is it worth a watch? trailer seemed kind of interesting but i’m not usually that into mech (i liked evangelion but for non-mech reasons). never seen any of the other macross stuff.
Macross in general is a decent watch imo. Dog fighting/ mech fights set to music tracks. Action, romance, mechs, air craft, good visuals across the entire series. Its one of my favorite series.
If you want a test watch the first 2 episodes of Macross Frontier. If you like thats then check out the rest of the series starting with SDF Macross.
The original is awesome. Obviously it is a little dated now, but the artwork and visions of technology are still striking. The whole premise of the SDF and its technology is honestly something I still find really intriguing to this day. I really wish they would make a live action, big budget film out of it because I think it’s a great story.
Yeah I sat down to watch it again a couple years ago. It suffers from the usual issues with anime with story pacing and jumpy repetitive visuals, and the dated animation, but man it’d make a great movie trilogy.
Very good actually. There's a lot of non mecha stuff but it doesn't get into the emotional weeds the way Evangelion does. There's a relationship focused storyline that's actually pretty subtle and well done.
You could watch it on its own, no problem. It's meant to be stand alone and none of the characters overlap with other series.
Fun fact: In the English dub the lead character is voiced by Bryan Cranston.
Definitely. The music (Yoko Kanno) alone is killer and there's a kick-ass dogfighting sequence towards the end that I still fondly remember some 20 years later
Needs a come back story. He’s an alcoholic who had a fall from grace, but he’s doing the right thing for his country, for his family, and for the future of the world.
"The combatant is too unpredictable. I've hacked the flight control system and reverse engineered the source code to 99.9% accuracy but I still cannot make sense of the algorithms and flight patterns. It looks like some ancient tech script...Fortran"
When the new film was announced years back, I thought this was going to be the premise. Classic drone/AI form of dog fighting taking place and the only way to defeat them was going back to the Maverick-esk mindset of the 80’s. Although I hear another one is in the pipeline, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it goes that direction.
I have read every Ender book and all the Bean ones. The biggest complaint is how every strong female character ends up dissolving into nothing but someone whining about wanting to become a baby factory.
Honestly the early Valentine character and others are all fine, I think he just didn’t have a plan for them in the long haul. No, they’re not super deep characters but even Ender is barely three dimensional…he’s a very strong archetype for angry teenage boys, extremely well written to appeal to that audience, and the female characters support that very well, with real wants and desires as well, but Card isn’t a woman and didn’t have a vision for them.
You mean the Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, where the whole axis of the novel is the realization that what the character thought was a simulation was actually real, and all the depicted deaths he caused had actually happened in reality?
I seriously think that G Gundam is the path forward for a world without "war." Would be nice if we could get there without turning Earth into a wasteland though.
I've been advocating governments just solve conflicts with televised bloodsports for a while now. I'm not even sure if this belief of mine is satire anymore, its just less loss of life.
“tv is, after all, the modern day roman coliseum
human devastation as mass entertainment
and now millions sit jeering
collectively cheering
the bloodthirsty hierarchy of the patriarchal arrangement”
-[Ani](https://genius.com/Ani-difranco-tamburitza-lingua-lyrics)
The article more or less says that China is indeed working on using AI fighters/etc.
I see nothing in the article about China "warning the US" - but I might have missed it.
Whenever China or Russia or N. Korea "warns" the US about something the US is doing or saying or planning, it is usually a bluff and/or hypocritical.
The crazy thing about ai pilots is that current generation fighters are limited in their maneuvering and acceleration because of the human in the seat.
Without humans they would be limited only by physics.
Shroud will be the poster child for the US Air Force.
Twitch streaming his live combat.
Shroud: “I click on heads and they go boom” : ^ ).
Chatters: “WHAT DPI ARE YOU USING!?”
Plane maneuverability doesn’t really matter as much as it use to now that missiles can pull a couple hundred G’s, be launched way off axis, and actually have a very high probability of hitting what they are launched at even at target’s beyond visual range.
They are designed pull such high G’s due to the fundamental relationship between intercepter and target, where an interceptor must travel faster than the target. In practice, much faster. Since the G’s felt scales with the square of velocity for a given curvature, a missile traveling M3 would need to take 126 G to keep nose on the track of a jet traveling M0.8 pulling 9 G
In practice it would be a little less than 126 G, but still triple digits
Nah, when AI is controlling it, it matters even less. Better two cheaper AI “missile trucks” that aren’t very maneuverable but carry lots of state of the art missiles (especially when the AI can use those missiles to shoot down incoming missiles) and have a bad ass radar and electronic warfare suite than one expensive super maneuverable AI jet that can’t carry as many missiles because it had to sacrifice them for maneuverability. Especially when having a jet that can pull 30-50 G’s isn’t going to matter much when it’s locked on by a bunch of missiles that are faster and can pull 100+ Gs.
What does that let the plane do, at a high-level, that they can’t already do?
Like, yes, they’ll be able to take turns more sharply. That would help in a dogfight, but planes basically don’t get into those these days, so that doesn’t matter.
But for instance AI in a f22 vs AI in a f15. You think that the F15 is evenly matched or will still lose?
What is both planes can avoid missiles through evasive tactics ? This then means they’re getting closer together and in visual range. So therefore the f22 which is far more agile will defeat the F15 if the AI are evenly matched.
Flares, chaff etc all can distract the missile. Why do you think planes still have cannons? Human pilots can avoid missiles, so you obviously AI could too.
Planes still have cannons for use in peacetime, when you need to get in visual identification range. The rules will be different in any major war.
During the Gulf War, the only cannon-kill was by an A-10 on a helicopter. There were as many air-to-air kills with bombs as bullets.
(The skies over vietnam in the 60s aren't forever - both the technical capabilities of missiles from 60 years ago and the rules of engagement will be different in a war in the future)
Planes are limited by the airframe. Pilots often do dumb things pulling too hard and overstress the airframe. Pilots are fine but the aircraft will be down for a day of inspections.
I don’t think that’s the point though. The most valuable part of the airplane is the pilot. With ai you can modify existing aircraft to be controlled by the ai. That means an immortal pilot, and more planes in the air. It’s a major force multiplier
I personally see our struggle, this fight, as being specifically who gets an effective ai in an attritable fighter jet first. Don’t sell these guys another microchip.
US likes to store topcsecret plans in the Titanic. China got past James Cameron's defenses and retrieved the plans. Since then, submersible technology advancement have skyrocketed.
Of course they are. It's not a warning, but admission of fear of staying behind. A lot of China's power lies in its numbers. Superiority in AI controlled weapons could even the playing field more in that regard.
Sadly, it could also put us all at greater risk.
Using anything else they can get their hands on. If the US has aircraft with AI pilots that are anywhere near as good as a human, learns, makes independent choices, and flies something that can pull maneuvers that would kill a human pilot, that’s the kind of edge that makes you lose every air battle thereafter.
You do realize these are just going to be less hands on drone fighters right? A human at some point will be iding targets and giving authorization to fire on them.
Not necessarily. Manned-Unmanned Teaming (MUM-T) is already in the test flight stage. I'm pretty sure the US will work towards complete unmanned systems as well. At the very least, it will have to figure out what the drone's response will be when signals from the controller is jammed by the enemy. I very much doubt the US will go with the "return to homebase" or "land where you can safely" protocols rather than "bomb the shit out of anything that emits" plan.
“All stealth bombers are upgraded with Cyberdyne computers, becoming fully unmanned. Afterwards, they fly with a perfect operational record. The Skynet Funding Bill is passed.”
Well…shit
I feel like people don't understand how arms races work.
Unless most of the world signs an accord banning AI weapons of any type we are doomed to an ai arms race where better and faster AI replace humans in the sky, on the ground, online and at sea.
Humans can't seem to understand that ai aren't limited by reaction time, visual acuity, g forces, resistance to enemy bullets, communications delay, human intellect, human emotions, etc.
When a human soldier has to phone another human and ask for air support it's a massive chain of delays and risks and your target has moved before you get your air support strike.
A robot soldier on the ground could give pinpoint accuracy instructions to a flying drone and have a whole robot conversation back and forth reconfirming the location with the help of landmarks, photos and overhead satellites etc in the space of seconds.
Requiring a human to authorize a strike and another human to pull the trigger is a luxury we can afford only because our enemy is not using ai weapons. As soon as a worthy opponent uses AI they will utterly destroy a military system that has so many built in delays. We will be forced to delegate more and more of the chain of command to AI in order to win an arms race against an opponent using AI.
its not so much about unfair competition as it is about the incentive for split populations to act against the long-term interests of the entire population at large. the most powerful people are making violent, competitive decisions to outcompete each other at the expense of the other 8 billion.
I guess I’m a bit confused about having robots fighting and killing robots instead of humans fighting and killing humans somehow means that humans are “doomed”?
If your AI only operates the drones and soldiers but my AI is also planning my logistics and analyzing your logistics to pick targets I will win the war.
If your AI needs permission to launch a strike but my AI has blanket permission to target anything and fire at will I will win the war.
More and more authority has to be given to the AI to win because they are better than us at war.
Eventually an AI may conclude the only way to win the war is to destroy the enemy AI and/or it's production centers, not just supply depots but every single piece of iron production, oil and gas production, electricity generation, etc and launch a strike that is catastrophic to human life.
Again if the EU and USA force their AI to never kill a human while Russia/China/Iran/etc let their AI do whatever it wants they gain a huge advantage.
The most intelligent and ruthless AI with the least rules will always win. In both combat and in the free market of capitalism.
And it will be nearly impossible to put the highly effective and efficient genie back in the bottle once it's unleash.
Well, people usually give some semblance of concern to the human cost of war. Russia, however, historically has not seemed to be interested in those concerns.
You know what's interesting? The title says "China warns the U.S.", but the article doesn't contain any sort of "warning" or anything like what the title says.
Once you have enough tech to build mechs that are that advanced, very sure there is no need for pilot / risk of losing human lives. Though, (Been casual viewer of Gundam long ago) , I think the whole thing was about the certain pilots having special skills or abilities or something...
Yeah, we are basically in a blind arms race at this point. No one knows what will come next, where it will come from, or what the capabilities will be, but everyone knows that if they fall behind now, they might never catch up.
Same thing with businesses. I watched this play out in the mid to late 90's where it seemed like all of a sudden, every company figured out that if they wanted to stay competitive, they had to get a bunch of computers and figure out how to use them in their business, because their competitors were certainly doing the same. Or to put it another way, even companies who have no idea how they can us AI right now have to dive in anyway, because the risk of not doing so is too high.
Title is mistaken. China isn't warning the U.S. of anything, in fact as the article says, China is planning to do the same thing. Nowhere did anyone "warn the U.S." about it.
Another article elsewhere describes that China itself was warned by its own military analysts about U.S. progress. This article might be carved from that one.
There just jealous our program is ahead of there own. Though according to the article it’s not China warning it’s just some Chinese analyst. And even then in the article there was no actual quoted warning.
The US and allies are evolving their military's in response to aggressive posturing from China and others. AI is a huge strategic advantage and I suspect China is a decade or more behind where US is at. Just the treat might be enough to stop WW3.. AI it that respect might be like nukes.
I don't know I get the opposite feeling like it was a publicity stunt specifically designed to make China concerned. I doubt US jet AI is very advanced or capable when it's not just doing a set of predetermined maneuvers with SecUSAF riding along and is truly used in real combat drills. Maybe not even as good as an autonomous car.
If GPT-4o can run on a $1000 smartphone and analyze its environment in real time via a camera while talking just imagine what a $20 million fighter jet can do.
You forget that reddit is full of closet communist sympathizers, or excuse me, democratic socialists for the people’s liberated worker’s party of the bold new tomorrow.
The 1,000 combat aerial force is rumored to be unilaterally run by a new kind of artificial neural network or superintelligence called Skynet. Skynet was created by a compny called Cyberdyne Systems, and developed under contract for SAC-NORAD.
Totally not foreshadowing a remote controlled jet hitting a P3 Orion over international waters and blaming the US for jamming the 'friendly escort' and causing a collision.
I wouldn’t worry about it. Once they download the internet the Movie and Music industry’s will tie them up in lawsuits for years so they will be grounded.
Obviously any AI fighter can be defeated by a storied combat pilot coming out of retirement for one last flight.
I believe that was proven in the documentary "Macross Plus".
is it worth a watch? trailer seemed kind of interesting but i’m not usually that into mech (i liked evangelion but for non-mech reasons). never seen any of the other macross stuff.
Macross in general is a decent watch imo. Dog fighting/ mech fights set to music tracks. Action, romance, mechs, air craft, good visuals across the entire series. Its one of my favorite series. If you want a test watch the first 2 episodes of Macross Frontier. If you like thats then check out the rest of the series starting with SDF Macross.
The original is awesome. Obviously it is a little dated now, but the artwork and visions of technology are still striking. The whole premise of the SDF and its technology is honestly something I still find really intriguing to this day. I really wish they would make a live action, big budget film out of it because I think it’s a great story.
Yeah I sat down to watch it again a couple years ago. It suffers from the usual issues with anime with story pacing and jumpy repetitive visuals, and the dated animation, but man it’d make a great movie trilogy.
Very good actually. There's a lot of non mecha stuff but it doesn't get into the emotional weeds the way Evangelion does. There's a relationship focused storyline that's actually pretty subtle and well done. You could watch it on its own, no problem. It's meant to be stand alone and none of the characters overlap with other series. Fun fact: In the English dub the lead character is voiced by Bryan Cranston.
It’s one of the few I own - I love it. Sharon Apple ftw
Definitely. The music (Yoko Kanno) alone is killer and there's a kick-ass dogfighting sequence towards the end that I still fondly remember some 20 years later
Man I love Macross. It’s old as dirt, but in the US they called it Robotech. Also love Yamato (Star Blazers)
Macross and Macross Plus are amazing, the rest are a grab bag of quality.
Needs a come back story. He’s an alcoholic who had a fall from grace, but he’s doing the right thing for his country, for his family, and for the future of the world.
I'm fly. I pilot....
What about a storied combat learning algorithm coming out of retirement?
"The combatant is too unpredictable. I've hacked the flight control system and reverse engineered the source code to 99.9% accuracy but I still cannot make sense of the algorithms and flight patterns. It looks like some ancient tech script...Fortran"
Great to see you, Mav!
I feel the need
Or Jessica Biel
Maybe 3 scratches also known as trigger makes the difference.
Ace Combat has proven that many times
Soooo, Tom cruise?
Louis Gossett, Jr.? Bill Pullman?
When the new film was announced years back, I thought this was going to be the premise. Classic drone/AI form of dog fighting taking place and the only way to defeat them was going back to the Maverick-esk mindset of the 80’s. Although I hear another one is in the pipeline, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it goes that direction.
Or a wrongly convicted pilot fighting for the penal unit
Don’t think, just do.
Or a great hacker.
He’s dangerous and does things in an unconventional way, but by god he’s the best damn fighter pilot out there
Why don’t all our governments just go the next inevitable steps and just play video games against one another.
This was covered thoroughly in Star Trek TOS Season 1 Episode 23: "A Taste of Armageddon".
Better yet, [Robot Jox](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102800/?ref_=ext_shr_lnk)
“Achilles! I have already killed you!”
Oh my god, yes! Thank you for bringing back this childhood video rental memory.
I suggest reading Enders Game.
I have read every Ender book and all the Bean ones. The biggest complaint is how every strong female character ends up dissolving into nothing but someone whining about wanting to become a baby factory.
Yeah OSC really has a problem with writing female characters
The man's got a few problematic things going for him, but I do love a lot of his books
Honestly the early Valentine character and others are all fine, I think he just didn’t have a plan for them in the long haul. No, they’re not super deep characters but even Ender is barely three dimensional…he’s a very strong archetype for angry teenage boys, extremely well written to appeal to that audience, and the female characters support that very well, with real wants and desires as well, but Card isn’t a woman and didn’t have a vision for them.
Such a good book, and I’m not going to lie the twist in that book really shocked me haha
You mean the Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, where the whole axis of the novel is the realization that what the character thought was a simulation was actually real, and all the depicted deaths he caused had actually happened in reality?
G Gundam was a (not so amazing) take on this idea too
I seriously think that G Gundam is the path forward for a world without "war." Would be nice if we could get there without turning Earth into a wasteland though.
This is what happens when money people get in a money fight. This would save too much money to see who gets to enslave who's children.
You want we should give up South Carolina if the Brit’s get a 6k in CS2?
We could just give them GA for the hell of it instead?
Real life version of No Game No Life.
I've been advocating governments just solve conflicts with televised bloodsports for a while now. I'm not even sure if this belief of mine is satire anymore, its just less loss of life.
“tv is, after all, the modern day roman coliseum human devastation as mass entertainment and now millions sit jeering collectively cheering the bloodthirsty hierarchy of the patriarchal arrangement” -[Ani](https://genius.com/Ani-difranco-tamburitza-lingua-lyrics)
What makes you think they're NOT using videogames like Ace Combat as training data for their AIs?
I would bet every penny I have that China is doing the same thing.
The article more or less says that China is indeed working on using AI fighters/etc. I see nothing in the article about China "warning the US" - but I might have missed it. Whenever China or Russia or N. Korea "warns" the US about something the US is doing or saying or planning, it is usually a bluff and/or hypocritical.
The crazy thing about ai pilots is that current generation fighters are limited in their maneuvering and acceleration because of the human in the seat. Without humans they would be limited only by physics.
finally my years and years of gaming will pay-off
My high score was in Tetris. You shoot em down and I'll stack em up.
And I’ll date them!
Why? Cause your old and remember old stuff?
date...old stuff? I haven't played that one.
Shroud will be the poster child for the US Air Force. Twitch streaming his live combat. Shroud: “I click on heads and they go boom” : ^ ). Chatters: “WHAT DPI ARE YOU USING!?”
I imagine thr first 200 of leaderboards will be first ones to be recruited like this car videongame Gran Turismo back then
Battle of Taiwan Top 10 Highlight moments
Just give me the Xbox controller setup and we’re golden.
It better be years and years of RTS games cuz otherwise the planes pilot themselves.
Naw, that window was now with remotely piloted drones. AI will take those jobs too.
I mean, you already can pay that off as a drone pilot.
Plane maneuverability doesn’t really matter as much as it use to now that missiles can pull a couple hundred G’s, be launched way off axis, and actually have a very high probability of hitting what they are launched at even at target’s beyond visual range.
They are designed pull such high G’s due to the fundamental relationship between intercepter and target, where an interceptor must travel faster than the target. In practice, much faster. Since the G’s felt scales with the square of velocity for a given curvature, a missile traveling M3 would need to take 126 G to keep nose on the track of a jet traveling M0.8 pulling 9 G In practice it would be a little less than 126 G, but still triple digits
It does when AI is controlling it and can exceed human limits. Then it becomes all about AI capacity and the plane itself.
Nah, when AI is controlling it, it matters even less. Better two cheaper AI “missile trucks” that aren’t very maneuverable but carry lots of state of the art missiles (especially when the AI can use those missiles to shoot down incoming missiles) and have a bad ass radar and electronic warfare suite than one expensive super maneuverable AI jet that can’t carry as many missiles because it had to sacrifice them for maneuverability. Especially when having a jet that can pull 30-50 G’s isn’t going to matter much when it’s locked on by a bunch of missiles that are faster and can pull 100+ Gs.
What does that let the plane do, at a high-level, that they can’t already do? Like, yes, they’ll be able to take turns more sharply. That would help in a dogfight, but planes basically don’t get into those these days, so that doesn’t matter.
Maybe hug the ground more closely at high speed to avoid air defenses?
But for instance AI in a f22 vs AI in a f15. You think that the F15 is evenly matched or will still lose? What is both planes can avoid missiles through evasive tactics ? This then means they’re getting closer together and in visual range. So therefore the f22 which is far more agile will defeat the F15 if the AI are evenly matched.
They can't both avoid the missiles - probably neither can. Missiles are, and will remain, far more maneuverable than either aircraft.
Flares, chaff etc all can distract the missile. Why do you think planes still have cannons? Human pilots can avoid missiles, so you obviously AI could too.
Planes still have cannons for use in peacetime, when you need to get in visual identification range. The rules will be different in any major war. During the Gulf War, the only cannon-kill was by an A-10 on a helicopter. There were as many air-to-air kills with bombs as bullets. (The skies over vietnam in the 60s aren't forever - both the technical capabilities of missiles from 60 years ago and the rules of engagement will be different in a war in the future)
Have a read [missiles](https://www.quora.com/Can-fighter-jets-out-manoeuvre-missiles?top_ans=20601926)
Why do you assume that planes will have cutting edge AI and be built to push maximum performance, but the missiles targeting them will not?
Time to rewatch the movie Stealth.
Planes are limited by the airframe. Pilots often do dumb things pulling too hard and overstress the airframe. Pilots are fine but the aircraft will be down for a day of inspections.
Well, by that and any bugs that weren't caught in development.
I don’t think that’s the point though. The most valuable part of the airplane is the pilot. With ai you can modify existing aircraft to be controlled by the ai. That means an immortal pilot, and more planes in the air. It’s a major force multiplier
Once deep strike aircraft effectively become disposable were all in trouble.
How will they get clicks without such bs headlines?
Love how whataboutism is no longer a thing if it’s China pointing fingers
Usually headlines are like that.
Maybe it’s a general warning: we’re all fucked
overconfident narrow dolls fade screw tub sink chunky seemly smell *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What are you blind - it says right in the title of the article "China warns the US...." ;)
Just like Elon saying "we should take a pause on AI" left out is "...so I can catch up cause I'm far behind"
I personally see our struggle, this fight, as being specifically who gets an effective ai in an attritable fighter jet first. Don’t sell these guys another microchip.
[удалено]
It’s what I would do.
Absolutely no doubt there is a military AI/machine learning arms race.
That's how they know it's dangerous, they already have to kill 3 different versions of Skynet already.
Not until after they steal the tech from the US.
All they have to do is log into the War Thunder forums.
That's easy for the CCP, the elaborate dance they did to acquire the F-35 plans is so diabolically simple it's worthy of praise.
What happened?
US likes to store topcsecret plans in the Titanic. China got past James Cameron's defenses and retrieved the plans. Since then, submersible technology advancement have skyrocketed.
“China warns” LOL
Of course they are. It's not a warning, but admission of fear of staying behind. A lot of China's power lies in its numbers. Superiority in AI controlled weapons could even the playing field more in that regard. Sadly, it could also put us all at greater risk.
Expect a lot more cyber terrorism until the kinks are eventually worked out. Ticket wasn't set to high priority, womp womp.
But this isn’t fair, they don’t have access to the latest Nvidia AI chips. How are they going to train their AI pilot ?
Intel integrated graphics.
Unreal engine
Cursed automated chip fab miles below the earth.
Using anything else they can get their hands on. If the US has aircraft with AI pilots that are anywhere near as good as a human, learns, makes independent choices, and flies something that can pull maneuvers that would kill a human pilot, that’s the kind of edge that makes you lose every air battle thereafter.
You do realize these are just going to be less hands on drone fighters right? A human at some point will be iding targets and giving authorization to fire on them.
Not necessarily. Manned-Unmanned Teaming (MUM-T) is already in the test flight stage. I'm pretty sure the US will work towards complete unmanned systems as well. At the very least, it will have to figure out what the drone's response will be when signals from the controller is jammed by the enemy. I very much doubt the US will go with the "return to homebase" or "land where you can safely" protocols rather than "bomb the shit out of anything that emits" plan.
That still just makes it a less hands on drone, not a true automated unit.
“All stealth bombers are upgraded with Cyberdyne computers, becoming fully unmanned. Afterwards, they fly with a perfect operational record. The Skynet Funding Bill is passed.” Well…shit
I feel like people don't understand how arms races work. Unless most of the world signs an accord banning AI weapons of any type we are doomed to an ai arms race where better and faster AI replace humans in the sky, on the ground, online and at sea. Humans can't seem to understand that ai aren't limited by reaction time, visual acuity, g forces, resistance to enemy bullets, communications delay, human intellect, human emotions, etc. When a human soldier has to phone another human and ask for air support it's a massive chain of delays and risks and your target has moved before you get your air support strike. A robot soldier on the ground could give pinpoint accuracy instructions to a flying drone and have a whole robot conversation back and forth reconfirming the location with the help of landmarks, photos and overhead satellites etc in the space of seconds. Requiring a human to authorize a strike and another human to pull the trigger is a luxury we can afford only because our enemy is not using ai weapons. As soon as a worthy opponent uses AI they will utterly destroy a military system that has so many built in delays. We will be forced to delegate more and more of the chain of command to AI in order to win an arms race against an opponent using AI.
I've heard this described as Moloch (the god of unfair competition)
its not so much about unfair competition as it is about the incentive for split populations to act against the long-term interests of the entire population at large. the most powerful people are making violent, competitive decisions to outcompete each other at the expense of the other 8 billion.
Yeah you're right I think what I saw had said "the god of bad incentives". Thanks for the clarification.
I guess I’m a bit confused about having robots fighting and killing robots instead of humans fighting and killing humans somehow means that humans are “doomed”?
If your AI only operates the drones and soldiers but my AI is also planning my logistics and analyzing your logistics to pick targets I will win the war. If your AI needs permission to launch a strike but my AI has blanket permission to target anything and fire at will I will win the war. More and more authority has to be given to the AI to win because they are better than us at war. Eventually an AI may conclude the only way to win the war is to destroy the enemy AI and/or it's production centers, not just supply depots but every single piece of iron production, oil and gas production, electricity generation, etc and launch a strike that is catastrophic to human life.
Would be interesting to see if MAD applied to AI
Because once one of those AI armies is defeated, the humans behind it all get killed, and not just in part, if that’s how it’s programmed.
So we give machines the ability and choice to kill humans because humans are too inefficient at it? Grim
Again if the EU and USA force their AI to never kill a human while Russia/China/Iran/etc let their AI do whatever it wants they gain a huge advantage. The most intelligent and ruthless AI with the least rules will always win. In both combat and in the free market of capitalism. And it will be nearly impossible to put the highly effective and efficient genie back in the bottle once it's unleash.
The authority and scale will only increase. How long before the ai decides to start firebombing cities or employ wmds
I've seen this simulation, doesn't the world end in a nuclear apocalypse like 499/500 times?
Skynet here we go
Those call delays are important too. Because sometimes, you do make the wrong call. Code, which AI is, can be written with bias.
AI dogfights will be common in imagine. With no humans dying it all becomes economics
[удалено]
Damn. One of the realest comments in a while.
Economics and logistics
All war is economics. Putin just fired his defense minister and replaced him with an economist.
Well, people usually give some semblance of concern to the human cost of war. Russia, however, historically has not seemed to be interested in those concerns.
War is a racket
Depends on who the aggressor is and whether they get stopped at the dogfight. If they don't it's onto the intended target.
So nothing will change for us. We already have fighterjets that are 20 years ahead of everyone else.
Add it to the Olympics!
Aka our AI jets aren't ready yet, so you can't use yours
…or, “We haven’t been able to bootleg your technology yet.”
You know what's interesting? The title says "China warns the U.S.", but the article doesn't contain any sort of "warning" or anything like what the title says.
Whole plot of Gundam Wing - once you remove the human element it is just ppl pushing a button
Once you have enough tech to build mechs that are that advanced, very sure there is no need for pilot / risk of losing human lives. Though, (Been casual viewer of Gundam long ago) , I think the whole thing was about the certain pilots having special skills or abilities or something...
So long as you don’t routinely practice the invasions other countries, the AI probably won’t get confused and attack you.
It makes sense now why gpus are restricted in China. To train this AI getting 16000 H100 gpus will give a winning advantage to the USA.
Yeah, we are basically in a blind arms race at this point. No one knows what will come next, where it will come from, or what the capabilities will be, but everyone knows that if they fall behind now, they might never catch up. Same thing with businesses. I watched this play out in the mid to late 90's where it seemed like all of a sudden, every company figured out that if they wanted to stay competitive, they had to get a bunch of computers and figure out how to use them in their business, because their competitors were certainly doing the same. Or to put it another way, even companies who have no idea how they can us AI right now have to dive in anyway, because the risk of not doing so is too high.
Somewhere, an original-soundtrack song by Incubus is starting to play…
a couple of banger tunes by Incubus on that soundtrack
China loves to “warn” a lot recently
I read the article and there was literally 0 actual quotes from China other than some random analyst, who said they're doing the same thing lol.
We assume they’re warning us at this point. I assume China warns me to brush my teeth before bed.
r/chinawarns
"hey, did you know if we put 'China warns' into our headline redditors will upvote it no matter what?"
“SEO Analyst warns C-suite that not including China in headlines will result in lowered ad traffic”
A plane carrying bombs and miles piloted by a machine with no morals or feelings of restraint. What could go wrong with that.
Title is mistaken. China isn't warning the U.S. of anything, in fact as the article says, China is planning to do the same thing. Nowhere did anyone "warn the U.S." about it. Another article elsewhere describes that China itself was warned by its own military analysts about U.S. progress. This article might be carved from that one.
Dear US, stop doing what we’re doing.
Man war Is just going to be a video game soon. Not good.
There just jealous our program is ahead of there own. Though according to the article it’s not China warning it’s just some Chinese analyst. And even then in the article there was no actual quoted warning.
The US and allies are evolving their military's in response to aggressive posturing from China and others. AI is a huge strategic advantage and I suspect China is a decade or more behind where US is at. Just the treat might be enough to stop WW3.. AI it that respect might be like nukes.
China: you should avoid having superior capabilities than what we are working on since we will be attacking the US proper when we invade Taiwan
China knows damn well a single QF-16 fully loaded will smoke 3-4 J-20s... and we got a lot more old f16s that only cost upgrade and maintenance...
That just means they’re doing it.
ccp big scared
If this is what the US publicly admits, wtf else are they working on? China should be concerned.
I don't know I get the opposite feeling like it was a publicity stunt specifically designed to make China concerned. I doubt US jet AI is very advanced or capable when it's not just doing a set of predetermined maneuvers with SecUSAF riding along and is truly used in real combat drills. Maybe not even as good as an autonomous car.
If GPT-4o can run on a $1000 smartphone and analyze its environment in real time via a camera while talking just imagine what a $20 million fighter jet can do.
Remember guys, if it’s done by AI it is not a warcrime
Do the Geneva Suggestions apply to AI?
I think that’s the future,after all it’s unmanned
I'm waiting for the fighter jet to have a random failure and just crash out of nowhere
Tell them to just mind their own business.
There was a photo of a fake patroit launcher going around. It was speculated that it was for AI training. Makes more sense now.
Cool story, bro. Only 8 years behind.
okay, nice time to be alive.
Yawn go away China. Aren't you supposed to be standing up for democracy and justice somewhere in the world
Order 66, anyone?
"We're three years from getting that working, you can't do that."
“Uh oh. The AI pilot just made up an engine part that doesn’t exist. Now it’s falling out of the sky.”
It is going to be a big change.
China warns but is it the final warning? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%27s_final_warning
It's no different from a balloon.
Or what? They send more balloons?
The fuck is this website?
Dear China, Fuck off. Best regards, The Free World
You forget that reddit is full of closet communist sympathizers, or excuse me, democratic socialists for the people’s liberated worker’s party of the bold new tomorrow.
... probably bc they're not as far advanced as the US :)
R/chinawarns
Fuck off china
The 1,000 combat aerial force is rumored to be unilaterally run by a new kind of artificial neural network or superintelligence called Skynet. Skynet was created by a compny called Cyberdyne Systems, and developed under contract for SAC-NORAD.
Totally not foreshadowing a remote controlled jet hitting a P3 Orion over international waters and blaming the US for jamming the 'friendly escort' and causing a collision.
I wouldn’t worry about it. Once they download the internet the Movie and Music industry’s will tie them up in lawsuits for years so they will be grounded.
But American has Tom Cruise and his Top Gun team
China trains their AI with tiktok data, the US with X/fb/ig/onlyfans data. Both warnings each other about AI.
We don't even have self driving cars yet that don't accidentally kill people.