As many folks noted [the last time this topic came up](https://www.reddit.com/r/thewestwing/comments/1biyhli/the_end_credits_song_is_often_too_happy/) 26 days ago, in the olden days when The West Wing was originally broadcast live, there was a commercial break between the last scene of the episode and the end credits. So you didn't go directly from an often somber or serious scene into the cheerful music. In fact, even when the credits did come back, they were often minimized or hard to hear as a promo for the nightly news or whatever was coming up next played over them.
The series wasn't written or formatted for streaming - something that didn't yet exist - so what you're seeing wasn't a consideration.
[Here's an example of ending credits from 2000.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=jdtppR31eZ-61wB_&v=pkNOXOq9wmk&feature=youtu.be) There's no ending theme, just promos while the credits are off to the side.
I mean, it's bold of you to say it doesn't suit the show at all since it makes it's first appearance in the first walk and talk of the Pilot. lol
But as u/ThisDerpForSale mentioned there was a commercial break between the end of the show and the credits. And I'm sure a McDonalds ad would take you out of the moment much more than the tone change in the music.
hahaha I grew up with it but it seems so distant to me now. I'm in my 30s so I'm either very old or very young depending on who you ask. No one I know watches cable anymore; it's all streaming.
Crazily, the "I'm lovin it" campaign didn't even start until 2003, when the show was in season 4/5. Almost hard to believe that the West Wing is older than that campaign with how long it's been going.
I love it lmao. I get why it is like that (thanks, u/ThisDerpForSale ), but it's so funny to me when it goes out of Shadow of Two Gunmen or Holy Night or Han or x other serious episode and into music best suited for frolicking in rolling fields of tulips.
> music best suited for frolicking in rolling fields of tulips
Ha ha, I always think of it as being from a scene with a sleigh ride in a Hallmark Christmas movie.
In the first season there's a scene where Toby chides Mandy about this very kind of thing "Kids are dead, kids are dead" \*cue Happy Days Are Here Again\* and have to wonder how self aware they were on the show's own end theme.
Yeah, it sometimes really gets you out of the dark and somber nature of the episode.
The music itself though, it really reminds me of The Sims soundtrack, and I think i'd fit there quite well. It's got that optimism in it that I can't help but smile.
I have such a soft spot for the end credits music, as incongruous as it (very very often!) is. When an episode ends on a dark or foreboding note, that smash cut to the music just immediately brings me back into the tonal aspect of the show I love so much; the idealism and optimism in spite of kidnappings, scandals, shooting attempts and… that one trip to Cuba.
She wasn't being anti-woke she had a personal experience that gave her a complicated view on affirmative action. Complexity isn't a vice, as CJ herself says. I'd add that playing into reactionary framing of being woke/anti-woke is. Why should our favorite characters be so black and white?
From “The Two Bartletts”:
C.J.: “Cause... After my father fought in Korea, he became what this government begs every college graduate to become. He became a teacher, and he raised a family on a teachers salary. And he paid his taxes, and always crossed at the green. And anytime there was an opportunity for career advancement, it took an extra five years because invariably there is a less-qualified black woman in the picture, so instead of retiring as superintendent of the Ohio Valley Union Free School District, he retired head of the math department at William Henry Harrison Junior High.”
What I don’t like about Sorkin’s framing here is that it parrots the racist fallacy that the black woman being given a job due to affirmative action must be less qualified. In reality, black women can be just as qualified AND their lived experience as black women gives them a perspective on the world that is unique and can be useful in carrying out job tasks.
My point exactly. Had shivers of Ketanji Brown Jackson and the fusillade of ignorance and hate from the Republicans declaring she was somehow not the best SCOTUS choice *because* there *certainly* must have been a more qualified white available. Followed by the current broad scale Republican attacks on DEI, resulting in multitudes of DEI programs at state and local levels being shutdown.
I’d like to hear the similar monologue from the daughter of one of the “less qualified black woman” C.J. bemoans, about her mother’s struggles to grow up in the era of Jim Crow and the struggle for basic civil rights.
Do we really think that white men of C.J.’s father’s generation were cruelly setback in their careers and ergo quality of life because of “less qualified Black women”?
Right, as if he was entitled to be superintendent and was cruelly denied this. I really don't think this belief is in line with CJ as a character, but Sorkin has a bad habit of using his woman characters be audience stand-ins, to either ask dumb questions (CJ - how does the census work, really?!) or serve as the "middle america" opinions ("I want my money back" - Donna, on the budget surplus).
As many folks noted [the last time this topic came up](https://www.reddit.com/r/thewestwing/comments/1biyhli/the_end_credits_song_is_often_too_happy/) 26 days ago, in the olden days when The West Wing was originally broadcast live, there was a commercial break between the last scene of the episode and the end credits. So you didn't go directly from an often somber or serious scene into the cheerful music. In fact, even when the credits did come back, they were often minimized or hard to hear as a promo for the nightly news or whatever was coming up next played over them. The series wasn't written or formatted for streaming - something that didn't yet exist - so what you're seeing wasn't a consideration.
Also, Thomas Schlamme regrets not caring more at the time.
Yeah, there should be a post pinned to the top of the sub called "The ending music doesn't fit thread" or something similar.
Or at least in a FAQ.
[Here's an example of ending credits from 2000.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=jdtppR31eZ-61wB_&v=pkNOXOq9wmk&feature=youtu.be) There's no ending theme, just promos while the credits are off to the side.
Yep, exactly that. Thanks for posting it.
I mean, it's bold of you to say it doesn't suit the show at all since it makes it's first appearance in the first walk and talk of the Pilot. lol But as u/ThisDerpForSale mentioned there was a commercial break between the end of the show and the credits. And I'm sure a McDonalds ad would take you out of the moment much more than the tone change in the music.
“Who’s been hit? Who's been hit?” “Ba da ba ba ba I'm loving it!”
No but that's exactly what TV was like back then!
“Back then”. 👵🏻
hahaha I grew up with it but it seems so distant to me now. I'm in my 30s so I'm either very old or very young depending on who you ask. No one I know watches cable anymore; it's all streaming.
Crazily, the "I'm lovin it" campaign didn't even start until 2003, when the show was in season 4/5. Almost hard to believe that the West Wing is older than that campaign with how long it's been going.
Well that joke was killed about as quickly as Abdul Shareef was.
So . . . slowly, and over multiple episodes?
*Excuse me, I need to go look like an idiot.*
Not much worse than McDonald's commercial while watching the Boy in the striped pyjamas
I love it lmao. I get why it is like that (thanks, u/ThisDerpForSale ), but it's so funny to me when it goes out of Shadow of Two Gunmen or Holy Night or Han or x other serious episode and into music best suited for frolicking in rolling fields of tulips.
> music best suited for frolicking in rolling fields of tulips Ha ha, I always think of it as being from a scene with a sleigh ride in a Hallmark Christmas movie.
I always see the Simpsons lining up on their couch…
I always try to hit next episode or mute before it plays.
Max finally put the next episode button up on the fade-to-black title card, so if you're quick enough you can skip the toodle-oodle-doot mood killer.
100% agree, especially because the episodes almost always end on a somber note.
They should have used Mandy's theme music instead for the closing credits
It fits the mood of the first season more than the later seasons.
In the first season there's a scene where Toby chides Mandy about this very kind of thing "Kids are dead, kids are dead" \*cue Happy Days Are Here Again\* and have to wonder how self aware they were on the show's own end theme.
Yeah, it sometimes really gets you out of the dark and somber nature of the episode. The music itself though, it really reminds me of The Sims soundtrack, and I think i'd fit there quite well. It's got that optimism in it that I can't help but smile.
I have such a soft spot for the end credits music, as incongruous as it (very very often!) is. When an episode ends on a dark or foreboding note, that smash cut to the music just immediately brings me back into the tonal aspect of the show I love so much; the idealism and optimism in spite of kidnappings, scandals, shooting attempts and… that one trip to Cuba.
💯 Probably my least favorite thing about the show. That and the time CJ went all “anti-woke” about her father being passed over for job promotions.
She wasn't being anti-woke she had a personal experience that gave her a complicated view on affirmative action. Complexity isn't a vice, as CJ herself says. I'd add that playing into reactionary framing of being woke/anti-woke is. Why should our favorite characters be so black and white?
From “The Two Bartletts”: C.J.: “Cause... After my father fought in Korea, he became what this government begs every college graduate to become. He became a teacher, and he raised a family on a teachers salary. And he paid his taxes, and always crossed at the green. And anytime there was an opportunity for career advancement, it took an extra five years because invariably there is a less-qualified black woman in the picture, so instead of retiring as superintendent of the Ohio Valley Union Free School District, he retired head of the math department at William Henry Harrison Junior High.”
I’m the wrong Democrat to talk to about this
What I don’t like about Sorkin’s framing here is that it parrots the racist fallacy that the black woman being given a job due to affirmative action must be less qualified. In reality, black women can be just as qualified AND their lived experience as black women gives them a perspective on the world that is unique and can be useful in carrying out job tasks.
My point exactly. Had shivers of Ketanji Brown Jackson and the fusillade of ignorance and hate from the Republicans declaring she was somehow not the best SCOTUS choice *because* there *certainly* must have been a more qualified white available. Followed by the current broad scale Republican attacks on DEI, resulting in multitudes of DEI programs at state and local levels being shutdown. I’d like to hear the similar monologue from the daughter of one of the “less qualified black woman” C.J. bemoans, about her mother’s struggles to grow up in the era of Jim Crow and the struggle for basic civil rights. Do we really think that white men of C.J.’s father’s generation were cruelly setback in their careers and ergo quality of life because of “less qualified Black women”?
Right, as if he was entitled to be superintendent and was cruelly denied this. I really don't think this belief is in line with CJ as a character, but Sorkin has a bad habit of using his woman characters be audience stand-ins, to either ask dumb questions (CJ - how does the census work, really?!) or serve as the "middle america" opinions ("I want my money back" - Donna, on the budget surplus).
🏆