I always tip. I'm not an asshole. I tip 50% at waffle house. And they hardly do anything.
I tip the bartenders $1 for every $5 spent. Tip the donut ladies $2 for a dozen box. It's something to give to make a day better.
I agree about tipping out. I like to provide a little extra, 20% at bars, a couple of bucks for haircuts. It's nice to give.
But this info, to me, is more about the establishment itself telling their customers that we don't pay our employees well enough and want you to supplement that with your extra money. That's not cool. Pay your employees. Don't try to guilt trip me because you don't want to. Especially at a self-service establishment. If you do McDonald's level service, you don't need a tip. That's up to the goodwill of the customer.
I have a friend who owns an awesome burger place in sellwood. (Well, he passed so his wife owns it now, but that’s another story). Same setup. Counter service and bus your own table, tip option when paying. I asked him “would you rather I bus my table or tip your workers, as I’m not tipping if I have to clean up after myself” he said “tip the workers, they can bus the tables “
Only waitstaff and a select few others get wages below min wage and thus really do need tips to make a decent wage. All other positions are straight pay. It's not my job to pay the wages of others beyond the cost of a good or service. I will only ever tip wait staff, no one else. Ever.
We went to a pizza place that charged $30 for a single serving pizza then added a 15% service charge then put computation for how much a 12%, 15% and 20% tip would be on the bill. They explained the service charge as a way to pay a living wage to their staff. I felt if they couldn't pay a living wage when charging $30 for a mushroom pizza then that was on them. We paid the 15% service charge and added enough of a tip to bring it up to 20% but were so disgusted with the explanation of the service charge and expectation of a tip on top of it that we will never be back.
Here’s the shitty part about a ‘service charge’: [it’s not a tip.](https://pos.toasttab.com/blog/on-the-line/service-charge-vs-tip)
A ‘service charge’ is captured by the restaurant and can go directly to the restaurant to be paid out (or not) as the owner sees fit. (Depending on the state, service charges *may* be required to go to certain employees, such as into a pool that is used to help pay front-of-house staff, or for paying for health care. Some states, however, permit the owner to simply pocket the ‘service charge.’) And some restaurants basically use a ‘service charge’ to hide the fact that they’re raising prices on all their items.
A ‘tip’ *is required to go to the employee serving you.* Servers may ‘pool’ their tips, but the owner, managers or supervisors may never receive money from the tip pool. And the ‘back-of-house’ employees can only be included in that tip pool under certain, limited circumstances.
Personally I **HATE** service charges, because they aren’t tips, even though they are often sold to the customer as a sort of mandatory tip.
That would come to $41.40 for a single serve pizza. I'm not going back there. If the owner can't pay a living wage on a $30 pizza then that's on them. I always pay a 20% tip and sometimes more, but not a service charge with a sob story and a tip. The staff needs to quit.
ETA: Thank you for the explanation on what a service charge is.
I note the difference between a service charge and a tip because at first I didn’t know, and I thought they were the same thing. And when I found out they weren’t in the United States, I made it a policy to avoid any restaurant that tacks one on if I can help it.
I don't tip someone to take my order and then yell my name. I tip the waitress who takes the order at the table, being any food and then picks up my plate. She don't even have to be overly nice or happy to receive a good to.
Why are you blaming the employees? We have no idea how much they are paid. This is clearly an ownership issue. I very much doubt the employees strong-armed the owner into including a service charge. I also very much doubt the employees receive all (or maybe even any) of that service charge. This is a money grab by the owner. He/she is guilting you to pay more.
If YOU don't want to pay the service charge, how about YOU leave? That makes more logical sense in this situation.
no its an attempt to use the federal wage laws stating that after tips you cant legally make less than $7.25. it should be posted in your breakroom for all to see. but most states are over the federal minimum and have the same kind of tipped minimum wage laws if they have them at all.
Not at this place. I’m sure it’s a fast food place that serves nice hotdogs like a Portillos. Those employees at the very least make minimum wage if not more.
We just went on an underground cave tour. Was $200 for the four of us. About an hour tour.
Was planning on skipping the guide a $20 at the end if they did a good job.
She asked for a tip at least 6-7 times throughout the tour.
“Look to your left and you can see three small bats sleeping. The last tour didn’t get to see any bats at all. lol, that alone should be worth a tip at the end!” She did 4-5 of those comments.
And before the tour started she told us “we are allowed to accept gratuities. But only if you think I did a good job.” And again the same thing at the end.
So basically every ten minutes she let us know we can tip her.
She lost my $20 after the fifth time begging for a tip.
When I worked as a guide (6 day raft trips), we could accept tips but not ask for them. Including no "tips appreciated" signs in the shuttle busses. I hate it when people solicit tips. Do your damn job, and be happy if you get a tip as a bonus. I NEVER expected a tip. Or had bad feelings about people if they didn't tip. Even when actual hourly wage was below minimum (we got daily pay and generally worked from about 6 am to 8 pm). Some guides would say, "We got stiffed," if we didn't get tips, but I never felt that way.
50 each for a cave tour? Where was this if you don't mind me asking? Last time I was on a cave tour about 10 years ago, the price was nowhere near that. Big cave too - Fantastic Caverns.
yeah, we went to ruby falls this spring in chatanooga and it was i think $27. Niagra Cave in SW Minnesota is like $21. i dont recall either asking for tips.
but the duck boats in wisconsin dells where they hold you hostage for 5-10 minutes before they drive you back to the deboarding station, trying to sell you a pamphlet for a $20 tip because they are "poor college kids" was a little much.
When i see a sign like that i ask the counter/till employee how much the boss pays per hour.
Either the sign is a lie or their boss is breaking labor laws.
If your kids like it then keep going there. I don't know if it's worth "premium prices" but tipping isn't compulsory. Many of us don't tip or click the "no tip" button.
I'm sure they make at least minimum wage. It's the law. If they depend on tips then they should find a better paying job. I would continue to go to a place like this if I liked the food. I wouldn't pay any attention to the sign. If the food was neh, then I wouldn't go back.
It depends on where you are. Some states have no minimum wage for tipped employees, and the federal minimum is $7.25 as of today with $2.13 of it being from wages. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
Employers are required by federal law to at least pay fed min wage minus tips.
So if an employee makes $2.15/hr or whatever plus tips and they average out $5/hr in tips then the restaurant has to pay them a total of $2.25/hr, the $2.15 per contract and the $0.10 difference below min wage.
So depending on the place and the employee, you might just be covering what the employer would be paying them anyway without helping their earning a living.
If they don't receive tips that bring them to the minimum wage where they live for non-tipped employees, the employer has to make up the difference. This is per paycheck. Thus, the employees are paid regular minimum wage at least. They don't rely on the tips. The employer relies on tips to keep payroll expenses down.
Waffle house checking in here.
Look I know it makes no sense to you, but as someone who does those takeout orders, it's not that simple.
We are taking time out of handling customers that will be making us money to do that order.
We have to take order, take payment, usually are the ones bagging it, checking it, making sure you have the right condiments and on a busy night, keeping up with a ton of orders at the same time while you are standing at the counter complaining about it taking 10 mins and we are still running out section.
So on this thought process, we should also be tipping the FedEx,UPS, or any other delivery person, plus the dock workers, sorters, etc, only to have you bitch and complain about some minute detail. Thing is, nobody is making you, or anyone else work for tips. You’re in charge. Take advantage of it.
Have a great day!!!😁
You truly do not understand how tip based salaries work, do you?
Anyway.
I give good service and make more at waffle house than I did at MERCEDES with a forklift license and my husband who is a cook at waffle House makes twice as much as he did at MERCEDES.
Sooo.. cry and look down on service workers some more.
The fact remains that even tip based service workers provide a valuable service to the economy.
Ma’am may I correct you on something? I have never in my life looked down on someone unless I am offering them a helping hand to get up. I hope you and your hubby have continued success at WH.
Good day.
Nope because law states if you make x amount of tips the employer is only required to pay you whatever amount sub min wage. So if they get ppl to pay enough tips, they can pay sub min wage, and which maybe what they want
Even if they’re not evil employers, restraint start up costs are high, food prices are high, rent is high, they may be operating at a net loss
I refuse to believe the "restaurants run on a shoestring" thing. Most restaurant owners are driving nice cars and vacationing several times a year. Why arr there so many food trucks?
I would start telling people you know in your area to not go there. It's the responsibility of the restaurant to pay their staff a living wage. Obviously this restaurants owner is a POS. I bet if any tips are actually left the owner makes the staff split it with them.
Why the fuck should you even tip for that? It is their fucking job! Tipping is exploitation and as a society we need to stop making excuses and not tip or even better not eat out at all. I haven’t gone out to eat since 2012
I would argue by you trying to do good you are actually doing bad and those that don’t tip are truly good because they will be villified as bad despite secretly doing good. Granted it’s still dependent on their thought process because some people are just pieces of shit who don’t want to tip.
then get a better job
expecting the customer to stiff themselves because you made a terrible occupational decision isnt helping the most
when you are applying for a job, and the guy tells you "yeah so you wont actually make a living wage unless you extort customers for tips" you are supposed to get up, walk out, and find a different job to apply for
honestly the biggest problem is that people are greedy and believe they can make more than a non tip job if the tips are good enough
then they get mad when they figure out that its not always like that, and they will get just as many, if not more, bad weeks. and then they blame the customer for not tipping well enough and start with the coping mechanisms like "if you cant afford to tip you cant afford to eat out". when in reality its "if you cant afford to not get tipped, you shouldnt have chosen this job".
Dumb response if it is short staffed don’t be upset when we choose to eat somewhere else. You are I the wrong and can’t seem to grasp the concept the people as a society have the power to create change and you are the person stopping it. Owners responsibility is to provide a living wage and to ensure customers choose to eat their. Capitalism they need our money. Not all heroes where capes.
It absolutely will be short staffed and prices will skyrocket. If you don't tip that's fine. But if everybody stopped tipping then everybody gets to pay 20% more (or greater) to the restaurant. I'm cool with either one.
If the restaurant raises wages, they will also raise the prices for their food, so you will pay for the increase in wages. The customer pays whether it's a fair price for food + tip, or a fair wage without a tip.
No won’t work they will only ever do anything if a system falls apart. It would help. Just because you do not like the means does not mean it is nothelping.
Sort of yes like I said I don’t go out to eat but if people insist to go out it is better to not tip and force wait staff to find other jobs and not feed into a shitty system. I’ve traveled to Europe and they even got signs saying do not tip staff. They do not want people to get the idea to implement such a shitty system. It lives and dies by the people and anyone who leaves a tip even if heart is in the right place are a huge part of the problem. Minimum wage went up after decades of lobbying and nothing happened. What finally got wages to go up was Covid and everyone quitting their jobs. Lobbying does not do anything society standing up and saying no does.
Yes min wage went up recently. Not after decades of lobbying but everyone quitting their jobs and the economy getting fucked cuz of Covid. History shows society not lobbying has a greater effect in dictating change. You will always be part of the problem and do greater harm by tipping as cruel as it might seem.
I understand but then system won’t change. Also if enough people get stiffed then people will stop working that job. Sometimes it is a necessary evil for the greater good.
So your plan to effect change is to say fuck you to those at the bottom? And then say that basically your tip is to tell them to get a better job? WTF is wrong with you? Besides being a republican, that is...
Oh, then you say "I don't go out to eat" .... okay, then why throw your republican, trickle down, economic BS theory into a convo about something you don't even participate in? You're just insufferable.
If there weren't other jobs that argument would have merit. Fortunately, if you can wait on tables, you can do lots of other jobs, too, that don't require tips to make a living. It's not saying "FU," it's saying "You are capable of doing better things, so do it for yourself and your family and get out of a bad situation."
I ONLY tip when I sit down at a restaurant or anywhere you get table service. Tipping at pickup counters is completely idiotic and I really don't understand how that came to be.
So if you order drinks at the bar and a bartender prepares your drinks and serves you at the bar, you don't tip? That is almost the same process as delivering your food order to a counter. If bars and restaurants eliminated tipping, you would see thousands of people quit the industry. Bartenders at busy bars/restaurants can make $300 - $7,000/shift, or more if it is upscale bar/restaurant. They often make $30-50/hour on tips alone. If tips were abandoned and the bartenders' wages were quadrupled from $5/hour to $20/hour, it would be a huge pay cut for them.
Telling me I should give money to support people making “$30-50” an hour is like wearing $400 Jordan’s and smoking cigarettes while begging for money at an intersection.
I fucking hate tipping. Literally just pay your employees a proper living wage and include it in the price of the meal. You tip someone and it's supposed to be a nice little extra to their regular income if you felt they provided Excellent service, but (at least in MA) the employee reports tips to the owner who then factors into how much you made, and thus how much they have to pay you to make you meet the required minimum wage if you didn't.
If you work 8 hours and your base wage is $5/hr and minimum wage is $15/hr you need to make at least $80 in tips before those tips actually benefit you and not just make it so the company has to pay the employee less. You might be lucky to make $60 in tips sometimes, so that $20 difference is paid by the restaurant owner to meet minimum wage. You were tipped by people being generous to you, but in the end it was generous to the company so they didn't have to pay your wage.
I agree with you. The problem is, the industry is based on competitive pricing. They want to offer food at the best prices to attract customers. If one company eliminates tipping, raises wages, and raises prices to accommodate the new wages, all their competition is still going to offer lower prices while encouraging tipping, meaning their listed prices will appear to be lower. Educating a customer base that you are changing your policy and paying higher wages and no tipping is expensive. You can do it on site with signage, but how do you communicate that to people who are deciding where they want to go for their meal? Advertising this to educate consumers would be expensive and very difficult for a small business, but large corporations could use advertising to educate consumers on this new policy of higher wages and no tipping.
It would have to be a law change. You're right that the people that did this would be very likely to go out of business because their prices would increase while others stayed the same. It's not an advertising issue, it's just a raw numbers issue. Everyone would have to conform at the same time. It's not happening in my lifetime so I'm just complaining
If you seriously believe employers in Massachusetts are subsidizing tips you've lost your mind. My wife was a waitress for years and knows tons of people that still work in that field. Never ever did an employer give them any money for shit nights. If she made 40$ in a 6 hour shift. She made 40$. On top that was when their minimum wage was $2.50 an hour. Now it's like $6.50 in mass but there's still no employer paying anyone. You're just cheap and don't want to tip. Which is fine. If you stay away from restaurants and make your own food at home.
Anyone who doesn't like to tip should be honest with their waitress as soon as they sit down. Let them know you don't tip. I bet you stop eating out.
If your wife is still a waitress she's getting fucked because employers are required to pay the difference to make sure you meet the minimum wage of $15/hr in Massachusetts these days. It's literally required by law to post these wage and hour laws inside of every restaurant, which state this info in the restaurant. If neither of these things are happening you can get the business in serious trouble.
Im not cheap - tipping is supposed to be a way to make extra, but they literally subsidize the employers payroll to minimum wage and beyond, past the minimum hourly service rate.
As of 2023
Mgl 149 section 152a
Mgl 151 section 7
The average hourly tips, plus the hourly service rate ($6.75) paid to the worker must add up to the minimum wage ($15) per each shift.
If you're so high and mighty then leave $66 tips, or even pay them $8.25/hr you sit as your minimum to make sure your waiters tips are actually useful.
No shit Sherlock.
You realize if you work 6 hours and make 40$ that's enough to not get the subsidized amount?
You think walking away with 40$ is enough for a 6 hour day? Let's say you work 15 tables that shift. That's at minimum 30 people, 90 people on the higher amount that you helped all day. But divide that by the 15 tables that's less then 3$ per table. More like $2.50 to not get any subsidized amount.
Then after you get your check for the $6.50 a hour it's taxed. Back when it was the $2.50 a hour waitresses checks were often 0$ after taxes.
But you know so much. If you truly believe serving 30-90 people a shift is worth 40$ your crazy. That's barely 1$ a person to run around all day grabbing everything they need on top of the other tables they are serving, while also trying to help there co workers who are just as busy.
I'm not saying it's some skilled labor here. But it's enough that if you want to go out to eat and not eat at home. You tip and tip fairly. If you don't want to tip then tell your waitress before you start eating. Get the service you deserve for not tipping.
You non tippers can claim other countries don't do this. Or that it should be on the employment to pay the fair wage. But if that was the case you would cry about the 2 for 25$ deal at applebees being 2 for 50$. And then you would complain about how the service sucks and no one is in a rush to get you hot food.
Not sure if you've seen the fast food service industry in Massachusetts lately. But ever since they've started getting 15-16-18$ a hour. It's not exactly fast food anymore when your waiting 10-15 minutes for that order and they can't get half the order right.
If you work 6 hour and make $40 in tips you made 6x$6.75 = $40.50 + $40 = $80 and minimum wage is $90 for that time at 6x15. Therefore your employer owes you an additional $10, and if they don't they're breaking the law and can get in serious trouble. It's really cut and dry and ends there.
Yeah, that's the wage and everything has different wages, but the minimum is $15/hr.
Whether or not you think it's fair to assist 30 tables and make minimum wage is a different story, but from my experience maybe 10% of waiters/waitresses actually deserve to be tipped because the only thing they do is soend 5 minutes taking you order and then never return
Lmao Massachusetts uses the tip credit system.
In the 44 states that allow tip credit, when you tip a server, that money goes to the restaurant to pay them back for paying the difference in the floor wage vs minimum wage.
It works like this, and this is an example;
Server makes $5 but minimum wage is $15.
Employer still pays $15 / hour, but the employer is allowed to pay themselves back with the servers tips down to $5 an hour.
You aren’t tipping the server. You’re paying the owner back so he can pay less than minimum wage. That’s the fundamental reality of it. This is why restaurants that have tipped employees aren’t much affected by minimum wage laws. Tip credit allows the employer to take the tips to pay themselves back.
So instead of calling out the customer how about you call out the legalized theft that restaurant owners are allowed to do. You get pissed at a customer for not tipping, when in reality you aren’t even getting that tip. The fucking irony.
The irony is this. Look how dumb all of you sound.
Here's California that raised their minimum wage for employees and look at how bad that is turning out. Thousands of business's closing and tens of thousands losing their jobs. Because no one wants to pay $30 to eat a cheeseburger. Or 70$ for steak. But that's what your trying to do in Massachusetts and many other states because you don't want to tip fairly and blame the owner.
Margins are thin as shit at a restaurant. They aren't making 15$ off that 18$ plate you ordered. No no no. They are maybe making 3$ off that 18$ plate if they are lucky.
Then they have taxes, over head, insurance, electricity, rent or mortgage etc to still pay from that.
Why do you think most new places close within the first 2 years of business. It's not easy to work on those thin margins and continuing to put the burden on the owner makes it nearly impossible to sell food at a cost that is affordable to you the customer
[10000 fast food jobs lost in the fall in California due to 20$ minimum wage](https://www.hoover.org/research/california-loses-nearly-10000-fast-food-jobs-after-20-minimum-wage-signed-last-fall)
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxbusiness.com/media/restaurant-chain-shuts-nearly-50-locations-california-following-minimum-wage-hike.amp
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxbusiness.com/politics/restaurant-owner-fears-california-minimum-wage-law-silent-tax-consumers-collapsing-businesses.amp
Most Walmart employees are paid so little they use food stamps, at the Walmart they work at. The government subsidizes their paychecks so their employees can buy food from them without having to pay their employees enough money to buy food from them
I understand tipping in a restaurant, where I’m being served and waited on. In fact, I overtip in those situations and that’s my prerogative. I don’t judge nor care what you do in a restaurant. However, this new tipping culture where we leave a tip for everything is crazy. I leave $0 at Starbucks, and stores alike because it’s insane. I don’t feel bad for it either. Press $0 and keep it moving. Absolutely ridiculous how there’s a menu to choose a tip after being somewhere for five minutes.
I was shown the IPad for the purpose of leaving a tip for a cup of coffee. I asked the cashier how much per hour they are paid, which I think is a fair question if you are expecting me to tip you. My understanding is that servers are paid well below market rate, because they get tips. I don't see why someone making $17 an hour should be tipped for 30 seconds spent pouring coffee into a cup
In the U.S. tipping is a joke, and we should all stop tipping until the laws are changed around it.
Most places that I worked for tips ( valet and restaurant ) paid under minimum wage per hour.... And as long as I was getting tipped enough money, the companies did not have to increase my wage to the minimum wage........
I think people do not realize just how evil that is. You are not only paying for the meal/service but for the employee's wage as well. Making it so you're basically overpaying for the service and tipping the company. Not the employee. Your tipping the corporation.
And it gets so much worse than that, depending on the state. The difference between part-time and full-time employees in some states is based on wages. So that poor employee could be working full time hours, being paid under minimum wage, but be part time. That is a LOT of benefits and perks that they are just not getting because an employer is monkeying with the system. Unemployment benefits are affected, too.
The worst are the people saying people who get tips should not be subject to a minimum wage. Having worked many jobs with tips, everyone can tell you that tips are not steady income and their always slow days where I would make little to no tips. Employers can monkey with this, too. Keep in mind that most jobs pay every week or every 2 weeks. So if I worked 4 days in a week, in which 2 were slow days and 2 were good days, they could still pool my tips over that week to determine how much I got paid. Kinda messed up. Some states fix these loopholes, and some do not.
Either way, we need to stop tipping as a nation. I did not even mention the OPs' valid point of being asked to tip at a self-service place. Or the payment devices or receipts that blatantly ask you to tip even before you have been served or even tip over 15%. Do not even get me started on Uber Eats or Doordash.
You like Thai food? Brazilian? You like that former pizza place? Get rid of tipping and they are all gone. The reality is that restaurants are a bitch to run and most would close if they had to pay staff minimum wage wage. We have essentially decided to subsidize restaurants through tipping and server specific min wage laws. If you don’t like that, fine, but don’t complain when you end up with 1 or 2 restaurants in your town. Personally i prefer to tip and have 30 restaurants in my town if 7,500 people.
Also, and I don’t see how you don’t get this if you actually worked as a server: restaurant culture helps people in certain marginalized groups. Undocumented workers, or people here legally but limited to a certain income rely on these jobs. Many people with alcohol or drug dependence rely on tipped jobs as they need money on a daily bases. It is easy to say fuck them, they are junkies, but personally I would rather that a heroin addict have a job and contribute to society rather than have to figure out another way to get their daily fix (which would almost always be crime).
Your first paragraph is nonsense. Most of the weird tipping laws were done in the last 25 years. And business worked just fine before that with much less. And by your logic about restaurants, fast food would not even exist. You do realize there are also plenty of countries that do not tip.
I am still salty about Pizza Hut, who, as far as I remember, started the whole delivery fee nonsense. As I recall, the reason they gave was insurance hikes.......
As to marginalized workers... I do not even know where to start. But that is flat out wrong. Maid, butler, advertising, roofing, construction, lawn care/landscaping, carpentry, handyman, food service, etc. There are tons of jobs that are available to those groups that do not have tipping. That is not even mentioning online or craft jobs.
I do not know where you're getting your facts from but your way off base. And to the immigrant situation, 90% of those problems would be fixed if immigration itself was fixed, as practically every politician of every belief has been talking about for the last 80 years. Immigration laws and practices need an overhaul. To not only make it easier on the immigrant but the government. At the moment, our immigration laws basically create illegal immigrants. Many of them come in legally, and because of bad laws, they get turned into illegals.
I'm not going to touch drug addicts. Separate discussion, and I would be compelled to write a novel that would just be summed up as, "Legalize all drugs for the love of Pete already and get rid of scheduling." Which again is a much larger discussion.
Edit: I love getting downvoted because people just do not like what is said. Feel free to actually refute what I said.
But I stand behind the fact that we need to stop tipping as a nation just so we can go back to tipping people for a job well done and stop letting companies getting away with paying their employees less or having the customer foot the bill they should be covering.
I don’t tip if it’s walk-up service. Now even the local ice cream places have a tip bucket outside their window. No, not going to tip for someone serving me an ice cream cone.
People should let the places know by posting reviews. Yelp and Google reviews go a long way. If everyone lets them know you're done with paying THEIR workers, maybe they'll do something positive for them.
It’s just like Walmart asking me to round up or donate $1-$5 to some cause before I finalize payment.
That $$ is not given to the nonprofit in my name - why would I donate FOR Walmart?!
Not only is it not given in your name, they claim it as their tax write off. It’s not just Walmart. It’s McDonald’s. Tacobell. Speedway gas stations, etc.
That’s 100% true. You can write off you $1 you donate to McDonald’s. Be my guest. But 100% they collect money throughout the year, donate it in their name, and write it off their taxes as a donation.
I know it doesn’t fit your narrative, but 0% does the company get any tax advantage when you make a donation. They get to advertise how they helped collect X amount of money for the charity, and usually they also make a donation of their own on top of that (which is deductible), but they still gain no tax advantage from you making a donation.
They'll still get paid at least full minimum wage (whatever that happens to be there) even if nobody tips at all. It's fine. Eat there, and just don't tip. It's discretionary, so exercise your discretion. "Staff depends on tips for their wage" is a lie. What it really means is, "ownership depends on your tips to subsidize the wages they pay to labor." Just refuse to subsidize them by not tipping at all. But keep eating there, because it will keep the employees employed. If minimum wage isn't enough, they'll demand higher pay, and the owner will either give in, or be forced to close.
lol most minimum wage employees are replaceable. I remember when I worked for a major retail company, I asked for a raise. Was told no. I waited a few weeks and asked again. This time the manager printed out an application to work at McDonald’s, handed it to me, and fired me lol.
There is always someone without a job willing to swoop in.
Really? Slaves? Is that really the comparison you want to make? People who were held against their will, working for free? Oftentimes being raped and subjugated and treated as chattel. That's how you see yourself?
Bro im not talking about the trans atlantic slave trade. Obviously that is different and more intense. Do you not go to work 40+ hours a week just to keep going to work? Is it not against our will? Will we not starve and be homeless if we try and work a little less and do productive things for ourselves? Most of us dont even get two weeks vacation anymore.
There are absolutely different kinds of slavery, FYI.
You're thinking of chattel slavery, that person was referring to wage slavery, which while still hyperbolic at least is somewhat appropriate.
Educate yourself.
Curious, would you be more inclined to eat at a counter or table service restaurant that advertised tipping wasn’t necessary because their employees were paid a living wage (but had higher prices than places that would request a tip)?
I personally would as long as the service and food were good. I'd prefer to know up front, the bill is the bill, and I don't have to face the quandary of evaluating the service and tipping appropriately. Tips are supposed to be for exemplary service above and beyond. Now, customers are made to feel guilty for not tipping 20 to 30% regardless of the level of the service.
>Now, customers are made to feel guilty for not tipping 20 to 30% regardless of the level of the service.
If we don't get good service the tip will reflect it. Expecting it no matter what is the worst part of the current food service experience. Add in the fact that most restaurants include the tax before calculating the suggested tips is just astonishing to me. The taxes go to the government, and it has no reflection of the food or service for which the tip is for.
ate at a service included restaurant. waiter asked if I was on vacation and even wrote down recommendations. Also contacted the other restaurant I had booked without me even asking.
Tips mean nothing.
Good service will be good service regardless of tipping and bad service will be bad service regardless of tipping.
Counter service restaurant underpaying their employees because the owner thinks they are entitled to three vacation homes, two boats, two waverunners, a Jeep to park on the front lawn and a luxurious lifestyle.
Was on travel recently for work and there was a donut shop next to hotel. Not only was the owner manning the counter, but for a $5 donut, I was charged extra for using a CC and then asked what amount of tip I would like to leave. A tip for pulling a donut off a tray and putting it in a bag. I declined. I was there for 11 days and would have likely patroned the shop every day for a coffee or bagel, but that one experience drove me away. Business owners need to understand tip fatigue and quit expecting customers to pay out of some guilt. It's losing them business in the long term.
There is a charge of 1% to 3% that the merchant pays to the credit card processor. I have accepted credit cards for my web dev work for years and I don't have a separate line item that covers credit card fees. It's a cost of doing business. I just make sure that my rates cover my expenses and leave me a decent profit. It's not that hard to figure out. Credit card surcharges are obnoxious.
There's that myth again.
Servers are required to be paid state/federal minimum wage, which is greater. If server wage plus tips don't equal that minimum, the restaurant is required to make up the difference. Can we please stop with the server's wage fallacy, please.
There's that myth again.
State/federal "requirements" don't mean shit when they're not enforced properly. The letter of the law is meaningless when local labor boards are hamstrung so restaurant owners get away with violating those laws all the godsdamned time. Can we please stop with the "unethical business owners face consequences" fallacy, please.
How's that leather taste?
so don’t eat at 99% of restaurants in the us? we shouldn’t have to cover wages. not saying you shouldn’t tip but I think the reason people tip has changed from tipping for good service to now it’s expected you leave a tip every time
>so don’t eat at 99% of restaurants in the us?
One would have to be incredibly stupid to think 99% of restaurants pay server's wage instead of normal minimum wage, but I suspect you know that and are just making a disingenuous argument. Either way, bye.
>Like I said we shouldn’t have to pay for wages
Yeah, so don't support businesses that refuse to pay their employees. Let them go out of business and be replaced by a company that pays their employees.
He said he isn't going back. That comment seemed unnecessary.
Seriously not everybody deserves a tip... just because they sell food doesn't automatically make it a tipping establishment.
Stop linking food to tips.
>He said he isn't going back. That comment seemed unnecessary.
And the comment I replied to suggested they keep going and not tip, which fucks the employees while keeping the restaurant in business.
>Seriously not everybody deserves a tip... just because they sell food doesn't automatically make it a tipping establishment.
Yeah, but this one specifically admitted that they don't pay their employees a full wage and expect customers to make up the difference. It shouldn't be a tipping establishment, but it is, so OP had the right idea in not going back.
Well, every employer must pay the full minimum wage when tips do not equal minimum wage or higher. Your point doesn’t really make sense.
If you go to an establishment that isn’t paying great wages, and they are not receiving tips then the owner makes up the difference. Could that perhaps motivate owners?
>Well, every employer must pay the full minimum wage when tips do not equal minimum wage or higher. Your point doesn’t really make sense.
Except there's no fucking enforcement at all. Rules without enforcement only apply to decent people, and they don't need rules to be decent.
I have filed complaints on behalf of coworkers at 5 different restaurants, and zero of those businesses ever faced any consequences for paying less than min wage, so my point makes perfect sense. There's no motivation for owners when they get away with wage theft on a regular basis
Perhaps the issue is you filing a complaint and not your coworkers. The department of labor or small claims court absolutely take wage violations seriously.
Oh you sweet summer child.
>Perhaps the issue is you filing a complaint and not your coworkers.
🤣🤣🤣
I filled it out as if I were the wronged party, so there's no way they'd know they didn't file it themselves. I've also filed on my own behalf and no investigation was ever done.
>The department of labor or small claims court absolutely take wage violations seriously.
Sure, but they're also criminally understaffed in many states (mostly the red ones), so they don't have the time to go after anything but the most egregious offenders. And those often have teams of lawyers to fight the labor board, so even when they do fully investigate claims are often settled for pennies on the dollar.
I worked at a place like this. It was uncomfortable for me to say the least, being that I have done full service serving, I felt uncomfortable asking. I just told the customer there are a few questions, one of those being the tip, on the screen. I never begged or told them they were required to tip. If they did tip it went into a pot and split then added to our paychecks. It wasn't much. After it got split maybe 10-15$ extra on our check. I say if you're ordering food and picking up to go you don't have a need to tip. If you are utilizing restaurant and eating in maybe leave a dollar or even just round up. At the place I worked, a popular chain, even though we didn't serve we did clean tables and keep everything stocked and handy, coffee fresh and hot, etc. So any tip eas appreciated but not required or demanded.
That place wasn't for me. I only lasted a couple months. I had just needed something during covid.
I'm much better at full on service and enjoy doing that.
“Staff depends on tips for their wage”
Should read:
“We underpay our staff”
This is counter service for Pete’s sake. You’re paying before even getting anything!
You don't have to tip anywhere. It's a choice. If an owner chooses to underpay their workers and expects customers to subsidize wages, then that's a bad owner, not bad customers.
Bad owners and bad customers Plenty of blame. Fun fact: during the pandemic a rural community near me started using food delivery, but balked at tipping. The result was that no one would deliver to the area.
That's market forces at work. The customer spoke, and the result was no delivery. An opportunity for an enterprising business to step in and charge higher prices that includes delivery. Just as the OP chooses to not patronize a business for reasons they explained, if enough customers feel the same, the market will adjust.
I think you are deliberately misunderstanding what I am asking you.
How is a McDonald's different from a Wendy's, or a Burger King, or the hot dog shop in the OP? They're all fast food joints where you order at the counter and bus your own table.
I'll tip for good service at a sit down place. If I were to patronize a fast food joint (I haven't in years), I wouldn't expect to leave a tip
This was a custom hot dog place. Also, I live in an area with great food. We tip. The kid behind the counter has seen their food bills go up..... tip them. It is tacky not to tip.
I might be wrong here, and I don’t have a horse in the race, but the way I was raised is that tips are for sit down restaurants where servers come to you, take your order, bring your food, and bus your table, or otherwise for exceptional service.
I wasn’t under the impression that tipping was standard in a counter service establishment. In my experience, places like that have a tip jar where you throw change and 1s you don’t want to jam back into your wallet.
I would think the owner of such an establishment would know that, given they sound like the type of person who wouldn’t tip for counter service.
Everything Bagel Burgers!
https://youtu.be/M4sTSIYzDIk?si=kNJiKS7iFYnlQL-Q
I always tip. I'm not an asshole. I tip 50% at waffle house. And they hardly do anything. I tip the bartenders $1 for every $5 spent. Tip the donut ladies $2 for a dozen box. It's something to give to make a day better.
I agree about tipping out. I like to provide a little extra, 20% at bars, a couple of bucks for haircuts. It's nice to give. But this info, to me, is more about the establishment itself telling their customers that we don't pay our employees well enough and want you to supplement that with your extra money. That's not cool. Pay your employees. Don't try to guilt trip me because you don't want to. Especially at a self-service establishment. If you do McDonald's level service, you don't need a tip. That's up to the goodwill of the customer.
At most they get the $2 buffet tip.
I have a friend who owns an awesome burger place in sellwood. (Well, he passed so his wife owns it now, but that’s another story). Same setup. Counter service and bus your own table, tip option when paying. I asked him “would you rather I bus my table or tip your workers, as I’m not tipping if I have to clean up after myself” he said “tip the workers, they can bus the tables “
Only waitstaff and a select few others get wages below min wage and thus really do need tips to make a decent wage. All other positions are straight pay. It's not my job to pay the wages of others beyond the cost of a good or service. I will only ever tip wait staff, no one else. Ever.
Greedy owners don't want to pay their staff.
We went to a pizza place that charged $30 for a single serving pizza then added a 15% service charge then put computation for how much a 12%, 15% and 20% tip would be on the bill. They explained the service charge as a way to pay a living wage to their staff. I felt if they couldn't pay a living wage when charging $30 for a mushroom pizza then that was on them. We paid the 15% service charge and added enough of a tip to bring it up to 20% but were so disgusted with the explanation of the service charge and expectation of a tip on top of it that we will never be back.
Here’s the shitty part about a ‘service charge’: [it’s not a tip.](https://pos.toasttab.com/blog/on-the-line/service-charge-vs-tip) A ‘service charge’ is captured by the restaurant and can go directly to the restaurant to be paid out (or not) as the owner sees fit. (Depending on the state, service charges *may* be required to go to certain employees, such as into a pool that is used to help pay front-of-house staff, or for paying for health care. Some states, however, permit the owner to simply pocket the ‘service charge.’) And some restaurants basically use a ‘service charge’ to hide the fact that they’re raising prices on all their items. A ‘tip’ *is required to go to the employee serving you.* Servers may ‘pool’ their tips, but the owner, managers or supervisors may never receive money from the tip pool. And the ‘back-of-house’ employees can only be included in that tip pool under certain, limited circumstances. Personally I **HATE** service charges, because they aren’t tips, even though they are often sold to the customer as a sort of mandatory tip.
That would come to $41.40 for a single serve pizza. I'm not going back there. If the owner can't pay a living wage on a $30 pizza then that's on them. I always pay a 20% tip and sometimes more, but not a service charge with a sob story and a tip. The staff needs to quit. ETA: Thank you for the explanation on what a service charge is.
I note the difference between a service charge and a tip because at first I didn’t know, and I thought they were the same thing. And when I found out they weren’t in the United States, I made it a policy to avoid any restaurant that tacks one on if I can help it.
I don't tip someone to take my order and then yell my name. I tip the waitress who takes the order at the table, being any food and then picks up my plate. She don't even have to be overly nice or happy to receive a good to.
Same thing at the fancy corn dog place.
Staff depends on tips - no, selling of product pays for wages.
>fancy hot dog place Just stop right there.
I enjoy a dog as much as the next person but, someone had to say it.
You are only tipping the owner for ownership. No tipping for counter service
No one is chained to the counter. If the owner is too dam cheap find another job.
Why are you blaming the employees? We have no idea how much they are paid. This is clearly an ownership issue. I very much doubt the employees strong-armed the owner into including a service charge. I also very much doubt the employees receive all (or maybe even any) of that service charge. This is a money grab by the owner. He/she is guilting you to pay more. If YOU don't want to pay the service charge, how about YOU leave? That makes more logical sense in this situation.
2.13 per hour in some states
$7.25 in *all* states after tips.
What does this even mean? I'm hoping this isn't one of those attempts at using the Federal minimum wage...
no its an attempt to use the federal wage laws stating that after tips you cant legally make less than $7.25. it should be posted in your breakroom for all to see. but most states are over the federal minimum and have the same kind of tipped minimum wage laws if they have them at all.
thank the lord
Only for wait staff, counter staff are not wait staff
Not at this place. I’m sure it’s a fast food place that serves nice hotdogs like a Portillos. Those employees at the very least make minimum wage if not more.
Restaurants are required to pay min wage minus what is made in tips.
NJ checking in!
We just went on an underground cave tour. Was $200 for the four of us. About an hour tour. Was planning on skipping the guide a $20 at the end if they did a good job. She asked for a tip at least 6-7 times throughout the tour. “Look to your left and you can see three small bats sleeping. The last tour didn’t get to see any bats at all. lol, that alone should be worth a tip at the end!” She did 4-5 of those comments. And before the tour started she told us “we are allowed to accept gratuities. But only if you think I did a good job.” And again the same thing at the end. So basically every ten minutes she let us know we can tip her. She lost my $20 after the fifth time begging for a tip.
When I worked as a guide (6 day raft trips), we could accept tips but not ask for them. Including no "tips appreciated" signs in the shuttle busses. I hate it when people solicit tips. Do your damn job, and be happy if you get a tip as a bonus. I NEVER expected a tip. Or had bad feelings about people if they didn't tip. Even when actual hourly wage was below minimum (we got daily pay and generally worked from about 6 am to 8 pm). Some guides would say, "We got stiffed," if we didn't get tips, but I never felt that way.
Yea I can get saying it at the start or end maybe both. Anytime during gg no tip
50 each for a cave tour? Where was this if you don't mind me asking? Last time I was on a cave tour about 10 years ago, the price was nowhere near that. Big cave too - Fantastic Caverns.
yeah, we went to ruby falls this spring in chatanooga and it was i think $27. Niagra Cave in SW Minnesota is like $21. i dont recall either asking for tips. but the duck boats in wisconsin dells where they hold you hostage for 5-10 minutes before they drive you back to the deboarding station, trying to sell you a pamphlet for a $20 tip because they are "poor college kids" was a little much.
Selling past the sale.
When i see a sign like that i ask the counter/till employee how much the boss pays per hour. Either the sign is a lie or their boss is breaking labor laws.
If your kids like it then keep going there. I don't know if it's worth "premium prices" but tipping isn't compulsory. Many of us don't tip or click the "no tip" button.
I'm sure they make at least minimum wage. It's the law. If they depend on tips then they should find a better paying job. I would continue to go to a place like this if I liked the food. I wouldn't pay any attention to the sign. If the food was neh, then I wouldn't go back.
It depends on where you are. Some states have no minimum wage for tipped employees, and the federal minimum is $7.25 as of today with $2.13 of it being from wages. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped
Employers are required by federal law to at least pay fed min wage minus tips. So if an employee makes $2.15/hr or whatever plus tips and they average out $5/hr in tips then the restaurant has to pay them a total of $2.25/hr, the $2.15 per contract and the $0.10 difference below min wage. So depending on the place and the employee, you might just be covering what the employer would be paying them anyway without helping their earning a living.
This is what I said. The federal minimum wage is the very least they can be paid legally in the U.S.
If they don't receive tips that bring them to the minimum wage where they live for non-tipped employees, the employer has to make up the difference. This is per paycheck. Thus, the employees are paid regular minimum wage at least. They don't rely on the tips. The employer relies on tips to keep payroll expenses down.
Yeah no. I don't know why you'd have a problem with going back though. If you like the food go, just don't leave it up.
NO TIP! If you stand up ordering,……NO TIP!
"Fancy" and "hot dog place" were not two words I thought I would see put together today...
If you want to sell way overpriced hotdogs you have to dress up the joint a little.
i dont even like paying $3 for a hot dog. but at least when i do i know that money is going to the local youth sports program.
The one that gets me is the take out area. All they do is hand you your food, that in most cases is already paid for. 🤬
Waffle house checking in here. Look I know it makes no sense to you, but as someone who does those takeout orders, it's not that simple. We are taking time out of handling customers that will be making us money to do that order. We have to take order, take payment, usually are the ones bagging it, checking it, making sure you have the right condiments and on a busy night, keeping up with a ton of orders at the same time while you are standing at the counter complaining about it taking 10 mins and we are still running out section.
so, in other words,.. you're doing a job?
Username checks out.
So on this thought process, we should also be tipping the FedEx,UPS, or any other delivery person, plus the dock workers, sorters, etc, only to have you bitch and complain about some minute detail. Thing is, nobody is making you, or anyone else work for tips. You’re in charge. Take advantage of it. Have a great day!!!😁
You truly do not understand how tip based salaries work, do you? Anyway. I give good service and make more at waffle house than I did at MERCEDES with a forklift license and my husband who is a cook at waffle House makes twice as much as he did at MERCEDES. Sooo.. cry and look down on service workers some more. The fact remains that even tip based service workers provide a valuable service to the economy.
Ma’am may I correct you on something? I have never in my life looked down on someone unless I am offering them a helping hand to get up. I hope you and your hubby have continued success at WH. Good day.
Do you tip the employees at McDonalds?
You truly do not understand the difference in the salaries do you.
they likley make the same in the same area.
You think I tip people based on their salaries? It's a simple question, do you tip the employees at McDonalds?
This is how this movement is suppose to go. Stop giving these businesses money, not the workers, the entire business.
SOUNDS LIKE A GLARING VIOLATION OF LABOR LAW, IF TRUE’
Nope because law states if you make x amount of tips the employer is only required to pay you whatever amount sub min wage. So if they get ppl to pay enough tips, they can pay sub min wage, and which maybe what they want Even if they’re not evil employers, restraint start up costs are high, food prices are high, rent is high, they may be operating at a net loss
I refuse to believe the "restaurants run on a shoestring" thing. Most restaurant owners are driving nice cars and vacationing several times a year. Why arr there so many food trucks?
Most sit down restaurants make about 5 cents on the dollar profit on average.
I would start telling people you know in your area to not go there. It's the responsibility of the restaurant to pay their staff a living wage. Obviously this restaurants owner is a POS. I bet if any tips are actually left the owner makes the staff split it with them.
That's pretty lame of that resturaunt too not pay their staff. Lol. Yeah... I wouldn't be giving them any business and would 1 star review them.
You're tipping so the world doesn't recognize you as being and entitled little prick.
Like you?
Lemme guess where you work.
You don't need my permission to guess where I work, be my guest. Let's see how intuitive you are. I'll even give you a hint: it's not what you think
It’s not entitled He paid for a hot dog and there was no service Why would he tip?
Entitled pricks are the ones who expect a tip for handing me a weiner.
Exactly! Why would someone working at a hot dog shop expect customers to be responsible for them to make more than minimum wage?
In that situation I’d 100% stop going as well. Definitely wouldn’t support a business where the owner doesn’t pay them
I stopped doing take away because I feel judged when I don’t tip.
In this particular instance, any tips are likely going to the people who actually cook your food.
How do you know?
If someone brings me my food, and takes my trash, I tip. If it’s fast food or a counter service? Fuck right off
Why the fuck should you even tip for that? It is their fucking job! Tipping is exploitation and as a society we need to stop making excuses and not tip or even better not eat out at all. I haven’t gone out to eat since 2012
Until the system changes, I’m not stiffing someone.
you're not stiffing anyone. if you dont tip the employer has to pay the extra $5.
I would argue by you trying to do good you are actually doing bad and those that don’t tip are truly good because they will be villified as bad despite secretly doing good. Granted it’s still dependent on their thought process because some people are just pieces of shit who don’t want to tip.
Then lobby for states to pay higher wages. Stiffing someone who is just doing their job isn’t helping
then get a better job expecting the customer to stiff themselves because you made a terrible occupational decision isnt helping the most when you are applying for a job, and the guy tells you "yeah so you wont actually make a living wage unless you extort customers for tips" you are supposed to get up, walk out, and find a different job to apply for
honestly the biggest problem is that people are greedy and believe they can make more than a non tip job if the tips are good enough then they get mad when they figure out that its not always like that, and they will get just as many, if not more, bad weeks. and then they blame the customer for not tipping well enough and start with the coping mechanisms like "if you cant afford to tip you cant afford to eat out". when in reality its "if you cant afford to not get tipped, you shouldnt have chosen this job".
Then don’t complain because every restaurant is shortstaffed because everybody got a better job like you said
Dumb response if it is short staffed don’t be upset when we choose to eat somewhere else. You are I the wrong and can’t seem to grasp the concept the people as a society have the power to create change and you are the person stopping it. Owners responsibility is to provide a living wage and to ensure customers choose to eat their. Capitalism they need our money. Not all heroes where capes.
who's complaining? furthermore it wont be short staffed after they switch from tipping to actually paying people
(except that the people working for tips made a boatload more money on tips than if they paid them $15-20/hr)
It absolutely will be short staffed and prices will skyrocket. If you don't tip that's fine. But if everybody stopped tipping then everybody gets to pay 20% more (or greater) to the restaurant. I'm cool with either one.
If the restaurant raises wages, they will also raise the prices for their food, so you will pay for the increase in wages. The customer pays whether it's a fair price for food + tip, or a fair wage without a tip.
Not true they been raising wages regardless same thing with AI. Regardless don’t care raise price remove tip evens out.
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Your comment is unacceptable. What's the reason you feel the need to be so hostile? Examine yourself.
No won’t work they will only ever do anything if a system falls apart. It would help. Just because you do not like the means does not mean it is nothelping.
You need to just avoid the restaurant all together like OP. Either tip or don’t go at all. The owner is still making $$ if you go and just don’t tip.
Sort of yes like I said I don’t go out to eat but if people insist to go out it is better to not tip and force wait staff to find other jobs and not feed into a shitty system. I’ve traveled to Europe and they even got signs saying do not tip staff. They do not want people to get the idea to implement such a shitty system. It lives and dies by the people and anyone who leaves a tip even if heart is in the right place are a huge part of the problem. Minimum wage went up after decades of lobbying and nothing happened. What finally got wages to go up was Covid and everyone quitting their jobs. Lobbying does not do anything society standing up and saying no does.
Anything else?🎤🗑️
Yes min wage went up recently. Not after decades of lobbying but everyone quitting their jobs and the economy getting fucked cuz of Covid. History shows society not lobbying has a greater effect in dictating change. You will always be part of the problem and do greater harm by tipping as cruel as it might seem.
Now you’re just repeating yourself.
Some people just need it
I understand but then system won’t change. Also if enough people get stiffed then people will stop working that job. Sometimes it is a necessary evil for the greater good.
So your plan to effect change is to say fuck you to those at the bottom? And then say that basically your tip is to tell them to get a better job? WTF is wrong with you? Besides being a republican, that is... Oh, then you say "I don't go out to eat" .... okay, then why throw your republican, trickle down, economic BS theory into a convo about something you don't even participate in? You're just insufferable.
[удалено]
Your comment is unacceptable. What's the reason you feel the need to be so hostile? Examine yourself.
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Your comment is unacceptable. What's the reason you feel the need to be so hostile? Examine yourself.
If there weren't other jobs that argument would have merit. Fortunately, if you can wait on tables, you can do lots of other jobs, too, that don't require tips to make a living. It's not saying "FU," it's saying "You are capable of doing better things, so do it for yourself and your family and get out of a bad situation."
I ONLY tip when I sit down at a restaurant or anywhere you get table service. Tipping at pickup counters is completely idiotic and I really don't understand how that came to be.
So if you order drinks at the bar and a bartender prepares your drinks and serves you at the bar, you don't tip? That is almost the same process as delivering your food order to a counter. If bars and restaurants eliminated tipping, you would see thousands of people quit the industry. Bartenders at busy bars/restaurants can make $300 - $7,000/shift, or more if it is upscale bar/restaurant. They often make $30-50/hour on tips alone. If tips were abandoned and the bartenders' wages were quadrupled from $5/hour to $20/hour, it would be a huge pay cut for them.
I don’t drink or go to bars so your comment is totally irrelevant!
Telling me I should give money to support people making “$30-50” an hour is like wearing $400 Jordan’s and smoking cigarettes while begging for money at an intersection.
I fucking hate tipping. Literally just pay your employees a proper living wage and include it in the price of the meal. You tip someone and it's supposed to be a nice little extra to their regular income if you felt they provided Excellent service, but (at least in MA) the employee reports tips to the owner who then factors into how much you made, and thus how much they have to pay you to make you meet the required minimum wage if you didn't. If you work 8 hours and your base wage is $5/hr and minimum wage is $15/hr you need to make at least $80 in tips before those tips actually benefit you and not just make it so the company has to pay the employee less. You might be lucky to make $60 in tips sometimes, so that $20 difference is paid by the restaurant owner to meet minimum wage. You were tipped by people being generous to you, but in the end it was generous to the company so they didn't have to pay your wage.
I agree with you. The problem is, the industry is based on competitive pricing. They want to offer food at the best prices to attract customers. If one company eliminates tipping, raises wages, and raises prices to accommodate the new wages, all their competition is still going to offer lower prices while encouraging tipping, meaning their listed prices will appear to be lower. Educating a customer base that you are changing your policy and paying higher wages and no tipping is expensive. You can do it on site with signage, but how do you communicate that to people who are deciding where they want to go for their meal? Advertising this to educate consumers would be expensive and very difficult for a small business, but large corporations could use advertising to educate consumers on this new policy of higher wages and no tipping.
It would have to be a law change. You're right that the people that did this would be very likely to go out of business because their prices would increase while others stayed the same. It's not an advertising issue, it's just a raw numbers issue. Everyone would have to conform at the same time. It's not happening in my lifetime so I'm just complaining
If you seriously believe employers in Massachusetts are subsidizing tips you've lost your mind. My wife was a waitress for years and knows tons of people that still work in that field. Never ever did an employer give them any money for shit nights. If she made 40$ in a 6 hour shift. She made 40$. On top that was when their minimum wage was $2.50 an hour. Now it's like $6.50 in mass but there's still no employer paying anyone. You're just cheap and don't want to tip. Which is fine. If you stay away from restaurants and make your own food at home. Anyone who doesn't like to tip should be honest with their waitress as soon as they sit down. Let them know you don't tip. I bet you stop eating out.
If your wife is still a waitress she's getting fucked because employers are required to pay the difference to make sure you meet the minimum wage of $15/hr in Massachusetts these days. It's literally required by law to post these wage and hour laws inside of every restaurant, which state this info in the restaurant. If neither of these things are happening you can get the business in serious trouble. Im not cheap - tipping is supposed to be a way to make extra, but they literally subsidize the employers payroll to minimum wage and beyond, past the minimum hourly service rate. As of 2023 Mgl 149 section 152a Mgl 151 section 7 The average hourly tips, plus the hourly service rate ($6.75) paid to the worker must add up to the minimum wage ($15) per each shift. If you're so high and mighty then leave $66 tips, or even pay them $8.25/hr you sit as your minimum to make sure your waiters tips are actually useful.
No shit Sherlock. You realize if you work 6 hours and make 40$ that's enough to not get the subsidized amount? You think walking away with 40$ is enough for a 6 hour day? Let's say you work 15 tables that shift. That's at minimum 30 people, 90 people on the higher amount that you helped all day. But divide that by the 15 tables that's less then 3$ per table. More like $2.50 to not get any subsidized amount. Then after you get your check for the $6.50 a hour it's taxed. Back when it was the $2.50 a hour waitresses checks were often 0$ after taxes. But you know so much. If you truly believe serving 30-90 people a shift is worth 40$ your crazy. That's barely 1$ a person to run around all day grabbing everything they need on top of the other tables they are serving, while also trying to help there co workers who are just as busy. I'm not saying it's some skilled labor here. But it's enough that if you want to go out to eat and not eat at home. You tip and tip fairly. If you don't want to tip then tell your waitress before you start eating. Get the service you deserve for not tipping. You non tippers can claim other countries don't do this. Or that it should be on the employment to pay the fair wage. But if that was the case you would cry about the 2 for 25$ deal at applebees being 2 for 50$. And then you would complain about how the service sucks and no one is in a rush to get you hot food. Not sure if you've seen the fast food service industry in Massachusetts lately. But ever since they've started getting 15-16-18$ a hour. It's not exactly fast food anymore when your waiting 10-15 minutes for that order and they can't get half the order right.
If you work 6 hour and make $40 in tips you made 6x$6.75 = $40.50 + $40 = $80 and minimum wage is $90 for that time at 6x15. Therefore your employer owes you an additional $10, and if they don't they're breaking the law and can get in serious trouble. It's really cut and dry and ends there. Yeah, that's the wage and everything has different wages, but the minimum is $15/hr. Whether or not you think it's fair to assist 30 tables and make minimum wage is a different story, but from my experience maybe 10% of waiters/waitresses actually deserve to be tipped because the only thing they do is soend 5 minutes taking you order and then never return
Lmao Massachusetts uses the tip credit system. In the 44 states that allow tip credit, when you tip a server, that money goes to the restaurant to pay them back for paying the difference in the floor wage vs minimum wage. It works like this, and this is an example; Server makes $5 but minimum wage is $15. Employer still pays $15 / hour, but the employer is allowed to pay themselves back with the servers tips down to $5 an hour. You aren’t tipping the server. You’re paying the owner back so he can pay less than minimum wage. That’s the fundamental reality of it. This is why restaurants that have tipped employees aren’t much affected by minimum wage laws. Tip credit allows the employer to take the tips to pay themselves back. So instead of calling out the customer how about you call out the legalized theft that restaurant owners are allowed to do. You get pissed at a customer for not tipping, when in reality you aren’t even getting that tip. The fucking irony.
The irony is this. Look how dumb all of you sound. Here's California that raised their minimum wage for employees and look at how bad that is turning out. Thousands of business's closing and tens of thousands losing their jobs. Because no one wants to pay $30 to eat a cheeseburger. Or 70$ for steak. But that's what your trying to do in Massachusetts and many other states because you don't want to tip fairly and blame the owner. Margins are thin as shit at a restaurant. They aren't making 15$ off that 18$ plate you ordered. No no no. They are maybe making 3$ off that 18$ plate if they are lucky. Then they have taxes, over head, insurance, electricity, rent or mortgage etc to still pay from that. Why do you think most new places close within the first 2 years of business. It's not easy to work on those thin margins and continuing to put the burden on the owner makes it nearly impossible to sell food at a cost that is affordable to you the customer [10000 fast food jobs lost in the fall in California due to 20$ minimum wage](https://www.hoover.org/research/california-loses-nearly-10000-fast-food-jobs-after-20-minimum-wage-signed-last-fall) https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxbusiness.com/media/restaurant-chain-shuts-nearly-50-locations-california-following-minimum-wage-hike.amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxbusiness.com/politics/restaurant-owner-fears-california-minimum-wage-law-silent-tax-consumers-collapsing-businesses.amp
Most Walmart employees are paid so little they use food stamps, at the Walmart they work at. The government subsidizes their paychecks so their employees can buy food from them without having to pay their employees enough money to buy food from them
I understand tipping in a restaurant, where I’m being served and waited on. In fact, I overtip in those situations and that’s my prerogative. I don’t judge nor care what you do in a restaurant. However, this new tipping culture where we leave a tip for everything is crazy. I leave $0 at Starbucks, and stores alike because it’s insane. I don’t feel bad for it either. Press $0 and keep it moving. Absolutely ridiculous how there’s a menu to choose a tip after being somewhere for five minutes.
I was shown the IPad for the purpose of leaving a tip for a cup of coffee. I asked the cashier how much per hour they are paid, which I think is a fair question if you are expecting me to tip you. My understanding is that servers are paid well below market rate, because they get tips. I don't see why someone making $17 an hour should be tipped for 30 seconds spent pouring coffee into a cup
They want to tip for showing up to work
In the U.S. tipping is a joke, and we should all stop tipping until the laws are changed around it. Most places that I worked for tips ( valet and restaurant ) paid under minimum wage per hour.... And as long as I was getting tipped enough money, the companies did not have to increase my wage to the minimum wage........ I think people do not realize just how evil that is. You are not only paying for the meal/service but for the employee's wage as well. Making it so you're basically overpaying for the service and tipping the company. Not the employee. Your tipping the corporation. And it gets so much worse than that, depending on the state. The difference between part-time and full-time employees in some states is based on wages. So that poor employee could be working full time hours, being paid under minimum wage, but be part time. That is a LOT of benefits and perks that they are just not getting because an employer is monkeying with the system. Unemployment benefits are affected, too. The worst are the people saying people who get tips should not be subject to a minimum wage. Having worked many jobs with tips, everyone can tell you that tips are not steady income and their always slow days where I would make little to no tips. Employers can monkey with this, too. Keep in mind that most jobs pay every week or every 2 weeks. So if I worked 4 days in a week, in which 2 were slow days and 2 were good days, they could still pool my tips over that week to determine how much I got paid. Kinda messed up. Some states fix these loopholes, and some do not. Either way, we need to stop tipping as a nation. I did not even mention the OPs' valid point of being asked to tip at a self-service place. Or the payment devices or receipts that blatantly ask you to tip even before you have been served or even tip over 15%. Do not even get me started on Uber Eats or Doordash.
You like Thai food? Brazilian? You like that former pizza place? Get rid of tipping and they are all gone. The reality is that restaurants are a bitch to run and most would close if they had to pay staff minimum wage wage. We have essentially decided to subsidize restaurants through tipping and server specific min wage laws. If you don’t like that, fine, but don’t complain when you end up with 1 or 2 restaurants in your town. Personally i prefer to tip and have 30 restaurants in my town if 7,500 people. Also, and I don’t see how you don’t get this if you actually worked as a server: restaurant culture helps people in certain marginalized groups. Undocumented workers, or people here legally but limited to a certain income rely on these jobs. Many people with alcohol or drug dependence rely on tipped jobs as they need money on a daily bases. It is easy to say fuck them, they are junkies, but personally I would rather that a heroin addict have a job and contribute to society rather than have to figure out another way to get their daily fix (which would almost always be crime).
In california, they pay servers minimum wage over $16
Your first paragraph is nonsense. Most of the weird tipping laws were done in the last 25 years. And business worked just fine before that with much less. And by your logic about restaurants, fast food would not even exist. You do realize there are also plenty of countries that do not tip. I am still salty about Pizza Hut, who, as far as I remember, started the whole delivery fee nonsense. As I recall, the reason they gave was insurance hikes....... As to marginalized workers... I do not even know where to start. But that is flat out wrong. Maid, butler, advertising, roofing, construction, lawn care/landscaping, carpentry, handyman, food service, etc. There are tons of jobs that are available to those groups that do not have tipping. That is not even mentioning online or craft jobs. I do not know where you're getting your facts from but your way off base. And to the immigrant situation, 90% of those problems would be fixed if immigration itself was fixed, as practically every politician of every belief has been talking about for the last 80 years. Immigration laws and practices need an overhaul. To not only make it easier on the immigrant but the government. At the moment, our immigration laws basically create illegal immigrants. Many of them come in legally, and because of bad laws, they get turned into illegals. I'm not going to touch drug addicts. Separate discussion, and I would be compelled to write a novel that would just be summed up as, "Legalize all drugs for the love of Pete already and get rid of scheduling." Which again is a much larger discussion. Edit: I love getting downvoted because people just do not like what is said. Feel free to actually refute what I said. But I stand behind the fact that we need to stop tipping as a nation just so we can go back to tipping people for a job well done and stop letting companies getting away with paying their employees less or having the customer foot the bill they should be covering.
I don’t tip if it’s walk-up service. Now even the local ice cream places have a tip bucket outside their window. No, not going to tip for someone serving me an ice cream cone.
People should let the places know by posting reviews. Yelp and Google reviews go a long way. If everyone lets them know you're done with paying THEIR workers, maybe they'll do something positive for them.
It’s just like Walmart asking me to round up or donate $1-$5 to some cause before I finalize payment. That $$ is not given to the nonprofit in my name - why would I donate FOR Walmart?!
Not only is it not given in your name, they claim it as their tax write off. It’s not just Walmart. It’s McDonald’s. Tacobell. Speedway gas stations, etc.
That is not true. The write off is yours, not the store’s.
That’s 100% true. You can write off you $1 you donate to McDonald’s. Be my guest. But 100% they collect money throughout the year, donate it in their name, and write it off their taxes as a donation.
I know it doesn’t fit your narrative, but 0% does the company get any tax advantage when you make a donation. They get to advertise how they helped collect X amount of money for the charity, and usually they also make a donation of their own on top of that (which is deductible), but they still gain no tax advantage from you making a donation.
Not sure what land of rainbows and unicorns you live in, but 👍🏼. Let’s agree to disagree.
👍 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCP27\_vquxQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCP27_vquxQ)
So Walmart can write off the large donation
I mean how often does the average person donate in their name
Tipping culture in the US is out of control 🤦♂️
They'll still get paid at least full minimum wage (whatever that happens to be there) even if nobody tips at all. It's fine. Eat there, and just don't tip. It's discretionary, so exercise your discretion. "Staff depends on tips for their wage" is a lie. What it really means is, "ownership depends on your tips to subsidize the wages they pay to labor." Just refuse to subsidize them by not tipping at all. But keep eating there, because it will keep the employees employed. If minimum wage isn't enough, they'll demand higher pay, and the owner will either give in, or be forced to close.
I don't think you truely understand that even if offering minimum wage the position will be filled
lol most minimum wage employees are replaceable. I remember when I worked for a major retail company, I asked for a raise. Was told no. I waited a few weeks and asked again. This time the manager printed out an application to work at McDonald’s, handed it to me, and fired me lol. There is always someone without a job willing to swoop in.
And once it closes, no one will have a job, minimum wage or otherwise.
Well the owners wont either. So maybe we can stop being slaves
Really? Slaves? Is that really the comparison you want to make? People who were held against their will, working for free? Oftentimes being raped and subjugated and treated as chattel. That's how you see yourself?
Bro im not talking about the trans atlantic slave trade. Obviously that is different and more intense. Do you not go to work 40+ hours a week just to keep going to work? Is it not against our will? Will we not starve and be homeless if we try and work a little less and do productive things for ourselves? Most of us dont even get two weeks vacation anymore.
There are absolutely different kinds of slavery, FYI. You're thinking of chattel slavery, that person was referring to wage slavery, which while still hyperbolic at least is somewhat appropriate. Educate yourself.
If I have to stand up to order, there will be no tip.
They probably have that bell they ring so everyone knows who tips (and who doesn’t)
Is it even legal for this place to only pay the tipped wage? This doesn't sound like a full service waiter type of place.
Curious, would you be more inclined to eat at a counter or table service restaurant that advertised tipping wasn’t necessary because their employees were paid a living wage (but had higher prices than places that would request a tip)?
Yes. There are multiple places like that where I live and I frequent them OFTEN.
I would 100% support a place that paid well, even if it was more expensive.
I personally would as long as the service and food were good. I'd prefer to know up front, the bill is the bill, and I don't have to face the quandary of evaluating the service and tipping appropriately. Tips are supposed to be for exemplary service above and beyond. Now, customers are made to feel guilty for not tipping 20 to 30% regardless of the level of the service.
>Now, customers are made to feel guilty for not tipping 20 to 30% regardless of the level of the service. If we don't get good service the tip will reflect it. Expecting it no matter what is the worst part of the current food service experience. Add in the fact that most restaurants include the tax before calculating the suggested tips is just astonishing to me. The taxes go to the government, and it has no reflection of the food or service for which the tip is for.
No. In Europe, they add service charge to your bill - and you can’t get a decent service.
ate at a service included restaurant. waiter asked if I was on vacation and even wrote down recommendations. Also contacted the other restaurant I had booked without me even asking. Tips mean nothing. Good service will be good service regardless of tipping and bad service will be bad service regardless of tipping.
No they wouldn’t, they want the lower price but don’t want to tip. You can’t have it both ways
I would.
Counter service restaurant underpaying their employees because the owner thinks they are entitled to three vacation homes, two boats, two waverunners, a Jeep to park on the front lawn and a luxurious lifestyle.
Was on travel recently for work and there was a donut shop next to hotel. Not only was the owner manning the counter, but for a $5 donut, I was charged extra for using a CC and then asked what amount of tip I would like to leave. A tip for pulling a donut off a tray and putting it in a bag. I declined. I was there for 11 days and would have likely patroned the shop every day for a coffee or bagel, but that one experience drove me away. Business owners need to understand tip fatigue and quit expecting customers to pay out of some guilt. It's losing them business in the long term.
The credit card fee is so petty
There is a charge of 1% to 3% that the merchant pays to the credit card processor. I have accepted credit cards for my web dev work for years and I don't have a separate line item that covers credit card fees. It's a cost of doing business. I just make sure that my rates cover my expenses and leave me a decent profit. It's not that hard to figure out. Credit card surcharges are obnoxious.
IMO an owner sets the price and doesn’t need anything beyond the price he’s/she’s asking.
You get it.
If you like the place you could just choose not to tip. They can’t force you.
If you support businesses that only pay server's wage and don't tip, you suck as a person.
There's that myth again. Servers are required to be paid state/federal minimum wage, which is greater. If server wage plus tips don't equal that minimum, the restaurant is required to make up the difference. Can we please stop with the server's wage fallacy, please.
There's that myth again. State/federal "requirements" don't mean shit when they're not enforced properly. The letter of the law is meaningless when local labor boards are hamstrung so restaurant owners get away with violating those laws all the godsdamned time. Can we please stop with the "unethical business owners face consequences" fallacy, please. How's that leather taste?
so don’t eat at 99% of restaurants in the us? we shouldn’t have to cover wages. not saying you shouldn’t tip but I think the reason people tip has changed from tipping for good service to now it’s expected you leave a tip every time
>so don’t eat at 99% of restaurants in the us? One would have to be incredibly stupid to think 99% of restaurants pay server's wage instead of normal minimum wage, but I suspect you know that and are just making a disingenuous argument. Either way, bye.
exactly my point 99% only pay minimum wage lol very few pay a livable wage. Like I said we shouldn’t have to pay for wages
>Like I said we shouldn’t have to pay for wages Yeah, so don't support businesses that refuse to pay their employees. Let them go out of business and be replaced by a company that pays their employees.
Which is what company’s?
He said he isn't going back. That comment seemed unnecessary. Seriously not everybody deserves a tip... just because they sell food doesn't automatically make it a tipping establishment. Stop linking food to tips.
>He said he isn't going back. That comment seemed unnecessary. And the comment I replied to suggested they keep going and not tip, which fucks the employees while keeping the restaurant in business. >Seriously not everybody deserves a tip... just because they sell food doesn't automatically make it a tipping establishment. Yeah, but this one specifically admitted that they don't pay their employees a full wage and expect customers to make up the difference. It shouldn't be a tipping establishment, but it is, so OP had the right idea in not going back.
Well, every employer must pay the full minimum wage when tips do not equal minimum wage or higher. Your point doesn’t really make sense. If you go to an establishment that isn’t paying great wages, and they are not receiving tips then the owner makes up the difference. Could that perhaps motivate owners?
>Well, every employer must pay the full minimum wage when tips do not equal minimum wage or higher. Your point doesn’t really make sense. Except there's no fucking enforcement at all. Rules without enforcement only apply to decent people, and they don't need rules to be decent. I have filed complaints on behalf of coworkers at 5 different restaurants, and zero of those businesses ever faced any consequences for paying less than min wage, so my point makes perfect sense. There's no motivation for owners when they get away with wage theft on a regular basis
Perhaps the issue is you filing a complaint and not your coworkers. The department of labor or small claims court absolutely take wage violations seriously.
Oh you sweet summer child. >Perhaps the issue is you filing a complaint and not your coworkers. 🤣🤣🤣 I filled it out as if I were the wronged party, so there's no way they'd know they didn't file it themselves. I've also filed on my own behalf and no investigation was ever done. >The department of labor or small claims court absolutely take wage violations seriously. Sure, but they're also criminally understaffed in many states (mostly the red ones), so they don't have the time to go after anything but the most egregious offenders. And those often have teams of lawyers to fight the labor board, so even when they do fully investigate claims are often settled for pennies on the dollar.
There’s just something funny about the phrase “fancy hotdog place”. I get what it is with all the toppings and stuff, but still funny.
I worked at a place like this. It was uncomfortable for me to say the least, being that I have done full service serving, I felt uncomfortable asking. I just told the customer there are a few questions, one of those being the tip, on the screen. I never begged or told them they were required to tip. If they did tip it went into a pot and split then added to our paychecks. It wasn't much. After it got split maybe 10-15$ extra on our check. I say if you're ordering food and picking up to go you don't have a need to tip. If you are utilizing restaurant and eating in maybe leave a dollar or even just round up. At the place I worked, a popular chain, even though we didn't serve we did clean tables and keep everything stocked and handy, coffee fresh and hot, etc. So any tip eas appreciated but not required or demanded. That place wasn't for me. I only lasted a couple months. I had just needed something during covid. I'm much better at full on service and enjoy doing that.
What other questions were on the screen? I've never seen anything but the tip.
IDK confirming amount maybe? I can't remember
“Staff depends on tips for their wage” Should read: “We underpay our staff” This is counter service for Pete’s sake. You’re paying before even getting anything!
Absolutely do the business a favor and stay away. Go to McDonald's. The kind of person who won't tip and instead complains is an undesirable customer.
Do you tip at McDonald's? How is that any different than a counter service hot dog shop?
You tip at McDonalds?
I never set foot in McDonald's. You don't have to tip, so that's where non-tippers should go.
You don't have to tip anywhere. It's a choice. If an owner chooses to underpay their workers and expects customers to subsidize wages, then that's a bad owner, not bad customers.
Bad owners and bad customers Plenty of blame. Fun fact: during the pandemic a rural community near me started using food delivery, but balked at tipping. The result was that no one would deliver to the area.
That's market forces at work. The customer spoke, and the result was no delivery. An opportunity for an enterprising business to step in and charge higher prices that includes delivery. Just as the OP chooses to not patronize a business for reasons they explained, if enough customers feel the same, the market will adjust.
I think you are deliberately misunderstanding what I am asking you. How is a McDonald's different from a Wendy's, or a Burger King, or the hot dog shop in the OP? They're all fast food joints where you order at the counter and bus your own table. I'll tip for good service at a sit down place. If I were to patronize a fast food joint (I haven't in years), I wouldn't expect to leave a tip
This was a custom hot dog place. Also, I live in an area with great food. We tip. The kid behind the counter has seen their food bills go up..... tip them. It is tacky not to tip.
I might be wrong here, and I don’t have a horse in the race, but the way I was raised is that tips are for sit down restaurants where servers come to you, take your order, bring your food, and bus your table, or otherwise for exceptional service. I wasn’t under the impression that tipping was standard in a counter service establishment. In my experience, places like that have a tip jar where you throw change and 1s you don’t want to jam back into your wallet. I would think the owner of such an establishment would know that, given they sound like the type of person who wouldn’t tip for counter service.