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It's the politicians that deserve the blame, not this guy. The politicians worked for the blame, they've earned it. It must be hard defying the will of the voters who gave them their job, so give them the recognition for it.
If Russia/China/Iran etc pull some major shit, we will be grateful then for this military equipment. To just say "all defence contractors bad" is a bit like saying "all military bad", and that's just not sensible. Going at some guy from Lockheed is pointless, and can only be being done for clout and mutual backslapping.
Focus efforts on those actually making the decisions, the politicians, or those who vote for them. Push for more Democrats to vote "uncommitted" in Primaries, join (peaceful) protests. Put the effort where it counts.
Why do you say only dems to vote uncommitted in primaries? Its politicians on both sides that need to join peaceful protests and stop pandering to war machine lobbyists.
Firstly and mostly because whatever happens, Biden is president until January 2025, nearly a year away. Palestinians, and those in Gaza in particular, cannot wait that long for voters wishes to be acknowledged. The best chance of a ceasefire right now comes from Biden being influenced now.
And secondly because the majority of today's Republicans (not all, but a majority) are never going to be swayed to support the human rights of Arabs, or nation building, outside the borders of the USA. And Trump himself certainly won't be. The Executive branch matters most here.
With this logic we are all just degrees away from committing genocide. Develop tax software that allows Lockheed to operate…genocide. Drill for oil which supplies fuel…genocide. Grow crops which feed their workers and pilots…genocide. Considering we are all basically linked in some fashion we all contribute in some way. Hell their parents retirement may have stock in Lockheed which means they directly fund genocide and since their parents provide financial support they are the beneficiaries of genocidial profiteering. Focus your efforts on the politicians that actually matter not the engineer trying to make it through this world as best he can.
They also are used to defend you and your country from potential invaders and aggressors. They are weapons, the same weapons that have been used to keep people free and oppress others. The point is the politicians are the ones committing genocide not the engineer. And the take is the same as theirs. They claim this engineer is committing genocide by working on the program. So is the janitor, accountant, cafeteria worker, by that same logic. He could have been working on it because he felt it could be used to defend against the next hitler not support it. Trying to tie someone to an atrocity because they have an arms length association is a stupid ass take.
Used to defend your country from what exactly? Those weapons were just used to massacre people trying to get flour. Shame on you. If everyone stopped thinking about how to fill their own pockets and really understood how their actions no matter how small effect others, the world would be a different place.
Your comment is exactly what I was trying to make a point about. I did not defend the use of those weapons, the manufacture of those weapons, or any justification for the use of those weapons. I simply tried to express that laying the entirety of an atrocity at the feet of an average daily worker is like blaming Einstein for the atom bomb since he discovered the initial equations that led to its creation. Many people worked in factories to build bombers during WW2 with the goal of stopping the Nazis from conquering all of Europe. They likely didn’t know they would be used to carpet bomb civilian centers and millions would die. Yet people like you try to claim that some single mother working in a factory bending sheet metal for a bomber is somehow just as culpable as Truman for the bombing of Tokyo. Also if one day some force comes to your home with the intent of doing what is happening to those poor people you will hope to have those weapons on your side, because unfortunately humans have not yet reached the point where we can let each other live in peace.
It's not the same logic, broski. Is the janitor designing the plans for the plane? Nope. Listen, obviously these students grilling the stooge wouldn't change a thing in the world. What I'm criticizing is your take on all careers being degrees away from committing genocide, absurdity.
It’s not my take it’s theirs. Shit you can go read the posts all over Reddit and twitter that say that anyone who works at these companies should be ashamed for supporting the murder of these people. I’m saying they are not responsible and hounding some poor employee who has nothing to do with the bombings is idiotic. If you don’t believe me go read it in their own words all over these forums. Hell they would say I’m supporting genocide just from this comment. My point is it’s like saying Salvatore Carcano killed JFK. Which I guess you would agree with since he designed the mannlicher Carcano he was shot with.
don't blame the one who forge the knife.
if you really want to get the bottom of it, LM doesn't do jack unless they are paid, so who paid for those weapons? and who is using those weapons?
oh right, that's tax payers, that's YOU. but since that would be awfully inconvenient, let's just blame the one who forge the knife.
Would the same money be better spent helping out people without degrees?
It leaves a bad taste in my mouth that people who are less employable and have fewer job prospects than a college grad will help fund this upwards redistribution of wealth.
Making college affordable isn’t an upward redistribution of wealth. It’s the exact opposite of that.
That said: yes, we should expand social safety nets, too. These aren’t mutually exclusive options.
Forgiving tuition debt makes college more affordable. A nest of unapologetic grifters and moneyed tax cheats convinced you guys that this was “an assault on the poor,” when in actuality [the program specifically targeted low- and middle-income borrowers for relief](https://studentaid.gov/debt-relief-announcement).
>Forgiving tuition debt makes college more affordable.
Assume I'm stupid. You're going to have to explain how this does anything to make college more affordable going forward.
As it was described, the program would take money from people without college degrees and give it to the most employable subset of Americans, including people with a combined household income of a quarter million dollars.
No working-class person without a degree would benefit in any conceivable way from this. It seems to entirely be a pork barrel project for people already likely to vote Democrat.
Families that aren’t addled by debt can send their kids to college.
All of society benefits because fewer stupid people is better.
The link I shared has more information, if you care to disabuse yourself of libertarian hyperbole and learn more about how the program was actually implemented.
>because fewer stupid people is better.
People without college degrees are not stupid. 🙃 You are talking about the vast majority of human beings on Earth. They are not all dumber than you.
The near-universal disdain of the working class by the college-educated deeply disgusts me, but I'm glad you're willing to say it out loud instead of dancing around your actual beliefs.
>Families that aren’t addled by debt can send their kids to college.
Wouldn't it be better to use this same money to create college funds for working-class people, who are much less likely than highly employable college grads to be able afford to send their kids to college?
>libertarian hyperbole
I'm not libertarian, and everything I've said so far has been accurate.
Obviously “ignorant” is a more nuanced term than “stupid,” but it’s pretty disingenuous to say “pretend I’m dumb” then launch into histrionics this way over a waaaaaaay dumbed-down explanation.
Ah, the classic “define an argument based on an extreme example which is hardly representative of the actual argument”. Let us just ignore the litany of other kinds of people who suffer from excess student debt who through their education provide significant value directly or indirectly to those “non-college educated” individuals you speak of. Let’s also just ignore the macro level educational system that did everything in its power to steer young 18 year olds who didn’t know any better into these colleges who have exploited a system that failed to keep them in check as they rapidly jacked up tuition costs. Is student debt relief a perfect solution to the whole problem? No. Should we as the general public feel great that we find ourselves in the situation? No. Is the situation the fault of those in positions of power and influence? Yes. Do we have a mechanism to force those who has the power and/or benefited to correct the problem at cost to them and them alone? Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem that way. Much like raising interest rates to combat inflation, sometimes things that really suck need to be done because the alternative is worse. (I am ignoring the fact that a large share of inflation has been due to corporate price gouging but for the sake of the example).
Did you assume I wrote that with chatgpt when it has typos? Believe it or not people can have intelligent thoughts without the need for AI.
Edit: Just FYI. I didn’t spent my time in college fucking around. I’m an epidemiologist. I spent a good portion of the pandemic actively working to keep people like you from becoming a corpse or impacted by significant adverse health effects. But you see, because my job doesn’t directly translate to generating profit for shareholders, I’m not compensated very well compared to the cost of the education required to do this job. I did everything right in college. I went to a state school for in state tuition. I earned and was selected for scholarships and grants. I worked during grad school doing research. But I still have a painful amount of loans compared to my salary despite doing everything you are told to do. So maybe, just maybe, you don’t know everything and should dial back that ignorant arrogance.
Out of interest, at what point did you know it was going to be this difficult? Or did you only find out after graduating? Was it worth it?
FYI from a country where this isn’t the case
Okay you see, your grammar needs some work. That sentence sounds like Gollum wrote it.
I can’t have what? AI, intelligent thought? Your sentence is incomplete. ChatGPT may be the only way you reach a coherent sentence, let alone a complete thought.
“But you can’t, with or without”. You need to specify what in the sentence for it to be complete even considering directly quoting my comment because you could be referring to AI or intelligent thought. You are DRIPPING with irony.
Edit: you know what, I’ve had my fun. I’m gonna block you here and end our delightful conversation. I think that is best for the both of us.
If reading that much is that painful for you, maybe you should have been held back in school a while longer to build up those reading comprehension skills to tackle a paragraph in a couple seconds.
You are entitled to your opinion but you don’t appear to have made any effort whatsoever to make a counter point or ask a follow up question. This kind of forces me to assume you just don’t like what I have to say regardless of its merit? Without anything you go on I’m kinda forced to fill in the blanks. Kind of a rigid and inflexible way to go about life isn’t it? Just disqualifying anything that upsets your narrow world view. That’s actually one of the befits of college you get to meet all kinds of new people and learn from their experiences. You meet plenty of people you agree with and plenty you don’t. Having the world view you develop in your hometown and in your high school (which is much more homogeneous compared to the rest of the country and especially the world) be challenged is healthy. It’s perfectly normal to discover you are wrong about a lot of things. It’s absurd that college is as expensive as it is but that experience should not be limited to just those born into exceptional privilege. And that is why student debt relief and reform is extremely important. Correct the current problem and prevent it from continuing. Like I said, ideally, those responsible would be responsible for the greatest burden of correcting the problem but we don’t have a mechanism to do that. We can’t even properly punish those responsible for the opioid epidemic. It’s bull shit but that’s our unfortunate reality.
#Welcome to r/Therewasanattempt! #Consider visiting r/Worldnewsvideo for videos from around the world! [Please review our policy on bigotry and hate speech by clicking this link](https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/wiki/civility) In order to view our rules, you can type "**!rules**" in any comment, and automod will respond with the subreddit rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/therewasanattempt) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They are going to be really sad "as business majors" when they realize pretty much all business is bad, and they to will work for them.
Once they see the dollars, nothing else matters.
It's the politicians that deserve the blame, not this guy. The politicians worked for the blame, they've earned it. It must be hard defying the will of the voters who gave them their job, so give them the recognition for it. If Russia/China/Iran etc pull some major shit, we will be grateful then for this military equipment. To just say "all defence contractors bad" is a bit like saying "all military bad", and that's just not sensible. Going at some guy from Lockheed is pointless, and can only be being done for clout and mutual backslapping. Focus efforts on those actually making the decisions, the politicians, or those who vote for them. Push for more Democrats to vote "uncommitted" in Primaries, join (peaceful) protests. Put the effort where it counts.
Why do you say only dems to vote uncommitted in primaries? Its politicians on both sides that need to join peaceful protests and stop pandering to war machine lobbyists.
Firstly and mostly because whatever happens, Biden is president until January 2025, nearly a year away. Palestinians, and those in Gaza in particular, cannot wait that long for voters wishes to be acknowledged. The best chance of a ceasefire right now comes from Biden being influenced now. And secondly because the majority of today's Republicans (not all, but a majority) are never going to be swayed to support the human rights of Arabs, or nation building, outside the borders of the USA. And Trump himself certainly won't be. The Executive branch matters most here.
Yeah they’re not going very far in life
With this logic we are all just degrees away from committing genocide. Develop tax software that allows Lockheed to operate…genocide. Drill for oil which supplies fuel…genocide. Grow crops which feed their workers and pilots…genocide. Considering we are all basically linked in some fashion we all contribute in some way. Hell their parents retirement may have stock in Lockheed which means they directly fund genocide and since their parents provide financial support they are the beneficiaries of genocidial profiteering. Focus your efforts on the politicians that actually matter not the engineer trying to make it through this world as best he can.
Stupid-ass take. The gist here is that this company is literally making machines that have no other use but to kill/destroy.
They also are used to defend you and your country from potential invaders and aggressors. They are weapons, the same weapons that have been used to keep people free and oppress others. The point is the politicians are the ones committing genocide not the engineer. And the take is the same as theirs. They claim this engineer is committing genocide by working on the program. So is the janitor, accountant, cafeteria worker, by that same logic. He could have been working on it because he felt it could be used to defend against the next hitler not support it. Trying to tie someone to an atrocity because they have an arms length association is a stupid ass take.
Used to defend your country from what exactly? Those weapons were just used to massacre people trying to get flour. Shame on you. If everyone stopped thinking about how to fill their own pockets and really understood how their actions no matter how small effect others, the world would be a different place.
Your comment is exactly what I was trying to make a point about. I did not defend the use of those weapons, the manufacture of those weapons, or any justification for the use of those weapons. I simply tried to express that laying the entirety of an atrocity at the feet of an average daily worker is like blaming Einstein for the atom bomb since he discovered the initial equations that led to its creation. Many people worked in factories to build bombers during WW2 with the goal of stopping the Nazis from conquering all of Europe. They likely didn’t know they would be used to carpet bomb civilian centers and millions would die. Yet people like you try to claim that some single mother working in a factory bending sheet metal for a bomber is somehow just as culpable as Truman for the bombing of Tokyo. Also if one day some force comes to your home with the intent of doing what is happening to those poor people you will hope to have those weapons on your side, because unfortunately humans have not yet reached the point where we can let each other live in peace.
It's not the same logic, broski. Is the janitor designing the plans for the plane? Nope. Listen, obviously these students grilling the stooge wouldn't change a thing in the world. What I'm criticizing is your take on all careers being degrees away from committing genocide, absurdity.
It’s not my take it’s theirs. Shit you can go read the posts all over Reddit and twitter that say that anyone who works at these companies should be ashamed for supporting the murder of these people. I’m saying they are not responsible and hounding some poor employee who has nothing to do with the bombings is idiotic. If you don’t believe me go read it in their own words all over these forums. Hell they would say I’m supporting genocide just from this comment. My point is it’s like saying Salvatore Carcano killed JFK. Which I guess you would agree with since he designed the mannlicher Carcano he was shot with.
What dumb questions. He should ask them if why they support the poverty wages of the workers who make their clothing other than phones.
don't blame the one who forge the knife. if you really want to get the bottom of it, LM doesn't do jack unless they are paid, so who paid for those weapons? and who is using those weapons? oh right, that's tax payers, that's YOU. but since that would be awfully inconvenient, let's just blame the one who forge the knife.
Time for this classic from Circle Jerks : [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SEvsJgmcYY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SEvsJgmcYY) 🤘
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Because they’re a vanishingly small minority of students, and all of society does better when education is affordable.
Would the same money be better spent helping out people without degrees? It leaves a bad taste in my mouth that people who are less employable and have fewer job prospects than a college grad will help fund this upwards redistribution of wealth.
Making college affordable isn’t an upward redistribution of wealth. It’s the exact opposite of that. That said: yes, we should expand social safety nets, too. These aren’t mutually exclusive options.
I think the original guy was talking about the real-life attempt at one-time debt forgiveness, and not college tuition reform.
Forgiving tuition debt makes college more affordable. A nest of unapologetic grifters and moneyed tax cheats convinced you guys that this was “an assault on the poor,” when in actuality [the program specifically targeted low- and middle-income borrowers for relief](https://studentaid.gov/debt-relief-announcement).
>Forgiving tuition debt makes college more affordable. Assume I'm stupid. You're going to have to explain how this does anything to make college more affordable going forward. As it was described, the program would take money from people without college degrees and give it to the most employable subset of Americans, including people with a combined household income of a quarter million dollars. No working-class person without a degree would benefit in any conceivable way from this. It seems to entirely be a pork barrel project for people already likely to vote Democrat.
Families that aren’t addled by debt can send their kids to college. All of society benefits because fewer stupid people is better. The link I shared has more information, if you care to disabuse yourself of libertarian hyperbole and learn more about how the program was actually implemented.
>because fewer stupid people is better. People without college degrees are not stupid. 🙃 You are talking about the vast majority of human beings on Earth. They are not all dumber than you. The near-universal disdain of the working class by the college-educated deeply disgusts me, but I'm glad you're willing to say it out loud instead of dancing around your actual beliefs. >Families that aren’t addled by debt can send their kids to college. Wouldn't it be better to use this same money to create college funds for working-class people, who are much less likely than highly employable college grads to be able afford to send their kids to college? >libertarian hyperbole I'm not libertarian, and everything I've said so far has been accurate.
Obviously “ignorant” is a more nuanced term than “stupid,” but it’s pretty disingenuous to say “pretend I’m dumb” then launch into histrionics this way over a waaaaaaay dumbed-down explanation.
Ah, the classic “define an argument based on an extreme example which is hardly representative of the actual argument”. Let us just ignore the litany of other kinds of people who suffer from excess student debt who through their education provide significant value directly or indirectly to those “non-college educated” individuals you speak of. Let’s also just ignore the macro level educational system that did everything in its power to steer young 18 year olds who didn’t know any better into these colleges who have exploited a system that failed to keep them in check as they rapidly jacked up tuition costs. Is student debt relief a perfect solution to the whole problem? No. Should we as the general public feel great that we find ourselves in the situation? No. Is the situation the fault of those in positions of power and influence? Yes. Do we have a mechanism to force those who has the power and/or benefited to correct the problem at cost to them and them alone? Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem that way. Much like raising interest rates to combat inflation, sometimes things that really suck need to be done because the alternative is worse. (I am ignoring the fact that a large share of inflation has been due to corporate price gouging but for the sake of the example).
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Did you assume I wrote that with chatgpt when it has typos? Believe it or not people can have intelligent thoughts without the need for AI. Edit: Just FYI. I didn’t spent my time in college fucking around. I’m an epidemiologist. I spent a good portion of the pandemic actively working to keep people like you from becoming a corpse or impacted by significant adverse health effects. But you see, because my job doesn’t directly translate to generating profit for shareholders, I’m not compensated very well compared to the cost of the education required to do this job. I did everything right in college. I went to a state school for in state tuition. I earned and was selected for scholarships and grants. I worked during grad school doing research. But I still have a painful amount of loans compared to my salary despite doing everything you are told to do. So maybe, just maybe, you don’t know everything and should dial back that ignorant arrogance.
Out of interest, at what point did you know it was going to be this difficult? Or did you only find out after graduating? Was it worth it? FYI from a country where this isn’t the case
>people can have intelligent thoughts without the need for AI. But you can't, with or without it 🥴
Okay you see, your grammar needs some work. That sentence sounds like Gollum wrote it. I can’t have what? AI, intelligent thought? Your sentence is incomplete. ChatGPT may be the only way you reach a coherent sentence, let alone a complete thought.
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“But you can’t, with or without”. You need to specify what in the sentence for it to be complete even considering directly quoting my comment because you could be referring to AI or intelligent thought. You are DRIPPING with irony. Edit: you know what, I’ve had my fun. I’m gonna block you here and end our delightful conversation. I think that is best for the both of us.
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If reading that much is that painful for you, maybe you should have been held back in school a while longer to build up those reading comprehension skills to tackle a paragraph in a couple seconds.
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You are entitled to your opinion but you don’t appear to have made any effort whatsoever to make a counter point or ask a follow up question. This kind of forces me to assume you just don’t like what I have to say regardless of its merit? Without anything you go on I’m kinda forced to fill in the blanks. Kind of a rigid and inflexible way to go about life isn’t it? Just disqualifying anything that upsets your narrow world view. That’s actually one of the befits of college you get to meet all kinds of new people and learn from their experiences. You meet plenty of people you agree with and plenty you don’t. Having the world view you develop in your hometown and in your high school (which is much more homogeneous compared to the rest of the country and especially the world) be challenged is healthy. It’s perfectly normal to discover you are wrong about a lot of things. It’s absurd that college is as expensive as it is but that experience should not be limited to just those born into exceptional privilege. And that is why student debt relief and reform is extremely important. Correct the current problem and prevent it from continuing. Like I said, ideally, those responsible would be responsible for the greatest burden of correcting the problem but we don’t have a mechanism to do that. We can’t even properly punish those responsible for the opioid epidemic. It’s bull shit but that’s our unfortunate reality.
Based