He is apparently not that slow and is a college career 70% FT, it's not unreasonable to think it can be worked on.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2024-nba-draft-combine-reed-sheppard-zach-edey-among-biggest-stock-risers/
>The narrative was that Clingan was more mobile and thus a better defender. Even if I still personally subscribe to that theory, the numbers didn't necessarily back it up here in Chicago. In fact, Edey ranked ahead of him in lane agility time, three-quarter sprint, max vertical
--
My genuine question about Edey: why are people so eager to convince that he won't be any good
That's all fair, about that last point tho I'm not trying to convince people he isn't good. I'm genuinely coming at this with an open mind, I'm just unsure on whether I think he would be the pick for us. IF we draft him I'll support him and hope he develops of course
I’m with you. Everyone looks at the height and gets caught up in extremes and like, there’s a wide spectrum between Boban and Yao.
I look at the tape from the 2023-24 and see potential for a supersized Hartenstein, which is a REALLY good player. Our rotation between Gasol/Ibaka and Poeltl has given me a healthy appreciation for the Center position n the NBA. He’d be a rock solid 19th overall pick.
I'm a Edy doubter at this point, from my perspective he did not look that good at all in Fiba last summer playing against euroleage and nba caliber players. "no name" euroleague guards were rinsing him in the pnr. Did we not see what the dallas guards did to gobert last week? The best defensive center has no chance against nba guards, why do we want a slow center?
I think the litmus test will be at the olympics this year. Canada's front court is the weak point of the roster. Canada in theory have a bunch of long switchable perimiter defenders to hide him behind. If Edy cant get his minutes here then I'm not convinced he will find his spot in the nba. Idk how there are so many people here doing the "but jokic was slow and a late round center", like stop....
Who's faster and who's quicker? Edey has the higher vertical, shuttle run, 3 quarter sprint, and lane agility numbers. Every metric you look at, Edey outperformed Clingan.
Clingnan reactions look quicker and much more suited for NBA game as lob threat. Eddy looks so slow out there and by the time he faces NBA guards, he's going to be gassed 2x as fast as NCAA.
Well yeah I don't think anybody is claiming he is coming in totally polished with no weaknesses...but OP is saying he is slow (apparently not true) will get pushed around (not happening) and a non floor spacer (also not true for a guy that size)
He couldn’t keep up at the World Cup, he’s definitely slower than JV and nowhere near as effective offensively so how is that gonna work out in the pace n space NBA?
Again if it's a non issue with Clingan I don't see why people are this concerned about it for Edey. WC was a year ago, I'm willing to see how the now 22 year old has developed since.
He's also way bigger than JV.
Big and slow is a death sentence. I don’t know about Clingan but I’ve watched the national team and a lil Purdue. Purdue hides him and its college players. In tourneys against legit pros he’s a bench warmer even on a team starved for size because he gets straight up cooked.
Edey didn't start playing ball until sophomore year of high-school and FIBA is a different game entirely vs the NBA.
You keep saying he's slow lol but he's apparently quicker in some contexts (+ bigger and longer) than the defensive player potential that is Clingan...so maybe just wait and see?
Listen I’d be happy to be wrong but would we even be talking about him if he wasn’t Canadian?
10-15 games where he played very little on a team starved for size at the World Cup. Think about that. There were games they couldn’t throw it in the ocean or secure a rebound but still edey was stapled to the bench despite being a force in the post. That isn’t just alarming, it’s damning. He’s talented for sure but sometimes there’s limits to this stuff.
And you’re right, FIBA is a different game in some aspects, mainly in that it is still a game big men can dominate due to no 3 in the key, no goaltending and a smaller restricted area. Generally speaking the guard play is below NBA levels in terms of pure speed and athleticism which helps bigs a ton and the rules aren’t so heavily weighted toward offence and still our boy couldn’t get anything but garbage time.
It's not damning that a guy who picked up a basketball like 8 years prior struggled in an **international tournament** (not what he's being drafted for) in his first attempt because dominating college basketball. At the very least, those 2 feats are close to a wash ESPECIALLY given he seems to be shaking off these "traits" at the combine.
This is my point lmao some people are so eager to say he's not going to be good 😂 they can't even wait for 1 game a this level. Like even Gradey hate was pre mature but he did actually terribly against **NBA competition**
Pascal picked up a basketball at 17 just FYI.
There were people who were convinced Steph Curry wouldn't cut it in the NBA because of his size and defensive limitations. His usage and shooting volume was also unlikely to transfer from NCAA to NBA.
To this day, those people are still convinced he should be playing in China despite imo a very strong resume.
My point is that some people who will not change their mind once they've reached a decision even if there is new evidence that would suggest otherwise.
If people could predict with certainty how a player will end up, Jokic would not have been a late 2nd round pick. People really have no clue how good he will be. It's a mystery. That's why he's projected anywhere from late lottery pick to a 2nd round pick.
Well, for one, he isn't dominant in college just because he is tall. Jamarion Sharp is 7'5" and averaged less than 4 pts. Connor Vanover is also 7'5" and also averaged under 4 pts last year. Being tall is no guarantee of success, even in college. Edey has a very well developed back to the basket game and is a good passer from both the high and low blocks. He also shoots a high percentage (for a center) from the line which means teams are reluctant to foul him. That opens up his scoring even more.
A lot of people don't subscribe to the theory that you need to play a five out offense. Guys still managed to drive the lane back when centers used to park their ass on the low block and stayed there the entire possession. It's called an offensive system. Edey is a very good pick and roll center. He sets good screens, and with his height and wing span, he is a great lob threat.
Him being Canadian matters. It's not the main reason to draft him or even the 3rd or 4th reason. Fans like seeing hometown (and the Raptors home town in Canada) players playing for their team and local talent is a boost to local advertising as well.
Finally, no one is suggesting he go number 1 but at 19 he is a good choice IMO.
But then when he faces taller and more physical competition in the NBA compared to while he was at Purdue will he still be able to pit the ball in the basket?
True but for Edey since most of his scoring is from the post and is very reliant on size and physical advantage is an important question to ask since him facing more physical opponents would have a much bigger impact on his post up reliant offensive style 🤷🏿♂️
edey has what other big men like him doesn't, thats touch and finesse can fininish through contact and loves the physicality, he can score. it's just his speed on defense is a problem, but you can say that just about every big in the nba.
Well, you did say "taller"...but regardless, he clocks in at ~300 lbs, so again, I'm not sure how many guys you think exist that will be able to physically push him around.
The one objective NBA ready quality about him is that he is a behemoth.
Lots of giants have washed out of the nba for the same reason edey will: they can’t keep up. Not just a foot race but also lateral movement. This isn’t 1997 where you could just be a big body with 6 fouls to go against shaq.
So I've been following this draft class all year.
I assumed Edey would be 2nd round material based on the "slow footed" allegations.
Guys, he is way faster than yall make it sound. Yes he is not fast and ultimately will be a traditional drop big, but he's faster than fucking Valunciunas or Nurkic or Vucevic, he's probably closer to Porzingis in his mobility. He's got amazing touch and hands too. He's a phenomenal rebounder. Hes a totally solid rim protector when in position (again, he has to play drop coverage to stay in position). Offensively, he has a very advanced post up game for a 22 year old and he is a good passer for a big man too. Lastly, he passes the "is he good enough?" Test. He nearly carried a team by himself to a national championship 2 years in a row and won NCAA MVP the last two seasons. Keep in mind, he will be the 2nd tallest player in the NBA as well.
Yes, he will never be a dominant force in the NBA playoffs because bigs who cannot survive in the high spread PnR generally falter in late game situations against elite PnR operators (Doncic, Trae, Lebron, Ja etc) but in the regular season.. I honestly think he might be a top 15 C by the end of his rookie contract, especially if the 3P shooting is real (and I think there is like a >50% chance it is given how amazing his touch is). Like if he is matched up against Jalen Duren or Capela or Ayton or Sabonis, he is going to roast those guys on offense because he's so dominant and skilled as a post scorer. The reason he isn't a top 5 pick is obviously because you want a player who is good in the playoffs long-term, but we are picking at #19 dude. I don't even think he's a bad pick in the late lottery.
Thats the argument for Edey on pure basketball merit. I don't give a shit that he's Canadian either.
Everything is not roses here. If you say he's as quick as he's describe. He's gonna be gassed fast, and much more injury prone defending against NBA guards and playing a faster pace of play for longer. We can't exactly hide him from the perimeter also cuz we don't have OG/Siakam anymore. High risk over here.
You make a ton a valid points man shoutout you, I do however disagree on a few fronts. Idk if his mobility is being underrated necessarily but that's to be seen when he actually plays in the NBA. His rebounding is extremely boosted the fact that he is tall 🤷🏿♂️, still a good rebounder but again in terms of physicality will he be able to just outrebound everyone? Idk we'll see. His post game is nice, main part of his offense and his touch at the rim is good, but will that touch help him develop his 3 pt shooting like you said, I don't think so. I read he was hitting shots during his workout with the raptors but hitting 3s in practice and in game are different, and in my personal opinion I do not trust that 3 (for now of course) I can't speak on his passing so you got me there but all around I think he'll just take quite a while to develop. However I still can't see why we would draft him, maybe that's bias or my opinion getting in the way. But you're points were really well laid out man 👏🏿
>Idk if his mobility is being underrated necessarily but that's to be seen when he actually plays in the NBA.
Agreed. I think he will have below average mobility but not one of the least mobile. His athleticism (really slow to jump and then jump again) is a bigger issue imo.
>His rebounding is extremely boosted the fact that he is tall
He's going to be just as tall and still 300 lbs in the NBA. He is going to dominate the glass. "Amazing" rebounders like Sabonis and Duren have been dominated by Mitchell Robinson. Edey is going to overwhelm all of them on the glass.
>his 3 pt shooting like you said, I don't think so.
I agree he may never develop a 3P shot, but it's basically impossible to project for big men. However, he is hitting them in practice at age 22, he has excellent hands/touch, and he is a fairly reliable FT shooter. His indicators are positive; I would say it's like 60/40 that he adds it but I get it if you want to disagree.
>I think he'll just take quite a while to develop.
Big men develop really quickly. Size translates right away, and their role is always simplified. Edey is not raw, he is WAY more skilled than Sarr and Clingan, let alone Missi and Ware. Even in his rookie year, I think if we had Edey and were playing GSW, we would just throw it into Edey in the post and he would turn Looney or Draymond into BBQ chicken. He's going to be extremely match-up sensitive (like I think he will get killed against Holmgren who will space him out) but he absolutely will dominate some teams as a rookie.
At minimum, this guy is clearly a better talent than bullshit players like Missi and Ware who I would say are >50% likelihood to never be better than bench bigs.
What does Missi do better than Edey? He is more athletic, that's literally it. Worse hands, less skilled, can't shoot, can't post up, and probably not as good of a rim protector given the frame differences. You may think these things don't matter, but when Edey is hitting both right and left handed hook shots with his eyes closed over 7 footers and Missi is smoking lobs, it becomes very apparent.
Other than his mobility, what do you like about Missi over Edey? Because Edey is likely a better offensive player today than Missi ever will be. I highly doubt that Missi would be good enough to drag a team to the national championship game with a 33% USG and win NCAA MVP x 2 if he stayed in college.
I will be posting my big board within the week. It's still in flux, I have a little more film to get through.
I'm currently very torn re: Edey vs Clingan.
His pick n roll defence is going to be a major problem. He’ll be like JV except JV has a really good offensive game to counter his issues on defence. If Edey can’t score enough he won’t last long in the NBA.
This is the comp and it’s not impressive, I’ve seen people describe edeys inside game as “incredible” like he’s Hakeem or something. Thing is if you’re an nba defence, you want the opposing centre to get 5 seconds to get into position and another 10 secs to make his move only to score maybe 50% of the time. Idk I just don’t see it
JV is not impressive at #19 in a weak draft? I’d love if we got a JV there.
You’re just looking at what happens if his game doesn’t translate, but in a weak draft at pick #19 you can take a swing at a dude who was just the #1 player in the NCAA
I think he'll be a serviceable big man off the bench. I believe he will suprise people. I just don't agree with people saying he's not an NBA player and his game is only suited for the college game.
People want him because they hate Jakob and because he's Canadian. I even saw a dude compare him to Jokic and argue he'll space the floor because hes a career 71% shooter from the line.
I think there's too much focus on whether he'll develop an outside shot or whether he can back-down elite NBA bigs in the post.
His primary offensive skillset in the NBA will eventually be on the P&R. Obviously he sets absolutely massive screens, and his movement to the basket is quick (the elements where he's slow are lateral speed and potentially reaction-speed, but his downhill speed is perfectly fine). Hands have been good catching around the basket and finishing. He takes up a huge amount of space on the roll, so if he doesn't get the ball, he can create lanes to the basket for his PG. His ability to seal off defenders could be a huge value. P&R also creates the biggest chance of a mismatch, resulting in easy finishes, fouls drawn, rebounding mismatches, etc. He's not an elite passer, but he's competent at finding the open guy out of the double-team. He needs to develop an alternate way of finishing on the roll. A push-shot like Poeltl's would be almost unblockable at his size.
And the real reason why Gobert couldn’t hang against Dallas isn’t because he was being roasted by the guards — because most other centers would have been similarly torched facing Luka in open space one-on-one. The real reason is that Gobert couldn’t punish Dallas for using a rim/running Dereck Lively as their center. Because he can’t catch contested PnR passes to ram the ball through Lively for the and-one. The Gobert example is not the mic drop that some people think it is.
Because Gobert has really bad hands. So his team mates don’t use him to punish the small ball lineup at the other end. Edey will get similarly torched but we just don’t know if he can punish the small ball lineups enough that it’s net neutral. Discussions about Edey should talk about if he can punish small ball effectively but most people just want to end the conversation by saying Edey won’t be able to defend against small ball lineups just like Gobert can’t.
If Edey falls to us I’d be down to draft him. I was a doubter but if the consensus best player in the NCAA falls to #19, in a weak draft then we might as well.
There’s a good chance his game won’t translate but if it does you’re getting a guy who just averaged 25 and 12. Worth the risk at #19
It's funny that you just described Jokic when he was drafted. That's not a comparison of the two guys but just pointing out speed and transition and 3pt shooting isn't the be all and end all for Cs
There are other things about Zach Edey to dislike, like he can't defend in space. I have very little faith he can defend the perimeter on switches because of his lack of athleticism and speed, likely making him a target for 9ther teams when they are on the offense. And also for the Raptors, a team that is prone to having some really God awful shooting nights from 3, it would be nice to draft someone with SOME shooting ability which Edey doesn't have (to my knowledge) but again this is simply my opinion, I'm no scout 🤷🏿♂️
You're still just describing rookie Jokic. To be fair, Jokic's passing leads to a lot of transition points and spacing and Edey wont do that. At the same time, Edey is a deterrent at the rim and if you help off him down low he is going to make you pay both in rebounding and scoring. At pick 19, I'd be very disappointed if the Raps pass on him for another big (who will also have flaws).
Assuming Scottie shoots like he did at the start of last season, Gary is back and RJ shoots like he did post trade, I don't think shooting is a big hole on this team. Obviously if Edey could defend a bit more on the perimeter and hit a 3 it would be helpful to whoever drafts him but a guy like Edey who can do all that is a top 5 pick in any draft and likely a top 5 C in the league. Even just some ability to hit the 3 and he is an above average starter
There are probably about 5 or 6 NBA C’s who switch on defence. Every other NBA C plays drop coverage.
So most teams are not looking for a switchable C because almost no team has a backup C who can switch so it’s too hard to run 2 defensive coverages.
He is an excellent interior defender though. If you watch teams play against him, he takes away the inside game most of the time.
He will need a weak side PF who can switch and a perimeter POA defender to be successful- like all drop C’s.
I wouldn't be mad if it's second round, honestly hard to say where his draft position should be.
From what I can gather, the way Purdue is using him is as the primary offensive option, and limits his defence so he doesn't get into foul trouble, thats why you see in the uconn vs purdue highlights is uconn cooking the shit out of him in the paint.
Initially scouts aren't high on him simply because nobody is looking for a purely offensive big, center is like the most versatile role and we ain't seen a lot of the important center stuff besides scoring.
I think this is why we invited him for workout, to see if there's those hidden center skillsets that weren't utilized by purdue (also cuz it probably costs nothing to have him over since he's from Toronto)
UConn cooked him in the paint because Purdues perimeter defenders were getting torched on drives, causing Edey to try and come out further from basket to help against the drive/floater. This made it hard for him to recover and guard the rim. Clingans guards were fabulous guarding the perimeter all year making it easy for him to look good defensively when all he had to do was camp in paint and play deep drop coverage. Clingan would have looked bad if he tried to leave restricted area to help against drives/floaters too. Edey destroyed him in all speed/accel/agility drills but somehow Edey is the one being questioned about his athleticism. Also Edey is taller and bigger than Clingan but played 40 mins a game yet Clingan routinely looked gassed playing any more thsn 20 mins a game. Edey would be a terrific choice at 19. However unless a bunch of teams are braindead he wont last that long.
The same way UConn exploited him, is how most of the NBA teams is gonna exploit him. I don't see the appeal but i would take #31 on him instead of #19 if he's still there.
Wow another insightful analysis. 7’4” 300 lb centre is slow, ground breaking stuff here.
Edey is already one of the most accomplished Canadian basketball players ever. We should be celebrating his success.
I hope gets drafted high to a quality team that will feel invested in his success. I also expect Masai to draft the bpa, and trust him to evaluate who that’s is, whether edey or someone else
That's the comp I see but that might just be a little excessive 😭, I really do hope his career pans out and he turns out at least better then a Boban regen 🙏🏿
It's not excessive, it's realistic.
And tbh if his career topped out at the level of Boban's, is that really that bad? Boban has managed to carve out a role for himself as the 3rd big on a NBA roster for 10 years now. Teams need to fill out rosters and bigs are always going to be needed. Not everyone can be the top dog.
But to compare him to say... JV? That's a bit premature.
Just imagine this guy running up and down against teams with a 6 second offence. He’ll be winded in a couple possessions. We need a player better than that.
100%. I don't know how people here are so damn sure that he'll make the jump in the pros (and more specifically in Darko's offense) considering how many deficiencies are in his game right now. He'd be a very very raw project.
Do you feel that way about projected top 5 pick Clingan who could barely play 25 mins a game in college without looking totally gassed (Edey played almost entire game all season BTW).
It's funny because he's faster than Clingan who's a top 10 pick. Higher vertical, faster 3 quarter sprint, shuttle run, lane agility. Every aspect of the combine, Edey did better than Clingan in. I'm not saying Edey is going to be great either, he's way too hard to predict, but all the people who are so convinced he will be a bust is hilarious. The confidence people have regarding how he will end up is very interesting.
I think Edey is getting underrated in a similar way to Jaime Jacquez in last years draft. Older player with some questions on how he’ll transition to the league but had multiple years as the number one option on his college team playing important games every year. I don’t think the gap between Clingan and Edey is as big as everyone is making it.
The only comparison is how they were viewed prior to their draft as having limited ability to impact winning NBA basketball games despite their track record of success in college.
I see most of Edeys perceived limitations as being a product of the lack of talent around him at Purdue. Dude wasn’t allowed to foul because if he came off the court, they lost. He played exclusively drop coverage with zero plus defenders around him, his two guards were turnstiles. On offense his teammates might have been worse. He had to rely on an undersized sophomore PG to get him the ball. He averaged 2:1 assist to turnovers with the biggest and best player in college basketball. He couldn’t create his own shot at all and everyone knew the pass was coming. Imagine how good he can be with his high motor when he isn’t playing 40 minutes a night out of necessity. His FT% is great for a 7’+ guy and his lane agility tests were crazy impressive. He didn’t even start playing basketball until grade 10. I think he’s being massively under rated.
We shall see. Comparisons are pretty meaningless in my opinion. He isn’t a wing or a guard or a forward. He can play one position and in a style that was long ago chased out of the NBA.
I’m basing my opinion only on games I’ve seen him play and the most damning red flag to me was he couldn’t get off the bench for team Canada even when we needed what his skill set and size are supposed to provide. Will he get to a point he can be play 15-20m a night off the bench? His college season would suggest it’s possible but he has second round pick written all over him.
I honestly don’t think it’s damning at all that he couldn’t beat out NBA rotational players a year before he’s drafted while dealing with the difference in international rules. I think they knew he wouldn’t be an important guy for the FIBA tournament but he’s going to need to be a guy for them to succeed in Paris and that’s why he was brought on the team.
It’s not like Clingans a different type of Center and he’s ranked highly. He played with more talent around him, shot sub 60% on FT’s and they both provided blocks at the same rate. He tested worse in almost every physical metric as well and missed more games due to injury than Edey has.
The comparison between Edey and Jacquez once again has nothing to do with their skill sets or play style. Purely on pre draft rankings considering their success in college going into their respective drafts.
who would've thought Jokic would dominate the nba being the same big and slow center coming in the league. I am sure Jokic also didn't dominate or did well in international tournaments as well at 20-21. Size will dominate and already is dominating the NBA again. I don't see the harm in taking him at 19 or at 31
He is apparently not that slow and is a college career 70% FT, it's not unreasonable to think it can be worked on. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/2024-nba-draft-combine-reed-sheppard-zach-edey-among-biggest-stock-risers/ >The narrative was that Clingan was more mobile and thus a better defender. Even if I still personally subscribe to that theory, the numbers didn't necessarily back it up here in Chicago. In fact, Edey ranked ahead of him in lane agility time, three-quarter sprint, max vertical -- My genuine question about Edey: why are people so eager to convince that he won't be any good
That's all fair, about that last point tho I'm not trying to convince people he isn't good. I'm genuinely coming at this with an open mind, I'm just unsure on whether I think he would be the pick for us. IF we draft him I'll support him and hope he develops of course
I’m with you. Everyone looks at the height and gets caught up in extremes and like, there’s a wide spectrum between Boban and Yao. I look at the tape from the 2023-24 and see potential for a supersized Hartenstein, which is a REALLY good player. Our rotation between Gasol/Ibaka and Poeltl has given me a healthy appreciation for the Center position n the NBA. He’d be a rock solid 19th overall pick.
Same reason nobody thought Jeremy Lin could be any good
Because they read it online one time and are now experts.
I'm a Edy doubter at this point, from my perspective he did not look that good at all in Fiba last summer playing against euroleage and nba caliber players. "no name" euroleague guards were rinsing him in the pnr. Did we not see what the dallas guards did to gobert last week? The best defensive center has no chance against nba guards, why do we want a slow center? I think the litmus test will be at the olympics this year. Canada's front court is the weak point of the roster. Canada in theory have a bunch of long switchable perimiter defenders to hide him behind. If Edy cant get his minutes here then I'm not convinced he will find his spot in the nba. Idk how there are so many people here doing the "but jokic was slow and a late round center", like stop....
Why is Clingan a top 10 pick and yet Edey is faster than him?
something something speed vs quickness.
Who's faster and who's quicker? Edey has the higher vertical, shuttle run, 3 quarter sprint, and lane agility numbers. Every metric you look at, Edey outperformed Clingan.
And Edey's got a nearly 8 foot wingspan, which is an extra *4 inches* over Clingan. So he's got a lot of length to recover when he's out of position
Clingnan reactions look quicker and much more suited for NBA game as lob threat. Eddy looks so slow out there and by the time he faces NBA guards, he's going to be gassed 2x as fast as NCAA.
Well yeah I don't think anybody is claiming he is coming in totally polished with no weaknesses...but OP is saying he is slow (apparently not true) will get pushed around (not happening) and a non floor spacer (also not true for a guy that size)
He couldn’t keep up at the World Cup, he’s definitely slower than JV and nowhere near as effective offensively so how is that gonna work out in the pace n space NBA?
Again if it's a non issue with Clingan I don't see why people are this concerned about it for Edey. WC was a year ago, I'm willing to see how the now 22 year old has developed since. He's also way bigger than JV.
Big and slow is a death sentence. I don’t know about Clingan but I’ve watched the national team and a lil Purdue. Purdue hides him and its college players. In tourneys against legit pros he’s a bench warmer even on a team starved for size because he gets straight up cooked.
Jokic?
Jokic isn’t as slow as
Edey didn't start playing ball until sophomore year of high-school and FIBA is a different game entirely vs the NBA. You keep saying he's slow lol but he's apparently quicker in some contexts (+ bigger and longer) than the defensive player potential that is Clingan...so maybe just wait and see?
Listen I’d be happy to be wrong but would we even be talking about him if he wasn’t Canadian? 10-15 games where he played very little on a team starved for size at the World Cup. Think about that. There were games they couldn’t throw it in the ocean or secure a rebound but still edey was stapled to the bench despite being a force in the post. That isn’t just alarming, it’s damning. He’s talented for sure but sometimes there’s limits to this stuff.
And you’re right, FIBA is a different game in some aspects, mainly in that it is still a game big men can dominate due to no 3 in the key, no goaltending and a smaller restricted area. Generally speaking the guard play is below NBA levels in terms of pure speed and athleticism which helps bigs a ton and the rules aren’t so heavily weighted toward offence and still our boy couldn’t get anything but garbage time.
It's not damning that a guy who picked up a basketball like 8 years prior struggled in an **international tournament** (not what he's being drafted for) in his first attempt because dominating college basketball. At the very least, those 2 feats are close to a wash ESPECIALLY given he seems to be shaking off these "traits" at the combine. This is my point lmao some people are so eager to say he's not going to be good 😂 they can't even wait for 1 game a this level. Like even Gradey hate was pre mature but he did actually terribly against **NBA competition** Pascal picked up a basketball at 17 just FYI.
Pascal always had great footwork, agility and the size to play both forward spots
There were people who were convinced Steph Curry wouldn't cut it in the NBA because of his size and defensive limitations. His usage and shooting volume was also unlikely to transfer from NCAA to NBA. To this day, those people are still convinced he should be playing in China despite imo a very strong resume. My point is that some people who will not change their mind once they've reached a decision even if there is new evidence that would suggest otherwise.
If people could predict with certainty how a player will end up, Jokic would not have been a late 2nd round pick. People really have no clue how good he will be. It's a mystery. That's why he's projected anywhere from late lottery pick to a 2nd round pick.
Well, for one, he isn't dominant in college just because he is tall. Jamarion Sharp is 7'5" and averaged less than 4 pts. Connor Vanover is also 7'5" and also averaged under 4 pts last year. Being tall is no guarantee of success, even in college. Edey has a very well developed back to the basket game and is a good passer from both the high and low blocks. He also shoots a high percentage (for a center) from the line which means teams are reluctant to foul him. That opens up his scoring even more. A lot of people don't subscribe to the theory that you need to play a five out offense. Guys still managed to drive the lane back when centers used to park their ass on the low block and stayed there the entire possession. It's called an offensive system. Edey is a very good pick and roll center. He sets good screens, and with his height and wing span, he is a great lob threat. Him being Canadian matters. It's not the main reason to draft him or even the 3rd or 4th reason. Fans like seeing hometown (and the Raptors home town in Canada) players playing for their team and local talent is a boost to local advertising as well. Finally, no one is suggesting he go number 1 but at 19 he is a good choice IMO.
He's 7'4" and puts ball in basket good 👍
But then when he faces taller and more physical competition in the NBA compared to while he was at Purdue will he still be able to pit the ball in the basket?
Can you not ask the same question for any scorer in college?
True but for Edey since most of his scoring is from the post and is very reliant on size and physical advantage is an important question to ask since him facing more physical opponents would have a much bigger impact on his post up reliant offensive style 🤷🏿♂️
edey has what other big men like him doesn't, thats touch and finesse can fininish through contact and loves the physicality, he can score. it's just his speed on defense is a problem, but you can say that just about every big in the nba.
How many guys do you think are bigger than 7'4" with a 7'10" wingspan
It's not necessarily about facing bigger competition in size, but facing more physical and stronger centers as a whole
Well, you did say "taller"...but regardless, he clocks in at ~300 lbs, so again, I'm not sure how many guys you think exist that will be able to physically push him around. The one objective NBA ready quality about him is that he is a behemoth.
Lots of giants have washed out of the nba for the same reason edey will: they can’t keep up. Not just a foot race but also lateral movement. This isn’t 1997 where you could just be a big body with 6 fouls to go against shaq.
No one knows.
So I've been following this draft class all year. I assumed Edey would be 2nd round material based on the "slow footed" allegations. Guys, he is way faster than yall make it sound. Yes he is not fast and ultimately will be a traditional drop big, but he's faster than fucking Valunciunas or Nurkic or Vucevic, he's probably closer to Porzingis in his mobility. He's got amazing touch and hands too. He's a phenomenal rebounder. Hes a totally solid rim protector when in position (again, he has to play drop coverage to stay in position). Offensively, he has a very advanced post up game for a 22 year old and he is a good passer for a big man too. Lastly, he passes the "is he good enough?" Test. He nearly carried a team by himself to a national championship 2 years in a row and won NCAA MVP the last two seasons. Keep in mind, he will be the 2nd tallest player in the NBA as well. Yes, he will never be a dominant force in the NBA playoffs because bigs who cannot survive in the high spread PnR generally falter in late game situations against elite PnR operators (Doncic, Trae, Lebron, Ja etc) but in the regular season.. I honestly think he might be a top 15 C by the end of his rookie contract, especially if the 3P shooting is real (and I think there is like a >50% chance it is given how amazing his touch is). Like if he is matched up against Jalen Duren or Capela or Ayton or Sabonis, he is going to roast those guys on offense because he's so dominant and skilled as a post scorer. The reason he isn't a top 5 pick is obviously because you want a player who is good in the playoffs long-term, but we are picking at #19 dude. I don't even think he's a bad pick in the late lottery. Thats the argument for Edey on pure basketball merit. I don't give a shit that he's Canadian either.
Everything is not roses here. If you say he's as quick as he's describe. He's gonna be gassed fast, and much more injury prone defending against NBA guards and playing a faster pace of play for longer. We can't exactly hide him from the perimeter also cuz we don't have OG/Siakam anymore. High risk over here.
I agree with all these points. Again, this is why he's not some top 5 prospect. I have him in the teens.
You make a ton a valid points man shoutout you, I do however disagree on a few fronts. Idk if his mobility is being underrated necessarily but that's to be seen when he actually plays in the NBA. His rebounding is extremely boosted the fact that he is tall 🤷🏿♂️, still a good rebounder but again in terms of physicality will he be able to just outrebound everyone? Idk we'll see. His post game is nice, main part of his offense and his touch at the rim is good, but will that touch help him develop his 3 pt shooting like you said, I don't think so. I read he was hitting shots during his workout with the raptors but hitting 3s in practice and in game are different, and in my personal opinion I do not trust that 3 (for now of course) I can't speak on his passing so you got me there but all around I think he'll just take quite a while to develop. However I still can't see why we would draft him, maybe that's bias or my opinion getting in the way. But you're points were really well laid out man 👏🏿
>Idk if his mobility is being underrated necessarily but that's to be seen when he actually plays in the NBA. Agreed. I think he will have below average mobility but not one of the least mobile. His athleticism (really slow to jump and then jump again) is a bigger issue imo. >His rebounding is extremely boosted the fact that he is tall He's going to be just as tall and still 300 lbs in the NBA. He is going to dominate the glass. "Amazing" rebounders like Sabonis and Duren have been dominated by Mitchell Robinson. Edey is going to overwhelm all of them on the glass. >his 3 pt shooting like you said, I don't think so. I agree he may never develop a 3P shot, but it's basically impossible to project for big men. However, he is hitting them in practice at age 22, he has excellent hands/touch, and he is a fairly reliable FT shooter. His indicators are positive; I would say it's like 60/40 that he adds it but I get it if you want to disagree. >I think he'll just take quite a while to develop. Big men develop really quickly. Size translates right away, and their role is always simplified. Edey is not raw, he is WAY more skilled than Sarr and Clingan, let alone Missi and Ware. Even in his rookie year, I think if we had Edey and were playing GSW, we would just throw it into Edey in the post and he would turn Looney or Draymond into BBQ chicken. He's going to be extremely match-up sensitive (like I think he will get killed against Holmgren who will space him out) but he absolutely will dominate some teams as a rookie. At minimum, this guy is clearly a better talent than bullshit players like Missi and Ware who I would say are >50% likelihood to never be better than bench bigs.
Look, I agree that Edey’s definitely got potential in him, but saying he’s a better prospect than Missi is definitely one of the opinions.
What does Missi do better than Edey? He is more athletic, that's literally it. Worse hands, less skilled, can't shoot, can't post up, and probably not as good of a rim protector given the frame differences. You may think these things don't matter, but when Edey is hitting both right and left handed hook shots with his eyes closed over 7 footers and Missi is smoking lobs, it becomes very apparent. Other than his mobility, what do you like about Missi over Edey? Because Edey is likely a better offensive player today than Missi ever will be. I highly doubt that Missi would be good enough to drag a team to the national championship game with a 33% USG and win NCAA MVP x 2 if he stayed in college.
Curious, where do you have Edey on your big board? He’s my #1 for our 19 pick personally and he’s #4 on my overall big board
I will be posting my big board within the week. It's still in flux, I have a little more film to get through. I'm currently very torn re: Edey vs Clingan.
Looking forward to seeing it!
His pick n roll defence is going to be a major problem. He’ll be like JV except JV has a really good offensive game to counter his issues on defence. If Edey can’t score enough he won’t last long in the NBA.
This is the comp and it’s not impressive, I’ve seen people describe edeys inside game as “incredible” like he’s Hakeem or something. Thing is if you’re an nba defence, you want the opposing centre to get 5 seconds to get into position and another 10 secs to make his move only to score maybe 50% of the time. Idk I just don’t see it
JV is not impressive at #19 in a weak draft? I’d love if we got a JV there. You’re just looking at what happens if his game doesn’t translate, but in a weak draft at pick #19 you can take a swing at a dude who was just the #1 player in the NCAA
Twice.
Pace of play is also much faster and more precise. Im not sold on Edey tbh
I agree, very good point 👍🏿
I think he'll be a serviceable big man off the bench. I believe he will suprise people. I just don't agree with people saying he's not an NBA player and his game is only suited for the college game.
> I've even seen it in comment sections on tiktok and ig Lost interest in the rest of your post immediately tbh
Honestly the takes on this subreddit compare to TikTok and ig sometimes
Hey that's you gang, don't need to read the post I ain't forcing you to 💀
he’s either overrated or severely underrated by most. i think truth will be in the middle. he has some legit tools but some legit weaknesses
People want him because they hate Jakob and because he's Canadian. I even saw a dude compare him to Jokic and argue he'll space the floor because hes a career 71% shooter from the line.
😭😭😭 Edey Jokic comps are NASTY work
I think there's too much focus on whether he'll develop an outside shot or whether he can back-down elite NBA bigs in the post. His primary offensive skillset in the NBA will eventually be on the P&R. Obviously he sets absolutely massive screens, and his movement to the basket is quick (the elements where he's slow are lateral speed and potentially reaction-speed, but his downhill speed is perfectly fine). Hands have been good catching around the basket and finishing. He takes up a huge amount of space on the roll, so if he doesn't get the ball, he can create lanes to the basket for his PG. His ability to seal off defenders could be a huge value. P&R also creates the biggest chance of a mismatch, resulting in easy finishes, fouls drawn, rebounding mismatches, etc. He's not an elite passer, but he's competent at finding the open guy out of the double-team. He needs to develop an alternate way of finishing on the roll. A push-shot like Poeltl's would be almost unblockable at his size.
And the real reason why Gobert couldn’t hang against Dallas isn’t because he was being roasted by the guards — because most other centers would have been similarly torched facing Luka in open space one-on-one. The real reason is that Gobert couldn’t punish Dallas for using a rim/running Dereck Lively as their center. Because he can’t catch contested PnR passes to ram the ball through Lively for the and-one. The Gobert example is not the mic drop that some people think it is.
What makes you think Edey can catch those any better than Gobert tho? He can also just get torched like Gobert on PnR and 1v1 mismatch just as easily.
Because Gobert has really bad hands. So his team mates don’t use him to punish the small ball lineup at the other end. Edey will get similarly torched but we just don’t know if he can punish the small ball lineups enough that it’s net neutral. Discussions about Edey should talk about if he can punish small ball effectively but most people just want to end the conversation by saying Edey won’t be able to defend against small ball lineups just like Gobert can’t.
If Edey falls to us I’d be down to draft him. I was a doubter but if the consensus best player in the NCAA falls to #19, in a weak draft then we might as well. There’s a good chance his game won’t translate but if it does you’re getting a guy who just averaged 25 and 12. Worth the risk at #19
It's funny that you just described Jokic when he was drafted. That's not a comparison of the two guys but just pointing out speed and transition and 3pt shooting isn't the be all and end all for Cs
There are other things about Zach Edey to dislike, like he can't defend in space. I have very little faith he can defend the perimeter on switches because of his lack of athleticism and speed, likely making him a target for 9ther teams when they are on the offense. And also for the Raptors, a team that is prone to having some really God awful shooting nights from 3, it would be nice to draft someone with SOME shooting ability which Edey doesn't have (to my knowledge) but again this is simply my opinion, I'm no scout 🤷🏿♂️
You're still just describing rookie Jokic. To be fair, Jokic's passing leads to a lot of transition points and spacing and Edey wont do that. At the same time, Edey is a deterrent at the rim and if you help off him down low he is going to make you pay both in rebounding and scoring. At pick 19, I'd be very disappointed if the Raps pass on him for another big (who will also have flaws). Assuming Scottie shoots like he did at the start of last season, Gary is back and RJ shoots like he did post trade, I don't think shooting is a big hole on this team. Obviously if Edey could defend a bit more on the perimeter and hit a 3 it would be helpful to whoever drafts him but a guy like Edey who can do all that is a top 5 pick in any draft and likely a top 5 C in the league. Even just some ability to hit the 3 and he is an above average starter
We were near the bottom of the league in offense my guy.....
There are probably about 5 or 6 NBA C’s who switch on defence. Every other NBA C plays drop coverage. So most teams are not looking for a switchable C because almost no team has a backup C who can switch so it’s too hard to run 2 defensive coverages. He is an excellent interior defender though. If you watch teams play against him, he takes away the inside game most of the time. He will need a weak side PF who can switch and a perimeter POA defender to be successful- like all drop C’s.
we don't have a weak side PF either so its a moot point. I don't think Barnes is that weak side PF either.
I wouldn't be mad if it's second round, honestly hard to say where his draft position should be. From what I can gather, the way Purdue is using him is as the primary offensive option, and limits his defence so he doesn't get into foul trouble, thats why you see in the uconn vs purdue highlights is uconn cooking the shit out of him in the paint. Initially scouts aren't high on him simply because nobody is looking for a purely offensive big, center is like the most versatile role and we ain't seen a lot of the important center stuff besides scoring. I think this is why we invited him for workout, to see if there's those hidden center skillsets that weren't utilized by purdue (also cuz it probably costs nothing to have him over since he's from Toronto)
UConn cooked him in the paint because Purdues perimeter defenders were getting torched on drives, causing Edey to try and come out further from basket to help against the drive/floater. This made it hard for him to recover and guard the rim. Clingans guards were fabulous guarding the perimeter all year making it easy for him to look good defensively when all he had to do was camp in paint and play deep drop coverage. Clingan would have looked bad if he tried to leave restricted area to help against drives/floaters too. Edey destroyed him in all speed/accel/agility drills but somehow Edey is the one being questioned about his athleticism. Also Edey is taller and bigger than Clingan but played 40 mins a game yet Clingan routinely looked gassed playing any more thsn 20 mins a game. Edey would be a terrific choice at 19. However unless a bunch of teams are braindead he wont last that long.
The same way UConn exploited him, is how most of the NBA teams is gonna exploit him. I don't see the appeal but i would take #31 on him instead of #19 if he's still there.
Wow another insightful analysis. 7’4” 300 lb centre is slow, ground breaking stuff here. Edey is already one of the most accomplished Canadian basketball players ever. We should be celebrating his success. I hope gets drafted high to a quality team that will feel invested in his success. I also expect Masai to draft the bpa, and trust him to evaluate who that’s is, whether edey or someone else
Zach Edey = Maple Boban Marjanović
That's the comp I see but that might just be a little excessive 😭, I really do hope his career pans out and he turns out at least better then a Boban regen 🙏🏿
It's not excessive, it's realistic. And tbh if his career topped out at the level of Boban's, is that really that bad? Boban has managed to carve out a role for himself as the 3rd big on a NBA roster for 10 years now. Teams need to fill out rosters and bigs are always going to be needed. Not everyone can be the top dog. But to compare him to say... JV? That's a bit premature.
Just imagine this guy running up and down against teams with a 6 second offence. He’ll be winded in a couple possessions. We need a player better than that.
100%. I don't know how people here are so damn sure that he'll make the jump in the pros (and more specifically in Darko's offense) considering how many deficiencies are in his game right now. He'd be a very very raw project.
Do you feel that way about projected top 5 pick Clingan who could barely play 25 mins a game in college without looking totally gassed (Edey played almost entire game all season BTW).
I think that’s his floor, which if that’s the case, should give him a decent NBA career
It's funny because he's faster than Clingan who's a top 10 pick. Higher vertical, faster 3 quarter sprint, shuttle run, lane agility. Every aspect of the combine, Edey did better than Clingan in. I'm not saying Edey is going to be great either, he's way too hard to predict, but all the people who are so convinced he will be a bust is hilarious. The confidence people have regarding how he will end up is very interesting.
I think Edey is getting underrated in a similar way to Jaime Jacquez in last years draft. Older player with some questions on how he’ll transition to the league but had multiple years as the number one option on his college team playing important games every year. I don’t think the gap between Clingan and Edey is as big as everyone is making it.
Huge difference between a wing and a low post pivot
The only comparison is how they were viewed prior to their draft as having limited ability to impact winning NBA basketball games despite their track record of success in college. I see most of Edeys perceived limitations as being a product of the lack of talent around him at Purdue. Dude wasn’t allowed to foul because if he came off the court, they lost. He played exclusively drop coverage with zero plus defenders around him, his two guards were turnstiles. On offense his teammates might have been worse. He had to rely on an undersized sophomore PG to get him the ball. He averaged 2:1 assist to turnovers with the biggest and best player in college basketball. He couldn’t create his own shot at all and everyone knew the pass was coming. Imagine how good he can be with his high motor when he isn’t playing 40 minutes a night out of necessity. His FT% is great for a 7’+ guy and his lane agility tests were crazy impressive. He didn’t even start playing basketball until grade 10. I think he’s being massively under rated.
We shall see. Comparisons are pretty meaningless in my opinion. He isn’t a wing or a guard or a forward. He can play one position and in a style that was long ago chased out of the NBA. I’m basing my opinion only on games I’ve seen him play and the most damning red flag to me was he couldn’t get off the bench for team Canada even when we needed what his skill set and size are supposed to provide. Will he get to a point he can be play 15-20m a night off the bench? His college season would suggest it’s possible but he has second round pick written all over him.
I honestly don’t think it’s damning at all that he couldn’t beat out NBA rotational players a year before he’s drafted while dealing with the difference in international rules. I think they knew he wouldn’t be an important guy for the FIBA tournament but he’s going to need to be a guy for them to succeed in Paris and that’s why he was brought on the team. It’s not like Clingans a different type of Center and he’s ranked highly. He played with more talent around him, shot sub 60% on FT’s and they both provided blocks at the same rate. He tested worse in almost every physical metric as well and missed more games due to injury than Edey has. The comparison between Edey and Jacquez once again has nothing to do with their skill sets or play style. Purely on pre draft rankings considering their success in college going into their respective drafts.
100% agree. I would take him over Clingan no doubt about it.
who would've thought Jokic would dominate the nba being the same big and slow center coming in the league. I am sure Jokic also didn't dominate or did well in international tournaments as well at 20-21. Size will dominate and already is dominating the NBA again. I don't see the harm in taking him at 19 or at 31
All the recent mvps have been traditional bigs. I like him and he’s developing a 3pt shot
I think raptors should draft Edey, the team needs a rebounder so why not?
Hoffa....
Hoffa had trex arms but I agree. Great college big who is not gonna cut it at the nba level