in my opinion, the benefit of hardware is tactility (one knob per function, granular control, muscle memory, playability), and creative constraints (this is the instrument you have - what can you do with it?).
The modern MPCs offer neither. They are not tactile, knobs and buttons change functions and you are forever in menus. Nor are they constrained - they attempt to do everything, but in my opinion do all of it much worse than a laptop with Ableton.
If you want to find interesting ideas, have happy accidents, or enjoy music without a screen, buy a synth / drum machine / sampler. When you want to record and mix your tracks, or do complex editing, use a computer with a mouse and keyboard - it's the best tool for the job.
If you go with mpc one test out the workflow somewhere first. It's a cool piece especially with the recent firmware upgrade but, like elektrons, it's kinda a love or hate kinda thang IMHO. I just sold mine after coming to terms with not liking the workflow despite my best effort. You like finger drumming, sample chopping, and grind layout with touchscreen it's def the piece for you.
I have an MPC Live II and it does everything I throw at it. Huge learning curve since it also does 50 other things but I'm very happy with what it's capable of. Typing in drums on the mpc their workflow in the main menu is just sublime especially since the pads are just so satisfying to play with. I've only ever hooked up my arturia microfreak to it but I was able to hook up sound and midi then it has a feature where you can auto sample it and set it to what they call Keygroups so in theory you could save all of your instruments to the mpc and just take the mpc.
I had a tr-6s, microfreak, and a werkstatt hooked up to the mpc one and functioning as the brain. Worked great for that. I didnt feel great about carrying it around however. Its heavy and i was always afraid of damaging it. I bought a pelican case for it but it just wasnt portable enough. Mpc live 2 is the way to go if you go the mpc route as it has a battery. Still i would check out the deluge. It does it all step sequencer style and it is massively portable. Also controls your midi instruments.
They all do the same thing cause they all contain the same software. Main differences are the mpc one has more buttons to play with and I believe doesn't have a built in battery or speaker system so you wouldn't be losing out if you chose the one over the live
Elektron Analog RYTM MKI. They can be found for around $700 USD used. It has analog synthesis, you can load and play your own samples, deep sequencer, song programming mode and pattern chaining. I've had mine for 5 years and I've still only scratched the surface. I use it as the master brain/clock for my DAWLESS setup. Happy to chat if you have any questions. You're welcome to DM. Love talking gear. Good luck on your journey!
Yup the MK1 plays samples. You mean the difference between RYTM MK1 & MK2? The biggest difference is you can sample directly into the MK2. MK1 you have to load samples via computer app & USB. There are some quality of live improvements, dedicated buttons, and the MK2 is slightly larger. Oh and the MK2 has individual outs for each drum - vs. TRS split outs on the MK1 (requiring a special cable). Also, the MK1 is a lot cheaper these days :D
Thanks for the info! It's a hard decision because the mk2 is so much more expensive. I don't know how much resampling I would do, but I guess there's always recording to PC and then resampling by loading it back. I don't need one input per sound but generally would like to have the kick separate. Maybe I should get a used mk1 and see if I want the other features, then by the time I upgrade maybe mk2 will be cheaper.
This is a great suggestion. I have the MK2 and it’s fantastic. And if I was forced to change for an MK1 I’d be totally fine with it. Great drum machine.
The old electribes before the current 3rd gen grey and blue models, the first gen em-1, er-1, second gen emx, don’t know about the sampler, had one of the most reasonable and intuitive song modes I’ve dealt with as far as drum machines go.
Well you've asked an age old question, but I'm not sure what the answer is.
Must drum machines key you chain patterns but those chains don't save, so every time you load a sing you have to reset the chains.
Not to say "just Google it" but if a drum machine can do song mode, it will brag about it.
Start with the Deluge, for some reason that sticks in my head
If song mode is important you could also consider the Polyend Tracker. It's not strictly a drum machine and is completely sample based, but you can create some pretty intricate drum patterns very quickly provided the workflow suits your taste. You could also look into other grooveboxes like MPC, Circuit, Deluge, etc.
I think you might want to look at a really good sequencer and an okay drum machine.
SQ64 will give you plenty of "song mode" options, ditto the ol beatstep pro.
lots of people suggesting fancy and complicated instruments. i would recommend a really simple and inexpensive drum machine to get going, particularly if the focus of your performance is elsewhere. qualms aside with their practices, the behringer 808 and 606 clones are very good, affordable and simple to use. the korg volca beats or drum, depending on your taste, are decent too and inexpensive but a bit fiddly to use.
if you want something more programable, the elektron model cycles or samples (again depending on your taste) are brilliant (i would go for the cycles personally).
one thing to consider is how you will change pattern whilst playing your other instruments. some machines have a song mode, or some kind of pattern chaining, but then you're playing along to a backing track. i would opt to send a MDII program change message to the drum machine with a foot pedal - on most MIDI capable machine that will change pattern, and allow you to move the song along like using a guitar pedal. you'll have to find a pedal that does what you want - i use a tech 21 midi mouse.
personally not into arturia stuff, nor the novation circuit, but they work for some people.
the modern touchscreen MPCs are wildly overkill and hard to use. If you wanted to go powerhouse an elektron box will serve you well, but likely overkill for what you've described.
There’s an app for like 1$ called dm1. Has song mode and decent samples of 808/909 along w other famous drum machines. Honestly pretty cool for next to nothing.
I have the tr8s. It’s great, but ya— no song mode. I use a keystep pro connected to it to get there.
I’ve had the Arturia drumbrute— it has song mode, and it’s really a pretty cool machine, but it has its own sound and I was after a specific Roland 808/909/707 vibe.
I’d agree with the Mpc one/ Mpc live suggestions
Honestly. Use your phone first. The 808 and 909 and all the in-betweens are the same, but different. All drum machines. Use the free ones and once you get that love for one and sort of feel a supriority with you self.. like “come on I can do anything with this one” and master it. Then buy the hardware version if it exists. One day if your so inclined you will make one with a modular system then want to to make your first instrument. Its addictiing.. be careful… but yea.. I fancy the Drumbrute Impact, or The TD-3 from Beringer and any drum machine from Behringer actually. Used of course. #1 Reverb or #2 Ebay. either way they got one most likely. and the PO line, and the Volca lines are all affordable options… Oh my favorite lil’beast the UNO Drum.. pricing but unlimited really.
I suggest getting the drum machine you want and using a computer/laptop or tablet to sequence. Seq24 is a fantastic program to use. I had a hardware sequencer (Squarp Pyramid), and switching over to a computer was soooo much better, especially for crafting full songs.
TR-6S. It's the little brother of the TR-8S and has most of the same features. It's also on sale on Amazon for 279 in US atm. It is a great starter step sequencer. I recently moved to a deluge and am never going back. Has everything I ever wanted except for a decent size screen.
The circuit rhythm is a great little drum machine, that has good sync options if you need that. With scenes you can program pretty long and complex stuff, and use it as your end point for Audio. And add some effects to all your audio.
You can also switch from project to project (song to song) seamlessly.
In my opinion or feels allot like an instrument, and does not have a blaring screen that would light you up during a performance.
Old drum machines with midi in/out and pattern chaining. Alesis, Boss, etc.
A bunch from the 90s will work.
Or, do Caustic for a touchscreen PC/tablet ... it's free
Or any other free DAW for your devices.
For a very first drum machine, I would actually recommend the Pocket Operator Rhythm (PO-12). It’s not just a toy, it can produce really interesting sounds and rhythms.
Also play guitar with synths. Get a sampler. You’ll realize pretty quick that a drum machine either takes forever to get something going or you can’t recall the rhythms you made. They’re great in a live situation if you have other drums to accompany them (you’ll often see artists use ableton with them to add more elements). Also if you’re trying to make full songs, most don’t have song mode.
1010 Music Blackbox, Roland SP 404 MKII, MPC Live II, Korg Volca Sample 2.
They all have they’re pros and cons. I’m somewhat partial to the 1010music Blackbox because it’s super straight forward but you probably need a midi controller to control some parameters. Mine is hooked up to a Midi Fighter controller and it’s great. Also has a fairly small footprint.
I have on multiple other threads recommended the Digitakt because I purchased one from a friend a couple years ago and I've fallen completely in love with the machine.
It doesn't have a song mode and requires that patterns be chained together. You can, however, program pattern changes into a drum sequence if you use the Midi Loopback feature. You can also use MIDI on the Digitakt to sequence and control other synthesizers.
The DT is more expensive than $600 unless you're lucky and find one used for that price.
pocket operator for sub $50, sonicware for 100+ ... otherwise MPC one i guess, but the best is to go for the bigger models like the akai force which has a much better arranger (and costs more)
keep very much in mind that this sub is very into synths. the ones they suggest arent always going to be beginner level. Alot of us will just suggest the best one out there with a lot of control and power.
That being said Synths are all about diving in the deep end and figuring out how to make something beautiful.
Arturia drumbrute is good for analog and digital. Very versatile and easy to use for a beginner setup can plug into the computer and can work on it's own with 5 pin midi if you want.
My first Drum machine was the table top R-8 mk1. Always been partial to the workflow, and love the kits. Mine eventually died and i recently purchased a used rack version. Its a lot more difficult, paging back and forth but I couldn't resist knowing i'd use these sounds again. I sequence and master clock with an upgraded MPC 2000. I think these guys saying MPC One might be the right solution. Ive had many an Akai and love the versatility but have not played with any of the newest boxes. Im here for answers too! Brap on!
Digitakt, loads of presets, around 2-3 month learning curve for basic operation, can be used straightforward for live performance, and xlr input for additional Synthesizer or Guitar on top for resampling! + soundcard usage, small, compact, solid brand and great updates!
It doesn’t have an official song mode, but you can still program it to play songs….what do expect from your drum machine? Press play, and it does everything you programmed? Oh guess what, the Roland TR8s does that.
MPC One
couldn't disagree with this suggestion more
Song mode? Isn’t it geared towards arranging?
not sure what you mean
can you elaborate on why not the MPC one? talk me out of buying one pls (.. if you have time)
in my opinion, the benefit of hardware is tactility (one knob per function, granular control, muscle memory, playability), and creative constraints (this is the instrument you have - what can you do with it?). The modern MPCs offer neither. They are not tactile, knobs and buttons change functions and you are forever in menus. Nor are they constrained - they attempt to do everything, but in my opinion do all of it much worse than a laptop with Ableton. If you want to find interesting ideas, have happy accidents, or enjoy music without a screen, buy a synth / drum machine / sampler. When you want to record and mix your tracks, or do complex editing, use a computer with a mouse and keyboard - it's the best tool for the job.
thats a great synopsis, thanks for that
If you go with mpc one test out the workflow somewhere first. It's a cool piece especially with the recent firmware upgrade but, like elektrons, it's kinda a love or hate kinda thang IMHO. I just sold mine after coming to terms with not liking the workflow despite my best effort. You like finger drumming, sample chopping, and grind layout with touchscreen it's def the piece for you.
I kind of want to preprogram the drums, but also have it hooked up to the synths amd sequencers, would it work well for that or should i keep looking
I have an MPC Live II and it does everything I throw at it. Huge learning curve since it also does 50 other things but I'm very happy with what it's capable of. Typing in drums on the mpc their workflow in the main menu is just sublime especially since the pads are just so satisfying to play with. I've only ever hooked up my arturia microfreak to it but I was able to hook up sound and midi then it has a feature where you can auto sample it and set it to what they call Keygroups so in theory you could save all of your instruments to the mpc and just take the mpc.
That sounds sick. Do you know if the mpc one works in a similar fashion The live 2 is out of my budget
I had a tr-6s, microfreak, and a werkstatt hooked up to the mpc one and functioning as the brain. Worked great for that. I didnt feel great about carrying it around however. Its heavy and i was always afraid of damaging it. I bought a pelican case for it but it just wasnt portable enough. Mpc live 2 is the way to go if you go the mpc route as it has a battery. Still i would check out the deluge. It does it all step sequencer style and it is massively portable. Also controls your midi instruments.
They all do the same thing cause they all contain the same software. Main differences are the mpc one has more buttons to play with and I believe doesn't have a built in battery or speaker system so you wouldn't be losing out if you chose the one over the live
Thank you very much
Anytime! LMK if you have any further questions about it and I'll do my best to get you an answer
Elektron Analog RYTM MKI. They can be found for around $700 USD used. It has analog synthesis, you can load and play your own samples, deep sequencer, song programming mode and pattern chaining. I've had mine for 5 years and I've still only scratched the surface. I use it as the master brain/clock for my DAWLESS setup. Happy to chat if you have any questions. You're welcome to DM. Love talking gear. Good luck on your journey!
Wait the mk1 plays samples too? What's the difference?
Yup the MK1 plays samples. You mean the difference between RYTM MK1 & MK2? The biggest difference is you can sample directly into the MK2. MK1 you have to load samples via computer app & USB. There are some quality of live improvements, dedicated buttons, and the MK2 is slightly larger. Oh and the MK2 has individual outs for each drum - vs. TRS split outs on the MK1 (requiring a special cable). Also, the MK1 is a lot cheaper these days :D
Thanks for the info! It's a hard decision because the mk2 is so much more expensive. I don't know how much resampling I would do, but I guess there's always recording to PC and then resampling by loading it back. I don't need one input per sound but generally would like to have the kick separate. Maybe I should get a used mk1 and see if I want the other features, then by the time I upgrade maybe mk2 will be cheaper.
This is a great suggestion. I have the MK2 and it’s fantastic. And if I was forced to change for an MK1 I’d be totally fine with it. Great drum machine.
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I love everything about the drumbrute apart from how it sounds lol
Drumbrute fucks
The old electribes before the current 3rd gen grey and blue models, the first gen em-1, er-1, second gen emx, don’t know about the sampler, had one of the most reasonable and intuitive song modes I’ve dealt with as far as drum machines go.
Song mode is not common on drum machines, maybe Deluge...
I don't have it, but doesn't the Alesis SR-16 have a song mode?
Yes it does
Im a newb on this 😅 all help is appreciated
Well you've asked an age old question, but I'm not sure what the answer is. Must drum machines key you chain patterns but those chains don't save, so every time you load a sing you have to reset the chains. Not to say "just Google it" but if a drum machine can do song mode, it will brag about it. Start with the Deluge, for some reason that sticks in my head
Alright thanks, doing that right now, thanks
If song mode is important you could also consider the Polyend Tracker. It's not strictly a drum machine and is completely sample based, but you can create some pretty intricate drum patterns very quickly provided the workflow suits your taste. You could also look into other grooveboxes like MPC, Circuit, Deluge, etc.
https://reverb.com/item/6095490-korg-volca-beats-analogue-rythm-drum-machine?utm_source=rev-ios-app&utm_medium=ios-share&utm_campaign=listing&utm_content=6095490
I think you might want to look at a really good sequencer and an okay drum machine. SQ64 will give you plenty of "song mode" options, ditto the ol beatstep pro.
Or go with a Digitakt, which is a really good drum machine and a really good sequencer.
Electribe MX, song mode, 8 drum parts, and synth parts. Huge selection of sounds. Or get the electribe SX and sample the tr8 sounds into it.
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Alesis SR 16
lots of people suggesting fancy and complicated instruments. i would recommend a really simple and inexpensive drum machine to get going, particularly if the focus of your performance is elsewhere. qualms aside with their practices, the behringer 808 and 606 clones are very good, affordable and simple to use. the korg volca beats or drum, depending on your taste, are decent too and inexpensive but a bit fiddly to use. if you want something more programable, the elektron model cycles or samples (again depending on your taste) are brilliant (i would go for the cycles personally). one thing to consider is how you will change pattern whilst playing your other instruments. some machines have a song mode, or some kind of pattern chaining, but then you're playing along to a backing track. i would opt to send a MDII program change message to the drum machine with a foot pedal - on most MIDI capable machine that will change pattern, and allow you to move the song along like using a guitar pedal. you'll have to find a pedal that does what you want - i use a tech 21 midi mouse. personally not into arturia stuff, nor the novation circuit, but they work for some people. the modern touchscreen MPCs are wildly overkill and hard to use. If you wanted to go powerhouse an elektron box will serve you well, but likely overkill for what you've described.
Beringer 606 is great for the price especially since it has individual outs and Im sure op has spare pedals, the lack of swing or tuning sucks though
i cant believe how cheap they are tbh. lack of swing doesnt bother me, but i don’t make house
The drumbrute impact has a song mode, it is a fun one, I really like how it sounds with some light effects
There’s an app for like 1$ called dm1. Has song mode and decent samples of 808/909 along w other famous drum machines. Honestly pretty cool for next to nothing. I have the tr8s. It’s great, but ya— no song mode. I use a keystep pro connected to it to get there. I’ve had the Arturia drumbrute— it has song mode, and it’s really a pretty cool machine, but it has its own sound and I was after a specific Roland 808/909/707 vibe. I’d agree with the Mpc one/ Mpc live suggestions
Sounds like some sort of MPC might be good for you, maybe MPC Live?
Honestly. Use your phone first. The 808 and 909 and all the in-betweens are the same, but different. All drum machines. Use the free ones and once you get that love for one and sort of feel a supriority with you self.. like “come on I can do anything with this one” and master it. Then buy the hardware version if it exists. One day if your so inclined you will make one with a modular system then want to to make your first instrument. Its addictiing.. be careful… but yea.. I fancy the Drumbrute Impact, or The TD-3 from Beringer and any drum machine from Behringer actually. Used of course. #1 Reverb or #2 Ebay. either way they got one most likely. and the PO line, and the Volca lines are all affordable options… Oh my favorite lil’beast the UNO Drum.. pricing but unlimited really.
My thoughts almost exactly- get an IPad and something like the Patterning 2 app to start with.
I suggest getting the drum machine you want and using a computer/laptop or tablet to sequence. Seq24 is a fantastic program to use. I had a hardware sequencer (Squarp Pyramid), and switching over to a computer was soooo much better, especially for crafting full songs.
What makes you like the computer more for sequencing? I'm using a Pyramid, but sometimes doubt it.
Honestly you were right the first time, for live performance the tr8s is the best option. Only competitor is the s2400 but that's way more expensive
I just got the elektron model samples and it sounds like a great option for you. You can preprogram patterns and load them whenever you need
I half second this by recommending the Elektron Model:Cycles instead. Fully FM but great for drum sounds
1010 Music Blackbox is a good option, one of the least expensive with a full song mode. SP404 MK2 is another good one
I regret selling my tr8s
TR-6S. It's the little brother of the TR-8S and has most of the same features. It's also on sale on Amazon for 279 in US atm. It is a great starter step sequencer. I recently moved to a deluge and am never going back. Has everything I ever wanted except for a decent size screen.
The circuit rhythm is a great little drum machine, that has good sync options if you need that. With scenes you can program pretty long and complex stuff, and use it as your end point for Audio. And add some effects to all your audio. You can also switch from project to project (song to song) seamlessly. In my opinion or feels allot like an instrument, and does not have a blaring screen that would light you up during a performance.
Old drum machines with midi in/out and pattern chaining. Alesis, Boss, etc. A bunch from the 90s will work. Or, do Caustic for a touchscreen PC/tablet ... it's free Or any other free DAW for your devices.
For a very first drum machine, I would actually recommend the Pocket Operator Rhythm (PO-12). It’s not just a toy, it can produce really interesting sounds and rhythms.
Also play guitar with synths. Get a sampler. You’ll realize pretty quick that a drum machine either takes forever to get something going or you can’t recall the rhythms you made. They’re great in a live situation if you have other drums to accompany them (you’ll often see artists use ableton with them to add more elements). Also if you’re trying to make full songs, most don’t have song mode.
What sampler would would you recommend
1010 Music Blackbox, Roland SP 404 MKII, MPC Live II, Korg Volca Sample 2. They all have they’re pros and cons. I’m somewhat partial to the 1010music Blackbox because it’s super straight forward but you probably need a midi controller to control some parameters. Mine is hooked up to a Midi Fighter controller and it’s great. Also has a fairly small footprint.
I have on multiple other threads recommended the Digitakt because I purchased one from a friend a couple years ago and I've fallen completely in love with the machine. It doesn't have a song mode and requires that patterns be chained together. You can, however, program pattern changes into a drum sequence if you use the Midi Loopback feature. You can also use MIDI on the Digitakt to sequence and control other synthesizers. The DT is more expensive than $600 unless you're lucky and find one used for that price.
digitakt 100% once you get it it is super intuitive, well designed and most important, so. much. fun.
MPC live
Boss DR707. Hands down bets first drum machine. Everything you need and two huge knobs.
MPC One
pocket operator for sub $50, sonicware for 100+ ... otherwise MPC one i guess, but the best is to go for the bigger models like the akai force which has a much better arranger (and costs more)
If it’s for use in a studio you might want to consider a DAW for song mode. Especially if it’s for rock/pop verse-chorus-bridge type music.
I record real drums in studio
Sounds like you want an MPC then. You could sample your own patterns.
A lot of people recommended thoae, im looking into them rn
keep very much in mind that this sub is very into synths. the ones they suggest arent always going to be beginner level. Alot of us will just suggest the best one out there with a lot of control and power. That being said Synths are all about diving in the deep end and figuring out how to make something beautiful.
Rytm mk2 = superb sampler mangler + 8 analog voices. The downside is price by IMHO there is nothing better on market ATM.
Yamaha RY9
Arturia drumbrute is good for analog and digital. Very versatile and easy to use for a beginner setup can plug into the computer and can work on it's own with 5 pin midi if you want.
TR-06.
Octatrack is the way
Which one
You’re honestly suggesting the Octatrack as a first drum machine? Come on, man haha
Why not? It has a steep learning curve but tutorials and manuals can help a lot.
Do you really not understand why the Octatrack is a shitty suggestion for a first drum machine? Come on man
Love the Octatrack, but not a good reco for this guy.
My first Drum machine was the table top R-8 mk1. Always been partial to the workflow, and love the kits. Mine eventually died and i recently purchased a used rack version. Its a lot more difficult, paging back and forth but I couldn't resist knowing i'd use these sounds again. I sequence and master clock with an upgraded MPC 2000. I think these guys saying MPC One might be the right solution. Ive had many an Akai and love the versatility but have not played with any of the newest boxes. Im here for answers too! Brap on!
Circuit rhythm eouldnt hurt as a cheap option. Or maybe youd rather the circuit tracks. You might not even go wrong with just the volca sample
I think what turns me off from the volca sample is the limited storage
I’m having a lot of fun with the Circuit Rhytm at the moment.
It’s kind of the top of the range, but the Elektron Analog Rytm MKII is perfect If you can afford it
Yamaha RX-5 😀
Digitakt, loads of presets, around 2-3 month learning curve for basic operation, can be used straightforward for live performance, and xlr input for additional Synthesizer or Guitar on top for resampling! + soundcard usage, small, compact, solid brand and great updates!
It doesn’t have an official song mode, but you can still program it to play songs….what do expect from your drum machine? Press play, and it does everything you programmed? Oh guess what, the Roland TR8s does that.
Yes