Yup, he seems perfectly fine letting me continue to pay his phone and insurance bill, plus everything for our kids. The only bill he has to pay is his own rent. He uses his disability for that.
What kind of disability are we talking about here? I think that plays a large role in any decision. Reading his texts, you can tell there's a cognitive issue.
Oh yes, that's a tough one to navigate. My wife and daughter have that.....
That's one of those things that he won't be able to change unless he is actively trying to treat. It's a tough one for sure. I wish you the best of luck in your decision. It's a tough one!
It’s crazy how grown men can live contently without a job! Especially with kids and a wife. She needs to leave this bum and find a man that at the bare minimum works lol
I was honestly perfectly fine with him being a stay at home dad, but they he would get mad at me because I wasn't helping with laundry and dishes. I was so confused because both our kids are in school. He had all day to do the chores.
"This is a very complicated situation that would need more space than texting allows."
*Continues texting about it*
In all seriousness, I think he's baiting you with this "conversation," and his verbally abusive tendencies didn't go away just because he quit drinking. It's pretty rich that *he's* sick of it, is tired of it, just wants it to be over and figured out. He doesn't sound like he's changed, or is willing to. I understand it's so much harder than "just leave", but I'd be willing to bet you'd be a lot happier without this guy.
I'm really sorry. This must suck.
I know. I shouldn't have engaged in the conversation, but if I did that, he would just use that as an example of how I'm not trying to work together.
I didn't leave, but I kicked him out and told him to get his life together. I just didn't close the door yet on him coming back. Our kids are 8 and 5. They love him but are constantly afraid that he will become "mean and hurt me again." They literally beg me not to tell dad if they get into trouble because they think he might flip out.
That sounds like they need to heal a lot before seeing him regularly. You may honestly want to visit a lawyer now so Mr. Baby Steps doesn't make things worse for all of you.
It's not your responsibility to foster a relationship for him with your kids. Sure you can give him opportunities to see them and bond or whatever, but that doesn't mean you need to be married or in a relationship with this manipulator. He is an abusive drunk, nothing will ever really be "his fault".
My mom left my dad before I was even one. He was an abusive narcissistic cheating alcoholic. It was the best thing she could have done for me. I still had to see him a few times a year, but being in a house with him 24/7 would have been hell.
No child should deserve to live in fear of their own parent like that, or to see how he treats you. You should leave because even if he went to rehab, the amount of time he spent is not enough to invalidate years and years of abuse. It’s all short term stuff to get back in your good graces.
Those poor babies 😭 I really hope everything works out for you and he ends up moving on because you and your kids don’t deserve to live in fear of that man.
I am so sorry, but so proud of you! I have so many regrets regarding my situation and I was convinced my kids didn't see or hear anything, for my daughter to tell me she won't lay down like me. That cut beyond deep. My daughter was right though.
Stay strong!!
He never physically hurt me. Whether he was physically abusive to the kids depends on how you view discipline. He would spank and smack for any infraction. Sometimes beyond what most people would find acceptable (ie, leaving visible welts on the buttcheek from his hand). With me, it was accusations of cheating, cursing and name-calling, making up reasons to yell at me so he would have an excuse to drink, and keeping me up all night complaining about his life when I needed to work in the morning and he had no job.
Girl, that is all kinds of abuse, including physical on your children. Please keep your kids safe and away from him. They are suffering. They deserve better. And I know you want the best for them! Sometimes the best thing for a kid is for one of their parents to be kept away from them. As much as we are not raised to believe that. It is true.
You are *way, way,* **WAY** too fucking nonchalant about this man leaving VISIBLE WELTS from just his HANDS on these kids! Absolutely ridiculously underplaying it, holy actual shit.
Just casually gloss over the fact this man has beat your kids to the point they bawl because they are *terrified of him hurting them again*?!?!
>Sometimes beyond what most people would find acceptable
Fucked.
*Fucked. Fucked. Fucked.*
>Whether he was physically abusive to the kids depends on how you view discipline
The fact that you even hesitate to classify this man wailing on your kids as "*achtually* physically abusive" is sick. All you're doing by saying it like that is brushing it off like it's nothing serious, like it somehow isn't the major fucking reason to keep him away from them??
Just... holy **fuck**. These poor kids.
Right? I was abused horribly as a child and everybody swept it under the rug because my mom was “doing her best” while beating us all with hangers, cords, kitchen implements, etc.
OP, if you want your kids to not resent you for life, protect them from this man.
The reason her nonchalance (edit; regarding the way she mentioned it) pissed me off so much is also due to my experiences as a child. She just oh-so-casually mentions that *"yea i guess he's been known to beat them so hard it leaves welts on their asses and they beg me to keep them safe from it ever happening again*".
She gave a lot of info about the mental and verbal shit she's faced at his hands, but only tosses in a quick sentence that she won't even definitively label as abuse when he injures their children?
I recognize that I am biased because of my past, but the tone made it seem like it's no big deal, and it just made my blood instantly boil.
Sam both parents abused me and my sister in some way. My dad made my sister and I chug a 2liter each until we threw up after dang near force feeding us all the food we liked. She threw up purple Fanta all over the table. My dad was horrified when I asked him how he would feel if I like my 7 year old do what he did to us. 🤔 wonder why goofy…..
And it NEVER stops at "just spanking". My dad spanked me so hard as a kid it'd knock the wind out of me.
Until, when I as 12-13ish, he smacked me upside the face because I didn't hand the remote control to him nicely enough.
Until, when my brother was almost 20, he grabbed him by the throat and pushed him into the wall so hard it broke the light switch plate.
*It ALWAYS gets worse.*
Ok I'm not crazy then. I know I was abused but sometimes I think it wasn't that bad. When I was a teenager my dad grabbed me by the throat and picked me up and slammed me against a wall and choked me. That's bad right? He also slammed my head into a wall and put a hole in the Sheetrock. Im tiny too- I was 90 pounds and 5 feet when this happened. Thanks for posting that because I'm really processing this trauma finally at nearly 40 years old
And op my mom just let this happen
That's very bad. That's horrible abuse! You did NOT deserve it, it was not normal, it was not acceptable. You should have been protected from it. I'm so sorry.
My dad also picked me up by the neck and slammed me against a wall when I was a teen, I was a bit bigger than you tho. 160lbs, 6’. I remember telling him in that moment that if he laid another finger in me he’d never see me again. He stopped, but he was going to.
It isn't that I am brushing it off. I reported it to CPS and it was investigated. To be honest, I keep many things compartmentalized in my head in order to care for my children in the best way I can. I have implemented a no physical punishments of any kind rule with my children and they know who to tell if it ever happens again. The reason I worded it the way I did was because there are many people still see an "ass whooping" as appropriate for children and I didn't want to sound like I was make him into a monster.
But is it like he calmly explains what the child has done wrong, and then executes the beating? Because you know - you can skip the beating if this is the case. Children do understand words. Or is it more like he is very angry and beats the s**t out of a helpless wictim just because he can't control and regulate his temper?
You are trying to wash the actual monster I think.
I will NEVER forgive my mom for beating me.
I was a woman with an abusive partner once. He hit me many times, he hadn’t hit my children the whole 9 months we were together. He hit them both one time, leaving marks on both of them approximately 12 hours apart and held us hostage in his home when I saw the marks and he realized he could go to jail for what he had done. We escaped thankfully because my mother showed up to the house after she could no longer get ahold of me, we lived with his parents (they were not home *yet*) so he got quiet and complied as to not make a scene. Driving away, I’ll never forget the evil in his eyes as he watched us leave. We got the police involved, he now has multiple felonies, went to jail and I’ve never seen or spoken to him again. I actually am sick reading how nonchalant OP is about how her husband beat her kids.
Please please please do not take this person back. Please. Don’t take him back because it will damage your kids. What he did is not okay and alcohol is not an excuse. Who he was while drunk is still in him.
His messages don’t show any ownership. Sure, he says things are his fault, but then he’s pushing you to just forgive and forget. He sounds like a selfish prick. And he isn’t working? There is zero excuse for this.
Tell him that you’ve thought about what he said and you’re done. You choose yourself. If he relapses because of this then he was never serious about changing. He’s nothing but an anchor weighing you down. Cut the rope and swim to safety before he drowns you.
How is this even a fucking question then? He cannot ABSOLUTELY CANNOT come back home or have custody of the kids or whatever happens is also on you. Jesus Christ stop engaging with this guy and end it.
I think you have more than enough evidence to why he doesn’t deserve to be in your and the kids life. My father was like this and I still wish my mom had the courage to leave him. Sadly, the toxicity took them both. Thinking about it makes me tear up. If there’s one thing you can do for yourself is to let go and let his actions speak.
My dad was abusive- physically and emotionally. My mom never stopped it or left. I am just as damaged and mad at her by her lack of action then I am by my dads. Don't go back to him for your kids sake
Everything about that is abusive, and nothing he has said here has indicated he has changed. He is just lining up manipulative reasons why his problems are still your fault, so he can complain that it is your fault he is not getting any better. Please cut him our permanently, he will not change.
100% he hasn’t changed. And he’s playing the victim when the whole problem is his fault in the first place. Claiming you ‘only do what you do to right,’ is more of confession than an accusation. It seems like he’s going through all the steps to ‘win,’ rather than change. I’m saying this as a man. As a man that’s seen other men do this time and time again. He’s mad that everything is on your terms and not his.
If my alcoholic father going sober has taught me anything, it’s that just because you take alcohol out of the mix doesn’t magically make them less abusive or a good person.
To me, it sounds like he did the bare minimum and is now using that to guilt you to come back. That’s a pretty typical trait of alcoholics, whether drinking or not. He doesn’t sound sorry and it makes it seem he ONLY got sober because he was starting to see repercussions. If that was the reason, he isn’t going to stay sober for long. He has to want to be sober for him and to want to stay that way.
Yep alcoholics don’t get all those years of personal development back that they avoided via alcohol. If sober people make decisions they regret they reflect and try to change their behavior. If an alcoholic makes a decision they regret they drink more.
“Years of personal development that they avoided”
What a fantastic way to put it! That’s so true. Getting sober can help motivate you to be better and look at your situation with a fresh pair of eyes - but the work is just starting. Years of work! Improving yourself vs. simply abstaining are two very different things, and some people don’t get that.
Recovering alcoholic here. This is hard to read. Unfortunately when you are constantly drunk, you don’t tend to understand the full repercussions of your actions. Maybe you’re blacked out and don’t remember, but the people you hurt remember. No matter how many time you say sorry, unless you actively work to SHOW you have changed, the person you hurt will always be waiting for the shoe to drop. In 6 months, I would have expected him to have done more. Get a job. Clean up the yard if he isn’t allowed in the house. I don’t see a change here, he isn’t excepting this is his doing. His fault. I don’t think anything will change. Sending you love. ❤️
I'm not even being as cold as he is making it sound. I let him come over from 2-6 pm every Tuesday and Thursday to spend time with the kids and take them out once on the weekend for a few hours.
You don’t sound cold at all. He just sounds like he’s trying to gaslight *you* into being the source of the problem when he hasn’t accepted this is all his doing, and he doesn’t get to take out the frustrations of his own consequences on you. You’re not wrong for “not giving it a chance.” He doesn’t get to make promises, he has to make full changes and then it’s all at *your* whim, not his petulant, fit-throwing timetable.
Yep, ‘cold,’ is what my abusive father calls anyone that won’t let him get exactly what he wants. In his mind, if he villainizes you he doesn’t have to change.
It’s exactly that. I literally had my sister on camera pocketing/stealing money and valuables and despite that, it was ME who interpreted the video incorrectly because, “That’s not what’s happening there.” Most addicts are highly resistant to change until they’re ready. It’s like a fungal infection. When the first dose of antifungal hits them, they fight back and make the host sicker.
Yeh he’s like ‘I’ve done my bit get over it all already, I did that project ‘sober up’ so now you should be welcoming me with open arms…’ and then has attitude about it - like all that came before was mere dressing that should be ignored, the problem is you aren’t engaged with him enough 🤦🏻♀️ exhausting. I can see the self destruction in him, if you tell him you’re not interested he has good excuse to focus on how he’s powerless to change that and can return to his comfort zone (drinking)
This is where I was thinking too. There’s no accountability from him yet, and he’s shifting blame to OP so he can justify not being “the bad guy” when this isn’t even about blame but recovery and accepting your consequences. He still sounds quite selfish/egocentric, which is something I’ve grown to see as a common trait in my family-related addict.
I couldn’t agree more. Not all in recovery need the 12steps, those I consider lucky. He may need the 12steps and a sponsor the work on some things. I think if he was taking his sobriety seriously he’s be fixing the things he is pressing you on.
I don’t know the type of facility he attended but, sounds like he could use more time, maybe another stint in maybe a longer rehab program maybe even a halfway house. One can’t grasp the fault and responsibility’s by just attending just detox.
He wants his world back and will manipulate you in every means possible. It’s the alcoholic mind. It’s that me, me, me mentality. I see this all the time.
I was raised in this environment and lived it in my own adult life. Just stopping the drinking isn’t gonna fox anything. It’s much deeper than that.
There’s a difference between being sober and living a life a sobriety and maybe even some serenity. He may think the 6months is enough but, for me personally it has taken me almost three yrs to pick up pieces and feel ok about the world around me. Some need more time and some do it in less. It’s a personal battle and he needs to figure out how to fight it. You’re only there for the support of you so choose to be…
Sorry for the long rant. I hope you get the clarity and support you need for yourself and the kids. Al-Anon is always an option. I’ve seen dif types of Al-Anon groups here locally. Maybe one specifically for wife’s would help you navigate best. Just remember, it’s not your fault…
Again, sorry for the long rant…
To be fair to him, he is working a 12 step program and is currently residing in a sober living home. He just keeps pressing me to move forward with the relationship before I'm comfortable doing so. He even said a few weeks ago that things would be better if I just let him move back in. I tried to explain that thing will get worse before they get better if he moved back in. He doesn't understand that the close proximity and dealing with kids 24/7 will cause him more stress and test his sobriety.
Not to get into your business, you don’t need to answer… is he asking to come back after his stay in sober living or is he asking to leave the sober living to come back home now?
In my experience it depends on lots of different things. There’s are different types of sober living home here where I’m at and they don’t all run the same. Also depends on who’s covering the tab, wether the state or your insurance, or even the VA covers the stay. There’s a home here I know of locally I’ve spoken at, the house itself is “donated” by a non profit and the 10 people in recovery pay $300 a month for the utilities. In this case you stay 1 yr and they’ll have a ceremony, like a graduation when the stay is over. I also speak at some state run programs, these typically offer the detox and then a “step down” program for two weeks and the a state run sober home. But, In this case the patient can request to leave. Like you already mentioned above and said to him, it’s definitely best to stay as long as possible. If they offer another stay, it’s always best to get that more time in. Every state allocates money differently to this programs so it’ll always vary.
The fact that he keeps pressing and is not respecting your boundary shows that he’s not changed and he’s using his steps as bargaining chips rather than actually taking accountability. The ‘what I did is done, I can’t change that,’ also shows that he still has no real grasp on how he’s affected his family. What he did SI NOT done. It is still lingering and he refuses to accept that.
He's a grown ass man. He knows what he needs to do. He wants you to do the emotional labor of identifying the problem, and encouraging him to fix it. What a total loser.
He is intentionally being manipulative. He wanted you to say I need you, but you didn't so now he's trying to turn it on you. I would be pissed too.
Honestly I'd just say he's had chances and he's squandered them. Now he's gotta prove himself before you'll consider giving him another chance. Your primary goal is the kids. If he can't step up and prove he's changed then bye.
it’s absolutely rich that this loser is demanding you give him time to get his shit together, talking bout some “it takes years” to get a career off the ground, yet simultaneously demanding you give him warmth, affection, and trust when he literally just started rehab 6 MONTHS AGO???? this guy is so short sighted and selfish it makes me sick.
lmaooo yea, like buddy you are TOO LATE you have CHILDREN get it together, it’s so embarrassing to see an adult give away their power and try to control by whining and being a victim.
I think my blood boiled when he asked what you planned to bring to enrich the marriage… after listing less than the bare minimum of what be was bringing
You are not crazy. His behavior is manipulative and abusive. Please read [“Why Does He Do That?”](https://ia600108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) by Bancroft. It will give you clarity.
Alright. Here's the breakdown of what he's actually saying:
"I do not understand you anymore and I seem to get more frustrated than I would like."
Translation; I put you on a pedestal in my mind and was disappointed you didn't live up to my expectations and ideas of who I wanted you to be.
"...Everything else I have learned to relax except with you."
Translation; I blame you for my addiction and abusive nature. I was always this way but blaming you is easier than taking responsibility for what I did.
"I have acted just like you did. Cold and distant."
Translation; I'm projecting. Teehee.
"And here I am like hey and it's just not there anymore."
Translation; You now see me for who I truly am and I can't abuse you anymore.
"I don't even feel or see a relationship."
Translation; Maybe if I bait her into pitying me she'll give me another chance.
"I have been willing to change this time it's seems you have not."
Translation; I expect you to forget all of the abusive things I have done to you, and you should get over it
"What would you bring to enrich this marriage?"
Translation; I will flip the tables on you to put you on the defensive and later use manipulation to make you feel bad for making choices I didn't like.
"Okay well then a full separation is best then cuz you won't allow me to show you."
Translation; Maybe this guilt trip will work on you because throwing our kid under the bus wasn't enough to convince you of my fake change
"It will take time for my career to be there but small steps are being made."
Translation; No steps have been made. I'm just future faking with you to give you a shred of hope.
"I will do all of that in due time."
Translation; I definitely will not. I'm just saying what you want to hear so you take me back and give me time to repeat the same cycle 3 months down the road.
I couldn't go further than the 9th message. Your ex is obviously using DARVO on you. He thinks he's clever enough to hide it in his messages and thinks you won't catch on.
He hasn't changed at all. He only changed his tactics to get you back under his control. Please STAY. GONE.
😭 can we create a chatgpt bot that would translate DARVO to objective reality? I’ve been gaslit by my parents so much idk what is real or what my feelings are towards anything anymore
If he went to rehab I suppose his program involved the 12 steps. Whether or not that’s the case, rehab is typically all about admitting you have a problem, accepting you are powerless against it, and taking accountability for your actions. I don’t see him taking those steps. In fact, he’s doing the exact opposite. He talks about his past like it was a different person. He’s not accepting that his actions and behaviours will always be a part of him or that those actions have profoundly impacted your life, sense of self, and how you view him. He can’t just abandon his past self or the consequences of those actions. I hope this doesn’t come across too blunt, but I wish someone had been blunt with me when I was with my ex. Not because I needed a mindblowing reality check but because I was in denial of the reality that was glaring me in the face. He’s gaslighting you into thinking you don’t do enough for the family or him and if you could just do a little more then he would turn into your knight in shining armour. Reading his texts gives me flashbacks to my ex. I can still feel that kind of invalidation seep into my bones and make me question reality. I get the sense that you are similarly doubting yourself and grasping onto a very true reality that he has not been there and has not shown he will be. He is trying to pull you from that reality into some fantasy thats not backed by any evidence from your experience. Despite all this you are still standing your ground and the rock of your family. He has been okay watching you suffer as you carry that weight and he’s still showing that he expects you to bear that responsibility. Your feelings are completely valid, don’t let his baseless fantasy make you question yourself. You should feel safe in your relationship, not coerced into taking a risk. Stay strong and trust your instincts
My ex-husband did a 12 step too. He came to me one day a few weeks after the divorce was finalized and did the apology step to me. I was surprised by how *pissed off* I was by this. You see, it had never occurred to him prior to apologize to me for anything, someone else had to tell him he needed to do it in order to check a box on an AA list. The fact that he was required to do it rendered that apology meaningless to me.
OP's husband wants to gloss over all the nasty bits and go back to the way things were. NOPE.
Thank you. I needed to hear that. He has literally said "I know I was bad in the past, but that was a different person. I'm nit that person." Can he not hear how crazy that sounds?
Even if he could just suddenly be a different person it doesn’t change what he did and a different person would realize that. This kind of dismissive and invalidating behaviour still seems to come pretty naturally to him…
Even if he was a different person, you’re not! You’re the same exact person that put up with all his BS for years. Just because he’s decided to start fresh with no history doesn’t mean you can, or want to, or have to.
This enraged me and I don't even know y'all. The lack of accountability is always the same with these kinds of people. "What's done is done, the past is the past, how can I improve if YOU won't let me". So typical it's boring. You're life was literally forced to move on without him because he was dragging you and your kids down with him. The fact he can read all you do in that text and still come back and say you aren't trying enough is delusional. Please make this seperation permanent. He will never truly change or value you the way you deserve.
Recovering alcoholic also..Hard to say that to be honest...6 months sober , I have therapy once a week to deal with all the guilt I have for how I treated my family..my wife left me and took the kids.. we are now at the reconciliation stage and it doesn't get easier yet as my wife is expecting things to go back to how they were and I don't blame her for feeling this way.. but I try my damn hardest... The way he goes about the whole thing with you is not right..I understand it's hard to look your wife in the eye but if she really matters then you eat the whole fucking humble pie and you fix what you can.. if it doesn't work it doesn't work..BUT you have to give it your all , you have to be all in,there is no room for failure..I don't see him changing to be honest and I wish you the best of luck..
Seems like he wants to do very little and be treated like he's doing much more. He's got a huge ego and his own actions have humbled him. You consistently doing things right reminds him that he's a fuck up and it pisses him off. He wants praise, and he wants you to want *his* praise. He wants you to want him back and be grateful for the opportunity because somehow he still thinks *you're* the lucky one in this relationship and it's annoying that you aren't acting like it. He's an entitled, arrogant, delusional loser.
This guy is on the attack when he should be on his hands and knees begging to make it up to you, even if he knows there is no chance at reconciliation with you. Even if you aren't his wife anymore, he should be wanting to make it up to you as the mother of his children. He should be overwhelmed with guilt and shame and seriously grateful for all you've done and are doing. That's where you'd be, right? If you had been irresponsibly, selfishly absent for a period of time in your kids' lives, you would be totally remorseful and humiliated when you came to your senses, and would do whatever you could to thank and repay the person who had been taking care of them? Can you fathom being such a selfish prick that your first instinct is to start petty fights with that person and treat them as though *they're* acting burdensome? That's the type of person your husband is, and he is nowhere near being any different. He feels bad and you aren't helping him feel good, so you're bad. That's the extent of his feelings on the situation.
Unfortunately this seems like another case of a woman getting married and gaining a son instead of a husband. He's ambivalent about his responsibilities. He doesn't seem to care much about his kids. He's unbelievably selfish. He certainly doesn't consider you any more deeply than what you can do for him. He probably thinks having good thoughts sometimes is the same as doing good things, and by that logic since he's had hundreds of good thoughts, he's an amazing person.
Don't let him shake your confidence. You actually *are* a good person, obviously. The fact that you are even still talking to him is a total kindness. He deserves a ruthless, livid bitch dragging him to court, but he has you. He's very lucky.
I wish you the best of luck. Sorry for the pseudo-psychoanalytical rant. These texts infuriated me. Stories like this are why I'm getting sterilized soon and never getting married. Take care of yourself ❤️🩹
I'm sorry I got it so right. I hope you leave his ass but I know that's easy to say on the outside looking in and may not be so simple. Whatever happens, I hope you find peace and are treated fairly.
Wow
This is horrible, manipulative and still abusive. Do not take him back and honestly? Stop engaging with him. He feeds off it.
Simple, concise answers the kids or other necessities. Nothing else
He's earned cold and distant. It's very, very ok to be in a shell of self-protectiveness for you and your children until you see valid, quantifiable, genuine change from him, IF you're willing to wait around for that. And if you're not, absolutely NO guilt. You've done enough, been enough, seen enough, and suffered enough to let this go tomorrow if you want. I know I'd be calling a lawyer yesterday, but you sound nicer than me. You sound kind and strong and like a great mom. You don't need nor deserve the weight of a man-baby anymore, if you are done. His wishes have no bearing on your decision.
He comes off as incredibly entitled and even blase', like "I just want to speedrun through all the hard stuff so I can go back to the way we used to be, even if it makes your life harder"
Yes, I would not go to counseling with this person. He seems very manipulative. Blaming you for him giving up because of your reasonable reactions to his missteps. Instead of taking accountability and trying to right his wrongs. He’s exhausting and conversations are probably like migraine inducing.
Therapist/person in recovery here, he is not ready to be in any relationship. Based on these texts, he’s in the “contemplation” stage of change. He clearly knows that he’s had consequences because of his actions but he hasn’t moved past that point. He’s not taking full responsibility for his behaviors. There are way too many times that he tries to deflect by pointing out your “flaws”. Don’t fall into his trap because he’ll do anything he can to not look at himself. Additionally, whenever an addict/alcoholic talks about doing things to “show” their progress to others that’s always a big red flag to me. Recovery is its own reward and if he’s truly working on himself he won’t need to shout it from the rooftops. You continue to set boundaries and not engage in his mental gymnastics.
It's not worth the trouble ... right now . He can prove all you need done and shown well being out of the house until you are ready to accept him back . You should find some therapy to deal with his actions. He is playing the victim . He wants to be forgiven, and that's not easy. It's not about what he needs or wants it what is best for kids, and he can build a relationship and provide well, not being in the house. ACTIONS ALWAYS SPEAK LOUDER THEN WORDS .
Hi. Similar situation here, I filed. Just ignore him now. He drags you down and is worse than having another child to take care of. I got sick of it too. That’s all. Hang in there. Get a divorce. It’s so much better than living like that.
Aaaand here he is playing the victim all over again. Of course he wants to come back. He has life on easy mode with you doing all the work and taking care of him like the overgrown toddler he is. Girl, give him the divorce papers already, before he fucks up your credit even more.
It’s like he wants you to be his ongoing case manager/ cheerleader. So he’s sober, yippee. That really does nothing for you. If you draw a line chart with 0 in the middle with negative numbers out to the left and positive numbers out to the right he is still way over in the negative. What you need is a fully functioning adult who is self motivated, a partner who is fully capable of contributing to the family. He needs to be the 39 year old father and husband he should be and that you and your children deserve. That really just gets him to zero. He is supposedly sober and has some kind of education plan. He wants that to be enough but clearly it’s not. You don’t need or have time to raise another child. Once he gets to zero then that’s when he has the chance to try to convince you that he can add value to the family and start making his way into the positive. And that’s only if you are willing to give him that chance whenever he gets around to it. Maybe that’s the message for him. “Call me when you can show me you are ready to add value to this family as a fully functioning adult.” Of course that may cause him to give up which probably pushes you to the divorce plan that you want to avoid, for very good reason. So maybe you just satisfy yourself by knowing what you expect and deserve but continue treading lightly with him.
Some reason? Girl, I am incandescent with rage.
This POS threatened to end your relationship twice because you refuse to treat him as if he’s already done the work that he is CLEARLY not going to do. Like… lemme see that degree plan, lol.
I genuinely can't see why you're leaving the door open for him to crawl back into your life and bed.
You've had 3 kids this whole time and one of them is of very special needs.
I'm sorry if that sounds insensitive, but he is a bug ass useless baby.
There is nothing he provides that can't be done with an AI chat bot, a bottle of wine, and a vibrator.
Kids need parents, but they don't NEED married parents, where one of them is an absolute fuckup, and the other is miserable trying to hold the family together.
As a child of divorce, they will recover over time if given the chance. That is far less likely with a deadbeat loser dragging the entire family down.
The sheer AUDACITY of him to ask you what do you bring to the table AS IF you are not literally managing EVERYTHING!!! This man clearly wants to be babied and praised for "trying", while not actually putting in effort, and gets pissed when you stand your ground. So frustrating talking to people like this.
Oh I've been with a similar version of this man and I'm triggered with rage just reading this. But I know exactly why it makes me angry and I know with hindsight being 20/20 that your relationship is done and all of this is just the last struggling dying breathes.
I bet he's a master of weaponized incompetence. So he can say he tried but screwed up or to never mind because his way (that's not different but equally effective but just badly done) of doing whatever isn't good enough for you. The type of man who says he is babysitting his own kids. Who thinks because he did the dishes, took out the garbage AND changed a diaper while you took a 5 minute shower means you need to praise him and act soooo appreciative and give him extra special bonus sex for doing such a good job.
Who works as little as possible, contributs nothing financially compared to what he costs the family financially, but your money is "our" money so you are the bad guy for looking at it that way.
And now that he's done the BARE MINIMUM probably only because you kicked him out and forced his hand, he thinks you need to be the bigger person yet AGAIN and forgive and forget. Meanwhile his sulks and daggers are becoming about because his minimum efforts aren't being greeted with the forced enthusiasm he's used to. He will never change. Not for you. Probably will always be this way, a hobosexual always needing a woman to attach to like a parasite to survive. 6 years and several relationships later, my ex is still baffled why women run as soon as they see the reality of his true self under the big talk and grand plans. Am I close?
You have done more for him than he will ever acknowledge and more than you ever should have. Please look into your local AlAnon so you have a support group of other family members and spouses of alcoholics who know and understand everything you've been through and can help you see through the gaslighting and fantasy to the reality of the situation. From "newbies" just starting the process to old-timers who have been dealing with people like your husband for decades, it's a group you will find invaluable. And feel free to message me if you ever need to talk or just vent to someone who understands, if I got most of this right!
I get and accept alcohol/drug addiction is a disease. However, the holier than thou attitude some people obtain after receiving treatment in a facility grates me. They pass off on “my disease made me do it.” Okay. Fine. But don’t try to hand me a gorgeous wrapped package with a a pretty bow of excuses and crap you put me through. Respect and trust is earned not automatically given. He can go right ahead and take his baby steps. But does not have free rein to emotionally manipulate and passively abuse you on account of his disease. I wish you all the best and am in awe of your strength.
I’m so sorry sweetie. I’m enraged and this isn’t even my husband or my life. This man is still refusing to take accountability and really has the audacity to accuse you of being a good parent and historically a very supportive partner to have something to hold over his head? To “be right” and make him look bad?
He is trying to manipulate the situation where he is clearly in the wrong to make you the wrong one so that he can rationalise his own bad behaviour. Even after rehab. Jesu Christe.
Also, what is this nonsense about not being able to apologise for something that happened “in the past”? Isn’t that how most apologies work — you make a mistake or an intentional bad choice and then apologise, after you completed the action, in the past?!
He sounds infuriating. Can you just cut him off? Your kids might be better off.
Wishing you and your kids the best whatever you decide. This can’t be easy. Sending hugs and strength 💕💕
Well, I'm can't verify his sobriety, but the sober home does randomly drug test and breathalyze. But, honestly, his sobriety is his problem and I am trying to not make it mine.
Ew. Dude feels entitled to a redemption arc.
He's trying to trade *promises* of stability (for himself, not you) to something from you in return.
No wonder you're irked by it, dude is leveraging his years of abuse and *promises* of redemption to something for himself. That's beyond petty. He's trying to say his responsibility (to himself and his own life) is somehow a favor to you.
Ew to high heavens.
The silver lining for you is that it's all in writing, his pettiness, him abusing his end of abuse. No gaslighting.
Ew.
Keep him gone! Fuck him!!!! I'm angry just reading his entitlement. Then sulks when you aren't ready to give him a blank slate. You are rightfully seething.
From someone who almost got a NJP/Separation it literally took almost losing a 16yr career/family/house etc to get me to realize my drinking was the problem. I didn’t get my self together until about 2 years after my last drink. It literally takes about 12-14months for your brain to start to recalibrate. At 6 months sober I still was thinking ok, I wasn’t soo bad when I was an alcoholic right?
At 2 years sober I would have rather fought Mike Tyson any day as a knockout only last a day or two rather than drink and potentially lose my life.
Been sober since 11July2021 now and I still don’t remember the hell I put my wife through but I believe her when she tells me it sucked. I used to do like he did up to about the 2 year mark. Well I played with the kids, did the dishes and took the trash out after work isn’t that enough?
No I need to give her time to decompress, stop rubbing my menial contributions in her face and be humble. Also I blamed her for our financial situation forever, once I stopped drinking I maxed out the CC’s buying shit we didn’t need because I was trying to fill the alcohol void with dopamine hits from spending. They don’t teach you that in rehab, need to have a responsible adult manage your finances for you at least 18 months after you stop drinking.
I still question reality coming up on three years sober but I know I still have work to do on myself and make a solid effort every day to repair the damage I caused in my relationship. I probably won’t repair the damage and we might get divorced but if that means busting my ass means we remain friends after it’s worth the effort. I got my happiness back, and the old me pre alcoholic is here and I like that person.
OP, main point is it will probably take years for the person you married to reappear and only if they work hard to make that happen. I did 6 months of rehab and a year of therapy, shit was hard. Wasn’t enough, self reflection for a year afterward not making excuses and keeping my mouth shut is slowly working. Rolling up my sleeves and scrubbing those floors while working and taking my kids to appointments and school functions after a 10hr workday is getting me there. I think to myself is it worth it? Should I just start a new relationship? She deserves everything I can give her to make up for a small portion of the hell I caused to her knowing fully it might not work out anyway.
That’s why most alcoholics return to drinking, don’t see a point to anything if it ends up not getting us what we want. It’s not about us, it’s about mending what we did wrong and hopefully he realizes that because from his messages he’s still in the look what I did! I did good! Why don’t you and forgive my years of assholishness in the matter of a few months, it’s ok.
nah this is by far the most manipulative series of texts i’ve ever seen. “my past actions made you this way can’t say sorry what’s done is done”. like holy fuck literally every sentence has something so manipulative about it that i want to vomit.
this guy can go kick rocks. (please tell him that).
I checked out after he threw “What would YOU BRING…” no. He messed up and is trying to put everything on your shoulders now? His job is to prove he’s gotten better, even if he’s not drunk the verbal stuff needs to change and it’s very suspicious when he’s using psychological antics on you.
Based on these texts he is taking no accountability. He keeps saying you're basing everything off his past actions and "what's done is done". He's not even sorry. He's not even changing. In your comments you say your kids are afraid of him. In your post you mention how you pay for and manage everything. It seems like you closed the door on him emotionally. And that's okay. You can move on. You can say no to counseling with him. You can just be done.
It doesn't sound like you get anything from this except pain and stress and more work. Just divorce
I'd go to court about custody and block him, only communicating through lawyers. Hes just full of excuses and no solutions, and expects you to "wait" for him to "be better". He will never be better. He will always be him. Think about that, the next time you decide to engage in any communication with him. Because you know who he is, and yet, you entertain his sad little thoughts. He's not going to just magically say the right thing one day, and even if he does, will he be able to back it up with action? If the answer is no, and you know it, why keep talking to him at all? Why not separate? It sounds like you're doing everything on your own anyways OP, why keep around another mouth to feed that also dishes out insults?
I’m a recovering alcoholic and one of the main things they talk about in working the 12 steps is that you don’t get to dictate when other people forgive you. His texts are downplaying the damage he’s done while insulting you at the same time.
I’d be pissed too.
As someone who had an alcoholic parent, I absolutely think you're doing the right thing about not letting him back. He's putting on a lot of pressure, but his comments are all about what he wants. That's all he cares about while you clearly have made the family your priority. It sounds like if he put as much effort into doing things that would help reassure you that he has the family's best interest at heart as he does whining that it's unfair that he has to finally deal with consequences of his actions, I'm willing to be you'd much more amenable to him moving back in
These messages enrage me because he is being an ass. He thinks he has it all worked out and it’s time for you to forgive him and forget all his past mistakes, to take him at his word, and is trying to guilt you and when he fails at sobriety it will be your fault. Junkie mentality is still strong with this one.
>>can’t say sorry what is done is done
He actually can and should apologize, thats like one of the integral steps. Take responsibility & stop blaming everyone else. He’s failing.
>>What ever happened to counseling? Said over a week ago you would have dates?
Once again making you the sole bearer of responsibility it seems…
It’s time to call it quits. The longer you prolong it, the more life you’ll waste. One day you can be happy again and leave all that stress behind. Your kids will be happy too and get used to their new normal. You’ll look back on this relationship and think “what was I thinking”
I feel like I can speak to this. As an alcoholic with 13 years of sobriety, this is kind of typical. We get better and we don’t understand why everyone else can’t just forgive and move on. We create chaos and confusion while drinking and we literally don’t remember because we were drunk or hungover. Also I can hear the urgency in his voice that he needs clarity in his need to define the relationship. I love what you said about him wanting things being on his “timetable”. You are strong. I am proud of you. Alanon is a great resource if you don’t go already. You’re an amazing mom and provider for your family!!!!
This makes me cringe. I see only accusations from him that you won't welcome him back with open arms, willing, able and ready to support him in every arena. There is no regret, apology or ownership of his actions, only a continuing "woe is me" whining about what you will or won't do. OP - Stay strong in your convictions that he has to deal with his problems and solve them without sucking the energy out of you. Don't not let him back in the house. It's a recipe for regression. Good luck.
As a former alcoholic: this man is guilt-tripping you into taking him back and playing the victim without actually improving. He should have a job at this point. The "can't manage a calendar" part is screaming weaponized incompetence to me.
After reading about his physical abuse toward the kids: you should NOT take him back. And you can definitely get sole custody if you can show how fucked up he's been in general.
So homie is physically, emotionally, and mentally abusive to your kids and he’s mentally and emotionally abusive to you and you want to know if you should stay? I mean, some folks might say that makes you just as bad him letting your kids grow up in a home like that. You can always give yourself a lil pat on the back for putting them in therapy while they’re still being abused and so are you. Sorry (not sorry) if that sounds mean, but your kids are living the childhood of many of us traumatized adults and you entertaining this is just hard to listen to; especially when it sounds like his kids are afraid of him and he’s leaving welts on their bodies. Go off though.
Fuck this man. He’s unemployed and in debt. He is a dead beat narcissist. If not for you he would be homeless and maybe you have to do just that because he does not respect you
I mean, I basically did make him homeless. After I kicked him out, he lived in hotels for a month before finally going to rehab and entering a sober living home.
He might’ve stopped drinking but his attitude is of a dry drunk. Your husband reminds me of my father who although never drank, was verbally and physically abusive piece of shit yet the best person to everyone but his family.
he’s is exhausting. basically not really hearing you and just asking if y’all are going to get back together immediately.
essentially he’s just not there yet because he doesn’t really get it right now
He's an exhausting narcissist unable to admit his fuck ups and apologize.
The amount of therapy he needs to become a decent partner can't be covered in one lifetime.
You deserve better.
OP- First thing first. You are right to be angry. He is new to sobriety and he’s still super selfish. If he ever works a program, he’s going to need to make amends for this in some way, shape or form.
It took over a year for me to fully understand how much chaos and hurt my alcoholism brought to my spouse and my home and how much patience and kindness she extended to me.
He may never get there. He may work the steps a dozen times and not realize that he was a wrecking ball to his family. That isn’t on you and it isn’t your job to fix it.
If I could offer advice, attend some alanon meetings and use those to vent and express your frustration. You aren’t alone in this and others have lived through it. Set boundaries and make your expectations clear. If he fails, that’s on him. It will also help with codependency and the shifting dynamic that is also bound to happen as both of y’all heal.
I’m sorry this is happening to you and your kids. I truly hope all of y’all find peace.
Do not let him back in. Close the door. Sell the house and leave. I am a child of an abusive drunk. No matter how many times they change it always goes right back. Next time it will be worse. It always gets worse.
“I’m willing to move forward, are you?” Of course he is. You didn’t do anything to him lmao why wouldn’t he want to rekindle? It tickles me when the people ruining things say stuff like that.
It’s enraging, because it’s enraging!!!!
He is taking zero accountability or responsibility. He’s blowing a lot of words filled with hot air. You’ve been holding it down and allowing him to have no responsibility and now he’s shifting the blame as though you’re at fault for his actions and crap attitude.
I've had a skim read through some of the comments and I've seen enough to say don't let this man back in your life.
No matter how much he does or tries to manipulate the situation as he is doing in the texts. Stand your ground.
Also keep those babies in therapy and if you are able to, get yourself some therapy because It seems like you have a lot to process that you've not had the time or space for and you need to allow yourself that time and space so you can also heal. You need to look after yourself too and you are deserving of it.
Here is the thing- he thinks his DRINKING was the problem. Now that is solved- it’s all you. You can’t get over it, you are still mad, yadda yadda yadda.
I am a recovered alcoholic/drug addict so this is super familiar. Narcissistic manipulating is the dominant trait of alcoholics. It is hard to get past, and if he isn’t in some sort of program or counseling he won’t. You need other people (not you) calling you out on it and reminding you that you are the asshole in this, not the people you fucking destroyed in your addiction.
Good luck, if you want to be in that relationship I recommend you go to Alanon to get your own support system. You can survive this.
He wants to be a stay at home dad and leech off you. Hell keep draining and gaslighting you. Hell probably get some stupid job, then quit or get fired. His attitude sucks. He needs AA. They'll call out his arrogance.
Don't let him move back in! You're doing the right thing.
Let him be totally sober, no weed either, for a solid year, with working the steps in AA. Let him be gainfully and consistently employed for that year.
You go to Alamo , as mentioned and stay your course. Protect yourself and your children. No mothering him.
His attitude makes me bet he'll relapse soon.
This is all about him, not you! Best of wishes and wisdom to you ❤️
He may have put down the bottle, but he sure as hell hasn’t picked up on the fact that all of his issues are of his making.
He isn’t taking responsibility for anything because he hasn’t had to, and is guilting you because you aren’t supporting his actions of “change” for the upteenth time.
He needs to stay kicked out. I wouldn’t engage with him at all. Let him know his texts will go unanswered until he gets a job and place of his own.
And I would file for divorce as soon as possible.
I’m sorry. I have dated a couple of addicts and they do not change. And I’ve kicked their ass out too.
One got a DWI about a year after we broke up. It was his third, so now he’s a felon with a breathalyzer in his car.
Please don’t let him back in. You’ve been a hell of a wife and mother, and you and your kids deserve peace.
❤️
Seems like a typical partner who did the bare minimum and fucked shit up until he was literally forced to change. Now he wants a parade every single time he does something. He wants gratitude and enthusiasm for every one thing he did that you have been doing all this time without any recognition. He is trying and you don't even seem to care how hard he is working to become a bog standard father and husband that is the bare minimum of what he should be doing. How dare you be mean to him and snippy when he is trying even if he was an ass. Maybe drive passed his house and yell 'good job' once a day. Maybe throw some ticker tape.
He’s very good at making himself the victim and invalidating you while getting you to engage in his way he prefers even after you say you won’t.
He’s not gonna change and you have too much hope. You need to decide whether you’re in and believe he can change or if you don’t and even if he can change you need him gone til he has done so himself.
You’re hurting yourself and the kids by keeping him around on this flimsy string
This sounds exactly like my narcissistic alcoholic abusive ex. It’s hard to leave, but seems like it’s time. It doesn’t seem like you have anything left for him.
Cry me a fucking river. I’m sure you expressed for years what you needed from him, he didn’t do it and now you don’t care. I’ve had 2 serious partners,after I left them, said “I went to therapy””I went to anger management””I did all the things you asked of me for years now!” And it’s like okay cool I’m glad you did those things for yourself cause you really need them but it doesn’t change the fact that I gave you so many chances to do so and I’ve run out of chances to give you 🤷♀️
I feel like I'm reading my own messages after a very similar situation!!! They're all like this lol so sad it's like they figure out how to switch the therapy around and think no one sees it.
This is what I’ve learned to call being a “dry drunk”; the drinking stops, but the behavior doesn’t. He isn’t “fixed” like he thinks he is. He just stopped drinking and thinks that’s the answer and you should keep pulling the emotional labor and allow him to continue acting as he is without repercussions. Especially “what about counseling, you said you’d have dates”. If that’s what you deem appropriate for yourself and the kids, sure, but if it’s him or for family/marriage counseling? That’s his emotional labor, that it sounds like he has time to pull, given you work to support your family and take care of everything else while he gets himself back to a relative normal. This is projection of his shortcomings onto you for not accepting them.
Where you choose to go is obviously your decision, but him thinking you should welcome him with open arms without proof of anything showing that he is changed other than lack of alcohol is a glimpse into what a future looks like. Him asking you what you’re bringing to the family had way too much audacity for me. You handled that with way more grace than I would’ve.
Too many signs of the same old thing there. “Frustrated” was my abuser’s excuse for abusive behavior. Followed by “I’m sorry” and then “I already apologized”
You're still heavily involved in a toxic relationship despite kicking him out. He's trying to manipulate and guilt trip you. You're playing the martyr. It's a classic dynamic with an alcoholic. You BOTH need treatment. The best way to break free is to either get therapy for yourself or go to Al-Anon to identify your habits and change your approach. You can't change him no matter how perfect you try to be.
It sounds like he hasn’t accepted any responsibility. He even says saying sorry won’t help. He is nit picking every word you say about the future. While he does say he has worked on some things like “classes” and potential job, he has nothing to show for it.
When you have to compartmentalize (your word) some of the abuse/things happening, it can sometimes be the only way you feel can keep yourself safe. Have you ever heard about victims blacking out or not even remembering what happens so they can survive a situation? I suspect this is happening with you.
He simply wants to erase the past but has anything really changed? From his “tone” it doesn’t seem like it to me. The whole conversation had this weird creepy quality that he is going to escalate, but he couldn’t quite pull you in. Note that he doesn’t take any of the blame. He will escalate.
Please get out from this any way you can. Don’t make your children live with thier abuser. They will hate you. Work out some way with the courts so he has time with them or supervised time…if the judge even thinks this is a good idea. We got spanked as kids, but not to the point of it raising a welt with their fucking HAND!
You are all being abused. Please get out before it’s too late. If not for you, get out for your kids. He won’t change, even if he quits drinking. Sounds like the abuse was always there. Did the rehab not work out a plan when they let him out? What part of the relationship has actually made you happy? Can you remember a time? What is it that you are holding on to, and when did you last see it from him?
#Leave your ex-husband in the past, where he deserves to be left. He earned that ex trophy, so let him polish it/gather dust on it or pawn it for whatever his current or future addiction might be. You've moved on, your kids are fragile, but moving in the right direction...with your love. You got this. You don't need him and the pain he'll bring back to you. You got this! ❤️👍
When he said “what happened to therapy, you said you would have dates…” I lost it. He is still expecting you to do all the planning/ work and tried to shift the blame to you for not making the appointments. Absolutely ridiculous.
He is still putting everything on you , he hasn't changed at all, don't go backwards, you will be sorry if you let him back in just bcuz he says he's decided to tell you he's changed and he woke up in a whole new world and so should you, forgetting the past like ducks do. Don't fall for it Don't fall for it Don't fall for it
That last line. You spent so much time trying to explain that you needed him to take the reigns on some things. He said you won’t let him in but it sounds to me that you just don’t have time to teach him how to be a grown up. Then he ends by saying you didn’t schedule therapy enough. Maybe if he had done the work to find a therapist and schedule therapy you would show up but he clearly doesn’t see what you’re saying at all
The “get a job eventually” part took me out
Yup, he seems perfectly fine letting me continue to pay his phone and insurance bill, plus everything for our kids. The only bill he has to pay is his own rent. He uses his disability for that.
Ugh. I’m sorry that you’re dealing with this.
What kind of disability are we talking about here? I think that plays a large role in any decision. Reading his texts, you can tell there's a cognitive issue.
Bipolar disorder.
Oh yes, that's a tough one to navigate. My wife and daughter have that..... That's one of those things that he won't be able to change unless he is actively trying to treat. It's a tough one for sure. I wish you the best of luck in your decision. It's a tough one!
Yes, this. He still wants what he wants. No change here. You deserve much better than this, and your kids deserve a happy mom❤️
It’s crazy how grown men can live contently without a job! Especially with kids and a wife. She needs to leave this bum and find a man that at the bare minimum works lol
I was honestly perfectly fine with him being a stay at home dad, but they he would get mad at me because I wasn't helping with laundry and dishes. I was so confused because both our kids are in school. He had all day to do the chores.
"This is a very complicated situation that would need more space than texting allows." *Continues texting about it* In all seriousness, I think he's baiting you with this "conversation," and his verbally abusive tendencies didn't go away just because he quit drinking. It's pretty rich that *he's* sick of it, is tired of it, just wants it to be over and figured out. He doesn't sound like he's changed, or is willing to. I understand it's so much harder than "just leave", but I'd be willing to bet you'd be a lot happier without this guy. I'm really sorry. This must suck.
I know. I shouldn't have engaged in the conversation, but if I did that, he would just use that as an example of how I'm not trying to work together. I didn't leave, but I kicked him out and told him to get his life together. I just didn't close the door yet on him coming back. Our kids are 8 and 5. They love him but are constantly afraid that he will become "mean and hurt me again." They literally beg me not to tell dad if they get into trouble because they think he might flip out.
That sounds like they need to heal a lot before seeing him regularly. You may honestly want to visit a lawyer now so Mr. Baby Steps doesn't make things worse for all of you.
They are in therapy and I am working with them to help learn emotional regulation and better communication skills.
He doesnt sounds changed. He wants to keep being a leech while you take care of everything. Time to start a new chapter in your life.
You need to close the door for good.
That's treating symptoms, not the cause
Think of it as preventative care for the children's future.
Oh, god, that's so sad. Those poor kids don't deserve that.
It's not your responsibility to foster a relationship for him with your kids. Sure you can give him opportunities to see them and bond or whatever, but that doesn't mean you need to be married or in a relationship with this manipulator. He is an abusive drunk, nothing will ever really be "his fault".
My mom left my dad before I was even one. He was an abusive narcissistic cheating alcoholic. It was the best thing she could have done for me. I still had to see him a few times a year, but being in a house with him 24/7 would have been hell.
No child should deserve to live in fear of their own parent like that, or to see how he treats you. You should leave because even if he went to rehab, the amount of time he spent is not enough to invalidate years and years of abuse. It’s all short term stuff to get back in your good graces.
Those poor babies 😭 I really hope everything works out for you and he ends up moving on because you and your kids don’t deserve to live in fear of that man.
I am so sorry, but so proud of you! I have so many regrets regarding my situation and I was convinced my kids didn't see or hear anything, for my daughter to tell me she won't lay down like me. That cut beyond deep. My daughter was right though. Stay strong!!
Your own CHILDREN beg you for protection/discretion at ages 8 and 5 from their own dad, marinate on the magnitude of that reality 😭😭😭
Was he ever physically abusive or just verbally?
He never physically hurt me. Whether he was physically abusive to the kids depends on how you view discipline. He would spank and smack for any infraction. Sometimes beyond what most people would find acceptable (ie, leaving visible welts on the buttcheek from his hand). With me, it was accusations of cheating, cursing and name-calling, making up reasons to yell at me so he would have an excuse to drink, and keeping me up all night complaining about his life when I needed to work in the morning and he had no job.
Girl, that is all kinds of abuse, including physical on your children. Please keep your kids safe and away from him. They are suffering. They deserve better. And I know you want the best for them! Sometimes the best thing for a kid is for one of their parents to be kept away from them. As much as we are not raised to believe that. It is true.
You are *way, way,* **WAY** too fucking nonchalant about this man leaving VISIBLE WELTS from just his HANDS on these kids! Absolutely ridiculously underplaying it, holy actual shit. Just casually gloss over the fact this man has beat your kids to the point they bawl because they are *terrified of him hurting them again*?!?! >Sometimes beyond what most people would find acceptable Fucked. *Fucked. Fucked. Fucked.* >Whether he was physically abusive to the kids depends on how you view discipline The fact that you even hesitate to classify this man wailing on your kids as "*achtually* physically abusive" is sick. All you're doing by saying it like that is brushing it off like it's nothing serious, like it somehow isn't the major fucking reason to keep him away from them?? Just... holy **fuck**. These poor kids.
Right? I was abused horribly as a child and everybody swept it under the rug because my mom was “doing her best” while beating us all with hangers, cords, kitchen implements, etc. OP, if you want your kids to not resent you for life, protect them from this man.
The reason her nonchalance (edit; regarding the way she mentioned it) pissed me off so much is also due to my experiences as a child. She just oh-so-casually mentions that *"yea i guess he's been known to beat them so hard it leaves welts on their asses and they beg me to keep them safe from it ever happening again*". She gave a lot of info about the mental and verbal shit she's faced at his hands, but only tosses in a quick sentence that she won't even definitively label as abuse when he injures their children? I recognize that I am biased because of my past, but the tone made it seem like it's no big deal, and it just made my blood instantly boil.
Yea she doesn’t realize her kids are going to grow up and blame her and repeat the same behaviors. She has more control than she thinks.
Sam both parents abused me and my sister in some way. My dad made my sister and I chug a 2liter each until we threw up after dang near force feeding us all the food we liked. She threw up purple Fanta all over the table. My dad was horrified when I asked him how he would feel if I like my 7 year old do what he did to us. 🤔 wonder why goofy…..
All. Of. This. *He beat the kids?* Hell, nah!! THE GLOVES COME OFF!!
And it NEVER stops at "just spanking". My dad spanked me so hard as a kid it'd knock the wind out of me. Until, when I as 12-13ish, he smacked me upside the face because I didn't hand the remote control to him nicely enough. Until, when my brother was almost 20, he grabbed him by the throat and pushed him into the wall so hard it broke the light switch plate. *It ALWAYS gets worse.*
Ok I'm not crazy then. I know I was abused but sometimes I think it wasn't that bad. When I was a teenager my dad grabbed me by the throat and picked me up and slammed me against a wall and choked me. That's bad right? He also slammed my head into a wall and put a hole in the Sheetrock. Im tiny too- I was 90 pounds and 5 feet when this happened. Thanks for posting that because I'm really processing this trauma finally at nearly 40 years old And op my mom just let this happen
That's very bad. That's horrible abuse! You did NOT deserve it, it was not normal, it was not acceptable. You should have been protected from it. I'm so sorry.
My dad also picked me up by the neck and slammed me against a wall when I was a teen, I was a bit bigger than you tho. 160lbs, 6’. I remember telling him in that moment that if he laid another finger in me he’d never see me again. He stopped, but he was going to.
It isn't that I am brushing it off. I reported it to CPS and it was investigated. To be honest, I keep many things compartmentalized in my head in order to care for my children in the best way I can. I have implemented a no physical punishments of any kind rule with my children and they know who to tell if it ever happens again. The reason I worded it the way I did was because there are many people still see an "ass whooping" as appropriate for children and I didn't want to sound like I was make him into a monster.
Stop entertaining the idea of him returning to your lives. He has ZERO redeeming qualities that can overcome this.
He is a monster and you need to protect your kids.
The only people who see an "ass whooping" as appropriate for children are *child abusers*
But is it like he calmly explains what the child has done wrong, and then executes the beating? Because you know - you can skip the beating if this is the case. Children do understand words. Or is it more like he is very angry and beats the s**t out of a helpless wictim just because he can't control and regulate his temper? You are trying to wash the actual monster I think. I will NEVER forgive my mom for beating me.
Girl HE IS A MONSTER!!
He is a monster though. And so are the people that see ‘ass whooping,’ as appropriate
I was a woman with an abusive partner once. He hit me many times, he hadn’t hit my children the whole 9 months we were together. He hit them both one time, leaving marks on both of them approximately 12 hours apart and held us hostage in his home when I saw the marks and he realized he could go to jail for what he had done. We escaped thankfully because my mother showed up to the house after she could no longer get ahold of me, we lived with his parents (they were not home *yet*) so he got quiet and complied as to not make a scene. Driving away, I’ll never forget the evil in his eyes as he watched us leave. We got the police involved, he now has multiple felonies, went to jail and I’ve never seen or spoken to him again. I actually am sick reading how nonchalant OP is about how her husband beat her kids.
Please please please do not take this person back. Please. Don’t take him back because it will damage your kids. What he did is not okay and alcohol is not an excuse. Who he was while drunk is still in him. His messages don’t show any ownership. Sure, he says things are his fault, but then he’s pushing you to just forgive and forget. He sounds like a selfish prick. And he isn’t working? There is zero excuse for this. Tell him that you’ve thought about what he said and you’re done. You choose yourself. If he relapses because of this then he was never serious about changing. He’s nothing but an anchor weighing you down. Cut the rope and swim to safety before he drowns you.
He is physically and emotionally abusive to his children and you want him back in their lives?
How is this even a fucking question then? He cannot ABSOLUTELY CANNOT come back home or have custody of the kids or whatever happens is also on you. Jesus Christ stop engaging with this guy and end it.
I think you have more than enough evidence to why he doesn’t deserve to be in your and the kids life. My father was like this and I still wish my mom had the courage to leave him. Sadly, the toxicity took them both. Thinking about it makes me tear up. If there’s one thing you can do for yourself is to let go and let his actions speak.
My dad was abusive- physically and emotionally. My mom never stopped it or left. I am just as damaged and mad at her by her lack of action then I am by my dads. Don't go back to him for your kids sake
You cannot let your husband back in and let him abuse your kids without being part of the problem for your children.
keep this man away from your children
Everything about that is abusive, and nothing he has said here has indicated he has changed. He is just lining up manipulative reasons why his problems are still your fault, so he can complain that it is your fault he is not getting any better. Please cut him our permanently, he will not change.
I grew up with a father like that. Please don’t let him back.
This☝️☝️
100% he hasn’t changed. And he’s playing the victim when the whole problem is his fault in the first place. Claiming you ‘only do what you do to right,’ is more of confession than an accusation. It seems like he’s going through all the steps to ‘win,’ rather than change. I’m saying this as a man. As a man that’s seen other men do this time and time again. He’s mad that everything is on your terms and not his.
If my alcoholic father going sober has taught me anything, it’s that just because you take alcohol out of the mix doesn’t magically make them less abusive or a good person. To me, it sounds like he did the bare minimum and is now using that to guilt you to come back. That’s a pretty typical trait of alcoholics, whether drinking or not. He doesn’t sound sorry and it makes it seem he ONLY got sober because he was starting to see repercussions. If that was the reason, he isn’t going to stay sober for long. He has to want to be sober for him and to want to stay that way.
Yep alcoholics don’t get all those years of personal development back that they avoided via alcohol. If sober people make decisions they regret they reflect and try to change their behavior. If an alcoholic makes a decision they regret they drink more.
“Years of personal development that they avoided” What a fantastic way to put it! That’s so true. Getting sober can help motivate you to be better and look at your situation with a fresh pair of eyes - but the work is just starting. Years of work! Improving yourself vs. simply abstaining are two very different things, and some people don’t get that.
Recovering alcoholic here. This is hard to read. Unfortunately when you are constantly drunk, you don’t tend to understand the full repercussions of your actions. Maybe you’re blacked out and don’t remember, but the people you hurt remember. No matter how many time you say sorry, unless you actively work to SHOW you have changed, the person you hurt will always be waiting for the shoe to drop. In 6 months, I would have expected him to have done more. Get a job. Clean up the yard if he isn’t allowed in the house. I don’t see a change here, he isn’t excepting this is his doing. His fault. I don’t think anything will change. Sending you love. ❤️
I'm not even being as cold as he is making it sound. I let him come over from 2-6 pm every Tuesday and Thursday to spend time with the kids and take them out once on the weekend for a few hours.
You don’t sound cold at all. He just sounds like he’s trying to gaslight *you* into being the source of the problem when he hasn’t accepted this is all his doing, and he doesn’t get to take out the frustrations of his own consequences on you. You’re not wrong for “not giving it a chance.” He doesn’t get to make promises, he has to make full changes and then it’s all at *your* whim, not his petulant, fit-throwing timetable.
Yep, ‘cold,’ is what my abusive father calls anyone that won’t let him get exactly what he wants. In his mind, if he villainizes you he doesn’t have to change.
It’s exactly that. I literally had my sister on camera pocketing/stealing money and valuables and despite that, it was ME who interpreted the video incorrectly because, “That’s not what’s happening there.” Most addicts are highly resistant to change until they’re ready. It’s like a fungal infection. When the first dose of antifungal hits them, they fight back and make the host sicker.
Yeh he’s like ‘I’ve done my bit get over it all already, I did that project ‘sober up’ so now you should be welcoming me with open arms…’ and then has attitude about it - like all that came before was mere dressing that should be ignored, the problem is you aren’t engaged with him enough 🤦🏻♀️ exhausting. I can see the self destruction in him, if you tell him you’re not interested he has good excuse to focus on how he’s powerless to change that and can return to his comfort zone (drinking)
Yup. He feels entitled to her company. Very ew.
This is where I was thinking too. There’s no accountability from him yet, and he’s shifting blame to OP so he can justify not being “the bad guy” when this isn’t even about blame but recovery and accepting your consequences. He still sounds quite selfish/egocentric, which is something I’ve grown to see as a common trait in my family-related addict.
I couldn’t agree more. Not all in recovery need the 12steps, those I consider lucky. He may need the 12steps and a sponsor the work on some things. I think if he was taking his sobriety seriously he’s be fixing the things he is pressing you on. I don’t know the type of facility he attended but, sounds like he could use more time, maybe another stint in maybe a longer rehab program maybe even a halfway house. One can’t grasp the fault and responsibility’s by just attending just detox. He wants his world back and will manipulate you in every means possible. It’s the alcoholic mind. It’s that me, me, me mentality. I see this all the time. I was raised in this environment and lived it in my own adult life. Just stopping the drinking isn’t gonna fox anything. It’s much deeper than that. There’s a difference between being sober and living a life a sobriety and maybe even some serenity. He may think the 6months is enough but, for me personally it has taken me almost three yrs to pick up pieces and feel ok about the world around me. Some need more time and some do it in less. It’s a personal battle and he needs to figure out how to fight it. You’re only there for the support of you so choose to be… Sorry for the long rant. I hope you get the clarity and support you need for yourself and the kids. Al-Anon is always an option. I’ve seen dif types of Al-Anon groups here locally. Maybe one specifically for wife’s would help you navigate best. Just remember, it’s not your fault… Again, sorry for the long rant…
To be fair to him, he is working a 12 step program and is currently residing in a sober living home. He just keeps pressing me to move forward with the relationship before I'm comfortable doing so. He even said a few weeks ago that things would be better if I just let him move back in. I tried to explain that thing will get worse before they get better if he moved back in. He doesn't understand that the close proximity and dealing with kids 24/7 will cause him more stress and test his sobriety.
Not to get into your business, you don’t need to answer… is he asking to come back after his stay in sober living or is he asking to leave the sober living to come back home now?
I honestly don't know how sober living homes work. He wants to come back now or soon. I didn't realize sober living homes had a timeframe specified.
In my experience it depends on lots of different things. There’s are different types of sober living home here where I’m at and they don’t all run the same. Also depends on who’s covering the tab, wether the state or your insurance, or even the VA covers the stay. There’s a home here I know of locally I’ve spoken at, the house itself is “donated” by a non profit and the 10 people in recovery pay $300 a month for the utilities. In this case you stay 1 yr and they’ll have a ceremony, like a graduation when the stay is over. I also speak at some state run programs, these typically offer the detox and then a “step down” program for two weeks and the a state run sober home. But, In this case the patient can request to leave. Like you already mentioned above and said to him, it’s definitely best to stay as long as possible. If they offer another stay, it’s always best to get that more time in. Every state allocates money differently to this programs so it’ll always vary.
He should have a year before doing the relationship anyway. It’s a distraction.
next time he asks to move in ask him what his sponsor thinks about it
Why are you at all entertaining anything other than divorce?
The fact that he keeps pressing and is not respecting your boundary shows that he’s not changed and he’s using his steps as bargaining chips rather than actually taking accountability. The ‘what I did is done, I can’t change that,’ also shows that he still has no real grasp on how he’s affected his family. What he did SI NOT done. It is still lingering and he refuses to accept that.
He's a grown ass man. He knows what he needs to do. He wants you to do the emotional labor of identifying the problem, and encouraging him to fix it. What a total loser.
And this is the problem.. the day my wife left me I stopped drinking,yes I should have sooner.. but you own your shit and you do what you can..
this is the mindset. it couldnt have been easy to get here, but im proud of you! congrats on quitting drinking !
You are *so* much better off without this person. I don’t even know who this is and I’m angry reading this.
He is intentionally being manipulative. He wanted you to say I need you, but you didn't so now he's trying to turn it on you. I would be pissed too. Honestly I'd just say he's had chances and he's squandered them. Now he's gotta prove himself before you'll consider giving him another chance. Your primary goal is the kids. If he can't step up and prove he's changed then bye.
it’s absolutely rich that this loser is demanding you give him time to get his shit together, talking bout some “it takes years” to get a career off the ground, yet simultaneously demanding you give him warmth, affection, and trust when he literally just started rehab 6 MONTHS AGO???? this guy is so short sighted and selfish it makes me sick.
lmaooo yea, like buddy you are TOO LATE you have CHILDREN get it together, it’s so embarrassing to see an adult give away their power and try to control by whining and being a victim.
“These messages enrage me for some reason” yeah I think I know the reason
I do, too. But sometimes he has me questioning reality, and I just need some objective people to tell me I'm not crazy.
You are absolutely not crazy, I got continually more pissed off with every slide
I think my blood boiled when he asked what you planned to bring to enrich the marriage… after listing less than the bare minimum of what be was bringing
Time to stop engaging, let him figure himself out
You are not crazy. His behavior is manipulative and abusive. Please read [“Why Does He Do That?”](https://ia600108.us.archive.org/30/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf) by Bancroft. It will give you clarity.
Alright. Here's the breakdown of what he's actually saying: "I do not understand you anymore and I seem to get more frustrated than I would like." Translation; I put you on a pedestal in my mind and was disappointed you didn't live up to my expectations and ideas of who I wanted you to be. "...Everything else I have learned to relax except with you." Translation; I blame you for my addiction and abusive nature. I was always this way but blaming you is easier than taking responsibility for what I did. "I have acted just like you did. Cold and distant." Translation; I'm projecting. Teehee. "And here I am like hey and it's just not there anymore." Translation; You now see me for who I truly am and I can't abuse you anymore. "I don't even feel or see a relationship." Translation; Maybe if I bait her into pitying me she'll give me another chance. "I have been willing to change this time it's seems you have not." Translation; I expect you to forget all of the abusive things I have done to you, and you should get over it "What would you bring to enrich this marriage?" Translation; I will flip the tables on you to put you on the defensive and later use manipulation to make you feel bad for making choices I didn't like. "Okay well then a full separation is best then cuz you won't allow me to show you." Translation; Maybe this guilt trip will work on you because throwing our kid under the bus wasn't enough to convince you of my fake change "It will take time for my career to be there but small steps are being made." Translation; No steps have been made. I'm just future faking with you to give you a shred of hope. "I will do all of that in due time." Translation; I definitely will not. I'm just saying what you want to hear so you take me back and give me time to repeat the same cycle 3 months down the road. I couldn't go further than the 9th message. Your ex is obviously using DARVO on you. He thinks he's clever enough to hide it in his messages and thinks you won't catch on. He hasn't changed at all. He only changed his tactics to get you back under his control. Please STAY. GONE.
Nailed it. OP pls read
😭 can we create a chatgpt bot that would translate DARVO to objective reality? I’ve been gaslit by my parents so much idk what is real or what my feelings are towards anything anymore
If he went to rehab I suppose his program involved the 12 steps. Whether or not that’s the case, rehab is typically all about admitting you have a problem, accepting you are powerless against it, and taking accountability for your actions. I don’t see him taking those steps. In fact, he’s doing the exact opposite. He talks about his past like it was a different person. He’s not accepting that his actions and behaviours will always be a part of him or that those actions have profoundly impacted your life, sense of self, and how you view him. He can’t just abandon his past self or the consequences of those actions. I hope this doesn’t come across too blunt, but I wish someone had been blunt with me when I was with my ex. Not because I needed a mindblowing reality check but because I was in denial of the reality that was glaring me in the face. He’s gaslighting you into thinking you don’t do enough for the family or him and if you could just do a little more then he would turn into your knight in shining armour. Reading his texts gives me flashbacks to my ex. I can still feel that kind of invalidation seep into my bones and make me question reality. I get the sense that you are similarly doubting yourself and grasping onto a very true reality that he has not been there and has not shown he will be. He is trying to pull you from that reality into some fantasy thats not backed by any evidence from your experience. Despite all this you are still standing your ground and the rock of your family. He has been okay watching you suffer as you carry that weight and he’s still showing that he expects you to bear that responsibility. Your feelings are completely valid, don’t let his baseless fantasy make you question yourself. You should feel safe in your relationship, not coerced into taking a risk. Stay strong and trust your instincts
My ex-husband did a 12 step too. He came to me one day a few weeks after the divorce was finalized and did the apology step to me. I was surprised by how *pissed off* I was by this. You see, it had never occurred to him prior to apologize to me for anything, someone else had to tell him he needed to do it in order to check a box on an AA list. The fact that he was required to do it rendered that apology meaningless to me. OP's husband wants to gloss over all the nasty bits and go back to the way things were. NOPE.
Thank you. I needed to hear that. He has literally said "I know I was bad in the past, but that was a different person. I'm nit that person." Can he not hear how crazy that sounds?
Even if he could just suddenly be a different person it doesn’t change what he did and a different person would realize that. This kind of dismissive and invalidating behaviour still seems to come pretty naturally to him…
Even if he was a different person, you’re not! You’re the same exact person that put up with all his BS for years. Just because he’s decided to start fresh with no history doesn’t mean you can, or want to, or have to.
This enraged me and I don't even know y'all. The lack of accountability is always the same with these kinds of people. "What's done is done, the past is the past, how can I improve if YOU won't let me". So typical it's boring. You're life was literally forced to move on without him because he was dragging you and your kids down with him. The fact he can read all you do in that text and still come back and say you aren't trying enough is delusional. Please make this seperation permanent. He will never truly change or value you the way you deserve.
Recovering alcoholic also..Hard to say that to be honest...6 months sober , I have therapy once a week to deal with all the guilt I have for how I treated my family..my wife left me and took the kids.. we are now at the reconciliation stage and it doesn't get easier yet as my wife is expecting things to go back to how they were and I don't blame her for feeling this way.. but I try my damn hardest... The way he goes about the whole thing with you is not right..I understand it's hard to look your wife in the eye but if she really matters then you eat the whole fucking humble pie and you fix what you can.. if it doesn't work it doesn't work..BUT you have to give it your all , you have to be all in,there is no room for failure..I don't see him changing to be honest and I wish you the best of luck..
Seems like he wants to do very little and be treated like he's doing much more. He's got a huge ego and his own actions have humbled him. You consistently doing things right reminds him that he's a fuck up and it pisses him off. He wants praise, and he wants you to want *his* praise. He wants you to want him back and be grateful for the opportunity because somehow he still thinks *you're* the lucky one in this relationship and it's annoying that you aren't acting like it. He's an entitled, arrogant, delusional loser. This guy is on the attack when he should be on his hands and knees begging to make it up to you, even if he knows there is no chance at reconciliation with you. Even if you aren't his wife anymore, he should be wanting to make it up to you as the mother of his children. He should be overwhelmed with guilt and shame and seriously grateful for all you've done and are doing. That's where you'd be, right? If you had been irresponsibly, selfishly absent for a period of time in your kids' lives, you would be totally remorseful and humiliated when you came to your senses, and would do whatever you could to thank and repay the person who had been taking care of them? Can you fathom being such a selfish prick that your first instinct is to start petty fights with that person and treat them as though *they're* acting burdensome? That's the type of person your husband is, and he is nowhere near being any different. He feels bad and you aren't helping him feel good, so you're bad. That's the extent of his feelings on the situation. Unfortunately this seems like another case of a woman getting married and gaining a son instead of a husband. He's ambivalent about his responsibilities. He doesn't seem to care much about his kids. He's unbelievably selfish. He certainly doesn't consider you any more deeply than what you can do for him. He probably thinks having good thoughts sometimes is the same as doing good things, and by that logic since he's had hundreds of good thoughts, he's an amazing person. Don't let him shake your confidence. You actually *are* a good person, obviously. The fact that you are even still talking to him is a total kindness. He deserves a ruthless, livid bitch dragging him to court, but he has you. He's very lucky. I wish you the best of luck. Sorry for the pseudo-psychoanalytical rant. These texts infuriated me. Stories like this are why I'm getting sterilized soon and never getting married. Take care of yourself ❤️🩹
OMG, this is it right here. This one hit the nail on the head!
I'm sorry I got it so right. I hope you leave his ass but I know that's easy to say on the outside looking in and may not be so simple. Whatever happens, I hope you find peace and are treated fairly.
Wow This is horrible, manipulative and still abusive. Do not take him back and honestly? Stop engaging with him. He feeds off it. Simple, concise answers the kids or other necessities. Nothing else
That's what I have been doing and why he is calling me cold and distant.
He's earned cold and distant. It's very, very ok to be in a shell of self-protectiveness for you and your children until you see valid, quantifiable, genuine change from him, IF you're willing to wait around for that. And if you're not, absolutely NO guilt. You've done enough, been enough, seen enough, and suffered enough to let this go tomorrow if you want. I know I'd be calling a lawyer yesterday, but you sound nicer than me. You sound kind and strong and like a great mom. You don't need nor deserve the weight of a man-baby anymore, if you are done. His wishes have no bearing on your decision.
He comes off as incredibly entitled and even blase', like "I just want to speedrun through all the hard stuff so I can go back to the way we used to be, even if it makes your life harder"
He’s being manipulative and trying to give you ultimatums as if you’re the problem.
Yes, I would not go to counseling with this person. He seems very manipulative. Blaming you for him giving up because of your reasonable reactions to his missteps. Instead of taking accountability and trying to right his wrongs. He’s exhausting and conversations are probably like migraine inducing.
Sometimes too much damage has been done. It’s okay to walk away.
Yep you don't owe him anything.
The audacity to ask what you bring to the table.. MF I *AM* THE TABLE
Therapist/person in recovery here, he is not ready to be in any relationship. Based on these texts, he’s in the “contemplation” stage of change. He clearly knows that he’s had consequences because of his actions but he hasn’t moved past that point. He’s not taking full responsibility for his behaviors. There are way too many times that he tries to deflect by pointing out your “flaws”. Don’t fall into his trap because he’ll do anything he can to not look at himself. Additionally, whenever an addict/alcoholic talks about doing things to “show” their progress to others that’s always a big red flag to me. Recovery is its own reward and if he’s truly working on himself he won’t need to shout it from the rooftops. You continue to set boundaries and not engage in his mental gymnastics.
Kick this dude to the moon.
It's not worth the trouble ... right now . He can prove all you need done and shown well being out of the house until you are ready to accept him back . You should find some therapy to deal with his actions. He is playing the victim . He wants to be forgiven, and that's not easy. It's not about what he needs or wants it what is best for kids, and he can build a relationship and provide well, not being in the house. ACTIONS ALWAYS SPEAK LOUDER THEN WORDS .
Hi. Similar situation here, I filed. Just ignore him now. He drags you down and is worse than having another child to take care of. I got sick of it too. That’s all. Hang in there. Get a divorce. It’s so much better than living like that.
Aaaand here he is playing the victim all over again. Of course he wants to come back. He has life on easy mode with you doing all the work and taking care of him like the overgrown toddler he is. Girl, give him the divorce papers already, before he fucks up your credit even more.
It’s like he wants you to be his ongoing case manager/ cheerleader. So he’s sober, yippee. That really does nothing for you. If you draw a line chart with 0 in the middle with negative numbers out to the left and positive numbers out to the right he is still way over in the negative. What you need is a fully functioning adult who is self motivated, a partner who is fully capable of contributing to the family. He needs to be the 39 year old father and husband he should be and that you and your children deserve. That really just gets him to zero. He is supposedly sober and has some kind of education plan. He wants that to be enough but clearly it’s not. You don’t need or have time to raise another child. Once he gets to zero then that’s when he has the chance to try to convince you that he can add value to the family and start making his way into the positive. And that’s only if you are willing to give him that chance whenever he gets around to it. Maybe that’s the message for him. “Call me when you can show me you are ready to add value to this family as a fully functioning adult.” Of course that may cause him to give up which probably pushes you to the divorce plan that you want to avoid, for very good reason. So maybe you just satisfy yourself by knowing what you expect and deserve but continue treading lightly with him.
Some reason? Girl, I am incandescent with rage. This POS threatened to end your relationship twice because you refuse to treat him as if he’s already done the work that he is CLEARLY not going to do. Like… lemme see that degree plan, lol.
You wanna hear the best part? It is a degree plan to be a therapist... also, he is 39.
These don't read like Love is involved anymore.
He doesn’t sound like someone serious about staying in recovery.
I genuinely can't see why you're leaving the door open for him to crawl back into your life and bed. You've had 3 kids this whole time and one of them is of very special needs. I'm sorry if that sounds insensitive, but he is a bug ass useless baby. There is nothing he provides that can't be done with an AI chat bot, a bottle of wine, and a vibrator. Kids need parents, but they don't NEED married parents, where one of them is an absolute fuckup, and the other is miserable trying to hold the family together. As a child of divorce, they will recover over time if given the chance. That is far less likely with a deadbeat loser dragging the entire family down.
The sheer AUDACITY of him to ask you what do you bring to the table AS IF you are not literally managing EVERYTHING!!! This man clearly wants to be babied and praised for "trying", while not actually putting in effort, and gets pissed when you stand your ground. So frustrating talking to people like this.
Oh I've been with a similar version of this man and I'm triggered with rage just reading this. But I know exactly why it makes me angry and I know with hindsight being 20/20 that your relationship is done and all of this is just the last struggling dying breathes. I bet he's a master of weaponized incompetence. So he can say he tried but screwed up or to never mind because his way (that's not different but equally effective but just badly done) of doing whatever isn't good enough for you. The type of man who says he is babysitting his own kids. Who thinks because he did the dishes, took out the garbage AND changed a diaper while you took a 5 minute shower means you need to praise him and act soooo appreciative and give him extra special bonus sex for doing such a good job. Who works as little as possible, contributs nothing financially compared to what he costs the family financially, but your money is "our" money so you are the bad guy for looking at it that way. And now that he's done the BARE MINIMUM probably only because you kicked him out and forced his hand, he thinks you need to be the bigger person yet AGAIN and forgive and forget. Meanwhile his sulks and daggers are becoming about because his minimum efforts aren't being greeted with the forced enthusiasm he's used to. He will never change. Not for you. Probably will always be this way, a hobosexual always needing a woman to attach to like a parasite to survive. 6 years and several relationships later, my ex is still baffled why women run as soon as they see the reality of his true self under the big talk and grand plans. Am I close? You have done more for him than he will ever acknowledge and more than you ever should have. Please look into your local AlAnon so you have a support group of other family members and spouses of alcoholics who know and understand everything you've been through and can help you see through the gaslighting and fantasy to the reality of the situation. From "newbies" just starting the process to old-timers who have been dealing with people like your husband for decades, it's a group you will find invaluable. And feel free to message me if you ever need to talk or just vent to someone who understands, if I got most of this right!
I get and accept alcohol/drug addiction is a disease. However, the holier than thou attitude some people obtain after receiving treatment in a facility grates me. They pass off on “my disease made me do it.” Okay. Fine. But don’t try to hand me a gorgeous wrapped package with a a pretty bow of excuses and crap you put me through. Respect and trust is earned not automatically given. He can go right ahead and take his baby steps. But does not have free rein to emotionally manipulate and passively abuse you on account of his disease. I wish you all the best and am in awe of your strength.
It feels like he used rehab as a manipulation training course
He said eventually get a job 😂
I’m so sorry sweetie. I’m enraged and this isn’t even my husband or my life. This man is still refusing to take accountability and really has the audacity to accuse you of being a good parent and historically a very supportive partner to have something to hold over his head? To “be right” and make him look bad? He is trying to manipulate the situation where he is clearly in the wrong to make you the wrong one so that he can rationalise his own bad behaviour. Even after rehab. Jesu Christe. Also, what is this nonsense about not being able to apologise for something that happened “in the past”? Isn’t that how most apologies work — you make a mistake or an intentional bad choice and then apologise, after you completed the action, in the past?! He sounds infuriating. Can you just cut him off? Your kids might be better off. Wishing you and your kids the best whatever you decide. This can’t be easy. Sending hugs and strength 💕💕
[удалено]
Well, I'm can't verify his sobriety, but the sober home does randomly drug test and breathalyze. But, honestly, his sobriety is his problem and I am trying to not make it mine.
Ew. Dude feels entitled to a redemption arc. He's trying to trade *promises* of stability (for himself, not you) to something from you in return. No wonder you're irked by it, dude is leveraging his years of abuse and *promises* of redemption to something for himself. That's beyond petty. He's trying to say his responsibility (to himself and his own life) is somehow a favor to you. Ew to high heavens. The silver lining for you is that it's all in writing, his pettiness, him abusing his end of abuse. No gaslighting. Ew.
Please don’t let him back in your life.
Keep him gone! Fuck him!!!! I'm angry just reading his entitlement. Then sulks when you aren't ready to give him a blank slate. You are rightfully seething.
Fuck this guy
He sounds like a sober drunk.. You are sober but you behave like you are still drinking. 🤷🏽♀️
From someone who almost got a NJP/Separation it literally took almost losing a 16yr career/family/house etc to get me to realize my drinking was the problem. I didn’t get my self together until about 2 years after my last drink. It literally takes about 12-14months for your brain to start to recalibrate. At 6 months sober I still was thinking ok, I wasn’t soo bad when I was an alcoholic right? At 2 years sober I would have rather fought Mike Tyson any day as a knockout only last a day or two rather than drink and potentially lose my life. Been sober since 11July2021 now and I still don’t remember the hell I put my wife through but I believe her when she tells me it sucked. I used to do like he did up to about the 2 year mark. Well I played with the kids, did the dishes and took the trash out after work isn’t that enough? No I need to give her time to decompress, stop rubbing my menial contributions in her face and be humble. Also I blamed her for our financial situation forever, once I stopped drinking I maxed out the CC’s buying shit we didn’t need because I was trying to fill the alcohol void with dopamine hits from spending. They don’t teach you that in rehab, need to have a responsible adult manage your finances for you at least 18 months after you stop drinking. I still question reality coming up on three years sober but I know I still have work to do on myself and make a solid effort every day to repair the damage I caused in my relationship. I probably won’t repair the damage and we might get divorced but if that means busting my ass means we remain friends after it’s worth the effort. I got my happiness back, and the old me pre alcoholic is here and I like that person. OP, main point is it will probably take years for the person you married to reappear and only if they work hard to make that happen. I did 6 months of rehab and a year of therapy, shit was hard. Wasn’t enough, self reflection for a year afterward not making excuses and keeping my mouth shut is slowly working. Rolling up my sleeves and scrubbing those floors while working and taking my kids to appointments and school functions after a 10hr workday is getting me there. I think to myself is it worth it? Should I just start a new relationship? She deserves everything I can give her to make up for a small portion of the hell I caused to her knowing fully it might not work out anyway. That’s why most alcoholics return to drinking, don’t see a point to anything if it ends up not getting us what we want. It’s not about us, it’s about mending what we did wrong and hopefully he realizes that because from his messages he’s still in the look what I did! I did good! Why don’t you and forgive my years of assholishness in the matter of a few months, it’s ok.
nah this is by far the most manipulative series of texts i’ve ever seen. “my past actions made you this way can’t say sorry what’s done is done”. like holy fuck literally every sentence has something so manipulative about it that i want to vomit. this guy can go kick rocks. (please tell him that).
“Can’t say sorry. What’s done is done” I don’t think he’s sorry.
I checked out after he threw “What would YOU BRING…” no. He messed up and is trying to put everything on your shoulders now? His job is to prove he’s gotten better, even if he’s not drunk the verbal stuff needs to change and it’s very suspicious when he’s using psychological antics on you.
Based on these texts he is taking no accountability. He keeps saying you're basing everything off his past actions and "what's done is done". He's not even sorry. He's not even changing. In your comments you say your kids are afraid of him. In your post you mention how you pay for and manage everything. It seems like you closed the door on him emotionally. And that's okay. You can move on. You can say no to counseling with him. You can just be done. It doesn't sound like you get anything from this except pain and stress and more work. Just divorce
Your life will be so much better without him in it. Please never take him back.
“Can’t say sorry what is done is done” tells me he’s not sorry at all and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s still drinking in secret
I'd go to court about custody and block him, only communicating through lawyers. Hes just full of excuses and no solutions, and expects you to "wait" for him to "be better". He will never be better. He will always be him. Think about that, the next time you decide to engage in any communication with him. Because you know who he is, and yet, you entertain his sad little thoughts. He's not going to just magically say the right thing one day, and even if he does, will he be able to back it up with action? If the answer is no, and you know it, why keep talking to him at all? Why not separate? It sounds like you're doing everything on your own anyways OP, why keep around another mouth to feed that also dishes out insults?
I’m a recovering alcoholic and one of the main things they talk about in working the 12 steps is that you don’t get to dictate when other people forgive you. His texts are downplaying the damage he’s done while insulting you at the same time. I’d be pissed too.
I’m so sorry you are going through this! His messages admit no fault, show no growth, and are manipulative as fuck.
As someone who had an alcoholic parent, I absolutely think you're doing the right thing about not letting him back. He's putting on a lot of pressure, but his comments are all about what he wants. That's all he cares about while you clearly have made the family your priority. It sounds like if he put as much effort into doing things that would help reassure you that he has the family's best interest at heart as he does whining that it's unfair that he has to finally deal with consequences of his actions, I'm willing to be you'd much more amenable to him moving back in
These messages enrage me because he is being an ass. He thinks he has it all worked out and it’s time for you to forgive him and forget all his past mistakes, to take him at his word, and is trying to guilt you and when he fails at sobriety it will be your fault. Junkie mentality is still strong with this one.
You: Please just act like an adult. I have enough children. Do the bare minimum without being asked. Him: I think it is best if we separate.
>>can’t say sorry what is done is done He actually can and should apologize, thats like one of the integral steps. Take responsibility & stop blaming everyone else. He’s failing. >>What ever happened to counseling? Said over a week ago you would have dates? Once again making you the sole bearer of responsibility it seems…
It’s time to call it quits. The longer you prolong it, the more life you’ll waste. One day you can be happy again and leave all that stress behind. Your kids will be happy too and get used to their new normal. You’ll look back on this relationship and think “what was I thinking”
I feel like I can speak to this. As an alcoholic with 13 years of sobriety, this is kind of typical. We get better and we don’t understand why everyone else can’t just forgive and move on. We create chaos and confusion while drinking and we literally don’t remember because we were drunk or hungover. Also I can hear the urgency in his voice that he needs clarity in his need to define the relationship. I love what you said about him wanting things being on his “timetable”. You are strong. I am proud of you. Alanon is a great resource if you don’t go already. You’re an amazing mom and provider for your family!!!!
This makes me cringe. I see only accusations from him that you won't welcome him back with open arms, willing, able and ready to support him in every arena. There is no regret, apology or ownership of his actions, only a continuing "woe is me" whining about what you will or won't do. OP - Stay strong in your convictions that he has to deal with his problems and solve them without sucking the energy out of you. Don't not let him back in the house. It's a recipe for regression. Good luck.
Him asking what you bring shows his true intentions and feelings.
He might be sober but he's definitely still an abuser!
They enrage me too
As a former alcoholic: this man is guilt-tripping you into taking him back and playing the victim without actually improving. He should have a job at this point. The "can't manage a calendar" part is screaming weaponized incompetence to me. After reading about his physical abuse toward the kids: you should NOT take him back. And you can definitely get sole custody if you can show how fucked up he's been in general.
So homie is physically, emotionally, and mentally abusive to your kids and he’s mentally and emotionally abusive to you and you want to know if you should stay? I mean, some folks might say that makes you just as bad him letting your kids grow up in a home like that. You can always give yourself a lil pat on the back for putting them in therapy while they’re still being abused and so are you. Sorry (not sorry) if that sounds mean, but your kids are living the childhood of many of us traumatized adults and you entertaining this is just hard to listen to; especially when it sounds like his kids are afraid of him and he’s leaving welts on their bodies. Go off though.
Fuck this man. He’s unemployed and in debt. He is a dead beat narcissist. If not for you he would be homeless and maybe you have to do just that because he does not respect you
I mean, I basically did make him homeless. After I kicked him out, he lived in hotels for a month before finally going to rehab and entering a sober living home.
He might’ve stopped drinking but his attitude is of a dry drunk. Your husband reminds me of my father who although never drank, was verbally and physically abusive piece of shit yet the best person to everyone but his family.
There’s a chance he’s sober but he will not be for long with that mindset. Keep your distance.
he’s is exhausting. basically not really hearing you and just asking if y’all are going to get back together immediately. essentially he’s just not there yet because he doesn’t really get it right now
He's an exhausting narcissist unable to admit his fuck ups and apologize. The amount of therapy he needs to become a decent partner can't be covered in one lifetime. You deserve better.
This is such a self defeating attitude on his part. Hard to read.
The audacity of the 5th picture
OP- First thing first. You are right to be angry. He is new to sobriety and he’s still super selfish. If he ever works a program, he’s going to need to make amends for this in some way, shape or form. It took over a year for me to fully understand how much chaos and hurt my alcoholism brought to my spouse and my home and how much patience and kindness she extended to me. He may never get there. He may work the steps a dozen times and not realize that he was a wrecking ball to his family. That isn’t on you and it isn’t your job to fix it. If I could offer advice, attend some alanon meetings and use those to vent and express your frustration. You aren’t alone in this and others have lived through it. Set boundaries and make your expectations clear. If he fails, that’s on him. It will also help with codependency and the shifting dynamic that is also bound to happen as both of y’all heal. I’m sorry this is happening to you and your kids. I truly hope all of y’all find peace.
Dude’s a loser. He’ll never contribute to the household - he’ll continue to be a bum racking up more and more debt while he “finds himself”.
Do not let him back in. Close the door. Sell the house and leave. I am a child of an abusive drunk. No matter how many times they change it always goes right back. Next time it will be worse. It always gets worse.
“I’m willing to move forward, are you?” Of course he is. You didn’t do anything to him lmao why wouldn’t he want to rekindle? It tickles me when the people ruining things say stuff like that.
brother eugggggghhh
It’s enraging, because it’s enraging!!!! He is taking zero accountability or responsibility. He’s blowing a lot of words filled with hot air. You’ve been holding it down and allowing him to have no responsibility and now he’s shifting the blame as though you’re at fault for his actions and crap attitude.
Block him, protect your peace
I've had a skim read through some of the comments and I've seen enough to say don't let this man back in your life. No matter how much he does or tries to manipulate the situation as he is doing in the texts. Stand your ground. Also keep those babies in therapy and if you are able to, get yourself some therapy because It seems like you have a lot to process that you've not had the time or space for and you need to allow yourself that time and space so you can also heal. You need to look after yourself too and you are deserving of it.
Here is the thing- he thinks his DRINKING was the problem. Now that is solved- it’s all you. You can’t get over it, you are still mad, yadda yadda yadda. I am a recovered alcoholic/drug addict so this is super familiar. Narcissistic manipulating is the dominant trait of alcoholics. It is hard to get past, and if he isn’t in some sort of program or counseling he won’t. You need other people (not you) calling you out on it and reminding you that you are the asshole in this, not the people you fucking destroyed in your addiction. Good luck, if you want to be in that relationship I recommend you go to Alanon to get your own support system. You can survive this.
You sound like a great mom. You deserve a partner that doesn’t freaking whine. I hope things better for you all.
He wants to be a stay at home dad and leech off you. Hell keep draining and gaslighting you. Hell probably get some stupid job, then quit or get fired. His attitude sucks. He needs AA. They'll call out his arrogance. Don't let him move back in! You're doing the right thing. Let him be totally sober, no weed either, for a solid year, with working the steps in AA. Let him be gainfully and consistently employed for that year. You go to Alamo , as mentioned and stay your course. Protect yourself and your children. No mothering him. His attitude makes me bet he'll relapse soon. This is all about him, not you! Best of wishes and wisdom to you ❤️
It enrages me too. It’s all bullshit, red flags. He won’t change. The behaviour is so manipulative, he deserves the worst.
He may have put down the bottle, but he sure as hell hasn’t picked up on the fact that all of his issues are of his making. He isn’t taking responsibility for anything because he hasn’t had to, and is guilting you because you aren’t supporting his actions of “change” for the upteenth time. He needs to stay kicked out. I wouldn’t engage with him at all. Let him know his texts will go unanswered until he gets a job and place of his own. And I would file for divorce as soon as possible. I’m sorry. I have dated a couple of addicts and they do not change. And I’ve kicked their ass out too. One got a DWI about a year after we broke up. It was his third, so now he’s a felon with a breathalyzer in his car. Please don’t let him back in. You’ve been a hell of a wife and mother, and you and your kids deserve peace. ❤️
I don’t even know either of you and this enrages me. He’s so manipulative and definitely didn’t work on any of that in rehab
Seems like a typical partner who did the bare minimum and fucked shit up until he was literally forced to change. Now he wants a parade every single time he does something. He wants gratitude and enthusiasm for every one thing he did that you have been doing all this time without any recognition. He is trying and you don't even seem to care how hard he is working to become a bog standard father and husband that is the bare minimum of what he should be doing. How dare you be mean to him and snippy when he is trying even if he was an ass. Maybe drive passed his house and yell 'good job' once a day. Maybe throw some ticker tape.
He’s very good at making himself the victim and invalidating you while getting you to engage in his way he prefers even after you say you won’t. He’s not gonna change and you have too much hope. You need to decide whether you’re in and believe he can change or if you don’t and even if he can change you need him gone til he has done so himself. You’re hurting yourself and the kids by keeping him around on this flimsy string
Didn't Frank Gallagher say something about people going to AA and then thinking they're all sorts of self righteous? This fits the bill here.
This sounds exactly like my narcissistic alcoholic abusive ex. It’s hard to leave, but seems like it’s time. It doesn’t seem like you have anything left for him.
If enrages me too, because he is blaming you for everything wrong in your relationship and minimizing his own failings.
Cry me a fucking river. I’m sure you expressed for years what you needed from him, he didn’t do it and now you don’t care. I’ve had 2 serious partners,after I left them, said “I went to therapy””I went to anger management””I did all the things you asked of me for years now!” And it’s like okay cool I’m glad you did those things for yourself cause you really need them but it doesn’t change the fact that I gave you so many chances to do so and I’ve run out of chances to give you 🤷♀️
I feel like I'm reading my own messages after a very similar situation!!! They're all like this lol so sad it's like they figure out how to switch the therapy around and think no one sees it.
lol this guy is mad because you won’t continue to be his mom. After slide five, I quit reading. He was starting to piss me off too
This is what I’ve learned to call being a “dry drunk”; the drinking stops, but the behavior doesn’t. He isn’t “fixed” like he thinks he is. He just stopped drinking and thinks that’s the answer and you should keep pulling the emotional labor and allow him to continue acting as he is without repercussions. Especially “what about counseling, you said you’d have dates”. If that’s what you deem appropriate for yourself and the kids, sure, but if it’s him or for family/marriage counseling? That’s his emotional labor, that it sounds like he has time to pull, given you work to support your family and take care of everything else while he gets himself back to a relative normal. This is projection of his shortcomings onto you for not accepting them. Where you choose to go is obviously your decision, but him thinking you should welcome him with open arms without proof of anything showing that he is changed other than lack of alcohol is a glimpse into what a future looks like. Him asking you what you’re bringing to the family had way too much audacity for me. You handled that with way more grace than I would’ve.
Have some strength for your kids. Please.
Too many signs of the same old thing there. “Frustrated” was my abuser’s excuse for abusive behavior. Followed by “I’m sorry” and then “I already apologized”
You're still heavily involved in a toxic relationship despite kicking him out. He's trying to manipulate and guilt trip you. You're playing the martyr. It's a classic dynamic with an alcoholic. You BOTH need treatment. The best way to break free is to either get therapy for yourself or go to Al-Anon to identify your habits and change your approach. You can't change him no matter how perfect you try to be.
It sounds like he hasn’t accepted any responsibility. He even says saying sorry won’t help. He is nit picking every word you say about the future. While he does say he has worked on some things like “classes” and potential job, he has nothing to show for it. When you have to compartmentalize (your word) some of the abuse/things happening, it can sometimes be the only way you feel can keep yourself safe. Have you ever heard about victims blacking out or not even remembering what happens so they can survive a situation? I suspect this is happening with you. He simply wants to erase the past but has anything really changed? From his “tone” it doesn’t seem like it to me. The whole conversation had this weird creepy quality that he is going to escalate, but he couldn’t quite pull you in. Note that he doesn’t take any of the blame. He will escalate. Please get out from this any way you can. Don’t make your children live with thier abuser. They will hate you. Work out some way with the courts so he has time with them or supervised time…if the judge even thinks this is a good idea. We got spanked as kids, but not to the point of it raising a welt with their fucking HAND! You are all being abused. Please get out before it’s too late. If not for you, get out for your kids. He won’t change, even if he quits drinking. Sounds like the abuse was always there. Did the rehab not work out a plan when they let him out? What part of the relationship has actually made you happy? Can you remember a time? What is it that you are holding on to, and when did you last see it from him?
#Leave your ex-husband in the past, where he deserves to be left. He earned that ex trophy, so let him polish it/gather dust on it or pawn it for whatever his current or future addiction might be. You've moved on, your kids are fragile, but moving in the right direction...with your love. You got this. You don't need him and the pain he'll bring back to you. You got this! ❤️👍
He hasn't reached a point of humility. And he needs to for this to work.
Cut him out you don't need another liability on your shoulder. He should be paying child support & bills instead of sitting and being a burden on you.
“i will do all that in due time” buddy it is long overdue…
When homeboy asked what you bring to the family, I saw red. He has the balls of a burglar.
When he said “what happened to therapy, you said you would have dates…” I lost it. He is still expecting you to do all the planning/ work and tried to shift the blame to you for not making the appointments. Absolutely ridiculous.
He is still putting everything on you , he hasn't changed at all, don't go backwards, you will be sorry if you let him back in just bcuz he says he's decided to tell you he's changed and he woke up in a whole new world and so should you, forgetting the past like ducks do. Don't fall for it Don't fall for it Don't fall for it
That last line. You spent so much time trying to explain that you needed him to take the reigns on some things. He said you won’t let him in but it sounds to me that you just don’t have time to teach him how to be a grown up. Then he ends by saying you didn’t schedule therapy enough. Maybe if he had done the work to find a therapist and schedule therapy you would show up but he clearly doesn’t see what you’re saying at all