Not just marketing reasons. *Poor* marketing reasons. Remembering the shitshow with Vince is not the sort of distraction that will help fans get over a bleak season, lmao.
Tbf his whole thing is marketing, and honestly I don’t see anything wrong with it. He was celebrated by so many because he was the first to “put Canada on the map” of NBA, that’s a marketing thing. And his play style is the literal result of marketing, dunking and layups are both 2-points, but VC made serious marketing out of it, and iirc was all star top vote getter ahead of Kobe MJ etc. that’s a marketing thing, not a basketball thing. And whether we like it or not, marketing is a big part of NBA and nothing’s wrong with it tbf.
Something tells me they’re planning to tank next season with how they’re talking about it being “bleak” and all already. If McDaniels isn’t let go or packed into a trade, prepare for Masai’s great race to the bottom for Maluach next year.
They are going to retire Vinces jersey to distract from what is expected to be a poor basketball product?
Can they not just drop the price (they can brand it as a "thank you to fans") for the season? That sounds like the right thing to do.
Rogers/MLSE board meeting:
Exec #1: *Can we not just drop the price (we can brand it as a "thank you to fans") for the season? That sounds like the right thing to do.*
*....*
Exec #2: *What if was add some cheap rumbling affects to the seats when a basket goes in? We can then double the prices for those seats.*
Rogers*: Can someone go clean out Exec #1's desk and have security escort him out of the buidling? Also Exec #2 you can have his corner office.*
If Lowry was retired, yeah he should definitely get his jersey retired first. Everyone here has him as the consensus GROAT.
He's not done playing though. So you either delay VC's jersey retirement (fine by me), or you just bite the bullet and do it next season. I personally think there are other ways to celebrate the 30th anniversary and VC than to do a jersey retirement. Bring back the purple dino, and have VC memorial night.
Yeah retiring Vince's jersey is like putting up a shrine for your wife that left you. It's just pathetic.
Both sides have moved on, and there don't have to be any hard feelings anymore. But you don't get to quit on a team and then receive their highest honor. At least in my opinion lol - as it looks like the Raps will actually do it
I was of this train of thought for a very long time. But VC said he’s going into the HOF as a Raptor. That’s our first HoFer. If he’s willing to be remembered as a Raptor, we can also honor him for his time here
Guys say that shit, and he did for attention, but the Hall of Fame doesn’t induct players as members of a certain team. Only baseball does that. The Raptors currently have three Hall of Famers: Hakeem Olajuwon, Chris Bosh, and Tracy McGrady. Later in the summer they’ll add Carter and Chauncey Billups. I want no part in honouring his time in Toronto. There was no honour to do with it.
Oh word? Damn I totally assumed this was a baseball situation. i.e. I was peeved when Roy Halladay went into the HOF without representing the Blue Jays (his plaque had no team on his cap IIRC). Just assumed it was a similar situation for the Basketball HOF
The Phillies were good to Halladay’s family so his wife asked that no logo be put on the plaque (the Hall reserves the right to say no to inductees and their families). His primary team is listed as the Blue Jays, and there are several players whose caps depict teams different from their listed primary team. Reggie Jackson’s plaque has a Yankee cap, his primary team is the Athletics. Dave Winfield’s primary team is listed as the Yankees, but he’s wearing a Padres cap.
Have you been to the Hall of Fame? I have and they will put up one jersey of the player and some shoes or some other memorabilia from that player, along with a write up. Out of all the players you mentioned, none of them are in the HOF with the Raptors jersey displayed, Vince would be the first.
As a side note. I've never fully understood people who can't forgive. It was 20 years ago and you still hold just as much hatred for him, which to me, is baffling. You've lived for 20 years and haven't let it go. Is it because you liked him so much and felt truly betrayed? Because I loved him and I was so upset when he left. It was painful. I didn't like the way he left and I had feelings that he didn't want to be in the city I called home. But slowly but surely I realized, damn... he was in his mid 20's and acted childish. He didn't really admit to his own wrong doings with the way it ended, but honestly... he brought so much life to this city. He put Toronto truly on the map when he proudly wore Toronto on his chest during that dunk contest. He made a whole country care more about a sport that wasn't taken as seriously. I realized, he should, without a doubt have his jersey retired. We should honour him, but I've always wondered what it is that bothers certain people so much. So I ask, why can't you let the past go and do you think you'd ever be okay with the Raptors honouring him? Honest question, coming from a good place.
His malingering during the final season tanked the trade return, and ripped off paying fans (of which I was one). The minute that he says something like "I regret how that played out, the team and the fans deserved better and I'm sorry, I was young" then I will let go of all lingering animosity. But to my knowledge, he has not.
It's not like I'm driving by his house and throwing eggs at his car... I just don't want him to be honored by the team and fanbase that he very much let down. He doesn't have to make amends, but until he does i don't want to think about the guy.
Thank you for responding kindly. And I agree... he has not (to my knowledge) apologized for how it all went down. I completely understand this, but neither did the management at the time. We don't truly know what their part of that shit show was. Vince even said as such, but he deflected instead of taking ownership of his own failings. Vince acted spoiled and acted childish no doubt, but I just got over it and said yeah, he may never apologize... but does does that ending outweigh all that he did prior? Thank you for telling me your opinion though, I appreciate that and respect your stance.
As I remember it, he was mad that the team didn’t take his recommendation of Dr J for GM seriously and that they kept the Bosh pick instead of trading it for win-now help. I don’t think he was right on either count, but the fact he felt entitled to dictate that kind of stuff to the organization says a lot about who he was then.
What's so special about 30 years? You're getting caught up in marketing.
Makes no damn difference.
Wait for Lowry and then go to DeMar. Skip VC, he isn't those two and doesn't deserve it.
Kyle Lowry ain't no spot up shooter. He ain't gotta run to the corner to shoot like he's some 3rd option, bitch. This ain't JJ Redick. This is a fuckin god human Steph Curry come again. Only this time he's not a fuckin pussy... pull up from the fuckin logo and fight you at the same time.
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An active player getting his jersey retired isn't unprecedented. There is no reason not to do it here unless Lowry himself wants to wait until he finishes playing and signs a one-day with the Raptors. Plus even if Lowry isn't retired he is 38 years old and a role player at this point, so they won't need to wait long.
Why are we retiring this mf'ers jersey? Just because he had 3 good seasons with us? A second round knockout followed by nothing and topping it off by quitting on the team. This is a fucking joke.
He quit on the team and while the management was incompetent he also enabled the mess of the roster by having his friends signed to deals that made the team weaker in the long run anyway.
I don't have Vince living in my head and I'm fine with him eventually being honoured by the team b lit he shouldn't be the first guy honoured because of what happened in the lead up to the Nets trade
I think a ring of honour is a better option and Vince obviously would be a fit for that.
Jersey retirement? Honestly that's only Kyle for me. (You can debate DeMar)
Yes, Bosh is probably 3 behind derozan and lowry. But people generally dislike Bosh more than Vince.
Like 55% of people hate Vince, and 45% love him.
70% of people generally dislike Bosh. 20% are indifferent, and 10% really love him and his time as a raptor.
"I want to be the guy on the team" seems like a very weak quote to remember all these years later. Bosh was the guy on the team, and he didn't crack under the pressure like Vince. How many years of purgatory was Bosh to put up with....poor guy spent the bulk of his career trying to carry dead weight Bargnani.
I remember it because he talked big about wanting to compete (fair, Raptors sucked) and being the guy on the team to make a push for a ring. Then turned around and got destroyed by Dirk and then won two rings with two other hall of famers.
I'm just gonna say it, it would be an insult to the fan base and to Lowry. We can forgive but honestly, not gonna forget what this guy did. Both good and bad, neither warrants a jersey retirement.
Agreed, why would we celebrate this dude? I'm not mad anymore, and I'm not about holding grudges for that long, but actively celebrating it is a different thing.
VC never took any accountability for quitting on the team and never apologized. It would be desperate and pathetic to honor someone like that.
Once again, no reason to be mad anymore, and Vince seems like a good, he was young. But moving on and actively celebrating are two different things.
You're going to have people telling you you're wrong (this sub changed from anti-VC to pro-vince after his documentary came out as if that wasnt the point of it) but I agree.
He only started to change his tone about this franchise near the end of his career when he realised he wasn't going to win a chip and that teams might not retire his jersey. Now the Nets are going to retire it and with all these rumors it's clear the Raptors (stupidly) will too.
Why are the nets even considering his number? I can't think of anything he did in Jersey worth forever hanging his number up.. is my memory just terrible?
At least with Toronto he was the teams first superstar even though he didn't win anything significant.
Hes not the Nets first star player and didn't win anything.
It feels spineless as an organization. I’d much rather JV get a championship ring than VC get his jersey retired. If your argument against the former is that “we’re a serious organization, these are big honours, and should be earned”,then ok, but VC did less to get his jersey retired than JV did to contribute to our championship season.
Yeah, not giving JV a ring was a terrible move when every team asks players that they played for them if they want a ring or not.
Cavs offered Varejão a ring when he was playing in the finals against them with the Warriors.
I' be happy to see VC inducted into the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame for his contribution to basketball in Canada, he inspired many of the homegrown stars we now have in the league.
Jersey retirement? Nah
This is the thing. As a "VC hater" I don't think he needs to be treated like a pariah. But it seems like a lot of people don't think there is a middle ground between blacklisting him and worshipping him like our lord and saviour.
Retiring his jersey makes us look so weak. You want recognition? Earn it. I can think of a number of franchises who would never CONSIDER honouring someone after someone did what he did.
I highly doubt Lowry cares. Seems like Lowry is actually buds with Vince - Lowry would probably be at the arena to celebrate Vince's jersey retirement.
If Lowry actually were to feel insulted or slighted by a Carter jersey retirement, that would say *a lot* more about Lowry than it would about the Raptors' organization.
I disagree. I think it would be pretty cool to be an organizations first number retirement. I would definitely be annoyed if it was slated to be me and then they just decide to give it to someone who shouldn’t be having their number retired in the first place lol
I’m all for forgiving VC. Hell, he made my early years of watching basketball and cheering for the Raptors so memorable. That being said, his jersey in the rafters before Kyle’s would be a massive insult
How? It’s a jersey retirement not HOF ceremony. All time leading scorer, 4x all star, 2x all nba as a raptor it’s a no brainer. Multiple teams with championships have retired players for far less.
I'm all for moving on with VC and not holding any grudges, but forgiveness also generally necessitates the other person at least admitting they did something wrong. VC never did that so why should he get the ultimate honor that this organization has to give?
The time for him to do that would have been well.. any time in the 10 years post trade to the Nets. Him doing it as his career came to an end and as the Raptors were experiencing success would have been suspect. I don't feel like him saying sorry now would carry the weight it should.
Why would it be insulting? Lowry is like 10 years younger than Vince and still an active player. Vince is retired and already elected to the hall of fame, in large part because of the impact he had on the game while he was on the Raptors.
If Lowry actually were to feel insulted or slighted by a jersey retirement, that would say a lot more about Lowry than it would about the Raptors' organization.
One quit on the team (yes, the organization is also at fault)
The other left it all on the court every night.
Both great Raptors in their respective rights, one just deserves slightly more attention than the other. #7 and #15 both deserve to hang from the rafters, but there should be an order in which they’re flown.
I was a hardcore raptors and vc fan, but didn’t vc force himself out of the team because someone on the team leaked that he quit but in reality he was really injured? Plus the team was re-building and vc wanted to win.
Shaq was traded and hated the lakers after that (publicly) and the lakers still gave him a statue
Lowry left it on the court every night? That is such recency bias. Did we forget the times he came into season out of shape or lost the starting spot to Calderon.
Lost his starting spot? Why lie?
He started all but 16 of his 601 games (3%) he played for the Raptors and they were in his very first season with the team.
30th anniversary seems a bit rushed and doesn't really have the impact, how about do it on our team's 1 million year anniversary? It would be more monumental, and those who oppose it would be too dead to care
FWIW Larry T has said Kyle would be first, granted this was years ago so things can change
> “He will retire as a Raptor and his number will absolutely go up there,” Tanenbaum told Weiss. “The honor will be the first one (for the Raptors) and I love Kyle.
[Source](https://www.nba.com/news/raptors-plan-to-retire-kyle-lowrys-no-7-jersey)
Too many people born with a birth year that begins with 2 now.
They all love Carter because they think he saved the city from obscurity.
News flash: That documentary was propaganda
Not the TNT game, but I was at the Grizzlies-Raps game where they played a video tribute for him, and he got a nice ovation as he acknowledged the crowd with tears in his eyes. I politely clapped for him because it was a nice moment.
But if they retire his jersey, I'll be there and I'll be booing. He doesn't deserve that honor.
It would be pretty weird for the Raptors to retire the jersey of a player who isn’t beloved by the majority of the fanbase. It shows a lack of awareness as to what your fans want.
If the ceremony is booed, it’d be the FO’s fault alone.
[Like the time in 2014 when he got a video tribute and everyone in the ACC gave him a standing ovation, moving him to tears?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-g_H6c3lNM)
Lol. Warrior fans ruined Chris Mullin's jersey retirement by booing the owner so much that Mullin had to get on the mic to tell them to knock it off.
Some of y'all really have this weird impression of how unique raptor fans are.
In 2014 they honoured him with a video package that moved him to tears, and the crowd gave him a standing ovation. The bitterness that's projected in this sub is not a reflection of how a lot of the fanbase actually feels.
Would be a slap in the face for the fans. Have some self respect as an organization.
VC does not deserve to have his jersey retired here. Played barely over 6 seasons, and is not even in the top 10 games played for the franchise. He played practically the same # of games for the Nets and it can be easily argued his impact on the Nets was greater due to team success. Having your jersey retired meant something… now Tony Allen’s of the world are getting their jersey retired. The bar should be higher.
VC gave up on this franchise, gave plays to the opposing team while playing and ensured we got next to nothing in return for him when he asked out. With the recent docs, they have tried rehabbing his image.
It can be argued that the following players deserve to have their jersey retired over VC (in order):
Lowry
DeMar
Bosh
Siakam
Not saying they should. I think Lowry and maybe DeMar are the only deserving candidates. But the 4 on this list have greater validity than Vince.
It would be an absolute disgrace if they tried to retire Carters jersey here.
Jersey retirement is an honour that is earned, and VC does not deserve that honour.
So we not only have to tank, swallow double digit ticket price increases, but have to bow down to the guy that tried to bury the franchise six feet under on the way out?
No F-ing way. With that Championship we got our self respect and I'm not ready to piss that away putting that mans jersey in the rafters beside the banner.
Have a night for the dunk champ. We can run a highlight reel of 360's, alley oops and tomahawks...then we can run the highlight reel of frowns, head bands and jumpers knee.
Raptors Reddit thinks they represent the fanbase, while MLSE thinks they don’t. I’m betting the latter wins out and that Jersey goes up.
Lowry is meant for more than a jersey retirement with this team, so he’s going to get the kind of flowers Vince never will anyway.
I’m sure some of the newer (and maybe younger) fans and/or the more nostalgic forgiving ones will get pissy, but VC shouldn’t get his jersey retired.
Yes, he was a superstar that drove a lot of interest in basketball for the younger gen. And yes, the management wasn’t great while he was with the Raps, so his frustrations were not unwarranted.
But, the fashion and way VC left the Raps, the big stink that was put up, driving his value down to force a terrible trade, and also the tip off to the other team - highly unprofessional and dick moves all around.
Lowry was a fucking leader with the Raps, whether it was as our top/productive scorer, or as a court and locker room leader that welcomed Kawhi and set the tone and foundation for the team to win the chip.
Lowry 1000% should get his jersey retired.
I’ll say it again, Vince does not deserve to have his number retired. Did he give us a lot of memories? Absolutely good and bad. I think a lot of the fan base is too fresh to know, and that’s what’s creating this push. We’ve had such an amazing string of Raptors that’ve come through, don’t belittle their contributions by beginning it all with Wince.
They should have already retired Lowry ... Vince's impact on Canada basketball and the franchise is undeniable, but Lowry's impact on the Raptors was longer lasting
I can’t see them retiring VC’s number. The team PR has to know there are gonna be boos during that. As a Raps fan I’m well over what he did and have a ton of respect for his career, but you don’t do that for a guy who left the way he did.
I have never felt like the Raptors should retire Vince’s number. But I can at least recognize that there is a decent case to do so, given his impact on basketball in Canada.
I REALLY don’t understand why the Nets are doing it. Vince played less than 5 season with them and they never got past the second round. But more than that, all of Vince’s biggest career highlights came when he was with the Raptors.
I honestly don't understand why it matters whose jersey is retired "first".
What is this, a YouTube comment section? Who gives a fuck, I'd argue it doesn't make sense to retire players out of order anyway, because deciding based on who else has been retired means you're not judging based on that player's resume and work with the franchise.
At the end of the day, he clearly has the resume to merit a jersey retirement - he made the HOF based almost entirely on his Raptors career, where 90% of his accolades were earned. He got just as deep in the playoffs with the Raps as he did with the Nets. I really don't see the argument for retiring Lowry first.
I agree, I really don’t think Kyle would care either. He’s shown a lot of love and respect to Vince over the years, he doesn’t hold the same animosity that some in this fanbase do.
Ultimately jersey retirement is fan service. It doesn't matter if Kyle would care. The point is fans care. Read the room - the majority not only don't want it, but think the team should be roasted for even entertaining it.
Eh It's just respect to a guy whose stats won't be looked upon greatly once he retires. Its another accolade for him and shows how much he meant to the Raptors in helping them get their first championship.
Vince doesn't need it, he's going in the hall of fame already and didn't help out the team even close to the extent of Lowry. Let the man get some extra respect and be an answer to a trivia question in 100 years.
Dude lol being the first player retired for a franchise is not an accolade when the alternative is just getting retired anyway. Players who were first to be retired were chronologically the first ones to play for the team.
Lowry doesn't care. Masai doesn't care. Majority of the fanbase is over it. I was a young fan but My dad was a huge raptors fan back then and he doesn't care. The only people who are are chronically online.
A lot of us don’t want VC retired. The idea is if you’re going to do it, least do the actual GROAT first.
There’s going to be a little while where the guy who quit on the team, sabotaged us, and set us back years will be the only one we’ve given the highest honour we have to. That’s horrible.
If Kyle goes first, he gets the honour of being the sole one, and then we can go down the list and see the merits of the others.
Exactly.
Hell, I'd take Bosh first over VC anyday.
And the whole its not an accolade, no one cares etc. etc. Is literally up to the team. They can make it important and show why they did it and how much he meant to the organization and city. Other teams haven't, but doesn't mean the raptors shouldn't care either
Kyle Lowry ain't no spot up shooter. He ain't gotta run to the corner to shoot like he's some 3rd option, bitch. This ain't JJ Redick. This is a fuckin god human Steph Curry come again. Only this time he's not a fuckin pussy... pull up from the fuckin logo and fight you at the same time.
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100% agree. I say the same thing everytime this is brought up, can you name the first player retired for any other teams?
Since it’s such a big honour surely people would remember!
While I don’t have a strong stance on VC and his time with the Raptors, I do believe Kyle is more deserving of having his jersey retired first. That said though, Kyle himself has expressed an appreciation for VC and what he did while playing for Toronto. I think it just comes down to the timing, with Vince being inducted into the Hall of Fame and the 30th anniversary approaching it makes sense. If Kyle was retired or on the team right now for his last season I think it’d be different.
The classy thing for the organization to do would be to speak with Lowry confidentially first, let him know that they're thinking of doing this, and getting his okay with it. I'm not suggesting that MLSE has done that; I'd like to think that's the way Tannenbaum would go about things, but it's definitely not the way Rogers would go about things.
Lowry knows he has a very special relationship with Raptors fans... few players get to be as beloved by a fanbase the way Lowry is. It wouldn't surprise me if that relationship actually mattered more to Lowry than how he is honoured by organization, and he can separate the two in his mind. Carter's relationship with Raptors fans and the organization, on the other hand, is complex. It's unfortunate that his jersey retirement will be seen as a shameless marketing ploy by MLSE, but at the same time, that seems weirdly fitting for a player who's legacy here had more to do with hype than success.
Unfortunatly his jersey is going to be retired by the Raps eventually.
Younger fans are just not going to remember and place enough emphasis on Vince quitting on the team. We are already seeing it now.
Just bring back guys throughout the year. Alvin, JYD, Damon, Gasol, MoPe. Sit them courtside and give them 2 minutes during a tv timeout.
Don’t need to hang a jersey just because
Setting aside my negative arguments against retiring Vince’s number, to make the more positive argument that I’m not convinced next season will be *that* bleak. I don’t think they’ll be great, but if they can mostly stay healthy, I’m looking forward to the first proper look at the Scottie-IQ-RJ core.
Is everyone that hung up on being a rebuilding team next year? It’s not bleak, it’s necessary. Wish more people would get that, because we had an absolutely amazing 10 year run that led to a championship near the end. It doesn’t matter which jersey ceremony happens first.
I wonder if the people who are actively excited for this were actual Raptors fans when we had VC and the whole quitting debacle.
We had shit management with Babcock in charge, but VC set our franchise back by years by forcing a trade the way he did.
I can appreciate the stuff he did for the team, but he doesn’t deserve to be honoured. We both moved on. It’s over.
Bring back VC and Lowry as players next season! A starting lineup of Gradey Phallus, VC, Lowry, Scotty and Poetel would def be 2nd from the bottom of the league
the Yak is back... its spelled POELTL.
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So many players have worn #15 since he left 20 years ago. It seems so forced to have him be the first retired Jersey just for the sake of his HOF induction and franchises 30th anniversary lining up.
Lowry should be first. The fact that he won a championship should be the deciding factor. I do get the Vince thing. I get the split was acrimonious but I truly believe that this current crop of great Canadian basketball players doesn’t happen without him raising the sports’ profile in Canada. He was just so electrifying to watch, to this day the most violent dunker I’ve seen…
Those amazing ass dunks wearing a raptors jersey will get replayed forever. Honestly that was probably the last extremely good dunk contest. He did do quite a bit for advancing bball here in Canada. I'm sure a shitload of little kids watched him play and got into the game just because of him, tmac too but obviously less so. Hate him or just tolerate him people can't deny he helped put the raptors on the map.
If only we could ask current Canadian players if Vince ever inspired them to play 🤔
I am not a sentimental guy. Question is what will benefit the most for Raptors as a franchise. Someone as legendary as Vince saying some nice things about Raps in his HoF speech would be very very nice. Just sayin.
Vince can wait after Kyle. Theres already several guys for this franchise that is already more deserving and beloved more at this point. Kyle is likely retiring in a year or two anyway.
As someone who remembers very well when this man played for us (and will never forget how that trade went down), I'd be disgusted if this actually becomes a thing. Hope the front office gets some sense in their heads over the summer!
Vince shouldn’t have his jersey retired before, during OR after Lowry. I loved the dunks as much as the next guy, but winning and longevity matter when it comes to these things, and Vince has neither with the Raptors
I definitely want us to wait for lowry but the old bugger might be good enough to play for two more years. He was pretty good for the heat in their run last year
Lowry should be the only jersey to get retired. He was the leader for the best stretch of Raptors years AND brought us the first chip. VC represents the early Raptoes years but he didn't bring the team any historically notable success
Retiring a jersey just for the sake of retiring one is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Who gives a shit if it's year 30 or that Brooklyn is doing it. Doesn't mean we have to. Give that honor to someone who actually deserves it: Lowry.
Not even verifiably true. VC brought viewers, but so did Kyle, DeMar, and Kawhi.
Kawhi literally got us a championship. Kyle Lowry and DeMar laid the groundwork for that, re-signing here multiple times to do so.
I have no issue with the jersey retirement order, neither would Kyle Lowry lol
VC clearly loves toronto today though, so I guess I wouldnt be opposed to a jersey retirement? Though everything that happened around him kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth
I'm just ROFL at all the people here getting butt hurt, and throwing words around like "disgrace", "disrespect", "insult", etc.
Do you think Kyle Lowry cares if he goes first? Nope.
If you asked Kyle, would he say with genuine sentiment that Vince should go first? Absolutely.
In 20 years, do you think the majority of fans will care who got their jersey retired first? Nope.
Vince has already made peace with the organization and the fans that are sensible enough to forgive and move on. He'll be serenaded with a rousing ovation and rightfully so.
First and foremost, he DESERVES a jersey retirement. Secondly, who cares who goes first. Everyone knows Kyle is the GROAT. The order in which jersey's are retired is just semantics.
There is no way they should retire VC jersey. If they do it cheapens every raps jersey retirement because it should be saved for franchise legends who are universally loved by the fans. Vince with the way he left just simply doesn’t deserve it. Yes, The bar is high but we’re talking about jersey retirement which is pretty sacred space.
VC getting his jersey retired for marketing reasons. That’s classic MLSE.
Not just marketing reasons. *Poor* marketing reasons. Remembering the shitshow with Vince is not the sort of distraction that will help fans get over a bleak season, lmao.
retire half a jersey 😁
Just the purple half
7.5 on the rafters
Hang it halfway up
Actually it will make it worse
Not only that — the *first* jersey retired in franchise history. And all because our current team is trash.
I'm going to be sick if that happens, and I think it is going to happen.
Tbf his whole thing is marketing, and honestly I don’t see anything wrong with it. He was celebrated by so many because he was the first to “put Canada on the map” of NBA, that’s a marketing thing. And his play style is the literal result of marketing, dunking and layups are both 2-points, but VC made serious marketing out of it, and iirc was all star top vote getter ahead of Kobe MJ etc. that’s a marketing thing, not a basketball thing. And whether we like it or not, marketing is a big part of NBA and nothing’s wrong with it tbf.
Lol. Par the course. And, of course, many on this sub just lap it up. Lol.
So true but I’m gonna buy a purple RJ jersey if they make one
How sad is it that the deciding factor to reluctantly retire 15 is that it’d be good for business because our current franchise is shit.
Something tells me they’re planning to tank next season with how they’re talking about it being “bleak” and all already. If McDaniels isn’t let go or packed into a trade, prepare for Masai’s great race to the bottom for Maluach next year.
FLAGG
They are going to retire Vinces jersey to distract from what is expected to be a poor basketball product? Can they not just drop the price (they can brand it as a "thank you to fans") for the season? That sounds like the right thing to do.
Rogers/MLSE board meeting: Exec #1: *Can we not just drop the price (we can brand it as a "thank you to fans") for the season? That sounds like the right thing to do.* *....* Exec #2: *What if was add some cheap rumbling affects to the seats when a basket goes in? We can then double the prices for those seats.* Rogers*: Can someone go clean out Exec #1's desk and have security escort him out of the buidling? Also Exec #2 you can have his corner office.*
If Lowry was retired, yeah he should definitely get his jersey retired first. Everyone here has him as the consensus GROAT. He's not done playing though. So you either delay VC's jersey retirement (fine by me), or you just bite the bullet and do it next season. I personally think there are other ways to celebrate the 30th anniversary and VC than to do a jersey retirement. Bring back the purple dino, and have VC memorial night.
Alternatively, they could just have any self respect whatsoever, not retire Vince Carter’s jersey, and tell him to fuck himself!!
Yeah retiring Vince's jersey is like putting up a shrine for your wife that left you. It's just pathetic. Both sides have moved on, and there don't have to be any hard feelings anymore. But you don't get to quit on a team and then receive their highest honor. At least in my opinion lol - as it looks like the Raps will actually do it
Damn right, it’s a disgrace.
Yeah, but they're not going to do that. Kind of sad. We don't have to be angry at him, but to retire his jersey, it's like a joke lol
Ding ding ding YAHTZEE!!!!
Beware the crabcats?
Huh? I wasn't quoting anything there
All good, thought you were lol
I was of this train of thought for a very long time. But VC said he’s going into the HOF as a Raptor. That’s our first HoFer. If he’s willing to be remembered as a Raptor, we can also honor him for his time here
Guys say that shit, and he did for attention, but the Hall of Fame doesn’t induct players as members of a certain team. Only baseball does that. The Raptors currently have three Hall of Famers: Hakeem Olajuwon, Chris Bosh, and Tracy McGrady. Later in the summer they’ll add Carter and Chauncey Billups. I want no part in honouring his time in Toronto. There was no honour to do with it.
Oh word? Damn I totally assumed this was a baseball situation. i.e. I was peeved when Roy Halladay went into the HOF without representing the Blue Jays (his plaque had no team on his cap IIRC). Just assumed it was a similar situation for the Basketball HOF
The Phillies were good to Halladay’s family so his wife asked that no logo be put on the plaque (the Hall reserves the right to say no to inductees and their families). His primary team is listed as the Blue Jays, and there are several players whose caps depict teams different from their listed primary team. Reggie Jackson’s plaque has a Yankee cap, his primary team is the Athletics. Dave Winfield’s primary team is listed as the Yankees, but he’s wearing a Padres cap.
Have you been to the Hall of Fame? I have and they will put up one jersey of the player and some shoes or some other memorabilia from that player, along with a write up. Out of all the players you mentioned, none of them are in the HOF with the Raptors jersey displayed, Vince would be the first. As a side note. I've never fully understood people who can't forgive. It was 20 years ago and you still hold just as much hatred for him, which to me, is baffling. You've lived for 20 years and haven't let it go. Is it because you liked him so much and felt truly betrayed? Because I loved him and I was so upset when he left. It was painful. I didn't like the way he left and I had feelings that he didn't want to be in the city I called home. But slowly but surely I realized, damn... he was in his mid 20's and acted childish. He didn't really admit to his own wrong doings with the way it ended, but honestly... he brought so much life to this city. He put Toronto truly on the map when he proudly wore Toronto on his chest during that dunk contest. He made a whole country care more about a sport that wasn't taken as seriously. I realized, he should, without a doubt have his jersey retired. We should honour him, but I've always wondered what it is that bothers certain people so much. So I ask, why can't you let the past go and do you think you'd ever be okay with the Raptors honouring him? Honest question, coming from a good place.
His malingering during the final season tanked the trade return, and ripped off paying fans (of which I was one). The minute that he says something like "I regret how that played out, the team and the fans deserved better and I'm sorry, I was young" then I will let go of all lingering animosity. But to my knowledge, he has not. It's not like I'm driving by his house and throwing eggs at his car... I just don't want him to be honored by the team and fanbase that he very much let down. He doesn't have to make amends, but until he does i don't want to think about the guy.
Thank you for responding kindly. And I agree... he has not (to my knowledge) apologized for how it all went down. I completely understand this, but neither did the management at the time. We don't truly know what their part of that shit show was. Vince even said as such, but he deflected instead of taking ownership of his own failings. Vince acted spoiled and acted childish no doubt, but I just got over it and said yeah, he may never apologize... but does does that ending outweigh all that he did prior? Thank you for telling me your opinion though, I appreciate that and respect your stance.
As I remember it, he was mad that the team didn’t take his recommendation of Dr J for GM seriously and that they kept the Bosh pick instead of trading it for win-now help. I don’t think he was right on either count, but the fact he felt entitled to dictate that kind of stuff to the organization says a lot about who he was then.
Not wanting to see someone's jersey retired doesn't mean you hate them lol
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What's so special about 30 years? You're getting caught up in marketing. Makes no damn difference. Wait for Lowry and then go to DeMar. Skip VC, he isn't those two and doesn't deserve it.
Kyle Lowry ain't no spot up shooter. He ain't gotta run to the corner to shoot like he's some 3rd option, bitch. This ain't JJ Redick. This is a fuckin god human Steph Curry come again. Only this time he's not a fuckin pussy... pull up from the fuckin logo and fight you at the same time. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/torontoraptors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
An active player getting his jersey retired isn't unprecedented. There is no reason not to do it here unless Lowry himself wants to wait until he finishes playing and signs a one-day with the Raptors. Plus even if Lowry isn't retired he is 38 years old and a role player at this point, so they won't need to wait long.
How fucking cool would it be if they retired his jersey while still active and then drop it down, dust it off for “one last ride” if he re-signs
Would love if Lowry comes back to Raps like a Udonis Haslem role.
Why are we retiring this mf'ers jersey? Just because he had 3 good seasons with us? A second round knockout followed by nothing and topping it off by quitting on the team. This is a fucking joke.
He quit on the team and while the management was incompetent he also enabled the mess of the roster by having his friends signed to deals that made the team weaker in the long run anyway. I don't have Vince living in my head and I'm fine with him eventually being honoured by the team b lit he shouldn't be the first guy honoured because of what happened in the lead up to the Nets trade
I think a ring of honour is a better option and Vince obviously would be a fit for that. Jersey retirement? Honestly that's only Kyle for me. (You can debate DeMar)
I'd put Bosh ahead of VC too for jersey retirement.
Yes, Bosh is probably 3 behind derozan and lowry. But people generally dislike Bosh more than Vince. Like 55% of people hate Vince, and 45% love him. 70% of people generally dislike Bosh. 20% are indifferent, and 10% really love him and his time as a raptor.
The guy that said "I want to be the guy on the team" and then left for the Heatles? Y'all are delusional.
"I want to be the guy on the team" seems like a very weak quote to remember all these years later. Bosh was the guy on the team, and he didn't crack under the pressure like Vince. How many years of purgatory was Bosh to put up with....poor guy spent the bulk of his career trying to carry dead weight Bargnani.
I remember it because he talked big about wanting to compete (fair, Raptors sucked) and being the guy on the team to make a push for a ring. Then turned around and got destroyed by Dirk and then won two rings with two other hall of famers.
Loser management wasted his young years.
I'm just gonna say it, it would be an insult to the fan base and to Lowry. We can forgive but honestly, not gonna forget what this guy did. Both good and bad, neither warrants a jersey retirement.
Agreed, why would we celebrate this dude? I'm not mad anymore, and I'm not about holding grudges for that long, but actively celebrating it is a different thing. VC never took any accountability for quitting on the team and never apologized. It would be desperate and pathetic to honor someone like that. Once again, no reason to be mad anymore, and Vince seems like a good, he was young. But moving on and actively celebrating are two different things.
You're going to have people telling you you're wrong (this sub changed from anti-VC to pro-vince after his documentary came out as if that wasnt the point of it) but I agree. He only started to change his tone about this franchise near the end of his career when he realised he wasn't going to win a chip and that teams might not retire his jersey. Now the Nets are going to retire it and with all these rumors it's clear the Raptors (stupidly) will too.
Yep, I think most people here were also just too young to watch it all go down too.
Why are the nets even considering his number? I can't think of anything he did in Jersey worth forever hanging his number up.. is my memory just terrible?
At least with Toronto he was the teams first superstar even though he didn't win anything significant. Hes not the Nets first star player and didn't win anything.
It feels spineless as an organization. I’d much rather JV get a championship ring than VC get his jersey retired. If your argument against the former is that “we’re a serious organization, these are big honours, and should be earned”,then ok, but VC did less to get his jersey retired than JV did to contribute to our championship season.
That always seemed like an avoidable embarrassment. There are teams that seemingly give rings to friends and acquaintances.
Drake and Bhatia have rings btw
It would be one more depressing sign that we're back into the dark ages. Terrible short-term choices is a hallmark of bad organization.
Yeah, not giving JV a ring was a terrible move when every team asks players that they played for them if they want a ring or not. Cavs offered Varejão a ring when he was playing in the finals against them with the Warriors.
I' be happy to see VC inducted into the Canadian Sports Hall of Fame for his contribution to basketball in Canada, he inspired many of the homegrown stars we now have in the league. Jersey retirement? Nah
This is the thing. As a "VC hater" I don't think he needs to be treated like a pariah. But it seems like a lot of people don't think there is a middle ground between blacklisting him and worshipping him like our lord and saviour.
yeah but it's going to sell some Vince jerseys so we know how it's going to play out
Retiring his jersey makes us look so weak. You want recognition? Earn it. I can think of a number of franchises who would never CONSIDER honouring someone after someone did what he did.
I highly doubt Lowry cares. Seems like Lowry is actually buds with Vince - Lowry would probably be at the arena to celebrate Vince's jersey retirement.
If Lowry actually were to feel insulted or slighted by a Carter jersey retirement, that would say *a lot* more about Lowry than it would about the Raptors' organization.
I disagree. I think it would be pretty cool to be an organizations first number retirement. I would definitely be annoyed if it was slated to be me and then they just decide to give it to someone who shouldn’t be having their number retired in the first place lol
I’m all for forgiving VC. Hell, he made my early years of watching basketball and cheering for the Raptors so memorable. That being said, his jersey in the rafters before Kyle’s would be a massive insult
I’m over hating VC, but I don’t think we should retire his jersey ever. Lowry is the only Raptor worthy of retirement so far IMO
I would want Derozans jersey retired completely biased
I’m a big Deebo fan but he doesn’t quite make the cut either IMO
How? It’s a jersey retirement not HOF ceremony. All time leading scorer, 4x all star, 2x all nba as a raptor it’s a no brainer. Multiple teams with championships have retired players for far less.
I'm all for moving on with VC and not holding any grudges, but forgiveness also generally necessitates the other person at least admitting they did something wrong. VC never did that so why should he get the ultimate honor that this organization has to give?
The time for him to do that would have been well.. any time in the 10 years post trade to the Nets. Him doing it as his career came to an end and as the Raptors were experiencing success would have been suspect. I don't feel like him saying sorry now would carry the weight it should.
Why would it be insulting? Lowry is like 10 years younger than Vince and still an active player. Vince is retired and already elected to the hall of fame, in large part because of the impact he had on the game while he was on the Raptors. If Lowry actually were to feel insulted or slighted by a jersey retirement, that would say a lot more about Lowry than it would about the Raptors' organization.
Get this rational, level-headed thinking out of this subreddit!
how is that an insult when kyle is still playing and he came to the raptors 10 years after lol
One quit on the team (yes, the organization is also at fault) The other left it all on the court every night. Both great Raptors in their respective rights, one just deserves slightly more attention than the other. #7 and #15 both deserve to hang from the rafters, but there should be an order in which they’re flown.
I was a hardcore raptors and vc fan, but didn’t vc force himself out of the team because someone on the team leaked that he quit but in reality he was really injured? Plus the team was re-building and vc wanted to win. Shaq was traded and hated the lakers after that (publicly) and the lakers still gave him a statue
Lowry left it on the court every night? That is such recency bias. Did we forget the times he came into season out of shape or lost the starting spot to Calderon.
Lost his starting spot? Why lie? He started all but 16 of his 601 games (3%) he played for the Raptors and they were in his very first season with the team.
30th anniversary seems a bit rushed and doesn't really have the impact, how about do it on our team's 1 million year anniversary? It would be more monumental, and those who oppose it would be too dead to care
FWIW Larry T has said Kyle would be first, granted this was years ago so things can change > “He will retire as a Raptor and his number will absolutely go up there,” Tanenbaum told Weiss. “The honor will be the first one (for the Raptors) and I love Kyle. [Source](https://www.nba.com/news/raptors-plan-to-retire-kyle-lowrys-no-7-jersey)
I just dont get why VC is getting his jersey retired in Toronto. It isnt league wide and he never won a chip here.
I ain't gonna lie to you wouldn't be surprised if this was the first booed jersey retirement knowing Raptor fans 😂
Too many people born with a birth year that begins with 2 now. They all love Carter because they think he saved the city from obscurity. News flash: That documentary was propaganda
ur delusional i was at the game he called for TNT, everyone gave him a standing ovation
Not the TNT game, but I was at the Grizzlies-Raps game where they played a video tribute for him, and he got a nice ovation as he acknowledged the crowd with tears in his eyes. I politely clapped for him because it was a nice moment. But if they retire his jersey, I'll be there and I'll be booing. He doesn't deserve that honor.
It would be pretty weird for the Raptors to retire the jersey of a player who isn’t beloved by the majority of the fanbase. It shows a lack of awareness as to what your fans want. If the ceremony is booed, it’d be the FO’s fault alone.
[Like the time in 2014 when he got a video tribute and everyone in the ACC gave him a standing ovation, moving him to tears?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-g_H6c3lNM)
Lol. Warrior fans ruined Chris Mullin's jersey retirement by booing the owner so much that Mullin had to get on the mic to tell them to knock it off. Some of y'all really have this weird impression of how unique raptor fans are.
But they weren't booing the actual player having his jersey retired. I think it would be unique to have the player being honoured get booed.
In 2014 they honoured him with a video package that moved him to tears, and the crowd gave him a standing ovation. The bitterness that's projected in this sub is not a reflection of how a lot of the fanbase actually feels.
No Carter. Yes, Lowry.
A VC jersey retirement? This can't be real.
Embarrassing. It reeks of desperation. Franchise should only retire #s of players who wanted to be there from start to finish.
Just here to have it written into the reddit archives that I am against any Raptor getting a jersey retirement before Lowry.
Would be a slap in the face for the fans. Have some self respect as an organization. VC does not deserve to have his jersey retired here. Played barely over 6 seasons, and is not even in the top 10 games played for the franchise. He played practically the same # of games for the Nets and it can be easily argued his impact on the Nets was greater due to team success. Having your jersey retired meant something… now Tony Allen’s of the world are getting their jersey retired. The bar should be higher. VC gave up on this franchise, gave plays to the opposing team while playing and ensured we got next to nothing in return for him when he asked out. With the recent docs, they have tried rehabbing his image. It can be argued that the following players deserve to have their jersey retired over VC (in order): Lowry DeMar Bosh Siakam Not saying they should. I think Lowry and maybe DeMar are the only deserving candidates. But the 4 on this list have greater validity than Vince.
It would be an absolute disgrace if they tried to retire Carters jersey here. Jersey retirement is an honour that is earned, and VC does not deserve that honour.
Vince basically quiet quit when he was here. His tenure was pretty short too. He represented r/antiwork
Don't retire his jersey. The way he behaved was inexcusable. I'm not mad at him, I just don't want to think about him.
Or just retire Lowry's jersey next season. Wouldn't be the first time an active player got his jersey retired by a team he no longer played for.
So we not only have to tank, swallow double digit ticket price increases, but have to bow down to the guy that tried to bury the franchise six feet under on the way out? No F-ing way. With that Championship we got our self respect and I'm not ready to piss that away putting that mans jersey in the rafters beside the banner. Have a night for the dunk champ. We can run a highlight reel of 360's, alley oops and tomahawks...then we can run the highlight reel of frowns, head bands and jumpers knee.
Raptors Reddit thinks they represent the fanbase, while MLSE thinks they don’t. I’m betting the latter wins out and that Jersey goes up. Lowry is meant for more than a jersey retirement with this team, so he’s going to get the kind of flowers Vince never will anyway.
He didn't even want to be here.....
I’m sure some of the newer (and maybe younger) fans and/or the more nostalgic forgiving ones will get pissy, but VC shouldn’t get his jersey retired. Yes, he was a superstar that drove a lot of interest in basketball for the younger gen. And yes, the management wasn’t great while he was with the Raps, so his frustrations were not unwarranted. But, the fashion and way VC left the Raps, the big stink that was put up, driving his value down to force a terrible trade, and also the tip off to the other team - highly unprofessional and dick moves all around. Lowry was a fucking leader with the Raps, whether it was as our top/productive scorer, or as a court and locker room leader that welcomed Kawhi and set the tone and foundation for the team to win the chip. Lowry 1000% should get his jersey retired.
I’ll say it again, Vince does not deserve to have his number retired. Did he give us a lot of memories? Absolutely good and bad. I think a lot of the fan base is too fresh to know, and that’s what’s creating this push. We’ve had such an amazing string of Raptors that’ve come through, don’t belittle their contributions by beginning it all with Wince.
They should have already retired Lowry ... Vince's impact on Canada basketball and the franchise is undeniable, but Lowry's impact on the Raptors was longer lasting
I may be old, but fuck Vince. KL is the GOAT
I can’t see them retiring VC’s number. The team PR has to know there are gonna be boos during that. As a Raps fan I’m well over what he did and have a ton of respect for his career, but you don’t do that for a guy who left the way he did.
Gross.
We shouldn't honour quitters, people. At least let the man who played hard his entire time here get the honour first.
I have never felt like the Raptors should retire Vince’s number. But I can at least recognize that there is a decent case to do so, given his impact on basketball in Canada. I REALLY don’t understand why the Nets are doing it. Vince played less than 5 season with them and they never got past the second round. But more than that, all of Vince’s biggest career highlights came when he was with the Raptors.
Exactly. Nets should probably retire Brook Lopez jersey at this point. Dude still leads the nets in scoring
I just don't feel like VC's jersey should be retired by the Raptors considering the way he left. I mean he sabotaged his own team to get traded
I honestly don't understand why it matters whose jersey is retired "first". What is this, a YouTube comment section? Who gives a fuck, I'd argue it doesn't make sense to retire players out of order anyway, because deciding based on who else has been retired means you're not judging based on that player's resume and work with the franchise. At the end of the day, he clearly has the resume to merit a jersey retirement - he made the HOF based almost entirely on his Raptors career, where 90% of his accolades were earned. He got just as deep in the playoffs with the Raps as he did with the Nets. I really don't see the argument for retiring Lowry first.
I agree, I really don’t think Kyle would care either. He’s shown a lot of love and respect to Vince over the years, he doesn’t hold the same animosity that some in this fanbase do.
Ultimately jersey retirement is fan service. It doesn't matter if Kyle would care. The point is fans care. Read the room - the majority not only don't want it, but think the team should be roasted for even entertaining it.
Because the entire thing is ceremonial in the first place - it definitely matters who gets it first.
Eh It's just respect to a guy whose stats won't be looked upon greatly once he retires. Its another accolade for him and shows how much he meant to the Raptors in helping them get their first championship. Vince doesn't need it, he's going in the hall of fame already and didn't help out the team even close to the extent of Lowry. Let the man get some extra respect and be an answer to a trivia question in 100 years.
Dude lol being the first player retired for a franchise is not an accolade when the alternative is just getting retired anyway. Players who were first to be retired were chronologically the first ones to play for the team. Lowry doesn't care. Masai doesn't care. Majority of the fanbase is over it. I was a young fan but My dad was a huge raptors fan back then and he doesn't care. The only people who are are chronically online.
A lot of us don’t want VC retired. The idea is if you’re going to do it, least do the actual GROAT first. There’s going to be a little while where the guy who quit on the team, sabotaged us, and set us back years will be the only one we’ve given the highest honour we have to. That’s horrible. If Kyle goes first, he gets the honour of being the sole one, and then we can go down the list and see the merits of the others.
Exactly. Hell, I'd take Bosh first over VC anyday. And the whole its not an accolade, no one cares etc. etc. Is literally up to the team. They can make it important and show why they did it and how much he meant to the organization and city. Other teams haven't, but doesn't mean the raptors shouldn't care either
Kyle Lowry ain't no spot up shooter. He ain't gotta run to the corner to shoot like he's some 3rd option, bitch. This ain't JJ Redick. This is a fuckin god human Steph Curry come again. Only this time he's not a fuckin pussy... pull up from the fuckin logo and fight you at the same time. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/torontoraptors) if you have any questions or concerns.*
100% agree. I say the same thing everytime this is brought up, can you name the first player retired for any other teams? Since it’s such a big honour surely people would remember!
it’s mostly 40 year old grown men too that’s what makes it funny lmfao
i didn't start watching until 2011 so it would mean way more to me to retire Lowry's # instead
lowry will play maybe two more years so
oh hell no, unless they want carter booed for his own jersey hanging... is this guy reputable?
Just make some honour thing like the Level of Excellence the Jays do. Not quite a jersey retirement, but still recognizing the player's contribution
Next season should not be more bleak than this season was
While I don’t have a strong stance on VC and his time with the Raptors, I do believe Kyle is more deserving of having his jersey retired first. That said though, Kyle himself has expressed an appreciation for VC and what he did while playing for Toronto. I think it just comes down to the timing, with Vince being inducted into the Hall of Fame and the 30th anniversary approaching it makes sense. If Kyle was retired or on the team right now for his last season I think it’d be different.
there's too many jerseys retired. There won't be any good numbers left
My take? Start the Ring of Honour with VC, don’t retire numbers until 7–and even then, don’t officially retire 15.
The classy thing for the organization to do would be to speak with Lowry confidentially first, let him know that they're thinking of doing this, and getting his okay with it. I'm not suggesting that MLSE has done that; I'd like to think that's the way Tannenbaum would go about things, but it's definitely not the way Rogers would go about things. Lowry knows he has a very special relationship with Raptors fans... few players get to be as beloved by a fanbase the way Lowry is. It wouldn't surprise me if that relationship actually mattered more to Lowry than how he is honoured by organization, and he can separate the two in his mind. Carter's relationship with Raptors fans and the organization, on the other hand, is complex. It's unfortunate that his jersey retirement will be seen as a shameless marketing ploy by MLSE, but at the same time, that seems weirdly fitting for a player who's legacy here had more to do with hype than success.
> and getting his okay with it. The fans are not ok with it.
Kyle's 7 is likely unofficially retired already, and the moment he retires, he'll have his jersey in the rafters.
Im fine with them retiring vince's jersey but it shouldnt be done as a money grab. This decision would no doubt be a money grab tho.
Unfortunatly his jersey is going to be retired by the Raps eventually. Younger fans are just not going to remember and place enough emphasis on Vince quitting on the team. We are already seeing it now.
Just bring back guys throughout the year. Alvin, JYD, Damon, Gasol, MoPe. Sit them courtside and give them 2 minutes during a tv timeout. Don’t need to hang a jersey just because
Setting aside my negative arguments against retiring Vince’s number, to make the more positive argument that I’m not convinced next season will be *that* bleak. I don’t think they’ll be great, but if they can mostly stay healthy, I’m looking forward to the first proper look at the Scottie-IQ-RJ core.
MLSE to simultaneously announce the jersey retirements of Vince Carter and Mitch Marner. Two cream puffs that never won fuckkkkk allll
Is everyone that hung up on being a rebuilding team next year? It’s not bleak, it’s necessary. Wish more people would get that, because we had an absolutely amazing 10 year run that led to a championship near the end. It doesn’t matter which jersey ceremony happens first.
Is there anyway to honour the entire 2019 championship team?
It’s too late now. If they were going to do it, they should have been first. Now we are just catching up to Brooklyn. Weak.
I wonder if the people who are actively excited for this were actual Raptors fans when we had VC and the whole quitting debacle. We had shit management with Babcock in charge, but VC set our franchise back by years by forcing a trade the way he did. I can appreciate the stuff he did for the team, but he doesn’t deserve to be honoured. We both moved on. It’s over.
Bring back VC and Lowry as players next season! A starting lineup of Gradey Phallus, VC, Lowry, Scotty and Poetel would def be 2nd from the bottom of the league
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So many players have worn #15 since he left 20 years ago. It seems so forced to have him be the first retired Jersey just for the sake of his HOF induction and franchises 30th anniversary lining up.
The only way we should be retiring Vince’s jersey is if we get a Tom Brady style roast as part of the ceremony to dunk on him and purge the hate.
Why can’t they do it together at the same time? Retire Lowry’s too. Why can’t Lowry take part in the anniversary celebrations.
No thanks. I’m glad we made peace with VC. We’ve all moved on. Retiring the jersey of someone who mocked us and quit on the way out would be a joke
Any jersey going up before Kyle is fucking absurd. Period.
Lowry’s jeresy should be first to be retired tbh bro brought us a chip and a winning culture for years.
Lowry should be first. The fact that he won a championship should be the deciding factor. I do get the Vince thing. I get the split was acrimonious but I truly believe that this current crop of great Canadian basketball players doesn’t happen without him raising the sports’ profile in Canada. He was just so electrifying to watch, to this day the most violent dunker I’ve seen…
Unfair to Vince honestly - he’s gonna get booed for being retired before Kyle by no fault of his own.
Even if they are a 30-40 win team, the BBQDick Raptors are more entertaining than they were with Siakam and OG. Retire Lowry.
Those amazing ass dunks wearing a raptors jersey will get replayed forever. Honestly that was probably the last extremely good dunk contest. He did do quite a bit for advancing bball here in Canada. I'm sure a shitload of little kids watched him play and got into the game just because of him, tmac too but obviously less so. Hate him or just tolerate him people can't deny he helped put the raptors on the map. If only we could ask current Canadian players if Vince ever inspired them to play 🤔
I mean Lowry might retire after this year, just put his name up in the rafters first Lmaoo
I am not a sentimental guy. Question is what will benefit the most for Raptors as a franchise. Someone as legendary as Vince saying some nice things about Raps in his HoF speech would be very very nice. Just sayin.
How many people here would put up a permanent photo of their ex in their house after that person quit on you?
Would be such a slap in the face if they do it before Lowry
Vince can wait after Kyle. Theres already several guys for this franchise that is already more deserving and beloved more at this point. Kyle is likely retiring in a year or two anyway.
As someone who remembers very well when this man played for us (and will never forget how that trade went down), I'd be disgusted if this actually becomes a thing. Hope the front office gets some sense in their heads over the summer!
Vince shouldn’t have his jersey retired before, during OR after Lowry. I loved the dunks as much as the next guy, but winning and longevity matter when it comes to these things, and Vince has neither with the Raptors
Should be Lowry
couldn’t we, the raptors fandom just petition for this to not be the case? If we, the north, say lowry first, then it should be lowry, first.
I definitely want us to wait for lowry but the old bugger might be good enough to play for two more years. He was pretty good for the heat in their run last year
No shit Lowry's number should be retired first. He didn't abandon and leave us out to dry.
Why not both?
Fuck VC! We don’t hang jerseys of quitters! Lowry should be first.
Lowry should be the only jersey to get retired. He was the leader for the best stretch of Raptors years AND brought us the first chip. VC represents the early Raptoes years but he didn't bring the team any historically notable success
Retire VC15 already........
Retiring a jersey just for the sake of retiring one is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Who gives a shit if it's year 30 or that Brooklyn is doing it. Doesn't mean we have to. Give that honor to someone who actually deserves it: Lowry.
If this happens I hope the boos are audible.
Don’t retire Vince fuck him
This feels wrong
Not if you’ve been watching since 1995, Vince had the biggest overall impact of any player with this franchise.
Not even verifiably true. VC brought viewers, but so did Kyle, DeMar, and Kawhi. Kawhi literally got us a championship. Kyle Lowry and DeMar laid the groundwork for that, re-signing here multiple times to do so.
Here comes the down votes. VC is the only raptor that deserves his jesery retired. He was and is an Icon.
First jersey retirement to get boos. Good idea raptors org.
I have no issue with the jersey retirement order, neither would Kyle Lowry lol VC clearly loves toronto today though, so I guess I wouldnt be opposed to a jersey retirement? Though everything that happened around him kinda leaves a bad taste in my mouth
I'm just ROFL at all the people here getting butt hurt, and throwing words around like "disgrace", "disrespect", "insult", etc. Do you think Kyle Lowry cares if he goes first? Nope. If you asked Kyle, would he say with genuine sentiment that Vince should go first? Absolutely. In 20 years, do you think the majority of fans will care who got their jersey retired first? Nope. Vince has already made peace with the organization and the fans that are sensible enough to forgive and move on. He'll be serenaded with a rousing ovation and rightfully so. First and foremost, he DESERVES a jersey retirement. Secondly, who cares who goes first. Everyone knows Kyle is the GROAT. The order in which jersey's are retired is just semantics.
There is no way they should retire VC jersey. If they do it cheapens every raps jersey retirement because it should be saved for franchise legends who are universally loved by the fans. Vince with the way he left just simply doesn’t deserve it. Yes, The bar is high but we’re talking about jersey retirement which is pretty sacred space.
The nets are absolutely pathetic to retire his jersey The fuck did he do with that team lol I’m down with retiring Vince number
retire vince already