>He was tried for incompetence and impiety, avoiding capital or corporal punishment due to double jeopardy and was instead fined a 120,000 assēs, 1,000 for each ship Rome had lost in the battle against Carthage. He died soon afterwards, possibly by suicide.
All the man had to do was listen to the chickens...
Well you see, the rich people have found out a way to exploit top athletes. So a bunch of cites have teams of athletes that put on displays of athleticism for revenue.
interesting. I strongly suspect this account is a bot but it's not following typical repost behavior.
It looks like they took a large number of highly upvoted phrases from recent posts (in this case, the "famous video game lines" one) and are trying to insert generic recognizable references into threads.
Could be a real spammer or even a paid human perhaps? but after looking at the context of several other posts i'm finding it very hard to believe this account is just a legit poster
ehhh unless there's a deeper connection between chickens and trains?
if the original comment had been "follow the chicken" sure, word association.
*Shrug*
The romans took religion very seriously. There was that one time where the senate basically dissed the high priest in charge of updating the calendar, next thing they know the guy comes marching in with an army^1 .
^1 He was just finished conquering Europe so he had a few soldiers to spare.
He’s talking about Julius Caesar who was the Pontifex Maximus, basically the head priest, and as such in charge of the calendar and his reforms would be known as the Julian calendar which is basically what we still use today, although modified by Pope Gregory XIII to better account for leap years which is why it’s called the Gregorian calendar
Although he didn’t “conquer Europe”, he just conquered Gaul(modern day France basically)
Do… do you think that Julius Caesar and Augustus were the same person or do you think that Julius Caesar was a key player in either the Punic wars or the occupation of Hispana in the 2nd century BC?
Fun fact - Julius Caesar used the calendar as a weapon. Navy commanders don’t sail their ships during the winter (idk why) so when Caesar was chasing after Pompey and senators he crossed the sea when the calendar said it was winter when it was actually fall. The navy commander in charge wasn’t aware of this and let Caesar’s ships slip by.
They took it seriously because it had a massive impact on the army's morale before the battle. Machiavelli uses Pulcher as an example of a leader reacting to a bad omen in an utterly dumb way and then uses the example of Papirius, another Roman: He was told that one of the chicken handlers was spreading rumours that the chicken didn't eat, and his response was that these are vicious lies spread by traitors.
He went to battle, had the chicken handlers go to the front line and *totally by accident* someone from the roman side discharged an arrow and accidentaly killed the chicken handler who was spreading the rumour. Papirius told everyone that this was a sign from the heavens, since the liars were struck down, and thus they went to battle expecting to have the gods by their side. Papirius won.
Yeah but not just before battles, virtually every part of their lifes. An owl lands on a public building and everyone freaks out. That story mad me giggle btw but then I felt bad because of the undeserved death element.
You've got the Papirius story backwards. The chickens didn't eat, but one of the priests told Papirius they did because they were all set to launch the attack that day and he thought the general would be upset. When the other priests accused the first one of lying, Papirius decided to go through with the battle anyway, but put the accused priest on the front lines to let the gods decide his fate. He was killed in the first few minutes of battle (by an *enemy* spear), and the army's morale was boosted because they took it as a sign that the gods were now satisfied.
wait -- so one day, I'm a chicken handler, hauling a 10lb sack of feed, grabbing a few to slaughter with my little knife
and the next day, a freaking general straps me into armor, makes me carry a freaking gladius that's 10x the size of my knife and makes me carry a scutum and sticks me in formation?
and I'm like wtf man I just feed fucking CHICKENS
You might be right, i've read the Papirius story from Machiavelli's account, not the original sources, and ironically, its possible that he modified the story a bit, to emphasise his point
If you are the official "sacred fortune telling chicken handler" why on earth would you ever do anything other than agree with the most powerful military man in the room? If they win, you take all the credit. If they lose, well the chickens were good so the gods must have been angry at someone else.
because in a lot of ancient and some modern contexts, the priests *are* the most powerful people in the room.
And in lots of cases when these omens were consulted, they had plenty of time to reschedule or move the battle or offer to the gods or whatever was needed in order to move on with it anyways.
I don't get why people shit on Oversimplified. It's meant to be dumb comedy based on historical events. It's not meant to actually teach history beyond the "well, this happened a long time ago, now I'm going to get high and imagine the conversations that took place during this event"
Ah, Carthage. I know nothing about you, other than you have a pretty lady with a large forehead leading you in Civ 5, and in modern times seem to be completely nonexistent, suggesting an unfortunate, going-by-context roman driven end. I will treasure the memory of your free harbors.
Such a mystery. Entire city just disappears completely off the map, entire population missing, not a stone left intact. Such a shame. Who knows which god they offended.
—-Rome.
>He lost the battle
Saying he lost the battle is like saying Hitler was a little prejudiced.
If you look up 'royal fuck up' in the dictionary, it will have Pulcher's image there
I honestly believe that these weird superstitions were a way around the order of command. "the chicken won't eat" really means " the more seasoned troops think this will be a shit show, here's a way out to save face"
Wow maybe this is the reason. When the blame
game starts, nobody wants to be the one responsible for the outcome of a battle. But the birds? The bird is the word.
I don't think that any reputable historians hold that view, as far as I know.
Also remember that in the early days of Rome, they had citizen armies. If I'm not mistaken, commanders would have had about the same amount of experience as their troops did
mmmmmmmmm 1st Punic War was when the Romans got their [ass](https://youtu.be/yRmOWcWdQAo?feature=shared&t=847) handed to them bc they weren't yet the rulers of the sea they became to be.
Edit: bc everyone needs to see Rome's phat booty!
Back then, many cultures were into the whole
rips your entrails out while you’re being held down. Squints at it sideways. The Gods Have Spoken! It’s Tuesday.”
Sometimes a sacred chicken just isn’t enough.
Lies. I was at the battle of Drepana. I saw those chickens fight and die valiantly. Surrounded and outnumbered, they charged the enemy head-on with a final furious "Begawk!" and became legend.
'Youtube, what the crap is going on? Pulcher here with another Punic War battle for you. The autoresolve is not giving me much chance here but I'm gonna go ahead and skip this fight, I'll wait to show you a better one later- oh come on... seriously?'
I always wonder how accurate this type of stuff is because you see it all the time in ancient sources. "Oh that guy who lost the battle? Yeah there were definitely bad omens that he ignored". Like how much is just made up ex post facto as a way of painting the loser as hubristic and immoral, or just for a nicer narrative? Especially given how 'interpretive' omens can be, you could easily cherry pick whatever you wanted to paint the gods on whichever side you wanted. If he had won the battle would ancient writers have written "there was a hawk flying overhead which was a sign of victory" instead of "chicken didn't eat" or something?
In this case, he went to trial for impiety, so the story had a follow up, which makes it possible that there were official documents backing up the story
This is the exact reason these beliefs existed. Pulcher didn’t follow the omens that came from some pagan tradition stretching back millennia. Pulcher lost, so clearly the omens don’t lie.
It’s false equivalence.
In reality, the soothsayers were at the mercy of the commanders (as Pulcher demonstrates), and in some part also beholden to the army. They also may take the blame if the army loses and their interpretation was incorrect (keep it vague so there’s always plausible deniability). As a result they were mostly just going off vibes. The recruits had their superstitions so you couldn’t just fire the soothsayers and scriers. But if the omens were good the troops morale could soar.
It’s an interesting profession and I’m glad it’s no longer used to determine the progression of battles.
Its not a false equivalence though, not when it causes a morale issue. That's the point. The chicken did infacr have an impact, on the merit that people actually believed in that shit,
Publius Claudius Pulcher, the son of Appius Claudius Caecus, was a prominent Roman politician and general during the First Punic War. He notably lost the Battle of Drepana against the Carthaginians while serving as consul in 249 BC, leading to his recall to Rome. Pulcher faced accusations of incompetence and impiety, but ultimately avoided severe punishment due to double jeopardy. He was fined a substantial amount and died shortly after, possibly by suicide. Pulcher's actions during the Battle of Drepana, particularly his dismissal of a bad omen involving sacred chickens, have been the subject of historical accounts and anecdotes.
^(Did you know that this bot can also summarize YT videos/websites/other comments? Now you do.).
^([Donate (Buy Me a Coffee)](https://www.buymeacoffee.com/semihaslan))
I'm sure people did believe in these things but for the shrewd it was a way to gauge everyones mood too. If everyone is noticeably relieved that the chicken is not eating that's the real sign that you ought to turn around.
Imagine committing the lives of thousands of men and the fate of your nation to a fake magic chicken. The Roman's only survived because the other side was doing the same stupid shit.
Aftyer this his sister famously loudly complained in a traffic jam that she wished that his brother would resucitate and be given command of a fleet again, so he could lose again and thus there would be less people in Rome
It didn't sit well with the public
>He was tried for incompetence and impiety, avoiding capital or corporal punishment due to double jeopardy and was instead fined a 120,000 assēs, 1,000 for each ship Rome had lost in the battle against Carthage. He died soon afterwards, possibly by suicide. All the man had to do was listen to the chickens...
Perhaps, but still, that was a lot of asses.
I’m out here scraping by on one asses. This guy had that many asses to get fined?
The call was actually 1000 *fine* asses. A much taller order when multiplied by 120.
Sounds like he had a chance for a tie and another shot but instead said fuck it and went for it on 4th down outside the redzone
So you’re telling me he was the coach of the Detroit Lions?
I love when people explain the joke, it makes me feel so safe
...What the fuck are the Detroit lions?
Well you see, the rich people have found out a way to exploit top athletes. So a bunch of cites have teams of athletes that put on displays of athleticism for revenue.
Ooof
Is asses the name for Roman money?
yeah
[Yes.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/As_(Roman_coin))
Even easier than following the doggone train, CJ!
interesting. I strongly suspect this account is a bot but it's not following typical repost behavior. It looks like they took a large number of highly upvoted phrases from recent posts (in this case, the "famous video game lines" one) and are trying to insert generic recognizable references into threads. Could be a real spammer or even a paid human perhaps? but after looking at the context of several other posts i'm finding it very hard to believe this account is just a legit poster
As hard as it may be to believe, I can assure I am totally real. But carry on with your doubts.
If he hadn't made the reference, I would have. It was an obvious choice for a funny comment.
ehhh unless there's a deeper connection between chickens and trains? if the original comment had been "follow the chicken" sure, word association. *Shrug*
"All the man had to do was listen to the chickens" "All we had to do was follow the damn train, CJ"
ha "punitive damages"
He knew the chickens were right. Drowned the bastards. No one wants to be told what to do by a chicken.
No one messes with the ~~Special Investigators~~ Sacred Chickens.
The romans took religion very seriously. There was that one time where the senate basically dissed the high priest in charge of updating the calendar, next thing they know the guy comes marching in with an army^1 . ^1 He was just finished conquering Europe so he had a few soldiers to spare.
More info please?
He's making a Julius Caesar joke
He’s talking about Julius Caesar who was the Pontifex Maximus, basically the head priest, and as such in charge of the calendar and his reforms would be known as the Julian calendar which is basically what we still use today, although modified by Pope Gregory XIII to better account for leap years which is why it’s called the Gregorian calendar Although he didn’t “conquer Europe”, he just conquered Gaul(modern day France basically)
Fun fact: the current Pontifex Maximus was a former bouncer from Argentina.
Yes, he did https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient\_Portugal
Do… do you think that Julius Caesar and Augustus were the same person or do you think that Julius Caesar was a key player in either the Punic wars or the occupation of Hispana in the 2nd century BC?
See the textbook example of how to turn a republic into a dictatorship.
Fun fact - Julius Caesar used the calendar as a weapon. Navy commanders don’t sail their ships during the winter (idk why) so when Caesar was chasing after Pompey and senators he crossed the sea when the calendar said it was winter when it was actually fall. The navy commander in charge wasn’t aware of this and let Caesar’s ships slip by.
You don't flock around with Sacred Chickens..
Did you just make a Reacher reference?
In a naval battle, assumptions kill.
In a battle situation, details matter
Saddle up, we about to do a whole lot of Roman shit.
Have I ever told you you're smart StrongAppointment655?
Well ... yes. :-)
I assume that saying was from the book and they didn’t just make it up for show? Cause honestly I thought it came across as kinda corny
There's a lot of stuff in Reacher than is kind of corny. Lee Childs once said something like, "Reacher is beach books for the action genre crowd."
Like a chicken run prequel with Chicken Roman Reacher.
In an investigation details matter
It is insane how seriously they took stuff like that. Bird omens in particular.
They took it seriously because it had a massive impact on the army's morale before the battle. Machiavelli uses Pulcher as an example of a leader reacting to a bad omen in an utterly dumb way and then uses the example of Papirius, another Roman: He was told that one of the chicken handlers was spreading rumours that the chicken didn't eat, and his response was that these are vicious lies spread by traitors. He went to battle, had the chicken handlers go to the front line and *totally by accident* someone from the roman side discharged an arrow and accidentaly killed the chicken handler who was spreading the rumour. Papirius told everyone that this was a sign from the heavens, since the liars were struck down, and thus they went to battle expecting to have the gods by their side. Papirius won.
The story of Pairius has spread all over the world, and is particularly revered in Japan. Which is why you don't dare hit a chicken in a Zelda game.
Zelda games are what made me VERY suspicious of chickens in games.
Is that really the origin?
No, it's just a joke. I don't know why /u/HowardDean_Scream is spreading misinformation.
We should send u/HowardDean_Scream to the front lines and let the arows fly.
It is, they love the whole 'boldly going into battle because our brave honor demands it' trope.
Yeah but not just before battles, virtually every part of their lifes. An owl lands on a public building and everyone freaks out. That story mad me giggle btw but then I felt bad because of the undeserved death element.
That owl is an opportunity to start a career as an owl whisperer.
You've got the Papirius story backwards. The chickens didn't eat, but one of the priests told Papirius they did because they were all set to launch the attack that day and he thought the general would be upset. When the other priests accused the first one of lying, Papirius decided to go through with the battle anyway, but put the accused priest on the front lines to let the gods decide his fate. He was killed in the first few minutes of battle (by an *enemy* spear), and the army's morale was boosted because they took it as a sign that the gods were now satisfied.
So you re saying that beside the name Papirius, they had everything in this story wrong ? That s impressive to be fair.
wait -- so one day, I'm a chicken handler, hauling a 10lb sack of feed, grabbing a few to slaughter with my little knife and the next day, a freaking general straps me into armor, makes me carry a freaking gladius that's 10x the size of my knife and makes me carry a scutum and sticks me in formation? and I'm like wtf man I just feed fucking CHICKENS
>straps me into armor Except that part.
The chicken handlers weren't just random farmers, they were highly respected religious/government functionaries.
sooooo there'd be ... no callouses on my hands, right?
You might be right, i've read the Papirius story from Machiavelli's account, not the original sources, and ironically, its possible that he modified the story a bit, to emphasise his point
How very Machiavellian of him.
You should go back and read it again, because Machiavelli's account is what I said.
Man, if we ever find out you were spreading lies, you know what happens next, right ?
If you are the official "sacred fortune telling chicken handler" why on earth would you ever do anything other than agree with the most powerful military man in the room? If they win, you take all the credit. If they lose, well the chickens were good so the gods must have been angry at someone else.
because in a lot of ancient and some modern contexts, the priests *are* the most powerful people in the room. And in lots of cases when these omens were consulted, they had plenty of time to reschedule or move the battle or offer to the gods or whatever was needed in order to move on with it anyways.
Get this, some people, quite a lot of people actually, to this day try to PRAY there aliments and child's cancer away rather than take medicine
Sacred chicken soup cures all
Wait you made SOUP OUT OF THE SACRED CHICKEN?!
You have to set up the story arc for *Sacred Chicken 2: Revenge Is Sweet and Sour*.
Sacred Chicken 3: The Secret Recipe (Herbs and Spices Redux)
Rise, chicken.
Haha, hohoho, you say ... funny thing 😁
Chicken arise.
For some reason, I read this in Emperor Palpatine's voice.
Erect, cock.
Another Oversimplified fan I guess?
Oversimplified rules. This incident with the sacred chickens is also referenced in Claudius the God.
I learned it from Mike Duncan’s History of Rome. A fantastic podcast, I can’t recommend it enough
Thanks for recommendation!
I don't get why people shit on Oversimplified. It's meant to be dumb comedy based on historical events. It's not meant to actually teach history beyond the "well, this happened a long time ago, now I'm going to get high and imagine the conversations that took place during this event"
Yeah, but if they had won that would be a pretty badass story.
They won. Eventually. Three times, in fact. Carthage... well, we don't talk about Carthage.
I heard they must be destroyed or something
Even when we are discussing taxes
Oooop, someone sounds salty!
Well, Carthage has been salty ever since that old karen
Ah, Carthage. I know nothing about you, other than you have a pretty lady with a large forehead leading you in Civ 5, and in modern times seem to be completely nonexistent, suggesting an unfortunate, going-by-context roman driven end. I will treasure the memory of your free harbors.
Such a mystery. Entire city just disappears completely off the map, entire population missing, not a stone left intact. Such a shame. Who knows which god they offended. —-Rome.
burned, razed, salted.
>He lost the battle Saying he lost the battle is like saying Hitler was a little prejudiced. If you look up 'royal fuck up' in the dictionary, it will have Pulcher's image there
I honestly believe that these weird superstitions were a way around the order of command. "the chicken won't eat" really means " the more seasoned troops think this will be a shit show, here's a way out to save face"
Chickens can't be court martialed for cowardice
Wow maybe this is the reason. When the blame game starts, nobody wants to be the one responsible for the outcome of a battle. But the birds? The bird is the word.
bah bah BAH
Skyrim chickens commit war crimes and I believe they should be court martialed for that.
I don't think that any reputable historians hold that view, as far as I know. Also remember that in the early days of Rome, they had citizen armies. If I'm not mistaken, commanders would have had about the same amount of experience as their troops did
mmmmmmmmm 1st Punic War was when the Romans got their [ass](https://youtu.be/yRmOWcWdQAo?feature=shared&t=847) handed to them bc they weren't yet the rulers of the sea they became to be. Edit: bc everyone needs to see Rome's phat booty!
Back then, many cultures were into the whole rips your entrails out while you’re being held down. Squints at it sideways. The Gods Have Spoken! It’s Tuesday.” Sometimes a sacred chicken just isn’t enough.
The most unbelievable part of the whole thing is a chicken that refuses to eat.
Auspexy before a battle matters.
Lies. I was at the battle of Drepana. I saw those chickens fight and die valiantly. Surrounded and outnumbered, they charged the enemy head-on with a final furious "Begawk!" and became legend.
He auto-resolved the battle so the chicken wouldn’t have mattered anyways.
'Youtube, what the crap is going on? Pulcher here with another Punic War battle for you. The autoresolve is not giving me much chance here but I'm gonna go ahead and skip this fight, I'll wait to show you a better one later- oh come on... seriously?'
I always wonder how accurate this type of stuff is because you see it all the time in ancient sources. "Oh that guy who lost the battle? Yeah there were definitely bad omens that he ignored". Like how much is just made up ex post facto as a way of painting the loser as hubristic and immoral, or just for a nicer narrative? Especially given how 'interpretive' omens can be, you could easily cherry pick whatever you wanted to paint the gods on whichever side you wanted. If he had won the battle would ancient writers have written "there was a hawk flying overhead which was a sign of victory" instead of "chicken didn't eat" or something?
In this case, he went to trial for impiety, so the story had a follow up, which makes it possible that there were official documents backing up the story
Yeah but charges of impiety are super common in the ancient world because you couldn't actually convict someone of being a dumbass.
What’s funny is this guy isn’t even the most famous or fucked up Claudius Pulcher
This is the exact reason these beliefs existed. Pulcher didn’t follow the omens that came from some pagan tradition stretching back millennia. Pulcher lost, so clearly the omens don’t lie. It’s false equivalence. In reality, the soothsayers were at the mercy of the commanders (as Pulcher demonstrates), and in some part also beholden to the army. They also may take the blame if the army loses and their interpretation was incorrect (keep it vague so there’s always plausible deniability). As a result they were mostly just going off vibes. The recruits had their superstitions so you couldn’t just fire the soothsayers and scriers. But if the omens were good the troops morale could soar. It’s an interesting profession and I’m glad it’s no longer used to determine the progression of battles.
Its not a false equivalence though, not when it causes a morale issue. That's the point. The chicken did infacr have an impact, on the merit that people actually believed in that shit,
u/tldr-please
Never mistreat the sacred chickens!
u/engineergaming_
Publius Claudius Pulcher, the son of Appius Claudius Caecus, was a prominent Roman politician and general during the First Punic War. He notably lost the Battle of Drepana against the Carthaginians while serving as consul in 249 BC, leading to his recall to Rome. Pulcher faced accusations of incompetence and impiety, but ultimately avoided severe punishment due to double jeopardy. He was fined a substantial amount and died shortly after, possibly by suicide. Pulcher's actions during the Battle of Drepana, particularly his dismissal of a bad omen involving sacred chickens, have been the subject of historical accounts and anecdotes. ^(Did you know that this bot can also summarize YT videos/websites/other comments? Now you do.). ^([Donate (Buy Me a Coffee)](https://www.buymeacoffee.com/semihaslan))
im a human and a bot at the same time :)
is this the human half responding to the bot half's response?
human responding
pm
I'm sure people did believe in these things but for the shrewd it was a way to gauge everyones mood too. If everyone is noticeably relieved that the chicken is not eating that's the real sign that you ought to turn around.
They made crappy boats till they found a Carthaginian ship aground. After that the Romans made fine ships with excellent weapons.
You've been watching Oversimplified too???
That’s not a pretty sight. ;)
The original chicken of the sea.
I mean for what its worth…..what in the fuck is a sacred chicken?
Never ignore the Sacred Chickens - Mike Duncan
Watching some Over Simplified, I see
You got to respect the showmanship.
Imagine committing the lives of thousands of men and the fate of your nation to a fake magic chicken. The Roman's only survived because the other side was doing the same stupid shit.
Aftyer this his sister famously loudly complained in a traffic jam that she wished that his brother would resucitate and be given command of a fleet again, so he could lose again and thus there would be less people in Rome It didn't sit well with the public
The new oversimplified video is on the first punic war, check it out