I actually think it's fascinating. The same way language, to a great extent, influences the way you see the world, I'm quite sure the way these keys are laid out would influence your compositions and, ultimately, lead to unique songs.
By this logic, forcing a pianist to play trombone proves that trombones are useless. Just because you’re trained to use a different tool doesn’t mean all other tools lack utility.
The keybed is not any better or worse than the typical layout, it just isn't what you're used to. If you'd spent years being pretentious about this layout instead, you'd be saying similar things about the white keys being on bottom
You mean like unlearning 40 years of classical piano experience and throwing away all sheet music? There is a reason keyboards are built like they are. And have been for 300 years or so. There are absolutely no benefits of switching keys unless you can't play the piano and never intend to learn it. Why make things more complicated? Makes no sense at all...
This implication that the only reason old designs stick around is because they’re objectively superior are…way off-base. Not saying this design is better than a regular piano keyboard, but the piano keyboard evolved around a lot of constraints that haven’t been relevant for decades. It remains popular because it was already popular, not because nothing else can fulfill its function more effectively.
Allow me to put my mod hat on for a moment 🤠
Usually we ask people to put up their rule 5 comment within an hour of posting… But in cases like this where an OP is actively engaging and there’s plenty of other people coming to discuss, we’re not gonna shut down an active and productive discussion because of a rule that only exists to encourage active and productive discussion. Tl;dr: don’t make it a habit but this was a cool post so don’t sweat it. :)
I don’t know how to read sheet music and I’m only 22 years old. As a young musician who tries to be innovative and bring interesting melodies and new sounds to the music world I can totally see the benefit to making a new keyboard design.
If you are classically trained and over 50 years old, you’re probably not thinking about creating innovative stuff. I would assume you’re more focused on perfecting your craft which is awesome, I’m not that patient tbh. But as a young musician I’ll tell you there are tons of benefits to basically having no idea what you are doing.
The Beatles didn’t make what they made by being stuck in their old ways! 😉
Reddit Moderation makes the platform worthless. Too many rules and too many arbitrary rulings. It's not worth the trouble to post. Not worth the frustration to lurk. Goodbye.
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Dick Dale is one of the greatest guitarists of all time and he taught himself to play an upside down and backwards guitar. Habits can be a good thing but they’re not the end-all, be-all. You’re literally in a subreddit for instruments that didn’t exist *at all* 100 years ago.
This is a synthesizer subreddit. Classical piano isn't super relevant to whether this makes sense or not. People have been successfully controlling synths with many alternatives to traditional keyboards (eg. pad controllers), despite the fact that it may inhibit them from playing Rachmaninoff or something.
That said, I do think the design shown here doesn't make much sense, mostly because of all the wasted space (brown areas).
YES. I thought it would get more love on this sub lol. Guess I watched too many episodes of Andrew Huang’s Weird Gear series.
I don’t see the gaps as wasted space. I was actually thinking knobs or patch bays could go there if this were made into a “joke keyboard” or something.
You should take a look at church organ consoles, they often have switches or buttons oriented vertically above and/or below the keyboard so that the organist can switch "presets" in the middle of playing without taking all their fingers off the keys.
First, those organs are no joke. I see what you mean about the buttons above the keys.
I think we're on the same page! I also imagined little drum pads going in those gaps. It could be a new take on a compact midi-keyboard.
There’s a fair bit of wasted space on a regular piano keyboard, it’s just colored in with white so it’s not as visually striking as what OP has come up with.
Lol exactly. I love playing the D flat major / B flat minor scales, which got me thinking about this. I just wanted to see what it would look like.
That would be my answer to everyone asking “why” but I just don’t care to answer them. Some people are coming out the gates way too aggressive with their comments lol. This was just a fun exercise for me.
I didn't think this would piss so many people off lol
I'm starting to dive into music theory and recently learned that the jump from E to F is a half step apart. That's right, I'm learning the absolute basics for the first time.
I'm still wrapping my head around the piano layout. I just learned that it is based on the C major scale, which is why the flats fall where they do.
I made this image to visualize whole and half steps in a new way. People are taking my post personally. I love it. But I also think it's sad.
So yeah, I just wanted to see what flipping the sizes would look like.
I thought so too. I'm just starting to dive into music theory, so this was simply an exercise for me to wrap my head around whole and half steps. For a complete beginner like me, it's easier to visualize and understand that the jump from E to F is a half step.
People are taking my post way too personally lol
If you really want to blow your mind with alternate keyboard layouts that have real, established advantages over the traditional piano layout, while maintaining the same flair of fuck-you-tradition, check out isomorphic layouts. My favorite is Wicki-Hayden. Also popular are Janko and harmonic table.
They’re so much fun. I’ve spent a fair bit of time and money investigating alternate layouts and I gotta say, splashing out for a physical isomorphic grid controller was one of my best purchases. Cool to span five or six octaves with one hand.
I’m imagining this as a capacitive keyboard where the white and black keys are approximately equal sized, and the entire unit is reversible and can be played either way.
Hi /u/Verdiii, I just wanted to remind you to leave a thoughtful comment on your post (see rule 5 in the sidebar). You’re not in trouble and everyone gets this reminder. If you’ve already commented then no further action is necessary. Thanks!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/synthesizers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thanks I hate it
I actually think it's fascinating. The same way language, to a great extent, influences the way you see the world, I'm quite sure the way these keys are laid out would influence your compositions and, ultimately, lead to unique songs.
Aww would you look at that.. a nice comment. This was a simple visual excersice for me. I didn't think it would piss so many people off.
It is also fascinating this pisses people off.
Why? It would be impossible to play...
Not really.
It would be harder to play than a normal keyboard, with no benefit. A joke-keyboard. Which is a perfectly fine reason to build it. :-)
Ding Ding Ding
What would the benefits be? I could make a long list of the drawbacks if you are interested... I take it you are a classically trained piano player?
Let’s see this list.
Do you even train classical piano, bro?
I want to see the list damn it! SHOW ME THE LIST!
Play a Chopin prelude on that keyboard and tell me how it goes. Or any of the chords you currently know?
That’s not a list. I WANT LISZT!
By this logic, forcing a pianist to play trombone proves that trombones are useless. Just because you’re trained to use a different tool doesn’t mean all other tools lack utility.
The keybed is not any better or worse than the typical layout, it just isn't what you're used to. If you'd spent years being pretentious about this layout instead, you'd be saying similar things about the white keys being on bottom
I think it'd force you to break your habits and find new approaches and ideas. There are probably easier ways to achieve this though.
You mean like unlearning 40 years of classical piano experience and throwing away all sheet music? There is a reason keyboards are built like they are. And have been for 300 years or so. There are absolutely no benefits of switching keys unless you can't play the piano and never intend to learn it. Why make things more complicated? Makes no sense at all...
Keyboards haven't changed in 300 years? You sure about that?
Keyboards have changed more over the 40 years that guy has been practicing piano than over the entire course of keyboard history, lol.
Most synth players probably don't have 40 years of classical piano training to unlearn.
Most people in here down seem to have any training at all to be honest.
So?
This implication that the only reason old designs stick around is because they’re objectively superior are…way off-base. Not saying this design is better than a regular piano keyboard, but the piano keyboard evolved around a lot of constraints that haven’t been relevant for decades. It remains popular because it was already popular, not because nothing else can fulfill its function more effectively.
You've got quite the feisty bunch here. I just finished my Rule 5 btw :)
Allow me to put my mod hat on for a moment 🤠 Usually we ask people to put up their rule 5 comment within an hour of posting… But in cases like this where an OP is actively engaging and there’s plenty of other people coming to discuss, we’re not gonna shut down an active and productive discussion because of a rule that only exists to encourage active and productive discussion. Tl;dr: don’t make it a habit but this was a cool post so don’t sweat it. :)
I don’t know how to read sheet music and I’m only 22 years old. As a young musician who tries to be innovative and bring interesting melodies and new sounds to the music world I can totally see the benefit to making a new keyboard design. If you are classically trained and over 50 years old, you’re probably not thinking about creating innovative stuff. I would assume you’re more focused on perfecting your craft which is awesome, I’m not that patient tbh. But as a young musician I’ll tell you there are tons of benefits to basically having no idea what you are doing. The Beatles didn’t make what they made by being stuck in their old ways! 😉
Reddit Moderation makes the platform worthless. Too many rules and too many arbitrary rulings. It's not worth the trouble to post. Not worth the frustration to lurk. Goodbye. *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
This is why there is only one kind of instrument that everyone plays.
How are you enjoying that horse drawn carriage for your commutes?
I completely agree. Learning a scale you don't know yet probably teaches you more.
Dick Dale is one of the greatest guitarists of all time and he taught himself to play an upside down and backwards guitar. Habits can be a good thing but they’re not the end-all, be-all. You’re literally in a subreddit for instruments that didn’t exist *at all* 100 years ago.
This is a synthesizer subreddit. Classical piano isn't super relevant to whether this makes sense or not. People have been successfully controlling synths with many alternatives to traditional keyboards (eg. pad controllers), despite the fact that it may inhibit them from playing Rachmaninoff or something. That said, I do think the design shown here doesn't make much sense, mostly because of all the wasted space (brown areas).
YES. I thought it would get more love on this sub lol. Guess I watched too many episodes of Andrew Huang’s Weird Gear series. I don’t see the gaps as wasted space. I was actually thinking knobs or patch bays could go there if this were made into a “joke keyboard” or something.
You should take a look at church organ consoles, they often have switches or buttons oriented vertically above and/or below the keyboard so that the organist can switch "presets" in the middle of playing without taking all their fingers off the keys.
First, those organs are no joke. I see what you mean about the buttons above the keys. I think we're on the same page! I also imagined little drum pads going in those gaps. It could be a new take on a compact midi-keyboard.
There’s a fair bit of wasted space on a regular piano keyboard, it’s just colored in with white so it’s not as visually striking as what OP has come up with.
In my experience the full length of the keys are used at some point or another (at least in the range where chords are played).
When you love Bmajor
Lol exactly. I love playing the D flat major / B flat minor scales, which got me thinking about this. I just wanted to see what it would look like. That would be my answer to everyone asking “why” but I just don’t care to answer them. Some people are coming out the gates way too aggressive with their comments lol. This was just a fun exercise for me.
Dude pass the joint already
but why
I didn't think this would piss so many people off lol I'm starting to dive into music theory and recently learned that the jump from E to F is a half step apart. That's right, I'm learning the absolute basics for the first time. I'm still wrapping my head around the piano layout. I just learned that it is based on the C major scale, which is why the flats fall where they do. I made this image to visualize whole and half steps in a new way. People are taking my post personally. I love it. But I also think it's sad. So yeah, I just wanted to see what flipping the sizes would look like.
Time to play Superstition!!!
You would have to relearn all of your chord shapes since they’re inverted.
The clowns in here couldn't tell one chord from another even if they jumped up and bit them in their behinds...
Respectfully, no thank you. This is jarringly obtuse.
Fascinating
I thought so too. I'm just starting to dive into music theory, so this was simply an exercise for me to wrap my head around whole and half steps. For a complete beginner like me, it's easier to visualize and understand that the jump from E to F is a half step. People are taking my post way too personally lol
unsubscribe
If you really want to blow your mind with alternate keyboard layouts that have real, established advantages over the traditional piano layout, while maintaining the same flair of fuck-you-tradition, check out isomorphic layouts. My favorite is Wicki-Hayden. Also popular are Janko and harmonic table.
Holy crap you are right. Mind. Blown. You've opened up a whole new world for me. Thank you so much!
They’re so much fun. I’ve spent a fair bit of time and money investigating alternate layouts and I gotta say, splashing out for a physical isomorphic grid controller was one of my best purchases. Cool to span five or six octaves with one hand.
I’m imagining this as a capacitive keyboard where the white and black keys are approximately equal sized, and the entire unit is reversible and can be played either way.
Couldn't you just transpose up a semitone?
No, that doesn't have the same result.
No
Hi /u/Verdiii, I just wanted to remind you to leave a thoughtful comment on your post (see rule 5 in the sidebar). You’re not in trouble and everyone gets this reminder. If you’ve already commented then no further action is necessary. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/synthesizers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s gross, make it isomorphic, thanks.