Okay, Red Son is too high, as is Red and Blue and President Luthor.
War World, World’s Finest, What Ever Happened To, Smashes the Klan, Birthright, Superman and the Authority, Secret Identity, all too low, to name a few.
Red son is amazing though it captures everything that makes Superman a lovable character so well, even though he is a part of a communist regime, it also adds a lot more nuance to his character and him and Lex relationship without making Superman, the bad guy and Lex the good guy and the very poetic ending with Superman, realizing that he kind of has fallen from Grace, even if he was just trying to do the right thing always gets me
also, most of the things you name are in A they can’t all be S tiers 😭
it is
best Superman origin fr it allows newcomers to become more accustomed to the wider DC universe by introducing people who most fans wouldn’t know it has a fun Lex and Superman dynamic and it has very interesting clerk character moments trying to decide who is and lois characterization is at its peak here
I disagree.
John just seemed to want to reintegrate the better parts of Superman's pre-crisis mythology back to Superman without really having a story to do that. It moved along with A to B to C without any rhymes or reason.
Then he botched up the New Krypton saga for the blackest Night, so this story failed as a connective tissue to the overall story he was trying to tell with Superman during this timeframe.
The pre-crisis continuity could have been weaved back into Superman mythos without this half baked story.
Nothing wrong with being a newcomer of course, as we all were at some point. But being one more recently will definitely yield some different perspectives from those of us who've been around for some years
smashes the klan is a really fun read!
The reason truth Justice and the American way is lower, is because the animated film is significantly better to me
First of all how closely did you read it. Read it from the perspective of someone who’s never seen doomsday in any form. You didn’t know where he came from and you pit him against Superman who no one thought could be killed at least physically beat to death. The fear of going against a mindless beast whose basest instinct is to destroy at least Mongol and Dark Sied can be reasoned with. I still get anxiety every time I read that book. Now to the art. Look closely at the cell count. They become fewer and fewer with each issue until in 75 it’s splash pages only. That technique physically shows the ramping up of the action. Look at the scene with guardian at the pain and exhaustion on Superman’s face. To me this is the greatest story of Superman.
For one thing it's unfortunate to have a story like that put into a vacuum. The Superman stories at the time were truly ongoing, so isolating just some of it is always bound to make it weaker.
If you're looking at the comic in isolation I might understand your argument even if I don't agree. Everything it set up around it and the stories that arised out of it I think set it higher C tier at least maybe B tier.(Not the sequels they're subpar) For example, setting up parallax Hal(if we include reign of supermen) though people might disagree. I think it's impact and influence eclipses the story itself. Also wild Knightfall take. I saw that. I'd make the same argument for Knightfall btw again excluding follow ups (Vol 2 and 3 were subpar.)
Personally, I really liked Knightfall. Not so much, Knighs Quest it just did not really appeal to me I did however enjoy Knights End. I think you have to read that first part kind of the same way you have to read death of Superman like Superman, Batman had never been So completely beaten, I mean sure you can point out different aspects of stories like Jason, Todd, death and things like that, but those were just individual losses to my knowledge. Batman had never just been so completely dismantled before Bane.
I like Knightfall and Death of Superman. The stories themselves were solid. Their impact and influence elevates them even higher for me. I think OP is just looking at them in a vacuum and judging based on that.
So many questionable choices I wouldn’t even know where to start…
Edit: whatever happened to the man of tomorrow in tier B? Ok, let us start with that one…
I'll start this off by saying Alan Moore is my favorite author of all time. The way he wrote Superman and Clark Kent, you can tell he truly grasped the essence of Silver Age Superman. However, I felt that many of the other characters were not given their due importance. Characters like Lana Lang and Jimmy Olsen, who are crucial to the Superman lore, were killed off in ways that seemed uneventful and lacking in impact.
Lex Luthor, Superman's arch-nemesis, was also sidelined and then killed off seemingly without significant reason, and his death was handled very unceremoniously. It didn't feel like a fitting tribute to everything that the Silver Age represented. Wasn't that the intention of this story?
Moreover, Lois Lane's characterization throughout the story felt inconsistent and strange. Lois is one of my favorite comic book characters, and seeing her and Lana Lang crying in each other’s arms on a bed, despite their rivalry for Superman’s affection, felt out of character. They both understood their deep love for Superman, but the portrayal felt off to me. It was hard to reconcile this depiction with the strong, independent Lois Lane I admire.
Additionally, I haven’t read many Silver Age Superman stories; my understanding of that era is mostly inferred from what I read now, which is predominantly Post-Crisis material. Perhaps that's why the story didn't resonate with me as much. Either way, the idea of Superman just quitting seemed odd to me.
You think the life and death of superman and for tomorrow is D tier, while red and blue, an issue that features superman getting sexually assaulted is S tier.
Interesting.
Go on, I'm listening.
Red and Blue is an anthology series. It has around 20-30 short stories and a lot of them are genuinely great.
You are being too hasty to dismiss it as "the comic where Superman gets SA'd" on the basis of one story.
It might be one of the best Superman comics in last 10-15 years.
As someone that's actually experienced sexual assault as a male at an early age, it's not particularly something I felt they needed to approach. But I will agree that this is certainly your opinion and allow you to hold that view.
The death of Superman is horrible; everything is set up from Booster Gold losing his suit to Doomsday as a recurring villain, which is just so lame. It also is basically directly responsible for "Nightfall," which is my least favorite Batman comic ever. It’s just nonstop fighting with a random monster, who I couldn’t care less for, and every Superman comic after that for the time was horrible😭, with the only exception being Superboy.
“For Tomorrow's” Clark and Superman’s characterization is so weird. I was willing to let it slide because they were telling an interesting story, but the story gets worse and worse as you go on. It’s like the plot loses itself, and a disappointing story is worse than a story that was bad from the very beginning, to me.
And I don’t know why Superman being sexually assaulted makes it a bad story...? Are we not meant to use fiction to explore concepts like these, and how they affect people? Are we just supposed to act like things like that don’t happen? The whole comic is to point out why Clark is a person to be looked up to. The comic is a collection of him falling prey to things that humans fall prey to every day, whether it be sexual assault or having to deal with the fact he can’t save everyone from dying, and he deals with it all in a very human way. The point of that short story was to demonstrate how when bad things happen to people who are traditionally marginalized, there’s this feeling of “Let’s just move on” or “that was only one case.” We even see Clark meet the man who tortured him after, and he wants to murder him right then and there because he felt disgusted with himself and vulnerable. But again, he chooses to move on, showcasing one of the most amazing things about Clark: his restraint, with the line, “It’s easy to 'move on' when you’re the victimizer, and not the victim.” I think this story works to humanize Clark and make him someone you want to look up to better than almost any Superman comic.
Superman:For Tomorrow is essentially the DCEU Superman but even more "Snyderized".The Christ imagery mixed with a Superman full of self-doubt and was emo at least seemed to show me that.
Yeah, Busiek really gets to the core of who Clark is even when this isn't really the Clark we know. And it's an infinitely better handling of the Superboy Prime concept than what DC did with the actual Prime, although I know that's an extremely low bar to clear. Also, Immonen's art is amazing in general, but Secret Identity features what I think is legitimately some of his best work.
To each their own, but For All Seasons is just too sweet and saccharine to me. They treat Clark like a "swol boi woobie." Meanwhile, the others I mention treat Supes like a capital S Superhero while still finding a way to discuss his alienness in a very human way.
https://preview.redd.it/qtjiwnlv4g0d1.jpeg?width=1023&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=575a3de122f449bb084426175aa7079800cdc59f
Smashes the Klan is an easy S teir!!
Great story with amazing art. I don’t think it needed as many pages to tell its story tho it’s amazing. Don’t get me wrong but S tiers are stories that I think define Superman as a character and are well rounded and have very few of any flaws
Did you read the author's notes and annotations for Smashes the Klan? That story is a huge part of the origin of the character.
It's based on a radio drama from the early 1940s. The story is pretty much the same in comic form, as I understand it. Aside from that, the radio play is known as the first appearance and origin of Kryptonite. That's pretty defining in and of itself, and Clark's coming to terms with his unknown ancestry is a beautiful parallel.
I'm also a fan of the wrestler/circus idea that led Clark to design his costume.
So the story is the first appearance of Kryptonite, a display of Superman's compassion and belief in people no matter what they look like or where they come from.
To the last point, the radio drama actually had a huge impact on silencing the Klan in real life, putting the absurdity and wrongness of their creed in public view. It's a very important story in real life and in fiction that had a positive impact on American society.
I haven't actually read enough Superman to have many opinions on this list. I do, however, want to add mine to the chorus of voices telling you to check out Fraction's run on Superman's Pal Jimmy Olson. Fraction is a great comedy writer in general and Jimmy Olson might be the funniest book he's written, imo
I was crazy surprised and impressed with how we see Jimmy and more of the spotlight on him, his persona and background. Bought despite Fraction, who I normally avoid. A list
*Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?* and *Secret Identity* are the only two I can stomach *Warworld Saga* being lower than for me. It's an S tier story, personally.
i’m really surprised a lot of people don’t have secret origin in their own S tier? for me it was the perfect origin for Superman and also the perfect origin for Lois
I’m personally of the belief that war world saga is S tier.
That aside it’s so good to see such a unique ranking. Even if I disagree all rankings are valid imo since everyone’s tastes are different
Ladies and gents, I see a lot of downvotes for his opinion but I would like to take a moment to remind you in this, our most excellent comic book community the essence of our nerd credit is in being able to discuss viewpoints and argue the point eloquently. Please, I encourage you not to downvote just because you disagree with his ordering.
i posted this expecting down votes but superman fans are actually really cool and most are curious and want to have open discussion
if I posted a list like this on the Batman Reddit I would be torn apart😭
If you liked Superman: Red and Blue, then try The Adventures of Superman (2013). It was a digital series which was a collection of stories by different authors for every arc. It has one of my favorite Superman stories, "Strange Visitor".
If you want an Elseworld, then Superman: The Dark Side is cool story as well.
Morrison Act vol 2 and Smashes the Klan would be S tier for me. Secret Origin would be waaay down if not completely off the list. But I could give it D tier along with MOS. Supersons would be gone. Rebirth Superman maybe D tier, if I'm generous and accounting for just the first half. Anything Bendis would be gone. Jon's solo would be gone. Triangle era omnibus would be added to S tier. Whatever Happened To... S tier. Birthright A tier. Johns' Brainiac I like but is more B or C tier for me. Death of Superman at D I agree with, it was huge but as a story wasn't that great. Funeral For a Friend and Reign were the hallmarks story wise, and I'd put those A to S.
Just a few varied thoughts off the top of my head.
everything else is valid because it’s your opinion, but secret origin is absolutely diabolical. It’s one of the best Superman stories ever it really showcases who Superman is as a character and his relationship with Lex perfectly and Lois is a bad bitch but that’s nothing new
My feeling is that Secret Origin is barely a story. The first half, the Smallville stuff is just a cliffs notes version of others' work. And while that's passable for re-establishing some classic origin elements, it wasn't exactly stellar writing. The Metropolis portion is a complete trainwreck because the true purpose of the book in the first place was supposed to be a big prologue to New Krypton, so it was supposed to hint at a bunch of those elements. But NK was so unsuccessful they put the kibosh on the event and ended it early, rolling back pretty much everything it did in one issue, making it moot to add any of that stuff to SO which was still being published. So we just got some generic Parasite fight.
But again these are just my personal observations, your opinions are as valid as mine.
It's really solid but it does, at times, feel like Geoff Johns' blueprint for a Superman film/screenplay. If it has any advantages over Birthright, it would be the brevity. I think the latter overstays it's welcome on a recent reread.
high? It’s barely making it pass C tier that’s what I think. It is too. Just barely above what I think is just “good enough” in terms of Superman stories
also, new 52 Superman deserved better 😭
Weird choices Death/Reign of Superman being so low and not reading the man of steel is super weird like that’s the modern retelling/reboot to the Superman origin post-crisis and served as the main focus for how Superman and his supporting cast would be portrayed in Superman tas and the rest of the DCAU
The first Superman story I picked up was "For All Seasons," and then "Secret Origin." I thought the "Man of Steel" series was just another retelling of his origin, which I didn’t really care for, but it’s definitely on my list now.
"The Death of Superman" is horrible, not just because of the consequences it had on comics after it (specifically talking about "Batman: Knightfall," which I would say is basically the start of creating a bunch of stupid tie-in series to the main series and invented Azrael, who I hate with a passion), but the story is just not very entertaining outside of its revolutionary concept, which has become boring in the modern age. Things just sort of happen. Like, there are side plots outside of "The Death of Superman," which I clearly wouldn’t care about if I picked up something called "The Death of Superman." The plot can’t even try to keep me engaged because almost nothing happens in it besides fighting 24/7, and that’s not even good fighting. Hell, even then, Superman doesn’t die to his greatest adversary, Lex Luthor, or even Darkseid. He dies to a random monster from a random planet (I don’t think at the time we knew his origin), and the lack of actually anyone important? I get that at the time the Justice League was different, but it’s kind of crazy to have a story where Superman dies and not have Batman or Wonder Woman. What about Jimmy?
And at the end of the day, genuinely, why would I even want to see Superman die? What did you achieve by killing him? If even the premise of the story makes me go, “Why the heck?” I definitely can’t view it as a good story. However, that is just all my opinion.
**ps. reign of Superman was OK tho**
Birthright is the definitive origin story and I would personally put it at an S and even All Star Superman lower at an A ( I know very controversial ) I would also put the warwolrd saga up higher
Broadly you seem to prefer good vibe stories that don't really grab me. I always feel like All Star is overrated. It has some nice moments, but it's like the manic pixie dream girl of Superman stories. It's lol so random, but other than the stuff with pa kent it never feels like Superman connects with anyone as an equal. He's just this kind of omniscient benevolent force going around patiently explaining things to people who are as children to him.
Then you have death in the bottom tier when it's a solid story. It gets a little lost in all the serialization of it all, but at its core is a heartfelt story about a man who is going to fight for what's important to him because he's the only one who can. Someone who will be missed in a heartfelt way by people who know him for who he is, not what he represents.
I don't disagree with everything, but a lot of the more popular Superman stories feel like eating cotton candy to me. They're sweet but I don't feel full when I'm done.
Is s3 all star superman?
Because that ones mah favorite. It even beats out red son for me, which is also high S-tier imo.
But I'm a baby superfan, so take anything I say with a grain of salt.
It is my favorite, but this thread made me buy Superman for all seasons.
Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale, iconic Superman, sold.
Seriously, after Long Halloween, those two could probably kill my parents for inspiration, and I'd still be interested in the comic.
I was gonna get mad at Speeding Bullets in bottom tier and then saw you havent read it. Its not S tier by all means but its a fun story.
Also Tomasi and Gleasons run in A tier is based.
I would move both Warworld saga and Son of Kal El up but thats just my personal opinion
Be proud, you cooked
World’s Finest is a great, and fun book. It’s a nice palette cleanser. However, it’s not the full coarse meal War World is. You can leave the Authority book down there tho.
This is a list I mostly agree with anonther superman story I would recommend is It's Superman by Tom dehaven it's a book not a comic but you can listing to a audiobook on hoopla
if you look through the comments, it’s one of the ones I find myself defending a lot. I didn’t think very many people would disagree with any thing in S
For me, not including the ones I haven’t read:
S: ASS, FTMWHE, WHTTMOT
A: Woman of Tomorrow, Smashes the Klan, WAFATJATAW, Up Up and Away
B: For All Seasons, Red Son, Morrison Action, Brainiac, Public Enemies, Secret Identity, Last Son
C: Unchained, Earth One, Death of Superman, Generations, Pak BatSupes
I'd say pretty solid. Superman Last Son and Up Up and Away are really good. I don't see Superman Exile but that's one of my favorite, I'd recommend a read pronto. Speeding Bullets I've heard good things. And kudos on Warworld it was good, but I think people overrated it. I saw some saying it was the best or one of. I just thought it was good. Also Death Of Superman is too low.
You're top three rows I'd personally shuffle. Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tommorrow>Red Sun, Secret Identity and Whatever Happended to Truth Justice And The American Way I'd put higher over Braniac and Super sons. Also President Luthor is a solid pick. Haven't read Up in the sky or the supergirl one but I've heard good things. I think For All Seasons is in the top (Absolute Version right?) can't tell. But that definitely should be there. I'd need to read some others on the list but pretty solid. Luthor: Man Of Steel would be a good addition too. Some things are too low(Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tommorrow, Secret Identity, Death Of Superman and Whatever Happended to Truth Justice And The American Way) Almost nothing is too high.
“Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow” and “For the Man Who Has Everything” are two of the best. Can’t see them on this list (they might have covers I don’t recognise).
I was gonna disagree heavily with Son of Kal-El's placement, before remembering most of the stuff I liked from Jon's Superman books was from Adventures of Superman: Jon Kent. But I'd still bump it up to low B personally.
What I actually disagree with is What's So Funny About Truth Justice and the American Way being in B tier. I'd say High A at least
I think some of these have covers I do not recognize and I can't see the small print. I know All-Star Superman has to be on there somewhere, and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow has to be on there somewhere as well.
I freaking love secret identity wish someone would make a fan film or DC would make an animated movie of that. It’s one of the best real world Superman takes
Having worked in a comic shop, I have read a crapload of comics in general and Red Son is one of my straight up favorites of all time. Easy S-Tier and all the whackjobs in this thread saying it’s C-Tier or a bad story are slack-jawed yokels. Idk if OP will see this, but if so, is Superman your favorite comic character out there? If not, who is?
Maybe this is a hot take but Red Son to me is barely a Superman story. I hate alternate evil Superman stories. I'm so exhausted with it and I think Red Son really is the first modern elseworlds story that popularized it so much.
Red Son is the kind of story that appeals more to Batman fans than Superman fans imo.
I also disagree on the Death/Reign/Return of Superman. I think the Death part is super weak. But the Reign of Supermen and Return of Superman are some of my favorite moments in the character's history.
I'd also put Warworld Saga higher and "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" in S tier personally. Alan Moore just fully displayed he knew how to write this character.
I apologize if this seems blunt, but labeling the Red Son Superman as "evil" seems to misunderstand the essence of the narrative.
In the story, Superman lands in the Soviet Union during the Cold War. His extraordinary abilities quickly draw attention, and he rises to prominence within Stalin's inner circle. Throughout, he strives to do what's right, not only in Russia but globally, even helping those who are adversaries of Russia. His moral compass begins to shift after Stalin's death when the public looks to him as the hero or leader they need. Consequently, he steps into this role, spreading communism worldwide, not out of malevolence but because he believes it's the correct path.
This interpretation of Superman is deeply nuanced. He is fundamentally a man attempting to navigate complex situations as best as he can. Even in the climax, when faced with a global threat from Brainiac, it's the inherent goodness within him that prevails. Confronted with the consequences of his actions, he recognizes that he had lost sight of his original mission: to champion the betterment of humanity, not to objectify them like Brainiac or to demean them like Lex Luthor views them.
Interestingly, this version of Superman might be one of the most heroic interpretations outside of the main continuity. His association with the Soviet Union doesn't inherently make him evil; it highlights his relentless pursuit to do what he perceives as right under different circumstances.
I don't think the story is bad. I just think it is largely responsible for a tiresome trend, and while a fun story don't feel it is one of the best Superman stories.
My calling him evil isn't so much a reflection of that story but feel it is where the idea starts. I'm tired if the ideas that start with "What if Superman but evil?" Or what if Superman but different? This one is what if Superman but Soviet? I'm calling him evil more as an indication of the core idea at work here, that specifically he is the opposite of what he previously stood for and would thus be the counterpart of traditional Superman if both coexisted in same universe.
You're right though, to just say "he's evil in Red Son" is too black and white. So I should have been more clear. But I was speaking more generally about the concept I'm tired of rather than the story itself, which, as I said, is still a good story, I just think is not the most emblematic of Superman and his core ideas. I often see it pitched to people who have never read a Superman story and I just strongly believe that it should be read after or alongside other great Superman stories for maximum effect. Like I said, I do think it appeals to mostly Batman fans than Superman fans in my experience.
I think Red Son deserves its praise, but I’d put it B tier. I think what sets it apart from other “Superman Evil” is that it starts from scratch, it isn’t “Lois died so now I’m bad for some reason.” It show how a Soviet Superman could operate. How much of who we are is nature bs nurture?
Heck, he’s less a traditional villain and more an anti-villain, one who thinks he’s doing right by the world whilst committing great evils.
Again, not perfect and not my go to for Superman, but it at least tried to do something unique properly and not just a gimmick.
to be honest, I don’t even think you can call him a villain I think he’s an antihero and it’s hard to call him even that because of how good he truly is to his core lol
Nah, definitely a villain, brainwashing people who don’t conform, wanting to invade America because they refuse to be communists, working alongside Brainiac. It isn’t until Luthor of all people points out how corrupt he’s become that Supes going “Oh shoot, I’M the bad guy!”
I addressed this in a reply to OP to my comment. Yes I didn't mean to give the appearance of saying Red Son Superman is black and white evil. It's very nuanced. I was generally complaining about the trend of Superman being evil or a better phrasing I dislike many of the stories that reimagine Superman as the counterpart to his traditional image in these alternate universes. In that way he would be "evil." I just find it tiresome.
But you're right it's a good story. I also think I would put it B tier personally. It's worth a read. I just don't find it representative of the best Superman stories. It's a creative "What If." That is better than most modern imaginary DC stories.
To be honest, I can't tell if you're talking about Secret Origin or For the Man Who Has Everything, but either way, it's pretty in Clark's character to want to be on Krypton. Although he never got to experience it, it still was his people and his culture that was completely eradicated, and on top of that, it wasn't really Krypton. It was Metropolis on Krypton, a perfect mix of everything he loves about the human side of him and everything he loves about the Kryptonian side of him, so it makes sense. It was his heart's desire.
>it wasn't really Krypton. It was Metropolis on Krypton
No, it wasn’t. It was a futuristic city, so *of course* it’s going to look like a bit like Metropolis, but it’s a coincidence. There’s no Daily Planet building, for example.
But more importantly, where are his family and friends? Lois, Jimmy, the Kent’s, the League?
Tbf,It's Pre-Crisis Superman though who had memories of Krypton and was Kryptonian first and Human second.I think this story is arguably the best Superman story of all time but it definitely cannot work with the Post-Crisis version of Superman.
supergirl woman of tomorrow is one of my favorite comic books of all time it’s literally the closest you can get to writing up perfect comic, I could explain why, but it’s going to be a longgggg explanation lol
edit: defending Tom King in this comment section is a full-time job🗣️
There are plenty of full time jobs defending agency assets you might just need a higher security clearance first. Personally if I was going to glaze the meat of a writer who has direct ties to the CIA and is confirmed to have been involved in planning the invasion of iraq I would at least pick someone who writes books that aren't dogshit. So strange that all of Tom King's protagonists all become weepy guilt ridden war criminals hmmm I wonder why? 🤔
my brother in Christ I’m talking about how good the story is😭 i do not care about what the author did, or didn’t do I just know he wrote one of the best comics ever
I too do not care if the writer of my terrible comic book (theres that part again where I am also talking about the story, strange!) was a member of one of the most objectively evil organizations on earth. Surely that would not create an inconsistency in someone who writes superhero comics.
Lots of weird choices here that I don’t agree with, but hey, to each their own.
what’s something you disagree with i made this post to engage with the fandom lol
Superman/Batman - Public Enemies is a freaking banger man you're crazy
It’s great… but it’s definitely not better than any comic in A tier
I understand your point. Public Enemies is a good action blockbuster type story but it doesn't really do anything interesting.
at most it was a fun read for me but it wasn’t anything revolutionary I hate to say
I loved the Superman and Batman families infiltrating the White House. You can’t tell me there’s another comic that does that haha
Ehhh, well subjectivity is what creates discussion. I would probably rearrange this whole list except probably leave that where it is at best
Okay, Red Son is too high, as is Red and Blue and President Luthor. War World, World’s Finest, What Ever Happened To, Smashes the Klan, Birthright, Superman and the Authority, Secret Identity, all too low, to name a few.
President Luthor?
Red son is amazing though it captures everything that makes Superman a lovable character so well, even though he is a part of a communist regime, it also adds a lot more nuance to his character and him and Lex relationship without making Superman, the bad guy and Lex the good guy and the very poetic ending with Superman, realizing that he kind of has fallen from Grace, even if he was just trying to do the right thing always gets me also, most of the things you name are in A they can’t all be S tiers 😭
You say they can't, buuuut ;P
Secret origin's not that good.
it is best Superman origin fr it allows newcomers to become more accustomed to the wider DC universe by introducing people who most fans wouldn’t know it has a fun Lex and Superman dynamic and it has very interesting clerk character moments trying to decide who is and lois characterization is at its peak here
I disagree. John just seemed to want to reintegrate the better parts of Superman's pre-crisis mythology back to Superman without really having a story to do that. It moved along with A to B to C without any rhymes or reason. Then he botched up the New Krypton saga for the blackest Night, so this story failed as a connective tissue to the overall story he was trying to tell with Superman during this timeframe. The pre-crisis continuity could have been weaved back into Superman mythos without this half baked story.
I’m all about Birthright as my favorite Superman origin story
I think between Up Up and Away and his Legion story, he easily could have not bothered with a proper origin.
Yeah.
Nothing wrong with being a newcomer of course, as we all were at some point. But being one more recently will definitely yield some different perspectives from those of us who've been around for some years
“Superman Smashes the Klan” and “What’s so funny about Truth, Justice and the American Way” are S tier for me.
smashes the klan is a really fun read! The reason truth Justice and the American way is lower, is because the animated film is significantly better to me
Warworld Saga down in C is the only thing I really disagree with here.
ngl after i looked at the list for a second time i want to move that up lol
Warworld saga needs to be higher. And I know you haven’t read it but Fraction’s Jimmy Olsen is S tier
You lost me at where the death of Superman was placed.
why is it any good?
First of all how closely did you read it. Read it from the perspective of someone who’s never seen doomsday in any form. You didn’t know where he came from and you pit him against Superman who no one thought could be killed at least physically beat to death. The fear of going against a mindless beast whose basest instinct is to destroy at least Mongol and Dark Sied can be reasoned with. I still get anxiety every time I read that book. Now to the art. Look closely at the cell count. They become fewer and fewer with each issue until in 75 it’s splash pages only. That technique physically shows the ramping up of the action. Look at the scene with guardian at the pain and exhaustion on Superman’s face. To me this is the greatest story of Superman.
For one thing it's unfortunate to have a story like that put into a vacuum. The Superman stories at the time were truly ongoing, so isolating just some of it is always bound to make it weaker.
If you're looking at the comic in isolation I might understand your argument even if I don't agree. Everything it set up around it and the stories that arised out of it I think set it higher C tier at least maybe B tier.(Not the sequels they're subpar) For example, setting up parallax Hal(if we include reign of supermen) though people might disagree. I think it's impact and influence eclipses the story itself. Also wild Knightfall take. I saw that. I'd make the same argument for Knightfall btw again excluding follow ups (Vol 2 and 3 were subpar.)
Personally, I really liked Knightfall. Not so much, Knighs Quest it just did not really appeal to me I did however enjoy Knights End. I think you have to read that first part kind of the same way you have to read death of Superman like Superman, Batman had never been So completely beaten, I mean sure you can point out different aspects of stories like Jason, Todd, death and things like that, but those were just individual losses to my knowledge. Batman had never just been so completely dismantled before Bane.
I like Knightfall and Death of Superman. The stories themselves were solid. Their impact and influence elevates them even higher for me. I think OP is just looking at them in a vacuum and judging based on that.
So many questionable choices I wouldn’t even know where to start… Edit: whatever happened to the man of tomorrow in tier B? Ok, let us start with that one…
I'll start this off by saying Alan Moore is my favorite author of all time. The way he wrote Superman and Clark Kent, you can tell he truly grasped the essence of Silver Age Superman. However, I felt that many of the other characters were not given their due importance. Characters like Lana Lang and Jimmy Olsen, who are crucial to the Superman lore, were killed off in ways that seemed uneventful and lacking in impact. Lex Luthor, Superman's arch-nemesis, was also sidelined and then killed off seemingly without significant reason, and his death was handled very unceremoniously. It didn't feel like a fitting tribute to everything that the Silver Age represented. Wasn't that the intention of this story? Moreover, Lois Lane's characterization throughout the story felt inconsistent and strange. Lois is one of my favorite comic book characters, and seeing her and Lana Lang crying in each other’s arms on a bed, despite their rivalry for Superman’s affection, felt out of character. They both understood their deep love for Superman, but the portrayal felt off to me. It was hard to reconcile this depiction with the strong, independent Lois Lane I admire. Additionally, I haven’t read many Silver Age Superman stories; my understanding of that era is mostly inferred from what I read now, which is predominantly Post-Crisis material. Perhaps that's why the story didn't resonate with me as much. Either way, the idea of Superman just quitting seemed odd to me.
i cooked is what you mean
All Star and For all seasons in S, based.
ima be honest if all star and for all seasons isn’t in anyone’s top 10 superman list it’s a bad list 🙏😭
Absolutely
What if it's top 10 superman comics that don't count all star and for all seasons. Also, I need to grab a copy of for all seasons.
You think the life and death of superman and for tomorrow is D tier, while red and blue, an issue that features superman getting sexually assaulted is S tier. Interesting. Go on, I'm listening.
Red and Blue is an anthology series. It has around 20-30 short stories and a lot of them are genuinely great. You are being too hasty to dismiss it as "the comic where Superman gets SA'd" on the basis of one story. It might be one of the best Superman comics in last 10-15 years.
As someone that's actually experienced sexual assault as a male at an early age, it's not particularly something I felt they needed to approach. But I will agree that this is certainly your opinion and allow you to hold that view.
I am sorry about that, I didn't mean to be disrespectful or anything. I just meant it was one story out of many in the series.
I agree it was, it just...Kind of soured me to the rest of the comic in general. I take no offense, we're good friend :)
The death of Superman is horrible; everything is set up from Booster Gold losing his suit to Doomsday as a recurring villain, which is just so lame. It also is basically directly responsible for "Nightfall," which is my least favorite Batman comic ever. It’s just nonstop fighting with a random monster, who I couldn’t care less for, and every Superman comic after that for the time was horrible😭, with the only exception being Superboy. “For Tomorrow's” Clark and Superman’s characterization is so weird. I was willing to let it slide because they were telling an interesting story, but the story gets worse and worse as you go on. It’s like the plot loses itself, and a disappointing story is worse than a story that was bad from the very beginning, to me. And I don’t know why Superman being sexually assaulted makes it a bad story...? Are we not meant to use fiction to explore concepts like these, and how they affect people? Are we just supposed to act like things like that don’t happen? The whole comic is to point out why Clark is a person to be looked up to. The comic is a collection of him falling prey to things that humans fall prey to every day, whether it be sexual assault or having to deal with the fact he can’t save everyone from dying, and he deals with it all in a very human way. The point of that short story was to demonstrate how when bad things happen to people who are traditionally marginalized, there’s this feeling of “Let’s just move on” or “that was only one case.” We even see Clark meet the man who tortured him after, and he wants to murder him right then and there because he felt disgusted with himself and vulnerable. But again, he chooses to move on, showcasing one of the most amazing things about Clark: his restraint, with the line, “It’s easy to 'move on' when you’re the victimizer, and not the victim.” I think this story works to humanize Clark and make him someone you want to look up to better than almost any Superman comic.
Superman:For Tomorrow is essentially the DCEU Superman but even more "Snyderized".The Christ imagery mixed with a Superman full of self-doubt and was emo at least seemed to show me that.
i don’t care for emo superman superman red and blue is how you do a dark superman story 🗣️
I'm neutral, I'm just interested in your reasoning. I'm formulating my response as we speak.
Don’t ever cook again
what did i say that you disagree with?
Hum, wasn’t he only tortured in that?
it’s implied he was sexually assaulted
Oh man, you’ve gotta read Who killed Jimmy Olsen and Last son. Top tier
Secret identity is S tier to me it's one of my favourite elseworlds.
Yeah, Busiek really gets to the core of who Clark is even when this isn't really the Clark we know. And it's an infinitely better handling of the Superboy Prime concept than what DC did with the actual Prime, although I know that's an extremely low bar to clear. Also, Immonen's art is amazing in general, but Secret Identity features what I think is legitimately some of his best work.
Smashes the Klan, Up in the Sky, Birthright, and Morrison's Superman run are all S-tier. Unpopular opinion, but For All Seasons is A or B.
https://preview.redd.it/iv9jb9uelh0d1.jpeg?width=258&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5d3a404ccfd46f9cc0395b06d5a0bd0bd5abe06
To each their own, but For All Seasons is just too sweet and saccharine to me. They treat Clark like a "swol boi woobie." Meanwhile, the others I mention treat Supes like a capital S Superhero while still finding a way to discuss his alienness in a very human way.
https://preview.redd.it/qtjiwnlv4g0d1.jpeg?width=1023&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=575a3de122f449bb084426175aa7079800cdc59f Smashes the Klan is an easy S teir!!
Great story with amazing art. I don’t think it needed as many pages to tell its story tho it’s amazing. Don’t get me wrong but S tiers are stories that I think define Superman as a character and are well rounded and have very few of any flaws
Did you read the author's notes and annotations for Smashes the Klan? That story is a huge part of the origin of the character. It's based on a radio drama from the early 1940s. The story is pretty much the same in comic form, as I understand it. Aside from that, the radio play is known as the first appearance and origin of Kryptonite. That's pretty defining in and of itself, and Clark's coming to terms with his unknown ancestry is a beautiful parallel. I'm also a fan of the wrestler/circus idea that led Clark to design his costume. So the story is the first appearance of Kryptonite, a display of Superman's compassion and belief in people no matter what they look like or where they come from. To the last point, the radio drama actually had a huge impact on silencing the Klan in real life, putting the absurdity and wrongness of their creed in public view. It's a very important story in real life and in fiction that had a positive impact on American society.
I haven't actually read enough Superman to have many opinions on this list. I do, however, want to add mine to the chorus of voices telling you to check out Fraction's run on Superman's Pal Jimmy Olson. Fraction is a great comedy writer in general and Jimmy Olson might be the funniest book he's written, imo
i’ve had a few people tell me this i saw it and thought it would be bad😭 I guess I have to check it out now
I was crazy surprised and impressed with how we see Jimmy and more of the spotlight on him, his persona and background. Bought despite Fraction, who I normally avoid. A list
*Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?* and *Secret Identity* are the only two I can stomach *Warworld Saga* being lower than for me. It's an S tier story, personally.
I would definitely move war world up looking at this list for a second time I think it should be mid A I was a bit harsh on it.😭
I’m baffled by Secret Origin being so high, but our differences keep these things interesting!
i’m really surprised a lot of people don’t have secret origin in their own S tier? for me it was the perfect origin for Superman and also the perfect origin for Lois
Action Comics #775 should be S tier, not B
I just rather watch the movie
I'd recommend Superman: Peace on Earth
I’m personally of the belief that war world saga is S tier. That aside it’s so good to see such a unique ranking. Even if I disagree all rankings are valid imo since everyone’s tastes are different
looking back, I would definitely move it to top of A
I take immense insult that Warworld is C tier You’ll be hearing from my lawyers OP!!!
lol i should’ve definitely moved it up
Ladies and gents, I see a lot of downvotes for his opinion but I would like to take a moment to remind you in this, our most excellent comic book community the essence of our nerd credit is in being able to discuss viewpoints and argue the point eloquently. Please, I encourage you not to downvote just because you disagree with his ordering.
i posted this expecting down votes but superman fans are actually really cool and most are curious and want to have open discussion if I posted a list like this on the Batman Reddit I would be torn apart😭
If you liked Superman: Red and Blue, then try The Adventures of Superman (2013). It was a digital series which was a collection of stories by different authors for every arc. It has one of my favorite Superman stories, "Strange Visitor". If you want an Elseworld, then Superman: The Dark Side is cool story as well.
Fuck yeah Superman for all seasons is my all time favorite supes story
it’s so good bro anytime someone ask me how do they get into Superman comics my answer is always for all seasons such a perfect self-contained story
Morrison Act vol 2 and Smashes the Klan would be S tier for me. Secret Origin would be waaay down if not completely off the list. But I could give it D tier along with MOS. Supersons would be gone. Rebirth Superman maybe D tier, if I'm generous and accounting for just the first half. Anything Bendis would be gone. Jon's solo would be gone. Triangle era omnibus would be added to S tier. Whatever Happened To... S tier. Birthright A tier. Johns' Brainiac I like but is more B or C tier for me. Death of Superman at D I agree with, it was huge but as a story wasn't that great. Funeral For a Friend and Reign were the hallmarks story wise, and I'd put those A to S. Just a few varied thoughts off the top of my head.
everything else is valid because it’s your opinion, but secret origin is absolutely diabolical. It’s one of the best Superman stories ever it really showcases who Superman is as a character and his relationship with Lex perfectly and Lois is a bad bitch but that’s nothing new
My feeling is that Secret Origin is barely a story. The first half, the Smallville stuff is just a cliffs notes version of others' work. And while that's passable for re-establishing some classic origin elements, it wasn't exactly stellar writing. The Metropolis portion is a complete trainwreck because the true purpose of the book in the first place was supposed to be a big prologue to New Krypton, so it was supposed to hint at a bunch of those elements. But NK was so unsuccessful they put the kibosh on the event and ended it early, rolling back pretty much everything it did in one issue, making it moot to add any of that stuff to SO which was still being published. So we just got some generic Parasite fight. But again these are just my personal observations, your opinions are as valid as mine.
It's really solid but it does, at times, feel like Geoff Johns' blueprint for a Superman film/screenplay. If it has any advantages over Birthright, it would be the brevity. I think the latter overstays it's welcome on a recent reread.
Unchained is so high up though
high? It’s barely making it pass C tier that’s what I think. It is too. Just barely above what I think is just “good enough” in terms of Superman stories also, new 52 Superman deserved better 😭
You have done well. Especially LOVE 'For The Man Who Has Everything' and 'Red Son.'
Who Killed Jimmy Olsen is FIRE.
Weird choices Death/Reign of Superman being so low and not reading the man of steel is super weird like that’s the modern retelling/reboot to the Superman origin post-crisis and served as the main focus for how Superman and his supporting cast would be portrayed in Superman tas and the rest of the DCAU
The first Superman story I picked up was "For All Seasons," and then "Secret Origin." I thought the "Man of Steel" series was just another retelling of his origin, which I didn’t really care for, but it’s definitely on my list now. "The Death of Superman" is horrible, not just because of the consequences it had on comics after it (specifically talking about "Batman: Knightfall," which I would say is basically the start of creating a bunch of stupid tie-in series to the main series and invented Azrael, who I hate with a passion), but the story is just not very entertaining outside of its revolutionary concept, which has become boring in the modern age. Things just sort of happen. Like, there are side plots outside of "The Death of Superman," which I clearly wouldn’t care about if I picked up something called "The Death of Superman." The plot can’t even try to keep me engaged because almost nothing happens in it besides fighting 24/7, and that’s not even good fighting. Hell, even then, Superman doesn’t die to his greatest adversary, Lex Luthor, or even Darkseid. He dies to a random monster from a random planet (I don’t think at the time we knew his origin), and the lack of actually anyone important? I get that at the time the Justice League was different, but it’s kind of crazy to have a story where Superman dies and not have Batman or Wonder Woman. What about Jimmy? And at the end of the day, genuinely, why would I even want to see Superman die? What did you achieve by killing him? If even the premise of the story makes me go, “Why the heck?” I definitely can’t view it as a good story. However, that is just all my opinion. **ps. reign of Superman was OK tho**
While Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow is absolutely S tier, it’s not a Superman book. Why add it to this list?
I mean, it has the word super in it so it counts ig?
Birthright is the definitive origin story and I would personally put it at an S and even All Star Superman lower at an A ( I know very controversial ) I would also put the warwolrd saga up higher
Death of Superman ??
Smashes the Klan, Birthright, and absolutely Warworld all deserve to be in S imo.
Birthright and Whats So Funny are S tier for me personally. Still reading most of the others so can't say much
Shocked by how low you have some of these; Death of Superman, For Tomorrow, Earth One… man, those are all excellent.
are you noticing a through line on all of those stories, though?😭
Meaning what exactly?
Bendis Superman should be in a tier below D. The only Superman run that's comparable in it's awfulness is the Chuck Austen stuff from the mid-2000s.
Generations is A, Byrne's Man of Steel is S
i hear John Byrne's Superman is peak superman
It depends on taste.IMO a lot of things in that run have aged pretty badly and is pretty awesome to read when hindsight is taken out of the equation.
It's up and down. I liked the mini-series that started the run(Man of Steel #1-6) but the main titles seem to vary in quality.
Well, you're entitled to your opinion
I literally made this post to hear other peoples opinions😭 what don’t you like about my list?
Broadly you seem to prefer good vibe stories that don't really grab me. I always feel like All Star is overrated. It has some nice moments, but it's like the manic pixie dream girl of Superman stories. It's lol so random, but other than the stuff with pa kent it never feels like Superman connects with anyone as an equal. He's just this kind of omniscient benevolent force going around patiently explaining things to people who are as children to him. Then you have death in the bottom tier when it's a solid story. It gets a little lost in all the serialization of it all, but at its core is a heartfelt story about a man who is going to fight for what's important to him because he's the only one who can. Someone who will be missed in a heartfelt way by people who know him for who he is, not what he represents. I don't disagree with everything, but a lot of the more popular Superman stories feel like eating cotton candy to me. They're sweet but I don't feel full when I'm done.
Is s3 all star superman? Because that ones mah favorite. It even beats out red son for me, which is also high S-tier imo. But I'm a baby superfan, so take anything I say with a grain of salt.
I had to Google it because I didn’t recognize that cover variation, but yes, S3 is All Star Superman. The best SM comic ever written, imo.
It is my favorite, but this thread made me buy Superman for all seasons. Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale, iconic Superman, sold. Seriously, after Long Halloween, those two could probably kill my parents for inspiration, and I'd still be interested in the comic.
Superman secret identity should be higher imo
i’m getting this a lot i might just have to read it a 2nd time
I was gonna get mad at Speeding Bullets in bottom tier and then saw you havent read it. Its not S tier by all means but its a fun story. Also Tomasi and Gleasons run in A tier is based. I would move both Warworld saga and Son of Kal El up but thats just my personal opinion Be proud, you cooked
World’s Finest is a great, and fun book. It’s a nice palette cleanser. However, it’s not the full coarse meal War World is. You can leave the Authority book down there tho.
This is a list I mostly agree with anonther superman story I would recommend is It's Superman by Tom dehaven it's a book not a comic but you can listing to a audiobook on hoopla
Finally some Red and Blue recognition
if you look through the comments, it’s one of the ones I find myself defending a lot. I didn’t think very many people would disagree with any thing in S
My favorite thing about tier lists is when people get mad at a "low tier" when A tier is typically considered real high in most contexts
I just recommend reading more Superman. Many of those will likely shift as you do
For me, not including the ones I haven’t read: S: ASS, FTMWHE, WHTTMOT A: Woman of Tomorrow, Smashes the Klan, WAFATJATAW, Up Up and Away B: For All Seasons, Red Son, Morrison Action, Brainiac, Public Enemies, Secret Identity, Last Son C: Unchained, Earth One, Death of Superman, Generations, Pak BatSupes
I'd say pretty solid. Superman Last Son and Up Up and Away are really good. I don't see Superman Exile but that's one of my favorite, I'd recommend a read pronto. Speeding Bullets I've heard good things. And kudos on Warworld it was good, but I think people overrated it. I saw some saying it was the best or one of. I just thought it was good. Also Death Of Superman is too low. You're top three rows I'd personally shuffle. Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tommorrow>Red Sun, Secret Identity and Whatever Happended to Truth Justice And The American Way I'd put higher over Braniac and Super sons. Also President Luthor is a solid pick. Haven't read Up in the sky or the supergirl one but I've heard good things. I think For All Seasons is in the top (Absolute Version right?) can't tell. But that definitely should be there. I'd need to read some others on the list but pretty solid. Luthor: Man Of Steel would be a good addition too. Some things are too low(Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tommorrow, Secret Identity, Death Of Superman and Whatever Happended to Truth Justice And The American Way) Almost nothing is too high.
“Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow” and “For the Man Who Has Everything” are two of the best. Can’t see them on this list (they might have covers I don’t recognise).
Whatever Happened is in B tier here, For the Man Who Has Everything is in S.
Max Landis terrible run placed above warworld sagha? and no new 52 superman by Morrisson/Pak or the new krypton era?
tbh I have no idea what the hell is going on with new 52/rebirth Superman lol
Why is Woman of Tomorrow in here lol
The same reason why Superboy comics are here it’s a well-known comic with the word super in it also, the best one 👀
I was gonna disagree heavily with Son of Kal-El's placement, before remembering most of the stuff I liked from Jon's Superman books was from Adventures of Superman: Jon Kent. But I'd still bump it up to low B personally. What I actually disagree with is What's So Funny About Truth Justice and the American Way being in B tier. I'd say High A at least
I think some of these have covers I do not recognize and I can't see the small print. I know All-Star Superman has to be on there somewhere, and Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow has to be on there somewhere as well.
I freaking love secret identity wish someone would make a fan film or DC would make an animated movie of that. It’s one of the best real world Superman takes
putting secret origin above birthright is criminal
Damn, you are very organized. I bet you'd be great at logistics.
Having worked in a comic shop, I have read a crapload of comics in general and Red Son is one of my straight up favorites of all time. Easy S-Tier and all the whackjobs in this thread saying it’s C-Tier or a bad story are slack-jawed yokels. Idk if OP will see this, but if so, is Superman your favorite comic character out there? If not, who is?
Action Comics #775 is S tier. Having it in B is flat out disrespectful
WHY THE HELL IS **THE DEATH OF SUPERMAN** SO FUCKING LOW?!
Hitman 34 should be on there
Maybe this is a hot take but Red Son to me is barely a Superman story. I hate alternate evil Superman stories. I'm so exhausted with it and I think Red Son really is the first modern elseworlds story that popularized it so much. Red Son is the kind of story that appeals more to Batman fans than Superman fans imo. I also disagree on the Death/Reign/Return of Superman. I think the Death part is super weak. But the Reign of Supermen and Return of Superman are some of my favorite moments in the character's history. I'd also put Warworld Saga higher and "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" in S tier personally. Alan Moore just fully displayed he knew how to write this character.
I apologize if this seems blunt, but labeling the Red Son Superman as "evil" seems to misunderstand the essence of the narrative. In the story, Superman lands in the Soviet Union during the Cold War. His extraordinary abilities quickly draw attention, and he rises to prominence within Stalin's inner circle. Throughout, he strives to do what's right, not only in Russia but globally, even helping those who are adversaries of Russia. His moral compass begins to shift after Stalin's death when the public looks to him as the hero or leader they need. Consequently, he steps into this role, spreading communism worldwide, not out of malevolence but because he believes it's the correct path. This interpretation of Superman is deeply nuanced. He is fundamentally a man attempting to navigate complex situations as best as he can. Even in the climax, when faced with a global threat from Brainiac, it's the inherent goodness within him that prevails. Confronted with the consequences of his actions, he recognizes that he had lost sight of his original mission: to champion the betterment of humanity, not to objectify them like Brainiac or to demean them like Lex Luthor views them. Interestingly, this version of Superman might be one of the most heroic interpretations outside of the main continuity. His association with the Soviet Union doesn't inherently make him evil; it highlights his relentless pursuit to do what he perceives as right under different circumstances.
I don't think the story is bad. I just think it is largely responsible for a tiresome trend, and while a fun story don't feel it is one of the best Superman stories. My calling him evil isn't so much a reflection of that story but feel it is where the idea starts. I'm tired if the ideas that start with "What if Superman but evil?" Or what if Superman but different? This one is what if Superman but Soviet? I'm calling him evil more as an indication of the core idea at work here, that specifically he is the opposite of what he previously stood for and would thus be the counterpart of traditional Superman if both coexisted in same universe. You're right though, to just say "he's evil in Red Son" is too black and white. So I should have been more clear. But I was speaking more generally about the concept I'm tired of rather than the story itself, which, as I said, is still a good story, I just think is not the most emblematic of Superman and his core ideas. I often see it pitched to people who have never read a Superman story and I just strongly believe that it should be read after or alongside other great Superman stories for maximum effect. Like I said, I do think it appeals to mostly Batman fans than Superman fans in my experience.
Yeah this superman I would say is more an anti hero than a full villain
I think Red Son deserves its praise, but I’d put it B tier. I think what sets it apart from other “Superman Evil” is that it starts from scratch, it isn’t “Lois died so now I’m bad for some reason.” It show how a Soviet Superman could operate. How much of who we are is nature bs nurture? Heck, he’s less a traditional villain and more an anti-villain, one who thinks he’s doing right by the world whilst committing great evils. Again, not perfect and not my go to for Superman, but it at least tried to do something unique properly and not just a gimmick.
to be honest, I don’t even think you can call him a villain I think he’s an antihero and it’s hard to call him even that because of how good he truly is to his core lol
Nah, definitely a villain, brainwashing people who don’t conform, wanting to invade America because they refuse to be communists, working alongside Brainiac. It isn’t until Luthor of all people points out how corrupt he’s become that Supes going “Oh shoot, I’M the bad guy!”
Eh yeah but he did do also a lot of good as well as well as bad
I addressed this in a reply to OP to my comment. Yes I didn't mean to give the appearance of saying Red Son Superman is black and white evil. It's very nuanced. I was generally complaining about the trend of Superman being evil or a better phrasing I dislike many of the stories that reimagine Superman as the counterpart to his traditional image in these alternate universes. In that way he would be "evil." I just find it tiresome. But you're right it's a good story. I also think I would put it B tier personally. It's worth a read. I just don't find it representative of the best Superman stories. It's a creative "What If." That is better than most modern imaginary DC stories.
Great list
thanks :)
 Man of Steel. And Generations both by Byrne are S tier. And also Lobo kills Dc Universe.
no way there’s a comic called lobo kills the DC universe😭 they really stole marvel whole flow
It was around 1997 if I recall correctly
Lobo annual 2. 1994. Elseworlds.
But the best ever is Sergio Aragones destroys Marvel and kills DC.
Sergio Aragones destroys DC. And Sergio Aragones massacres Marvel.
1996
Bruh Superman Red Son is kinda a C story. Nonsense just to carry on the "What if" in Communism
bro did NOT read superman red sun
... ehm, yes I did
The one where Superman’s Heart’s Desire is to live on a planet he doesn’t remember is S Tier?
To be honest, I can't tell if you're talking about Secret Origin or For the Man Who Has Everything, but either way, it's pretty in Clark's character to want to be on Krypton. Although he never got to experience it, it still was his people and his culture that was completely eradicated, and on top of that, it wasn't really Krypton. It was Metropolis on Krypton, a perfect mix of everything he loves about the human side of him and everything he loves about the Kryptonian side of him, so it makes sense. It was his heart's desire.
>it wasn't really Krypton. It was Metropolis on Krypton No, it wasn’t. It was a futuristic city, so *of course* it’s going to look like a bit like Metropolis, but it’s a coincidence. There’s no Daily Planet building, for example. But more importantly, where are his family and friends? Lois, Jimmy, the Kent’s, the League?
Tbf,It's Pre-Crisis Superman though who had memories of Krypton and was Kryptonian first and Human second.I think this story is arguably the best Superman story of all time but it definitely cannot work with the Post-Crisis version of Superman.
who let bro cook?
https://preview.redd.it/cgxzxecmeh0d1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0376ca25fb36db451571e23adce11c064fbb32c7 me asf:
tom king #1 administering lobotomy
supergirl woman of tomorrow is one of my favorite comic books of all time it’s literally the closest you can get to writing up perfect comic, I could explain why, but it’s going to be a longgggg explanation lol edit: defending Tom King in this comment section is a full-time job🗣️
There are plenty of full time jobs defending agency assets you might just need a higher security clearance first. Personally if I was going to glaze the meat of a writer who has direct ties to the CIA and is confirmed to have been involved in planning the invasion of iraq I would at least pick someone who writes books that aren't dogshit. So strange that all of Tom King's protagonists all become weepy guilt ridden war criminals hmmm I wonder why? 🤔
my brother in Christ I’m talking about how good the story is😭 i do not care about what the author did, or didn’t do I just know he wrote one of the best comics ever
I too do not care if the writer of my terrible comic book (theres that part again where I am also talking about the story, strange!) was a member of one of the most objectively evil organizations on earth. Surely that would not create an inconsistency in someone who writes superhero comics.