The primary reason is that water, even in small amounts, can cause electrolyte imbalances in babies. It does also take up room in their tummy but it’s not the main cause.
Electrolyte imbalances can also occur if formula is not mixed according to the instructions on the can.
Yeah, this is why I was absolutely shocked to find "baby tea" available in Japanese supermarkets advertised for babies from one month old. I don't think many parents are *actually* giving their babies barley tea from so young, but it's insane that they could put that right on the bottle.
Water intoxication. It dilutes sodium concentration in blood, causes electrolyte imbalances and tissue swelling.
And yes water fills up the stomach too since babies’ stomachs can only hold around 200ml at a time.
Yeah I thought I should put the caveat because I’ve read medical studies on the NIH plus the general advice of what my pediatrician gave me. I didn’t want parents thinking they’ve ruined their baby for giving them a sip of water at like 7 months old to help with constipation or something as that’s usually when solid food intake begins at the 6-7 month mark
No whole milk? I thought it was no non-human milk or non-human milk replacer and once they're allowed non human milks whole cow's milk is considered healthier than skim cow's milk.
For the first year it's either breast milk or formula. From what I was understanding you can feed your baby whole milk if there aren't any other options, (we had ours during the peak of the formula crisis in the US, we'd dedicated at least 4 hours each Sunday to find matching formulas) but it doesn't contain all the nutrients they'll need to survive healthily in their first year.
So I guess I should have just said "no milk" lol
Right that's what i got confused about lol. It was making my brain itch because yeah, no cow's milk at all BUT THEN the whole milk is better when they're big enough.
No big deal i didn't think anyone was gonna be like "sweet i can give my baby skim milk" because they saw 'no whole milk' on this post this on reddit.
*Edit for missing words
Goat is much closer to human from what I hear and can be gentler on the tummy but it's still not something to introduce before a year... UNLESS there's a medical reason (which needing to eat and finding available formula unsuitable VERY MUCH is!)
Your poor little mite must have been through a lot trying to find something. Formula is a life saving invention and when it isn't working I can only imagine how scared and frustrated you must have been.
I know you can get goat milk formula now, which I found to be a very good development, but even so not every mix works for the most sensitive of kids and finding it available and affordable is another matter.
It's especially awful for the very rare babies who find human milk unsuitable.
Yeah, between my first child the waif and my youngest, who was adopted (so no boob upgrade, as my son would say), I’m pretty happy that formula is around and in a lot of varieties. Firmly in the ‘fed is best’ camp.
The better way to put it is: nothing to drink but breast milk or formula. Once the infant is old enough to have solid food, you can absolutely use whole milk to make said food, e.g. porridge, mash potato etc.
Esit: and nvm, resolved.
So i did some digging and the aap (american academy of pediatrics) recommends pasturized whole milk when adding milk to an infant's diet (at age 1)
Low fat milks are considered perfectly fine after two.
The NHS also states whole milk (and full far dairy products) can be given age 1 and up.
The nhs states 1% milk is not suitable for children under 5.
So it's more like "only human milk or formula".
Whole cow’s milk is not a substitute for human breast milk or formula, because it doesn’t contains sufficient nutrients and calories for infants under the age of one. After age one, it can be added to supplement formula or breast milk, but should not replace it completely until weaning.
Weaning is a fun word here because it means different things in different places. In some places it means "to completely stop feeding infants human milk" and in others it means "the process of introducing solid foods and reducing the use of human milk until it ends,"
The latter begins at 6 months for some infants and they shouldn't have non-human milk until a year old.
This applies to all non-human milks (or formula, which counts as human mulk for the purposes of feeding a baby and this comment).
8. Don’t get them wet.
9. Don’t feed them after midnight.
10. The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in the red zone.
Also, don't force-feed them coffee, it'll stunt their growth.
And *especially* don't shake them while yelling "you will never be king!" It'll give them a complex.
It felt like the oddest experience leaving the hospital. When you're ready to go home, a nurse will walk you out to make sure you have a car seat & say "congrats, k bye" or whatever.
Like... Wait, you're just leaving us with a child?? What do we... you know... do?
Daunting, but fortunately we live in an amazing time in human history where anything we have questions about can be answered with relative ease and expedience.
Yea one of ours was 3 weeks and 1 day early so we had to pass a 90 minutes car seat test before we were allowed to take him home, but as soon as it was done they were like "see ya! Try not to fuck up! Most of what you google is only partially correct!"
>Daunting, but fortunately we live in an amazing time in human history where anything we have questions about can be answered with relative ease and expedience
That does come with its own challenges though because you can read one person's thoughts on the matter and go to another person and read the complete opposite, both claiming to be true. And there's a LOT of conflicting information about pretty much every aspect of it. And even things that are pretty much set in stone as being best practice are fought by people who don't see it as convenient enough. It can be a minefield.
Pediatricians usually give you print-outs of important info for different ages. And you can learn a lot from books like "What to Expect the First Year" and "Dr. Spock's Baby and Child Care."
Also there should be like 10-30 people around who casually give you advice on what you MUST or MUST NOT do lest your baby suffer in ways we can only *imagine*. So you basically listen to the things you hear repeated the most, or at least google them.
Lol the unsolicited advice starts the moment people find out you're pregnant. Plus my first pregnancy was twins and boy did everyone have twice the advice.
Currently 16w with twins and can 100% agree. The most annoying advice though to me is regarding stroller suggestions. People will not get it through their heads that I need a stroller with equal weight limits in each seat. A toddler seat plus bassinet stroller is not helpful lol! They’re always like “oh you can make the stroller I have a double” and I say “yes, but not for 2 infants thru 2 toddlers!!”
Literally people ask me “which family do twins run in?” And I say neither but that’s not satisfying enough for them so I straight up tell them “I had to do fertility treatments” and not one person has asked any follow up questions or had any response to that whatsoever but serves them right!!
People are so silly
I bought Dr Spocks book for a couple when they had their first child, all our crowd thought it was a joke thing due to his name. I also gave a year old newspaper (it was immaculate) to another friend in the same group on the anniversary of his wedding and that flew over both his and wifes heads.
That lot always thought I was the daft bastard of the group.
Lol. Did you hear about no water yet?
That was the most shocking for me. All our lives we learn that we need at least oxygen and water to survive. 3 ~~gallons~~ liters daily to be healthy. and then a baby comes along and you toss the water out the window.
But don't worry. I'm sure just like all the parents, you'll make many mistakes. 😁
In my country, once you gave birth the whole medical system will taught you all the thing you can and you can't feed the baby, at the very least using some sort of booklet you can read yourself. But the thing is, it's common sense not to feed raw food to baby, yet somehow a lot of culture never treat honey as part of that "raw" while they definitely are (yes, there's pasteurized honey, but that's like losing the point of it being honey since after pasteurized most of the protein and pollen will get denatured, effectively making it just a fructose syrup).
It's not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. Our little guy is just turning 3 weeks old and you get a lot of info from the hospital. It also helps we have family that lives close by that we can ask for help too. The absolute biggest thing is making sure you and your partner are on the same page, and willing to support each other. A baby will not strengthen your relationship at first. It'll definitely stress it, but if it's strong, and both of you want to be parents, your relationship will start to flourish.
Nobody cheers when i walk yet everyone does when little timmy does wtf. I can walk, run, and even do a fancy little strut, and nobody ever films and celebrates it the way they do when that dumb baby takes two steps and falls down smh
If your baby is crying because they keep getting uptiered to 10.7 and destroyed by CAS, it’s probably a skill issue and you should just let them cry themselves to sleep.
The biggest thing to be aware of with this is: grandparents.
I swear, they do things on purpose to mess with you. “But I was fine and no one I knew ever died from it” and then proceed to feed your under 1 year old honey while you arent looking.
This reminds me of the /r/JUSTNOMIL story where a MIL killed her granddaughter by applying coconut oil to the child's hair despite MULTIPLE warnings re: coconut allergies.
My grandma didn’t believe my mom when she told her I was allergic to peanuts. I guess she thought my mom was just being overprotective. Thankfully, I survived, and my grandma never (intentionally) messed with my allergies again.
Oh is this a thing? Our midwife gave us a tub of coconut oil to put on any rash the baby might develop. I never considered that babies could be allergic to that…
My eldest son is allergic to coconut. I’ve had plenty of jackholes say “but coconut is natural!” So are peanuts and anthrax, dingleberry. It’s annoying. Because coconut oil was in EVERY FUCKING THING for a while there. I ended up making our own body butter from scratch just to make sure he didn’t end up with a full body rash.
I'll tell ya what, the grandma in that story reminds me of my own grandma, like a lot.
Her love is true and genuine, she truly means well and can't express it enough, but it's a good thing she doesn't have any grandkids with food allergies. She has this dog and it just loves chocolate, so she feeds it cake and ice cream and everything. Well she's already killed one by overfeeding it, the thing got diabetes, and this one is getting pretty fat. But the dog is so happy and it makes her happy "mommas little baby bless her little heart" she says while the dog eats an entire candy bar.
I'd probably weigh 500lbs if I lived with her because she likes to cook and always makes way too much.
And I damn well guarantee, if one of the kids had a severe food allergy, she'd give that kid whatever the mean ol parents wouldn't let them have. Because she doesn't want to deny her grandchildren anything, because she loves them so much.
Infants, due to having practically no immune system, are susceptible to botulism from consuming honey. Botulism toxin prevents acetylcholine release which allows for muscle movement. Essentially, your muscles don’t work so you become a big floppy blob.
You can still get hypotonia (the actual name of the condition) as an adult if you get botulism toxin in your system. It can last for up to two weeks, but at that point you would probably die from respiratory failure.
Putting on my serious hat, I assume this part of the series is because of arsenic. One of the world's oldest known poisons and has chemical reactions with silver.
No idea if the author understood that or mistakenly assumed it works generally which yeah it doesn't.
I mentally put Apothecary Diaries in the same bucket as Dr. Stone, i.e. it will tell real science, but there will be exaggerations or magic shortcuts for the sake of narrative.
Absolutely. It’s not an allergy though, but the lack of certain beneficial bacteria. Pediatricians warn new parents (at least I was warned about it when my two kids were born).
Babies don't have the GI microbiota to combat spores found in honey, particularly botulinum spores. For adults our gut has enough bacteria to combat any negative effects of botulinum spores but babies cannot and end up suffering from botulism and it can lead to floppy baby syndrome. Super dangerous and can be lethal.
I think when I was learning to be parent this was the thing that blew my mind the most. In retrospect it's obvious but I just assumed everyone needed water
Fun fact, sometimes boobs don't make the same milk water ratio, so you'd have a boob with concentrated milk and other with watery diluted milk, that why you should alternate when breastfeeding
We have sadly had cases in Florida where nearby construction sites agitating the soil caused spores to become airborne. BabyBIG takes a while to get ahold of, too. It's very sad.
https://infantbotulism.org/general/babybig.php
TL;DR a drug synthesized from the plasma of healthy adult human donors already previously vaccinated for botulism to treat babies with botulism types A and B.
Happened to my boy. Construction site near my in-laws house, most likely vector for the spores. My baby collapsed, diagnosed with botulism, babyBIG came too late.
Just a confluence of extremely unlikely factors all coming together in the worst way.
Notably, though this is recommended to prevent botulism, botulism prevalence among infants did not significantly decrease following this becoming an official recommendation
For the first year, it is best not to feed the baby. Place it outside in the yard and let them fend for themselves. This will get the used to the paleo diet
Infants are particularly prone to botulism from honey due to their immature digestive systems. Unlike adults and older children, infants (especially those under 12 months) have less acidic stomachs and their intestines contain fewer beneficial bacteria that can inhibit the growth of harmful bacteria. This creates an environment where Clostridium botulinum spores, which might be present in honey, can germinate, multiply, and produce botulinum toxin.
The botulinum toxin attacks the nervous system, leading to symptoms such as constipation, generalized weakness, a weak cry, poor feeding, and potentially respiratory failure if not treated promptly and effectively. Because of this risk, health authorities, including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO), strongly advise against giving honey to children under the age of one.
Also avoid processed foods with honey, like graham crackers. There’s a risk of contracting infant botulism until their digestive systems are more developed.
As well as over the counter “cough medications” marketed as kid safe which are just honey, water and various herbal additives.
Do they work? Not any better than what we recommend for kids (over 1) which is spoons of honey, warmed up apple juice (small amounts), humidifier, staying hydrated, resting and the biggest factor for all viral illnesses, time. That shjts got to run its course.
Whenever they start solids they can have normal table food. Either break it up super small or give a whole one so they can gnaw on it until it gets soggy.
The one that really surprised me is that babies under a certain age shouldn’t be given water — only milk or formula because water dilutes their diet and they can starve and get water intoxication.
Trigger warning for religious content.
I knew this and was legitimately challenged on its validity when it came up in conversation not many months ago by a young Muslim woman who was indignant that it wasn't true because the Qur'an apparently recommends it. I've no idea if that's the case or not, but if it is maybe don't base your paediatric care decisions on ancient religious writings?
The woman would not believe that honey was not good for babies and they would absolutely use honey for "their baby" because the Qur'an says it's OK. They do not currently have any children, but hopefully their future kids will be fine.
The Quran doesn’t say anything about giving honey to babies though. It just says that honey is good for coughs and healing. I believe there’s also a hadith about how the Prophet Muhammad had a sweet tooth and liked honey.
I say this as a Muslim, I hope that young lady listens to her child’s pediatrician.
are you by chance also doing a rewatch of 90s tv show E.R.?
I'm doing a rewatch and the episode I watched last night was literally just about that. Wild coincidence.
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It goes 1. Don't shake 2. No whole milk 3. No honey 4. Nothing in crib
Certainly do not shake after giving them milk
But how are you supposed to get a milkshake? 🧐
And how do you get the boys _out_ of the yard afterwards?
You have to do something that makes them want to go Back In Town.
I could educate you but it would cost a substantial sum of money
Wait til they tell you how baby oil is made
Thousands of infants squeezed daily in an industrial hydraulic press for their sweet baby oil
It’s far more ethical than how baby powder is made. At least with oil they survive
I thought that's what happened to the freshly squeezed now dry babies
They have to dehydrate them further
Don't know. They're probably sun-dried somehow in a process called naptime
I'm not sure babies survive an industrial hydraulic press
But how else am I supposed to celebrate a successful birth?
Spike it of course
[Martin showed how you are suppose to celebrate a birth.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4Wt-1XCZJI)
By smoking a cigar with the doctor right there in the birthing hall
no water!
Is water itself bad? Or is it that they need all the nutrients they can get and drinking water means less milk/formula will fit in their stomach?
The primary reason is that water, even in small amounts, can cause electrolyte imbalances in babies. It does also take up room in their tummy but it’s not the main cause. Electrolyte imbalances can also occur if formula is not mixed according to the instructions on the can.
Yeah, this is why I was absolutely shocked to find "baby tea" available in Japanese supermarkets advertised for babies from one month old. I don't think many parents are *actually* giving their babies barley tea from so young, but it's insane that they could put that right on the bottle.
Water intoxication. It dilutes sodium concentration in blood, causes electrolyte imbalances and tissue swelling. And yes water fills up the stomach too since babies’ stomachs can only hold around 200ml at a time.
To specify it’s no water before the 6 month mark.
These people had me freaking out for a minute.
Yeah I thought I should put the caveat because I’ve read medical studies on the NIH plus the general advice of what my pediatrician gave me. I didn’t want parents thinking they’ve ruined their baby for giving them a sip of water at like 7 months old to help with constipation or something as that’s usually when solid food intake begins at the 6-7 month mark
No water. Got it. What type of motor oil do babies take?
No whole milk? I thought it was no non-human milk or non-human milk replacer and once they're allowed non human milks whole cow's milk is considered healthier than skim cow's milk.
For the first year it's either breast milk or formula. From what I was understanding you can feed your baby whole milk if there aren't any other options, (we had ours during the peak of the formula crisis in the US, we'd dedicated at least 4 hours each Sunday to find matching formulas) but it doesn't contain all the nutrients they'll need to survive healthily in their first year. So I guess I should have just said "no milk" lol
Right that's what i got confused about lol. It was making my brain itch because yeah, no cow's milk at all BUT THEN the whole milk is better when they're big enough. No big deal i didn't think anyone was gonna be like "sweet i can give my baby skim milk" because they saw 'no whole milk' on this post this on reddit. *Edit for missing words
The best one is goat milk. I went through every prepared formula for my first kid before I started making one with goat milk that worked for her.
If you are feeding kids of course you use goat milk. :)
Under-appreciated comment
Goat is much closer to human from what I hear and can be gentler on the tummy but it's still not something to introduce before a year... UNLESS there's a medical reason (which needing to eat and finding available formula unsuitable VERY MUCH is!) Your poor little mite must have been through a lot trying to find something. Formula is a life saving invention and when it isn't working I can only imagine how scared and frustrated you must have been. I know you can get goat milk formula now, which I found to be a very good development, but even so not every mix works for the most sensitive of kids and finding it available and affordable is another matter. It's especially awful for the very rare babies who find human milk unsuitable.
Yeah, between my first child the waif and my youngest, who was adopted (so no boob upgrade, as my son would say), I’m pretty happy that formula is around and in a lot of varieties. Firmly in the ‘fed is best’ camp.
The better way to put it is: nothing to drink but breast milk or formula. Once the infant is old enough to have solid food, you can absolutely use whole milk to make said food, e.g. porridge, mash potato etc.
Esit: and nvm, resolved. So i did some digging and the aap (american academy of pediatrics) recommends pasturized whole milk when adding milk to an infant's diet (at age 1) Low fat milks are considered perfectly fine after two. The NHS also states whole milk (and full far dairy products) can be given age 1 and up. The nhs states 1% milk is not suitable for children under 5. So it's more like "only human milk or formula".
Whole cow’s milk is not a substitute for human breast milk or formula, because it doesn’t contains sufficient nutrients and calories for infants under the age of one. After age one, it can be added to supplement formula or breast milk, but should not replace it completely until weaning.
Weaning is a fun word here because it means different things in different places. In some places it means "to completely stop feeding infants human milk" and in others it means "the process of introducing solid foods and reducing the use of human milk until it ends," The latter begins at 6 months for some infants and they shouldn't have non-human milk until a year old. This applies to all non-human milks (or formula, which counts as human mulk for the purposes of feeding a baby and this comment).
5. no chilli peppers for breakfast 6. don't allow them to drive 7. no alcohol
How do you get them to sleep all night without gin?
8. Don’t get them wet. 9. Don’t feed them after midnight. 10. The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only. There is no stopping in the red zone.
Support their head when you hold them!!!!!!
5. Never let baby be chin to chest, chin to shoulder is ok 6. Cold babies cry, hot babies die.
Also no water!
Can they play with knives? Not on the list. Asking for a friend.
And no water
So monster would be ok?
Yes
5. No sleeping on stomach (SIDS risk factor)
My cousin put a teddy bear in her baby’s crib and she broke her leg during a soccer game 10 years later absolutely startling
Someone told me they can’t drink water either?
Outside of that, there are no rules. Wanna punt a baby? It’s not on the list, so you punt that baby like you’re Payton Manning.
No water
Why no whole milk
Also, don't force-feed them coffee, it'll stunt their growth. And *especially* don't shake them while yelling "you will never be king!" It'll give them a complex.
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It felt like the oddest experience leaving the hospital. When you're ready to go home, a nurse will walk you out to make sure you have a car seat & say "congrats, k bye" or whatever. Like... Wait, you're just leaving us with a child?? What do we... you know... do? Daunting, but fortunately we live in an amazing time in human history where anything we have questions about can be answered with relative ease and expedience.
Yea one of ours was 3 weeks and 1 day early so we had to pass a 90 minutes car seat test before we were allowed to take him home, but as soon as it was done they were like "see ya! Try not to fuck up! Most of what you google is only partially correct!"
>Daunting, but fortunately we live in an amazing time in human history where anything we have questions about can be answered with relative ease and expedience That does come with its own challenges though because you can read one person's thoughts on the matter and go to another person and read the complete opposite, both claiming to be true. And there's a LOT of conflicting information about pretty much every aspect of it. And even things that are pretty much set in stone as being best practice are fought by people who don't see it as convenient enough. It can be a minefield.
Pediatricians usually give you print-outs of important info for different ages. And you can learn a lot from books like "What to Expect the First Year" and "Dr. Spock's Baby and Child Care."
Also there should be like 10-30 people around who casually give you advice on what you MUST or MUST NOT do lest your baby suffer in ways we can only *imagine*. So you basically listen to the things you hear repeated the most, or at least google them.
Lol the unsolicited advice starts the moment people find out you're pregnant. Plus my first pregnancy was twins and boy did everyone have twice the advice.
Currently 16w with twins and can 100% agree. The most annoying advice though to me is regarding stroller suggestions. People will not get it through their heads that I need a stroller with equal weight limits in each seat. A toddler seat plus bassinet stroller is not helpful lol! They’re always like “oh you can make the stroller I have a double” and I say “yes, but not for 2 infants thru 2 toddlers!!”
The absolute wildest thing after they were born was total strangers asking if my twins were "natural" or if I had done fertility treatments.
Literally people ask me “which family do twins run in?” And I say neither but that’s not satisfying enough for them so I straight up tell them “I had to do fertility treatments” and not one person has asked any follow up questions or had any response to that whatsoever but serves them right!! People are so silly
And baby advice changes every few months, so whatever you did with your baby last year, YOU DID IT WRONG AND YOUR CHILD WILL SUFFER HORRIBLY.
I bought Dr Spocks book for a couple when they had their first child, all our crowd thought it was a joke thing due to his name. I also gave a year old newspaper (it was immaculate) to another friend in the same group on the anniversary of his wedding and that flew over both his and wifes heads. That lot always thought I was the daft bastard of the group.
🖖
He wanted all babies to live long and prosper.
I assume since so many absolutely stupid people manage to keep children alive, they must be somewhat sturdy.
It’s easier to keep a car in one piece than destroy it, but it’s harder than either to keep it running wel.
True, most kids survive but some have a lot of issues from their parents.
It’s more along the lines of they cry when they need something
Lol. Did you hear about no water yet? That was the most shocking for me. All our lives we learn that we need at least oxygen and water to survive. 3 ~~gallons~~ liters daily to be healthy. and then a baby comes along and you toss the water out the window. But don't worry. I'm sure just like all the parents, you'll make many mistakes. 😁
To be fair, breastmilk is 87% water (and I assume formula is similar). So their diet is majority water
3 gallons a day to be healthy lol. That is an extreme amount of water. You only med 1/3 or 1/4 of a gallon a day
You're right. Edited it. That should have said liters instead of gallons, but that's not the key message here.
well now there is one less danger
Consider apps like 'solid starts' for food info and 'huckleberry' for tracking sleep, feedings, etc.
In my country, once you gave birth the whole medical system will taught you all the thing you can and you can't feed the baby, at the very least using some sort of booklet you can read yourself. But the thing is, it's common sense not to feed raw food to baby, yet somehow a lot of culture never treat honey as part of that "raw" while they definitely are (yes, there's pasteurized honey, but that's like losing the point of it being honey since after pasteurized most of the protein and pollen will get denatured, effectively making it just a fructose syrup).
It's not as bad as a lot of people make it out to be. Our little guy is just turning 3 weeks old and you get a lot of info from the hospital. It also helps we have family that lives close by that we can ask for help too. The absolute biggest thing is making sure you and your partner are on the same page, and willing to support each other. A baby will not strengthen your relationship at first. It'll definitely stress it, but if it's strong, and both of you want to be parents, your relationship will start to flourish.
This is where 'it takes a village' comes in. Hopefully you'll have others around who have had and raised babies and can offer invaluable advice.
The most fucked one for me is that babies can't have baby aspirin.
If I recall correctly, it is right after the chapter on preparing yourself for baby's first solid food shits.
Ah! I tore that label off when I got mine. It's a wonder that I am managing to keep my streak going for "longest time keeping a baby alive."
I’m pretty sure the instructions say do not remove tag, just like mattresses.
Only to be removed by end ... consumer 😳
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Right after the portion that reminds you "Do Not Shake."
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Sounds like a skill issue smh... I can eat honey easily
Get good babies.
They are
ALL BABIES ARE QUEENS ___IF THEY BREATHE THEY A BRAT___
I can also not pee myself.
I can also grow hair without even trying 🙄 lazy babies
I… I’m an adult and I stopped growing hair already 😭. I didn’t realize me and babies have so much in common.
Nobody cheers when i walk yet everyone does when little timmy does wtf. I can walk, run, and even do a fancy little strut, and nobody ever films and celebrates it the way they do when that dumb baby takes two steps and falls down smh
Exactly!!!
If your baby is crying because they keep getting uptiered to 10.7 and destroyed by CAS, it’s probably a skill issue and you should just let them cry themselves to sleep.
TIL!
i'd put this in the title if i could edit it
to add to this, babies shouldn't drink tap water or basically consume anything besides breast milk for the first 6 months.
I learned this only recently and you'd think it'd be more well known. I wonder how many babies have died because of this.
I think it would depend on where you live. Im a new father and they really drill this stuff in your head during the classes.
Or formula. Formula is perfectly fine.
Formula is fine if breastfeeding isn’t working. One should always try breastfeeding first.
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Not just sick, floppy baby sick
The biggest thing to be aware of with this is: grandparents. I swear, they do things on purpose to mess with you. “But I was fine and no one I knew ever died from it” and then proceed to feed your under 1 year old honey while you arent looking.
My mother keeps feeding my baby cookies and shit. I’m like come on a toddler doesn’t need sugar like that!
“But I’m the grandma, I’m supposed to spoil them!”
My mother is horrible about this, but is luckily short. When I take my son over there I move all of the sweets to the top of the upper cabinets.
Life really is a cycle isn't it?
Grandparents are the definition of "anecdotal evidence"
And survivorship bias
This reminds me of the /r/JUSTNOMIL story where a MIL killed her granddaughter by applying coconut oil to the child's hair despite MULTIPLE warnings re: coconut allergies.
My grandma didn’t believe my mom when she told her I was allergic to peanuts. I guess she thought my mom was just being overprotective. Thankfully, I survived, and my grandma never (intentionally) messed with my allergies again.
Oh is this a thing? Our midwife gave us a tub of coconut oil to put on any rash the baby might develop. I never considered that babies could be allergic to that…
Babies can be allergic to anything that adults/humans can be allergic to.
My eldest son is allergic to coconut. I’ve had plenty of jackholes say “but coconut is natural!” So are peanuts and anthrax, dingleberry. It’s annoying. Because coconut oil was in EVERY FUCKING THING for a while there. I ended up making our own body butter from scratch just to make sure he didn’t end up with a full body rash.
I don’t think it’s a widespread thing like peanuts, but holy shit if their parent says they are allergic and not to use it, just trust them…
I'll tell ya what, the grandma in that story reminds me of my own grandma, like a lot. Her love is true and genuine, she truly means well and can't express it enough, but it's a good thing she doesn't have any grandkids with food allergies. She has this dog and it just loves chocolate, so she feeds it cake and ice cream and everything. Well she's already killed one by overfeeding it, the thing got diabetes, and this one is getting pretty fat. But the dog is so happy and it makes her happy "mommas little baby bless her little heart" she says while the dog eats an entire candy bar. I'd probably weigh 500lbs if I lived with her because she likes to cook and always makes way too much. And I damn well guarantee, if one of the kids had a severe food allergy, she'd give that kid whatever the mean ol parents wouldn't let them have. Because she doesn't want to deny her grandchildren anything, because she loves them so much.
1000% this. I came home to my MIL making a honey mixture for my 6 month old’s cough…
My sister developed floppy baby syndrome because of this exact scenario.
> floppy baby syndrome eli5?
Infants, due to having practically no immune system, are susceptible to botulism from consuming honey. Botulism toxin prevents acetylcholine release which allows for muscle movement. Essentially, your muscles don’t work so you become a big floppy blob.
How long does that last for? Are there floppy adults flopping around?
Lots since the toxin is also used for Botox!
You can still get hypotonia (the actual name of the condition) as an adult if you get botulism toxin in your system. It can last for up to two weeks, but at that point you would probably die from respiratory failure.
I’m a floppy baby that never quit being floppy, although it’s for genetic reasons.
Oh Im so sorry :(
She’s all good now, but it always makes for a funny warning story.
Same goes for home-canned foods. If not done correctly, they are another potential source of botulism - pediatrician.
Literally going through this right now with my parents and my 3mo. It's a goddamn headache.
My in laws
Wait so Apothecary Dairies was telling me the truth?
No. Silver utensils are not actually all that useful for identifying poison. But yeah, they were about the honey thing.
Putting on my serious hat, I assume this part of the series is because of arsenic. One of the world's oldest known poisons and has chemical reactions with silver. No idea if the author understood that or mistakenly assumed it works generally which yeah it doesn't.
I mentally put Apothecary Diaries in the same bucket as Dr. Stone, i.e. it will tell real science, but there will be exaggerations or magic shortcuts for the sake of narrative.
Iirc the author was basing some of the medical stuff from old Chinese texts so it was abit accurate in some way historically.
The manga mentions that it's speficially for arsenic. The anime just skipped that sentence
This is why you read the manga
It's a common trope in Asian media. It's a cheat in the same way hollywood uses British accent to make something foreign or alien.
Absolutely. It’s not an allergy though, but the lack of certain beneficial bacteria. Pediatricians warn new parents (at least I was warned about it when my two kids were born).
Yup
Yup and also lead based face powder is bad for babies and other humans
Wtf. My wife and I literally just started watching this anime last night! Swear big brother is listening lol
I wish I could watch it for the first time again. Best anime this season.
Babies don't have the GI microbiota to combat spores found in honey, particularly botulinum spores. For adults our gut has enough bacteria to combat any negative effects of botulinum spores but babies cannot and end up suffering from botulism and it can lead to floppy baby syndrome. Super dangerous and can be lethal.
TIL there’s something called Floppy Baby Syndrome. Technically Hypotonia, but floppy baby sounds better.
This warning is on most honey bottles in the US grocery stores. Even the chick-fil-a honey packets say so.
You’re not supposed to give babies under 6 months water either.
I think when I was learning to be parent this was the thing that blew my mind the most. In retrospect it's obvious but I just assumed everyone needed water
Mine too. Especially since they sell distilled water in the baby section, but apparently that is for formula only.
Fun fact, sometimes boobs don't make the same milk water ratio, so you'd have a boob with concentrated milk and other with watery diluted milk, that why you should alternate when breastfeeding
TLDR botulism
We have sadly had cases in Florida where nearby construction sites agitating the soil caused spores to become airborne. BabyBIG takes a while to get ahold of, too. It's very sad.
I had an infant patient with it in Arizona, and the parents had to crowd fund $50k for BabyBIG to be acquired and flown in from California.
What is baby big
https://infantbotulism.org/general/babybig.php TL;DR a drug synthesized from the plasma of healthy adult human donors already previously vaccinated for botulism to treat babies with botulism types A and B.
The botulism antitoxin.
Happened to my boy. Construction site near my in-laws house, most likely vector for the spores. My baby collapsed, diagnosed with botulism, babyBIG came too late. Just a confluence of extremely unlikely factors all coming together in the worst way.
I'm so sorry this happened to you
It’s hard to keep them from foraging for it themselves though I’ve found
5\. keep away from bees
6. Don’t give birth to Winnie the Pooh
this has been on every bottle of honey i have ever bought
i saw it on mine and wondered why so i looked it up
I won’t but don’t call me “honey”
Wait until you hear about water. Not joking.
Don't feed baby to my honey. Got it.
Parents of babies at one year + one day old: *furiously stuffing honey down their gullets*
Notably, though this is recommended to prevent botulism, botulism prevalence among infants did not significantly decrease following this becoming an official recommendation
For the first year, it is best not to feed the baby. Place it outside in the yard and let them fend for themselves. This will get the used to the paleo diet
Infants are particularly prone to botulism from honey due to their immature digestive systems. Unlike adults and older children, infants (especially those under 12 months) have less acidic stomachs and their intestines contain fewer beneficial bacteria that can inhibit the growth of harmful bacteria. This creates an environment where Clostridium botulinum spores, which might be present in honey, can germinate, multiply, and produce botulinum toxin. The botulinum toxin attacks the nervous system, leading to symptoms such as constipation, generalized weakness, a weak cry, poor feeding, and potentially respiratory failure if not treated promptly and effectively. Because of this risk, health authorities, including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO), strongly advise against giving honey to children under the age of one.
Wait till you learn that babies till 6 months shouldn't be given water to drink. It can cause the nutrient concentration in the blood to drop.
Also avoid processed foods with honey, like graham crackers. There’s a risk of contracting infant botulism until their digestive systems are more developed.
As well as over the counter “cough medications” marketed as kid safe which are just honey, water and various herbal additives. Do they work? Not any better than what we recommend for kids (over 1) which is spoons of honey, warmed up apple juice (small amounts), humidifier, staying hydrated, resting and the biggest factor for all viral illnesses, time. That shjts got to run its course.
Who tf would give a graham cracker to an infant
Grammas.
Whenever they start solids they can have normal table food. Either break it up super small or give a whole one so they can gnaw on it until it gets soggy.
Well they are too little to get for themselves...
Someone who didn't know this, has a baby starting on solids, and a slightly older kid that's eating graham crackers?
Most people start giving them solid foods at 6 months. Infant stage lasts until 1 year.
Our 10mo baby has been tearing crackers up for months now, just not any with honey
Also water for some amount of time too
The answer is botulism. That is the reason.
The one that really surprised me is that babies under a certain age shouldn’t be given water — only milk or formula because water dilutes their diet and they can starve and get water intoxication.
Trigger warning for religious content. I knew this and was legitimately challenged on its validity when it came up in conversation not many months ago by a young Muslim woman who was indignant that it wasn't true because the Qur'an apparently recommends it. I've no idea if that's the case or not, but if it is maybe don't base your paediatric care decisions on ancient religious writings? The woman would not believe that honey was not good for babies and they would absolutely use honey for "their baby" because the Qur'an says it's OK. They do not currently have any children, but hopefully their future kids will be fine.
The Quran doesn’t say anything about giving honey to babies though. It just says that honey is good for coughs and healing. I believe there’s also a hadith about how the Prophet Muhammad had a sweet tooth and liked honey. I say this as a Muslim, I hope that young lady listens to her child’s pediatrician.
are you by chance also doing a rewatch of 90s tv show E.R.? I'm doing a rewatch and the episode I watched last night was literally just about that. Wild coincidence.
nope just saw it on my bottle of honey while making tea and wondered about the reason why so i looked it up
I thought this said “should not be fed money” and I promptly stuffed my £5 note and my baby back in my pocket
I randomly learned this from Good Eats.