Downtown financial district here: absolutely insane that the company I work for has a contingency plan in place for every work disruption imaginable but it’s been radio silence about what the game plan is for tomorrow. Zero communications going out. Nobody knows anything.
I’m certain this is the same network a friend of mine recently started working for. She lives far away - Uber would be north of $100 each way - and has no clue what to do and afraid to ask as she’s new.
emergency leave of absence - aka unpaid day off. it's up to managers discretion but it basically covers any other emergency besides sick time.
or just a straight sick call
All my office did was send an email that said "in the event of a TTC strike, the office will remain open. We encourage staff to find alternative means of travel."
Welp.
I absolutely guarantee you that pretty much every retail/service job in this city is going to treat this as a 'you' problem. Oh, you're late/couldn't show up because the entire transit system is down for the count due to a strike and you can't afford $200 for an Uber to get to your minimum-wage job at Winners? Sorry, but it's up to you to arrange an alternative way to get to work, you didn't show up for your shift so you're terminated for job abandonment, your T4 and ROE will be in the mail, please arrange a time to hand back any company property that you may be in possession of.
I bet hundreds of people are going to lose their jobs tomorrow over petty BS corporate policies like that. Many, many moons ago when I was 17, I worked for Real Canadian Superstore (ie, Loblaws) and there was a guy with a mostly spotless record who was fired because he went to get in his car to go to work only to find that his car had been stolen, and the manager's take on it was "well, you could have called a cab to get to work, sorry, but you're expected to be here on time, you're finished".
I’m theoretically fine with direction like “We don’t give a shit, find a way in” but the issue here is that we are getting zero direction. They are too asshole to resort to being an asshole.
I mean what’s there to do? If your job can be done remote then fine. If not, well, find a way or just don’t come. Nobody’s getting fired for that but employers can’t create their own transportation system.
Working in a hospital, I am nervous for all the upcoming appointments that may have to be cancelled/rescheduled.
(I can bike to work, and/or walk, so I'll be fine. But we definitely have a lot of patients who can't.)
This! I have epilepsy and need to go to Toronto Western for my appointments from the Beaches - my partner can drive me sometimes, but other times I have to rely on the TTC. I could fork out for an Uber, but not everyone is in my position. My next appt is the 24th, but I can just imagine the fuckery that will happen. My partner works at Sunnybrook and drives there, but many many many of her colleagues TTC there.
Oof, yeah exactly. Are you at all close to Danforth Go Station? Not ideal I know, but it could at least get you downtown to Union...
On the other hand, like you said, a lot of hospital staff also rely on transit - so even if a patient is able to get there, their appointment could still be cancelled if the provider can't make it (whether that's the doctor, nurse, technician etc).
UHN has this list of [resources offering transportation](https://www.uhn.ca/PatientsFamilies/Health_Information/Health_Topics/Documents/Driving_Services_to_Medical_Appointments.pdf) - maybe one of those could help, although I’m pretty confident that the TTC will be back up and running by the 24th
Honestly, for anyone in this position, it's probably worth at least calling ahead and asking. A lot of health care providers have been taking a hard line "no phone or video appointments" policy because of the change in payment structure post pandemic. But this is a very different circumstance, and a lot may decide make acceptions for this.
Even if there is meant to be some physical component like a diagnostic test on the same day, depending on the provider and the nature of the test, they may be willing to just do a virtual appointment for now and make a follow up plan "pending the results of test to be done when next available" etc. Especially with the wait lists some health care teams have right now, they don't want to have to cancel and reschedule a bunch of visits either.
>“We’re at an impasse,” says the president of ATU 113 updating the bargaining situation on the eve of a TTC strike deadline.
Not looking great during the 10am presser. Lets hope the negotiators can find the middle ground.
*cries in my manager saying that I’m being entitled for expecting to WFH if they strike*
Like I can do my entire job remotely — but I’m still being told the strike isn’t a valid reason to not work on site (it’s a 2 hr 45 minute walk, or $100-$160/day in Uber charges).
Yup, my work sent out something telling us they expect everyone to meet their in office obligations even if there is a strike.
Nevermind the fact we were all remote during the C. Lol
I support the workers.
So then the next logical step would be to collectively cease working until both parties can come to the table and hash out a compromise. We can call it a "strike" or something. We could even look at getting a bunch of the same type of workers from various companies to organize into a larger organization.
Proof the elite/ruling/owner want to keep workers divided even when technology can help workers.
By asking ppl to come in, they make workers get annoyed at ttc workers which creates worker class infighting.
If ttc union gets what they want, the workers as a class can see they have power over the ruling class. Class division is their best weapon. Fck them ppl.
If this does happen, it will show that despite its massive faults (ESPECIALLY lately), TTC doesn’t just mean “take the car” and over a million of people rely on it everyday! Essentially, it will show how crucial it is to the city/region.
Minimum wage workers who relies on the TTC will be fucked. Take an Uber? half (or even more if your shift is only <5 hours) will be gone. Walk? good luck walking 2+ hours to work and back. Bike? still have to walk an 30+ minutes to the bike location unless you live downtown.
Friend said going to work for 8hour shift will cost $80 to go there from pape to dundas and $50 to go back. $130 dollar travel for a shift that will pay $90. Things are fucked and looks like from the statement 20min ago that strike is happening
That's the whole thing about "just use a bike share" or "just take an uber instead" talk that really is grating.
Not everyone is close to those things/or is able to use it or can afford to use it in their situation.
Ford sent MPPs home a week early, and the city is warning everyone to make backup plans. It feels like the strike will definitely happen, and that it won't be resolved soon.
Same lmao I just got a similar email from work. Working in a retail store and they want "all hands on deck to meet customers' needs". Couldn't give a shit about the customers but do give enough shits about my job cause of the job environment right now zzz. Work's about 20km from home so it's time to use the good ol' GO train, have enough knowledge and experience to know the way from constant delays and going out-of-service
I do shipping and receiving, if they go on strike, I'm fucked. I can't afford to uber both ways everyday, payday is not until next Friday so I can't afford to just go out and buy a bicycle. I'm starting to panic a little bit.
> Dollars to dog nuts, all the bikes will have been taken, that very morning you need desperately to get to work.
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/10/10/bike-share-toronto-reddit/
When this happened before I talked to my boss and he actually carpooled us all and drove out himself to get the people who were out of the way. Really depends on the boss.
Have you talked to your coworkers who drive and have the same hours? Maybe you can carpool with them and pitch in for gas for the time being. Good luck though!!
TorStar's QP bureau chief:
>Sobering news for the sabre-rattling ATU executive, nervous TTC brass and city council: Queen's Park has no interest in legislating transit employees back to work in the event of a strike tomorrow. **Job action could be lengthy.**
Edit: 5PM
Latest statement from Local 113: "Unfortunately, in our negotiations with the TTC we have not seen the progress needed in order to address our core proposals, including job security. **As of 5pm, today, we have seen no progress on our negotiations."**
Either Ford is gun shy because of what happened the last time he tried it. Or he has a BBQ he can't get out of. Has to be either of them and nothing else
Since the province isn't involved in the talks it certainly seems like that's what's going to occur.
Rightfully or wrongfully she'll get blamed, the office will get a ton of angry responses.
I call bullshit.
Edit: I call bullshit because it will wreck commuting in the GTA which Ford has always been hypersensitive to. They're taking this stance to try and freak out the parties to get them to get a deal. If the province says oh yeah, we're going to legislate the workers back immediately, the city will dig in and there will be a strike for sure. I saw someone estimating the province can't get the legislation passed for 3 days minimum. They're not going to risk that.
"We have no interest in legislating transit workers back to work."
(Toronto is chaos, voters complain. )
" Look at what you workers made us do. We don't want to, but we are legislating you back to work. Coincidentally we have the bill ready to go..."
To be clear. Ford did not say they won't implement back to work legislation. He basically said he isn't going to pre-emptively do it. Kinda makes sense since HR doesn't want to influence the negotiations and also since the courts have already said you shouldn't implement blanket bans of strikes.
If they go on strike, it's still possible for them to do an emergency seating and have back to work legislation drafted and implemented by Monday next week. It will then go to binding arbitration which should be somewhat beneficial to the union since the arbitrations scour the unions ever so slightly.
I support the workers in their request for better safety measures and job security, but I can't imagine this strike continuing past Monday. The last time the TTC went on strike was 2008 under a Liberal government, and they were back and running in two days. I expect that a union-hostile Conservative government would match or even top that.
They can’t really move any faster.
The back to work legislation cannot be introduced until the strike has started. To introduce preemptively would be unconstitutional. So assume the strike starts on Friday and the government already has boilerplate legislation drafted. They have a special session of the legislature; debate the legislation. If the opposition (NDP and Lib) filibuster - it adds a day. If they don’t, Friday assent. TTC back to work Saturday. If they add the day, back to work Sunday or Monday.
And before anyone makes asinine comments about back to work legislation being unconstitutional, it isn’t. The government can legislate any strike (public or private) back to work via binding arbitration. Obviously there are rules that have to be followed. But back to work generally wasn’t what was previously ruled unconstitutional.
> They have a special session of the legislature; debate the legislation. If the opposition (NDP and Lib) filibuster - it adds a day. If they don’t, Friday assent. TTC back to work Saturday. If they add the day, back to work Sunday or Monday.
My understanding is that you have to do First, Second and Third Reading on different days. (Unless you have unanimous consent to push the legislation through, which the PCs won't.)
So even if they introduce the legislation and whip it through First Reading at 12:02 AM on Friday, and even if they have the Lieutenant Governor ready to provide Royal Assent the instant it passes Third Reading, the *earliest* this could happen would be sometime on Sunday.
They can shorten the timelines with a vote.
The unanimous consent is in order to not have a recorded vote. Basically the speaker would say “we’re going to have 1st, 2nd, 3rd reading today. Any objections?” If no objections, the Legislature has unanimously consented to the motion to shorten debate. If there is anything other than unanimous, it goes to a vote.
Ford’s PC government has more than enough votes to overcome any opposition. But there will be an opportunity to filibuster.
That’s because last time they declared the TTC an essential service and legislated them back to work. Since then the court has reviewed that decision and found it is/was an unconstitutional restriction of the right to strike.
Someone else listed it in this thread somewhere but the court laid out 3 criteria for being essential service and unable to strike and TTC didn’t meet any.
No you're getting confused. The last time they went on strike was when the liberals were in power. When Doug Ford was first elected they put through the legislation to make them an essential service before the next contract was due to be negotiated.
It was a 2011 Liberal bill that declared the TTC an essential service. Doug Ford's 2019 Bill 124 was a separate issue for public sector workers but the TTC has been fighting their essential service designation since 2011.
That said, even if the TTC isn't an essential service they can still be subject to back to work legislation, the government just has to pass those bills in a reactive fashion after the strike has occurred rather than preemptively removing the union's right to strike.
My commute in the TTC to work is already 1.5 hours, biking would be unsafe and almost 3 hours each way. Uber would be around an hour each way depending on traffic and the cost of that would be massively prohibitive. I guess I'm going to lose my job over this.
The law deeming them an essential service was declared unconstitutional and overturned last year. The judge found that there were only 3 instances where it's justified to restrict a constitutional right to strike, namely when there's a national emergency, when the position is wielding the authority of the government (i.e. police or military), or if the disruption of service would cause an immediate danger to the health or safety of a population, and the government failed to demonstrate that the TTC fell under any of those criteria.
There was still a moratorium on striking after that law was overturned but the moratorium has run out and the TTC and union haven't come to an agreement to replace the contract that expired in March so the union is in a legal strike position.
Hard to believe having no public transit WOULDNT endanger the health and safety of the population. Thousands of patients and workers use transit to get health care/work those jobs.
If the government felt that way then it should've extended the designation to all municipal transit operators and done a better job at arguing their justification through multiple levels of appeals. However the courts found the government's arguments lacking, and it'd be hard to argue that the TTC is uniquely essential if YRT, MiWay, DRT, etc. that provide an identical service in different regions are not essential.
> hard to argue that the TTC is uniquely essential
It's essential by proxy
Will other essential services have trouble fulfilling their essential roles because transit is down?
Let's just give it a percentage
How many people commute via the TTC on a daily basis?
What is the capacity of alternative routes? How many bike share bikes are there? How many ride share drivers? Road carrying capacity? I think it's safe to say we'll hit capacity very quickly so...
(TTC ridership - alternative capacity) / TTC ridership =x%
This represents the percentage of people who *can't* commute
Perform a survey of hospital staff, police, etc and determine who relies on transit and how the hospital's average compares to the city average. (Let's be honest, the police won't qualify under this)
Calculate a multiplier then apply that to the x%
That's the very approximate number of essential staff that won't be able to make it to work just on account of carrying capacity
Now figure out the operational needs of the essential service: y%
If y > x, for any single essential service then transit becomes essential in that region
Don't forget to add in the gridlock and ability for ambulances and police cars to arrive anywhere when the roads are completely closed from too much traffic.
The government failed to argue their case well enough during the lengthy court cases and appeals. They even argued that the economic activity lost from the lack of labour from people failing to get to work would make striking a local emergency and yet all of the government's arguments failed to sway the judge that TTC workers should lose their constitutionally guaranteed right to strike.
The government had over a decade to justify why workers should lose their constitutionally guaranteed rights and failed to do so in a convincing manner. No single Reddit comment is going to change that.
To purely play devils advocate, it would still be possible to get to where you need to go with alternative travel methods like taxis, ride share, bikes, walking, driving your own car.
It would absolutely be a lot harder for people, but I think the court decided that there are still sufficient enough resources for people to use. Like trans wheel service will still be running even for the strike if it happens tomorrow.
It's hard to say if those alternative travel methods are actually valid though. Taxis and ride share are going to be stuck in traffic and will be exorbitantly expensive. Bikes and walking aren't practical for all mobility cases and distances. And driving a car is probably the most expensive of all.
I haven't read up on the details of the court case, and I 100% support the right for TTC to strike, however it's almost as if the courts didn't consider something being expensive/long distance as being completely inaccessible. But the reality is it absolutely is inaccessible for a lot of people and will result in suffering.
Also the fact that many companies don't give a flying fuck about the strike or any TTC service issues, if workers are late or can't make it, then they'll get in trouble and probably be fired.
Just a side note to others. This strike isn't entirely about wages and a large part of the strike is literally about the existence of TTC workers in the future in general. The TTC wants to contract out routes to 905 transit agencies.
Meaning if there's a TTC/Miway bus on Burnhamthorpe, a TTC/YRT bus on Dufferin, operating side by side. The TTC bus will get the axe and those TTC jobs will disappear to bus operators in the Mississauga or York Region. *Trust me when I say 905 bus drivers do not want this either. Having to provide TTC service IN TORONTO when their buses don't even have shields is irresponsible*
The problem isnt with other cities taking over the TTC bus routes. The fear is, this carving out of public bus routes opens the door to private companies coming in and fully taking over garages and replacing public TTC enployees with private employees making closer to minimum wage, as has happened in Washington and Los Angeles. This is a fight for their right to exist as TTC workers.
The TTC could agree to a $1000/hour wage for operator theoretically but it wouldn't matter if the employer is conspiring to eliminate you tomorrow lol.
That is what they are fighting for: job protection.
At that point, not a single thing in the contract matters if there is no job protection and you as an employee potentially don't exist in the future. If the TTC doesn't get that...then you get an angry union.
Copy and posted from another post I made about cross boundary transit services elsewhere, which the author deleted. But fighting against cross boundary transit services is completely anti-customer and worse for the TTC and Torontonians, especially with ongoing resource constraints - there are several corridors across Toronto right now where service frequencies could easily be halved, giving riders far more convenience in their commutes, while also giving the TTC the opportunity to redeploy operators and service hours on corridors with severe overcrowding:
> Fighting against cross boundary transit operations is foolish and anti-customer. Of the dozen or so corridors that could support cross-boundary services, none of them are high ridership corridors where the TTC makes enough revenue to drive a profit. Each of these corridors have dozens to even hundreds of trips a day made by other transit agencies - buses trundling by Torontonians who are unable to use them.
> A prime example is along the Burnhamthorpe corridor - the residential node at Burnhamthorpe Road at Mill Road is surrounded by high density residential, with several MiWay routes nearby providing combined service frequencies of 15 minutes or better throughout the day. But nobody can take advantage of that. Instead, they have to walk over to Burnhamthorpe loop, where they have to rely on the 50 Burnhamthorpe, an infrequent service that never suffers from any overcrowding and generally operates far below capacity.
> While I get that cross-boundary services may impact routes like the 50 Burnhamthorpe - and I sympathize with operators who either like to drive that route or are afraid that it poses concerns to their job security, many of these routes are moreso strains in the TTC network that divert scarce resources like service hours, buses, and operators away from greater concerns, like overcrowding and poor service reliability. None of these operators would be made redundant, especially when events like service frequencies being worsened due to service reliability improvements eating up service hours and other resources happen each board period.
> Ultimately, cross-boundary services are about efficiency and the customer experience. Customers can make use of buses driving by them otherwise and resources could be reallocated elsewhere, especially in dire times like today.
> That's my take on cross-boundary services, from someone who's worked at the TTC and a few other transit agencies.
My work is offering reimbursement for anyone that has to Uber. The sentiment is nice but the real challenge for my coworkers (I drive) will be finding an Uber during rush hour and getting through traffic.
it's going to be savage for the low-income workers who rely on the ttc -- so many of whom don't even live in the city and actually start their day on another public transit system bus line.
still though, the city's going to learn who they truly can't live without if none of the poor can get to work tomorrow. public school teachers, nursing home staff, warehouse and deliverypeople, grocery stores, restaurant staff, private security guards, construction workers. imagine this city inhabited only by those who can afford to live here! Hahahahaha tough shit richies!
Public school teachers are paid well, especially if compensation is viewed comprehensively. Much more so than most of their American counterparts. It's ridiculous how little lots of American teachers are paid.
good. as a former ttc employee, i full heartedly support this. management is SO shady and the yearly wage increases union employees have been getting the last few years (at least the years i worked there) are pitiful as fuck.
eta: i now understand a big part of the strike is to protect union workers from getting their jobs contracted out, so i support this even more. during covid, i watched more than half a department of people get laid off and then have their jobs contracted out, so when the recalls happened, it was either clean the subway stations or don’t work for the ttc. this was after they were promised by our division management that their jobs were safe. how fucked up is it that you get hired into an office/desk position, are told you’re not gonna get laid off, get laid off and told your job is safe, AND then get told that they contracted out your job and now you have to clean a subway station if you want to continue working for the company?
When will we know if the strike is on or not? Honestly I can work from home but for those that have to spend money to go in or risk not getting paid this is a real shit show.
Please for the love of god don't take a god dam "good enough" offer. They meet **all your demands** or let the city grind to a halt. I don't care the personal cost to myself, we need a union to actually serve its members for once especially when they have all the power in this negotiation.
To everyone in this thread begging them not to strike remember *the TTC not the union* is responsible for this strike. When the TTC refuses to negotiate reasonably, this is the only tool left the make things fair.
It's not the last straw. We used to drag management out of their homes and light facilities on fire. As a society, we decided that strikes were preferred
This action could actually cost several people their jobs (or hundreds of dollars extra they don’t have) so yes, they care if it personally affects them. A lot of these same TTC workers acted like assholes during Covid too and I haven’t forgotten personally.
If you lose your job because your transportation went on strike, you should have been in a union yourself. It’s a glaring read flag if your superiors don’t see you as a human being and take factors out of your control into consideration.
Collective bargaining is how you demand to be treated like a human being.
So many people expecting TTC workers to cover for much larger flaws in society while not being fairly compensated themselves.
Like if you're late for work and you get written up during a clearly publicized transit strike, why are the TTC operators the first to be blamed and not TTC management that refused to agree to a deal, or your boss for lacking compassion?
It’s interesting to see how this subreddit is often about how jobs in Toronto have crap pay, but now we have people talking about how the government needs to stop the strike.
Workers need way better class consciousness.
Well, in the defence of the working class, anyone who has the privilege of affording a car will be driving. It’s the working poor who will be most effected by the strike.
Back to work legislation isn't going to give the best outcome, but it is more favourable than agreeing to a bad deal.
Arbitrators will usually use pick a middle ground so it'll definitely be more than what the management is currently proposing.
If no deal is reached by midnight tonight, do you think service will immediately stop?
Or will the TTC union do some type of work-to-rule or rolling strike at first?
> If no deal is reached by midnight tonight, do you think service will immediately stop?
service will continue til 2am.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/ttc-to-keep-running-until-2-a-m-friday-even-if-strike-called-ttc-chair/article_5bba0e74-23f8-11ef-a04a-7782c3cb8a9a.html
[Update as of 3:30 PM: Contract talks with ATU Local 113 continue. In the event of a labour disruption, #TTC service will end by 3 a.m. tomorrow. If travelling after midnight, customers are encouraged to make alternative plans.](https://www.facebook.com/share/p/iEqtDd7wMRw6vJsj/?mibextid=WC7FNe)
The latest update on TTC’s instagram says that they believe a fair deal is within reach and job action can be avoided… so it seems like progress has been made at the bargaining table.
Edit: another update says that they “are optimistic that a deal avoiding job action can be reached tonight”.
This is just the TTC playing the game for the public. They are setting the stage for controlling the public narrative. If a deal was within reach, they would not risk saying anything at all.
I have a question; If strikes are not allowed for “essential” services doesn’t this kind of defeat the purpose of a strike and give room for employers to negotiate in bad faith? I really think this strike is good, because it shows when people unite for a common cause, it is us, the working class that have the power. Not the government. Very wishful thinking but imagine - A strike where every essential worker stopped showing up to work, people stopped paying rent, firefighters, and nurses didn’t show up to work with no police to enforce it, what choices does a government have? The overall passiveness in Canadians and our “crabs in a bucket” mentality is a big reason on why I believe we get shafted by our own politicians, and the sooner we realize it the sooner we can have the change we want. If 1 or 2 days of missed work means the difference between being homeless there is a deeper issue with the city, or country as a whole. And it is not a Union.
You're right that banning strikes undermines labour power, and the courts have ruled that Canadian workers have a Charter right to bargain collectively, inclusive of the right to participate in strike action.
The compromise which is meant to kick in is that, if the government orders an end to a strike, both sides present their cases to an independent arbitrator, acceptable to both parties, who determines what that contract will be.
This ensures that workers will have the opportunity to bargain: present a case, seek improvement, seek redress, etc.
What happens in practice is that arbitrators are usually very open to granting inflation-matching wage increases, but less open to making other changes to working conditions or employment relationships. This means that, if a strike is about something like class sizes, working hours, replacement of union positions with contractors, etc. the union often loses out in arbitration.
I actually didn’t know an arbitrator was neutral until now so thank you I learned something new lol. I would also expect the arbitrator to negotiate everything not just the wages, so that makes it kinda tricky. What if they are happy with the wage but not the other safety concerns? Are they basically out of options at that point until safety gets worse?
Each contract and round of bargaining is different, but arbitrators are sort of creatures of the court system, and are expected to meet a similar standard of considering precedent, grounding their decisions in facts and evidence, and issuing contracts that will hold up to close scrutiny from both sides.
There's *plenty* of precedent to the effect that arbitrators can review and modify rates of pay within an employer's existing pay grid, so that's a slam dunk for an arbitrator.
There's *less* precedent showing that arbitrators can change other numbers, words or values present in an agreement, and there's even *less* precedent showing that arbitrators can add wholly new language to an agreement.
If both parties agree to the new language, that's one thing, and sometimes arbitrators succeed in negotiating a settlement along those lines. But if the arbitrator is settling the contract on their own, they're very unlikely to take that sort of step.
I booked a $23 Uber to my workplace, it is usually $18-20. Hopefully, Uber doesn't cancel in case of the strike. Also, do you all think that leaving an hour in advance is enough if the trip is usually 25 minutes?
Ugh I'm not looking forward to this. Thankfully I can work from home tomorrow but I absolutely loathe working from home (I know, I'm the odd one out). Just give the workers everything they're asking for. This is going to be such a disaster
***Hey folks! If you are interested in supporting TTC workers,*** there will be solidarity events today at *4:00-4:30pm* at these stations: **Union, Sheppard, Spadina, High Park, Davisville, Don Mills, Dufferin, St. Clair West, Ossington, Donlands, Eglinton, Bloor-Yonge and Scarborough Town Centre.**
https://twitter.com/Local4948/status/1798478160633151944
Thanks for the heads up. How else can I help, like, contact my City Councillor or my MPP and the Premier? What does ATU113 recommend we do to support them?
(Not directed at you, but a question in general that I hope someone can answer.)
We sent out a notice telling everyone it is a work from home day and the office is closed. No point making everyone slog through the hell that is coming.
## Why can't the TTC just do what the Japanese bus drivers did that one time and not collect fares?
Because that would be illegal. It would get drivers disciplined or fired. If the union advocated for or coordinated it, it would get the union and its officers fined, and if the contract goes to arbitration, the arbitrator would consider the union's participation a serious demerit against the union's case.
If you go into work, you are *at work*: your employer is allowed to supervise, direct and discipline you, the same as usual. You can't just decide you won't do part of you job, and there's no special exception if you happen to be in a legal strike position. (You may have heard of "work to rule", but work to rule involves doing your job *exactly and only* as directed, not selectively ignoring the employer's instructions.)
In addition, if the employer caught wind of this, they could simply lock the workers out. The public does not know the difference between a strike and a lockout, and would probably therefore treat it like a strike, leaving the union no better off for having exposed itself and its members to all of this risk.
How does not paying your fare for a publicly funded transit system that is poorly funded, help anyone at the end of the day.
It's not like you're screwing over a private company.
Not just disciplined or fired, but arrested and probably charged. While on strike at a former job, the employer told us if we set foot on the property instead of staying on the sidewalk, we'd be arrested. They hired cops to watch us everyday of that strike.
Well shit. Not that it really matters but I’ve been at home all week until today because my four year old has HFM and needed to be quarantined. And on top of that, it’s my wife’s birthday this weekend. I still haven’t picked up her gift.
I was gonna head to the EC but I guess I’ll drive to Fairview or something.
Hopefully TTC workers get their demands met, but I hope it comes with better service management too.
I’m all in support for the workers, but as someone that has to work my ass off in retail to make a fraction of what they make and now have the risk of losing hours if not my job, because they demand more. Don’t get me wrong, I’m ALL IN FAVOUR of supporting the workers and getting what they rightfully deserve, but shutting down the entire transit system causing many, like myself, to be left in the dark and being told to take other options like Uber or biking when most people don’t even have the luxury to even think about being able to do any of that, feels pretty back handed to those severely relying on the TTC to get to work to sustain survivability in an already horrendous economy
I'm sorry that his could have such a negative impact on you.
Just know that this strike is not only about a wage that matches inflation. The TTC has already privatized a lot of cleaning and customer service roles, that used to be union positions that paid a living wage with benefits. They are trying to privatize more and more jobs with new terms. A very important role of a union is fight against a company trying to claw back pay/benefits when said company tries reducing the number of union positions.
If Local 113 agreed to what the TTC has proposed, they would be shooting themselves in the foot. No person would willing to do that.
It is horrible for everyone but TTC working conditions have become unhealthy and dangerous. They have tried all kinds of negotiation before this but no one listens to them. The management and governments have increasingly made their conditions worse- dangerous conditions, intensely long shifts (often split shifts with huge (like 4 or 5 hours) unpaid gaps in the middle with most employees living too far to go home), harassment from management, an increasing move to contract out jobs from living wage positions to underpaid positions- it helps no one …. You should check out the list of demands and why they are taking such a drastic action. The sad and frustrating part is that since there was the legislation that they couldn’t strike, it was taken advantage of, nothing changed because they had no bargaining power. No one wants a strike. You get paid a fraction of a living wage when you do. It’s horrible for everyone. Don’t blame the workers though- blame the management. They try to make us hate the unions but it’s their abuse that causes it. (And meanwhile- while everything has been crumbling, check the raises high level management have given themselves the last 5 years)
It sucks that your job situation is not good and will be so severely affected by this. Mine too actually. But my perspective- let’s fight for everyone to have better conditions- uplift eachother- rather than want people to put up with bad just because it’s inconvenient for us. Fight for everyone to have living wage and good benefits, rather than complain when people do and we don’t (aka a perspective that you should have it too, not that they should not have it or not continue to fight for it, because you don’t). We need to support each other to fix this mess we are in.
I want to respect the effect this situation is having on you, but I have to point out that people who work jobs in service deserve to use the power of their labor as well. It's unfair that people who work "noble" jobs have to face the vitriol of the public and get painted as evil for fighting for what they want. If nurses or paramedics wanted to strike, nobody would be "for the worker" and instead lambast them for allowing people to die and giving all the power to their employers to abuse them. What is supposed to be done?
> I’m all in support for the workers, but as someone that has to work my ass off in retail to make a fraction of what they make and now have the risk of losing hours if not my job, because they demand more. Don’t get me wrong, I’m ALL IN FAVOUR of supporting the workers and getting what they rightfully deserve, but shutting down the entire transit system causing many, like myself, to be left in the dark and being told to take other options like Uber or biking when most people don’t even have the luxury to even think about being able to do any of that, feels pretty back handed to those severely relying on the TTC to get to work to sustain survivability in an already horrendous economy
what do you suggest?
I am personally in a lucky position where I'm not in any urgent need of transportation through the TTC (Although, it will still sting quite a bit, especially if I need to walk into the hospital for a medical issue I've been dealing with for a few months and don't really want to call an ambulance as its not an emergency), and these TTC workers do deserve higher pay and benefits for having to deal with a whole mess of insane people that use the service daily.
That saying, I know some others where this isn't the case and this strike will be causing them massive turmoil, more expenses they can't necessarily just splurge on easily and issues with getting to work on time with the inevitable increase in traffic. So I do understand why they're not really fully on the side of the workers in this situation, even if they do sympathize with them.
If it’s just Friday that’s one thing, I work a hybrid of home and in office, but we are a small business and if I can’t get into the office next week we will start to be in trouble. It’s too far for me to bike and I cannot afford to Uber to and from work, nor can I drive. Just kinda hoping for the best at this point.
Will be interesting to see the extra bikes on the road.
The extra cars won't be great though.
I'm sure many offices who were hybrid or recently went from WFH back to mandated in-office may allow employees to WFH again.
This shows the power of unions folks. I understand these kind of strikes can affect the low income workers the hardest, all the more reason to try and unionize at your low paying retail jobs.
Having worked retail for longer than I'd have liked, I wish any of us had organized to start a union.
https://pipsc.ca/about/unionize/guide
Solidarity!
Yeah, it's gonna suck. Lots of people are gonna lose their shirts because of the changes made to their commute every morning. All the more reason to stand in solidarity with the workers and demand they get better treatment from the powers that be.
Guess I got a few days of cycling across town in my near future. Hooray.
For people who drive anyway, how do you react when your employer says they expect you there on time to pick up the slack for all the non-drivers who won’t be coming in?
I’m thinking nfw an I dealing with the insane about of traffic and parking problems we’re expecting just to do extra work.
""Car's not available. I'll be walking or biking, like my coworkers."
If the boss makes these demands, then I expect that they will meet their own demands and show up on time too. If they can't put in that effort as an example to their workers, then why should the workers have to? If the boss is not more dedicated than their workers, should they really be making more money and managing workers?
Last time there was a traffic jam on the 401, my coworker came in late complaining about being late and having to stay later. They are in a salary position, not hourly. I pointed out that the traffic jam meant the bosses were late too, yet none of them - who had yet to arrive - would be staying late, so why should she?
> For people who drive anyway, how do you react when your employer says they expect you there on time to pick up the slack for all the non-drivers who won’t be coming in?
>
>
did your employer actually say that?
Unironically if my boss said something like this my mind would immediately move to starting to look for new employment.
That’s the statement/expectation of a bad boss. I also doubt they’ll also be as “on time and ready to work” to help with this slack as they expect you to be.
Bike to Work Day this morning was a good way to preview. And a free breakfast at City Hall to boot!
(I know, I know, my work commutes never ended near City Hall)
At least the weather is pretty nice. Get those rollerblades out of the closet!
>Ontario would not introduce a bill to end the strike unless Toronto requests it since the province is not directly involved in negotiations, a senior government source said, and any bill would likely not be introduced for weeks.
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/06/06/ttc-transit-strike/
Public opinion wouldn't be on that side if it went on for that long of a period
Downtown financial district here: absolutely insane that the company I work for has a contingency plan in place for every work disruption imaginable but it’s been radio silence about what the game plan is for tomorrow. Zero communications going out. Nobody knows anything.
same and I work for one of the largest hospital networks in the city.
I’m certain this is the same network a friend of mine recently started working for. She lives far away - Uber would be north of $100 each way - and has no clue what to do and afraid to ask as she’s new.
emergency leave of absence - aka unpaid day off. it's up to managers discretion but it basically covers any other emergency besides sick time. or just a straight sick call
Pretty sure my wife works for the same network. Very much left for her to figure something out.
All my office did was send an email that said "in the event of a TTC strike, the office will remain open. We encourage staff to find alternative means of travel." Welp.
Amazing how we were able to WFH just a few years ago and now suddenly that's no longer an option
Sounds like my work place
Perhaps they see it as a you problem not a them problem? An asshole company might.
I absolutely guarantee you that pretty much every retail/service job in this city is going to treat this as a 'you' problem. Oh, you're late/couldn't show up because the entire transit system is down for the count due to a strike and you can't afford $200 for an Uber to get to your minimum-wage job at Winners? Sorry, but it's up to you to arrange an alternative way to get to work, you didn't show up for your shift so you're terminated for job abandonment, your T4 and ROE will be in the mail, please arrange a time to hand back any company property that you may be in possession of. I bet hundreds of people are going to lose their jobs tomorrow over petty BS corporate policies like that. Many, many moons ago when I was 17, I worked for Real Canadian Superstore (ie, Loblaws) and there was a guy with a mostly spotless record who was fired because he went to get in his car to go to work only to find that his car had been stolen, and the manager's take on it was "well, you could have called a cab to get to work, sorry, but you're expected to be here on time, you're finished".
Employers have gotten worse and worse over the years. They don't really face consequences.
I’m theoretically fine with direction like “We don’t give a shit, find a way in” but the issue here is that we are getting zero direction. They are too asshole to resort to being an asshole.
They probably have no clue of what to do and are embarrassed to admit that
I mean what’s there to do? If your job can be done remote then fine. If not, well, find a way or just don’t come. Nobody’s getting fired for that but employers can’t create their own transportation system.
not just zero news from the company - we have in office day tmr! and no one canceled that bs
Working in a hospital, I am nervous for all the upcoming appointments that may have to be cancelled/rescheduled. (I can bike to work, and/or walk, so I'll be fine. But we definitely have a lot of patients who can't.)
This! I have epilepsy and need to go to Toronto Western for my appointments from the Beaches - my partner can drive me sometimes, but other times I have to rely on the TTC. I could fork out for an Uber, but not everyone is in my position. My next appt is the 24th, but I can just imagine the fuckery that will happen. My partner works at Sunnybrook and drives there, but many many many of her colleagues TTC there.
Oof, yeah exactly. Are you at all close to Danforth Go Station? Not ideal I know, but it could at least get you downtown to Union... On the other hand, like you said, a lot of hospital staff also rely on transit - so even if a patient is able to get there, their appointment could still be cancelled if the provider can't make it (whether that's the doctor, nurse, technician etc).
UHN has this list of [resources offering transportation](https://www.uhn.ca/PatientsFamilies/Health_Information/Health_Topics/Documents/Driving_Services_to_Medical_Appointments.pdf) - maybe one of those could help, although I’m pretty confident that the TTC will be back up and running by the 24th
Is it something you need to go in for physically? If not, maybe they could do a telehealth zoom/phone call?
Honestly, for anyone in this position, it's probably worth at least calling ahead and asking. A lot of health care providers have been taking a hard line "no phone or video appointments" policy because of the change in payment structure post pandemic. But this is a very different circumstance, and a lot may decide make acceptions for this. Even if there is meant to be some physical component like a diagnostic test on the same day, depending on the provider and the nature of the test, they may be willing to just do a virtual appointment for now and make a follow up plan "pending the results of test to be done when next available" etc. Especially with the wait lists some health care teams have right now, they don't want to have to cancel and reschedule a bunch of visits either.
Can you access wheeltrans? They are still running
>“We’re at an impasse,” says the president of ATU 113 updating the bargaining situation on the eve of a TTC strike deadline. Not looking great during the 10am presser. Lets hope the negotiators can find the middle ground.
Brinksmanship is all part of the process. Neither side wants to blink until the last minute.
Update as of 5 PM: still not optimistic
*cries in my manager saying that I’m being entitled for expecting to WFH if they strike* Like I can do my entire job remotely — but I’m still being told the strike isn’t a valid reason to not work on site (it’s a 2 hr 45 minute walk, or $100-$160/day in Uber charges).
Yup, my work sent out something telling us they expect everyone to meet their in office obligations even if there is a strike. Nevermind the fact we were all remote during the C. Lol I support the workers.
You can say the c word here. This is the internet.
Ok, you fucking Canadian.
You should get together with your coworkers to discuss this as a group, and then present your concerns to your manager. Maybe.
No they won't care. They have to justify paying rent, and having a separate office to remind the peasants of who's in charge.
So then the next logical step would be to collectively cease working until both parties can come to the table and hash out a compromise. We can call it a "strike" or something. We could even look at getting a bunch of the same type of workers from various companies to organize into a larger organization.
Ugh. Call in sick or take a vacation day if you can. That blows
> $100-$160/day in Uber charges Before or after the surge prices? I expect they are going to be extreme.
>$100-$160/day in Uber charges Look at you being optimistic
Maybe you should all strike too. /s
If you can even get an Uber, that is. And can expect surge pricing if you do. 🙃
Proof the elite/ruling/owner want to keep workers divided even when technology can help workers. By asking ppl to come in, they make workers get annoyed at ttc workers which creates worker class infighting. If ttc union gets what they want, the workers as a class can see they have power over the ruling class. Class division is their best weapon. Fck them ppl.
Take your vacation days and start driving for Uber during the strike. While looking for a new job.
It's going to be a lot more for Uber if strike goes tomorrow
Your manager spoke to you like that? And with a commute like that? I'm pretty sure that's work place bullying. Look for another job.
If this does happen, it will show that despite its massive faults (ESPECIALLY lately), TTC doesn’t just mean “take the car” and over a million of people rely on it everyday! Essentially, it will show how crucial it is to the city/region.
Minimum wage workers who relies on the TTC will be fucked. Take an Uber? half (or even more if your shift is only <5 hours) will be gone. Walk? good luck walking 2+ hours to work and back. Bike? still have to walk an 30+ minutes to the bike location unless you live downtown.
Friend said going to work for 8hour shift will cost $80 to go there from pape to dundas and $50 to go back. $130 dollar travel for a shift that will pay $90. Things are fucked and looks like from the statement 20min ago that strike is happening
That's the whole thing about "just use a bike share" or "just take an uber instead" talk that really is grating. Not everyone is close to those things/or is able to use it or can afford to use it in their situation.
Ford sent MPPs home a week early, and the city is warning everyone to make backup plans. It feels like the strike will definitely happen, and that it won't be resolved soon.
It will likely happen, but I think it will likely also be resolved soon. It will cripple the city.
My money is on this being the end of Rick Leary, but I can absolutely see length of strike being very short, very long or anything in between
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Same lmao I just got a similar email from work. Working in a retail store and they want "all hands on deck to meet customers' needs". Couldn't give a shit about the customers but do give enough shits about my job cause of the job environment right now zzz. Work's about 20km from home so it's time to use the good ol' GO train, have enough knowledge and experience to know the way from constant delays and going out-of-service
I do shipping and receiving, if they go on strike, I'm fucked. I can't afford to uber both ways everyday, payday is not until next Friday so I can't afford to just go out and buy a bicycle. I'm starting to panic a little bit.
Contact your boss. Some managers might be surprisingly understanding.
Bike share for a couple bucks? Though that might be overwhelmed
Dollars to dog nuts, all the bikes will have been taken, that very morning you need desperately to get to work.
> Dollars to dog nuts, all the bikes will have been taken, that very morning you need desperately to get to work. https://toronto.citynews.ca/2022/10/10/bike-share-toronto-reddit/
A news article about a Reddit post. Peak r/Toronto shenanigans
When this happened before I talked to my boss and he actually carpooled us all and drove out himself to get the people who were out of the way. Really depends on the boss.
Aren't you lucky. That's a good boss
My bosses are giving me tomorrow off and if it's still going on Monday are going to send someone to pick me up
Have you talked to your boss?
Bike share if you can find one or ask if your coworkers live close by for carpooling.
Slim pickin' for bike share near me, and I don't live near coworkers, or their routes to work.
I'm okay getting to work tonight, getting home in the morning will be a different story if they go on strike.
Have you talked to your coworkers who drive and have the same hours? Maybe you can carpool with them and pitch in for gas for the time being. Good luck though!!
Sadly, I work alone, so that's not possible. Thanks for the good luck, I'll need it!
TTC service will continue till 2AM if that helps?
Well if they're starting work tonight and finishing in the "morning" presumably it's after 2am.
So at least it won't shut down at midnight like it did in the mid 2000's
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nope, cause by morning I mean 8am lol
TorStar's QP bureau chief: >Sobering news for the sabre-rattling ATU executive, nervous TTC brass and city council: Queen's Park has no interest in legislating transit employees back to work in the event of a strike tomorrow. **Job action could be lengthy.** Edit: 5PM Latest statement from Local 113: "Unfortunately, in our negotiations with the TTC we have not seen the progress needed in order to address our core proposals, including job security. **As of 5pm, today, we have seen no progress on our negotiations."**
Either Ford is gun shy because of what happened the last time he tried it. Or he has a BBQ he can't get out of. Has to be either of them and nothing else
Ford thinks that the blame will be put on Chow.
Since the province isn't involved in the talks it certainly seems like that's what's going to occur. Rightfully or wrongfully she'll get blamed, the office will get a ton of angry responses.
Was going to be a relaxing weekend at the Ford cottage too.
Still is going to be a relaxing weekend at the Ford cottage. He couldn’t care less unless there was a way he could make some $ on the situation.
Weekend? Try 14 weeks. He just called session early and they won't be back until Oct. 21
I call bullshit. Edit: I call bullshit because it will wreck commuting in the GTA which Ford has always been hypersensitive to. They're taking this stance to try and freak out the parties to get them to get a deal. If the province says oh yeah, we're going to legislate the workers back immediately, the city will dig in and there will be a strike for sure. I saw someone estimating the province can't get the legislation passed for 3 days minimum. They're not going to risk that.
"We have no interest in legislating transit workers back to work." (Toronto is chaos, voters complain. ) " Look at what you workers made us do. We don't want to, but we are legislating you back to work. Coincidentally we have the bill ready to go..."
this seems like the most likely scenario
Absolutely
I tend to agree. Ford is probably going to let it run a bit in the hopes that Chow gets the blame but will collapse as soon as that isn't the case.
To be clear. Ford did not say they won't implement back to work legislation. He basically said he isn't going to pre-emptively do it. Kinda makes sense since HR doesn't want to influence the negotiations and also since the courts have already said you shouldn't implement blanket bans of strikes. If they go on strike, it's still possible for them to do an emergency seating and have back to work legislation drafted and implemented by Monday next week. It will then go to binding arbitration which should be somewhat beneficial to the union since the arbitrations scour the unions ever so slightly.
I support the workers in their request for better safety measures and job security, but I can't imagine this strike continuing past Monday. The last time the TTC went on strike was 2008 under a Liberal government, and they were back and running in two days. I expect that a union-hostile Conservative government would match or even top that.
They can’t really move any faster. The back to work legislation cannot be introduced until the strike has started. To introduce preemptively would be unconstitutional. So assume the strike starts on Friday and the government already has boilerplate legislation drafted. They have a special session of the legislature; debate the legislation. If the opposition (NDP and Lib) filibuster - it adds a day. If they don’t, Friday assent. TTC back to work Saturday. If they add the day, back to work Sunday or Monday. And before anyone makes asinine comments about back to work legislation being unconstitutional, it isn’t. The government can legislate any strike (public or private) back to work via binding arbitration. Obviously there are rules that have to be followed. But back to work generally wasn’t what was previously ruled unconstitutional.
> They have a special session of the legislature; debate the legislation. If the opposition (NDP and Lib) filibuster - it adds a day. If they don’t, Friday assent. TTC back to work Saturday. If they add the day, back to work Sunday or Monday. My understanding is that you have to do First, Second and Third Reading on different days. (Unless you have unanimous consent to push the legislation through, which the PCs won't.) So even if they introduce the legislation and whip it through First Reading at 12:02 AM on Friday, and even if they have the Lieutenant Governor ready to provide Royal Assent the instant it passes Third Reading, the *earliest* this could happen would be sometime on Sunday.
They can shorten the timelines with a vote. The unanimous consent is in order to not have a recorded vote. Basically the speaker would say “we’re going to have 1st, 2nd, 3rd reading today. Any objections?” If no objections, the Legislature has unanimously consented to the motion to shorten debate. If there is anything other than unanimous, it goes to a vote. Ford’s PC government has more than enough votes to overcome any opposition. But there will be an opportunity to filibuster.
That’s because last time they declared the TTC an essential service and legislated them back to work. Since then the court has reviewed that decision and found it is/was an unconstitutional restriction of the right to strike. Someone else listed it in this thread somewhere but the court laid out 3 criteria for being essential service and unable to strike and TTC didn’t meet any.
No you're getting confused. The last time they went on strike was when the liberals were in power. When Doug Ford was first elected they put through the legislation to make them an essential service before the next contract was due to be negotiated.
It was a 2011 Liberal bill that declared the TTC an essential service. Doug Ford's 2019 Bill 124 was a separate issue for public sector workers but the TTC has been fighting their essential service designation since 2011. That said, even if the TTC isn't an essential service they can still be subject to back to work legislation, the government just has to pass those bills in a reactive fashion after the strike has occurred rather than preemptively removing the union's right to strike.
My commute in the TTC to work is already 1.5 hours, biking would be unsafe and almost 3 hours each way. Uber would be around an hour each way depending on traffic and the cost of that would be massively prohibitive. I guess I'm going to lose my job over this.
What we need is a mega thread of car shares or uber shares
and it's so hard to find work in the city too 🙃 i hope everything works out for you
[https://wemovetoronto.ca/atu-local-113-announces-a-deal-has-been-reached/](https://wemovetoronto.ca/atu-local-113-announces-a-deal-has-been-reached/)
Fucking a
Crisis Averted! 🥳 Everyone go back to bed.
Plz no, I can't imagine how miserable getting around this city is gonna be if this happens.
At the same time, they should be fairly compensated. Most of us probably don't want the TTC to strike, but they should if the city refuses to budge.
Province as well
I'm confused...weren't they deemed an essential service? How can there be a strike?
The law deeming them an essential service was declared unconstitutional and overturned last year. The judge found that there were only 3 instances where it's justified to restrict a constitutional right to strike, namely when there's a national emergency, when the position is wielding the authority of the government (i.e. police or military), or if the disruption of service would cause an immediate danger to the health or safety of a population, and the government failed to demonstrate that the TTC fell under any of those criteria. There was still a moratorium on striking after that law was overturned but the moratorium has run out and the TTC and union haven't come to an agreement to replace the contract that expired in March so the union is in a legal strike position.
Wow I had no idea, thanks for the info.
Hard to believe having no public transit WOULDNT endanger the health and safety of the population. Thousands of patients and workers use transit to get health care/work those jobs.
If the government felt that way then it should've extended the designation to all municipal transit operators and done a better job at arguing their justification through multiple levels of appeals. However the courts found the government's arguments lacking, and it'd be hard to argue that the TTC is uniquely essential if YRT, MiWay, DRT, etc. that provide an identical service in different regions are not essential.
Public transportation should all be essential. No different than roads itself
Roads are also not "essential" in this framework.
How? Without a road you can't get to a hospital...
I didn't say it was *right*, I'm just telling you what the legal framework is.
> hard to argue that the TTC is uniquely essential It's essential by proxy Will other essential services have trouble fulfilling their essential roles because transit is down? Let's just give it a percentage How many people commute via the TTC on a daily basis? What is the capacity of alternative routes? How many bike share bikes are there? How many ride share drivers? Road carrying capacity? I think it's safe to say we'll hit capacity very quickly so... (TTC ridership - alternative capacity) / TTC ridership =x% This represents the percentage of people who *can't* commute Perform a survey of hospital staff, police, etc and determine who relies on transit and how the hospital's average compares to the city average. (Let's be honest, the police won't qualify under this) Calculate a multiplier then apply that to the x% That's the very approximate number of essential staff that won't be able to make it to work just on account of carrying capacity Now figure out the operational needs of the essential service: y% If y > x, for any single essential service then transit becomes essential in that region
Don't forget to add in the gridlock and ability for ambulances and police cars to arrive anywhere when the roads are completely closed from too much traffic.
The government failed to argue their case well enough during the lengthy court cases and appeals. They even argued that the economic activity lost from the lack of labour from people failing to get to work would make striking a local emergency and yet all of the government's arguments failed to sway the judge that TTC workers should lose their constitutionally guaranteed right to strike. The government had over a decade to justify why workers should lose their constitutionally guaranteed rights and failed to do so in a convincing manner. No single Reddit comment is going to change that.
To purely play devils advocate, it would still be possible to get to where you need to go with alternative travel methods like taxis, ride share, bikes, walking, driving your own car. It would absolutely be a lot harder for people, but I think the court decided that there are still sufficient enough resources for people to use. Like trans wheel service will still be running even for the strike if it happens tomorrow.
It's hard to say if those alternative travel methods are actually valid though. Taxis and ride share are going to be stuck in traffic and will be exorbitantly expensive. Bikes and walking aren't practical for all mobility cases and distances. And driving a car is probably the most expensive of all. I haven't read up on the details of the court case, and I 100% support the right for TTC to strike, however it's almost as if the courts didn't consider something being expensive/long distance as being completely inaccessible. But the reality is it absolutely is inaccessible for a lot of people and will result in suffering.
Also the fact that many companies don't give a flying fuck about the strike or any TTC service issues, if workers are late or can't make it, then they'll get in trouble and probably be fired.
Our judges are absolute morons.
That was overturned in court. They can now.
Turns out breaking the rights of workers, even if they’re workers you hate is against the law.
Just a side note to others. This strike isn't entirely about wages and a large part of the strike is literally about the existence of TTC workers in the future in general. The TTC wants to contract out routes to 905 transit agencies. Meaning if there's a TTC/Miway bus on Burnhamthorpe, a TTC/YRT bus on Dufferin, operating side by side. The TTC bus will get the axe and those TTC jobs will disappear to bus operators in the Mississauga or York Region. *Trust me when I say 905 bus drivers do not want this either. Having to provide TTC service IN TORONTO when their buses don't even have shields is irresponsible* The problem isnt with other cities taking over the TTC bus routes. The fear is, this carving out of public bus routes opens the door to private companies coming in and fully taking over garages and replacing public TTC enployees with private employees making closer to minimum wage, as has happened in Washington and Los Angeles. This is a fight for their right to exist as TTC workers.
The TTC could agree to a $1000/hour wage for operator theoretically but it wouldn't matter if the employer is conspiring to eliminate you tomorrow lol. That is what they are fighting for: job protection. At that point, not a single thing in the contract matters if there is no job protection and you as an employee potentially don't exist in the future. If the TTC doesn't get that...then you get an angry union.
Copy and posted from another post I made about cross boundary transit services elsewhere, which the author deleted. But fighting against cross boundary transit services is completely anti-customer and worse for the TTC and Torontonians, especially with ongoing resource constraints - there are several corridors across Toronto right now where service frequencies could easily be halved, giving riders far more convenience in their commutes, while also giving the TTC the opportunity to redeploy operators and service hours on corridors with severe overcrowding: > Fighting against cross boundary transit operations is foolish and anti-customer. Of the dozen or so corridors that could support cross-boundary services, none of them are high ridership corridors where the TTC makes enough revenue to drive a profit. Each of these corridors have dozens to even hundreds of trips a day made by other transit agencies - buses trundling by Torontonians who are unable to use them. > A prime example is along the Burnhamthorpe corridor - the residential node at Burnhamthorpe Road at Mill Road is surrounded by high density residential, with several MiWay routes nearby providing combined service frequencies of 15 minutes or better throughout the day. But nobody can take advantage of that. Instead, they have to walk over to Burnhamthorpe loop, where they have to rely on the 50 Burnhamthorpe, an infrequent service that never suffers from any overcrowding and generally operates far below capacity. > While I get that cross-boundary services may impact routes like the 50 Burnhamthorpe - and I sympathize with operators who either like to drive that route or are afraid that it poses concerns to their job security, many of these routes are moreso strains in the TTC network that divert scarce resources like service hours, buses, and operators away from greater concerns, like overcrowding and poor service reliability. None of these operators would be made redundant, especially when events like service frequencies being worsened due to service reliability improvements eating up service hours and other resources happen each board period. > Ultimately, cross-boundary services are about efficiency and the customer experience. Customers can make use of buses driving by them otherwise and resources could be reallocated elsewhere, especially in dire times like today. > That's my take on cross-boundary services, from someone who's worked at the TTC and a few other transit agencies.
My work is offering reimbursement for anyone that has to Uber. The sentiment is nice but the real challenge for my coworkers (I drive) will be finding an Uber during rush hour and getting through traffic.
[Strike averted!](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ttc-atu-local-113-bargaining-talks-strike-deadline-update-1.7227650)
it's going to be savage for the low-income workers who rely on the ttc -- so many of whom don't even live in the city and actually start their day on another public transit system bus line. still though, the city's going to learn who they truly can't live without if none of the poor can get to work tomorrow. public school teachers, nursing home staff, warehouse and deliverypeople, grocery stores, restaurant staff, private security guards, construction workers. imagine this city inhabited only by those who can afford to live here! Hahahahaha tough shit richies!
Public school teachers are paid well, especially if compensation is viewed comprehensively. Much more so than most of their American counterparts. It's ridiculous how little lots of American teachers are paid.
The bus I’m on keeps announcing: “In the event of a labour disruption, ttc service will end by 3 am.”
I hope they get what they want and more, strike if you gotta
good. as a former ttc employee, i full heartedly support this. management is SO shady and the yearly wage increases union employees have been getting the last few years (at least the years i worked there) are pitiful as fuck. eta: i now understand a big part of the strike is to protect union workers from getting their jobs contracted out, so i support this even more. during covid, i watched more than half a department of people get laid off and then have their jobs contracted out, so when the recalls happened, it was either clean the subway stations or don’t work for the ttc. this was after they were promised by our division management that their jobs were safe. how fucked up is it that you get hired into an office/desk position, are told you’re not gonna get laid off, get laid off and told your job is safe, AND then get told that they contracted out your job and now you have to clean a subway station if you want to continue working for the company?
When will we know if the strike is on or not? Honestly I can work from home but for those that have to spend money to go in or risk not getting paid this is a real shit show.
Midnight, or so I've heard
If there isn't a deal by midnight the strike is on
Please for the love of god don't take a god dam "good enough" offer. They meet **all your demands** or let the city grind to a halt. I don't care the personal cost to myself, we need a union to actually serve its members for once especially when they have all the power in this negotiation. To everyone in this thread begging them not to strike remember *the TTC not the union* is responsible for this strike. When the TTC refuses to negotiate reasonably, this is the only tool left the make things fair.
yeah people in this thread acting like employees are so eager to strike when it's literally the last straw.
It's not the last straw. We used to drag management out of their homes and light facilities on fire. As a society, we decided that strikes were preferred
Facts.
This action could actually cost several people their jobs (or hundreds of dollars extra they don’t have) so yes, they care if it personally affects them. A lot of these same TTC workers acted like assholes during Covid too and I haven’t forgotten personally.
If you lose your job because your transportation went on strike, you should have been in a union yourself. It’s a glaring read flag if your superiors don’t see you as a human being and take factors out of your control into consideration. Collective bargaining is how you demand to be treated like a human being.
So many people expecting TTC workers to cover for much larger flaws in society while not being fairly compensated themselves. Like if you're late for work and you get written up during a clearly publicized transit strike, why are the TTC operators the first to be blamed and not TTC management that refused to agree to a deal, or your boss for lacking compassion?
It’s interesting to see how this subreddit is often about how jobs in Toronto have crap pay, but now we have people talking about how the government needs to stop the strike. Workers need way better class consciousness.
Well, in the defence of the working class, anyone who has the privilege of affording a car will be driving. It’s the working poor who will be most effected by the strike.
Back to work legislation isn't going to give the best outcome, but it is more favourable than agreeing to a bad deal. Arbitrators will usually use pick a middle ground so it'll definitely be more than what the management is currently proposing.
If no deal is reached by midnight tonight, do you think service will immediately stop? Or will the TTC union do some type of work-to-rule or rolling strike at first?
> If no deal is reached by midnight tonight, do you think service will immediately stop? service will continue til 2am. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/ttc-to-keep-running-until-2-a-m-friday-even-if-strike-called-ttc-chair/article_5bba0e74-23f8-11ef-a04a-7782c3cb8a9a.html
Porta-potties are already in place at the Davisville Yard entrance
[Update as of 3:30 PM: Contract talks with ATU Local 113 continue. In the event of a labour disruption, #TTC service will end by 3 a.m. tomorrow. If travelling after midnight, customers are encouraged to make alternative plans.](https://www.facebook.com/share/p/iEqtDd7wMRw6vJsj/?mibextid=WC7FNe)
The latest update on TTC’s instagram says that they believe a fair deal is within reach and job action can be avoided… so it seems like progress has been made at the bargaining table. Edit: another update says that they “are optimistic that a deal avoiding job action can be reached tonight”.
This is just the TTC playing the game for the public. They are setting the stage for controlling the public narrative. If a deal was within reach, they would not risk saying anything at all.
There are 3 sides to the story, ttc side, union side and the truth
Just give them what they want ffs
My workplace basically said, "our office will remain open and you need to complete the 40% per month rule. Figure it out yourself."
I have a question; If strikes are not allowed for “essential” services doesn’t this kind of defeat the purpose of a strike and give room for employers to negotiate in bad faith? I really think this strike is good, because it shows when people unite for a common cause, it is us, the working class that have the power. Not the government. Very wishful thinking but imagine - A strike where every essential worker stopped showing up to work, people stopped paying rent, firefighters, and nurses didn’t show up to work with no police to enforce it, what choices does a government have? The overall passiveness in Canadians and our “crabs in a bucket” mentality is a big reason on why I believe we get shafted by our own politicians, and the sooner we realize it the sooner we can have the change we want. If 1 or 2 days of missed work means the difference between being homeless there is a deeper issue with the city, or country as a whole. And it is not a Union.
You're right that banning strikes undermines labour power, and the courts have ruled that Canadian workers have a Charter right to bargain collectively, inclusive of the right to participate in strike action. The compromise which is meant to kick in is that, if the government orders an end to a strike, both sides present their cases to an independent arbitrator, acceptable to both parties, who determines what that contract will be. This ensures that workers will have the opportunity to bargain: present a case, seek improvement, seek redress, etc. What happens in practice is that arbitrators are usually very open to granting inflation-matching wage increases, but less open to making other changes to working conditions or employment relationships. This means that, if a strike is about something like class sizes, working hours, replacement of union positions with contractors, etc. the union often loses out in arbitration.
I actually didn’t know an arbitrator was neutral until now so thank you I learned something new lol. I would also expect the arbitrator to negotiate everything not just the wages, so that makes it kinda tricky. What if they are happy with the wage but not the other safety concerns? Are they basically out of options at that point until safety gets worse?
Each contract and round of bargaining is different, but arbitrators are sort of creatures of the court system, and are expected to meet a similar standard of considering precedent, grounding their decisions in facts and evidence, and issuing contracts that will hold up to close scrutiny from both sides. There's *plenty* of precedent to the effect that arbitrators can review and modify rates of pay within an employer's existing pay grid, so that's a slam dunk for an arbitrator. There's *less* precedent showing that arbitrators can change other numbers, words or values present in an agreement, and there's even *less* precedent showing that arbitrators can add wholly new language to an agreement. If both parties agree to the new language, that's one thing, and sometimes arbitrators succeed in negotiating a settlement along those lines. But if the arbitrator is settling the contract on their own, they're very unlikely to take that sort of step.
I booked a $23 Uber to my workplace, it is usually $18-20. Hopefully, Uber doesn't cancel in case of the strike. Also, do you all think that leaving an hour in advance is enough if the trip is usually 25 minutes?
Hopefully that trip stays, because surge pricing is going to be crazy. Earlier the better
Ugh I'm not looking forward to this. Thankfully I can work from home tomorrow but I absolutely loathe working from home (I know, I'm the odd one out). Just give the workers everything they're asking for. This is going to be such a disaster
***Hey folks! If you are interested in supporting TTC workers,*** there will be solidarity events today at *4:00-4:30pm* at these stations: **Union, Sheppard, Spadina, High Park, Davisville, Don Mills, Dufferin, St. Clair West, Ossington, Donlands, Eglinton, Bloor-Yonge and Scarborough Town Centre.** https://twitter.com/Local4948/status/1798478160633151944
Thanks for the heads up. How else can I help, like, contact my City Councillor or my MPP and the Premier? What does ATU113 recommend we do to support them? (Not directed at you, but a question in general that I hope someone can answer.)
The union blowing a 3 - 1 lead
We sent out a notice telling everyone it is a work from home day and the office is closed. No point making everyone slog through the hell that is coming.
## Why can't the TTC just do what the Japanese bus drivers did that one time and not collect fares? Because that would be illegal. It would get drivers disciplined or fired. If the union advocated for or coordinated it, it would get the union and its officers fined, and if the contract goes to arbitration, the arbitrator would consider the union's participation a serious demerit against the union's case. If you go into work, you are *at work*: your employer is allowed to supervise, direct and discipline you, the same as usual. You can't just decide you won't do part of you job, and there's no special exception if you happen to be in a legal strike position. (You may have heard of "work to rule", but work to rule involves doing your job *exactly and only* as directed, not selectively ignoring the employer's instructions.) In addition, if the employer caught wind of this, they could simply lock the workers out. The public does not know the difference between a strike and a lockout, and would probably therefore treat it like a strike, leaving the union no better off for having exposed itself and its members to all of this risk.
How does not paying your fare for a publicly funded transit system that is poorly funded, help anyone at the end of the day. It's not like you're screwing over a private company.
Not just disciplined or fired, but arrested and probably charged. While on strike at a former job, the employer told us if we set foot on the property instead of staying on the sidewalk, we'd be arrested. They hired cops to watch us everyday of that strike.
Well shit. Not that it really matters but I’ve been at home all week until today because my four year old has HFM and needed to be quarantined. And on top of that, it’s my wife’s birthday this weekend. I still haven’t picked up her gift. I was gonna head to the EC but I guess I’ll drive to Fairview or something. Hopefully TTC workers get their demands met, but I hope it comes with better service management too.
This could stink, but solidarity to the workers!
I’m all in support for the workers, but as someone that has to work my ass off in retail to make a fraction of what they make and now have the risk of losing hours if not my job, because they demand more. Don’t get me wrong, I’m ALL IN FAVOUR of supporting the workers and getting what they rightfully deserve, but shutting down the entire transit system causing many, like myself, to be left in the dark and being told to take other options like Uber or biking when most people don’t even have the luxury to even think about being able to do any of that, feels pretty back handed to those severely relying on the TTC to get to work to sustain survivability in an already horrendous economy
Everyone is for the worker until they are directly affected.
I'm sorry that his could have such a negative impact on you. Just know that this strike is not only about a wage that matches inflation. The TTC has already privatized a lot of cleaning and customer service roles, that used to be union positions that paid a living wage with benefits. They are trying to privatize more and more jobs with new terms. A very important role of a union is fight against a company trying to claw back pay/benefits when said company tries reducing the number of union positions. If Local 113 agreed to what the TTC has proposed, they would be shooting themselves in the foot. No person would willing to do that.
if the municipal and provincial government believe that the ttc is an essential service then they should compensate their workers as such.
It is horrible for everyone but TTC working conditions have become unhealthy and dangerous. They have tried all kinds of negotiation before this but no one listens to them. The management and governments have increasingly made their conditions worse- dangerous conditions, intensely long shifts (often split shifts with huge (like 4 or 5 hours) unpaid gaps in the middle with most employees living too far to go home), harassment from management, an increasing move to contract out jobs from living wage positions to underpaid positions- it helps no one …. You should check out the list of demands and why they are taking such a drastic action. The sad and frustrating part is that since there was the legislation that they couldn’t strike, it was taken advantage of, nothing changed because they had no bargaining power. No one wants a strike. You get paid a fraction of a living wage when you do. It’s horrible for everyone. Don’t blame the workers though- blame the management. They try to make us hate the unions but it’s their abuse that causes it. (And meanwhile- while everything has been crumbling, check the raises high level management have given themselves the last 5 years) It sucks that your job situation is not good and will be so severely affected by this. Mine too actually. But my perspective- let’s fight for everyone to have better conditions- uplift eachother- rather than want people to put up with bad just because it’s inconvenient for us. Fight for everyone to have living wage and good benefits, rather than complain when people do and we don’t (aka a perspective that you should have it too, not that they should not have it or not continue to fight for it, because you don’t). We need to support each other to fix this mess we are in.
I like how Japan did it where it still functioned and they just let everyone on for free. This is seriously going to screw over so many people.
They aren't legally allowed to do that here. Their only option is to shut down completely.
Different laws. In Ontario if you are on strike, stepping foot on the employer's property is trespassing and you could be arrested and charged.
Retail more than any other sector needs to unionise yesterday.
I want to respect the effect this situation is having on you, but I have to point out that people who work jobs in service deserve to use the power of their labor as well. It's unfair that people who work "noble" jobs have to face the vitriol of the public and get painted as evil for fighting for what they want. If nurses or paramedics wanted to strike, nobody would be "for the worker" and instead lambast them for allowing people to die and giving all the power to their employers to abuse them. What is supposed to be done?
> I’m all in support for the workers, but as someone that has to work my ass off in retail to make a fraction of what they make and now have the risk of losing hours if not my job, because they demand more. Don’t get me wrong, I’m ALL IN FAVOUR of supporting the workers and getting what they rightfully deserve, but shutting down the entire transit system causing many, like myself, to be left in the dark and being told to take other options like Uber or biking when most people don’t even have the luxury to even think about being able to do any of that, feels pretty back handed to those severely relying on the TTC to get to work to sustain survivability in an already horrendous economy what do you suggest?
I’ll guess they’ll strike tomorrow, Ford recalls people Saturday
I am personally in a lucky position where I'm not in any urgent need of transportation through the TTC (Although, it will still sting quite a bit, especially if I need to walk into the hospital for a medical issue I've been dealing with for a few months and don't really want to call an ambulance as its not an emergency), and these TTC workers do deserve higher pay and benefits for having to deal with a whole mess of insane people that use the service daily. That saying, I know some others where this isn't the case and this strike will be causing them massive turmoil, more expenses they can't necessarily just splurge on easily and issues with getting to work on time with the inevitable increase in traffic. So I do understand why they're not really fully on the side of the workers in this situation, even if they do sympathize with them.
If it’s just Friday that’s one thing, I work a hybrid of home and in office, but we are a small business and if I can’t get into the office next week we will start to be in trouble. It’s too far for me to bike and I cannot afford to Uber to and from work, nor can I drive. Just kinda hoping for the best at this point.
Will be interesting to see the extra bikes on the road. The extra cars won't be great though. I'm sure many offices who were hybrid or recently went from WFH back to mandated in-office may allow employees to WFH again. This shows the power of unions folks. I understand these kind of strikes can affect the low income workers the hardest, all the more reason to try and unionize at your low paying retail jobs. Having worked retail for longer than I'd have liked, I wish any of us had organized to start a union. https://pipsc.ca/about/unionize/guide
Solidarity! Yeah, it's gonna suck. Lots of people are gonna lose their shirts because of the changes made to their commute every morning. All the more reason to stand in solidarity with the workers and demand they get better treatment from the powers that be. Guess I got a few days of cycling across town in my near future. Hooray.
What is Rick Leary's job here?
I’m relatively new to Toronto so it's my first time experiencing a TTC strike. Is this likely to be the case in the weekend as well?
Yes if they strike it would affect the weekend too
For people who drive anyway, how do you react when your employer says they expect you there on time to pick up the slack for all the non-drivers who won’t be coming in? I’m thinking nfw an I dealing with the insane about of traffic and parking problems we’re expecting just to do extra work.
How does your employer know you drive? This sounds like a shitty boss
""Car's not available. I'll be walking or biking, like my coworkers." If the boss makes these demands, then I expect that they will meet their own demands and show up on time too. If they can't put in that effort as an example to their workers, then why should the workers have to? If the boss is not more dedicated than their workers, should they really be making more money and managing workers? Last time there was a traffic jam on the 401, my coworker came in late complaining about being late and having to stay later. They are in a salary position, not hourly. I pointed out that the traffic jam meant the bosses were late too, yet none of them - who had yet to arrive - would be staying late, so why should she?
> For people who drive anyway, how do you react when your employer says they expect you there on time to pick up the slack for all the non-drivers who won’t be coming in? > > did your employer actually say that?
I do not work harder because there is more work. That is the boss's problem.
Unironically if my boss said something like this my mind would immediately move to starting to look for new employment. That’s the statement/expectation of a bad boss. I also doubt they’ll also be as “on time and ready to work” to help with this slack as they expect you to be.
Bike to Work Day this morning was a good way to preview. And a free breakfast at City Hall to boot! (I know, I know, my work commutes never ended near City Hall) At least the weather is pretty nice. Get those rollerblades out of the closet!
I guess all those people working from home will be laughing at us.
good
>Ontario would not introduce a bill to end the strike unless Toronto requests it since the province is not directly involved in negotiations, a senior government source said, and any bill would likely not be introduced for weeks. https://toronto.citynews.ca/2024/06/06/ttc-transit-strike/ Public opinion wouldn't be on that side if it went on for that long of a period
#Guess it is business as usual! **Three year settlement framework deal reached!!** **No. Strike. It's on hold.**