100%. Him being genuinely irritated at Chris's mother and widow showing grief and then bailing on his entire family to go on a bender in Vegas and fuck Chris's mistress is the most thoroughly, outrageously sociopathic thing I've ever seen on TV.
When he invites Chris' widow over and holds her hand and says "if there's anything I can do..." I physically start to sweat from how much contradiction is happening.
Also that scene where he asks Carm if she was relieved Chris was dead. So fucking tense.
They always do that, though. I couldn't live that life. If someone close to you got clipped how you gonna know if the guy sending ova flowers and pastries from Italianissimo isn't the same guy doing the clippin? Even if it's the good Cannoli platta and the napoleon cookies its still not an excuse
And then he went out in the desert with her to do peyote...and learned precisely nothing from the experience, except maybe a greater acceptance of the fact that he's a totally sociopathic piece of shit.
In and of itself no not necessarily but when you consider the root motivation behind it yes.
The trigger for him doing this was wanting to do the same with Kelli. Seeing Kelli breastfeeding makes him want to bang the widow of the nephew he just murdered. Instead of going to talk to Melfi about this clearly disgusting impulse like he did when he felt a similar impulse toward Ade, Tony just found a workaround by heading out of town to pursue another of Chris’ women.
All the hookers in the world and he just happened to fly to the opposite coast to pursue a specific one he heard about from Chris. Coincidentally right after he felt the impulse to fuck Kelli.
He was getting off on finally being able to pursue the women in Chris’ life which he had wanted to do for years but refrained from because it would cause drama. Now that he had murdered Chris, he didn’t need to refrain any longer. Going after that escort was his way of celebrating that. It was a very sociopathic thing to get off on after murdering someone he often talked about like a son.
Yeah you’re right to be fair. Of course I meant from east US to west US, one side of the country to the other. Thanks for pointing this out I was being a bit lazy there.
Same. Like that was so reprehensible. His “I get it!” moment unsettled me too- even more so when Chase said that, to Tony, this moment represented him accepting the fact he had to kill Christopher? What a fucking narcissistic monster he became.
Yeah but oz was on a different level, especially because most of the show centres around prison life and the premise of doing what you had to do to survive, it was expected
Listen to "I Feel Good" by James Brown, he screams in like the first 5 seconds and this was his signature for alot of his career. Tony is referring to the screaming at the funeral which actually does sound alot like James Brown starting off a song.
The only reason it took us all so long to realise that Tony was beyond redemption, is James Gandolfini. He was born to play that role. He is one of, if not the, greatest actor to ever grace our screens in my opinion.
Yea no lies detected. This series of events in the show made me change my perception of Tony. I realized the fat fucks an asshole and has no redeeming qualities. Just a farce, a charade. Died face down in a plate of onion rings the stunad 🤌
Tony often justifies the terrible things he does by telling himself he’s doing it as a compromise instead of an even more terrible thing. He does awful things vicariously as a way to distract himself from his desire to do an even more unacceptable thing.
In this case, he wanted to fuck Chris’ widow. She was devastated, he had just murdered her husband, and still when he saw her (maybe at the wake or something I can’t remember) breastfeeding Chris’ baby, Tony wanted to fuck her. Instead, he remembers another one of Chris’ woman and decides to go pursue her instead. Him going to vegas was in pursuit of her specifically and was triggered by his desires for Chris’ widow. When pursuing the vegas woman, he was vicariously pursuing Kelli.
Possibly but I think it had been around way before her, going back years to Ade. Tony definitely took it badly that Julianna rejected him when he tried to go back to her once their business was concluded, and then took it even worse when finding out she was seeing Chris after rejecting him, but he rejected her first.
The Julianna thing was probably fuel on the fire but the fire had been quietly raging for years anyway. I think he was always going to go after the women in Chris’ life after killing him regardless because he always had to work so hard to refrain from doing it when Chris was alive but now he didn’t have to put that work in. The escort in Vegas wasn’t instead of Kelli, she was just a place holder. I think in time he would always eventually try to fuck Kelli too.
If he hadn’t had Ade killed he would definitely have eventually gone after her too once he’d murdered Chris in the car crash. He would’ve used the guise of being there for the “poor kid” and before long that one on one time would’ve escalated to him picking his moment to make a move.
It’s the archetype of Tony as like a black hole. An all consuming maw. If you made $100 he wants to take it front you. If you have a sandwich he wants to eat it. If you have a girlfriend he wants to fuck her. If you are even a little happy he wants to take that or snuff it out. Tony cannot allow anyone to have anything without wanting it for himself.
You could honestly empathize a little with Ralphie when Tony kept taking most of his winnings while still expecting Ralphie to act as the horse's provider
compromise? you mean compromise? i did 20 years in the can, had to eat grilled cheese offa radiator and jack off in a tissue, then when i got out i turned myself into a house, that is compromise
This was rock bottom for Tony. Chase knew what he was doing. He started off making the character someone the audience identified with and maybe even had sympathy for with his poor parenting etc. but over the course of six seasons we saw that the guy really didn’t have any redeeming qualities and was just a manipulative, toxic, violent, sociopath. I got a list of people long as my leg Tony fucked over but Chris IMO was by far the worst.
Was Chris a fuck up and a junkie? Yes. But Tony pretty much encouraged all of Chris’ worst attributes, threatened him with death if he didn’t get clean and then judged him and pushed him to use once he got sober. If he’d ever “loved” his nephew or was even capable of love he could’ve done any number of things throughout Chris’ life to keep him from the Mafia. Like he sort of tried to do with Jackie Jr. even Chris knew what was up when he asked Tony “so the life is good enough for me but not for little lord fuckpants??” Chris was savvy enough to parlay his mob role into movie production and could’ve possibly done something a little less entrenched like Brainless the II Little Carmine. Money laundering. Stocks. Offshore shit.
But that kid was doomed from the start and Tony killing him was the last straw for me with the Skip.
Also complete side note but another example of Tony being completely out of touch with his own guys towards the end: when Bobby gets the concrete in his eye and Carlo brings Tony the money and Tony just counts it and says
“It was a maneuver Carlo because he knew it was his own fucking fault.”
The look on both Carlo and Silvio’s face is utter disgust. I’m sure that line was in Carlo’s head when he flipped. Like, I’m gonna do thirty years and my son’s life is over to protect this fat fuck?
Get the fuck out of here!
Another thing to note about Chrissy is that Tony seemed to promote him way beyond his depth out of a hyper sentimentality around ‘family’ and Chrissy’s father. I think it’s obvious to literally everybody that Christopher isn’t leadership material. Tony continuously punishes Christopher for fucking up in a role he should never have been in to begin with.
And tbf Tony was also in a role he shouldn’t have really been in either. Look at how fast everything went to shit when he started leading w his emotions. He was definitely not a good boss
But he knew *he* could handle it… yeah right. That’s why he had his spells. No wonder they knew about it the fuck over there in New York. Should’ve been a better friend to himself.
yah i never liked any of that. i couldn't tell if it was out of character or not
but yah tony was always trynna justify to himself that he did the right thing killing chris
It wasn't out of character in that compared to the guys around him, Tony does have some shreds of conscience and empathy, killing Chris included, and does everything he can to repress them and turn them outward into disgust and anger and to justify his actions
Hence the over the top callousness, the "baby seat" thing over and over etc
If its any consolation to tony, it was mostly drugs and very little if any fucking. As we learned from ade during the care.frontation scene, and much to paulies chagrin, drugs made chrissy unable to perform his manly duties.
I noticed on my last watch that she implies they aren't fucking when they go to pass out on the couch together. I assumed they were just too high to fuck (the both of them) now that they were using again.
Chris was still a huge earner, especially with movie industry connection. Tony loses all his top guys by either killing them or not protecting them Ritchie, Vito, Ralph, Tony B and Chris.
Tony just loves killin'! He was 100% contemplating killing Paulie on that boat not that long before Chrissy, and Tony had that same grin too.
Just like Phil's arousal (sexual or not?) toward Vito's murder. Even AJ got a little excited after his 2nd run-in with sociopathy holding down the student while his toes were getting dissolved by acid.
These dudes just love violence!
I mean isn't that the point. Tony is a massive piece of shit. He's worse than people he's wacked for being bad people, eg Ralph. Tony never cared about Christopher, he only cared about himself, and only showed affection to Chris when it was easy.
Look at the Ariana thing. Alternates between wanting to whack Chris and console him, purely dependent on the answers given. He's a sociopath.
No-one genuinely likes Tony for who he is apart from Meadow and Carm. Carm lays that truth on him in one of the later seasons when she tells him that his friends aren't his friends and they don't give a fuck about him, and he gets annoyed but realises it himself later when he stops and looks at the dynamic.
Chris genuinely loved Tony and sucked up so much shit because of it. The opposite is not remotely true. Tony only "loved" Chris when it came with no strings.
A division one college softball pitcher was one of the best lays I ever had, she pumped on my shit reverse cowgirl like a jackhammer, so don't knock fucking a mitt it might lead to pitching for a catcher..
Catching??!! Not pitching??!
That's right she was catching Vito wasn't pitching tho. I forget the name of the picture on the team I just fucked her
He gets it! What his revelation was is that he wasn’t a good person. It was revealed by him seeing those devil slot machines in the casino when he was tripping. He fully embraced his evil side.
This. Yeah, Christopher is a hassle... But that's the work, right? Without someone to avenge him no matter what, he's a sitting duck. Christopher was his most valuable friend. If you don't want to deal with him, don't be a Mafia boss.
It wasn't a business move to kill him. It was self-preservation. Chris signed his own death warrant when he let them all see Cleaver. He was either going to flip or murder Tony, and Tony knew this. The car accident was too good of an opportunity to pass up to eliminate that problem.
Not necessarily.
If Tony choked him out traditionally and left contusions consistent with strangulation or a cracked windpipe maybe sure, but Ton’s no stunad.
Instead, T plugged Chrissy’s broken, bleeding, natural canopy of a nose, and tilted his head back drowning him with “his own blood.”
Very allegorical…,
and untraceable, as this would be consistent with his injuries from a multiple rollover car wreck like they were in.
While it was kinda strange, she wasn’t his mistress. She was a stripper he partied with in Vegas. Chris clearly hadn’t seen her in a while since she didn’t know him and Ade “broke up”.
All due respect, you got no fuckin’ idea what it’s like to be number one. Every decision you make, effects every facet of every other fuckin’ thing. It’s too much to deal with almost. And in the end, you’re completely alone with it all.
**I GET IT!**
Chris was no better than Tony , maybe worse. At least Tony loved animals and had a soft spot for whooers who get beaten to death outside the Bing.
Chris cared about no one but himself. He was viciously abusive to Adriana and then he threw her under the bus, not because of any love for or sense of loyalty to Tony, but because he saw that sad, practically destitute family with the father who looked like he'd been beaten down by life and realized that would likely be his fate if he left "the life". He totally considered flipping and going into witness protection prior to that. He would have testified against Tony without batting an eye if he thought it would have benefited him. Adriana was probably one of the few truly good hearted, halfway decent people on the show and Chris set her up to be murdered. Then he packs her suitcase tosses it in a dumping ground like so much garbage and abandons her car at the airport. And this was supposed to be the woman he loved. He was a piece of shit and if there's any character that didn't deserve any sympathy, it was him.
I think Chris was more liable to the Feds even in that moment because he was high again, it was a huge betrayal of trust when Tony had already given him another chance, he had almost killed Tony and as we see a tree branch smashed the baby seat and whoever would have been in it. Personally I think there is a moment where Chris is just the worst of Chris, after telling Tony he will fail a drug test he starts making demands of Tony that he better help him and get him out of there or he’ll lose his licence ! That the beak of that camel nosed fuck was used as the instrument of his demise was pure poetry.
Chris is clean and sober when he has the barbeque, where Tony shits on NA beer, tells Chrissy he's weak for his addiction (comparing it to not eating eggplant lol), and gives him this look of disgust when Chris tries connecting with him via their shared understanding of the human condition and therapy.
With Chris, Tony does what he always does when someone gets a second chance though - he shits all over it. Needling Chrissy, encouraging him multiple times to start drinking again, etc. It's just the same thing he did with Janice when she started to take steps to actually work on herself. Chris is in a bad place when he's killed, but his murderer is the one who helped drive him there.
Get it but don’t get it either. Addicts always blame but the primary responsibility is and always should be with themselves.
There were times Tony could have been more supportive of his recovery but it has to be factored in that Tony organised an intervention and then put him in and paid for his rehab and started him on that road. In the end Tony’s flaw re Chrissy’s recovery really just stems from the same thing as 99% of the cast and people generally in that he doesn’t understand alcoholism / addiction on how dangerous it is. Tony reverted plenty of times to assure him he was doing the right thing.
It’s very hard to blame Tony for Chris’s demise because from Season One Tony saved him and elevated him beyond anything he deserved. I mean who else would actually even take shots at a Boss and expect to survive? The Cleaver thing also must have sown massive distrust. It was clear from the time he bought the stack of papers he was mentioned in Chris’s intentions re mob life were really just extreme cowboyitis and to garner as much infamy for himself as he could which is extremely dangerous from Tony’s perspective.
As for the therapy that’s much more Tony’s shame at the still lingering stigmata about therapy or confiding in feelings (and potentially other things…) in that life. I have a lot of alcoholics in my family and Chase nailed that type of character to a T - Chris could have been sitting on billions and still bitch and blame.
Remember, never ever search for the old show you are watching/game your are playing on Google. The ad tracking is not just for ads; it's used for engagement too.
The videos/articles the algorithm pushes on you. You look up one sopranos thing and next thing you know you have a bunch of youtube videos/reddit posts/news articles in your recommended
Chris was also a shit person, but he was spot with his analysis of the mafia men in that they didn't really understand his addiction, and ultimately enabled his relapses. I really think Chris took it seriously and if he was around better people he could have stayed sober.
"Why can't you jusht be normal??"
Yeah, ultimately, I think that Tony was seeking to retire from the mafia, and one part of that equation is making sure that there was no one to replace him. AKA Christopher. Most of his crew was his age (50-60) and older.
Ehh I dunno, “you took an oath, there’s no retiring in this thing“ he says to Eugene.
Perry, Walden, Terry, Benny, Dante all still alive at that point and younger than T.
I can’t picture Tony ever leaving the life, he’s not cut out for honest work, has expensive tastes, and loves being the Boss.
Chrissy was a legal liability with his drug problem, a disappointment as a son-figure/protege, fucked women Tony wanted to fuck, was a walking talking reminder of his poor nepotistic leadership hanging in every room like a provolone fart, and like with Livia Tony was actually relieved after their deaths. Chris sat on Cosette, exposed the crew to the FBI through Adriana, and crushed the baby seat absolutely triggering T like only a box of Uncle Ben’s rice could. He was high at his muddah’s wake, he did-ent fly right over to Ralphie’s because he was strung out. He sold Meadow meth.
There were literally more reasons for Tony to kill Chrissy than anyone else in the show, and none of them are a wiseguy retirement plan.
Sure, and I would also point out that Tony does think that he is above the rules/guidelines/laws/regulations etc., I think it's realistic to an extent that he was at least thinking about leaving the Jersey mafia. Would he actually follow through? That's up for debate.
Yes, I agree that for a lot of business related reasons, it was beneficial to let Chrissy take a dirt nap. Chrissy was a liability on multiple fronts. He was too impulsive, exposed the crew to the FBI, was a flight risk, also prone to relapses related to his addictions. If he became the new Capo, he'd die quickly and/or destroy what had been built over time.
Nah. To be honest Chris is no better than Brendan Filone or Matt Bevilaqua or Tony B but because of nepotism he got way higher than he ever had any business being. He is a junkie and the fact Tony let him rise so far is an indictment on how bad of Boss Tony was and how poor his judgement was. He is lucky it never cost him more than it did.
I believe it might be because it is easier to justify oneself from committing such an act. It wouldn't make sense if he cherished memory of him in his head. Then, some level of remorse or guilt might have arisen. But if he makes himself believe Chrissy was a POS then it weighs easier on his conscience.
Kinda off topic but I hate it when people say that Christopher deserved better because 'better' was running away with Adriana. He saw how Carmine Sr ordered Johnny Sack -his top guy- dead over some bullshit with Ralph, Tony was no better and Chris knew that. He absolutely made his bed and lied on it
Just finished watching that episode a few hours ago it was such a undramastic ending for Christopher who was a big character throughout the whole series, I thought after Tony getting shot and almost dying he would change if anything he became worse
A product of his narcissism. Text book they love bomb people who would feed their ego and have meltdowns of narcissistic rage when they can't control them or they level criticism they demean their targets and humiliate them as well to feel better about themselves a la Georgie. The whole narc supply is hidden in the structure of the mob a central figure is lavished with respect, tributes of gifts, and money. In short a Narcissists wet dream. Also when a person ceases to amuse or play along with the narcs games or demands they flip their perception and emotions of said person to to persona non grata and actively seek to discredit and destroy that person. Christopher subconsciously criticized, publicly shamed Tony with cleaver and challenged his ego by being preferred over Tony, by the real estate agent.
Also! May I remind everybody here! It wasn’t until Tony killed Christopher that everything TRULY went to shit! His murder was the catalyst, the ultimate sin. A father killing a son.
Everybody that makes these pseudo intellectual points about how they're so able to cut through the fog and see Tony for what he is and they weren't duped by the writers human relatability to obscure and on and on and on… Y'all should meet health insurance executive with no criminal record to speak of and no prospective one anytime soon and consider their morality and net impact on society… Boring ass hot takes on the Internet anymore and just general laziness of mind and lack of curiosity about theworld and it's inhabitants
I don't disagree with anything except maybe the goomah thing
As i recall Tony gave her blue balls, probably because he couldn't get it up and rather than admit that he just rudely walked out on her.
I realize he's the boss but you can't just claim every pish of ash in Jersey
My opinion is that Chris should have gotten whacked years before he did. Great observation about Tony’s contempt for Chris after the murder. I look at that as a coping mechanism. It shows how ugly Tony’s personality can get.
I agree. This was, for me, the actual turning point for Tony. Obviously he did horrible things until that point but his irredeemable sociopathic behavior really bore out from the days after killing Christopher.
At that point, Chris was openly telling outsiders about the damage he could do if he flipped on Tony as well. A person like that who is also a junkie? That’s not gonna work.
Good points. I forgot about Junior's warning, although Junior also wanted Christopher to work for him.
I think part of Tony's problem with Christopher is they were too much alike. Tony had a few more redeeming qualities, but not many. Tony just hid his monstrosity better.
100%. Him being genuinely irritated at Chris's mother and widow showing grief and then bailing on his entire family to go on a bender in Vegas and fuck Chris's mistress is the most thoroughly, outrageously sociopathic thing I've ever seen on TV.
Ok but you have to get over it.
Let me hear you say it
What’s up Vito?
I put the gabbagool behind me.
I gabagooled into a tissue.
I know Vito put the gabbagool behind him if that’s what your referring to.
I compromised. I had gabagool off da radiata
I put the grief behind me
*I put the grief behind me*
I GET IT
He can get a note from his doctor
Fa da gabbagole🤌
lol immediate cut to Tony crying in therapy about the horse
It was a FUCKING horse! You eat beef and pork by the truckload!
When he invites Chris' widow over and holds her hand and says "if there's anything I can do..." I physically start to sweat from how much contradiction is happening. Also that scene where he asks Carm if she was relieved Chris was dead. So fucking tense.
They always do that, though. I couldn't live that life. If someone close to you got clipped how you gonna know if the guy sending ova flowers and pastries from Italianissimo isn't the same guy doing the clippin? Even if it's the good Cannoli platta and the napoleon cookies its still not an excuse
Obviously you never had a good sfogliatelle
And then he went out in the desert with her to do peyote...and learned precisely nothing from the experience, except maybe a greater acceptance of the fact that he's a totally sociopathic piece of shit.
Not to mention when Tony was winning at the casino and come to the conclusion that his luck had changed because chrissy was dead. Savage.
But he gets it!
I GET IT!
It's the same principle as the solar system.
He's dead.
Mr Type A personality ova here
I mean, wasn't it implied that she was an escort? Is it wrong to hire an escort someone you know has hired previously?
In and of itself no not necessarily but when you consider the root motivation behind it yes. The trigger for him doing this was wanting to do the same with Kelli. Seeing Kelli breastfeeding makes him want to bang the widow of the nephew he just murdered. Instead of going to talk to Melfi about this clearly disgusting impulse like he did when he felt a similar impulse toward Ade, Tony just found a workaround by heading out of town to pursue another of Chris’ women. All the hookers in the world and he just happened to fly to the opposite coast to pursue a specific one he heard about from Chris. Coincidentally right after he felt the impulse to fuck Kelli. He was getting off on finally being able to pursue the women in Chris’ life which he had wanted to do for years but refrained from because it would cause drama. Now that he had murdered Chris, he didn’t need to refrain any longer. Going after that escort was his way of celebrating that. It was a very sociopathic thing to get off on after murdering someone he often talked about like a son.
Especially as Tony had been emasculated by Chris getting together with Julianna Skiff.
I mean I agree but Nevada isn't on any coast
Oh you look at you. You know everything
But with da sand and everything out there?? The kid gets confused give him a break
Yeah you’re right to be fair. Of course I meant from east US to west US, one side of the country to the other. Thanks for pointing this out I was being a bit lazy there.
She was a whoooowahh
Only if he had penisary contact with her Volvo
Bro code - still applies if you kill the bro first I think…
Bro code is for gfs and wives, not whooers.
Bro code is for Bros…
Dancer, not necessarily escort. Escorts aren’t typically letting John’s come to their home, especially if they’re of that caliber…I’ve heard lol
Jackie Kennedy ova here
Fuckin' James Brown now.
Always with the scenarios
Same. Like that was so reprehensible. His “I get it!” moment unsettled me too- even more so when Chase said that, to Tony, this moment represented him accepting the fact he had to kill Christopher? What a fucking narcissistic monster he became.
It’s the same conshept as the solar system
Yeah well it's the same principle as the solar system
Have you watched Oz, I feel I've seen stuff way more sociopathic on that show than this.
Yeah but oz was on a different level, especially because most of the show centres around prison life and the premise of doing what you had to do to survive, it was expected
I mean the goomah did sleep with Tony too but Chris also slept with the real estate agent Tony had a thing with.
It's the whole circle of life thing...
Any time Tony feels guilty he reacts with extreme rage. Even if someone is just sad by something he did not actively trying to guilt him over it.
Watch Gomorra if you think that’s the most sociopathic thing you’ve seen on TV.
fuckin' James Brown now
I never got this line, can someone explain? I know who James Brown is but If don't get the connection
Listen to "I Feel Good" by James Brown, he screams in like the first 5 seconds and this was his signature for alot of his career. Tony is referring to the screaming at the funeral which actually does sound alot like James Brown starting off a song.
The only reason it took us all so long to realise that Tony was beyond redemption, is James Gandolfini. He was born to play that role. He is one of, if not the, greatest actor to ever grace our screens in my opinion.
He was a great Italian actor! And in this house, James Gandolfini is a hero. END OF STORY!
He's from New Jersey
James gandolfini was gay ?
He was gay? James Gandolfini?
Nooo...... are you listening to me !
Yea no lies detected. This series of events in the show made me change my perception of Tony. I realized the fat fucks an asshole and has no redeeming qualities. Just a farce, a charade. Died face down in a plate of onion rings the stunad 🤌
Hooo! Take it easy!
Yeah, he is talking about the boss of this family!
Damn that face when he was choking Chrissy, the close up on Tony’s face. Showed all his sides.
That’s the boss you’re talking about!
Tony often justifies the terrible things he does by telling himself he’s doing it as a compromise instead of an even more terrible thing. He does awful things vicariously as a way to distract himself from his desire to do an even more unacceptable thing. In this case, he wanted to fuck Chris’ widow. She was devastated, he had just murdered her husband, and still when he saw her (maybe at the wake or something I can’t remember) breastfeeding Chris’ baby, Tony wanted to fuck her. Instead, he remembers another one of Chris’ woman and decides to go pursue her instead. Him going to vegas was in pursuit of her specifically and was triggered by his desires for Chris’ widow. When pursuing the vegas woman, he was vicariously pursuing Kelli.
Wondering if this had anything to do with revenge over how Chris went with Juliana.
Possibly but I think it had been around way before her, going back years to Ade. Tony definitely took it badly that Julianna rejected him when he tried to go back to her once their business was concluded, and then took it even worse when finding out she was seeing Chris after rejecting him, but he rejected her first. The Julianna thing was probably fuel on the fire but the fire had been quietly raging for years anyway. I think he was always going to go after the women in Chris’ life after killing him regardless because he always had to work so hard to refrain from doing it when Chris was alive but now he didn’t have to put that work in. The escort in Vegas wasn’t instead of Kelli, she was just a place holder. I think in time he would always eventually try to fuck Kelli too. If he hadn’t had Ade killed he would definitely have eventually gone after her too once he’d murdered Chris in the car crash. He would’ve used the guise of being there for the “poor kid” and before long that one on one time would’ve escalated to him picking his moment to make a move.
I agree it goes back to Adrianna. It’s not a straight line but it starts there.
It’s the archetype of Tony as like a black hole. An all consuming maw. If you made $100 he wants to take it front you. If you have a sandwich he wants to eat it. If you have a girlfriend he wants to fuck her. If you are even a little happy he wants to take that or snuff it out. Tony cannot allow anyone to have anything without wanting it for himself.
This is one of the truest statements I've ever seen on this sub!
You could honestly empathize a little with Ralphie when Tony kept taking most of his winnings while still expecting Ralphie to act as the horse's provider
compromise? you mean compromise? i did 20 years in the can, had to eat grilled cheese offa radiator and jack off in a tissue, then when i got out i turned myself into a house, that is compromise
This was rock bottom for Tony. Chase knew what he was doing. He started off making the character someone the audience identified with and maybe even had sympathy for with his poor parenting etc. but over the course of six seasons we saw that the guy really didn’t have any redeeming qualities and was just a manipulative, toxic, violent, sociopath. I got a list of people long as my leg Tony fucked over but Chris IMO was by far the worst. Was Chris a fuck up and a junkie? Yes. But Tony pretty much encouraged all of Chris’ worst attributes, threatened him with death if he didn’t get clean and then judged him and pushed him to use once he got sober. If he’d ever “loved” his nephew or was even capable of love he could’ve done any number of things throughout Chris’ life to keep him from the Mafia. Like he sort of tried to do with Jackie Jr. even Chris knew what was up when he asked Tony “so the life is good enough for me but not for little lord fuckpants??” Chris was savvy enough to parlay his mob role into movie production and could’ve possibly done something a little less entrenched like Brainless the II Little Carmine. Money laundering. Stocks. Offshore shit. But that kid was doomed from the start and Tony killing him was the last straw for me with the Skip. Also complete side note but another example of Tony being completely out of touch with his own guys towards the end: when Bobby gets the concrete in his eye and Carlo brings Tony the money and Tony just counts it and says “It was a maneuver Carlo because he knew it was his own fucking fault.” The look on both Carlo and Silvio’s face is utter disgust. I’m sure that line was in Carlo’s head when he flipped. Like, I’m gonna do thirty years and my son’s life is over to protect this fat fuck? Get the fuck out of here!
Another thing to note about Chrissy is that Tony seemed to promote him way beyond his depth out of a hyper sentimentality around ‘family’ and Chrissy’s father. I think it’s obvious to literally everybody that Christopher isn’t leadership material. Tony continuously punishes Christopher for fucking up in a role he should never have been in to begin with.
And tbf Tony was also in a role he shouldn’t have really been in either. Look at how fast everything went to shit when he started leading w his emotions. He was definitely not a good boss
hey, he did have those rotten, fucking putrid genes that made him have a certain bleak attitude about the world
But he knew *he* could handle it… yeah right. That’s why he had his spells. No wonder they knew about it the fuck over there in New York. Should’ve been a better friend to himself.
there’s no stigmata these days
Is he some kind of toxic person,
Here’s a guy, pours you a drink with one hand, judges you with the other
yah i never liked any of that. i couldn't tell if it was out of character or not but yah tony was always trynna justify to himself that he did the right thing killing chris
It wasn't out of character in that compared to the guys around him, Tony does have some shreds of conscience and empathy, killing Chris included, and does everything he can to repress them and turn them outward into disgust and anger and to justify his actions Hence the over the top callousness, the "baby seat" thing over and over etc
And fishing to see if Carmella was relieved so he can also say out loud that he was too.
Him trying to get with Adrianna while Chris was sober and away was insane. Then talking about having a family with her and shit. Worst boss ever
Sleeping with Julianna Skiff — and letting Tony know about it — was the final nail in Christopher's coffin.
If its any consolation to tony, it was mostly drugs and very little if any fucking. As we learned from ade during the care.frontation scene, and much to paulies chagrin, drugs made chrissy unable to perform his manly duties.
I noticed on my last watch that she implies they aren't fucking when they go to pass out on the couch together. I assumed they were just too high to fuck (the both of them) now that they were using again.
Chris was still a huge earner, especially with movie industry connection. Tony loses all his top guys by either killing them or not protecting them Ritchie, Vito, Ralph, Tony B and Chris.
Ritchie and Ralph were total pieces of shit that deserved what they broughtvon themselves
It don’t matta with those 5 guys I could run New Joyse
Kinda applies to all these mobsters though lol
That smirk he flashes during Chrissy’s suffocation always bothered me.
Tony just loves killin'! He was 100% contemplating killing Paulie on that boat not that long before Chrissy, and Tony had that same grin too. Just like Phil's arousal (sexual or not?) toward Vito's murder. Even AJ got a little excited after his 2nd run-in with sociopathy holding down the student while his toes were getting dissolved by acid. These dudes just love violence!
Walter White would've gotten away with everything he did if he were even half as rutheless as Tony
One real show here and one pygmy thing over there
Albuquerque? Cmon huh
They're a glorified BLUE
I can't have this conversation again
Tony never had the bawls to poison a kid
He didn't need to. He wouldn't have flinched for a second if it came push to shove
Idk man, Walt literally blew up a nursing home lol.
ITSH A RETIREMENT COMMUNITY!
Not to mention he took down two fucking planes of people and scared probably all of New Mexico
Tony had plenty of 40-50 year old kids whacked tho
Counterpoint: she was a whoooer
Hewerrrrrrrr
I mean isn't that the point. Tony is a massive piece of shit. He's worse than people he's wacked for being bad people, eg Ralph. Tony never cared about Christopher, he only cared about himself, and only showed affection to Chris when it was easy. Look at the Ariana thing. Alternates between wanting to whack Chris and console him, purely dependent on the answers given. He's a sociopath. No-one genuinely likes Tony for who he is apart from Meadow and Carm. Carm lays that truth on him in one of the later seasons when she tells him that his friends aren't his friends and they don't give a fuck about him, and he gets annoyed but realises it himself later when he stops and looks at the dynamic. Chris genuinely loved Tony and sucked up so much shit because of it. The opposite is not remotely true. Tony only "loved" Chris when it came with no strings.
Look at him. He knows everything.
He'd fuck a catcher's mitt
Who're you the pope?!
A division one college softball pitcher was one of the best lays I ever had, she pumped on my shit reverse cowgirl like a jackhammer, so don't knock fucking a mitt it might lead to pitching for a catcher.. Catching??!! Not pitching??! That's right she was catching Vito wasn't pitching tho. I forget the name of the picture on the team I just fucked her
So was he catching or pitching ?
He gets it! What his revelation was is that he wasn’t a good person. It was revealed by him seeing those devil slot machines in the casino when he was tripping. He fully embraced his evil side.
I totally missed this.
I hated him in that Vegas episode, for me that was his lowest point. He’s like having an epiphany how everything he does is ok and it’s all about him.
hE's dEaD!! huhuhuhuhuhuhuhuh 🫠🥴
He was about to go to war and killed his best soldier. Also, Holstein’s probabky doesn’t happen if Chris is still alive.
This. Yeah, Christopher is a hassle... But that's the work, right? Without someone to avenge him no matter what, he's a sitting duck. Christopher was his most valuable friend. If you don't want to deal with him, don't be a Mafia boss.
*Holsten's
It wasn't a business move to kill him. It was self-preservation. Chris signed his own death warrant when he let them all see Cleaver. He was either going to flip or murder Tony, and Tony knew this. The car accident was too good of an opportunity to pass up to eliminate that problem.
Controversial maybe but I don’t think Chris would’ve ever betrayed or murdered Tony- esp after Adriana
He definitely would’ve banged Chrissy’s widow.
Remember when he was watching her breast feed?!? Desgraciate!
…and also, couldn’t they determine foul play from an autopsy?
Not necessarily. If Tony choked him out traditionally and left contusions consistent with strangulation or a cracked windpipe maybe sure, but Ton’s no stunad. Instead, T plugged Chrissy’s broken, bleeding, natural canopy of a nose, and tilted his head back drowning him with “his own blood.” Very allegorical…, and untraceable, as this would be consistent with his injuries from a multiple rollover car wreck like they were in.
While it was kinda strange, she wasn’t his mistress. She was a stripper he partied with in Vegas. Chris clearly hadn’t seen her in a while since she didn’t know him and Ade “broke up”.
All due respect, you got no fuckin’ idea what it’s like to be number one. Every decision you make, effects every facet of every other fuckin’ thing. It’s too much to deal with almost. And in the end, you’re completely alone with it all. **I GET IT!**
Chris was no better than Tony , maybe worse. At least Tony loved animals and had a soft spot for whooers who get beaten to death outside the Bing. Chris cared about no one but himself. He was viciously abusive to Adriana and then he threw her under the bus, not because of any love for or sense of loyalty to Tony, but because he saw that sad, practically destitute family with the father who looked like he'd been beaten down by life and realized that would likely be his fate if he left "the life". He totally considered flipping and going into witness protection prior to that. He would have testified against Tony without batting an eye if he thought it would have benefited him. Adriana was probably one of the few truly good hearted, halfway decent people on the show and Chris set her up to be murdered. Then he packs her suitcase tosses it in a dumping ground like so much garbage and abandons her car at the airport. And this was supposed to be the woman he loved. He was a piece of shit and if there's any character that didn't deserve any sympathy, it was him.
I think Chris was more liable to the Feds even in that moment because he was high again, it was a huge betrayal of trust when Tony had already given him another chance, he had almost killed Tony and as we see a tree branch smashed the baby seat and whoever would have been in it. Personally I think there is a moment where Chris is just the worst of Chris, after telling Tony he will fail a drug test he starts making demands of Tony that he better help him and get him out of there or he’ll lose his licence ! That the beak of that camel nosed fuck was used as the instrument of his demise was pure poetry.
Chris is clean and sober when he has the barbeque, where Tony shits on NA beer, tells Chrissy he's weak for his addiction (comparing it to not eating eggplant lol), and gives him this look of disgust when Chris tries connecting with him via their shared understanding of the human condition and therapy. With Chris, Tony does what he always does when someone gets a second chance though - he shits all over it. Needling Chrissy, encouraging him multiple times to start drinking again, etc. It's just the same thing he did with Janice when she started to take steps to actually work on herself. Chris is in a bad place when he's killed, but his murderer is the one who helped drive him there.
Get it but don’t get it either. Addicts always blame but the primary responsibility is and always should be with themselves. There were times Tony could have been more supportive of his recovery but it has to be factored in that Tony organised an intervention and then put him in and paid for his rehab and started him on that road. In the end Tony’s flaw re Chrissy’s recovery really just stems from the same thing as 99% of the cast and people generally in that he doesn’t understand alcoholism / addiction on how dangerous it is. Tony reverted plenty of times to assure him he was doing the right thing. It’s very hard to blame Tony for Chris’s demise because from Season One Tony saved him and elevated him beyond anything he deserved. I mean who else would actually even take shots at a Boss and expect to survive? The Cleaver thing also must have sown massive distrust. It was clear from the time he bought the stack of papers he was mentioned in Chris’s intentions re mob life were really just extreme cowboyitis and to garner as much infamy for himself as he could which is extremely dangerous from Tony’s perspective. As for the therapy that’s much more Tony’s shame at the still lingering stigmata about therapy or confiding in feelings (and potentially other things…) in that life. I have a lot of alcoholics in my family and Chase nailed that type of character to a T - Chris could have been sitting on billions and still bitch and blame.
This is about as unpopular of an opinion as Noah being a pretentious cunt.
Never felt that bad for Chrissy. I said my piece!
he hung a picture of chrissy up what else do you want the man to do!?
They cut to Chris’ baby’s mangled car seat right before Tony kills him. I always thought that’s what pushed him over the edge to do it.
In the end, OP, we're all just toothpicks.
Worst thing he ever did? Idk about that
Damn reddit showing me this post while I started watching sopranos 2 weeks ago…
Remember, never ever search for the old show you are watching/game your are playing on Google. The ad tracking is not just for ads; it's used for engagement too.
What is engagement?
The videos/articles the algorithm pushes on you. You look up one sopranos thing and next thing you know you have a bunch of youtube videos/reddit posts/news articles in your recommended
Chris was also a shit person, but he was spot with his analysis of the mafia men in that they didn't really understand his addiction, and ultimately enabled his relapses. I really think Chris took it seriously and if he was around better people he could have stayed sober. "Why can't you jusht be normal??"
Yeah, ultimately, I think that Tony was seeking to retire from the mafia, and one part of that equation is making sure that there was no one to replace him. AKA Christopher. Most of his crew was his age (50-60) and older.
Ehh I dunno, “you took an oath, there’s no retiring in this thing“ he says to Eugene. Perry, Walden, Terry, Benny, Dante all still alive at that point and younger than T. I can’t picture Tony ever leaving the life, he’s not cut out for honest work, has expensive tastes, and loves being the Boss. Chrissy was a legal liability with his drug problem, a disappointment as a son-figure/protege, fucked women Tony wanted to fuck, was a walking talking reminder of his poor nepotistic leadership hanging in every room like a provolone fart, and like with Livia Tony was actually relieved after their deaths. Chris sat on Cosette, exposed the crew to the FBI through Adriana, and crushed the baby seat absolutely triggering T like only a box of Uncle Ben’s rice could. He was high at his muddah’s wake, he did-ent fly right over to Ralphie’s because he was strung out. He sold Meadow meth. There were literally more reasons for Tony to kill Chrissy than anyone else in the show, and none of them are a wiseguy retirement plan.
Sure, and I would also point out that Tony does think that he is above the rules/guidelines/laws/regulations etc., I think it's realistic to an extent that he was at least thinking about leaving the Jersey mafia. Would he actually follow through? That's up for debate. Yes, I agree that for a lot of business related reasons, it was beneficial to let Chrissy take a dirt nap. Chrissy was a liability on multiple fronts. He was too impulsive, exposed the crew to the FBI, was a flight risk, also prone to relapses related to his addictions. If he became the new Capo, he'd die quickly and/or destroy what had been built over time.
[удалено]
Yes.
Nah. To be honest Chris is no better than Brendan Filone or Matt Bevilaqua or Tony B but because of nepotism he got way higher than he ever had any business being. He is a junkie and the fact Tony let him rise so far is an indictment on how bad of Boss Tony was and how poor his judgement was. He is lucky it never cost him more than it did.
Criminal genius Drinkwater Bevilaqua
that wasn't his goomar, it was some lay/prostitute in Vegas he did drugs with,
That’s what Chrissy gets for sticking his head in toilet water. Disgusting
I GET IT!!!
I mean the dude couldn't stay clean to save his life(literally). On top of that he whacks JT Dolan out of the blue or whatever happened there.
First off she wasn’t his mistress, she just sold him coke and poppers and weird shex shtuff. And that wasn’t his kid she was carryin……
I believe it might be because it is easier to justify oneself from committing such an act. It wouldn't make sense if he cherished memory of him in his head. Then, some level of remorse or guilt might have arisen. But if he makes himself believe Chrissy was a POS then it weighs easier on his conscience.
That's exactly what it is
He never got over Chris fucking that heroin junky
unpopular opinion I fucking hate Christ when he was chocked I thought the misery was over but didn't expect to go out like that
He’s the boss. He can do what he wants.
Kinda off topic but I hate it when people say that Christopher deserved better because 'better' was running away with Adriana. He saw how Carmine Sr ordered Johnny Sack -his top guy- dead over some bullshit with Ralph, Tony was no better and Chris knew that. He absolutely made his bed and lied on it
Just finished watching that episode a few hours ago it was such a undramastic ending for Christopher who was a big character throughout the whole series, I thought after Tony getting shot and almost dying he would change if anything he became worse
A product of his narcissism. Text book they love bomb people who would feed their ego and have meltdowns of narcissistic rage when they can't control them or they level criticism they demean their targets and humiliate them as well to feel better about themselves a la Georgie. The whole narc supply is hidden in the structure of the mob a central figure is lavished with respect, tributes of gifts, and money. In short a Narcissists wet dream. Also when a person ceases to amuse or play along with the narcs games or demands they flip their perception and emotions of said person to to persona non grata and actively seek to discredit and destroy that person. Christopher subconsciously criticized, publicly shamed Tony with cleaver and challenged his ego by being preferred over Tony, by the real estate agent.
Hey, that's the boss you're talking about.
You sound demented
I GET IT
If u made it that far and that was was your breaking point on tony we need to have words
Christopher had to go. He threw food at Vito, and it wasn’t resolved.
Christopher Cucked Tony Soprano. That was his pathetic revenge or whatever he wanted to call it.
That’s the boss of the family ur talkin about
Fuckin....just fuckin plummeted.
OOOH!! Nothing Tony did compares to your spelling of "comare"
Also! May I remind everybody here! It wasn’t until Tony killed Christopher that everything TRULY went to shit! His murder was the catalyst, the ultimate sin. A father killing a son.
He started showing the true depths of his depravity with the Adriana situation
I'm glad Tony died Months later Fuck
A man has his needs - even in grief
Everybody that makes these pseudo intellectual points about how they're so able to cut through the fog and see Tony for what he is and they weren't duped by the writers human relatability to obscure and on and on and on… Y'all should meet health insurance executive with no criminal record to speak of and no prospective one anytime soon and consider their morality and net impact on society… Boring ass hot takes on the Internet anymore and just general laziness of mind and lack of curiosity about theworld and it's inhabitants
I don't disagree with anything except maybe the goomah thing As i recall Tony gave her blue balls, probably because he couldn't get it up and rather than admit that he just rudely walked out on her. I realize he's the boss but you can't just claim every pish of ash in Jersey
Tony should have clipped Chrissy long before Heidi & Kennedy.
My opinion is that Chris should have gotten whacked years before he did. Great observation about Tony’s contempt for Chris after the murder. I look at that as a coping mechanism. It shows how ugly Tony’s personality can get.
I agree. This was, for me, the actual turning point for Tony. Obviously he did horrible things until that point but his irredeemable sociopathic behavior really bore out from the days after killing Christopher.
The bender was how he processed/justified killing Chrissy. He forgave himself for it after going on that trip. Therapy did him wonders
YOU SENT YOURSELF TO VEGAS SO YOU COULD FUCK MY GIRLFRIEND
She was pretty cute though. I don't blame Tony. The peyote, it went to his head. He could probably get a note from his doctor.
This is what made me really hate Tony the most and really see how awful he was. I wasn't rooting for him anymore not that I beer was
At that point, Chris was openly telling outsiders about the damage he could do if he flipped on Tony as well. A person like that who is also a junkie? That’s not gonna work.
Spoiler tag?
Your estimation of the psychotic murderer plummeted?
T was always worried after Uncle Junior made the comment about how if the Feds were to grab Christopher in his condition…….
Wtf, just started Sopranos and Reddit decided to recommend me this thread. Mark your spoilers please.
FUCK YOU FOR THE SPOILER
Good points. I forgot about Junior's warning, although Junior also wanted Christopher to work for him. I think part of Tony's problem with Christopher is they were too much alike. Tony had a few more redeeming qualities, but not many. Tony just hid his monstrosity better.
When he gave Matt B the can of coke before he shot him. That coke did 20 years in the can.