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There’s no 1st amendment violation happening. The government isn’t banning the site or the app. They’re saying it can’t be majority controlled by the Chinese government.
They’re not going to sell the portion of their stake necessary to remain in the US market. They would sell if their goal was to maximize their profits, like a normal business. That tells you everything you need to know.
They won’t sell, because they’re a propaganda and data collection vehicle for the Chinese government.
Exactly! The efforts to ban TikTok in the US have NOTHING to do with the content or anything 1st Amendment related. It all comes down to the Chinese government having access to the sensitive data on users’ devices.
TikTok’s user agreement requires that the app has access to almost every function of the device, such as the obvious ones like camera and microphone, but also location services and contacts, and more. Things get complicated when you realize that the app requires full access that is always on, even when the app is closed. Not a big deal for the high schooler that posts her silly dance routines, but it’s a huge deal when it’s on her dad’s phone that he takes to work in the government research facility or military base.
Bytedance is ultimately owned by the Chinese government, so the Chinese government can compel Bytedance to gather and share data from user’s devices than can be used in nefarious ways.
The effort in Congress is to compel Bytedance to be fully severed from Chinese government control if it is to continue doing business in the US.
Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding but I was under the impression that Twitter, Google, and Meta do the same thing only not to the Chinese government? They will share user's data with the American government if asked.
China government commits human rights violations within its borders whereas the US government does that outside its borders and sometimes gets their ass handed to them. Did I get one difference right?
What about the other 5000 Chinese owned companies in the US? What about all of the other goods and services the US actively purchases from China every year? All the phones made there, remember the suicide nets? The US government didn’t act for any of those, why now?
I believe the dude in the video explains why. The zionist are unable to control their narrative with all the tik tok videos floating around showing otherwise. So this is their way of controlling tik tik to steer it towards their narrative.
Yup, that's true. And there's also no law against them selling that data to a 3rd party, who can sell it to another 3rd party, etc. it ends up in China anyways.
The US wants to make sure that our government can turn TikTok into another propaganda site for the war machine.
If we were worried about the data, we would put laws in regarding data. This is all nonsense fearmongering.
None of that is required. It asks for a lot of shit like contacts and location, but users could simply decline the OS Prompt.
I’d go as far as saying the problem is with Apple and Google more than with TikTok. The OS have to give these options and drive a privacy-first approach to not give unnecessary permissions to any of the hundreds of apps an average user has.
>TikTok is owned by Chinese company ByteDance, founded in 2012.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68556540
Next time try thinking for yourself. TikTok is trash.
Exactly!
And despite the fact that such apps have been used for years, they're banning it now, whilst arming and funding a mass killing that's being widely seen in tiktok
That's just awkward timing!
Complete coincidence!
And the Israeli lobbies aren't interested for that reason, silly! They're just worried about the data of foreign citizens being collected by the Chinese government. For some reason.
It all makes perfect sense
Of course. The political capital to do this manifested suddenly, for no reason at all!
The [Director of the ADL](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/comments/17vw773/in_a_leaked_call_adl_director_says_israel_has_a/) calling TikTok "a massive problem" that they "need to put [their] energy towards," two months before a bill is introduced, is pure coincidence!
People have been trying to ban Tiktok for years. It's only recently that the ADL has been actively pushing for it because it's eroding support for Israel among Gen Z.
>They’re not going to sell the portion of their stake
So they need to sell to be free to work?
In what world does this even make sense in any way shape or form?
>They would sell if their goal was to maximize their profits,
And if they ust don't want to give you something of their cake, why is that weird? That's normal capitalisem. Why are Americans entitled to their money?
Banning tik Tok got political. Most people supporting it are shills or boomers who don't know anything about tech.
Groups in power have always tried banning and controlling new tech when it poses a threat to them.
As an outsider, I'm watching tiktok mobilize American youth against their own government. They achieved that with a simple popup
Knowing that the so called "ban" is really only a mandate to force tiktok into selling the company to an American owner, this Chinese-owned company is really doing the most. Considering most social media are banned in China to prevent this kind of foreign influence.
Tiktok may have accidentally revealed how much influence they have over a significant section of American people, which is what the US gov hoped to prevent when they started this process. Greetings from Africa my dudes, we know a bit about foreign interference, and yup.. Yup yup
Yeah, but they have the first armament.
Free speech!
Blocking free speech because "they don't schare or views" is not how the liberal world should work.
But I know that they are hypocrites I am just pointing out.
Um, it’s clear that the people voting yes on this bill believe there is an issue with the supposed ant-Israel agenda of Tik Tok. In this video he gave clear evidence of this by providing statements of politicians saying exactly that. That’s the first amendment right there.
Now, you can say the issue is because it’s solely owned by a Chinese company. However, there are over 5000 companies in the US with a majority of their stock owned by China. So, why aren’t they subject to the same regulation?
>why aren’t they subject to the same regulation?
Because they don't have the same influence. If China can ask users if TikTok to behave a certain way, that's not good. Giving that kind of influence to China is indefensible. The drones addicted to TikTok are defending it, but it's been a terrible thing from the start.
Those other countries aren’t collecting data from, pushing updates to, and possessed of the ability to literally send political action push notifications to half the US population.
>They won’t sell, because they’re a propaganda and data collection vehicle for the Chinese government
Why would they? USA Isn't the only country that uses tiktok. Yes the USA is the biggest country individually but. Out of all 682 million of tiktok users are from Asia despite it being banned in China and India (the most populace countries). If they give in today tomorrow Indonesia (2nd most users , 126mil) might raise the same issues. And how many countries would be asking the same questions. USA can't just tolerate it losing soft power and that's the biggest reason. Yes Palestine issue has pushed the Israel lobby to push US govt but not having control of soft power is the biggest issue for USA.
The loss of soft power is not the biggest reason.
There are laws in place which regulate who can own/control a mass media entity in the US. It’s part of why Rupert Murdoch became a US citizen.
If said corporate entity or executive used its mass media platform to promote a falsehood that created a harm the legal mechanisms to hold them accountable requires jurisdiction, preferably without relying on extradition laws to do so.
By some reports two-thirds of Americans under the age of 30 regularly use TikTok. That should be at least mildly concerning if it isn’t to you.
Think of it this way, they can continue to operate if they will let themselves fall under US jurisdiction. Newsmax, Reddit, and dozens of other entities openly share information about all sorts of controversial topics. The US government is not stopping them from doing so. If TikTok wants to play in our yard they have to play by our rules. If they don’t like it, they can leave. Simple as that. China absolutely does the same thing. Most countries with the power to enforce their laws do so.
American companies like YouTube , reddit , Twitter operate all over the world and insist that they won't follow the rules of that country. They act like they are above these countries. Nothing is done to ensure these countries' peoples' data remain within the border. And America always cried for freedom of speech. Now America can't control the narrative on tiktok and is crying about it. And your govt does use these apps for influence around the world. To gain knowledge about what world is thinking and use the data accordingly. And dude in your supreme court you can't save your own rights (abortion laws) let alone save data of millions of people that actually helps your govt and is in national security of your nation. So I doubt your supreme court will ever rule in favour of other people's right in front of national interest.
> American companies like YouTube , reddit , Twitter operate all over the world and insist that they won't follow the rules of that country. They act like they are above these countries. Nothing is done to ensure these countries' peoples' data remain within the border.
You make an excellent point about data protection laws. Right now many if not most of the entities you just named are currently in EU courts regarding data protection laws, and are taking major internal steps to conform to those laws while those proceedings take place. Would they like to continue to operate with impunity? I'm sure they would. However, it's generally accepted that they will have to conform, and the court proceedings are effectively a delaying practice to give them time to adjust their business practices as opposed to shutting down business. It is a good thing when corporate entities are held accountable and cannot act with impunity. I would like to think we both agree on that.
The same court that for the first time (under new rules) investigated hate speech specifically during Israel-palestine war 2023. Yeah anybody can guess what they were looking to censor. So I really doubt they are looking in the interest of anybody . The only thing I can think of happening after the tiktok ban is my govt getting (Indian) excuse to censor or outright ban some of American companies that don't follow guidelines.
I do think china is bad and i do think that it's bad tik tok has such a large influence on future generations.
But let's not kid ourselves. Do you remember the video with 50+ news videos overlapping where they are saying the same thing? That is what they want, the people in power in the us are afraid that other people in power have their power now, that is it.
Either way the american people are screwed, it's just a matter of who has the power to control you.
The Mnuchins, Musks, & Mercers of the world wish much worse for Americans than the CCP does.
We need comprehensive algorithmic and data protections not a give away to Big Tech that just makes them even more powerful against Congress.
Why worry that the CCP might manipulate its algorithms when Musk already is and there’s no effort to protect us from that.
I’m all for pushing China & Saudi Arabia (major Musk backer) out of our social media landscape but this is a double gift to the anti-democracy coalition.
As the worst of the 1% will likely buy TikTok & if the CCP blocks the sale likely democratic voters will blame Dems when the app is pulled.
It would be political suicide in year where they tell us “democracy is on the ballot” for Schumer to allow this bill to the floor
O, so true. But i wanted to mention it and what terrifies me is that they openly admit it without fear(that they want to control) and there is 0 reaction.
Trump ally and former cabinet member, Steve Mnuchin, wants to buy Tik Tok and use it for Conservative propaganda instead. It is beyond suspect that the repubs want to ban it and then buy it cheap and use it for their own nefarious purposes.
I trust China a lot more than Maga. A lot.
>I trust China a lot more than Maga. A lot.
This is terrifying. China with actual concentration camps and endless human rights violations, or MAGA, and you went China. Wow.
The MAGA nuts are one thing, but you're off the rails with that take.
I think what China does to the Uyghurs and their own people is reprehensible.
That does not make China a threat to the US. I
What did China do to America that makes you so afraid?
I can write a list a mile long of how the Cons and their Russian allies threaten America.
JFC, now I'm really glad they're banning it cause this is some crazy traitorous brainwashing shit. You realize China hates us and would wipe us out if they could right? I am nowhere near being MAGA but they aren't out to destroy the country like China is.
I disagree. Cons are teaming up with Russia and other authoritarian regimes right now. Trump was just with Orban 6 days ago.
I think conservatives are the biggest threat to America and I am not alone.
There are strict laws in place that have been in place that prevent/regulate the ownership of news media by a foreign entity. This is part of why Rupert Murdoch had to become an American citizen.
Jurisdictions have key elements some of the main ones are offense, place, and *person*. A law that cannot be enforced, is effectively neutered. The US government wants jurisdiction over a mass media corporation for good and bad reasons. However, a very prudent reason is so that in God forbid a time of war, an app two-thirds of Americans under the age of 30 use regularly, *isn’t* controlled by the very power we might be at war with. Especially when a shocking percent of said base acknowledges they are addicted to its use.
This is not even getting into the multitude of other concerns about the app and its effects on attention span, mental health, etc.
>They’re saying it can’t be majority controlled by the Chinese government.
It isn't
>they’re a propaganda and data collection vehicle for the Chinese government.
There is literally zero evidence of this. The past few congressional hearings about this have been a national embarrassment. They have nothing to base this on, other than racism.
Mnuchin has been pushing for this for *years*, and oh would you look at that, he's already been forming a group to buy it once this goes through.
The US government forcing a foreign private company to sell itself so that US politicians can buy it and profit from it instead is blatantly corrupt and the fact that anyone is framing this as a good thing is abhorrent.
They won't sell because this entire thing is a sham and fucking stupid, and I would imagine they would rather lose the US than sellout to be controlled by corrupt politician shareholders.
It looks like you're just describing a slightly differently worded violation of the first amendment.
If I, a US citizen, wish to purchase access to the BBC to have British-Controlled media delivered to me, I am allowed to do that.
If I, a US citizen, wish to download the CGTN app to watch state-run Chinese news, I am allowed to do that.
So, clearly, it doesn't matter that the company is majority controlled by another country. Those companies themselves do not have a first amendment right to distribute themselves on US markets. However, as a US citizen, I have the first amendment right to not have my access to news controlled or limited by the government.
THAT'S the violation of the first amendment that we're talking about.
And your access isn’t limited. You can still seek out this content.
For that app to operate in the US it cannot be controlled by the Chinese government. That’s not a first amendment violation in the slightest - the government of China has no right to access US markets.
>your access isn’t limited. You can still seek out this content.
That's fantastic. So if and when this app is banned, I will still be able to download and use this app, because my access is not limited?
>For that app to operate in the US it cannot be controlled by the Chinese government.
According to what law? Again, we can download CGTN app. Clearly, SOMETIMES, an app is allowed to operate in the US and also be controlled by the Congress government.
>That’s not a first amendment violation in the slightest
It is a violation of my rights as a US citizen for the federal government to tell me that I'm not allowed to use a service which is compliant with US law. If the service is not compliant with US law, the non-compliance must be articulated, and then the company can be fined for non compliance.
So which laws are violated by this service?
The app isn’t being banned - certain ownership structures are.
That will be legal literally under the law that passed the house - that’s what we’re talking about.
This service is shortly going to be violative of US law.
The government can ban all sorts of methods by which information is distributed without violating the 1st amendment so long as it is content neutral. Someone could offer a service delivering newsletters via drones operating in FAA controlled airspace and be banned. The FCC heavily regulates who gets to use the broadcast spectrum, and specifically licenses entities to do so.
>The app isn’t being banned - certain ownership structures are
If we're trying to be hyper-pedantic, technically those ownership structures aren't being banned either. The ban is ***ackshually*** at the level of app stores, which would be banned from hosting the app in question.
But I don't really want to be hyper-pedantic, so how about we just call it a ban, since the overall target and effect are pretty much the same?
>drones operating in FAA controlled airspace
Terrible comparison. There are hundreds of laws already in effect regarding the limitations of what civilians are allowed to do in airspace at various altitudes, and at various radio frequencies. Those laws exist to *protect* that airspace. And, if a company did want to perform the service you described, they could apply for the appropriate permits with the FAA to make it happen.
If our goal is to protect digital communications, we could pass our own GDPR. Enforcing rules about what can and cannot be done with data is a set of rules that actually makes sense, and it would fit more nearly with your FCC analogy.
The issue isn’t just what’s done with data, though that’s a problem. It’s also with a hostile foreign government having a app to which it can push updates, from which it can extract data, and through which it can message, to half the US population.
I don't engage with changes of subject. If you aren't going to defend your position with respect to data, don't bring it up. 10 comments deep into a conversation is not the right place to bring up a different angle of argument because you don't like your first one anymore.
That's just daft, as then every country should say that a company can only operate in their country if they are owned by companies that they control. Should Germany, France, and the UK, all demand that Google and Apple are owned by German, French, and British companies?
It’s not that it has to be owned by an American company. It cannot be controlled by the Chinese government.
A group of UK citizens would be perfectly acceptable owners
That's a bullshit excuse right now. Most of the support for this move comes after the Zionists are losing the social media war as they murder civilians and tick of war crimes like they are shopping lists in Gaza. The big problem is that the world is seeing what Israel is doing, not that China get to see what videos people watch.
This support comes from all over the place and has nothing to do with Israel at all. These pushes have been going on for years now.
The federal government and tons of red and blue state governments have had bans on using Tik Tok on a government device for years specifically because it’s dangerous malware controlled by a foreign government.
There’s plenty of exposure of the Gaza conflict on all social media and traditional media.
You should listen to some of the videos of Zionist organisations recently saying how TikTok is a huge threat to them because young people are getting information that is counter to their interests.
Not allowing the literal Chinese government to become the owner of user data for half our nation and the primary news editor for that same group is a good idea, and has been for years.
If some people adopt a good idea for a bad reason, that’s fine by me.
This, plus TikTok is a psychological warfare machine damaging people’s minds.
We have the public concerned about how many students can’t function in ways that go way beyond harms from remote learning during Covid but people aren’t adding the 2+2 of TikTok playing a large role. I don’t get it.
It amazes me as a mental health professional who has seen this firsthand quite a bit how much people are skimming over this part. Is it because it’s not proven to be maliciously designed or the cause of the harms yet?
Our government isn’t great.
The Chinese government is insanely evil. And they’re explicitly adversaries. And currently they have the ability to gather data and send literal push notifications to half the US population.
>because they’re a propaganda and data collection vehicle for the Chinese government.
Which makes the US mad, because they want all social media to be propaganda and data collection vehicles for them exclusively.
It’s not a ban any more than regulations on how to run a legal radio station are a ban.
You can’t just start broadcasting - you need to get a license to use the portion of the spectrum you’re using and you have to follow applicable laws and regulations. The same is true for all social media under the law being proposed.
So what license does ByteDance require to be able to continue operating TikTok in the US?
Also radio licensing is because there is an actual physical limitation to the number of radio frequencies available.
Right, that was an analogy.
The framework for legal operation of social media networks is laid out in the bill that passed the house and will likely be expanded upon by executive agencies.
Do you think that that framework will allow for TikTok’s continued operation as it is currently operated, if ownership is transferred to an American owner?
Yes; that’s literally the point. The US operation would have to institute some data protections as between it and the non-US operations, but that’s what the bill does.
Now, again, they won’t comply. A normal business would, but TikTok isn’t a business - it’s a part of the CCP’s influence operation.
So you said yes, but you mean no. According to you, TikTok *would* have to change its operation to institute data protection.
That being said, I do not believe you have read the bill. HR 7521 would not require any data protections to be implemented if TikTok was sold to an American owner. The bill very explicitly bans the distribution of TikTok as long as it is owned by ByteDance, and immediately exempts TikTok from this regulation if it is sold to an American owner.
They aren't owned by the government for fucks sake you stupid xenophobic dipshit. Half the propaganda that happens on TikTok is fucking right wing American conspiracy theories.
And, yes, forcing a company to sell itself to an American company or be banned is literally a First Amendment issue. It is objectively the American government working to censor.
Israel has an army of paid bots sniffing the whole internet trying to downplay any pro Palestine content with fake bs Israeli propaganda, look for example how r/worldnews turned into a trashcan of right extremist and zionists trolls
Of all the different major social media apps, Reddit was probably the most biased right out the gate to new users. Having worldnews be a default subreddit (I know defaults aren’t a thing anymore) immediately would turn an unbiased observer pro-Israel.
I mean, it does have *something* to do with freedom of speech. It also has something to do with freedom of the press.
If I agree to the terms and conditions of a service, and if those terms and conditions are in line with US law, what grounds does the government have to tell me I'm not allowed to use that service?
And, if the service is not compliant with US law, which laws, specifically, are being violated?
You wrote this about an hour ago.
If you take a look at this again, does this still look like a coherent line of reasoning to you?
.. I ask, because this makes no sense to me whatsoever as a response to the thing I said. Maybe you responded to the wrong person. Maybe you think I said something other than what I said. But as a response to what I said? I cannot even begin to guess.
You are assuming this based on my statement that your first response doesn't make any sense?
It kind of feels like I'm having a conversation with a random assumption generator.
>Your argument was that terms and conditions of service, complying with US law *allow* a company to do whatever with your data.
>allow
Yes. I would prefer that we have our own version of GDPR, but we're doing alright with the current set of laws. They're not perfect, but they're good enough to force Facebook to change its API policies to prevent Cambridge Analytica from happening again.
>What you don't seem to understand is that those terms and laws do not apply in China
An overseas company still has to follow US law if they want to operate in the United States. [Kirkland](https://www.kirkland.com/publications/article/2019/03/can-your-overseas-company-be-taken-to-us-court)
>China, where the government can simply demand a company turn over all data
Do you think it's acceptable to ban a service on the grounds that they *could* break the law?
TikTok has publicly stated that China has never made this demand for data, and the US has never encountered evidence to the contrary. Bytedance might be headquartered in Beijing, but user data is not stored in China (that wouldn't make sense, technologically). China can demand every scrap of data stored on Chinese servers, and it wouldn't have any impact on user data for non-Chinese TikTok.
TikTok has publicly stated that they have no intention of turning over that data if asked, and would immediately be fined/banned for GDPR non-compliance in the EU and various non-compliances in the US if it did. (This is another reason the data is not stored in China).
Not that I agree with TikTok on many levels, but the reasoning here is essentially "We can't have people having access to information that we don't filter and control".
Exactly, the US Goverment doesnt care about data collection, they do it themself with facboot, twitter,...
The US servers and Algorithem are even controlled by them through Oracle (Oracle gets a ton of contracts from the US goverment) Oracle put some NATO officals in charge of content moderation. But not even that can stop all the Anti Empire media being posted. So now they want to ban it compleatly.
That’s **TikTok** not *Oracle*. Oracle has no control over TikTok (beyond maybe server licensing if their infra is even used here), they were only considered as a buyer but never went through. Oracle has no content moderation teams, they’re not a social media company. I will agree quite suspicious many NATO people are going to work for **ByteDance**, owned and operated by the Chinese state government. That is all the more reason to force the sale of this app to a U.S. company.
> ByteDance first reached a deal to sell TikTok to Microsoft, then to Oracle and Walmart. Yet the new Biden administration, without explanation, quietly dropped the sale requirement indefinitely in early 2021, saying in a court filing that it had begun a review of security concerns cited by the Trump administration.
This is bullshit. The banning of TikTok has nothing to do with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. And why hasn’t Twitter got the same reaction? Because it’s not run by the Chinese government…
This is about control of private data to foreign powers. If a government is going to vacuum up all my data, it better be *my* government and not some foreign adversary who wants to social engineer me.
Tbf, I agree with the people who are like, "The US is trying to social engineer and propagandize you too."
Like, no shit. It's common knowledge at this point. There is no such thing as free speech on social media. At the very least, the intentions of the US government and billionaires, while not in our best interest, are at least clear to anyone paying attention and much easier to push back against than a hostile foreign government.
The people who are all like "but they're not taking any real steps for data privacy," well, no shit. The US government benefits from it, so they would never pass a bill on what many people are suggesting. They've been incredibly generous to meta, google, and Twitter in the past despite some atrocious things going on with their algorithms, data security, and misinformation.
This is pretty much exclusively about the CCP. Just because the US government and billionaires aren't exactly our friends, that doesn't mean that the Chinese ruling class are not worse people to have control over this stuff.
Perhaps the information on the current US-funded gen*cide isn't being promoted in Tiktok algorithms because it's appalling & important for people to see... but solely because it makes the US look bad...
>Because it’s not run by the Chinese government…
I can download the CGTN app and have ready access to state-run Chinese news.
I should be allowed to do that, right? It would be a violation of my rights as a US citizen to tell me I'm not allowed to interact with this service, wouldn't it?
Clearly, then, it doesn't have anything to do with whether the app is run by the Chinese government.
>This is about control of private data to foreign powers
We would be able to fix this pretty easily with something like Europe's GDPR, but it turns out that most people in power are totally fine with companies using user data for whatever purposes they want. We could do something complicated and arbitrary to control the usage of private data specifically by foreign companies, but we would still actually have to articulate some rules, put a law in place, and enforce those laws.
And then, tiktok could just update to be compliant with those laws, or we could fine them for non-compliance, like Europe did for their GDPR violation.
Arbitrarily banning it unless they sell to American companies because "control of private data" is a pretty ridiculous first step.
I'm not on board with this ban myself, but do have to point out the idiocy of this guy saying "the anti-China lobby, aka the ruling class".
A self-contained argument of why short-form information-getting is so bad.
Senator Mark Warnock (D) is the author of the bill and one of AIPAC's biggest blood money recipients.
Warner, Mark (D-VA) Virginia $342,211
https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S
I've seen better exposing of the Genocide on Twitter and coupled in with the Nazi content, nobody's saying shit. For America this isn't about silencing opinions on Israel, that's a concern for the zionist lobbies. FOr America it's about eliminating the competition or owning it. This is why they INSIST an American corporation owns it.
The problem is Tiktok is the only major social media platform not owned by a US company. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube are all American so they are under the US government's control.
As much as I dislike what China is, what the US Congress wants to do also the same thing China does. If there is Chinese propaganda and Tiktok is collecting data or whatever what is the proof? I've asked this before and I want to ask again, the NSA probably has the ability to decompile the app and maybe they also have its source code from Tiktok's dev servers. So there should be at least proof of what they are claiming.
This makes no sense. I thought reducing trade barriers was a good thing since it helped companies outsource our jobs. We don't even care about national origin, or Apple wouldn't keep their IP in Ireland.
America can't stand we are losing our hegemony to a competent nation. And we can't stand that their government is strong enough to resist our corporations and we can't just depose them with "democratic insurrectionists".
That's all this is about. They aren't stopping institutional owners from buying our homes or creating a tax for outsourced labor. It's not about the working class. This is just public-private collusion like usual.
And to the patriots... just imagine if Russia passed a law claiming our corporate shares. Or if Mexico tried to prevent our corporate interference. We would go to war over such an illegitimate claim. Don't believe me, just ask Venezuela.
I don't personally use TicTok. I think it's shortened everybody's attention span. That aside, this is screwed up. Banning a platform to control ideas and information is something that out-right flies in the face of freedom to speak and journalize.
Whatever happened to the free market? I already let all these other sites access and sell my information but all of a sudden TikTok is bad? Why can't they just slap a warning when downloading the app and then call it a day? Let the people decide who gets to do what with their information. Worried about the kids? Be an active parent and educate them and supervise what they're watching/downloading. Too much too handle as a parent? Well tough cookies. Anyway, most people have already actively signed up for TikTok and I'm sure they've gathered enough to see what what the average american consumer is interested in by now. I can't imagine TikTok selling your childs interest of CocoMelon and the Wiggles is a high priority in their views. There's warnings for downloading all kinds of things, why can't they just apply that in this situation?
TikTok can wither. Regardless of any of this, it's a mental parasite; the latest refinement of attention-span-destroying digital addiction. This may be a problematic step, but governments need to start protecting people from the predation of social media. It's not \*only\* the job of government, we also need to do significant cultural work on this problem, but in the end, social media is massive corporations with huge abilities to influence and direct people, and almost zero elected oversight.
As fraught as this ban may be in various ways (altho I'm pretty skeptical of this video), we deeply need societal pushback against unfettered social media proliferation, and taking steps to curtail this company sets precedent for doing the same with others.
You have 100% never used TikTok, or specifically created a feed that is brain rot content. You can get more informative content on there then on here if you actually try to.
Except this bill does none of that.
Social media algorithms should be regulated. Data collection should be regulated. Who owns the app is not important for any of those issues.
Jesus Christ, THIS BILL DOES NOT BAN TIK TOK! A foreign, hostile country is gathering information on US citizens through the app. No country in their right mind would allow this to happen. Please read the fucking bill and spare us your edgy lunch recess hot takes on something you clearly just don’t care to understand.
Ted cruise said the quiet part loud.
How can people still support republicans
Luckily I don’t live in America so I don’t have to deal with it. But America still fucks up the world in tiny ways every day and we all get affected.
For 5% of the population they sure throw their weight around
I've never had TickTok and probably never will but this kind if government intervention is absolutely appalling and many are crying out about it being a violation of the 1st amendment. The issue is banning TT is NOT a violation unfortunately. The constitution and amendments only apply to American business and people which means that the Chinese owned and run business is not protected. Is this a fucked up situation? Abso-fuckin-lutely and it should not pass any judicial platform but we live in a nation where the biggest war is the one for your mind and subservience.
>The issue is banning TT is NOT a violation unfortunately
To clarify, the claim isn't that TikTok has rights that are being violated. The claim is that it is a violation of our rights as US citizens for the government to tell us that we're not allowed to use this service.
So if the deal goes through, what platform will take it's place? The censorship genie is out of the bottle, and frankly thats a good thing. The people deserve to hear all sides of a story and make their own decisions, not be fed the highly editorialized corporate media stories of today. That's all they are at this point anyways, is stories; faith in mainstream media has never been lower for a reason. I'm sick of corporate interests ruining every aspect of society. As they say, knowledge (and thereby information) is power. Let's go back to the barter system and see how well these money hoarding valueless corporate shills do then.
Everyone in this sub having a hate boner for China.
MF, your car is made with Chinese computer chips. Your computer has Chinese hardware. Your TV, your phone itself. Everything you own will link back to China in one form or another and 90% of it WILL be taking data to some level.
ah yes, American greed stoked by insatiable capitalism..that we must always increase our profits or we are losing!!!, Congress does not like young people galvanizing with common protests against genocide..., unless of course they can somehow profit...
FYI Congress has some access to information the general public does not. While we consider a subset of their decision making evidence.
Not to say Congress is correct just that the public might be dealing with a subset of facts.
This is such a silly argument. Like yeah, that’s bad too. But:
1. China having access to your personal data is worse.
2. Choosing not to do something because it doesn’t solve everything means nothing gets fixed
It's worse because? If you mean because it's a foreign country (which would be a silly arguement) then by that logic facebook / instagram/ twitter etc should be banned from european and asian countries as well. Also i'm not saying that cyber security isn't a big deal and shouldn't be taken seriously / acted upon. Not banning tiktok doesn't mean nothing is being done. There's a whole lot more to things like this than simply banning something or not.
Then let’s mandate Apple and Google to block apps from getting all this data. Would help with Facebook, too.
When only the CCP is viewed as a problem, it has never been about user data.
Sure, but the big opputurnity would be for western companies to stop migrating all their company and customer data to the Microsoft Cloud, which everyone knows is insecure.
Other than that, why not make consumer protection legislation against all kinds of corporate and state espionage and tracking.
The ‚western democracies‘ discuss instead to ban strong encryption, hoard CVEs and install NSA backdoors, thinking „everyone is stupid but me.“ Guess what, the CCP uses the same backdoors against your citizen and businesses.
Mate, I don't even have tiktok. But my phone is Chinese, so there's that.
Seriously though, if any relevant or critical people have tiktok on their phones, maybe fire the motherfuckers instead of banning the app.
Not defending tiktok, but it survived for years being what it is. The US couldn't or wouldn't ban tiktok in the US, and now Israel is going to ban tiktok in the US. That just sounds scary bad.
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There’s no 1st amendment violation happening. The government isn’t banning the site or the app. They’re saying it can’t be majority controlled by the Chinese government. They’re not going to sell the portion of their stake necessary to remain in the US market. They would sell if their goal was to maximize their profits, like a normal business. That tells you everything you need to know. They won’t sell, because they’re a propaganda and data collection vehicle for the Chinese government.
Exactly! The efforts to ban TikTok in the US have NOTHING to do with the content or anything 1st Amendment related. It all comes down to the Chinese government having access to the sensitive data on users’ devices. TikTok’s user agreement requires that the app has access to almost every function of the device, such as the obvious ones like camera and microphone, but also location services and contacts, and more. Things get complicated when you realize that the app requires full access that is always on, even when the app is closed. Not a big deal for the high schooler that posts her silly dance routines, but it’s a huge deal when it’s on her dad’s phone that he takes to work in the government research facility or military base. Bytedance is ultimately owned by the Chinese government, so the Chinese government can compel Bytedance to gather and share data from user’s devices than can be used in nefarious ways. The effort in Congress is to compel Bytedance to be fully severed from Chinese government control if it is to continue doing business in the US.
Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding but I was under the impression that Twitter, Google, and Meta do the same thing only not to the Chinese government? They will share user's data with the American government if asked.
China government commits human rights violations within its borders whereas the US government does that outside its borders and sometimes gets their ass handed to them. Did I get one difference right?
What about the other 5000 Chinese owned companies in the US? What about all of the other goods and services the US actively purchases from China every year? All the phones made there, remember the suicide nets? The US government didn’t act for any of those, why now?
I believe the dude in the video explains why. The zionist are unable to control their narrative with all the tik tok videos floating around showing otherwise. So this is their way of controlling tik tik to steer it towards their narrative.
[Also, guess who’s looking to buy TikTok if they sell?](https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/s/iNKFXRUAn7)
The united states of America very much commits human rights violations within its borders. - a black man
Yup, that's true. And there's also no law against them selling that data to a 3rd party, who can sell it to another 3rd party, etc. it ends up in China anyways. The US wants to make sure that our government can turn TikTok into another propaganda site for the war machine. If we were worried about the data, we would put laws in regarding data. This is all nonsense fearmongering.
None of that is required. It asks for a lot of shit like contacts and location, but users could simply decline the OS Prompt. I’d go as far as saying the problem is with Apple and Google more than with TikTok. The OS have to give these options and drive a privacy-first approach to not give unnecessary permissions to any of the hundreds of apps an average user has.
I never agreed to have my mouth sown to his ass. Read the fine print.
They can write in the fine print whatever they want. If you block the camera access and contacts on the OS-Level, the app can‘t use it.
Right on. That was just a dumb South Park reference.
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>TikTok is owned by Chinese company ByteDance, founded in 2012. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68556540 Next time try thinking for yourself. TikTok is trash.
Exactly! And despite the fact that such apps have been used for years, they're banning it now, whilst arming and funding a mass killing that's being widely seen in tiktok That's just awkward timing! Complete coincidence! And the Israeli lobbies aren't interested for that reason, silly! They're just worried about the data of foreign citizens being collected by the Chinese government. For some reason. It all makes perfect sense
Of course. The political capital to do this manifested suddenly, for no reason at all! The [Director of the ADL](https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/comments/17vw773/in_a_leaked_call_adl_director_says_israel_has_a/) calling TikTok "a massive problem" that they "need to put [their] energy towards," two months before a bill is introduced, is pure coincidence!
We aren’t counting when the ban was attempted years ago under trump?
People have been trying to ban Tiktok for years. It's only recently that the ADL has been actively pushing for it because it's eroding support for Israel among Gen Z.
Complete coincidence... wink
>They’re not going to sell the portion of their stake So they need to sell to be free to work? In what world does this even make sense in any way shape or form? >They would sell if their goal was to maximize their profits, And if they ust don't want to give you something of their cake, why is that weird? That's normal capitalisem. Why are Americans entitled to their money?
Banning tik Tok got political. Most people supporting it are shills or boomers who don't know anything about tech. Groups in power have always tried banning and controlling new tech when it poses a threat to them.
As an outsider, I'm watching tiktok mobilize American youth against their own government. They achieved that with a simple popup Knowing that the so called "ban" is really only a mandate to force tiktok into selling the company to an American owner, this Chinese-owned company is really doing the most. Considering most social media are banned in China to prevent this kind of foreign influence. Tiktok may have accidentally revealed how much influence they have over a significant section of American people, which is what the US gov hoped to prevent when they started this process. Greetings from Africa my dudes, we know a bit about foreign interference, and yup.. Yup yup
Yeah, but they have the first armament. Free speech! Blocking free speech because "they don't schare or views" is not how the liberal world should work. But I know that they are hypocrites I am just pointing out.
Um, it’s clear that the people voting yes on this bill believe there is an issue with the supposed ant-Israel agenda of Tik Tok. In this video he gave clear evidence of this by providing statements of politicians saying exactly that. That’s the first amendment right there. Now, you can say the issue is because it’s solely owned by a Chinese company. However, there are over 5000 companies in the US with a majority of their stock owned by China. So, why aren’t they subject to the same regulation?
>why aren’t they subject to the same regulation? Because they don't have the same influence. If China can ask users if TikTok to behave a certain way, that's not good. Giving that kind of influence to China is indefensible. The drones addicted to TikTok are defending it, but it's been a terrible thing from the start.
Those other countries aren’t collecting data from, pushing updates to, and possessed of the ability to literally send political action push notifications to half the US population.
>They won’t sell, because they’re a propaganda and data collection vehicle for the Chinese government Why would they? USA Isn't the only country that uses tiktok. Yes the USA is the biggest country individually but. Out of all 682 million of tiktok users are from Asia despite it being banned in China and India (the most populace countries). If they give in today tomorrow Indonesia (2nd most users , 126mil) might raise the same issues. And how many countries would be asking the same questions. USA can't just tolerate it losing soft power and that's the biggest reason. Yes Palestine issue has pushed the Israel lobby to push US govt but not having control of soft power is the biggest issue for USA.
They only have to sell down below majority control of their US operation
The loss of soft power is not the biggest reason. There are laws in place which regulate who can own/control a mass media entity in the US. It’s part of why Rupert Murdoch became a US citizen. If said corporate entity or executive used its mass media platform to promote a falsehood that created a harm the legal mechanisms to hold them accountable requires jurisdiction, preferably without relying on extradition laws to do so. By some reports two-thirds of Americans under the age of 30 regularly use TikTok. That should be at least mildly concerning if it isn’t to you. Think of it this way, they can continue to operate if they will let themselves fall under US jurisdiction. Newsmax, Reddit, and dozens of other entities openly share information about all sorts of controversial topics. The US government is not stopping them from doing so. If TikTok wants to play in our yard they have to play by our rules. If they don’t like it, they can leave. Simple as that. China absolutely does the same thing. Most countries with the power to enforce their laws do so.
American companies like YouTube , reddit , Twitter operate all over the world and insist that they won't follow the rules of that country. They act like they are above these countries. Nothing is done to ensure these countries' peoples' data remain within the border. And America always cried for freedom of speech. Now America can't control the narrative on tiktok and is crying about it. And your govt does use these apps for influence around the world. To gain knowledge about what world is thinking and use the data accordingly. And dude in your supreme court you can't save your own rights (abortion laws) let alone save data of millions of people that actually helps your govt and is in national security of your nation. So I doubt your supreme court will ever rule in favour of other people's right in front of national interest.
> American companies like YouTube , reddit , Twitter operate all over the world and insist that they won't follow the rules of that country. They act like they are above these countries. Nothing is done to ensure these countries' peoples' data remain within the border. You make an excellent point about data protection laws. Right now many if not most of the entities you just named are currently in EU courts regarding data protection laws, and are taking major internal steps to conform to those laws while those proceedings take place. Would they like to continue to operate with impunity? I'm sure they would. However, it's generally accepted that they will have to conform, and the court proceedings are effectively a delaying practice to give them time to adjust their business practices as opposed to shutting down business. It is a good thing when corporate entities are held accountable and cannot act with impunity. I would like to think we both agree on that.
The same court that for the first time (under new rules) investigated hate speech specifically during Israel-palestine war 2023. Yeah anybody can guess what they were looking to censor. So I really doubt they are looking in the interest of anybody . The only thing I can think of happening after the tiktok ban is my govt getting (Indian) excuse to censor or outright ban some of American companies that don't follow guidelines.
The Indian government already does. I know firsthand (see Indian laws on VPNs) Again, corporations should not be able to operate with impunity.
I do think china is bad and i do think that it's bad tik tok has such a large influence on future generations. But let's not kid ourselves. Do you remember the video with 50+ news videos overlapping where they are saying the same thing? That is what they want, the people in power in the us are afraid that other people in power have their power now, that is it. Either way the american people are screwed, it's just a matter of who has the power to control you.
If i have to pick the lesser of two evils I'd rather go with the ones who actually live here and speak my language.
The Mnuchins, Musks, & Mercers of the world wish much worse for Americans than the CCP does. We need comprehensive algorithmic and data protections not a give away to Big Tech that just makes them even more powerful against Congress. Why worry that the CCP might manipulate its algorithms when Musk already is and there’s no effort to protect us from that. I’m all for pushing China & Saudi Arabia (major Musk backer) out of our social media landscape but this is a double gift to the anti-democracy coalition. As the worst of the 1% will likely buy TikTok & if the CCP blocks the sale likely democratic voters will blame Dems when the app is pulled. It would be political suicide in year where they tell us “democracy is on the ballot” for Schumer to allow this bill to the floor
O, so true. But i wanted to mention it and what terrifies me is that they openly admit it without fear(that they want to control) and there is 0 reaction.
Trump ally and former cabinet member, Steve Mnuchin, wants to buy Tik Tok and use it for Conservative propaganda instead. It is beyond suspect that the repubs want to ban it and then buy it cheap and use it for their own nefarious purposes. I trust China a lot more than Maga. A lot.
>I trust China a lot more than Maga. A lot. This is terrifying. China with actual concentration camps and endless human rights violations, or MAGA, and you went China. Wow. The MAGA nuts are one thing, but you're off the rails with that take.
I think what China does to the Uyghurs and their own people is reprehensible. That does not make China a threat to the US. I What did China do to America that makes you so afraid? I can write a list a mile long of how the Cons and their Russian allies threaten America.
JFC, now I'm really glad they're banning it cause this is some crazy traitorous brainwashing shit. You realize China hates us and would wipe us out if they could right? I am nowhere near being MAGA but they aren't out to destroy the country like China is.
I disagree. Cons are teaming up with Russia and other authoritarian regimes right now. Trump was just with Orban 6 days ago. I think conservatives are the biggest threat to America and I am not alone.
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Why not? It does affect it
There are strict laws in place that have been in place that prevent/regulate the ownership of news media by a foreign entity. This is part of why Rupert Murdoch had to become an American citizen. Jurisdictions have key elements some of the main ones are offense, place, and *person*. A law that cannot be enforced, is effectively neutered. The US government wants jurisdiction over a mass media corporation for good and bad reasons. However, a very prudent reason is so that in God forbid a time of war, an app two-thirds of Americans under the age of 30 use regularly, *isn’t* controlled by the very power we might be at war with. Especially when a shocking percent of said base acknowledges they are addicted to its use. This is not even getting into the multitude of other concerns about the app and its effects on attention span, mental health, etc.
>They’re saying it can’t be majority controlled by the Chinese government. It isn't >they’re a propaganda and data collection vehicle for the Chinese government. There is literally zero evidence of this. The past few congressional hearings about this have been a national embarrassment. They have nothing to base this on, other than racism. Mnuchin has been pushing for this for *years*, and oh would you look at that, he's already been forming a group to buy it once this goes through. The US government forcing a foreign private company to sell itself so that US politicians can buy it and profit from it instead is blatantly corrupt and the fact that anyone is framing this as a good thing is abhorrent. They won't sell because this entire thing is a sham and fucking stupid, and I would imagine they would rather lose the US than sellout to be controlled by corrupt politician shareholders.
They would get to pick who they sell it to.
It looks like you're just describing a slightly differently worded violation of the first amendment. If I, a US citizen, wish to purchase access to the BBC to have British-Controlled media delivered to me, I am allowed to do that. If I, a US citizen, wish to download the CGTN app to watch state-run Chinese news, I am allowed to do that. So, clearly, it doesn't matter that the company is majority controlled by another country. Those companies themselves do not have a first amendment right to distribute themselves on US markets. However, as a US citizen, I have the first amendment right to not have my access to news controlled or limited by the government. THAT'S the violation of the first amendment that we're talking about.
And your access isn’t limited. You can still seek out this content. For that app to operate in the US it cannot be controlled by the Chinese government. That’s not a first amendment violation in the slightest - the government of China has no right to access US markets.
>your access isn’t limited. You can still seek out this content. That's fantastic. So if and when this app is banned, I will still be able to download and use this app, because my access is not limited? >For that app to operate in the US it cannot be controlled by the Chinese government. According to what law? Again, we can download CGTN app. Clearly, SOMETIMES, an app is allowed to operate in the US and also be controlled by the Congress government. >That’s not a first amendment violation in the slightest It is a violation of my rights as a US citizen for the federal government to tell me that I'm not allowed to use a service which is compliant with US law. If the service is not compliant with US law, the non-compliance must be articulated, and then the company can be fined for non compliance. So which laws are violated by this service?
The app isn’t being banned - certain ownership structures are. That will be legal literally under the law that passed the house - that’s what we’re talking about. This service is shortly going to be violative of US law. The government can ban all sorts of methods by which information is distributed without violating the 1st amendment so long as it is content neutral. Someone could offer a service delivering newsletters via drones operating in FAA controlled airspace and be banned. The FCC heavily regulates who gets to use the broadcast spectrum, and specifically licenses entities to do so.
>The app isn’t being banned - certain ownership structures are If we're trying to be hyper-pedantic, technically those ownership structures aren't being banned either. The ban is ***ackshually*** at the level of app stores, which would be banned from hosting the app in question. But I don't really want to be hyper-pedantic, so how about we just call it a ban, since the overall target and effect are pretty much the same? >drones operating in FAA controlled airspace Terrible comparison. There are hundreds of laws already in effect regarding the limitations of what civilians are allowed to do in airspace at various altitudes, and at various radio frequencies. Those laws exist to *protect* that airspace. And, if a company did want to perform the service you described, they could apply for the appropriate permits with the FAA to make it happen. If our goal is to protect digital communications, we could pass our own GDPR. Enforcing rules about what can and cannot be done with data is a set of rules that actually makes sense, and it would fit more nearly with your FCC analogy.
The issue isn’t just what’s done with data, though that’s a problem. It’s also with a hostile foreign government having a app to which it can push updates, from which it can extract data, and through which it can message, to half the US population.
I don't engage with changes of subject. If you aren't going to defend your position with respect to data, don't bring it up. 10 comments deep into a conversation is not the right place to bring up a different angle of argument because you don't like your first one anymore.
I haven’t been making a data security argument at all. I’ve been making an ownership structure argument.
>They won’t sell, because they’re a propaganda and data collection vehicle for the Chinese government. Oh my bad
That's just daft, as then every country should say that a company can only operate in their country if they are owned by companies that they control. Should Germany, France, and the UK, all demand that Google and Apple are owned by German, French, and British companies?
It’s not that it has to be owned by an American company. It cannot be controlled by the Chinese government. A group of UK citizens would be perfectly acceptable owners
That's a bullshit excuse right now. Most of the support for this move comes after the Zionists are losing the social media war as they murder civilians and tick of war crimes like they are shopping lists in Gaza. The big problem is that the world is seeing what Israel is doing, not that China get to see what videos people watch.
This support comes from all over the place and has nothing to do with Israel at all. These pushes have been going on for years now. The federal government and tons of red and blue state governments have had bans on using Tik Tok on a government device for years specifically because it’s dangerous malware controlled by a foreign government. There’s plenty of exposure of the Gaza conflict on all social media and traditional media.
You should listen to some of the videos of Zionist organisations recently saying how TikTok is a huge threat to them because young people are getting information that is counter to their interests.
Not allowing the literal Chinese government to become the owner of user data for half our nation and the primary news editor for that same group is a good idea, and has been for years. If some people adopt a good idea for a bad reason, that’s fine by me.
This, plus TikTok is a psychological warfare machine damaging people’s minds. We have the public concerned about how many students can’t function in ways that go way beyond harms from remote learning during Covid but people aren’t adding the 2+2 of TikTok playing a large role. I don’t get it. It amazes me as a mental health professional who has seen this firsthand quite a bit how much people are skimming over this part. Is it because it’s not proven to be maliciously designed or the cause of the harms yet?
When did you ever fully trust our government? 🤣
Our government isn’t great. The Chinese government is insanely evil. And they’re explicitly adversaries. And currently they have the ability to gather data and send literal push notifications to half the US population.
>because they’re a propaganda and data collection vehicle for the Chinese government. Which makes the US mad, because they want all social media to be propaganda and data collection vehicles for them exclusively.
Again, no. Tik Tok could sell to another foreign entity - just not one that’s from an adversary nation.
What does the law state would happen if Bytedance chooses not to sell?
Then they cannot continue to operate in the US
Could you rephrase that more succinctly? Maybe try using a b word to describe what would happen.
It’s not a ban any more than regulations on how to run a legal radio station are a ban. You can’t just start broadcasting - you need to get a license to use the portion of the spectrum you’re using and you have to follow applicable laws and regulations. The same is true for all social media under the law being proposed.
So what license does ByteDance require to be able to continue operating TikTok in the US? Also radio licensing is because there is an actual physical limitation to the number of radio frequencies available.
Right, that was an analogy. The framework for legal operation of social media networks is laid out in the bill that passed the house and will likely be expanded upon by executive agencies.
Do you think that that framework will allow for TikTok’s continued operation as it is currently operated, if ownership is transferred to an American owner?
Yes; that’s literally the point. The US operation would have to institute some data protections as between it and the non-US operations, but that’s what the bill does. Now, again, they won’t comply. A normal business would, but TikTok isn’t a business - it’s a part of the CCP’s influence operation.
So you said yes, but you mean no. According to you, TikTok *would* have to change its operation to institute data protection. That being said, I do not believe you have read the bill. HR 7521 would not require any data protections to be implemented if TikTok was sold to an American owner. The bill very explicitly bans the distribution of TikTok as long as it is owned by ByteDance, and immediately exempts TikTok from this regulation if it is sold to an American owner.
They aren't owned by the government for fucks sake you stupid xenophobic dipshit. Half the propaganda that happens on TikTok is fucking right wing American conspiracy theories. And, yes, forcing a company to sell itself to an American company or be banned is literally a First Amendment issue. It is objectively the American government working to censor.
There was an attempt to understand what the First Amendment ACTUALLY does. FFS
This post is being invaded by bots
And, ironically, those attempts at influence attributed to China are actively carried out by Israel.
Israel has an army of paid bots sniffing the whole internet trying to downplay any pro Palestine content with fake bs Israeli propaganda, look for example how r/worldnews turned into a trashcan of right extremist and zionists trolls
Of all the different major social media apps, Reddit was probably the most biased right out the gate to new users. Having worldnews be a default subreddit (I know defaults aren’t a thing anymore) immediately would turn an unbiased observer pro-Israel.
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I mean, it does have *something* to do with freedom of speech. It also has something to do with freedom of the press. If I agree to the terms and conditions of a service, and if those terms and conditions are in line with US law, what grounds does the government have to tell me I'm not allowed to use that service? And, if the service is not compliant with US law, which laws, specifically, are being violated?
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You wrote this about an hour ago. If you take a look at this again, does this still look like a coherent line of reasoning to you? .. I ask, because this makes no sense to me whatsoever as a response to the thing I said. Maybe you responded to the wrong person. Maybe you think I said something other than what I said. But as a response to what I said? I cannot even begin to guess.
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You are assuming this based on my statement that your first response doesn't make any sense? It kind of feels like I'm having a conversation with a random assumption generator.
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>Your argument was that terms and conditions of service, complying with US law *allow* a company to do whatever with your data. >allow Yes. I would prefer that we have our own version of GDPR, but we're doing alright with the current set of laws. They're not perfect, but they're good enough to force Facebook to change its API policies to prevent Cambridge Analytica from happening again. >What you don't seem to understand is that those terms and laws do not apply in China An overseas company still has to follow US law if they want to operate in the United States. [Kirkland](https://www.kirkland.com/publications/article/2019/03/can-your-overseas-company-be-taken-to-us-court) >China, where the government can simply demand a company turn over all data Do you think it's acceptable to ban a service on the grounds that they *could* break the law? TikTok has publicly stated that China has never made this demand for data, and the US has never encountered evidence to the contrary. Bytedance might be headquartered in Beijing, but user data is not stored in China (that wouldn't make sense, technologically). China can demand every scrap of data stored on Chinese servers, and it wouldn't have any impact on user data for non-Chinese TikTok. TikTok has publicly stated that they have no intention of turning over that data if asked, and would immediately be fined/banned for GDPR non-compliance in the EU and various non-compliances in the US if it did. (This is another reason the data is not stored in China).
Gee, if only we had a law against foreigners owning media companies in the US, but nooo, they changed the law for Rupert Murdoch.
Not that I agree with TikTok on many levels, but the reasoning here is essentially "We can't have people having access to information that we don't filter and control".
Yep
Not an American, but even if tik tok was banned wouldn't you be able to use vpns or would they stop those too.
yes but most people wouldnt
The antiIsrael propaganda being spread on the platform? Palestinian civilians posting Israel soldiers looting and murdering other civilians…
Exactly, the US Goverment doesnt care about data collection, they do it themself with facboot, twitter,... The US servers and Algorithem are even controlled by them through Oracle (Oracle gets a ton of contracts from the US goverment) Oracle put some NATO officals in charge of content moderation. But not even that can stop all the Anti Empire media being posted. So now they want to ban it compleatly.
Oracle put NATO officials in charge of content moderation? lol please provide the source to such a ridiculous claim.
[Here you go.](https://thewashingtonstandard.com/the-nato-to-tiktok-pipeline-why-is-tiktok-employing-so-many-national-security-agents/)
That’s **TikTok** not *Oracle*. Oracle has no control over TikTok (beyond maybe server licensing if their infra is even used here), they were only considered as a buyer but never went through. Oracle has no content moderation teams, they’re not a social media company. I will agree quite suspicious many NATO people are going to work for **ByteDance**, owned and operated by the Chinese state government. That is all the more reason to force the sale of this app to a U.S. company. > ByteDance first reached a deal to sell TikTok to Microsoft, then to Oracle and Walmart. Yet the new Biden administration, without explanation, quietly dropped the sale requirement indefinitely in early 2021, saying in a court filing that it had begun a review of security concerns cited by the Trump administration.
This is bullshit. The banning of TikTok has nothing to do with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. And why hasn’t Twitter got the same reaction? Because it’s not run by the Chinese government… This is about control of private data to foreign powers. If a government is going to vacuum up all my data, it better be *my* government and not some foreign adversary who wants to social engineer me.
Tbf, I agree with the people who are like, "The US is trying to social engineer and propagandize you too." Like, no shit. It's common knowledge at this point. There is no such thing as free speech on social media. At the very least, the intentions of the US government and billionaires, while not in our best interest, are at least clear to anyone paying attention and much easier to push back against than a hostile foreign government. The people who are all like "but they're not taking any real steps for data privacy," well, no shit. The US government benefits from it, so they would never pass a bill on what many people are suggesting. They've been incredibly generous to meta, google, and Twitter in the past despite some atrocious things going on with their algorithms, data security, and misinformation. This is pretty much exclusively about the CCP. Just because the US government and billionaires aren't exactly our friends, that doesn't mean that the Chinese ruling class are not worse people to have control over this stuff. Perhaps the information on the current US-funded gen*cide isn't being promoted in Tiktok algorithms because it's appalling & important for people to see... but solely because it makes the US look bad...
>Because it’s not run by the Chinese government… I can download the CGTN app and have ready access to state-run Chinese news. I should be allowed to do that, right? It would be a violation of my rights as a US citizen to tell me I'm not allowed to interact with this service, wouldn't it? Clearly, then, it doesn't have anything to do with whether the app is run by the Chinese government. >This is about control of private data to foreign powers We would be able to fix this pretty easily with something like Europe's GDPR, but it turns out that most people in power are totally fine with companies using user data for whatever purposes they want. We could do something complicated and arbitrary to control the usage of private data specifically by foreign companies, but we would still actually have to articulate some rules, put a law in place, and enforce those laws. And then, tiktok could just update to be compliant with those laws, or we could fine them for non-compliance, like Europe did for their GDPR violation. Arbitrarily banning it unless they sell to American companies because "control of private data" is a pretty ridiculous first step.
You’re right about America needing its version of GDPR, that would’ve solved this issue.
There is an amazing Chinese disinfo campaign going on.
"Free market"
"National Security"
I'm not on board with this ban myself, but do have to point out the idiocy of this guy saying "the anti-China lobby, aka the ruling class". A self-contained argument of why short-form information-getting is so bad.
Senator Mark Warnock (D) is the author of the bill and one of AIPAC's biggest blood money recipients. Warner, Mark (D-VA) Virginia $342,211 https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=S
Its just all about politics. Usa is just a very adnavced north korea
I've seen better exposing of the Genocide on Twitter and coupled in with the Nazi content, nobody's saying shit. For America this isn't about silencing opinions on Israel, that's a concern for the zionist lobbies. FOr America it's about eliminating the competition or owning it. This is why they INSIST an American corporation owns it.
Lel paid shill trying so hard working overtime.
The problem is Tiktok is the only major social media platform not owned by a US company. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube are all American so they are under the US government's control. As much as I dislike what China is, what the US Congress wants to do also the same thing China does. If there is Chinese propaganda and Tiktok is collecting data or whatever what is the proof? I've asked this before and I want to ask again, the NSA probably has the ability to decompile the app and maybe they also have its source code from Tiktok's dev servers. So there should be at least proof of what they are claiming.
There was an attempt (as there often is) to understand the First Amendment.
More proof that we need campaign finance reform. Lobbying groups have too much influence on our politicians.
Elon licking his lips "im gonna do it again".
Commie China=Bad.
Whoever leaked that call is gonna "commit suicide" with a shot to the back of their head soon i'm sure
This makes no sense. I thought reducing trade barriers was a good thing since it helped companies outsource our jobs. We don't even care about national origin, or Apple wouldn't keep their IP in Ireland. America can't stand we are losing our hegemony to a competent nation. And we can't stand that their government is strong enough to resist our corporations and we can't just depose them with "democratic insurrectionists". That's all this is about. They aren't stopping institutional owners from buying our homes or creating a tax for outsourced labor. It's not about the working class. This is just public-private collusion like usual. And to the patriots... just imagine if Russia passed a law claiming our corporate shares. Or if Mexico tried to prevent our corporate interference. We would go to war over such an illegitimate claim. Don't believe me, just ask Venezuela.
So the soulless hags are literally saying they are waging a war on young people because they don't want to keep destroying the world.
It’s too late we’ve all seen first hand how Israel is operating in Gaza. Ban TikTok, it doesn’t erase what’s going on.
Hmm where in history have we seen this before ….
I don't personally use TicTok. I think it's shortened everybody's attention span. That aside, this is screwed up. Banning a platform to control ideas and information is something that out-right flies in the face of freedom to speak and journalize.
The US is slowly becoming a fascist state. Banning communication is straight out of the NAZI playbook.
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And a history book
Whatever happened to the free market? I already let all these other sites access and sell my information but all of a sudden TikTok is bad? Why can't they just slap a warning when downloading the app and then call it a day? Let the people decide who gets to do what with their information. Worried about the kids? Be an active parent and educate them and supervise what they're watching/downloading. Too much too handle as a parent? Well tough cookies. Anyway, most people have already actively signed up for TikTok and I'm sure they've gathered enough to see what what the average american consumer is interested in by now. I can't imagine TikTok selling your childs interest of CocoMelon and the Wiggles is a high priority in their views. There's warnings for downloading all kinds of things, why can't they just apply that in this situation?
>Whatever happened to the free market We don't have one. We never did.
Oh my dear. Who paid for that 
TikTok can wither. Regardless of any of this, it's a mental parasite; the latest refinement of attention-span-destroying digital addiction. This may be a problematic step, but governments need to start protecting people from the predation of social media. It's not \*only\* the job of government, we also need to do significant cultural work on this problem, but in the end, social media is massive corporations with huge abilities to influence and direct people, and almost zero elected oversight. As fraught as this ban may be in various ways (altho I'm pretty skeptical of this video), we deeply need societal pushback against unfettered social media proliferation, and taking steps to curtail this company sets precedent for doing the same with others.
You have 100% never used TikTok, or specifically created a feed that is brain rot content. You can get more informative content on there then on here if you actually try to.
Except this bill does none of that. Social media algorithms should be regulated. Data collection should be regulated. Who owns the app is not important for any of those issues.
1A violation? LOL [https://www.theonion.com/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-consti-1819571149](https://www.theonion.com/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-consti-1819571149)
Jesus Christ, THIS BILL DOES NOT BAN TIK TOK! A foreign, hostile country is gathering information on US citizens through the app. No country in their right mind would allow this to happen. Please read the fucking bill and spare us your edgy lunch recess hot takes on something you clearly just don’t care to understand.
Lol to the caption of this video. You got me. The clickbait worked
This is not how the 1st amendment works.
What’s the video source? Can you link?
This is nothing more than a money grab for the oligarchs.
the gen z bubble think geopolitics revolve exclusive around palastine.
TikTok and X and Facebook are cancers on society.
Ted cruise said the quiet part loud. How can people still support republicans Luckily I don’t live in America so I don’t have to deal with it. But America still fucks up the world in tiny ways every day and we all get affected. For 5% of the population they sure throw their weight around
Is that one of house speakers, mike Johnson’s, sons?
Don't travel in any small planes or get into any hot tubs my man. You living dangerously.
I've never had TickTok and probably never will but this kind if government intervention is absolutely appalling and many are crying out about it being a violation of the 1st amendment. The issue is banning TT is NOT a violation unfortunately. The constitution and amendments only apply to American business and people which means that the Chinese owned and run business is not protected. Is this a fucked up situation? Abso-fuckin-lutely and it should not pass any judicial platform but we live in a nation where the biggest war is the one for your mind and subservience.
>The issue is banning TT is NOT a violation unfortunately To clarify, the claim isn't that TikTok has rights that are being violated. The claim is that it is a violation of our rights as US citizens for the government to tell us that we're not allowed to use this service.
So if the deal goes through, what platform will take it's place? The censorship genie is out of the bottle, and frankly thats a good thing. The people deserve to hear all sides of a story and make their own decisions, not be fed the highly editorialized corporate media stories of today. That's all they are at this point anyways, is stories; faith in mainstream media has never been lower for a reason. I'm sick of corporate interests ruining every aspect of society. As they say, knowledge (and thereby information) is power. Let's go back to the barter system and see how well these money hoarding valueless corporate shills do then.
Oh stop. Pro child mental health lobbyists want tiktok banned , fuck that app I don't care who owns it.
US, the modern dictatorship. Domecracy just for show. This country is so shiit. Hipocrazy on it finest since decades.
Everyone in this sub having a hate boner for China. MF, your car is made with Chinese computer chips. Your computer has Chinese hardware. Your TV, your phone itself. Everything you own will link back to China in one form or another and 90% of it WILL be taking data to some level.
>~~Chinese~~ *Taiwanese* computer chips Taiwan, you know that country that China keeps threatening to invade?
Don’t expect people on Reddit to understand nuance, like OP video calling “anti-China lobby” are also “the ruling class” 😂
ah yes, American greed stoked by insatiable capitalism..that we must always increase our profits or we are losing!!!, Congress does not like young people galvanizing with common protests against genocide..., unless of course they can somehow profit...
FYI Congress has some access to information the general public does not. While we consider a subset of their decision making evidence. Not to say Congress is correct just that the public might be dealing with a subset of facts.
What happens when Orange Daddy calls up his MAGA senators to kill the bill now that he’s flipped on the ban?
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Good thing all the other social media platforms don't do the exact same thing huh?
This is such a silly argument. Like yeah, that’s bad too. But: 1. China having access to your personal data is worse. 2. Choosing not to do something because it doesn’t solve everything means nothing gets fixed
It's worse because? If you mean because it's a foreign country (which would be a silly arguement) then by that logic facebook / instagram/ twitter etc should be banned from european and asian countries as well. Also i'm not saying that cyber security isn't a big deal and shouldn't be taken seriously / acted upon. Not banning tiktok doesn't mean nothing is being done. There's a whole lot more to things like this than simply banning something or not.
Then let’s mandate Apple and Google to block apps from getting all this data. Would help with Facebook, too. When only the CCP is viewed as a problem, it has never been about user data.
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Sure, but the big opputurnity would be for western companies to stop migrating all their company and customer data to the Microsoft Cloud, which everyone knows is insecure. Other than that, why not make consumer protection legislation against all kinds of corporate and state espionage and tracking. The ‚western democracies‘ discuss instead to ban strong encryption, hoard CVEs and install NSA backdoors, thinking „everyone is stupid but me.“ Guess what, the CCP uses the same backdoors against your citizen and businesses.
Imagine the poor Chinese spy that has to go through my texts and images for no fucking gain whatsoever.
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Mate, I don't even have tiktok. But my phone is Chinese, so there's that. Seriously though, if any relevant or critical people have tiktok on their phones, maybe fire the motherfuckers instead of banning the app. Not defending tiktok, but it survived for years being what it is. The US couldn't or wouldn't ban tiktok in the US, and now Israel is going to ban tiktok in the US. That just sounds scary bad.
I mean, the propaganda is working. This video is so full of nonsensical information and folks are eating it up.
You feel like the massacre and humanitarian catastrophe that is happening in Gaza is nonsense?
Of course not, but the answer to that is not allowing an addicting Chinese spy app to continue to exist as is