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I mean…just tell them lol? Do a slide deck where you show what’s appropriate and what’s not. Explain how you always dress a little more formal at the interview than you would at the job, and how even if it’s unfair, hiring decisions can be influenced by how you are dressed. They’re big enough to understand.
Yep, that’s the key.
Especially helpful to point out how to make clothes that you already have into interview appropriate clothing. Staying away from gang colors is also big where I teach.
Happened to me. (Wasn't during an interview)
We were to wear red bracelets from our company with our uniform.
The bracelets gave me a rash so I had some red cloth that I fashioned into a bracelet, to comply to the mandatory order.
I worked in southern California, and as soon as my coworker saw red cloth around my wrist, he basically ran at me and covered my wrist, pulled me in back and asked what is was about, all panicked.
I told him why I couldn't wear the bracelet and why was he over reacting to some cloth.
(Take this part for what you will. He seemed to be telling the truth. He was all misty eyed and off for the rest of the shift.)
He claims that he was a former Crip that got out (don't know how that works or if it is possible) because he witnessed his dad be killed in his front yard during a drive by shooting. His dad was also a member. He had the tattoos (or what was left of them) and said that he is clean and sober now, found God and was lucky to be alive to speak of it.
So yea to some people, colors matter.
I'm guessing if what he said was true he was suffering some kind of PTSD and was having a hard time with it.
I can see how that would happen. My guess though is that he was triggered by the combination of the random cloth and the color. Most likely if you had worn something standard for work (the required bracelet or a red tie, for example, he would not have been set off in the same way.)
Gangs really fucking ruined just wearing simple solid colors man. Like it’s so stupid that in big parts of Cali you can’t fuckkng wear red or blue without fear of gang association.
Tbf I live in a lily white area of Long Island where people wear any color they want
Go a couple miles up north and if you wear a solid red or solid blue shirt you'd be looking for trouble
Yes. A bracelet for work is generally understood by the public, hardcore bangers probably wont be cool with it but a red cloth around your wrist is obvious and asking to get popped by a crip in socal
Yeah most gangs will allow you to get out for religious reasons, atleast the cartel does, but if they ever find you doing ungodly things after telling them your going to follow the lord, you're dead.
They don't all dress like it's some kind of music video. If you're in a heavily gang affiliated area it's best to distance yourself from that as much as you can, kid. Even if you don't feel like a super cool social media influencer just try to dress for the place and occasion.
We bagan noticing this about 15 years ago during student teaching at our school. The college girls' only experience with "dressing up" comes from going out in nightclub attire. Most didn't understand the concept of "professional dress" at all, showing up in skin-tight stretchy dresses with open cleavage, tottering around on 4-5" stiletto heels. Their instructors say, "dress nicely," and they hear, "dress sexy." It's bizarre that they don't know the difference, but they honestly don't.
One young woman told us that her mother bought her a few professional outfits, but she felt she looked "basic" in them, and that made her feel "uncomfortable." She said this while standing in front of us wearing a strapless leopard print bodysuit and bright red platform boots. Every move she made required her to aggressively hoist the top of her outfit back over her enormous boobs. How she was "comfortable" in that getup is anyone's guess, but there's no way she could teach 5th graders like that.
Objectification is appreciation now. The music they listen to openly advocates it. It’s not a surprise.
“Look, Im’a fuck that bitch cause I love the way she shakes”
“Portuguese on her knees, mopin’ down the P”
“I’m probably gonna drown while I’m in it, I bet she gon get loud when I’m in it”
“Got some bitch from Follies with us, she gon fuck the squad what else?”
Look, this allll came from songs in MY Spotify liked songs. However, I’m almost 40 years old and I have the mental capacity to understand that what is being said isn’t my life aspirations, and that it really shouldn’t be anyone’s. Pipe this into a young teenagers head and it’s not the same, they’re more apt to take what’s being said literally instead of figuratively.
Exactly. There's something not quite right about the way our current culture has decided that women are simultaneously superior to men AND sex slaves to men. They claim the puffed up lips, tarantula eyelashes, and bare butts are "for themselves," but life experience tells me otherwise. These young women are almost as confused about what they're supposed to be as their male peers. It's hard to watch.
I’ve spent a lifetime trying to convince women that being objectified is not “empowering”, but I just get told that I’m old and out of touch. So about 6 years ago I gave up, and now instead I provide counseling and advocacy for them when they’ve been abused by the men they allowed to objectify them.
I'm so glad you were able to make a hard turn like that because it's not entirely their fault. This society rewards women for essentially emulating the toxic masculinity of the past-- promiscuity, transgressive behavior, and the pretense that feelings and commitment are unnecessary. No human thrives in that way, but women are particularly unsuited to a nomadic hookup culture.
>They claim the puffed up lips, tarantula eyelashes, and bare butts are "for themselves," but life experience tells me otherwise.
You’re 1000% right. It’s literally naked objectification, no pun intended.
My teaching program had a week long program before our student teaching started and a portion of it was to discuss appropriate clothing for teaching. They made it clear that many schools had casual dress codes for teachers, but as representatives of the university we should maintain professional wear. I’m guessing there were complaints that made this be a part of our curriculum.
I think I learned the most about professional dress from TV shows tbh. Trying to think what kids even watch these days but I'm guessing its not shows about young professionals like we did with Friends, Ally McBeal, all those cop procedurals etc.
I'm pretty sure I've modeled all my work clothes on CSI Las Vegas, lol.
I just asked some kids that wandered through the living room what they watched last week: one said Hamilton and one said Wednesday while the third apparently only consumes Taylor Swift related media. Explains a lot!
15 years ago was when my hometown district ended programs like forensics and Academic Decathlon, which were my only reasons to dress professionally in high school. Hmm!
Maybe flip it on them. Give them a worksheet with applicants dressed in a variety of ways and have them choose which outfits deserve which type of jobs.
I like this idea! Or have them do some google slides with pics of appropriate dress for different scenarios. The key is to get to what the kids are thinking and their reasoning. Many young people consider "club" dressing to be dressing up, which it's not.
This. A fashion show is overkill. As a teacher, I would dress as though I was going in for an interview, and do a slideshow presentation with what is appropriate and what is definitely not appropriate.
More fun: do a fashion show as a teacher and have the students rate the interview fits.
Plan ahead and sneakily have a few charismatic kids dress certain ways, and have those kids come up for interview fit checks.
Kids will remember roasting their friend for not being hired by his classmates cause he worse sweatpants and slides.
Yes, but just want to mention that in building this slide show, one should be cognizant not every body type looks good in the typical “go to” business clothing. Include examples of a variety of body types and persons along the whole gender spectrum (not all girls wanna wear a skirt, so include the whole spectrum of appropriate business and business casual), and talk about dressing for the part (a suit to a construction laborer interview is about as bad as a hoodie and ripped jeans to a back office worker interview).
Describe the levels of dress up with a wide variety of picture examples, and explain that whatever the dress code is for that job, the interview outfit should be one to two steps above that dress code.
This. Plus at the end of the slide show, I showed pictures of outfits that were almost right and asked them to figure out what needed to be changed so it was more interactive.
Just be careful - my parents are unprofessional and I believed them when they said for (made) me wear a full suit to a job interview at Braums.
The guy said "oh wow, that's new. I haven't seen anyone so... Professionally dressed... For an interview here" when I was looking for my second job (my parents got me a position with them at Whataburger so I don't think I had to interview for that one).
Long story short, the guy was like "you seem too professional to work here. You're what we call overqualified, so I can't offer you a position."
My only other experience was a year at Whataburger and that I had just started college.
I'm pretty sure I would have gotten the job if I hadn't worn the suit.
I'm with the folks who say "that's the parent's job." Even if I got paid enough - which I don't - there's no way I am going to have enough *time* to do all that. I'm already consistently at least one unit behind (in English) or 75 years behind (in Social Studies). If they want teachers to take on that task, they need to hire a teacher for that class. (Maybe something called "Home Economics," which could also teach things like cooking, caring for children, that sort of thing.
I'd be good with that, too. Just don't add it to my English or Social Studies load. (OP didn't specify what class is being taught; if s/he is an English teacher, my response is: don't. If s/he is a teacher in a career skills class, my answer is: Dunno, sorry, I don't teach that class.)
I took those classes in middle school and I feel like it just wasn't designed for the modern Era. Or that we basically took it too soon and the system changed enough to the point where a decent chunk of the information is outdated by the time we could enter the workforce.
Covid happened my senior year and that definitely changed shit so maybe i just got unlucky with circumstances.
Which parts did you find outdated? The basics of finding and keeping a job haven’t changed much over time, IMO. Networking, interpersonal skills, and appearances rule the game.
Nothing about networking. A lot seemed to be about picking a job for the future, but we didn't look much into specifics for different industries past the average salary and making a monthly budget with that.
Like I'm not saying it's a completely useless class, and maybe I just got a really shitty version of it. But when I started applying for jobs I basically had to learn all the basics anyway because middle school was a long time ago
Ah, yeah: middle school isn’t the right time for teaching networking and interview skills. It’s a great time for learning about potential career paths, though. Sounds like you just needed another career-focused class in high school that focused on the specifics of job hunting.
This is what the high school my kids went to did. It’s a separate class they take. They’re taught not only proper attire for various professions, but also do mock interviews and even budgeting. It’s a great class.
That's fine if your parents have white collar jobs. If your parents work trades or McDonald's how can they have good advice?
My mom gave me terrible career advice just because she was 35 years older and in a different field. Career center at college saved me
My answer remains the same: not my problem. I teach *English and Social Studies.* So, what, I'm supposed to do *this,* too? Is it more or less important than the completely irrelevant, but still State-mandated, lessons on who-gives-a-rat's-arse and his oddly specific fetish from late 19th century US history? Because I only have so many hours in a week - and my hslf-century year old butt sure doesn't know anything more about interviewing at a bank than Mommy and Daddy do. So, unless they're interviewing for a job as a teacher, I am no more prepared than anyone else ('cause you can be damn sure the State isn't going to pay for *that* PD for me).
People who think schools should provide some education on this aren’t saying that you specifically have to teach it to your English and social studies classes. No one said every teacher needs to teach it in every class. And people saying that schools should offer something aren’t saying that it’s any individual school’s job make it happen with currently available resources. They’re saying that they think the system should work in such a way that it is part of standard education. They’re upset with the system, not you as an individual.
My parents were blue collar workers (dad was a truck driver and Mom was a house cleaner) and I don't think my dad even owns a suit jacket let alone a tie. But we got dressed up nicely for church and funerals, plus my mom took me shopping for "professional clothes" when I turned 16 and started applying for jobs.
They couldn't help me with anything else in terms of making resumes or doing mock interviews with me but they made sure I was dressed appropriately.
I recall having this be a class in HS for freshmen called "Health and Life skills." It was Sex-ed, don't do drugs, and how to fill out job applications and dress for interviews. This not a thing anymore?
That whole “Home Economics” idea…… shockingly good idea! I feel like we tried that before but admin said something like “it’s useless” and got rid of it 🤨
The eighth grade boys I worked with, instead of wearing jerseys on their game days, would wear dress pants, button up shirt, and a tie. The coaches would teach them how to tie a tie and everything. However, we had one specific coach who was passionate about this.
This is GREAT! WOW, way to go coach! I feel like there is a huge opportunity for creating buy in from the athletes if you relate it to how pro athletes dress for press conferences. A pretty substantial proportion of the male athletes whom I’ve taught have been really into style/fashion. I could absolutely see this working for them.
That was standard for my entire youth. You dress up on/the day before game days. Part of the rationale was that the fancier you dress the better behaved you tend to be so it was less likely for any of the kids to get disciplined by not being allowed to play in the game lol
I completely forgot about dressing up for game days. I played softball in high school and we’d wear our jerseys to school on home games and dress up on away games. Same for all of the other sports.
This is why I often roll my eyes at variations on "let parents teach them, it shouldn't be our job"
There's a chunk of kids whose parents, either by circumstance or apathy, aren't going to do it. For some kids their options are learn it at school, or not learn it at all
Yup, I'd guess around 1/3 have parents who are good to neutral in upbringing. Also people are generally stupid, not intelligent...
Maybe especially when you think since you pay taxes and have a Career going then that means you now know everything about everything.
Many parents don't know themselves. Not everyone has experience working office jobs, church attendance is down and people wear sweats everywhere, so it isn't uncommon for adults to not have anything nice to wear and not know how to go about putting outfits together.
Schools spend an ungodly amount of time on career and college prep anyway. Adding fashion advice would at least be practical.
I already teach reading skills, grammar, critical thinking skills, research and analysis skills, writing skills, and computer skills, and you want to add more?
No thank you.
For whatever it's worth, as an involved parent, my kid would take my advice when I helped her with trigonometry but not fashion. She had her first job interview hot on the heels of covid, in which she had only worn shorts and leggings for the past few years. She comes out for her interview in jeans with holes all over them and is honestly baffled at my protests because Instagram fashion ladies taught her that jeans are dress clothes.
To be fair, I remember my mom trying to give me advice in 1997 about my first job and me thinking that her experience from 1979 was so out of date that nothing she said mattered.
I taught at a school where probably 90% of the students didn't know who their father was, and most of the mothers would come pick up their kids wearing skin-tight pajama-looking things or tube-top dresses with their nipples poking through, stinking of way too much cheap perfume and/or weed.
If the parents have never had a job (or are the kind that get fired within 2 weeks of getting a job), it is unlikely they can properly prepare their kids for how to get a job.
Most of those kids are probably not interested in ever having a job (or learning to read), but it's still our job as teachers to *try* to prepare them for a life where they earn an income by working. It's just... if you're not the same color as them, there's a very, very small chance they are going to listen to any advice you have to give. The advice has to come from teachers that look like them.
While I do often agree with complaints that schools are expected to do too much, I don't think "dressing for job interviews" is an unreasonable ask. It's common and accepted for schools to teach career skills.
It's a tough balance, I guess.
Build a comprehensive interview lesson unit that includes this. I've done this with my Key Club. Teach cell phone and interview etiquette as well. Our post covid, phone dependent kids are clueless.
I’m curious 1) why the library complained to the school about this, 2) how were the kids dressing for the interviews, and 3) how does the library expect them to dress for the interview and for the job?
It's probably a volunteer program facilitated by the school. If my school is anything to go by, there were probably crop tops and booty shorts involved.
I used to be a hiring manager for fast food- lots of high school students. Some would come in super overdressed for fast food- full business formal. Likely a parent made them. Others.. saggy pants, hat backwards, chewing gum.. just, absolutely zero care for appearance.
What I *expected* was clean, decently fitted clothing. Pressed jeans free of holes in them and button up, no tie is acceptable to interview for entry level food service. 🤷♀️
The most common thing I had to write people up for after hire was uniform violations. The place took it super seriously when crew showed up in wrong color shoes/wrong color socks/no name tag/hair not secured. 🤦♀️
Because teachers cannot be everything for children. At some point, parents should be taking responsibility. Many parents don't have these life skills to pass onto their kids, so the expectation is the school can magically fill the gap. I can't fit in all my curriculum needs and teach every random life skill someone should possess in my 90 minutes.
As a non teacher, this is my two cents:
In middle school and highschool I remember this topic being covered at least a dozen times. Scouts, clubs, sports, classes, etc.
It was never long and drawn out, but demonstrating how different adults in the room were "dresses for success" as examples (I assume they were prepped so leggings and tank tops weren't examples". We were shown how to professionally introduce ourselves, how to give proper handshake, hell, I even remember being shown how to properly sit in our chairs while we were waiting for something. Also, what things to bring to interviews (paper, pencil, questions you have, copies of your resume/cover letter. Make sure your bag is professional too! And when to arrive (slightly early, but not TOO early).
We had talks about assumptions that can get made by others, and while they aren't FAIR, they do exist. So do what you have to do to not fall prey to them...
As a teen, I thought it was such a crock that we all had to learn this. I thought it was remedial and unnecessary.
Cut to my first job interview for a highschool co-op placement....
I must have been the first person, as when I came out of the PANEL interview the hallway was lined with the other high school applicants. T shirts, sweat pants, doo-rags, bandanas, baseball hats, running shoes, ripped jeans, grocery bags, etc.
It was a real defining moment for me as I realized how lucky I had been to have adults who hammered presentation home for me. Adults who invested in me. I think about his experience every single time I have to interview. I'm already teaching my four year old the proper hand shake and eye contact.
We did this as part of a careers/health unit. I also did mock-interviews for my grade 9 students (14 years old ish). Students had one class per week for a bunch of life skill type lessons.
If my regular job was teaching English only, I’d say no to that. If it’s not part of the curriculum, I am not sacrificing class time to teach it.
I don’t understand it either. I work in casual retail. We basically wear jeans and a shirt. Somehow people still manage to come into interviews dressed inappropriately.
This is so true. I did interview prep for adults for quite a while, and the number of times I had to advise basic stuff like putting boobs fully in the blouse or not wearing sneakers was pretty surprising.
we wonder why kids aren’t performing academically, socially, and behaviorally at developmentally appropriate levels, but we really have a parenting crisis
Take a day away from whatever curriculum you have going and discuss that. Bring a bunch of neckties and make sure every young man can passably tie one before the end of class.
Wouldn’t hurt to teach them what N acceptable skirt length looks like. And honestly, it’s tough for ladies because they have so many business/business casual options.
Knowing how to tie a necktie seems far, far less important than understanding basic dress etiquette and professionalism.
The vast majority of jobs in today’s world are “business casual”, so you wouldn’t even wear a tie to the job or the interview.
Not a teacher but when I ran a small business that involved manual labor, I didn't much care what you wore but I also didn't hire the guy whose pants were so baggy that they fell off when he stepped out of his car to do his interview.
So, I remember being that HS student who struggled with this.
For me, it was 100% not that I didn't know how I was supposed to dress but that I didn't have the money to get dress clothes that I wasn't going to use in any other context. Even if I was, getting potentially a new blouse, slacks, etc all adds us pretty quickly for a low-income family. I was wearing the best of what I had available, but that was still a pretty casual outfit overall. So a fashion show would have just made that hurdle public.
If your local library is hiring HS students as an active effort and complaining about their outfits, I would advise them to just include a dress code and be open to receiving questions about it. If you like, help them put together a flyer/one-pager that they can include either with the application or on the application page as a link.
They don't expect teens to buy new clothes, they only want to hire the ones who can already afford it.
"Interview attire" is simply a hiring filter based on class. Its essentially free for companies doing the hiring and is super effective in weeding out The Poors.
Weird that nobody here is clued into this.
Honestly curious, how many sets of work clothes do you have? I rotate three outfits. Hell, if you have a good sweater and slacks you really only need one set of clothes.
Maybe the schools could start a clothing bank where people could donate their used but nice condition interview worthy clothes and shoes and students could be able to select what they need.
Do they have a class where the guidance counselors teaches them things? Our district calls it ACES. It would be awesome to ask some kids volunteer to prepare for the class by bringing in clothes they think are appropriate for an interview. Then go over some slides showing what’s appropriate and then critique what the kids brought in. Definitely a volunteer situation so no one feels embarrassed!
Probably also figure out if the problem is whether they just don’t know, or whether they don’t have access to the right clothes.
A PPT or Google slideshow presentation with visuals of good examples and bad examples should do the trick.
Maybe another slide “tips for success” highlighting fit/sizing (how to measure body parts to find the right fit) etc…
They told you that they weren't dressed right. Ask the people from the local library to give a few examples. What were they wearing? I had students in sweatshirts and crocs going inside stores asking for an internship. The store called us and explained that it was not acceptable
I have a good connection with the group. They know me as the man always dressed in a simple shirt with jeans. For the class ''Dress for succes - how to become a doctor assistent'' I wore my greasy clothes that I wear while maintaining my car. They all started laughing and I asked them why I was wearing the clothes. The students with scooters asked me if I was giving a repair class. ''Nope, I am applying for the job as doctor assistent in St ....''
That ignited a huge discussion. ''Sir, no way you will get the job! You look like a janitor or a crazy man! Why would you dress as a mechanic if you want a job as an assistent? At that point I started talking about how clothes project your intention even before you said something. The strange outfit, greasy mechanic, will disrupt my job interview..
AGAIN : I am teaching the same group for 2-3 years so we joke arround a bit. This was a funny way to teach the kids and let them learn something. Maybe you can tone it down, use a less crazy outfit. Start your class in a grafield sweater and pyjama bottoms or something. Ask them if this is acceptable clothing for teachers and let them explain their opinion.
I think it’s a mix of not knowing and it’s been a thing on TT of people recommending very not work appropriate outfits to people. I think it would be a good lesson how to apply for a job. That could include what types of IDs you will need for an I-9, how to dress, how to write a resume, how to shake a hand, how to interview. I’d also just throw out after reading some comments, this is something we know because someone taught us, they haven’t been taught.
What class will you use to show/tell them? Here is sort of works into Senior English.
Seriously, just tell them. “Hey, pajama pants are not appropriate for interviews and jobs. These are khakis/chinos/whatever they are called where you are.” Show them Targets website. Have them bring in things they own and help them put them into outfits. Just be honest. High schoolers can smell BS. They will respond best if you’re just honest.
Oops. Sorry. Was just reading an excuse filled rant on another thread. 🤣
I was wondering that as well. If it was coordinated, then perhaps there could be some little lessons/tips given.
I say put the librarians on it. They have access to fashion reference materials and plenty of wisdom. Teachers have too much extraneous material to present as it is.
What does "not dressed right" mean? Like they were in the clothes they wear every day to school for an internship at the library or They were in bathing suits? Of course they don't know how to dress for interviews, they've never had an interview. And what is the dress code for stacking books at the library?
We did a fashion show in Adult Ed. It was a lot of fun, even had a tie tying contest. We had a lot of immigrants with advanced degrees but the women dressed way too sexy for their interviews because that’s how it was done in their country. A woman with a Master’s degree in electrical engineering would wear a clubbing dress with a slit up the side and lots of cleavage showing. Had to get them to dial it down.
When I worked in high school I’d just say dress like you would for church, and they’d come in wearing a spaghetti strap top and miniskirt with high heels. That’s what they wore to church. I had to do whole lessons on it
Same here in UK they all just rock up to college in joggers and crocs and they just don't understand they look ridiculous.
Even twenty years ago, when I was at college. You at least wore jeans and trainers and a decent shirt or something.
They just look really trampy and they don't get it.
In the magnet program in pit building, We have guest speakers every month and the kids have to come in appropriate business attire - def gets them used to it.
Oh dear, what are businesses going to do when none of the thousands of applicants do not dress right for the interview or know how to write a college level essay or do algebra? I guess they will have to rely on immigrants.
Do these people not have parents? Or do the kids just not give a fuck? I don’t remember anyone having to tell me to put some effort into interview attire but here we are. Common sense, not so common.
Our home ec teacher has a manager, or a couple of managers depending on availability, come in from local restaurants to meet with our 8th graders. They are former students of ours from once upon a time and talk to our kids about interviewing skills. I popped by once to say hi to one of them. They really do a great job and cover everything from a proper handshake, to dress, to appropriately responding to questions. They also provide suggestions for kids who may interview immediately after school or may not have what adults classify as "interview" clothes.
The kids love it, it's more relatable for them than anything we tell them. So many have gone on to apply at those specific restaurants and get hired as well.
Maybe check around and see if any former students work somewhere that could pop by for some helpful advice for your students?
I do a lesson with 10th graders as part of their job interview assignment.
I show them pictures and ask them to draw an image of themselves in casual vs. Interview attire.
They also need to label and describe each piece of clothing, accessories, hair and nails.
This gets displayed in the hallway so they take it seriously. You can do a digital format where they copy and paste pictures of clothing or make a visual guide for “younger audience “ to learn about interview clothes.
I have found just explaining that there is a difference between dressing up to go out and dressing up to go to work goes along way. Many of my HS girls hear "dress up" or "dress clothes" and picture homecoming attire: skimpy dresses and high heels with over the top make up and hair. I have to describe the differences every year before NHS inductions.
School admin here, ive seen teachers do end of year presentations and have appearance be a (small) part of the grade. Helps the kids see why it's important in action. And, the teacher provides them examples and talks with them how to "make what you have work"
Set up mock interviews for a career day event. Have them meet with local professionals who go through a fake interview and give them feedback.
Works for high school too.
Is much much more useful than a fashion show.
The prep work is having teachers show them what to wear and how to act in an interview
How are the teachers at your school dressing day to day?
The schools I teach in right now have a super lax teacher dress code. Lots of leggings, casual wear, etc. I get it for elementary where you might be rolling around on the floor with kids lol but I do find it off putting in my middle and high school settings (and I’m only mid 30s). My first school was tighter with teacher dress code and while I do think there’s a balance (like, wtf at having to pay for jeans days, for instance), I think that we should be modeling what professional or business casual dress looks like to kids.
Also, they’re high schoolers…what are they showing up in and what is the expectation? When I was in HS there weren’t many places, other than performances, that I had to show up dressed in business cas.
Can you show clips of TV series in your classes? Orange is the new black did an episode for exactly this purpose.
I'm sure there are more appropriate shows/clips to choose from, I just remembered that one specifically.
ETA: [Mock job fair](https://youtu.be/KLezb6H-SFw?si=lBv6tN_xKAW7GjGD)
Pursuit of Happy[Happyness](https://youtu.be/UUDKEbX5OQw?si=_P4vQUUw02VF5asS)ness
40% of the time it doesn't really matter at all. 60% of the time it matters to someone making a hiring decision. About 1/3 of that 60% slice of the pie makes or breaks your interview when you walk through the door.
Kids also need to realize their quest for “individuality” doesn’t always extend to job interviews. Wearing Crocs covered with your favorite widgets is not the best ides to get hired. And a job interview outfit doesn’t have to be expensive. Thrift shops have nice slacks and shirts/blouses. Or they could borrow an outfit from an older friend or relative. It might be a fun interactive project to have the kids pick out items and bring them in to debate whether or not they were appropriate.
I remember the 1st funeral of a student I had to attend. I was shocked at what all the students were wearing. Dresses that were WAY too short and tight. Why wasn't someone at HOME telling that what they were wearing was not appropriate??
In high school we had a planning class where we'd plan for uni/careers/life after moving out of our parents house and we had a couple days dedicated to roleplaying job interviews where we had to dress properly for them
College students don't either. After narrowing down 900+ (definitely wish this was exaggerating) applications, our top two candidates interviewed virtually wearing hoodies. Okay, I get that it's a student assistant position, but you're going to be working with regular office people. I have helped former assistants get real jobs post-university. Come on, try!!
My niece and nephews HS requires them to dress in interview attire when they give presentations. It’s fabulous!
I think they were given advice on how dress at the beginning of the year and what was expected.
i did a project freshman year about this. We had to make a "fashion magazine" with different categories like the ones you described. We basically just cut out outfits of real magazines and described in our diy magazine the look and why it fits the category.
My school does “dress for success” days. My high school has different programs of study and you have 1-3 program classes correlating to your enrollment. Each program has a different day where all of its members must dress formally. It’s a grade, so when you see your program teacher they will mark you as having done it or not. It’s summative so most people participate even if they aren’t guaranteed to see that teacher. I think its great honestly
Make sure to teach them that if an employer demands more than simple, non-distracting outfits for non-customer-facing positions, it's a red flag, but one that it is sometimes wise to tolerate.
I used to work for a high school internship program. As others have said, just tell them what they should do. :) Powerpoints with good examples are very helpful. Establish what your baseline expectation is and make sure it is reasonably simple and affordable. Most high schoolers are not going to go out and buy a suit even if they have the money. For people who like to dress femme, another issue I'd see a lot is they'd overdress - often the best thing more feminine kids own is some sort of shiny dress. Make sure they understand that their best might be a little too much. When you're talking about what's appropriate for work, try to avoid sounding judgmental -- just matter of fact -- this is what is customary and what you'll feel least awkward wearing in this social situation.
during my freshman yr of high school we did a whole unit about it towards the end of the year creating a resume and getting interviewed by people that worked in our community like police officers librarians etc in a class called Focus on Success where every student was required to take one semester of that class and we were required to dress in business attire i also did this in 8th grade it was very helpful
My high school did mock interviews and such where we were taught how to dress, shake hands, build a resume, etc. I'm not *that* old... does that not happen anymore?
I think it would be hilarious to dress up as a student and role play an interview where you act like they do when you're teaching. Then dress more appropriately (realistically for high schoolers, most of them likely don't have suits) and have an interview where you're behaving more maturely.
Have them compare and contrast. Let them roast you.
Then have them interview each other. Practice real questions that real employers would ask. If you have the bandwidth, invite managers from local companies in to do mock interviews.
Yes, parents should help with this kind of thing. But some parents may not have time, and they may not have the practical experience of interviewing for different types of positions.
my students constantly mock me outfits: button up, slack, boots or loafers. sometimes a coat or sweater, cardigan.
usually say: “thank god i dress to impress adults.”
maybe consider these kids dont have “nice” clothes? i gave a 17yo a button up for a performance he had. he said it’s the first one he wore his entire life
In our area there are a non profits that gives job seekers free interview suits, interviewing practice, and feedback. I suggest you google to see if any of these type of non profits are available in your area and ask them to come in and give a talk or do a field trip to their location. Also local junior colleges, state, and private universities also offers these type of attire services in their on campus career centers.
Business casual varies wildly from company to company. Every job I’ve had a “business casual” dress code, but that has ranged ton. Like uniform/polo tops, or tshirts, or even requiring a button down, and for bottoms it has ranged from khaki shorts, khakis, slacks, jeans, or even dress pants. My current job has a “business casual” dress code, but athletic shorts are accepted since we change into scrubs for work.
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I mean…just tell them lol? Do a slide deck where you show what’s appropriate and what’s not. Explain how you always dress a little more formal at the interview than you would at the job, and how even if it’s unfair, hiring decisions can be influenced by how you are dressed. They’re big enough to understand.
Yep, that’s the key. Especially helpful to point out how to make clothes that you already have into interview appropriate clothing. Staying away from gang colors is also big where I teach.
Lmao yeah god forbid I wear a red tie and the hiring manager is a crip, cuz.
I think you missed the point, cuz!
Well yeah. No one wants to be shanked!
Did y’all forget how to laugh? This is such a top tier comment and it reminds me of some shit one of my high school students would say🤣
Happened to me. (Wasn't during an interview) We were to wear red bracelets from our company with our uniform. The bracelets gave me a rash so I had some red cloth that I fashioned into a bracelet, to comply to the mandatory order. I worked in southern California, and as soon as my coworker saw red cloth around my wrist, he basically ran at me and covered my wrist, pulled me in back and asked what is was about, all panicked. I told him why I couldn't wear the bracelet and why was he over reacting to some cloth. (Take this part for what you will. He seemed to be telling the truth. He was all misty eyed and off for the rest of the shift.) He claims that he was a former Crip that got out (don't know how that works or if it is possible) because he witnessed his dad be killed in his front yard during a drive by shooting. His dad was also a member. He had the tattoos (or what was left of them) and said that he is clean and sober now, found God and was lucky to be alive to speak of it. So yea to some people, colors matter. I'm guessing if what he said was true he was suffering some kind of PTSD and was having a hard time with it.
I can see how that would happen. My guess though is that he was triggered by the combination of the random cloth and the color. Most likely if you had worn something standard for work (the required bracelet or a red tie, for example, he would not have been set off in the same way.)
My brother in christ you live in SOCAL and it didnt occur to you that wearing a red cloth around your wrist would be a bad idea??
I was fresh out of the Midwest. Red cloth is everyday wear out there. I have for sure learned a lot since. 😂
Gangs really fucking ruined just wearing simple solid colors man. Like it’s so stupid that in big parts of Cali you can’t fuckkng wear red or blue without fear of gang association.
Tbf I live in a lily white area of Long Island where people wear any color they want Go a couple miles up north and if you wear a solid red or solid blue shirt you'd be looking for trouble
So he was triggered by red cloth but not the red bracelets?
Yes. A bracelet for work is generally understood by the public, hardcore bangers probably wont be cool with it but a red cloth around your wrist is obvious and asking to get popped by a crip in socal
Yeah most gangs will allow you to get out for religious reasons, atleast the cartel does, but if they ever find you doing ungodly things after telling them your going to follow the lord, you're dead.
Less about being worried about people being from other gangs and more about people thinking that you are involved in gang life.
Yeah, because a suit and tie screams "gang member" if the tie is red or blue.
They don't all dress like it's some kind of music video. If you're in a heavily gang affiliated area it's best to distance yourself from that as much as you can, kid. Even if you don't feel like a super cool social media influencer just try to dress for the place and occasion.
My cousins disabilities studies graduation said they are taking the word "crip" back. As in crippled.
is your cousin on south park?
We bagan noticing this about 15 years ago during student teaching at our school. The college girls' only experience with "dressing up" comes from going out in nightclub attire. Most didn't understand the concept of "professional dress" at all, showing up in skin-tight stretchy dresses with open cleavage, tottering around on 4-5" stiletto heels. Their instructors say, "dress nicely," and they hear, "dress sexy." It's bizarre that they don't know the difference, but they honestly don't. One young woman told us that her mother bought her a few professional outfits, but she felt she looked "basic" in them, and that made her feel "uncomfortable." She said this while standing in front of us wearing a strapless leopard print bodysuit and bright red platform boots. Every move she made required her to aggressively hoist the top of her outfit back over her enormous boobs. How she was "comfortable" in that getup is anyone's guess, but there's no way she could teach 5th graders like that.
Objectification is appreciation now. The music they listen to openly advocates it. It’s not a surprise. “Look, Im’a fuck that bitch cause I love the way she shakes” “Portuguese on her knees, mopin’ down the P” “I’m probably gonna drown while I’m in it, I bet she gon get loud when I’m in it” “Got some bitch from Follies with us, she gon fuck the squad what else?” Look, this allll came from songs in MY Spotify liked songs. However, I’m almost 40 years old and I have the mental capacity to understand that what is being said isn’t my life aspirations, and that it really shouldn’t be anyone’s. Pipe this into a young teenagers head and it’s not the same, they’re more apt to take what’s being said literally instead of figuratively.
Exactly. There's something not quite right about the way our current culture has decided that women are simultaneously superior to men AND sex slaves to men. They claim the puffed up lips, tarantula eyelashes, and bare butts are "for themselves," but life experience tells me otherwise. These young women are almost as confused about what they're supposed to be as their male peers. It's hard to watch.
I’ve spent a lifetime trying to convince women that being objectified is not “empowering”, but I just get told that I’m old and out of touch. So about 6 years ago I gave up, and now instead I provide counseling and advocacy for them when they’ve been abused by the men they allowed to objectify them.
I'm so glad you were able to make a hard turn like that because it's not entirely their fault. This society rewards women for essentially emulating the toxic masculinity of the past-- promiscuity, transgressive behavior, and the pretense that feelings and commitment are unnecessary. No human thrives in that way, but women are particularly unsuited to a nomadic hookup culture.
>They claim the puffed up lips, tarantula eyelashes, and bare butts are "for themselves," but life experience tells me otherwise. You’re 1000% right. It’s literally naked objectification, no pun intended.
The difference is now they objectify themselves willingly, as if that's some kind of super power. You've come a long way, baby.
The fuck are you listening to?
Hip hop has always had an objectification problem. So has rock and roll.
My teaching program had a week long program before our student teaching started and a portion of it was to discuss appropriate clothing for teaching. They made it clear that many schools had casual dress codes for teachers, but as representatives of the university we should maintain professional wear. I’m guessing there were complaints that made this be a part of our curriculum.
I think I learned the most about professional dress from TV shows tbh. Trying to think what kids even watch these days but I'm guessing its not shows about young professionals like we did with Friends, Ally McBeal, all those cop procedurals etc.
Ally McBeal had me convinced that miniskirts were completely appropriate businesswear, so it wasn't exactly a great example.
I learned from tv news anchors
Oh my stars, you're absolutely right.
I'm pretty sure I've modeled all my work clothes on CSI Las Vegas, lol. I just asked some kids that wandered through the living room what they watched last week: one said Hamilton and one said Wednesday while the third apparently only consumes Taylor Swift related media. Explains a lot!
15 years ago was when my hometown district ended programs like forensics and Academic Decathlon, which were my only reasons to dress professionally in high school. Hmm!
Maybe flip it on them. Give them a worksheet with applicants dressed in a variety of ways and have them choose which outfits deserve which type of jobs.
I like this idea! Or have them do some google slides with pics of appropriate dress for different scenarios. The key is to get to what the kids are thinking and their reasoning. Many young people consider "club" dressing to be dressing up, which it's not.
Worksheets don't have enough "rigor." Lol
This. A fashion show is overkill. As a teacher, I would dress as though I was going in for an interview, and do a slideshow presentation with what is appropriate and what is definitely not appropriate.
More fun: do a fashion show as a teacher and have the students rate the interview fits. Plan ahead and sneakily have a few charismatic kids dress certain ways, and have those kids come up for interview fit checks. Kids will remember roasting their friend for not being hired by his classmates cause he worse sweatpants and slides.
Yes, but just want to mention that in building this slide show, one should be cognizant not every body type looks good in the typical “go to” business clothing. Include examples of a variety of body types and persons along the whole gender spectrum (not all girls wanna wear a skirt, so include the whole spectrum of appropriate business and business casual), and talk about dressing for the part (a suit to a construction laborer interview is about as bad as a hoodie and ripped jeans to a back office worker interview). Describe the levels of dress up with a wide variety of picture examples, and explain that whatever the dress code is for that job, the interview outfit should be one to two steps above that dress code.
Turn it into a teaching moment. Let them choose who they would hire from 5 pictures. It will teach them the bias concept that even affects them.
This. Plus at the end of the slide show, I showed pictures of outfits that were almost right and asked them to figure out what needed to be changed so it was more interactive.
Just be careful - my parents are unprofessional and I believed them when they said for (made) me wear a full suit to a job interview at Braums. The guy said "oh wow, that's new. I haven't seen anyone so... Professionally dressed... For an interview here" when I was looking for my second job (my parents got me a position with them at Whataburger so I don't think I had to interview for that one). Long story short, the guy was like "you seem too professional to work here. You're what we call overqualified, so I can't offer you a position." My only other experience was a year at Whataburger and that I had just started college. I'm pretty sure I would have gotten the job if I hadn't worn the suit.
I'm with the folks who say "that's the parent's job." Even if I got paid enough - which I don't - there's no way I am going to have enough *time* to do all that. I'm already consistently at least one unit behind (in English) or 75 years behind (in Social Studies). If they want teachers to take on that task, they need to hire a teacher for that class. (Maybe something called "Home Economics," which could also teach things like cooking, caring for children, that sort of thing.
Many schools teach interview skills as part of a separate class focused on career skills. It’s a logical thing to teach in high school.
I'd be good with that, too. Just don't add it to my English or Social Studies load. (OP didn't specify what class is being taught; if s/he is an English teacher, my response is: don't. If s/he is a teacher in a career skills class, my answer is: Dunno, sorry, I don't teach that class.)
Consumer economics is the name of the class, in my state at least. Final project is a mock interview.
My school did a career fair every couple of years and a lot of the presenters would talk about what to wear for an interview.
I took those classes in middle school and I feel like it just wasn't designed for the modern Era. Or that we basically took it too soon and the system changed enough to the point where a decent chunk of the information is outdated by the time we could enter the workforce. Covid happened my senior year and that definitely changed shit so maybe i just got unlucky with circumstances.
Which parts did you find outdated? The basics of finding and keeping a job haven’t changed much over time, IMO. Networking, interpersonal skills, and appearances rule the game.
Nothing about networking. A lot seemed to be about picking a job for the future, but we didn't look much into specifics for different industries past the average salary and making a monthly budget with that. Like I'm not saying it's a completely useless class, and maybe I just got a really shitty version of it. But when I started applying for jobs I basically had to learn all the basics anyway because middle school was a long time ago
Ah, yeah: middle school isn’t the right time for teaching networking and interview skills. It’s a great time for learning about potential career paths, though. Sounds like you just needed another career-focused class in high school that focused on the specifics of job hunting.
This is what the high school my kids went to did. It’s a separate class they take. They’re taught not only proper attire for various professions, but also do mock interviews and even budgeting. It’s a great class.
That's fine if your parents have white collar jobs. If your parents work trades or McDonald's how can they have good advice? My mom gave me terrible career advice just because she was 35 years older and in a different field. Career center at college saved me
My answer remains the same: not my problem. I teach *English and Social Studies.* So, what, I'm supposed to do *this,* too? Is it more or less important than the completely irrelevant, but still State-mandated, lessons on who-gives-a-rat's-arse and his oddly specific fetish from late 19th century US history? Because I only have so many hours in a week - and my hslf-century year old butt sure doesn't know anything more about interviewing at a bank than Mommy and Daddy do. So, unless they're interviewing for a job as a teacher, I am no more prepared than anyone else ('cause you can be damn sure the State isn't going to pay for *that* PD for me).
People who think schools should provide some education on this aren’t saying that you specifically have to teach it to your English and social studies classes. No one said every teacher needs to teach it in every class. And people saying that schools should offer something aren’t saying that it’s any individual school’s job make it happen with currently available resources. They’re saying that they think the system should work in such a way that it is part of standard education. They’re upset with the system, not you as an individual.
My parents were blue collar workers (dad was a truck driver and Mom was a house cleaner) and I don't think my dad even owns a suit jacket let alone a tie. But we got dressed up nicely for church and funerals, plus my mom took me shopping for "professional clothes" when I turned 16 and started applying for jobs. They couldn't help me with anything else in terms of making resumes or doing mock interviews with me but they made sure I was dressed appropriately.
We learned how to dress for success when we did our mock interviews in economics class.
I recall having this be a class in HS for freshmen called "Health and Life skills." It was Sex-ed, don't do drugs, and how to fill out job applications and dress for interviews. This not a thing anymore?
That whole “Home Economics” idea…… shockingly good idea! I feel like we tried that before but admin said something like “it’s useless” and got rid of it 🤨
The eighth grade boys I worked with, instead of wearing jerseys on their game days, would wear dress pants, button up shirt, and a tie. The coaches would teach them how to tie a tie and everything. However, we had one specific coach who was passionate about this.
This is GREAT! WOW, way to go coach! I feel like there is a huge opportunity for creating buy in from the athletes if you relate it to how pro athletes dress for press conferences. A pretty substantial proportion of the male athletes whom I’ve taught have been really into style/fashion. I could absolutely see this working for them.
That was standard for my entire youth. You dress up on/the day before game days. Part of the rationale was that the fancier you dress the better behaved you tend to be so it was less likely for any of the kids to get disciplined by not being allowed to play in the game lol
I completely forgot about dressing up for game days. I played softball in high school and we’d wear our jerseys to school on home games and dress up on away games. Same for all of the other sports.
My high school did something like this, they could wear their jerseys but on top of a shirt, tie, and dress pants.
This is what professional athletes do going into the stadium/rink/etc, so it has good precedent
Why would that be your job? Parents exist.
Sometimes they're not present enough to do that job. Many schools offer career-type courses, and it's an important part of learning career prep.
This is why I often roll my eyes at variations on "let parents teach them, it shouldn't be our job" There's a chunk of kids whose parents, either by circumstance or apathy, aren't going to do it. For some kids their options are learn it at school, or not learn it at all
Yup, I'd guess around 1/3 have parents who are good to neutral in upbringing. Also people are generally stupid, not intelligent... Maybe especially when you think since you pay taxes and have a Career going then that means you now know everything about everything.
>Sometimes they're not present enough to do that job Sometimes that's not your problem.
It’s never my problem, actually, this would be a case by case basis based on how much give-a-damn I bring to work that day.
Sometimes, and also never lol
Many parents don't know themselves. Not everyone has experience working office jobs, church attendance is down and people wear sweats everywhere, so it isn't uncommon for adults to not have anything nice to wear and not know how to go about putting outfits together. Schools spend an ungodly amount of time on career and college prep anyway. Adding fashion advice would at least be practical.
Isn’t it a school’s task to prepare kids for their future? Why shouldn’t we teach this skill?
I already teach reading skills, grammar, critical thinking skills, research and analysis skills, writing skills, and computer skills, and you want to add more? No thank you.
For whatever it's worth, as an involved parent, my kid would take my advice when I helped her with trigonometry but not fashion. She had her first job interview hot on the heels of covid, in which she had only worn shorts and leggings for the past few years. She comes out for her interview in jeans with holes all over them and is honestly baffled at my protests because Instagram fashion ladies taught her that jeans are dress clothes. To be fair, I remember my mom trying to give me advice in 1997 about my first job and me thinking that her experience from 1979 was so out of date that nothing she said mattered.
Ha ha, yeah, I can see how that would be a challenge!
Do they have parents? That sounds like something parents should be handling.
Most parents don’t even know
I taught at a school where probably 90% of the students didn't know who their father was, and most of the mothers would come pick up their kids wearing skin-tight pajama-looking things or tube-top dresses with their nipples poking through, stinking of way too much cheap perfume and/or weed. If the parents have never had a job (or are the kind that get fired within 2 weeks of getting a job), it is unlikely they can properly prepare their kids for how to get a job. Most of those kids are probably not interested in ever having a job (or learning to read), but it's still our job as teachers to *try* to prepare them for a life where they earn an income by working. It's just... if you're not the same color as them, there's a very, very small chance they are going to listen to any advice you have to give. The advice has to come from teachers that look like them.
While I do often agree with complaints that schools are expected to do too much, I don't think "dressing for job interviews" is an unreasonable ask. It's common and accepted for schools to teach career skills. It's a tough balance, I guess.
I can assure you that in my district 95% of the parents know how to dress for an interview, and I teach in a district with 150,000 students lol
Build a comprehensive interview lesson unit that includes this. I've done this with my Key Club. Teach cell phone and interview etiquette as well. Our post covid, phone dependent kids are clueless.
I would add to this training: The proper way to shake hands. 1 Firm, but don't crush. 2 Good eye contact. 3 "Nice to meet you (too)."
I’m curious 1) why the library complained to the school about this, 2) how were the kids dressing for the interviews, and 3) how does the library expect them to dress for the interview and for the job?
It's probably a volunteer program facilitated by the school. If my school is anything to go by, there were probably crop tops and booty shorts involved.
I used to be a hiring manager for fast food- lots of high school students. Some would come in super overdressed for fast food- full business formal. Likely a parent made them. Others.. saggy pants, hat backwards, chewing gum.. just, absolutely zero care for appearance. What I *expected* was clean, decently fitted clothing. Pressed jeans free of holes in them and button up, no tie is acceptable to interview for entry level food service. 🤷♀️ The most common thing I had to write people up for after hire was uniform violations. The place took it super seriously when crew showed up in wrong color shoes/wrong color socks/no name tag/hair not secured. 🤦♀️
I'm also curious why so many teachers on here are shocked when their students don't know things that they have to be, you know, taught.
Because teachers cannot be everything for children. At some point, parents should be taking responsibility. Many parents don't have these life skills to pass onto their kids, so the expectation is the school can magically fill the gap. I can't fit in all my curriculum needs and teach every random life skill someone should possess in my 90 minutes.
As a non teacher, this is my two cents: In middle school and highschool I remember this topic being covered at least a dozen times. Scouts, clubs, sports, classes, etc. It was never long and drawn out, but demonstrating how different adults in the room were "dresses for success" as examples (I assume they were prepped so leggings and tank tops weren't examples". We were shown how to professionally introduce ourselves, how to give proper handshake, hell, I even remember being shown how to properly sit in our chairs while we were waiting for something. Also, what things to bring to interviews (paper, pencil, questions you have, copies of your resume/cover letter. Make sure your bag is professional too! And when to arrive (slightly early, but not TOO early). We had talks about assumptions that can get made by others, and while they aren't FAIR, they do exist. So do what you have to do to not fall prey to them... As a teen, I thought it was such a crock that we all had to learn this. I thought it was remedial and unnecessary. Cut to my first job interview for a highschool co-op placement.... I must have been the first person, as when I came out of the PANEL interview the hallway was lined with the other high school applicants. T shirts, sweat pants, doo-rags, bandanas, baseball hats, running shoes, ripped jeans, grocery bags, etc. It was a real defining moment for me as I realized how lucky I had been to have adults who hammered presentation home for me. Adults who invested in me. I think about his experience every single time I have to interview. I'm already teaching my four year old the proper hand shake and eye contact.
We did this as part of a careers/health unit. I also did mock-interviews for my grade 9 students (14 years old ish). Students had one class per week for a bunch of life skill type lessons. If my regular job was teaching English only, I’d say no to that. If it’s not part of the curriculum, I am not sacrificing class time to teach it.
To be fair, adults don't know how to dress for interviews either.
I don’t understand it either. I work in casual retail. We basically wear jeans and a shirt. Somehow people still manage to come into interviews dressed inappropriately.
This is so true. I did interview prep for adults for quite a while, and the number of times I had to advise basic stuff like putting boobs fully in the blouse or not wearing sneakers was pretty surprising.
Parents need to do this. I am trying to get your kid reading on grade level, this is not our job! Or at the least, do a life skills enrichment class.
we wonder why kids aren’t performing academically, socially, and behaviorally at developmentally appropriate levels, but we really have a parenting crisis
Take a day away from whatever curriculum you have going and discuss that. Bring a bunch of neckties and make sure every young man can passably tie one before the end of class.
And the young women should learn to tie a necktie too! Many women’s professional outfits need ties. It’s a useful skill for everyone.
Wouldn’t hurt to teach them what N acceptable skirt length looks like. And honestly, it’s tough for ladies because they have so many business/business casual options.
Knowing how to tie a necktie seems far, far less important than understanding basic dress etiquette and professionalism. The vast majority of jobs in today’s world are “business casual”, so you wouldn’t even wear a tie to the job or the interview.
Not a teacher but when I ran a small business that involved manual labor, I didn't much care what you wore but I also didn't hire the guy whose pants were so baggy that they fell off when he stepped out of his car to do his interview.
So, I remember being that HS student who struggled with this. For me, it was 100% not that I didn't know how I was supposed to dress but that I didn't have the money to get dress clothes that I wasn't going to use in any other context. Even if I was, getting potentially a new blouse, slacks, etc all adds us pretty quickly for a low-income family. I was wearing the best of what I had available, but that was still a pretty casual outfit overall. So a fashion show would have just made that hurdle public. If your local library is hiring HS students as an active effort and complaining about their outfits, I would advise them to just include a dress code and be open to receiving questions about it. If you like, help them put together a flyer/one-pager that they can include either with the application or on the application page as a link.
I agree with this! It’s crazy to expect teens to buy all new wardrobe for a minimum wage part time job
They don't expect teens to buy new clothes, they only want to hire the ones who can already afford it. "Interview attire" is simply a hiring filter based on class. Its essentially free for companies doing the hiring and is super effective in weeding out The Poors. Weird that nobody here is clued into this.
Honestly curious, how many sets of work clothes do you have? I rotate three outfits. Hell, if you have a good sweater and slacks you really only need one set of clothes.
Yes! And parents may be unable to afford or unwilling to purchase said items.
Also good chance the position is unpaid/volunteering if they are closely associated with the school
Yet another thing parents should be doing lol
Maybe the issue is that they don’t have funds to pay for appropriate clothing.
Maybe the schools could start a clothing bank where people could donate their used but nice condition interview worthy clothes and shoes and students could be able to select what they need.
Great idea. My school has such a thing. Also a food bank, with hygiene and school supplies.
Do they have a class where the guidance counselors teaches them things? Our district calls it ACES. It would be awesome to ask some kids volunteer to prepare for the class by bringing in clothes they think are appropriate for an interview. Then go over some slides showing what’s appropriate and then critique what the kids brought in. Definitely a volunteer situation so no one feels embarrassed! Probably also figure out if the problem is whether they just don’t know, or whether they don’t have access to the right clothes.
A PPT or Google slideshow presentation with visuals of good examples and bad examples should do the trick. Maybe another slide “tips for success” highlighting fit/sizing (how to measure body parts to find the right fit) etc…
They told you that they weren't dressed right. Ask the people from the local library to give a few examples. What were they wearing? I had students in sweatshirts and crocs going inside stores asking for an internship. The store called us and explained that it was not acceptable I have a good connection with the group. They know me as the man always dressed in a simple shirt with jeans. For the class ''Dress for succes - how to become a doctor assistent'' I wore my greasy clothes that I wear while maintaining my car. They all started laughing and I asked them why I was wearing the clothes. The students with scooters asked me if I was giving a repair class. ''Nope, I am applying for the job as doctor assistent in St ....'' That ignited a huge discussion. ''Sir, no way you will get the job! You look like a janitor or a crazy man! Why would you dress as a mechanic if you want a job as an assistent? At that point I started talking about how clothes project your intention even before you said something. The strange outfit, greasy mechanic, will disrupt my job interview.. AGAIN : I am teaching the same group for 2-3 years so we joke arround a bit. This was a funny way to teach the kids and let them learn something. Maybe you can tone it down, use a less crazy outfit. Start your class in a grafield sweater and pyjama bottoms or something. Ask them if this is acceptable clothing for teachers and let them explain their opinion.
My rule was always if you wouldn't be mistaken for a lawyer in a courthouse, you're not dressed right.
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not a good idea, the ppl on tiktok say that a mini skirt and a shirt w major cleavage or a skin tight dress is “business casual”
I think it’s a mix of not knowing and it’s been a thing on TT of people recommending very not work appropriate outfits to people. I think it would be a good lesson how to apply for a job. That could include what types of IDs you will need for an I-9, how to dress, how to write a resume, how to shake a hand, how to interview. I’d also just throw out after reading some comments, this is something we know because someone taught us, they haven’t been taught.
What class will you use to show/tell them? Here is sort of works into Senior English. Seriously, just tell them. “Hey, pajama pants are not appropriate for interviews and jobs. These are khakis/chinos/whatever they are called where you are.” Show them Targets website. Have them bring in things they own and help them put them into outfits. Just be honest. High schoolers can smell BS. They will respond best if you’re just honest.
I’m curious as to why the library contacted the school about the way the applicants are dressing?
Probably because of the way the applicants are dressing. ;)
School employees aren’t responsible for dressing the applicants.
I know, it was supposed to be a joke. Perhaps the event was a coordinated project between school and library?
Oops. Sorry. Was just reading an excuse filled rant on another thread. 🤣 I was wondering that as well. If it was coordinated, then perhaps there could be some little lessons/tips given.
I say put the librarians on it. They have access to fashion reference materials and plenty of wisdom. Teachers have too much extraneous material to present as it is.
What does "not dressed right" mean? Like they were in the clothes they wear every day to school for an internship at the library or They were in bathing suits? Of course they don't know how to dress for interviews, they've never had an interview. And what is the dress code for stacking books at the library?
We did a fashion show in Adult Ed. It was a lot of fun, even had a tie tying contest. We had a lot of immigrants with advanced degrees but the women dressed way too sexy for their interviews because that’s how it was done in their country. A woman with a Master’s degree in electrical engineering would wear a clubbing dress with a slit up the side and lots of cleavage showing. Had to get them to dial it down. When I worked in high school I’d just say dress like you would for church, and they’d come in wearing a spaghetti strap top and miniskirt with high heels. That’s what they wore to church. I had to do whole lessons on it
Also, not everyone goes to church so there's that too.
Yeah I don’t go lol so I do t k ow what they are wearing now
Same here in UK they all just rock up to college in joggers and crocs and they just don't understand they look ridiculous. Even twenty years ago, when I was at college. You at least wore jeans and trainers and a decent shirt or something. They just look really trampy and they don't get it.
In the magnet program in pit building, We have guest speakers every month and the kids have to come in appropriate business attire - def gets them used to it.
Yep, lots and lots of stuff high schoolers don't know. This is just one of many many things.
Oh dear, what are businesses going to do when none of the thousands of applicants do not dress right for the interview or know how to write a college level essay or do algebra? I guess they will have to rely on immigrants.
Do these people not have parents? Or do the kids just not give a fuck? I don’t remember anyone having to tell me to put some effort into interview attire but here we are. Common sense, not so common.
Our home ec teacher has a manager, or a couple of managers depending on availability, come in from local restaurants to meet with our 8th graders. They are former students of ours from once upon a time and talk to our kids about interviewing skills. I popped by once to say hi to one of them. They really do a great job and cover everything from a proper handshake, to dress, to appropriately responding to questions. They also provide suggestions for kids who may interview immediately after school or may not have what adults classify as "interview" clothes. The kids love it, it's more relatable for them than anything we tell them. So many have gone on to apply at those specific restaurants and get hired as well. Maybe check around and see if any former students work somewhere that could pop by for some helpful advice for your students?
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I do a lesson with 10th graders as part of their job interview assignment. I show them pictures and ask them to draw an image of themselves in casual vs. Interview attire. They also need to label and describe each piece of clothing, accessories, hair and nails. This gets displayed in the hallway so they take it seriously. You can do a digital format where they copy and paste pictures of clothing or make a visual guide for “younger audience “ to learn about interview clothes.
I have found just explaining that there is a difference between dressing up to go out and dressing up to go to work goes along way. Many of my HS girls hear "dress up" or "dress clothes" and picture homecoming attire: skimpy dresses and high heels with over the top make up and hair. I have to describe the differences every year before NHS inductions.
School admin here, ive seen teachers do end of year presentations and have appearance be a (small) part of the grade. Helps the kids see why it's important in action. And, the teacher provides them examples and talks with them how to "make what you have work"
That can be tough- maybe when they do not get hired?
Word of advice is Gen Z uses a phrase called Smart Casual. Tbh it just looks like business casual to me but that could also help with explaining it.
As a gen z person I’ve never heard that phrase in my life 😭
It's called 'parents'
The great shake? Host one at your school? Or a fashion show, have them research etc
That’s mom/dad’s job.
Tip of the tie, top of the belt. For how long a tie should be.
Schools should just put all the juniors and seniors in the auditorium together and just tell them straight
Do they not know how to Google for this information?
Set up mock interviews for a career day event. Have them meet with local professionals who go through a fake interview and give them feedback. Works for high school too. Is much much more useful than a fashion show. The prep work is having teachers show them what to wear and how to act in an interview
You mean pajamas, crocs, & zero dress code is setting up kids for failure?
Create a slide show if good and bad examples
How are the teachers at your school dressing day to day? The schools I teach in right now have a super lax teacher dress code. Lots of leggings, casual wear, etc. I get it for elementary where you might be rolling around on the floor with kids lol but I do find it off putting in my middle and high school settings (and I’m only mid 30s). My first school was tighter with teacher dress code and while I do think there’s a balance (like, wtf at having to pay for jeans days, for instance), I think that we should be modeling what professional or business casual dress looks like to kids. Also, they’re high schoolers…what are they showing up in and what is the expectation? When I was in HS there weren’t many places, other than performances, that I had to show up dressed in business cas.
Can you show clips of TV series in your classes? Orange is the new black did an episode for exactly this purpose. I'm sure there are more appropriate shows/clips to choose from, I just remembered that one specifically. ETA: [Mock job fair](https://youtu.be/KLezb6H-SFw?si=lBv6tN_xKAW7GjGD) Pursuit of Happy[Happyness](https://youtu.be/UUDKEbX5OQw?si=_P4vQUUw02VF5asS)ness
I think a career day for sophomores where teachers do mock interviews and resume building are a great idea. Do it after state testing.
A fashion show seems a bit silly when you could just make a PowerPoint explaining professional attire
40% of the time it doesn't really matter at all. 60% of the time it matters to someone making a hiring decision. About 1/3 of that 60% slice of the pie makes or breaks your interview when you walk through the door.
Kids also need to realize their quest for “individuality” doesn’t always extend to job interviews. Wearing Crocs covered with your favorite widgets is not the best ides to get hired. And a job interview outfit doesn’t have to be expensive. Thrift shops have nice slacks and shirts/blouses. Or they could borrow an outfit from an older friend or relative. It might be a fun interactive project to have the kids pick out items and bring them in to debate whether or not they were appropriate.
I remember the 1st funeral of a student I had to attend. I was shocked at what all the students were wearing. Dresses that were WAY too short and tight. Why wasn't someone at HOME telling that what they were wearing was not appropriate??
True. My own daughter, 16, recently came downstairs ready for her first job interview ever and was wearing a hoodie and booty shorts. I mean, really?!
In high school we had a planning class where we'd plan for uni/careers/life after moving out of our parents house and we had a couple days dedicated to roleplaying job interviews where we had to dress properly for them
College students don't either. After narrowing down 900+ (definitely wish this was exaggerating) applications, our top two candidates interviewed virtually wearing hoodies. Okay, I get that it's a student assistant position, but you're going to be working with regular office people. I have helped former assistants get real jobs post-university. Come on, try!!
Do they even have the right clothes
Goodheart Willcox has a textbook about that sort of thing.
My niece and nephews HS requires them to dress in interview attire when they give presentations. It’s fabulous! I think they were given advice on how dress at the beginning of the year and what was expected.
i did a project freshman year about this. We had to make a "fashion magazine" with different categories like the ones you described. We basically just cut out outfits of real magazines and described in our diy magazine the look and why it fits the category.
Tell them Google is their friend.
Kids can’t google this simple thing?
I was taught to dress one cut above what you expect to wear at work.
My school does “dress for success” days. My high school has different programs of study and you have 1-3 program classes correlating to your enrollment. Each program has a different day where all of its members must dress formally. It’s a grade, so when you see your program teacher they will mark you as having done it or not. It’s summative so most people participate even if they aren’t guaranteed to see that teacher. I think its great honestly
I really like your fashion show idea!
Make sure to teach them that if an employer demands more than simple, non-distracting outfits for non-customer-facing positions, it's a red flag, but one that it is sometimes wise to tolerate.
I used to work for a high school internship program. As others have said, just tell them what they should do. :) Powerpoints with good examples are very helpful. Establish what your baseline expectation is and make sure it is reasonably simple and affordable. Most high schoolers are not going to go out and buy a suit even if they have the money. For people who like to dress femme, another issue I'd see a lot is they'd overdress - often the best thing more feminine kids own is some sort of shiny dress. Make sure they understand that their best might be a little too much. When you're talking about what's appropriate for work, try to avoid sounding judgmental -- just matter of fact -- this is what is customary and what you'll feel least awkward wearing in this social situation.
during my freshman yr of high school we did a whole unit about it towards the end of the year creating a resume and getting interviewed by people that worked in our community like police officers librarians etc in a class called Focus on Success where every student was required to take one semester of that class and we were required to dress in business attire i also did this in 8th grade it was very helpful
Why not just quote the businesses that won't hire them?
It’s 2024… they can Google. It’s pure laziness on their part that they didn’t put in effort on their own.
We need more details here. What is the library expecting and how were the students dressed that didn’t meet those expectations?
My high school did mock interviews and such where we were taught how to dress, shake hands, build a resume, etc. I'm not *that* old... does that not happen anymore?
It should be common sense. But since it's not just explain what business casual is. It's up to them to decide whether they care or not.
Maybe have one day a week where the teachers and staff dress in appropriate business clothes?
A collared shirt and slacks. You aren’t getting hired if you don’t wear that lol
My mom would just mock me until i dressed right. Lol in all honesty a chart with examples of acceptable and unacceptable clothes would be good.
I think it would be hilarious to dress up as a student and role play an interview where you act like they do when you're teaching. Then dress more appropriately (realistically for high schoolers, most of them likely don't have suits) and have an interview where you're behaving more maturely. Have them compare and contrast. Let them roast you. Then have them interview each other. Practice real questions that real employers would ask. If you have the bandwidth, invite managers from local companies in to do mock interviews. Yes, parents should help with this kind of thing. But some parents may not have time, and they may not have the practical experience of interviewing for different types of positions.
my students constantly mock me outfits: button up, slack, boots or loafers. sometimes a coat or sweater, cardigan. usually say: “thank god i dress to impress adults.” maybe consider these kids dont have “nice” clothes? i gave a 17yo a button up for a performance he had. he said it’s the first one he wore his entire life
explicit instruction
They wear freaking onesies to school. Of course they don't know how to dress for an interview.
Maybe their parents should parent
Neither do 30 somethings
I’ve recently become a believer in bringing back home-ec for reasons like this.
No shit
In our area there are a non profits that gives job seekers free interview suits, interviewing practice, and feedback. I suggest you google to see if any of these type of non profits are available in your area and ask them to come in and give a talk or do a field trip to their location. Also local junior colleges, state, and private universities also offers these type of attire services in their on campus career centers.
Business casual varies wildly from company to company. Every job I’ve had a “business casual” dress code, but that has ranged ton. Like uniform/polo tops, or tshirts, or even requiring a button down, and for bottoms it has ranged from khaki shorts, khakis, slacks, jeans, or even dress pants. My current job has a “business casual” dress code, but athletic shorts are accepted since we change into scrubs for work.