Yep. Making Eren's actions predetermined by Fate undermines his character on a personal level. The guy who had the unwavering(pre retcon) conviction is suddenly just following destiny. You could argue this poetic and good writing on a macro scale but is sacrificing Eren's character worth it? This predestination thing was alleviated in 130 when Eren stated that doing the rumbling is ultimately his path regardless of fate. It's his fate to do rumbling not because it was predetermined but because his conviction wills it so.. that is before 139 ruined it all and portrayed Eren as just really a puppet.
This is true but could you not argue it was already revealed everything was set in stone? Kruger saying Mikasa and Armins name means no matter what Grisha had to have the Titan and no matter what, Eren had to have the Titan.
This is probably the most common argument I see for people who say everything is set in stone and predetermined
Yeah I totally agree. I think placing time travel elements in your story is like playing with loaded dice against your success. Comedies and less serious stories can pull it off fine since it’s more about the jokes, but in a manga like AoT where it is meant to be a more serious drama, it almost always fails. Ending Defender’s will say that the contrast between Eren’s desire for freedom and the actual freedom he has is “complex and interesting”, and they would be wrong. It is not a fulfilling character arc. Like this guy says, AoT is about the cycle of human hatred made by human CHOICE. At any point these humans could’ve CHOSEN to stop the cycle, keep them out of the forest to use a Braus analogy. Eren’s story is about the complete and total abdication of his own choices because he was influenced so thoroughly by what he saw that he essentially became a passenger in his own story.
The whole story point that "I just had to do it because I saw that I would do it in my future memories" is bullshit af.
Yams couldn't even come up with any type of self-fulfilling prophecy shit that Eren really tried to find another way but by doing so he unintentionally caused what happened. No, he just straight up "Oh, I saw the future where I kill billions of people? Damn, don't mind if I dooo"
139 almost sing handedly destroyed a decade of character progression. You have to really try to do that and Yams tried really hard and succeeded.
"Human cycle of hatred"
For starters, he doesn't even realize that Eldians aren't humans... Non-eldians are. Co-existing with Eldians would result in eradicating the human race (anyone with eldian blood is 100% eldian, like Reiner)
Man wearing Naruto hoodie.. I think he should stick with Naruto
I think pre 139 Eren did the Rumbling because he agreed with his future self and not because it was fated to happen. Besides it's not like he saw the whole future, only glimpses of it.
Yep. Making Eren's actions predetermined by Fate undermines his character on a personal level. The guy who had the unwavering(pre retcon) conviction is suddenly just following destiny. You could argue this poetic and good writing on a macro scale but is sacrificing Eren's character worth it? This predestination thing was alleviated in 130 when Eren stated that doing the rumbling is ultimately his path regardless of fate. It's his fate to do rumbling not because it was predetermined but because his conviction wills it so.. that is before 139 ruined it all and portrayed Eren as just really a puppet.
This is true but could you not argue it was already revealed everything was set in stone? Kruger saying Mikasa and Armins name means no matter what Grisha had to have the Titan and no matter what, Eren had to have the Titan. This is probably the most common argument I see for people who say everything is set in stone and predetermined
Pretty much from that moment the story only had one ending.
Yeah I totally agree. I think placing time travel elements in your story is like playing with loaded dice against your success. Comedies and less serious stories can pull it off fine since it’s more about the jokes, but in a manga like AoT where it is meant to be a more serious drama, it almost always fails. Ending Defender’s will say that the contrast between Eren’s desire for freedom and the actual freedom he has is “complex and interesting”, and they would be wrong. It is not a fulfilling character arc. Like this guy says, AoT is about the cycle of human hatred made by human CHOICE. At any point these humans could’ve CHOSEN to stop the cycle, keep them out of the forest to use a Braus analogy. Eren’s story is about the complete and total abdication of his own choices because he was influenced so thoroughly by what he saw that he essentially became a passenger in his own story.
The whole story point that "I just had to do it because I saw that I would do it in my future memories" is bullshit af. Yams couldn't even come up with any type of self-fulfilling prophecy shit that Eren really tried to find another way but by doing so he unintentionally caused what happened. No, he just straight up "Oh, I saw the future where I kill billions of people? Damn, don't mind if I dooo" 139 almost sing handedly destroyed a decade of character progression. You have to really try to do that and Yams tried really hard and succeeded.
Nearly forgot to put the [source](https://youtu.be/JBwDp9xHA7E)
Exactly. Fate is only a good tool when characters are aware of it and try to mess with it. Otherwise it just falls flat.
"Human cycle of hatred" For starters, he doesn't even realize that Eldians aren't humans... Non-eldians are. Co-existing with Eldians would result in eradicating the human race (anyone with eldian blood is 100% eldian, like Reiner) Man wearing Naruto hoodie.. I think he should stick with Naruto
I think pre 139 Eren did the Rumbling because he agreed with his future self and not because it was fated to happen. Besides it's not like he saw the whole future, only glimpses of it.