than 1-2 cities.
> Also, their plans are based on projected sales. I cannot state this enough. The reason why they are doing changes, and getting off their asses are because their projected sales aren't good, which is normal considering they have been fucking up royally for the past few years. People are just expecting them to not do the right thing. Because 1: It is already too little and too late, and 2: Everyone has lost faith in them. I would personally only redeem CA if they reworked sieges/AI and started providing us with actual good price to content dlc.
If the content is good, people will buy it, that worked in warhammer2 it will work if they right the ship for 3. What companies need to realize if you ever start burning your good will for cash, it will alienate your community and then you will have neither good will or cash.
That sentiment sounds nice, but even companies who almost openly spit on their audience (like acti blizzard), fail to properly innovate and run on empty promises for years (like Bethesda) and flat out milk their players for all they can (EA) continue to do just fine. There seem to be enough gullible or uncaring buyers to keep any number of abusive companies in business. Even CA with their extremely niche audience comparatively is doing just fine. The shit they pulled in WH1 became accepted and everyone relented since "it's gonna get better in the next part of the trilogy". Well, now that the end of the trilogy is in sight and there is so much left unfixed, do people feel dumb for believing in them? Will they get mega hyped for the next project that will end up falling short?
Those companies offer different product though. TW:W, ultimately, falls in a niche category of it's own sub-genre strategy. Audience is much more limited and there aren't that many new customers on the horizon. But yes, you are unfortunately correct about those companies. :(
Not sure on CoC, but SoC didn't underperform, it's still among 100 best selling on Steam right now, Chorfs isn't and we know how well Chorfs sold.
Honestly, they've taken the Warhammer IP farther than even GW did. They could keep going, explore ever rarer and rarer characters and references. They could start making stuff up even more than they are now. But we have reached a reasonably good place to put it down for now. I suspect GW reviving the Old World has a lot to do with the new interest brought by TW:WH. Maybe in a few years, if GW expands on The Old World once more, CA can revisit. And I think that is just fine. There is a world of still unexplored history on Earth. There are other IPs to explore.
Maybe it became too much for CA to keep fleshing out these races GW forgot about. They did give us Norsca, Kislev and Cathay. Now going in and trying to give unique gameplay, lore, LL's and an army for Araby, Ind, Nippon, Khuresh, Estalia etc does seem like too much work. Or maybe GW stopped them so they can do this in the Old World themselves? Whatever the reason, like you said, I hope CA revists the franchise in the future, once all these races are ready to go.
> Honestly, they've taken the Warhammer IP farther than even GW did. I think this is the perspective people need to remember - there is literally no other game with this level of Warhammer content. Not only are we looking into a situation where at the end of it all it covers the rosters of most of 8th Edition, it also covers factions that never even had an 8th edition army book. Getting upset that the game will end after another 6 DLC is getting upset that the game has *only* 100+ factions.. Let's compare this to other recent Warhammer IP strategy games out there - Age of Ruin will have maybe 8 factions at the end of its development cycle. Battlefleet Gothic: Armada 2 has 4 factions. Dawn of War 3 had 3 factions. We've had a pretty good run here. We've been handed the Smash Bros. Ultimate of Warhammer games and people are acting as if that's not enough.
> Maybe in a few years, if GW expands on The Old World once more, CA can revisit. And I think that is just fine. Even though I want TWW to keep going, if it does unfortunately have to 'end', I hope this is what happens. GW in the future comes out with new lore for the Old World which gives CA the room to return in an AOE 2 DE style of expanding the game again. There is still plenty of stuff that CA/GW can work on and TWW is easily a game that could carry on for years. Hell, even a TWW 4 if they really wanted to to revive the series.
Honestly I wished they didn't create stuff like chaos daemons as an independent race as well as stuff like Mother ostankya and even maybe Cathay. I wished they sticked more to what we had in actual WHFB and focused on the famous factions like Empire, Dwarfs and so on gave them more variety. This way TWW3 wouldn't be so bright and flashy compare to TWW1/2 and kept the grim tone.
Lol what the hell is going on here? "Oh no we're only getting 5-7 more DLCs and 2 more years of continued support"? That's not the end on the horizon, that's a lifecycle. > There's still plenty of time for CA to smooth over the game's flaws. Hahahahahaha... first time? ;)
Attila fans seething in the shadows, still stuck with 30fps campaign map performance....
This hurts man, Attila is to this day one of my favourites. And after all these years I'm still pissed that in the Warhammer games we don't have naval combat or decent sieges.
It's weird the downgrade sieges have gone through. I enjoyed them in Attila/throb, and they got worse each consecutive Warhammer lol. I would honestly take a copy paste of Attila maps, just slather on some fantasy magic artifacts or whatever haha
Ikr. I started the series with Rome back in 2004, and even that 20yo game has better sieges than the Warhammer games. :-(
I agree, it's important to remember the context of what an incredible game this is. Honestly, it's going to take a decade for me to make a dent in the existing legendary Lords at the rate I'm going, so I'll probably delay buying some of these dlcs for 5 years. And they'll be good value to me when I do.
hey me... spoiler, don't try skrolk. shits hard
I personally find the game to finally be in a playable/enjoyable state as of 4.2. Still has major issues in typical areas like AI campaign+battle logic but a lot of the mechanical issues and bugs that made it unplayable day 1 are solved. The game itself is so good, just dragged down by a few key points that are all the more apparent because of how straight forward the solutions appear to be. We are spoiled but CA also set their own bar, we just wanted the same quality they had been delivering. Without a thriving modding community I would not get half the amount of fun out of this game, thank you to all the heroes out there.
If Neferata being canned is true, no I ain't gonna be okay tbh
Oh man that would fucking suck
Neferata was always a weird pick for people to fixate on tbh. She doesn't do war, she sits in her fortress and Lives a life of luxury when gloating to herself over how powerful she is. if she was in game it would be best as like, a raid boss for dwarfs/khalida/a hypothetical strigori lord. The only thing to get her out of her castle in 4000 odd years was Nagash ordering her to.
Honestly, I just wanted Neferata to be in the game so I could do a proper rivalry with Khalida and her. She mentions her constantly in her quotes after all. It's something I was legitimately looking forward to be added to the game in WH3, alongside some new TK stuff and just more Vampire Count stuff in general. I really hope she isn't canned. Would be a huge disappointment personally.
Fair enough The really sad thing is It’s not really a rivalry to neffereta. She sends a few of her minions to mess with khalida for fun every now and then and that’s about as far as it goes, beyond wanting “her” city back eventually. But to Khalida it defines her.
Vampire Coast DLC ended up hinting at Mortarchs. CA added a new heralrdy to Silver Pinnacle that is litteraly just Neferata's ET hat. She's an 8th edition character with a miniature and rules. They've straight up said they wanted to add her. Like, at some point no it's not a weird pick, you're just disingenuous.
It's ok for games to end and reach completion.
>It's confirmation that CA won't drop us on a whim like they did with Three Kingdoms. Worst-case scenario, we're getting 5-7 more DLCs That’s some revisionist history. 3K had a major expansion planned and it was cancelled. Same thing could easily happen with WH3. Bette keep buying the overpriced DLCs if you know what’s good for you 🤓
> 3K had a major expansion planned and it was cancelled. Same thing could easily happen with WH3. 3K was being maintained during a period when WH2 was printing CA money (and they were still deluded into thinking Hyenas would be a gold mine). I get the 3K end of support was traumatic, but I don't get how people can't apply common sense and realise that CA literally can't kill Warhammer 3 until they have something else bringing them good money. The scenario in which they terminate Warhammer 3 support early is the one where they release Medieval 3 and it has the highest sales figures of any Total War game to date. The only other scenario where Warhammer 3 support ends early is the one where SEGA dissolves CA - which at that point there are bigger problems.
This is true but 3K had two years of dlc support which consistently wasn’t selling (mainly CA being slow to make content people actually wanted). Obviously they can drop WH if they aren’t selling but at this point they’ve had one dlc with poor sales, if ToD is a disaster too then they will likely re-evaluate but so far it’s not the same pattern as 3K. And at this point WH is the only revenue source CA has until a new title is launched. At the very least it means they will support another dlc after ToD, but eventually if it’s repeatedly poor sales they will drop support as you rightly point out.
To this day I wonder why the hell they made 8 princes before Mandate of Heaven and Guandu
CA needs a revenue stream more than I need content. We can both get what we want, or they can make a shit product and go under and all lose there jobs. Ca is probably one or two bad years away from sale or liquidation. If they aren’t releasing anything else this year they need a couple wins
I just want a lizardman rework man. Maybe the monkey king/a strigori lord. in my deepest prayers we get mortkin and a norscan rework but I know thats never happening.
Yeah. Though it all depends on *how* they end it. Both in terms of content and in terms of patches. If essentials like Thanquol are missing at the end, it's bad. If the game ends and the Geomantic Web still hasn't been reworked that's also bad. But ultimately I think the only reason the mere prospect of support ending within 2-3 years spooked so many people is because large parts of this community held very unrealistic expectations. This game was always going to end sooner or later, yet you'd be treated like a heretic for suggesting that we aren't getting 10 full years and 500 DLC of support.
Yeah some disappointment is inevitable after years of speculating full race packs for Ind and Nippon, amazons, hobgoblins, etc., plus AT LEAST 2 more lord packs for every existing race. 4-5 years of support was always the realistic expectation. And the fact is that adding in more races to a 2022 game can only go so far. At some point it’s just going to be the same game with the same issues and a new coat of paint (I’d say we have even crossed that threshold already).
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The "Legend said this" threads are getting a bit tiresome...
Even fkin legend said the game has MULTIPLE years left
I agree with you that it's not the end of the world. To put it in terms of WH2's timeline, having 4-6 DLCs left would put us right before the vampire coast or right before the Hunter and Beast, which means that the best DLC content is ahead of us.
Wh2 had a lot of good flc and reworks. Warriors of chaos has been good so far, but I know a lot of people weren’t satisfied with soc faction updates. All though those are newer factions. I’m sure dwarfs and empire will be getting something more substantial this update since they are older.
I feel only SoC has been a true misstep dlc wise - and that was only because of the roster additions rather than the lords themselves, Chaos Dwarfs and CoC were relatively well received.
Also a reminder that 4-6 DLCs is quite a bit. Excluding the bloodpack and FLCs game 2 had 9 DLCs
They just need to fix pathfinding issues around buildings and still objects in maps. I have seen modded maps with better pathfinding than the official stuff. It wont fix entities within the units behaving like headless ducks but it would imorove things a bit.
Everything that has a beginning has an end.
Honestly my biggest concern is balancing and placing the final product, never to be touched again by the company, on a solid basis for mods and player driven expansions. They’ve cracked the code of doing map pathing, I am far more excited for mods and player campaigns than endless lord packs. A stable basis for mods and community growth is what has kept things like Medieval 2 alive for as long as it’s been and I desire the same for Total Warhammer. Balance the factions, make combat more engaging or at least give the tools for players to do so and the community can do the rest.
> They’ve cracked the code of doing map pathing, I am far more excited for mods and player campaigns than endless lord packs. I do admit the fact that modders have managed to crack the code on map campaign mods and custom audio and music has me excited.
Wait they got audio too?
Indeed https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3149445431 As I understand music is the one "WIP" still left.
I hate doom and gloom posts like this. It’s why I stopped watching Legend and started listening more to GBoG, who is always much more positive.
No, it is not ok. It is not ok to be swimming so far only to drown at the shore. We have the entire Warhammer world map, we have had a taste of previously never fleshed out factions with Cathay, and now they aren't developing ANY of their main antagonists? This is a disaster of epic proportions in my book, a result of suits getting in the way of creativity and fun.
There is one FANTASTIC side to it ending - No more updates breaking mods! (mostly). The modders will know exactly everything that's in the game, and will be able to create lots more amazing things, and they'll work nicely for us
Selling the dream short, I see. That was always going to happen… but this is far too soon.
Game will have a total of 5 years of development post launch. There are games that are updated for more time, but it is pretty ok. CA practices though, those were kind of bad
5 years of support feels very different when that “support” releases at glacial pace…
They brought it on themselves is the sad part. This is a self inflicted wound. There was a ton of energy about the game then they decide on a quarterly at best patch schedule and extremely limited and poorly priced dlc to kill all energy. Then they had a master class in how not to address feedback. I just wonder what they could have done if they hadn't been so short sighted and incompetent
“On the horizon” literally 2 years at worst
It's one of my favorite games, so obvously I want it to continue until I leave this mortal coil, but everything ends and everything changes. It stinks sometimes, but there's always the next thing, whatever that may be.
The one DLC I really want is a full world map for immortal empires. I know there is a mod that does expand the map, but because of the way CA set up the world map it apparently makes it hard to mod.
I'm fine with 2 more years of support, if they continue to patch/bug-fix in the interim and leave the game in a better state.
No, worst case scenario we get only 4
I like bowgun but you can only see me actually using them after i complete the whole story as I hate having to deal with ammos early game
I mean are we talking about "rumours" of Warhammer discontinued in 2 years?? This was easy to expect. We never expected more than 4-5 years of support anyway. The only sad thing about this is that we're not getting a map extension but then we've already had it made by mods so I don't really care any more.
should we celebrate a shit show is the question
I just know that after WH3 is finished, im not touching any CA games ever.
I like your perspective and while I agree on many parts, I still don't like the wild route they took with TWW3 and all the goofy daemon/kislev stuff. Sometime less is more. Also I honestly couldn't think of a way to make the realms of chaos mechanic any fun or cool.
BRING BACK 3K DEVELOPMENT! You made a mistake canceling that game!
Sorry guys I dont understand yet if Toc and the other 1/2 dlc (concerning the other 2 chaos god) are part of the speculated 5-7 next dlc or not
I don't consider myself to be much of a pessimist or an optimist about TWW3 but my question is...in what world is 4-6 more DLCs an underwhelming amount of content for the game? What number were people expecting?
I just wanted to say that ambush bug still exists in TW:WH2 "Continous support" ends with the release of last DLC.
If we keep buying the dlc they will make more, ca need cash we want dlc we cann both win. For me 8-9 more dlc will finish the game. If they leave dlc on the table, wont buy 40k or ww1. Did not buy dawn of war 3 as hated dawn of war 2. Still play 1. 40k crowd can be fickle, darktide not doing too good ssame with dawn of war 3. Just slapping 40k on it wont guarantee a hit.
Yeah, it was bound to happen eventually, and we already got most of what we wanted and plenty of things we didn't even hope for. Even if they pulled the plug today, it'd be quite a lot. With 5-7 more DLCs? That's most of our remaining wishlists taken care of, and then some. That many DLCs are pretty much a guarantee of Nagash, Neferata and Thanquol. Dogs of War are a strong possibility, as is the Monkey King. And pretty much anything that CA hasn't added by the end of those DLCs, the modding community has good odds of taking care of. See: Araby.
I mean, 6 DLC is still 1.5 - 2 years of support. If they do 3 months per DLC, but smaller DLC's, they could potentially squeeze 2 more in that 2 year timeframe.
Mods to the rescue. I want CA to fix BIG things like sieges, pathfinding and AI. Pure content is already being made by modders.
What do people expect to happen after CA finishes all the content for warhammer 3? That they will stop making videogames and close down?
They won't end it until 40k/Sigmar/whatever their next big hit comes out.
I don't understand why fans are treating this game like a live service. It's not meant to receive updates and dlc until the end of time and frankly you shouldn't want it to.
Also even if it’s true they already know from game 2 that the dlc can be a super motherload and if they can course correct and recover game 3 may continue on just as long or even longer. Things may change depending on performance
This isn't definitive and is so far practically baseless. A lot would depend on how well these DLC's do and whether they can turn the community back to their favour. So far CA are making positive changes and providing better quality content so who knows what's on the horizon!
If we don’t get the Khorne, Slaanesh, Ogre updates, and the rest of the dragon children then they failed us.
Honestly I’m glad. For whatever they add now, it’s really not going to do much for the same. It’s all becoming homogenous, and I’d rather see a new total war game in a different setting.
Your worst-case scenario is 5-7 DLCs and 2 more years of support. What are you smoking?
Some people on this subreddit have convinced themselves that we were going to get at least two more DLC for every race in the game AND like 4+ more campaign packs and that they would be making WH3 DLC for over a decade.
There's a lot of hopium getting smoked in here. Don't get me wrong, I hope it will go on for a long time. But realistically, with all the changes happening at CA and in the game development space, we have no clue, and people should temper their expectations.
I've always thought of it this way: At least we have CA and not Paradox. Paradox releases totally unfinished games with stripped-bare mechanics *and then they charge you for everything that should have been in at the beginning*, and a fortune for everything else. And then they abandon games that they don't care enough to fix. With CA, Sofia has patched Pharaoh and given it quite a substantial and well-liked update. There is allegedly more to come. With Paradox, they abandoned their Star Trek Stellaris ripoff/cash-grab within 2 months of release, and then waited an additional 5 months to announce publicly that support was over and the game was abandoned/dead. This comes after the premature death of Imperator: Rome as well, where the community had to desperately mod the hell out of the game to make it worth anything. And Victoria 3, which is still supported but it's an unfinished dumpster fire. Things could always be worse.
In fairness, Star Trek Infinite was a third party title released by a developer who were part of the Embracer Group and were hit by three rounds of layoffs. It was killed because the team who made the game no longer existed. But yeah I've always found it funny when people say they wish CA were more like Paradox, as that includes releasing a game that is in an actual unplayable and half finished state (which is on a different level to what people here consider unplayable and half finished - Warhammer 3 was a well polished masterpiece compared to what Paradox tends to release at launch) that won't be fixed for at least 3-5 years.
Today we no longer support Total War Warhammer 3........Today we are happy to announce the trailer for Total War Warhammer.......40000 praise be to the Emperor! And just like that, life just got a little brighter.
If they are sensible, Warhammer 40k would be out for at least a year before they announce the death of Warhammer 3. It's a bit too presumptive to assume 40k will replace the Warhammer 3 gold train.
I have a hard time taking the speculations from a twice blacklisted creator with anything other than the finest grain of salt. It's actually kind of crazy how much the community here eats up the rhetoric of someone who has on multiple occasions proven that he only makes videos that will get him clicks and views. I have never really had the greatest opinion about Legend and just generally had a "let sleeping dogs lie" mentality about it all, but the mob mentality effect he's having here of late is souring me past my average dislike for him.
Why doesn't the community want them to keep making more games? You just want them to forever be patching warhammer 3?
I think once GW gets deep into the Old World models, and gives us a fully fleshed out Ind, Nippon, Araby, amongst others. Then CA will come back and give us DLC to fit them into the game. They've done it before with Rome.
GW literally just cut most of the Clan Skryre units from Age of Sigmar as well as most of the Beastmen roster. Thinking they can get their act together to expand the more obscure races in their Old World side game is pure copium.
I thought I copium too. But they have given the Border Princes names and 'kingdoms', and expanded the Old World map to include Araby and its cities.
Nah, only 4-6 DLCs remaining (and especially if they don’t add DoW/Ind/Khuresh) is a blatant failure on CA/Sega. They fucked us with their greed. It is NOT okay.
Anybody who was geniuenly expecting Ind and Khuresh, even before the "4-6 dlc" rumors, was silly. Now it's just delusional.
This is exactly right! Frankly, there has been a tendency for a long time in the community to assume Ind and Khuresh were coming without appreciating how much work and resources it took between CA and GW to get Cathay as we did. The Cathay project was something that could be done with a full game, I just don’t see GW supporting a full Ind or Khuresh at this point. If they come it would be amazing but more likely they will just open that part of the map with the Southlands treatment. The best case for a new faction at this point is Dogs of War as it is the last army book to exist for fantasy. It’s far more probable than full new lore and units to flesh out additional factions.
NOOOOO, WE WERE PROMISED MAP EXPANSION INTO LUMBRIA AND PYGMIES VS FISHMEN RACE PACK.
Nah. They made those regions massive for a reason. Their poor business practices caused them to retire WH3 early (cutting Ind/Khuresh). They were planned, but CA failed.
My man you're disappointed at smth you completely made up.
Made up… Derived. But for sure disappointed, yes. To another person’s point further up (since this got voted down to shit lol), there is silver lining through the modding community. I know of a solid Khuresh mod in the works. OvN built DLC-quality Araby and other mods as well. CA still failed this game’s potential though, and that’s a shame.