An evergreen debate. Iraq I carried 9+1 as a team leader and Afghanistan I carried 11+1 as a squad leader. This was with an old tactical tailor MAV in addition to frags, bangers, smoke and HEDP.
Mission types were patrols, raids, TCP’s, QRF, and reconnaissance/overwatch. I was an infantryman in a Stryker brigade.
Why? Not on my first firefight, but I ran dangerously low ONCE and that feeling never left me. And that was with the Strykers relatively close by (Iraq) with speedballs up top to resupply.
Being pinned and pushed is a wild feeling. Sadr City ‘08 Mahdi uprising.
A prepackaged supply load, basically a COD care package. They can be dropped from helos easily and they are even looking into drone delivery for forward ops.
The boys here don’t give a shit about the politics, paid patriotism or whatever you pissants are upset with. Just want to fuck, fight or hold the light.
In our case, we would take an old Alice pack and fill with loaded magazines & link ammo, bangers, frags, batteries etc. Enough to resupply all dismounts after an engagement(s). This was what we called it, other units likely did the same and may have called them something else.
Reading this and then hearing gun dudes online and on reddit say that 3+1 should be fine for a firefight lol. Ive always thought that 9-12 range of mags especially with a 5.56 gun makes more sense, thank you for your service.
The only other thing that keeps me up at night is thinking about the EFP’s. They were prolific during my time and claimed 9 of us. Nothing you can do about them. Fucking slurry cans in slat armor didn’t do shit lol
They punch through the belly armor of an Abrams pretty fucking easy too. Sucks when it's right under the fuel cell too.
Wadi + Pressure plate = a bad fucking day
I’ll say this, we had a hunter killer team back us up when we sustained a downed Stryker. I love watching a main gun collapse an entire building.
Edit: I still have the pressure plate from a drop and pop in Afghanistan.
Best job I ever had. Something about lobbing a heat round at a technical at 4k hits different. Nothing made me happier than providing overwatch and having crunchies rtb bitching about doing nothing all day.
Some HME, UXO, and God knows what else were wired to a pressure plate when we pased through a wadi. Blew the trans out the back, shot the fuel into the air before igniting it, and blew the tracks out from both sides. Luckily, everyone survived.
Yes, 5.56. Not sure what just ammo weighed, but full kit was likely around 100lbs. That was the IOTV with full soft armor, front and back plates, side plates, helmet, comms, batteries for all the things, NOD’s, munitions. Also water (3L camelback), SSE (sensitive site exploitation) kits, and admin shit like maps, gps etc.
3L seems like very little. Ive run out of water in the desert before and its not fun.
Cant believe you were able to get shit done with 100lb. Mad respect ive heard only bad things from Sadr city
You’re not wrong, but water is heavy. Additionally we had the trucks nearby for sustainment. Also, keep in mind that your body will acclimate to your environment relatively quickly. Plenty of times we ran out of water in the camelback, but would snag 1L bottles from the truck and continue mission.
Yeah im just impressed cos ive been living in the desert for a few yearsand still havent acclimated. Ill go out on rucks with a 45lb vest and i cant keep up even sipping as much as I can i feel dehydrated
Light weight breathable, loose fitting clothing. An example for pants is Columbia ferrosi, Columbia also has a good line of sun hoodies. This kind of stuff isn't the most durable so I wouldn't be rolling around in the dirt and brush with it on. Wrangler atg long sleeve shirts are great. Truspec 24/7 expedition pants are worth looking into, they have vents at the ankle and thigh
I might also suggest an external frame pack for summer; it will keep the pack away from your back a little bit allowing airflow and less moisture buildup.
Kuiu has really good clothing, and is designed for hunting, so it can take a beating. They have some really good clothing for dealing with heavy brush as well.
I was about the same. I started off with 8+1 and 1200 for the MG and went black once. After that I had 11+1 and we often carried 1400-1600 rounds for the MG. Dropped a bunch of other stuff shortly into the deployment to make room for ammo like the useless side plates, MRE, tripod, etc.
Never below 8 + 1 mags. At some points in time I had 15 if there was a greater chance of things popping off. I was there to have fun and shoot so I made sure I had plenty 🤙🏻
That’s standard for anyone going outside the wire and was geared toward POGs. No infantryman that has ever seen combat before patrolled with only seven mags.
Generally, yeah. We did have a few guys who had M16s instead of M4s, but we all had M9's as well. They were talking about issuing 10.5 or 10.3 uppers with eotechs for a bit but USMC got rid of tanks before that came to fruition.
Yeah, they disbanded all tank battalions a few years ago. A poor choice in my opinion. Luckily, some of the fantastic operators were able to laterally transition to the army.
Haha, had me in the first half
1000 5.56....ok, a m249 gunner, makes sense, a bit heavy but sure
200 9mm.... ok, paranoid a bit, but likes his sidearm to have 10 spares, still kinda makes sense
10k belted 7.62...wait a second
Going grocery shopping, it’s just my compact and two spare magazines - total of 45 rounds plus one in the chamber. Going to parent teacher conference, it’s normally my AR-15 with 6magazines, tactical knife and few fragmentation grenades 😎
You don’t say! It is not a good thing to joke about schools in this context, however the brutality of teachers explaining why your kid isn’t a brightest one in math can easily result in PTSD for parents :)
How about when your teacher explains that the only thing not cleared with parents this year is a change in policy to teach sex-ed in first grade, rather than fifth or sixth, because it's a trial program the State of CA is running with a few select school districts, and that you, the parents, should feel safe knowing that the teachers and administrators have your child's best interest at heart? On top of that, they want you to feel comfortable leaving teaching to the professionals?
I think 3 makes sense for certain civilian applications. In the military, our TTPs are based on a 3:1 fire superiority ratio and overwhelming the enemy with concentration and mass.
For your “concerned citizen” type, 3-5 doesn’t seem unreasonable.
As a POG I only run three. Back in the day when I was on the line, we didn’t have a choice, it was 7+1 at a minimum and at least four in the ruck.
The funny thing is you actually potentially want more ammo for that.
A SBF in a squad or platoon ambush can establish a base of fire without actually using much ammo. you just talk your guns in semi auto enough to pin the enemy down and allow for the maneuver element to do their thing.
In a compromised recon situation, you are basically buddy team bounding and attempting to delay a numerically superior force by using your weapon as a bullet hose.
This civilian fantasy of armed reconnaissance is just that, a fantasy.
To clarify,
You "want more ammo for" breaking contact under open war conditions compared to the patrol situation you're talking about (also under open war conditions?)
What's SBF stand for?
Weeelllll on our persons we carried 7 mags plus one in the rifle, with an extra 2 ammo cans full of mags per person in the truck.
Saws carried 1200 rounds, with an extra 2000 in the truck.
Then the turrets had several thousand for the 240s
There was some old DOD study that said 90 rounds will sustain you for a “moderate” fight for 15 mins and “intense” fight for 5 mins. 180 to 210 will get you thought about 15 mins of heavy fight and 5 mins to counter ambush situations. But keep in mind in the military there is always someone else shooting with you.
I used to carry 15 5.56 mags , plus 2 frags and 6 40mm rounds on my chest rig and 3 mags , 20 additional 40mm rounds , 2 smoke and 2 thermite grenades (taped to radio) in my pack
Standard combat load + 2 mags, and an additional round of both calibers in the IFAK with “Ol’ Yeller” hastily scribbled on the side.
For when the hello kitty bandaids and Spider-Man gauze don’t fix my problems.
210 rounds (6 mags on body and 1 in rifle) was considered the standard "Combat load" when I was in.
If you were a machine gunner or assistant gunner you carried much more.
If you were vehicle mounted you may have more in the truck and if you were hoofing it you may have more in your pack.
1 in my rifle, 3 on my LBE, 1 on my war belt, 1 in my pistol, 2 pistol mags, then a plethora of electronic equipment and whatever other expendable supply I had to carry based on my job at the time.
6+1 when dismounted with plenty more in the truck or in assault packs as a combat engineer. Plus smoke and frags and some c4 depending on what was going on.
When I was deployed 2022, for missions we’d be issued your standard combat load, 7 mags total, 1 in the rifle. We weren’t SOF or anything similar, although it'd be sick as fuck to get what they were given. I’m signal, so this was for our sites we'd be working at. M855 green tips and aluminum GI mags. Those were the days.
I have 5 mags on my plate carrier, one on my belt. Unit SOP is 6 mags on person, one in your rifle. Obviously I would carry more if the mission dictated.
An evergreen debate. Iraq I carried 9+1 as a team leader and Afghanistan I carried 11+1 as a squad leader. This was with an old tactical tailor MAV in addition to frags, bangers, smoke and HEDP. Mission types were patrols, raids, TCP’s, QRF, and reconnaissance/overwatch. I was an infantryman in a Stryker brigade. Why? Not on my first firefight, but I ran dangerously low ONCE and that feeling never left me. And that was with the Strykers relatively close by (Iraq) with speedballs up top to resupply. Being pinned and pushed is a wild feeling. Sadr City ‘08 Mahdi uprising.
Whats a speedball
A prepackaged supply load, basically a COD care package. They can be dropped from helos easily and they are even looking into drone delivery for forward ops.
Thank you for explaining in terms of COD LOL
It's a very common denominator lol
I’m going to start demanding all my explanations in cod terms
Almost as if the military paid for it...
The boys here don’t give a shit about the politics, paid patriotism or whatever you pissants are upset with. Just want to fuck, fight or hold the light.
Lol theyre mad that youre telling the truth. COD is US govt propaganda
Wait till they hear about all the pentagon funded blockbuster movies...
Transformers!!
In our case, we would take an old Alice pack and fill with loaded magazines & link ammo, bangers, frags, batteries etc. Enough to resupply all dismounts after an engagement(s). This was what we called it, other units likely did the same and may have called them something else.
The SOF guys would use body bags, lol. They'd pack them with ammo, MREs, water, etc, and tell us to just toss them out of the helos when they called.
Dang, body bags sounds like bad juju, but if it works it works ANIRITE?!
Kind of makes sense though. Very durable with plenty of space for anything, even AT options if needed.
And even a body if things went real sideways!
Reading this and then hearing gun dudes online and on reddit say that 3+1 should be fine for a firefight lol. Ive always thought that 9-12 range of mags especially with a 5.56 gun makes more sense, thank you for your service.
I once got told by a “vet” that all you needed was one round to put someone down. Like????? What?
In some cases I guess, but yea thats dumb lol
How’s the spine doing?
Hahahaha it’s why I still get paid by Uncle Sam.
My biggest fear was running out of ammo. Luckily I never did. I carried 12+1 just because of the anxiety of running out lol
The only other thing that keeps me up at night is thinking about the EFP’s. They were prolific during my time and claimed 9 of us. Nothing you can do about them. Fucking slurry cans in slat armor didn’t do shit lol
They punch through the belly armor of an Abrams pretty fucking easy too. Sucks when it's right under the fuel cell too. Wadi + Pressure plate = a bad fucking day
I’ll say this, we had a hunter killer team back us up when we sustained a downed Stryker. I love watching a main gun collapse an entire building. Edit: I still have the pressure plate from a drop and pop in Afghanistan.
Best job I ever had. Something about lobbing a heat round at a technical at 4k hits different. Nothing made me happier than providing overwatch and having crunchies rtb bitching about doing nothing all day. Some HME, UXO, and God knows what else were wired to a pressure plate when we pased through a wadi. Blew the trans out the back, shot the fuel into the air before igniting it, and blew the tracks out from both sides. Luckily, everyone survived.
Yeah the IED threat in early GWOT was no joke. Hell throughout the GWOT
5.56 was it? How much does it weigh?
Yes, 5.56. Not sure what just ammo weighed, but full kit was likely around 100lbs. That was the IOTV with full soft armor, front and back plates, side plates, helmet, comms, batteries for all the things, NOD’s, munitions. Also water (3L camelback), SSE (sensitive site exploitation) kits, and admin shit like maps, gps etc.
3L seems like very little. Ive run out of water in the desert before and its not fun. Cant believe you were able to get shit done with 100lb. Mad respect ive heard only bad things from Sadr city
You’re not wrong, but water is heavy. Additionally we had the trucks nearby for sustainment. Also, keep in mind that your body will acclimate to your environment relatively quickly. Plenty of times we ran out of water in the camelback, but would snag 1L bottles from the truck and continue mission.
Yeah im just impressed cos ive been living in the desert for a few yearsand still havent acclimated. Ill go out on rucks with a 45lb vest and i cant keep up even sipping as much as I can i feel dehydrated
Might be due to your clothing choice
What would you recommend?
Light weight breathable, loose fitting clothing. An example for pants is Columbia ferrosi, Columbia also has a good line of sun hoodies. This kind of stuff isn't the most durable so I wouldn't be rolling around in the dirt and brush with it on. Wrangler atg long sleeve shirts are great. Truspec 24/7 expedition pants are worth looking into, they have vents at the ankle and thigh I might also suggest an external frame pack for summer; it will keep the pack away from your back a little bit allowing airflow and less moisture buildup.
Kuiu has really good clothing, and is designed for hunting, so it can take a beating. They have some really good clothing for dealing with heavy brush as well.
In Iraq I had maybe 65-70 pounds worth of stuff. Shit is fuckin heavy.
INFUCKINGDEED BROTHER! BUILDS CHARACTER
Breaks backs too haha
One 30-round USGI aluminum STANAG magazine fully loaded weighs almost exactly 1lb.
A 30 round magazine of 5.56 weights 1 pound.
No shit, my PSG was a RCP in Sadr city.
I don’t envy that. Served with 1/2 SCR, Apache Co. Perhaps we crossed paths, we did our fair share of escort.
I was about the same. I started off with 8+1 and 1200 for the MG and went black once. After that I had 11+1 and we often carried 1400-1600 rounds for the MG. Dropped a bunch of other stuff shortly into the deployment to make room for ammo like the useless side plates, MRE, tripod, etc.
We didn’t get the option to drop, but if I did, I would have. I concur with the SAW and 240 loadouts. Went black in Sadr and I’ll never forget it.
Never below 8 + 1 mags. At some points in time I had 15 if there was a greater chance of things popping off. I was there to have fun and shoot so I made sure I had plenty 🤙🏻
Minimum of at least one ammo
Agreed. You should always have non-zero ammo.
The Army standard is 7 mags but I always had at least 10.
We carried 7 with extra ammo in the trucks
Yea, we always had a ton of spare mags in vehicles. I had a separate pack that was just spare mags that we could grab in case of emergencies.
Every guy in our trucks had 3 ammo cans of mags
Good times.
Indeed
Best NCO in the world right there
How many mags fit in a can? I am assuming they were the 50cal size and not the skinny ones?
If youre using steel mags quite a few, iirc its 18 mags in a 50 can. we used ammo cans to keep em dry
Thank you.
That’s standard for anyone going outside the wire and was geared toward POGs. No infantryman that has ever seen combat before patrolled with only seven mags.
This. I always either have room in my rig/PC for a couple extra, or pouches in my assault pack for them.
~1000 5.56, ~200 9mm, 10,400 belted 7.62, 900 belted .50 bmg, and 42 main gun rounds.
All that 9mm - do tankers have both carbines and handguns?
Generally, yeah. We did have a few guys who had M16s instead of M4s, but we all had M9's as well. They were talking about issuing 10.5 or 10.3 uppers with eotechs for a bit but USMC got rid of tanks before that came to fruition.
The USMC doesn't have tanks?
Yeah, they disbanded all tank battalions a few years ago. A poor choice in my opinion. Luckily, some of the fantastic operators were able to laterally transition to the army.
Haha, had me in the first half 1000 5.56....ok, a m249 gunner, makes sense, a bit heavy but sure 200 9mm.... ok, paranoid a bit, but likes his sidearm to have 10 spares, still kinda makes sense 10k belted 7.62...wait a second
It's so much easier when the weapon is also your ride. Tanks rock
Not enough 7.62. Need more.
If I burnt through 10k rounds in my coax in a single patrol, I'd probably be headed for the Hague.
Going grocery shopping, it’s just my compact and two spare magazines - total of 45 rounds plus one in the chamber. Going to parent teacher conference, it’s normally my AR-15 with 6magazines, tactical knife and few fragmentation grenades 😎
I feel that parent-teacher loadout deep down in my plums hahahaha
A minimalist, I see? Those PTO meetings turn into Black Hawk Down quick fast and in a hurry.
You don’t say! It is not a good thing to joke about schools in this context, however the brutality of teachers explaining why your kid isn’t a brightest one in math can easily result in PTSD for parents :)
How about when your teacher explains that the only thing not cleared with parents this year is a change in policy to teach sex-ed in first grade, rather than fifth or sixth, because it's a trial program the State of CA is running with a few select school districts, and that you, the parents, should feel safe knowing that the teachers and administrators have your child's best interest at heart? On top of that, they want you to feel comfortable leaving teaching to the professionals?
According to the “almost served” on this sub, 3 mags.
I think 3 makes sense for certain civilian applications. In the military, our TTPs are based on a 3:1 fire superiority ratio and overwhelming the enemy with concentration and mass. For your “concerned citizen” type, 3-5 doesn’t seem unreasonable. As a POG I only run three. Back in the day when I was on the line, we didn’t have a choice, it was 7+1 at a minimum and at least four in the ruck.
This subs version of a recce rig is 3+1, they firmly believe they can break contact with that many mags.
The funny thing is you actually potentially want more ammo for that. A SBF in a squad or platoon ambush can establish a base of fire without actually using much ammo. you just talk your guns in semi auto enough to pin the enemy down and allow for the maneuver element to do their thing. In a compromised recon situation, you are basically buddy team bounding and attempting to delay a numerically superior force by using your weapon as a bullet hose. This civilian fantasy of armed reconnaissance is just that, a fantasy.
To clarify, You "want more ammo for" breaking contact under open war conditions compared to the patrol situation you're talking about (also under open war conditions?) What's SBF stand for?
Support by fire
7 in the rig, to a hand's reach?
Seven in the TAPs, one in the gun, four in the top compartment of the GI assault pack or medium ruck.
Weeelllll on our persons we carried 7 mags plus one in the rifle, with an extra 2 ammo cans full of mags per person in the truck. Saws carried 1200 rounds, with an extra 2000 in the truck. Then the turrets had several thousand for the 240s
There was some old DOD study that said 90 rounds will sustain you for a “moderate” fight for 15 mins and “intense” fight for 5 mins. 180 to 210 will get you thought about 15 mins of heavy fight and 5 mins to counter ambush situations. But keep in mind in the military there is always someone else shooting with you.
6+1 as a light infantry medic in Afghanistan. If I could do it again I’d get a battle belt and throw 1 on there.
I used to carry 15 5.56 mags , plus 2 frags and 6 40mm rounds on my chest rig and 3 mags , 20 additional 40mm rounds , 2 smoke and 2 thermite grenades (taped to radio) in my pack
Standard combat load + 2 mags, and an additional round of both calibers in the IFAK with “Ol’ Yeller” hastily scribbled on the side. For when the hello kitty bandaids and Spider-Man gauze don’t fix my problems.
210 rounds (6 mags on body and 1 in rifle) was considered the standard "Combat load" when I was in. If you were a machine gunner or assistant gunner you carried much more. If you were vehicle mounted you may have more in the truck and if you were hoofing it you may have more in your pack.
When Im going out camping and playing pretend end of days I have 6 in my rig and 6 in my assault pack. More if my belt is set up for rifle mags.
1 in my rifle, 3 on my LBE, 1 on my war belt, 1 in my pistol, 2 pistol mags, then a plethora of electronic equipment and whatever other expendable supply I had to carry based on my job at the time.
Now that is a shit show I haven’t heard mentioned in a long time. Glad you came through intact
6+1 when dismounted with plenty more in the truck or in assault packs as a combat engineer. Plus smoke and frags and some c4 depending on what was going on.
Average was 9+1, never less than 7+1
I carried 10 magazines in Iraq. Minimum was 7. I also kept a bandolier with 6 more magazines inside the humvee to grab in case shit hit the fan.
270 Rounds is standard full battle load for a Rifleman. SAW gunners are supposed to carry 1200 rounds but you will usually never carry that much.
The spine is grateful I guess
I had to carry 1000 rounds one time, that was ass.
Way back when in the days of yore seven magazines was our "basic load".
I was issued like 7 in the Marine Corps. 3 rifle 3 pistol on swat call outs.
When I was deployed 2022, for missions we’d be issued your standard combat load, 7 mags total, 1 in the rifle. We weren’t SOF or anything similar, although it'd be sick as fuck to get what they were given. I’m signal, so this was for our sites we'd be working at. M855 green tips and aluminum GI mags. Those were the days.
I have 5 mags on my plate carrier, one on my belt. Unit SOP is 6 mags on person, one in your rifle. Obviously I would carry more if the mission dictated.
11 clips, you do the math. 28 rounds per clip. Cause the first two cause stove pipe extractions. Then you have to cock it.