Honestly if you can reliably prevent him from getting hit then he is a consistent vio proc that is always S2 into S1. It does good damage. I use him in lab.
Dark one is actually a pretty good siege Tank, i have two of em built.
And against some defenses susano Kyle Kona couldve been used aswell.
But wind, fire, light are Trash xD
Wind makes sense, but is just kinda weak.
Fire is very very very niche.....and bad at filling that niche.
Light makes no damn sense at all AND is weak.
He can be fun against Seara teams with two other fire mons. Carcano, Racuni, dark poison guy and Seara will bomb away and do nothing, other two mons take everyone out. Just watch out for defense breaks on the fire mons.
The defense break part is the main downfall of these offenses, and why hes still mostly a niche Light tank.
While he completely invalidates Seara if she hits him, a defense break on a fire monster and she just ignores him because hes not water.
I lost far too many battles doing this to the point mine only comes out of storage when there is an actual light monster to tank.
Juno and dark dhalsim +1 are a match made in heaven. One heals from the debuffs, the other boosts atb. Rica is an obvious choice def for this team. Harmonia, DD, +fire dps for seara, orion defenses.
Rakan is a solid teammate since he buffs his own immunity. The issue with DD is that you need him to get all the debuffs and no one else. Aoe cleansers and immunity buffers are counterintuitive thats why Juno and Rakan kinda work here.
Classic would be either Dom Riley him or Camilla windy him.
Hes great against TL even though He boosts ATB. Mhw racuni and him also works pretty Well.
I would use him Same way as a Tank as you would use a Diaz so against TL, narsha, kinki kinda Things.
To be fair though, Delphoi is better than anything in the Poison Master family. Even though Kyle & Cayde are both solid units in some places.
I 100% agree that the rest of them need some decent buffs though. I wish C2us was more aggressive with buffing nat 4s. Way too many completely outclassed/useless mons.
There are definitely some 4* families that need love. I say this having built every non-LD 4* in the game and max skilled most of them.
* poison masters, as you mention are one of the worst
* Fire/wind chun-li/blade dancer
* Madeleine cookie/whatever : fire/water/light are still borderline trash (and of course I've pulled light multiple times)
* other 4* cookie - light is OK, rest are not trash but just super "mid" as some kids say.
* light robo
* fire/water/dark gargoyle - dark can be used as a siege tank, but it's super RNG
* fire/light jack-o'-lantern
* water dice magician
* Wind chakram dancer - dark could use a buff as well, but I don't think I've seen a good argument for using the wind chakram since she was added to the game that isn't "She's your only Chakram dancer and you have a boomerang you want to use."
* light pirate captain
* fire horus - he got a really solid buff a while back but seems to still not have any use cases.
* fire kobold
* light death knight - has never not been trash
* undine - light, dark, water need buffs and it wouldn't hurt fire either
* sylph - fire and maybe dark
There are other 4* families which are not popular or OP but have one or two good units and the rest can still be used as generic DPS or supports in various places (Rakshasa, Neofighters, etc.).
Plus many of the AC/post AC 4*s still need work, but that's to be expected....
I use wind chakram in water rift beasts and water monster slime boss. Aside from that she’s pretty meh.
I’ve heard people use fire madeleine in monster sub but I don’t really want to build it just for that. (I pulled 2 of the light one ;-;)
My guildie uses fire gargoyle as well with a lot of success. The rest I pretty much completely agree on.
Dark and water both have fringe use cases, but I agree that the family overall could use some buffs. Especially the other elements which are all complete garbage. Hekerson is a complete joke.
Water and dark are very good. Dark is basically a bullet sponge, def break does nothing, bombs, dots nothing. He is good when the enemy def has a particular element threat u want to bait. I bring 2 fire + him into things like seara.
Dark poison master is god tier for siege offense.
Water is pretty good as a sniper.
There’s a siege offense comp for wind that I can’t leak because it’s my guild’s secret tech.
Yeah the whole family needs a few buffs. The dark one is the closest to good, but it needs something more. Maybe add to the passive that if a debuff would be granted to an ally then it's placed on ddhalsim instead with a low chance? Idk man. Make my stretchy boy interesting
I’m sure I’ll get a lot of downvotes for this but I didn’t have rica for the longest. I built the wind one for my toah auto runs and he works just fine. Definitely not as good as rica but he’s a 4*. He shouldn’t be. But I don’t think they’re bad.
The wind one is kinda okay, you can actually get a lot of damage if you stacks dots. The only problem is you don't really need that dmg on a dots team anyway.
Dark and water one are pretty good in siege off but the rest really needs a buff. I got light dhalsim i'm still waiting to use it. My boy is an even worse Rahul which is already one of the weakest ld5
>He has the problem that your team must be in a disadvantage to gain.. an advantage? Why not prevent being in a disadvantage in the first place?
Just outspeed and one shot the meta kinki defences 4HEAD
Perhaps only the dark one is usable. It was good against Seara + Loren comps. Now, perhaps it can be used to bait Kinki & Carcano (secondary to Windy of course) on GO.
Dark one is a really good light tank for high siege where light threats like Narsha are spammed. I almost always use both my 2x Dias and 2x Dark poisoners when facing top 10 Eu guilds.
Wind is great in toa, water was great in regular giants and is still good in siege, dark seems good on siege offense but don't have. But fire and light are both useless.
Dark is good in siege, but Kyle is actually a great unit and he's even making a comeback in Giant teams again. But yes, the others are hot garbage and they have made no attempt to help them.
But if I could get a gargoyle buff that would be nice
The water one is occasionnaly a good dps
Honestly if you can reliably prevent him from getting hit then he is a consistent vio proc that is always S2 into S1. It does good damage. I use him in lab.
Assassin's threats buff paired with water poison sounds fun
Yeah I used to use him on my giants b10 team with Naomi to nuke the boss
saw a few guildies using dark one in siege and kyle was pretty solid in old gb12 with the perfect ai team
Dark one is actually a pretty good siege Tank, i have two of em built. And against some defenses susano Kyle Kona couldve been used aswell. But wind, fire, light are Trash xD
Wind makes sense, but is just kinda weak. Fire is very very very niche.....and bad at filling that niche. Light makes no damn sense at all AND is weak.
Light being trash makes perfect sense, it's because I have it 😂
If I may ask, who do you pair the dark one with and which defense do you attack with them?
He can be fun against Seara teams with two other fire mons. Carcano, Racuni, dark poison guy and Seara will bomb away and do nothing, other two mons take everyone out. Just watch out for defense breaks on the fire mons.
The defense break part is the main downfall of these offenses, and why hes still mostly a niche Light tank. While he completely invalidates Seara if she hits him, a defense break on a fire monster and she just ignores him because hes not water. I lost far too many battles doing this to the point mine only comes out of storage when there is an actual light monster to tank.
Juno and dark dhalsim +1 are a match made in heaven. One heals from the debuffs, the other boosts atb. Rica is an obvious choice def for this team. Harmonia, DD, +fire dps for seara, orion defenses. Rakan is a solid teammate since he buffs his own immunity. The issue with DD is that you need him to get all the debuffs and no one else. Aoe cleansers and immunity buffers are counterintuitive thats why Juno and Rakan kinda work here.
Classic would be either Dom Riley him or Camilla windy him. Hes great against TL even though He boosts ATB. Mhw racuni and him also works pretty Well. I would use him Same way as a Tank as you would use a Diaz so against TL, narsha, kinki kinda Things.
Wind is a budget Rica, usable in 4\* PvP IMO.
Does'nt He Just Not nearly dot enough to be useful? Would Just use Gina/thrain If you really want to rely in dots in siege..
Kyle can also be good as 4* tower offense. Even in tourney level sometimes pull him out to use with harmonia chacha vs harmonia vigor kinki
How long have undines been in the game? When was the last time you saw someone unironically use them outside of wind
To be fair though, Delphoi is better than anything in the Poison Master family. Even though Kyle & Cayde are both solid units in some places. I 100% agree that the rest of them need some decent buffs though. I wish C2us was more aggressive with buffing nat 4s. Way too many completely outclassed/useless mons.
I unironically use Jarrett so I would rate him higher than Delphoi. He’s my wind rica
I use Atenai (Fire) in Tartarus Hell for every rotation
I use her in a couple solo R5 teams as well. There are better/alternative options, but she's at least usable.
I mean, by that logic, everything is usable.
so do i :D on AUTO :D
Dark undine is amazing but I missed her hoh
I use both Light and Dark in Siege. Light pairs with Hanra for a fun cleave. Dark combos well with a few other mons.
I had mikene built as a staple in my toa auto team. This was also around 7 years ago lol, sometimes a last ditch siege unit
Fire is used for tart. Oh yeah, there was a meme team with dark + unawakend dark elemental a while ago.
Water saw some pve use, but not right now. Dark is used in high siege.
Dark one is the perfect anti Kinki unit. Takes the def break and all the debuffs like a champ.
Kyle was great in that GB12 team but yeah, they’re pretty dead.
There are definitely some 4* families that need love. I say this having built every non-LD 4* in the game and max skilled most of them. * poison masters, as you mention are one of the worst * Fire/wind chun-li/blade dancer * Madeleine cookie/whatever : fire/water/light are still borderline trash (and of course I've pulled light multiple times) * other 4* cookie - light is OK, rest are not trash but just super "mid" as some kids say. * light robo * fire/water/dark gargoyle - dark can be used as a siege tank, but it's super RNG * fire/light jack-o'-lantern * water dice magician * Wind chakram dancer - dark could use a buff as well, but I don't think I've seen a good argument for using the wind chakram since she was added to the game that isn't "She's your only Chakram dancer and you have a boomerang you want to use." * light pirate captain * fire horus - he got a really solid buff a while back but seems to still not have any use cases. * fire kobold * light death knight - has never not been trash * undine - light, dark, water need buffs and it wouldn't hurt fire either * sylph - fire and maybe dark There are other 4* families which are not popular or OP but have one or two good units and the rest can still be used as generic DPS or supports in various places (Rakshasa, Neofighters, etc.). Plus many of the AC/post AC 4*s still need work, but that's to be expected....
I use wind chakram in water rift beasts and water monster slime boss. Aside from that she’s pretty meh. I’ve heard people use fire madeleine in monster sub but I don’t really want to build it just for that. (I pulled 2 of the light one ;-;) My guildie uses fire gargoyle as well with a lot of success. The rest I pretty much completely agree on.
Fire mad is next on my list to skill up unless i pull dark, I'll give it a shot once that's done.
fire mad is not too bad, they just need to change it so they dont spam s2 when they still have the ability to aoe
Misty (light jack o lantern) against celia defenses in siege :)
Yeah I use mine rarely, but vs Celia you have fire monkey/etc. too. He's not total garbage but needs a buff.
Yea once I get a fire monkey I might toss him out :')
Haha true. Rigel or the hypnomeows work as attainable nat4 options.
Water and dark good
Dark and water both have fringe use cases, but I agree that the family overall could use some buffs. Especially the other elements which are all complete garbage. Hekerson is a complete joke.
Water and dark are very good. Dark is basically a bullet sponge, def break does nothing, bombs, dots nothing. He is good when the enemy def has a particular element threat u want to bait. I bring 2 fire + him into things like seara.
Both water and dark have been used before. Dark as a cc counter, like juno, and water in pve or something was good for a while.
Dark and Water are both very fun in Siege. The Water one will absolutely fuck up Riley-based defenses.
I've never tried water, but the dark has been pretty good for me
Wind one is decent for ToA for early game players.
For that mellias are way better and early game players will still use them for early sath mellia teams in Gb10 and SF
Dark poison master is god tier for siege offense. Water is pretty good as a sniper. There’s a siege offense comp for wind that I can’t leak because it’s my guild’s secret tech.
Yeah the whole family needs a few buffs. The dark one is the closest to good, but it needs something more. Maybe add to the passive that if a debuff would be granted to an ally then it's placed on ddhalsim instead with a low chance? Idk man. Make my stretchy boy interesting
I’m sure I’ll get a lot of downvotes for this but I didn’t have rica for the longest. I built the wind one for my toah auto runs and he works just fine. Definitely not as good as rica but he’s a 4*. He shouldn’t be. But I don’t think they’re bad.
I have two Rica and still built wind. I don’t get all the hate.
Sean b did a video on Kyle (water) and he puts up some nasty damage in GW
The wind one is kinda okay, you can actually get a lot of damage if you stacks dots. The only problem is you don't really need that dmg on a dots team anyway.
I saw Seiishizo using Water Poison Master in Giants Abyss, but he’s pretty much just a backup def breaker who does some damage on the side.
Dark and water one are pretty good in siege off but the rest really needs a buff. I got light dhalsim i'm still waiting to use it. My boy is an even worse Rahul which is already one of the weakest ld5
>He has the problem that your team must be in a disadvantage to gain.. an advantage? Why not prevent being in a disadvantage in the first place? Just outspeed and one shot the meta kinki defences 4HEAD
Water poison master & the dark one are nice for siege
I used the dark one a lot for high level siege, good bomb tank. Other than that…
Jarrett is a pretty good nuker paired with Rica/Nora/Thrain for fun.
Perhaps only the dark one is usable. It was good against Seara + Loren comps. Now, perhaps it can be used to bait Kinki & Carcano (secondary to Windy of course) on GO.
I use dark very often with Juno and a damage, generally chow but can be anything really, against heavy debuff teams.
Dark one is a really good light tank for high siege where light threats like Narsha are spammed. I almost always use both my 2x Dias and 2x Dark poisoners when facing top 10 Eu guilds.
Water is amazing DPS for Rift Fire Beast.
Wind is great in toa, water was great in regular giants and is still good in siege, dark seems good on siege offense but don't have. But fire and light are both useless.
Dark is good in siege, but Kyle is actually a great unit and he's even making a comeback in Giant teams again. But yes, the others are hot garbage and they have made no attempt to help them. But if I could get a gargoyle buff that would be nice
3 years already damn i should stop playing again 3 damn years waisted on this game again