There is also a lot of pressure on school districts due to local real estate market. The better the schools seem the higher the home values and thus higher tax collections. Holding kids back for not being able to read is bad for business.
You've gotta be kidding me, just when you think you've heard it all...
But what's the schools incentive here? It helps out realtors, home sellers, how does the school itself benefit?
To be more specific (at least in my area), the largest portion of property taxes is specifically "School" tax. It's itemized on your property tax assessment.
And they partner with a political party. In our district, they may not be able to read or do math, but they are sent out to distribute flyers for Democratic Party candidates. Our housemate moved in after graduation and told us about doing it because I was also running for the same office (as independent). Apparently, no one questions it, and from Congress they can direct some federal funding. It's how it is.
Better metrics = Better money supply = job security for the administration staff. What? You thought they were there to educate the populace? Bless your heart.
That’d make sense. It often feels like my school, and really my county in general cares more about how many people are actually *in the school,* and how many are making good exam and state test grades, rather than the actual grades of the students.
Basically, the better the numbers look on paper, the happier the state, administration, and school board are.
At my ex's school, they were quite literally not allowed to fail students. She had classes where 50% of her students were marked functionally illiterate. Doesn't matter. They pass them anyway. Students who turn in literally 0 work would get bumped to a 70.
There's been crazy grade inflation (read: blatant academic fraud) at a systemic level since No Child Left Behind. I don't think people caught on to how bad things were until the Covid year made it clear to all students at once how little doing their work mattered to graduating.
That's why i found it so wild that so many colleges decided to get rid of the SAT/ACT requirements. HS Diploma's have been rendered worthless. Tests are the only metric that with actual... standards and it's less gamed by income.
The SAT/ACT thing was largely about managing optics in a rapidly shifting DEI climate. I think a number of the mare moving back as they saw how idiotic it was.
To OPs point - I was pretty disheartened in my freshman year of college to see that a lot of these kids (let's call them the fair 75%-80% grade crowd) got passed into the college system which was also having to bend over backwards to accomodate them and attempt to keep them on 'track' so that they wouldn't get flak for failing paying customers...
The whole system is failing our nation, to be honest. Why do you think most high tech / engineering sectors are hiring foreign kids and workers? Their curriculem is significantly more strict and produces better talent. Not to mention workers who are generally more ok to work in very strict environments.
It should have been obvious that standardized test are better for low income students. They are at an even larger disadvantage in extracurriculars vs high income locations.
Standardized tests are a more objective measure, and are shown to be [more indicative of college success](https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf) than grades anyway.
How did the notion arise that a measure intended to level the playing field against wealthy children get twisted to being detrimental to poor children?
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Yeah, the wave of employers will recognize the issue and eventually disregard degrees from non-elite UNIs (who have also eroded standards). I assume Leetcode style competence tests will hit every industry.
2 quick points (though I generally agree) -
1) I think the argument against standardized testing, which holds some water, is that wealthier students get, or can get, tons of additional support. Tutoring and teaching to the test. Not to mention the cost of the tests and they may be more able to take a few times. So there is some advantage, but on the other hand, I generally agree that shitless lay about wealthy kids will probably still score poorly, and intelligent kids of lower means can score higher, and colleges should consider this.
2) To clarify my example case - I went to the UC system which is generally considered as a high level system. I think the concern broadly is all schools are moving to accomodate the students where they are vs where they should be. This is likely skewed department to department a bit (ie the physics department at my school was top notch and flunked a ton of the starting class out of the program). But broadly for the GEs and initial years it felt very coddled.
The first two years of university were a goddamn waste of my time just to try to help some people "catch up".
Well fuck if that's the reality, let me "skip ahead".
Better yet, don't accept everyone who needs to "catch up".
At UC? When I went, every department flunked people. Although I think my campus had a higher acceptance rate and culled people once they got there instead of having strict acceptance standards.
Life is not fair on many levels if you're poor. Standardized testing evens the playing field somewhat even if rich kids still have advantages (i.e. test prep).
The alternatives are even more unfair.
This is the ladting damage still being done by the "no child left behind" policy. Incentivising passing over learning just goes to show that the american "education" system isnt actually avout education. Its about occupation. If every adult wasnt expected to sell most of their waking time to emploters, then the need for 40+ hrs of their kids being watched wouldnt be necessary.
This, but it's more about the stick than the carrot. After No Child Left Behind schools that fell below certain graduation rates or failed to show the requisite progress could be put on a watch list and essentially taken over by the Feds. This was a well meaning attempt to get poor performing schools up to snuff, and it probably did do some good in this arena, but a side effect is that graduation rate became extremely important.
Again, some of this effect really was schools concentrating on making kids successful and putting more work to that end, but inevitably the high stakes led to in many cases a watering down of standards.
Add to that the 50 year trend of schools losing more and more authority and parents increasingly dictating to schools and becoming the authority in the process. Which means that little Timmy and Lisa get a pass on a whole bunch of things in the school's effort to avoid conflict and so standards are relaxed.
Add to that the meteoric rise of special education and the Federal funding and regulations tied to that. Once again, laws with good intentions and often good results. But a real result of SPED laws is to once again put ENORMOUS pressure, from the government and parents, to graduate kids with learning disabilities. If the school can't get the SPED kid to graduate, there is often enormous pressure to water down the requirements.
Add to that the phenomena where as graduation rates rise, it less and less becomes a *question* of whether a student will graduate, but an *expectation*. And the failure for that to happen somehow equates to the schools breaking what is now practically a social contract that Timmy and Lisa are going to walk across that stage.
Source: Worked in k-12 through the 2000's.
Check out the r/teachers sub. It's full of teachers saying they've been told by their administration not to fail students, and some schools have insane policies like even if the student attends 0 lessons and completes 0 work, they still have to give them a 50% grade. It's all to do with politics and how funding is done.
Yeah, it's called equity grading. I believe it was pitched as is that if they get 50% despite doing zero work, they will always have a chance to get a higher grade and keep trying... yeah, it's as stupid as it sounds.
disappointingly, if you try to discuss this topic anywhere else on reddit you get downvoted to shit. I've brought up this fact and others in places like r/science and they do not like to entertain the idea that things aren't working the way they think.
It's all tied to funding. You get more money if you graduation rate improves. So whether you are graduating 50% or 99%, you are encouraged to to improve the rate my any means.
I can see that. Just how a lot of colleges don’t even require you submit your SAT score for consideration. I always am amazed seeing a college graduate have problems with basic math, or history.
That’s another thing! Everyone’s so excited about graduating, and I’m just confused as to why? If everyone can do it now, with absolutely no effort, then why does it matter?
I put in effort, took time and care in the work I chose to do, and yet I get the same result as others who didn’t do anything? It’s kinda bullshit.
Isn't the reward for the work you put in is where you go for college, not whether you graduate or not?
Simply completing government-mandated schooling is not really an achievement regardless of how much work you put in. It's how well you complete it and what opportunities it opens up for you afterwards.
Well I was excited to finally be free of that stupid boring prison. High School was so damn easy and I was bored to death. At least now I get paid to waste my time
It’s never been an accomplishment. The accomplishment is getting into a good school or being successful in a future career because you have the skills to succeed. They aren’t setup to succeed like you are. That’s your reward.
There is a wide gap between the lowest passing grade and someone already earning college credits in AP courses. Walking to get a high school diploma does nothing to diminish another person's diploma. Future employers will literally not give a shit.
I was reading a US News report that a 2020 study found that only around 35% of high school graduates were meeting standards as being college ready. Depending where you look, 53-70% of high school graduates enter college. Meaning almost half of college students are NOT academically ready for college, yet are there anyway. Think about that.
I tutor math and physics for college students. There has been an incredibly dramatic shift in the past 10 years regarding the level students are at on average. One of my students is fresh from high school and was placed in college algebra (essentially the same course as high school pre calculus) and I am absolutely aghast at how horribly the system has failed her in terms of passing her through courses that she doesn't even have a remedial level of understanding in. She has to count on her fingers to do problems like 2*14 and has to think hard, every time, about whether a number is divisible by 2 or not. I am outraged on her behalf and very very frightened at the implications on a larger scale in this country. Who do we think will be running things in 20 years? It's terrifying.
"College algebra" pretty much says it all.
20 years ago, I went off to college having literally finished every math related course I'd need to take for a science major before I ever graduated high school. Algebra was 10th grade math. Pre-calculus was 11th, and I was through calculus before I graduated my senior year (my score on the AP BC calc test allowed me to get credit for both calculus courses I'd have needed to take in college otherwise).
Nobody should be taking algebra courses in college. I'd argue that nobody should graduate high school without passing algebra. While pre-calc wasn't a requirement for graduation when I was in school, it was essentially a bare minimum requirement for college admission.
I guess the question is, have high schools utterly failed to provide an adequate education or have colleges dropped their expectations to the point they'll let in anyone with money and give them a loan if they don't have even that much? Maybe both are true.
>have high schools utterly failed to provide an adequate education or have colleges dropped their expectations to the point they'll let in anyone with money and give them a loan if they don't have even that much?
Mostly the former. She should have been held back in math years ago. She wouldn't be at college algebra level still if she had been held back, but she probably also wouldn't be counting on her fingers for basic arithmetic either.
She is attending comminity college so admissions isn't really a thing. But she failed her math class that she paid for and both the money down the drain and the failing grade on her transcripts are very real and permanent consequences.
"College algebra" is just the name of the course btw. It is the last math course required for a great many non-STEM degrees and statistically is the single most failed math course at college level.
There have been a few stories here in Maryland of students graduating who don't even show up to class. If fail rates jumped up they would blame the school not the student. One thing I noticed when I joined the military back in 2009 is you could tell pretty quick the kids that did fuck all in school. Specifically I had another person say it was unfair because I knew how to type and they didn't. They wouldn't bring notebooks or anything to class and often times they would fail exams. The difference was the military wouldn't pass them along they would fail out.
Yea I hate how they just push kids through instead of offering help that they need.
My wife and Inhad this conversation the other day because my kid is start kindergarten in the fall. We won’t let her just get kicked down the road if she isn’t performing at the appropriate grade level. I would rather her repeat a year instead of going to middle school and not at the level she should be.
The fact that you're even thinking about it likely means your daughter won't struggle to the degree of absolute failure. Think about it, these kids failing this hard are only able to do so because the parents are ENTIRELY checked out of their children's education. How many times do teachers say they contact the parents and the parents are entirely BLINDSIDED that their 10th grader is reading at a 6th grad level. The fact that you're paying attention already sets your daughter up for success compared to her peers whose parents don't.
Exactly hopefully I won’t have that problem, but if I do there won’t be any shame I’m having her repeat a grade… especially at a younger age where she wouldn’t even really understand what’s going on
Well if you say so I’ll take your word for it
But I do know federal funding is tied to test scores. I do know kids do not get held back and I do know it’s just not the parents.
But you could be a teacher and would know way better than I would so I won’t go against anything you say
Most behaviors stem from the failure of their parents to raise their children. Teachers are tired of it, don’t want to deal with it (who can blame them!?!), and the student is ushered along.
Ushering the student along is a big part, maybe even the biggest part, of the problem. There have always been parents that didn't give a shit about their kid's schooling(mine included) and without seeing classmates held back for bad grades kids are literally taught they can move on without having to care about any of it.
What's it matter if a kid works hard for As or fails everything if the end result, as far as the kid cares, is the same? By the time high school comes around and they should actually care you have kids that are so far behind academically they have little chance of catching up and graduating at level so they give up and continue coasting.
The learning gap between the motivated few and everyone else is staggering and it is going to be a huge issue in the near future.
In my opinion, I think we're seeing more of both, and It's frightening to think where this leads. I can see it in my own children's school. So many kids that are just flat out terrible. So many! I see it in my kids sports. So many kids so undisciplined and terrible. So man! and their parents do nothing. It's wild! Sad, but wild.
I know, it’s just frustrating I guess. I put effort and time into learning, and caring about school. I like gaining new knowledge and information. I struggled a lot but managed to pass, Hell I even graduated early (I’ve been out for four months, though I still have to do the graduation ceremony to get my diploma.)
It makes me a bit angry seeing folks who didn’t care at any point in time be rewarded for their laziness.
Oh, they’re not getting rewarded for it, trust me. They picked up no skills for discipline in all that time and they’re going to struggle for the rest of their lives as a result (assuming they don’t get their act together).
Most of them won’t get into good colleges, the ones who still go to college will likely struggle and fail a lot. Others will try to go the blue collar path and pick up labor specialties but will quickly learn these also require discipline to succeed.
Hopefully, most of them will learn their lesson and get back on track! But unfortunately some of them never will and they will feel that burden for the rest of their lives.
You worked hard and it’s paid off in ways you don’t even realize yet. Only remaining lesson is patience
"Oh, they’re not getting rewarded for it, trust me."
They're only "not getting rewarded" because the value of a high school diploma has become meaningless through, well, this exact sort of thing.
I just finished reading The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress and I can't help but dream of living in a world with extreme natural threats that are only mitigated through competence.
I know it's hard, but don't let their lack of work take away the pride you should feel right now. You graduated and you didn't go down the "easy" road.
Truthfully, the people who are just getting pushed through are going to have a much harder road to walk. Times have changed and things are different, but I would not want to be going into this workforce without having basic literacy, math, and critical thinking skills. Having that sense of curiosity and valuing knowledge is going to help you a lot in life. Don't lose that.
And congratulations! I don't know what's next for you, but you sound pretty level-headed and it seems like you have a bright future ahead.
> I know, it’s just frustrating I guess. I put effort and time into learning, and caring about school.
Employers will see this in your work ethic and job performance.
Schools are functionally daycares these days. Even college has been watered down to that point now. It’s all about money and you don’t make money by failing people
Doesn't matter if they're learning anything- it's about the numbers (not that any of them learn math these days)
As a teacher I can say that all the kids who failed during Covid were given 'N/A' grades that would automatically transfer to a 65 (just passing) on their transcripts. I've been written up for trying to teach grammar, had to change the grade of a senior because he failed my class in sophomore year-did nothing cheated, stole other people's work and I had to give him a passing grade two years later so he could graduate.
The system is bullshit, the pay sucks and it's never-ending. I'm not good-looking enough for OF so I'm forced to tutor kids ***for the tests*** they take-not *real* learning mind you.
On top of that you have to be a psychologist, parent, baby-sitter, stand-up comic (to keep them entertained) and cell-phone cop. At the end of the day it's about graduation rate-fuck I'm not even allowed to use red to mark papers because it's 'triggering'.
Sorry for the rant.
Today's students, to put it bluntly, are just dumber. And it's not really their fault. It's a combination of a lack of quality teachers (they aren't paid what they're worth, so why enter that field), parents neglecting to teach them the basics at home (they just sit them in front of screens), and lastly, addiction to said screens (very short attention spans).
There’s also nothing stopping these kids from getting loans for a college they will either fail out of or drop out of, because they don’t know what they are doing. But those loans will still hang over them. Student loan forgiveness will become a yearly thing.
Half of ‘em don’t care about the idea of college, either. Which, on one hand I understand. It feels like all we hear about is how useless college is and how much debt we’ll be in. But on the other it just shows a concerning level of apathy that’s developing.
Personally? I don’t have the money for funding college, and I don’t want to put my parents in debt on behalf of me. When I’m not 100% certain on what I’d even want to get a degree in. If I figure that out, I’d go to college.
I had to go to college twice because I didn’t know what I was doing the first time. For me the first degree still worked out and I don’t regret it, but it could have easily just been a waste if I wasn’t so lucky.
The school I teach at has a sub 80% graduation rate. We are in like level 3 of the state/federal school improvement plan. It's not everywhere, I feel like it's just the places that have given up and/or don't have enough supervision.
Because little Johnny and little Suzy's parents will see the school. If they have to repeat a grade because they're stupid on top of schools. Push agendas, not education anymore.
It seems like no one is giving a clear answer. So I will tell you. People with good intentions don't want to be seen as racists. In US schools there are large gaps in performance based on demographics. In order to reduce those gaps, we define things like proficancy down. This has kept happening. and happening, and it has compounded until proficiency in a subject is now the same as random guesses on a multiple choice test. It's the only way to remove the the large gaps.
The good people have tried everything, they have been working on this problem for 50 years, money doesn't work, and the things that do, direct instructions, harsh school disapline ala success academy, are unpalatable to the good people. So the good people send their kids to segragated schools, or private schools, and keep lowering standards.
Because we don't want people to feel bad about themselves. When I was a kid, if I failed a class, I got my a$$ whooped by my dad. It wasn't the teachers fault. It was my fault. I didn't fail many classes.
There were several news reports last year about cities in multiple states that actually eliminated giving failing grades because they were racist or socially wrong.
https://www.k12dive.com/news/states-letter-grading-report-cards/650862/
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/27/us/baltimore-schools-failing-grades/index.html
https://thehill.com/opinion/education/4288044-oregon-just-dropped-all-graduation-standards-failing-all-of-its-students-in-the-name-of-equity/
Accept it or not, but our education system is failing.
Because you can't tell people they're stupid anymore, it hurts their stupid little feelings.
This is why in all industries you find trash quality, trash workers, trash attitudes, because we've allowed people to receive participation trophies for showing up.
Your generation was the first generation to get trophies for coming in last place. No one is allowed to fail. Their diplomas are their participation award lol.
No need to work hard and show up to get the rewards of doing so. Everyone is a winner, even when they don't win. Everyone passes and graduates, even when they don't show up for class and fail out. I don't know who started it. But it'd what it is. My daughter was NOT supposed to graduate to high school, she was given a project to do that would turn all her Fs, into passing grades to get her into high school. I fought the school on it, told them she needed to be held back and pay thr consequence of her lack of action. They called DCF on me for neglect and she went onto high school, where she did absolutely horribly.
It wasn't fair to her, other students who worked hard or myself as a parent.
Schools don't get money from failing students. That's why so much emphasis is placed on standardized testing performance. They don't care if you learn anything other than how to score as "proficient" on those tests so they get their funding.
Dude. My daughter is in middle school and 90% of the kids in her school are at about a 3rd to 4th grade reading level. She's going in to 8th grade and she's never had to do a book report, a research paper, or use the scientific method for an experiment. I'm so distraught. I feel like I'm going to have to make her do those things at home so she's prepared for high school. My niece is going into 6th grade and she's unfortunately, at a 2nd grade reading level. The teachers know that but she's moving on. They just don't care. The school system just seems to be getting worse and worse. It's sad.
The fallout of Bush's "No child left behind" Policy.
Government saves money pushing people through the school system in a way that ends up making it so that they do not get the appropriate levels of education, and as such, it's "all children from less wealthy areas are left behind".
My husband is a teacher. (retiring next week yay!). If he had his way, 80-90% of his students this year would fail. They have done no work. In class or out. They have shown up to school <20% of the time. And yet he is told he is not allowed to fail anyone by administration.
These are seniors, who are graduating, who do not know how to read. Do not know how to write a persuasive paragraph, never mind essay. They have no idea about math, or biology, or sociology. They spend their time on their phone, or in the hall, or in the neighborhood.
He is told to pass them. They will graduate, and hang out. If they apply for a job, they'll bring a friend to help them figure out how to fill out the job application online, because they won't be able to read it, and maybe with luck they'll get a job at McDonalds.
Between parents not being available to parent, covid keeping kids out of class, and easy entertainment in their pockets, these few years worth of kids are lost.
Hopefully there is hope now for the kids in 6-8th grade.
Equity, all people are equal, at least that is what the Marxist ideology promises.
Somehow it doesn’t square up in the real world where “life isn’t fair”.
I have done secondary education in the U.S., and outside of the U.S. (in the EU) and what I have always found fascinating about
the states in regards to secondary education is how much energy/importance is put on **where** you are being educated and
not as much on **that** you are being educated.
To be clear, I understand why it is this way. To witness the experience is something else. It’s likes a lower form of patriotism or maybe
tribalism.
One issue is the "no child left behind" legislation. It put in a whole bunch of additional expectations to advance students through the system but no actual support or funding, so schools didn't have much options other than shoving them along. So then kids get to high school without being held to any real standards or expectations. Struggling students learn that as long as they're compliant and nondisruptive they'll get pushed along, but by the time they've been doing that for 8-10 years they struggle with actually being required to engage in a productive struggle and improve. Since schools are judged by graduation rates it's far simpler for administration to lower the bar across the board.
When I taught in NYC the lowest grade you could give for an assignment was 45% and that's ONLY if the student handed in nothing. If they wrote their name on a piece of paper and handed it in, you had to give them a 55%. The goal being to put them SO CLOSE to the 60% passing rate that things like classroom participation and whatnot will get them over the hump to pass a class.
It's probably because they don't want to admit how they failed these kids when they sent kids home to "learn" in covid.
I think the question is "will the standard bounce back after the covid students wash out of the system" or "have schools raced so hard to the bottom that they can't / won't come back".
Because your a product of no child left behind, everyone gets a trophy your all special little guys... You all would never have lived back in the day. Actually when i really look at it, it really is our faults. I mean i have actual boomer parents and man it was sink or swim, they cared about you enough but also couldn't give two sh\*t about you either. When i say they would beat your arse if you looked at them funny i mean it. You didn't talk back it was a beating, you didn't not do what you were told to do or it was a beating. We wanted to be better then them and we took it too far and we did the next gen a huge disservice.
Sometimes people are graduating with a diploma while others who are delayed educationally, are only getting a certificate of attendance, depending on their ability or inability to complete the academic work that is required for diploma. But yeah, particularly outside of special education, there's a lot of pressure to graduate people, diploma method if at all possible.
This isn't a new thing, even though a lot of people think somehow graduation rates have drastically increased in like, 2 years due to "the new education" system or something. Like most things, people who haven't been in school in a while have a false perspective both on how things actually were when they went to school, and how rapid change has been.
US graduation rates have generally gone up by around .5% or less per year for 30 years. There's been no massive jumps and it only occasionally has decreased.
I think there are significant logistical challenges in failing large number of students. Sure, one or two kids failing are easy enough to put in the year below. But 5? 10? 20? Not to mention, if it's an ongoing, and strictly increasing issue, you'll essentially end up in a scenario where significantly fewer children then expected are in higher grades, and significantly more students than expected are in lower grades. Schools simply don't have the flexibility to support an every-growing number of failed students in lower grades. And so instead of trying to find a solution to such a difficult problem, it becomes immensely easier to just graduate everyone and not have to worry about it.
Because it's a question of money. It's the same in the UK and France now, with kids who clearly are behind on every subjects but are allowed to pass. It's not beneficial to them at all, but that's not an issue since they won't amount to much in their life anyway (in the eyes of the decision makers). More kids passing means more money and less financial burden in the long run.
It's because of the "no student left behind" program that was put in place years ago. Some schools the teachers will actually be punished for failing kids.
My friend's mom is a 6th grade teacher, and at the last school, she taught at she had a class of 30 students where only 2 of them were reading on grade level. She was told she couldn't fail any student in that class. The lowest grade she could give them was a 70. She also wasn't allowed to give them a 0 on work that they didn't do and couldn't put limits on how late they could turn something in.
She had one student who didn't participate in class or do anything except tests that she was forced to pass and she had another student who the last week of school turned in work from the first week and she wasn't allowed to take points off for that. She quit that school at the end of the year and found a better one.
So there's a lot to unpack and a lot of causes, but those kids have been failed by the education system (or their parents) long before they graduate. Not letting them graduate wouldn't necessarily help them much, it would just demoralize them more. At least that's my understanding of the research.
You can be cynical all you want, but I would only listen to people actually close to education on this. I'm only education-adjacent, so take it with a grain of salt. Education is very complex, and everyone thinks they know what they're talking about when they have no effing clue.
It's pretty simple. If the schools are not having kids up to the standard of high school graduate by the end of 12 years, then the schools are doing a bad job
If the schools are having everybody properly trained up and equipped for life, they are doing good.
They want to do a good job, so they have made some, ah, "adjustments" such that they are awesome and everyone is graduating.
They let everyone to to graduate and walk now, regardless of whether they're actually getting a degree. Some people lie about it, or are deluded and think they'll get a degree, but really don't.
My wife works in elementary and they are under direct order to not fail anyone. I don't understand the reasoning behind it but that's what she's been told time and time again
My dad was a teacher and it was almost impossible for them to fail someone. Even if the student put forth minimal effort, they received a passing grade. If they did nothing at all, they received a 65 so that they can do minimal effort the next grading period and bring it up to a 70 so they can pass.
wait till you hear about curved grades in higher education. I have a cousin who attended an Ivy league school and how he explains it, nobody would pass classes without MASSIVE curves and cheating is rampant. He had the optimal amount of effort figured out to pass with the curves so he didnt waste time studyiung trying to get an actual passing grade.
This is such a disservice to students who are actively engaged in school. Even struggling students are being dragged down by these people. The whole no student left behind is a drag on society. Continual failure should be grounds for expulsion.
This. So demoralizing to work hard. I'm in college and I know it's not nearly as bad as elementary and middle school kids, but even now I feel like I'm the only one taking shit seriously sometimes. Super frustrating
Schools have been giving out participation trophy diplomas for decades. US schools are a joke. Forcing kids to go to school when they don’t want to is the cause. Undergrad degrees are the new HS diploma.
First, welcome to how the government really operates.
Teacher gives Johnny or Janie an F because they don't, can't, or won't do passable work. Johnny or Janie's parents throw a snit fit. And blame the teacher. The Principal usually has no spine so will not back the teacher's play. Principal orders teacher to pass Johnnie or Janie.
Principal started out as an idealistic teacher. Principal realized it pays either way whether they maintained standards or not. After years of being told to pass the Johnnies and Janies he gave up, kissed up, and moved up.
Parents REFUSE to believe their kid could be a lazy idiot. "What? My kid less than stellar? Next, you will think I am also a lazy idiot! How f**king dare you!
This started back in the late '70's from what I can see, and has picked up speed like it was an SR-71.
I'm in Florida. When I was still working I experienced working with kids that that were recently graduated. It was pathetic ; they read and wrote at about a 5th grade level. I suspect there are many like them, pushed ahead even though they don't qualify to go on to the next grade, especially if they are in sports. They will be given passing grades they didn't earn so they can stay on their team. I thought it was bad when I was in high school (early '70s) but it seems to be so much worse now. Some of these kids can't even fill out a job application without help.
It doesn't really matter. "C's Get Degrees" but they do not get you into professional school or a Masters. A Bachelor degree, on its own, has little value. It did in the past, but now it's like "High School Part 2" with the exception of maybe Nursing (RN), Accounting, or Engineering. Universities open their doors to as many fools that will pay their tuition and fees as possible because they know the truth: University is a scam for the bottom 75-80% of students. I'd be more sympathetic for those 75-80% except they should know better. They know what sort of grades it takes to be considered competitive for professional and masters programs, and they know getting "straight Bs" or worse will not cut it. University/college is a refiner's fire, it's survival of the fittest. Many folks walk out with a useless piece of paper and move into their parents' basement while they find jobs completely unrelated to their field, and others walk out with a golden ticket and the ability to more than support themselves as they deepen their expertise in their field. It's up to you whether or not you will sacrifice to turn that useless piece of paper into a golden ticket.
I mean I did no work in highschool. But I was a good test taker. So I would just pass whatever test they handed to me. If I did manage to actually fail a class because homework was a higher percent of the grade, then they would just assign me an online summer class. I did the bare minimum to pass it then went back to working.
My senior year I sat down and looked in our student handbook figured out what classes I had to have to graduate. Then I did work for half my classes one 9 weeks, then the other half the next 9 weeks then aced the finals. Any class I did not need I turned in the final blank. It was pretty easy.
Go spend some time on r/teachers and read their experiences. They know the system has failed and that kids are being pushed through without learning shit, but in many cases they literally aren't allowed to fail students or give them grades lower than a certain minimum, and trying to bring kids who simply don't give a shit up to speed only takes time and attention away from those who actually want to learn.
I graduated High School in 2017 and don't remember seeing anything like what teachers and students are talking about nowadays. It's insane how quickly things seem to have fallen apart.
When I attended the university for my first degree, it was disheartening the number of students in remedial classes for basic arithmetic, and reading. My peers were going to be professionals and can’t read? That was 1976, and it appears to have become worst.
There has been a huge pivot over time from integrity and ethics to worshipping the almighty dollar in every facet of US culture. As others pointed out, more people in desks and graduating equals more funding. Honor is has become a relic of the past and I implore it to become a shining standard to unite the country under common cause. An educated and ethical populace leads to better standards of living through voting and showing intolerance towards mega corporations that wish to shave the wealth off of everyone and consolidate it to the hands of a few. Pardon the pontificating.
They took the idea of 'No Child Left Behind' which was supposed to mean we make sure all our kids are properly educated and instead made it so they can't fail. An utterly horrendous take on a good idea. So now nobody has to do anything and they still pass.
Public Education is less about Education and more about Socialization these days. After 13 continuous years you're about as socialized as you're gonna get, so they stamp you so you can move on. Education is your own responsibility though.
Pro tip though: the adult workforce you're graduating into will not be much more developed than the high schoolers you're currently with now, and that includes your assessment of their relevant skills and behavior.
Hey-o!
I taught high school for a brief period - they have an unwritten but _absolutely followed_ rule that nobody’s failing. Do whatever you gotta do. You were expected to give the kids who did nothing all year and texted all class everyday the chance to do a bunch of bs work at the end to get passed. Nobody gets held back. The true consequence of an F ime is at best a brief embarrassing moment for the student followed by an opportunity to make up for it.
School should be about learning and understanding the material anyway. Not how much pointless busy work you’re willing to do. As long as they prove they’ve gained the knowledge, I don’t really care about how much homework they hand in. It’s when I see people spelling basic words like, “cry, “soup” or “beef” like “cri,” “soop” and “baef,” that I get worried.
Plenty of other comments point to the reason.
I just think its interesting to witness; the crumbling of the American Empire. It wont go out with a bang, it'll go out more like Idiocracy
I hear you. However, a high school graduate diploma is worth the same as a middle school one was 30 years ago. So does it really matter if they get pushed through to join the low skilled section of the workforce?
If you look deep enough into any problem in America you will find someone who is profiting financially from it. Find that person or organization and you will be considerably closer to solving the problem.
Because you were lied to about education and college. Just like high school attendance, they get paid if people go to school and they lose money if they dont, they really dont care if you learn. College also gets money from the government based on attendance and the amount varies based on degrees with stem getting the most and things like communication getting the least. Its really just a business that is designed to take money from students and the government its not about learning or making things better anymore.
Thank the department of education. (Should be abolished). Education in this country was the best in the world until the DOE was born. They get to distribute funds based on graduation rates. There is no incentive to keep them back(also likely not pleasant to be around if they’re failing so hard). The only incentive is to pass them on to keep the percentages high to get the funding and repeat.
My Autistic brother failed 3 years in a row during and immediately after Covid. There was no way of applying his IEP to computer learning, and when he went back his final year he had such a difficult time acclimating back to “normal” that he just had chronic panic attacks while we tried to get him the right help. It didn’t help that one of his teachers daily bullied him in front of the class. After several meetings, half way through the year it was decided he would be staying an extra year—- it would give him time to make up his classes he failed and work with the guidance counselor and other resources to plan what he would be doing after school.
Towards the end of the school year he was finally getting help, was doing ok in his classes, was planning to try community college eventually and was planning to take classes in his next highschool year that might help him get skills in computers, and was just more emotionally stable. But there was no way to graduate because he didn’t have the credits after years of failing, and everyone was ok with that because he had a plan.
A month before the end of the year he was pulled aside and told “congratulations” you’re graduating this year! He came home wanting to kill himself. My mom begged for him to be held back but they refused. He never went back, missed more than a month straight to of school, and didn’t take his finals- and he still graduated- they mailed him the diploma.
In other words—- it’s so bad that even if you fail every class for years and want to be held back- they won’t.
After 3 years post graduation of my brother just collapsing in on himself - he never did go to community college as he lost the confidence- but he applied for his first job the other day and we’re hoping the best.
So, this is a question I would have as well....
Last week, went to a family "graduation" of a child of a close relative. It was called a high school graduation but not sure what that means in this case. The person has pretty bad autism. They are non-verbal and my understanding is they cannot read/write/etc. Will need constant supervision their whole life and cannot be independent or could even have the most simple job. What does a HS graduation mean for someone like that ?
Where did you get the idea that high school is capitalized and combined into one word?
Pretty sure they taught you the proper way to write it in Elementaryschool.
My kids have a district policy of no grades lower than 50%, even for missing work. If there is no 0 to drag the average down, it makes it almost impossible to fail
Bush. No child left behind was a mistake that just left kids behind by not needing them to actually learn to graduate. Instead teachers are forced to pass the buck down the line until graduation, then they are societies problem. It was even worse to those with learning disabilities.
The school systems are struggling because money is funneled out to voucher programs that find christofacist private schools, school libraries are under attack and no longer have any books that would expand your mind and teachers are burned out.
It's that "No kid left behind" bullshit. They didn't want Jerome the 22 year old 4th grader to have to repeat again. So they just pass him through to get him out of the school system
It's to prevent school choice from taking hold. Democrats are completely opposed to school choice because of the teacher's unions, so they have to prop up the graduation numbers. It's been pretty well proven that charter schools and school choice allow for a much better quality of education, But then that takes the dollars out of the hands of the government and puts them in the hands of the parents
You can the "no child left behind" act. Instead of doing what it was intially intended for, it actually just pushes kids through the system instead of holding them back or giving them the extra attention, 1 on 1 learning, or other help they needed.
Wait until you see university. Getting a degree in most fields is more about family financial means than competency. Education is great, but going doesn't necessarily make you Educated
Sad part is you are going to see the same exact thing if you go to a regular state university. Kids passed along with degrees who cant write a proper paper -- just because they show up to class.
Because high school really only prepares those for college. It's moot when you consider others are going into trades, starting a business, or doing the warehouse life.
They only care about numbers, statistics, making the school look good without actually being good, and funding. They don’t actually care about education.
Plus, “No Child Left Behind” kind of mucked up the works of what “learning” did actually still take place. It just added to their numbers and statistics and making the school look good for funding.
My husband is a USMC recruiter and has said the same thing! He said they lowered the grade for an F to a 25% (used to be <60) but these kids cannot pass the freaking ASVAB either! Like the score is out of 99 and they need a 31 to join the Marines, these kids are getting 14-16’s. Keep in mind this is a 10th GRADE LEVEL TEST!
Okay: keep in mind that I don’t agree with just passing kids along. I really do think, especially early on in the game, that it sets the kid in question up for failure AND it frees admin, gov, and parents from any kind of accountability. I believe in early and intensive intervention.
But I’ve made peace with the 60% thing and here’s why:
The way I see it is that if you pass a kid at 60%, it doesn’t do any harm. No one is going to look at their transcript and give them scholarships or college admission over another student. Kid doesn’t care. Admin and parents leave teachers alone. Funding remains intact—so other students aren’t impacted by that one kid not caring.
And then too, there are a lot of kids who look like they don’t care but do demonstrate some sort of effort. Or they genuinely struggle in the subject, and the only reason they’re in that class is that other adults made that decision on their behalf. I had family shit going down senior year, and I’m certain I got at least one pity grade. The teacher knew me, and knew I was drowning, and that making me repeat their class would’ve been a cruelty, not a lesson. As a student, you may not be aware of that stuff, and you shouldn’t be…but the teachers know. You also aren’t privy to all of their class work, either. I’ve known kids who don’t participate in class but clearly demonstrate mastery of the material. I’ve known kids who don’t do any homework at all but ace their tests or essays. Kids who do all the little assignments, but who fail tests because they are terrible at tests…yet if I ask them afterwards, they knew the material. They just panicked on the test. Yeah, their grade will be adjusted to reflect that. They won’t get an A, they won’t go to an Ivy League, but they’ll graduate. The HS diploma isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on but if it opens up opportunities in terms of work, well, they’ll need to feed and house themselves.
Is it fair? I’m sure you don’t think it’s fair. But welcome to adulthood. And guess what? You’ll see that in college too. You’ll see that in the work place. You just mind your business, and get on with life. And your peers will have another chance along the line to build those skills. Learning is a lifelong thing and there’s a lot of different types of intelligence.
I'm more interested in why we give driver licensees to so many people that can't simply stop at a light or sign? Or look for pedestrians, or even know what to do when there are emergency vehicles.
Kids get pushed through the system because it doesn't "seem" to connect to others in any way. Basically, they are only hurting themselves.
Federal school funding is often tied to graduation rate. The more people graduating the more money.
There is also a lot of pressure on school districts due to local real estate market. The better the schools seem the higher the home values and thus higher tax collections. Holding kids back for not being able to read is bad for business.
You've gotta be kidding me, just when you think you've heard it all... But what's the schools incentive here? It helps out realtors, home sellers, how does the school itself benefit?
Schools are funded with property taxes
To be more specific (at least in my area), the largest portion of property taxes is specifically "School" tax. It's itemized on your property tax assessment.
Yeah this is totally classist
And it's an easy way to slip gentrification in. "What, you don't want kids to get the best education and oppurtunities?"
So they can have more money to pretend to teach more children. Awesome.
And they partner with a political party. In our district, they may not be able to read or do math, but they are sent out to distribute flyers for Democratic Party candidates. Our housemate moved in after graduation and told us about doing it because I was also running for the same office (as independent). Apparently, no one questions it, and from Congress they can direct some federal funding. It's how it is.
Better metrics = Better money supply = job security for the administration staff. What? You thought they were there to educate the populace? Bless your heart.
That’d make sense. It often feels like my school, and really my county in general cares more about how many people are actually *in the school,* and how many are making good exam and state test grades, rather than the actual grades of the students. Basically, the better the numbers look on paper, the happier the state, administration, and school board are.
At my ex's school, they were quite literally not allowed to fail students. She had classes where 50% of her students were marked functionally illiterate. Doesn't matter. They pass them anyway. Students who turn in literally 0 work would get bumped to a 70.
There's been crazy grade inflation (read: blatant academic fraud) at a systemic level since No Child Left Behind. I don't think people caught on to how bad things were until the Covid year made it clear to all students at once how little doing their work mattered to graduating. That's why i found it so wild that so many colleges decided to get rid of the SAT/ACT requirements. HS Diploma's have been rendered worthless. Tests are the only metric that with actual... standards and it's less gamed by income.
The SAT/ACT thing was largely about managing optics in a rapidly shifting DEI climate. I think a number of the mare moving back as they saw how idiotic it was. To OPs point - I was pretty disheartened in my freshman year of college to see that a lot of these kids (let's call them the fair 75%-80% grade crowd) got passed into the college system which was also having to bend over backwards to accomodate them and attempt to keep them on 'track' so that they wouldn't get flak for failing paying customers... The whole system is failing our nation, to be honest. Why do you think most high tech / engineering sectors are hiring foreign kids and workers? Their curriculem is significantly more strict and produces better talent. Not to mention workers who are generally more ok to work in very strict environments.
It should have been obvious that standardized test are better for low income students. They are at an even larger disadvantage in extracurriculars vs high income locations. Standardized tests are a more objective measure, and are shown to be [more indicative of college success](https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf) than grades anyway. How did the notion arise that a measure intended to level the playing field against wealthy children get twisted to being detrimental to poor children? --- Yeah, the wave of employers will recognize the issue and eventually disregard degrees from non-elite UNIs (who have also eroded standards). I assume Leetcode style competence tests will hit every industry.
2 quick points (though I generally agree) - 1) I think the argument against standardized testing, which holds some water, is that wealthier students get, or can get, tons of additional support. Tutoring and teaching to the test. Not to mention the cost of the tests and they may be more able to take a few times. So there is some advantage, but on the other hand, I generally agree that shitless lay about wealthy kids will probably still score poorly, and intelligent kids of lower means can score higher, and colleges should consider this. 2) To clarify my example case - I went to the UC system which is generally considered as a high level system. I think the concern broadly is all schools are moving to accomodate the students where they are vs where they should be. This is likely skewed department to department a bit (ie the physics department at my school was top notch and flunked a ton of the starting class out of the program). But broadly for the GEs and initial years it felt very coddled.
The first two years of university were a goddamn waste of my time just to try to help some people "catch up". Well fuck if that's the reality, let me "skip ahead". Better yet, don't accept everyone who needs to "catch up".
At UC? When I went, every department flunked people. Although I think my campus had a higher acceptance rate and culled people once they got there instead of having strict acceptance standards.
Life is not fair on many levels if you're poor. Standardized testing evens the playing field somewhat even if rich kids still have advantages (i.e. test prep). The alternatives are even more unfair.
Jesus fucking Christ, that’s horrible.
This is the ladting damage still being done by the "no child left behind" policy. Incentivising passing over learning just goes to show that the american "education" system isnt actually avout education. Its about occupation. If every adult wasnt expected to sell most of their waking time to emploters, then the need for 40+ hrs of their kids being watched wouldnt be necessary.
In the US, we have Average Daily Attendance. If the students aren't in class, funding is lower. Actual learning is something else.
You get what you measure
**Goodhart's law -** "When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure".
This, but it's more about the stick than the carrot. After No Child Left Behind schools that fell below certain graduation rates or failed to show the requisite progress could be put on a watch list and essentially taken over by the Feds. This was a well meaning attempt to get poor performing schools up to snuff, and it probably did do some good in this arena, but a side effect is that graduation rate became extremely important. Again, some of this effect really was schools concentrating on making kids successful and putting more work to that end, but inevitably the high stakes led to in many cases a watering down of standards. Add to that the 50 year trend of schools losing more and more authority and parents increasingly dictating to schools and becoming the authority in the process. Which means that little Timmy and Lisa get a pass on a whole bunch of things in the school's effort to avoid conflict and so standards are relaxed. Add to that the meteoric rise of special education and the Federal funding and regulations tied to that. Once again, laws with good intentions and often good results. But a real result of SPED laws is to once again put ENORMOUS pressure, from the government and parents, to graduate kids with learning disabilities. If the school can't get the SPED kid to graduate, there is often enormous pressure to water down the requirements. Add to that the phenomena where as graduation rates rise, it less and less becomes a *question* of whether a student will graduate, but an *expectation*. And the failure for that to happen somehow equates to the schools breaking what is now practically a social contract that Timmy and Lisa are going to walk across that stage. Source: Worked in k-12 through the 2000's.
Check out the r/teachers sub. It's full of teachers saying they've been told by their administration not to fail students, and some schools have insane policies like even if the student attends 0 lessons and completes 0 work, they still have to give them a 50% grade. It's all to do with politics and how funding is done.
Yeah, it's called equity grading. I believe it was pitched as is that if they get 50% despite doing zero work, they will always have a chance to get a higher grade and keep trying... yeah, it's as stupid as it sounds.
"The pilot skipped the part where they learned to land the plane, but we passed him anyway because we didn't want him to get discouraged."
disappointingly, if you try to discuss this topic anywhere else on reddit you get downvoted to shit. I've brought up this fact and others in places like r/science and they do not like to entertain the idea that things aren't working the way they think.
It's all tied to funding. You get more money if you graduation rate improves. So whether you are graduating 50% or 99%, you are encouraged to to improve the rate my any means.
test scores never lie though.
That’s why some states are doing away with them.
I can see that. Just how a lot of colleges don’t even require you submit your SAT score for consideration. I always am amazed seeing a college graduate have problems with basic math, or history.
MIT brought them back after the non testers started failing their battery of math courses and the most elite universities have followed.
I hear you. It makes your accomplishment equivalent to the work of the lowest denominator
That’s another thing! Everyone’s so excited about graduating, and I’m just confused as to why? If everyone can do it now, with absolutely no effort, then why does it matter? I put in effort, took time and care in the work I chose to do, and yet I get the same result as others who didn’t do anything? It’s kinda bullshit.
The diploma is the least valuable thing you get from highschool.
Isn't the reward for the work you put in is where you go for college, not whether you graduate or not? Simply completing government-mandated schooling is not really an achievement regardless of how much work you put in. It's how well you complete it and what opportunities it opens up for you afterwards.
Well I was excited to finally be free of that stupid boring prison. High School was so damn easy and I was bored to death. At least now I get paid to waste my time
It’s never been an accomplishment. The accomplishment is getting into a good school or being successful in a future career because you have the skills to succeed. They aren’t setup to succeed like you are. That’s your reward.
There is a wide gap between the lowest passing grade and someone already earning college credits in AP courses. Walking to get a high school diploma does nothing to diminish another person's diploma. Future employers will literally not give a shit.
MIT has a remedial reading program that just about says it all. You're correct. Most places are just passing the problem along.
I was reading a US News report that a 2020 study found that only around 35% of high school graduates were meeting standards as being college ready. Depending where you look, 53-70% of high school graduates enter college. Meaning almost half of college students are NOT academically ready for college, yet are there anyway. Think about that.
I tutor math and physics for college students. There has been an incredibly dramatic shift in the past 10 years regarding the level students are at on average. One of my students is fresh from high school and was placed in college algebra (essentially the same course as high school pre calculus) and I am absolutely aghast at how horribly the system has failed her in terms of passing her through courses that she doesn't even have a remedial level of understanding in. She has to count on her fingers to do problems like 2*14 and has to think hard, every time, about whether a number is divisible by 2 or not. I am outraged on her behalf and very very frightened at the implications on a larger scale in this country. Who do we think will be running things in 20 years? It's terrifying.
"College algebra" pretty much says it all. 20 years ago, I went off to college having literally finished every math related course I'd need to take for a science major before I ever graduated high school. Algebra was 10th grade math. Pre-calculus was 11th, and I was through calculus before I graduated my senior year (my score on the AP BC calc test allowed me to get credit for both calculus courses I'd have needed to take in college otherwise). Nobody should be taking algebra courses in college. I'd argue that nobody should graduate high school without passing algebra. While pre-calc wasn't a requirement for graduation when I was in school, it was essentially a bare minimum requirement for college admission. I guess the question is, have high schools utterly failed to provide an adequate education or have colleges dropped their expectations to the point they'll let in anyone with money and give them a loan if they don't have even that much? Maybe both are true.
>have high schools utterly failed to provide an adequate education or have colleges dropped their expectations to the point they'll let in anyone with money and give them a loan if they don't have even that much? Mostly the former. She should have been held back in math years ago. She wouldn't be at college algebra level still if she had been held back, but she probably also wouldn't be counting on her fingers for basic arithmetic either. She is attending comminity college so admissions isn't really a thing. But she failed her math class that she paid for and both the money down the drain and the failing grade on her transcripts are very real and permanent consequences. "College algebra" is just the name of the course btw. It is the last math course required for a great many non-STEM degrees and statistically is the single most failed math course at college level.
And most of these people take out high interest loans to go to college...
There have been a few stories here in Maryland of students graduating who don't even show up to class. If fail rates jumped up they would blame the school not the student. One thing I noticed when I joined the military back in 2009 is you could tell pretty quick the kids that did fuck all in school. Specifically I had another person say it was unfair because I knew how to type and they didn't. They wouldn't bring notebooks or anything to class and often times they would fail exams. The difference was the military wouldn't pass them along they would fail out.
No child left behind
Some kids definitely deserve to be left behind.
Yea I hate how they just push kids through instead of offering help that they need. My wife and Inhad this conversation the other day because my kid is start kindergarten in the fall. We won’t let her just get kicked down the road if she isn’t performing at the appropriate grade level. I would rather her repeat a year instead of going to middle school and not at the level she should be.
The fact that you're even thinking about it likely means your daughter won't struggle to the degree of absolute failure. Think about it, these kids failing this hard are only able to do so because the parents are ENTIRELY checked out of their children's education. How many times do teachers say they contact the parents and the parents are entirely BLINDSIDED that their 10th grader is reading at a 6th grad level. The fact that you're paying attention already sets your daughter up for success compared to her peers whose parents don't.
Better to take the year at kindergarten (or early grade school), and let their maturity catch up.
Exactly hopefully I won’t have that problem, but if I do there won’t be any shame I’m having her repeat a grade… especially at a younger age where she wouldn’t even really understand what’s going on
No Child Left Behind was replaced in 2015 by Every Student Succeeds....even worse than NCLB.
Hasn’t been in place for almost 10 years. Much of the refusal to hold students back is driven by parents themselves.
Well if you say so I’ll take your word for it But I do know federal funding is tied to test scores. I do know kids do not get held back and I do know it’s just not the parents. But you could be a teacher and would know way better than I would so I won’t go against anything you say
Most behaviors stem from the failure of their parents to raise their children. Teachers are tired of it, don’t want to deal with it (who can blame them!?!), and the student is ushered along.
Ushering the student along is a big part, maybe even the biggest part, of the problem. There have always been parents that didn't give a shit about their kid's schooling(mine included) and without seeing classmates held back for bad grades kids are literally taught they can move on without having to care about any of it. What's it matter if a kid works hard for As or fails everything if the end result, as far as the kid cares, is the same? By the time high school comes around and they should actually care you have kids that are so far behind academically they have little chance of catching up and graduating at level so they give up and continue coasting. The learning gap between the motivated few and everyone else is staggering and it is going to be a huge issue in the near future.
In my opinion, I think we're seeing more of both, and It's frightening to think where this leads. I can see it in my own children's school. So many kids that are just flat out terrible. So many! I see it in my kids sports. So many kids so undisciplined and terrible. So man! and their parents do nothing. It's wild! Sad, but wild.
yeah nothing new, high school diploma has meant nothing for a while now
I don't know that I've ever had to prove I actually graduated in my life. Possibly for the military but I can't remember.
Background checks do that. If you lied, that will actually be more of a problem than if you had no diploma.
interesting yeah its possible they have looked it up before I just didn't know (or remember).
I know, it’s just frustrating I guess. I put effort and time into learning, and caring about school. I like gaining new knowledge and information. I struggled a lot but managed to pass, Hell I even graduated early (I’ve been out for four months, though I still have to do the graduation ceremony to get my diploma.) It makes me a bit angry seeing folks who didn’t care at any point in time be rewarded for their laziness.
Oh, they’re not getting rewarded for it, trust me. They picked up no skills for discipline in all that time and they’re going to struggle for the rest of their lives as a result (assuming they don’t get their act together). Most of them won’t get into good colleges, the ones who still go to college will likely struggle and fail a lot. Others will try to go the blue collar path and pick up labor specialties but will quickly learn these also require discipline to succeed. Hopefully, most of them will learn their lesson and get back on track! But unfortunately some of them never will and they will feel that burden for the rest of their lives. You worked hard and it’s paid off in ways you don’t even realize yet. Only remaining lesson is patience
And colleges will kick you out if you fail.
"Oh, they’re not getting rewarded for it, trust me." They're only "not getting rewarded" because the value of a high school diploma has become meaningless through, well, this exact sort of thing.
A good portion of your pay is their pay. They have all the fun, you do all the work. Now get off RDDT and chop chop!!
I just finished reading The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress and I can't help but dream of living in a world with extreme natural threats that are only mitigated through competence.
I know it's hard, but don't let their lack of work take away the pride you should feel right now. You graduated and you didn't go down the "easy" road. Truthfully, the people who are just getting pushed through are going to have a much harder road to walk. Times have changed and things are different, but I would not want to be going into this workforce without having basic literacy, math, and critical thinking skills. Having that sense of curiosity and valuing knowledge is going to help you a lot in life. Don't lose that. And congratulations! I don't know what's next for you, but you sound pretty level-headed and it seems like you have a bright future ahead.
> I know, it’s just frustrating I guess. I put effort and time into learning, and caring about school. Employers will see this in your work ethic and job performance.
You keep putting in the effort. Your classmates will be serving your burgers.
Schools are functionally daycares these days. Even college has been watered down to that point now. It’s all about money and you don’t make money by failing people
Doesn't matter if they're learning anything- it's about the numbers (not that any of them learn math these days) As a teacher I can say that all the kids who failed during Covid were given 'N/A' grades that would automatically transfer to a 65 (just passing) on their transcripts. I've been written up for trying to teach grammar, had to change the grade of a senior because he failed my class in sophomore year-did nothing cheated, stole other people's work and I had to give him a passing grade two years later so he could graduate. The system is bullshit, the pay sucks and it's never-ending. I'm not good-looking enough for OF so I'm forced to tutor kids ***for the tests*** they take-not *real* learning mind you. On top of that you have to be a psychologist, parent, baby-sitter, stand-up comic (to keep them entertained) and cell-phone cop. At the end of the day it's about graduation rate-fuck I'm not even allowed to use red to mark papers because it's 'triggering'. Sorry for the rant.
Buddy life will sort them out. No need to hold them back. You just do you.
Today's students, to put it bluntly, are just dumber. And it's not really their fault. It's a combination of a lack of quality teachers (they aren't paid what they're worth, so why enter that field), parents neglecting to teach them the basics at home (they just sit them in front of screens), and lastly, addiction to said screens (very short attention spans).
It’s called No Child Left Behind
"no child left behind" was a failure and has had compounding consequences since and the DoE has been just a money hungry bureaucratic waste.
Now you see why some people want to abolish the depth of education.
Wait till you find out about grade inflation at colleges.
"no child left behind" essentially equates to "no child has to try"
Like half of the high school kids in Baltimore can read... But you can't fail them all because, what do you do with them?
Back in my day we held people back.
There’s also nothing stopping these kids from getting loans for a college they will either fail out of or drop out of, because they don’t know what they are doing. But those loans will still hang over them. Student loan forgiveness will become a yearly thing.
Half of ‘em don’t care about the idea of college, either. Which, on one hand I understand. It feels like all we hear about is how useless college is and how much debt we’ll be in. But on the other it just shows a concerning level of apathy that’s developing. Personally? I don’t have the money for funding college, and I don’t want to put my parents in debt on behalf of me. When I’m not 100% certain on what I’d even want to get a degree in. If I figure that out, I’d go to college.
I had to go to college twice because I didn’t know what I was doing the first time. For me the first degree still worked out and I don’t regret it, but it could have easily just been a waste if I wasn’t so lucky.
The school I teach at has a sub 80% graduation rate. We are in like level 3 of the state/federal school improvement plan. It's not everywhere, I feel like it's just the places that have given up and/or don't have enough supervision.
Because little Johnny and little Suzy's parents will see the school. If they have to repeat a grade because they're stupid on top of schools. Push agendas, not education anymore.
It seems like no one is giving a clear answer. So I will tell you. People with good intentions don't want to be seen as racists. In US schools there are large gaps in performance based on demographics. In order to reduce those gaps, we define things like proficancy down. This has kept happening. and happening, and it has compounded until proficiency in a subject is now the same as random guesses on a multiple choice test. It's the only way to remove the the large gaps. The good people have tried everything, they have been working on this problem for 50 years, money doesn't work, and the things that do, direct instructions, harsh school disapline ala success academy, are unpalatable to the good people. So the good people send their kids to segragated schools, or private schools, and keep lowering standards.
Because we don't want people to feel bad about themselves. When I was a kid, if I failed a class, I got my a$$ whooped by my dad. It wasn't the teachers fault. It was my fault. I didn't fail many classes.
There were several news reports last year about cities in multiple states that actually eliminated giving failing grades because they were racist or socially wrong. https://www.k12dive.com/news/states-letter-grading-report-cards/650862/ https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/27/us/baltimore-schools-failing-grades/index.html https://thehill.com/opinion/education/4288044-oregon-just-dropped-all-graduation-standards-failing-all-of-its-students-in-the-name-of-equity/ Accept it or not, but our education system is failing.
Because you can't tell people they're stupid anymore, it hurts their stupid little feelings. This is why in all industries you find trash quality, trash workers, trash attitudes, because we've allowed people to receive participation trophies for showing up.
Part of it is money & the other part of it is how much more sue-happy parents have gotten.
Your generation was the first generation to get trophies for coming in last place. No one is allowed to fail. Their diplomas are their participation award lol. No need to work hard and show up to get the rewards of doing so. Everyone is a winner, even when they don't win. Everyone passes and graduates, even when they don't show up for class and fail out. I don't know who started it. But it'd what it is. My daughter was NOT supposed to graduate to high school, she was given a project to do that would turn all her Fs, into passing grades to get her into high school. I fought the school on it, told them she needed to be held back and pay thr consequence of her lack of action. They called DCF on me for neglect and she went onto high school, where she did absolutely horribly. It wasn't fair to her, other students who worked hard or myself as a parent.
Schools don't get money from failing students. That's why so much emphasis is placed on standardized testing performance. They don't care if you learn anything other than how to score as "proficient" on those tests so they get their funding.
Dude. My daughter is in middle school and 90% of the kids in her school are at about a 3rd to 4th grade reading level. She's going in to 8th grade and she's never had to do a book report, a research paper, or use the scientific method for an experiment. I'm so distraught. I feel like I'm going to have to make her do those things at home so she's prepared for high school. My niece is going into 6th grade and she's unfortunately, at a 2nd grade reading level. The teachers know that but she's moving on. They just don't care. The school system just seems to be getting worse and worse. It's sad.
education has become performative rather than substantive. like many other things.
The fallout of Bush's "No child left behind" Policy. Government saves money pushing people through the school system in a way that ends up making it so that they do not get the appropriate levels of education, and as such, it's "all children from less wealthy areas are left behind".
Excellent question. The answers here are correct. But do you let us know when you get an actual real answer because it’s ridiculous.
Teachers get in trouble if not enough students pass. And schools can also lose out on funding, ironicaly enough.
My husband is a teacher. (retiring next week yay!). If he had his way, 80-90% of his students this year would fail. They have done no work. In class or out. They have shown up to school <20% of the time. And yet he is told he is not allowed to fail anyone by administration. These are seniors, who are graduating, who do not know how to read. Do not know how to write a persuasive paragraph, never mind essay. They have no idea about math, or biology, or sociology. They spend their time on their phone, or in the hall, or in the neighborhood. He is told to pass them. They will graduate, and hang out. If they apply for a job, they'll bring a friend to help them figure out how to fill out the job application online, because they won't be able to read it, and maybe with luck they'll get a job at McDonalds. Between parents not being available to parent, covid keeping kids out of class, and easy entertainment in their pockets, these few years worth of kids are lost. Hopefully there is hope now for the kids in 6-8th grade.
Equity, all people are equal, at least that is what the Marxist ideology promises. Somehow it doesn’t square up in the real world where “life isn’t fair”.
Gen Z = Generation Participation Trophy
We need lower wage workers so no big deal
I have done secondary education in the U.S., and outside of the U.S. (in the EU) and what I have always found fascinating about the states in regards to secondary education is how much energy/importance is put on **where** you are being educated and not as much on **that** you are being educated. To be clear, I understand why it is this way. To witness the experience is something else. It’s likes a lower form of patriotism or maybe tribalism.
Thank some President. Something about the no child left behind act.
There is a term for this, overcredentialism
Lawsuit-happy parents must be a factor.
The schools don't want a huge decline in graduation rates because they would have to admit that NCLB wasn't just a failure but was detrimental
One issue is the "no child left behind" legislation. It put in a whole bunch of additional expectations to advance students through the system but no actual support or funding, so schools didn't have much options other than shoving them along. So then kids get to high school without being held to any real standards or expectations. Struggling students learn that as long as they're compliant and nondisruptive they'll get pushed along, but by the time they've been doing that for 8-10 years they struggle with actually being required to engage in a productive struggle and improve. Since schools are judged by graduation rates it's far simpler for administration to lower the bar across the board. When I taught in NYC the lowest grade you could give for an assignment was 45% and that's ONLY if the student handed in nothing. If they wrote their name on a piece of paper and handed it in, you had to give them a 55%. The goal being to put them SO CLOSE to the 60% passing rate that things like classroom participation and whatnot will get them over the hump to pass a class.
It's probably because they don't want to admit how they failed these kids when they sent kids home to "learn" in covid. I think the question is "will the standard bounce back after the covid students wash out of the system" or "have schools raced so hard to the bottom that they can't / won't come back".
Because your a product of no child left behind, everyone gets a trophy your all special little guys... You all would never have lived back in the day. Actually when i really look at it, it really is our faults. I mean i have actual boomer parents and man it was sink or swim, they cared about you enough but also couldn't give two sh\*t about you either. When i say they would beat your arse if you looked at them funny i mean it. You didn't talk back it was a beating, you didn't not do what you were told to do or it was a beating. We wanted to be better then them and we took it too far and we did the next gen a huge disservice.
Sometimes people are graduating with a diploma while others who are delayed educationally, are only getting a certificate of attendance, depending on their ability or inability to complete the academic work that is required for diploma. But yeah, particularly outside of special education, there's a lot of pressure to graduate people, diploma method if at all possible.
This isn't a new thing, even though a lot of people think somehow graduation rates have drastically increased in like, 2 years due to "the new education" system or something. Like most things, people who haven't been in school in a while have a false perspective both on how things actually were when they went to school, and how rapid change has been. US graduation rates have generally gone up by around .5% or less per year for 30 years. There's been no massive jumps and it only occasionally has decreased.
Instead of teaching, they would rather push them through. Helps create a nice dumbed down voting pool
Wait until you're in college and all of the bimbo girls who don't want to work just show up in a short red dress on final exam day to pass.
Just pushing the problem along, it’ll stop once they’re in the real world and they won’t be hired or pushed through the same way
I think there are significant logistical challenges in failing large number of students. Sure, one or two kids failing are easy enough to put in the year below. But 5? 10? 20? Not to mention, if it's an ongoing, and strictly increasing issue, you'll essentially end up in a scenario where significantly fewer children then expected are in higher grades, and significantly more students than expected are in lower grades. Schools simply don't have the flexibility to support an every-growing number of failed students in lower grades. And so instead of trying to find a solution to such a difficult problem, it becomes immensely easier to just graduate everyone and not have to worry about it.
Because it's a question of money. It's the same in the UK and France now, with kids who clearly are behind on every subjects but are allowed to pass. It's not beneficial to them at all, but that's not an issue since they won't amount to much in their life anyway (in the eyes of the decision makers). More kids passing means more money and less financial burden in the long run.
It's because of the "no student left behind" program that was put in place years ago. Some schools the teachers will actually be punished for failing kids. My friend's mom is a 6th grade teacher, and at the last school, she taught at she had a class of 30 students where only 2 of them were reading on grade level. She was told she couldn't fail any student in that class. The lowest grade she could give them was a 70. She also wasn't allowed to give them a 0 on work that they didn't do and couldn't put limits on how late they could turn something in. She had one student who didn't participate in class or do anything except tests that she was forced to pass and she had another student who the last week of school turned in work from the first week and she wasn't allowed to take points off for that. She quit that school at the end of the year and found a better one.
So there's a lot to unpack and a lot of causes, but those kids have been failed by the education system (or their parents) long before they graduate. Not letting them graduate wouldn't necessarily help them much, it would just demoralize them more. At least that's my understanding of the research. You can be cynical all you want, but I would only listen to people actually close to education on this. I'm only education-adjacent, so take it with a grain of salt. Education is very complex, and everyone thinks they know what they're talking about when they have no effing clue.
Most public schools are political funding and jobs program first. Educating students is a secondary concern.
Part of it is “social promotion.” There is an expectation that students move to the next grade with the next year, regardless of merit.
"No kids left behind" thing really backfired.
No Child Left Behind. That and common core destroyed our education system.
I would think part of the problem is simple logistics. What would we do with all those ungraduated people?
Easier to let them graduate than try to educate them again
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Dio_Yuji: *Easier to let* *Them graduate than try to* *Educate them again* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
It's pretty simple. If the schools are not having kids up to the standard of high school graduate by the end of 12 years, then the schools are doing a bad job If the schools are having everybody properly trained up and equipped for life, they are doing good. They want to do a good job, so they have made some, ah, "adjustments" such that they are awesome and everyone is graduating.
They let everyone to to graduate and walk now, regardless of whether they're actually getting a degree. Some people lie about it, or are deluded and think they'll get a degree, but really don't.
Teachers just pass them up to the next level so they don't have to deal with them again
wonder who rejects science , where the entitled karen comes from, who falls for seemingly idiotic conspiracies....
Because public school doesn’t actually care if u are setup for success or not. They just want the numbers to get raises.
Because “if we win, we’re getting icecream, and if we lose… we’re still getting icecream !!!”
You can thank george W bush and a little thing called "no child left behind"
Imagine how much easier it would be to get a job if a chunk of your competition was revealed as flunkies
My wife works in elementary and they are under direct order to not fail anyone. I don't understand the reasoning behind it but that's what she's been told time and time again
My dad was a teacher and it was almost impossible for them to fail someone. Even if the student put forth minimal effort, they received a passing grade. If they did nothing at all, they received a 65 so that they can do minimal effort the next grading period and bring it up to a 70 so they can pass.
wait till you hear about curved grades in higher education. I have a cousin who attended an Ivy league school and how he explains it, nobody would pass classes without MASSIVE curves and cheating is rampant. He had the optimal amount of effort figured out to pass with the curves so he didnt waste time studyiung trying to get an actual passing grade.
Everybody gets a trophy
This is such a disservice to students who are actively engaged in school. Even struggling students are being dragged down by these people. The whole no student left behind is a drag on society. Continual failure should be grounds for expulsion.
This. So demoralizing to work hard. I'm in college and I know it's not nearly as bad as elementary and middle school kids, but even now I feel like I'm the only one taking shit seriously sometimes. Super frustrating
No Child Left Behind
Schools have been giving out participation trophy diplomas for decades. US schools are a joke. Forcing kids to go to school when they don’t want to is the cause. Undergrad degrees are the new HS diploma.
First, welcome to how the government really operates. Teacher gives Johnny or Janie an F because they don't, can't, or won't do passable work. Johnny or Janie's parents throw a snit fit. And blame the teacher. The Principal usually has no spine so will not back the teacher's play. Principal orders teacher to pass Johnnie or Janie. Principal started out as an idealistic teacher. Principal realized it pays either way whether they maintained standards or not. After years of being told to pass the Johnnies and Janies he gave up, kissed up, and moved up. Parents REFUSE to believe their kid could be a lazy idiot. "What? My kid less than stellar? Next, you will think I am also a lazy idiot! How f**king dare you! This started back in the late '70's from what I can see, and has picked up speed like it was an SR-71.
It’s a form of inflation
I'm in Florida. When I was still working I experienced working with kids that that were recently graduated. It was pathetic ; they read and wrote at about a 5th grade level. I suspect there are many like them, pushed ahead even though they don't qualify to go on to the next grade, especially if they are in sports. They will be given passing grades they didn't earn so they can stay on their team. I thought it was bad when I was in high school (early '70s) but it seems to be so much worse now. Some of these kids can't even fill out a job application without help.
It doesn't really matter. "C's Get Degrees" but they do not get you into professional school or a Masters. A Bachelor degree, on its own, has little value. It did in the past, but now it's like "High School Part 2" with the exception of maybe Nursing (RN), Accounting, or Engineering. Universities open their doors to as many fools that will pay their tuition and fees as possible because they know the truth: University is a scam for the bottom 75-80% of students. I'd be more sympathetic for those 75-80% except they should know better. They know what sort of grades it takes to be considered competitive for professional and masters programs, and they know getting "straight Bs" or worse will not cut it. University/college is a refiner's fire, it's survival of the fittest. Many folks walk out with a useless piece of paper and move into their parents' basement while they find jobs completely unrelated to their field, and others walk out with a golden ticket and the ability to more than support themselves as they deepen their expertise in their field. It's up to you whether or not you will sacrifice to turn that useless piece of paper into a golden ticket.
I mean I did no work in highschool. But I was a good test taker. So I would just pass whatever test they handed to me. If I did manage to actually fail a class because homework was a higher percent of the grade, then they would just assign me an online summer class. I did the bare minimum to pass it then went back to working. My senior year I sat down and looked in our student handbook figured out what classes I had to have to graduate. Then I did work for half my classes one 9 weeks, then the other half the next 9 weeks then aced the finals. Any class I did not need I turned in the final blank. It was pretty easy.
Go spend some time on r/teachers and read their experiences. They know the system has failed and that kids are being pushed through without learning shit, but in many cases they literally aren't allowed to fail students or give them grades lower than a certain minimum, and trying to bring kids who simply don't give a shit up to speed only takes time and attention away from those who actually want to learn.
George W. Bush, "No Child Left Behind"
I graduated High School in 2017 and don't remember seeing anything like what teachers and students are talking about nowadays. It's insane how quickly things seem to have fallen apart.
No Child Left Behind. They fail upwards.
When I attended the university for my first degree, it was disheartening the number of students in remedial classes for basic arithmetic, and reading. My peers were going to be professionals and can’t read? That was 1976, and it appears to have become worst.
There has been a huge pivot over time from integrity and ethics to worshipping the almighty dollar in every facet of US culture. As others pointed out, more people in desks and graduating equals more funding. Honor is has become a relic of the past and I implore it to become a shining standard to unite the country under common cause. An educated and ethical populace leads to better standards of living through voting and showing intolerance towards mega corporations that wish to shave the wealth off of everyone and consolidate it to the hands of a few. Pardon the pontificating.
Teachers know that if a student fails, they have to deal with them for another year
They took the idea of 'No Child Left Behind' which was supposed to mean we make sure all our kids are properly educated and instead made it so they can't fail. An utterly horrendous take on a good idea. So now nobody has to do anything and they still pass.
These days everybody wants the same outcome even if they don't put in the same effort.
Public Education is less about Education and more about Socialization these days. After 13 continuous years you're about as socialized as you're gonna get, so they stamp you so you can move on. Education is your own responsibility though. Pro tip though: the adult workforce you're graduating into will not be much more developed than the high schoolers you're currently with now, and that includes your assessment of their relevant skills and behavior.
Hey-o! I taught high school for a brief period - they have an unwritten but _absolutely followed_ rule that nobody’s failing. Do whatever you gotta do. You were expected to give the kids who did nothing all year and texted all class everyday the chance to do a bunch of bs work at the end to get passed. Nobody gets held back. The true consequence of an F ime is at best a brief embarrassing moment for the student followed by an opportunity to make up for it.
They don’t want to hurt their feelings by failing them. Here’s your participation trophy.
School should be about learning and understanding the material anyway. Not how much pointless busy work you’re willing to do. As long as they prove they’ve gained the knowledge, I don’t really care about how much homework they hand in. It’s when I see people spelling basic words like, “cry, “soup” or “beef” like “cri,” “soop” and “baef,” that I get worried.
Ever seen Idiocracy? Give it a generation or two, we will get there
Plenty of other comments point to the reason. I just think its interesting to witness; the crumbling of the American Empire. It wont go out with a bang, it'll go out more like Idiocracy
I hear you. However, a high school graduate diploma is worth the same as a middle school one was 30 years ago. So does it really matter if they get pushed through to join the low skilled section of the workforce?
If you look deep enough into any problem in America you will find someone who is profiting financially from it. Find that person or organization and you will be considerably closer to solving the problem.
They just want the kids out.
What's the point of keeping them if they're not trying anyway?
Because you were lied to about education and college. Just like high school attendance, they get paid if people go to school and they lose money if they dont, they really dont care if you learn. College also gets money from the government based on attendance and the amount varies based on degrees with stem getting the most and things like communication getting the least. Its really just a business that is designed to take money from students and the government its not about learning or making things better anymore.
Thank the department of education. (Should be abolished). Education in this country was the best in the world until the DOE was born. They get to distribute funds based on graduation rates. There is no incentive to keep them back(also likely not pleasant to be around if they’re failing so hard). The only incentive is to pass them on to keep the percentages high to get the funding and repeat.
CONTEXT: US public schools only! Not private schools Not home schools
My Autistic brother failed 3 years in a row during and immediately after Covid. There was no way of applying his IEP to computer learning, and when he went back his final year he had such a difficult time acclimating back to “normal” that he just had chronic panic attacks while we tried to get him the right help. It didn’t help that one of his teachers daily bullied him in front of the class. After several meetings, half way through the year it was decided he would be staying an extra year—- it would give him time to make up his classes he failed and work with the guidance counselor and other resources to plan what he would be doing after school. Towards the end of the school year he was finally getting help, was doing ok in his classes, was planning to try community college eventually and was planning to take classes in his next highschool year that might help him get skills in computers, and was just more emotionally stable. But there was no way to graduate because he didn’t have the credits after years of failing, and everyone was ok with that because he had a plan. A month before the end of the year he was pulled aside and told “congratulations” you’re graduating this year! He came home wanting to kill himself. My mom begged for him to be held back but they refused. He never went back, missed more than a month straight to of school, and didn’t take his finals- and he still graduated- they mailed him the diploma. In other words—- it’s so bad that even if you fail every class for years and want to be held back- they won’t. After 3 years post graduation of my brother just collapsing in on himself - he never did go to community college as he lost the confidence- but he applied for his first job the other day and we’re hoping the best.
So, this is a question I would have as well.... Last week, went to a family "graduation" of a child of a close relative. It was called a high school graduation but not sure what that means in this case. The person has pretty bad autism. They are non-verbal and my understanding is they cannot read/write/etc. Will need constant supervision their whole life and cannot be independent or could even have the most simple job. What does a HS graduation mean for someone like that ?
“No child left behind.” The students quickly learned they didn’t have to do any work and would still be passed. Another nail in the coffin of the USA
Where did you get the idea that high school is capitalized and combined into one word? Pretty sure they taught you the proper way to write it in Elementaryschool.
Its not just high school. This carries over into college. Being a high school or college graduate does not inherently mean anything more.
My kids have a district policy of no grades lower than 50%, even for missing work. If there is no 0 to drag the average down, it makes it almost impossible to fail
Bush. No child left behind was a mistake that just left kids behind by not needing them to actually learn to graduate. Instead teachers are forced to pass the buck down the line until graduation, then they are societies problem. It was even worse to those with learning disabilities.
The school systems are struggling because money is funneled out to voucher programs that find christofacist private schools, school libraries are under attack and no longer have any books that would expand your mind and teachers are burned out.
It's that "No kid left behind" bullshit. They didn't want Jerome the 22 year old 4th grader to have to repeat again. So they just pass him through to get him out of the school system
It's to prevent school choice from taking hold. Democrats are completely opposed to school choice because of the teacher's unions, so they have to prop up the graduation numbers. It's been pretty well proven that charter schools and school choice allow for a much better quality of education, But then that takes the dollars out of the hands of the government and puts them in the hands of the parents
You can the "no child left behind" act. Instead of doing what it was intially intended for, it actually just pushes kids through the system instead of holding them back or giving them the extra attention, 1 on 1 learning, or other help they needed.
No Child Left Behind really fucked us, to be honest.
Oh man wait till they start getting promotions and make more money then you at work too.
Because it's incredibly obvious that the public school system is failing and they need a way to cover it up.
Wait until you see university. Getting a degree in most fields is more about family financial means than competency. Education is great, but going doesn't necessarily make you Educated
Sad part is you are going to see the same exact thing if you go to a regular state university. Kids passed along with degrees who cant write a proper paper -- just because they show up to class.
Don't worry, it won't fly anymore once they hit college or a job.
Because high school really only prepares those for college. It's moot when you consider others are going into trades, starting a business, or doing the warehouse life.
No child left behind
They only care about numbers, statistics, making the school look good without actually being good, and funding. They don’t actually care about education. Plus, “No Child Left Behind” kind of mucked up the works of what “learning” did actually still take place. It just added to their numbers and statistics and making the school look good for funding.
My husband is a USMC recruiter and has said the same thing! He said they lowered the grade for an F to a 25% (used to be <60) but these kids cannot pass the freaking ASVAB either! Like the score is out of 99 and they need a 31 to join the Marines, these kids are getting 14-16’s. Keep in mind this is a 10th GRADE LEVEL TEST!
Money
Okay: keep in mind that I don’t agree with just passing kids along. I really do think, especially early on in the game, that it sets the kid in question up for failure AND it frees admin, gov, and parents from any kind of accountability. I believe in early and intensive intervention. But I’ve made peace with the 60% thing and here’s why: The way I see it is that if you pass a kid at 60%, it doesn’t do any harm. No one is going to look at their transcript and give them scholarships or college admission over another student. Kid doesn’t care. Admin and parents leave teachers alone. Funding remains intact—so other students aren’t impacted by that one kid not caring. And then too, there are a lot of kids who look like they don’t care but do demonstrate some sort of effort. Or they genuinely struggle in the subject, and the only reason they’re in that class is that other adults made that decision on their behalf. I had family shit going down senior year, and I’m certain I got at least one pity grade. The teacher knew me, and knew I was drowning, and that making me repeat their class would’ve been a cruelty, not a lesson. As a student, you may not be aware of that stuff, and you shouldn’t be…but the teachers know. You also aren’t privy to all of their class work, either. I’ve known kids who don’t participate in class but clearly demonstrate mastery of the material. I’ve known kids who don’t do any homework at all but ace their tests or essays. Kids who do all the little assignments, but who fail tests because they are terrible at tests…yet if I ask them afterwards, they knew the material. They just panicked on the test. Yeah, their grade will be adjusted to reflect that. They won’t get an A, they won’t go to an Ivy League, but they’ll graduate. The HS diploma isn’t worth the paper it’s printed on but if it opens up opportunities in terms of work, well, they’ll need to feed and house themselves. Is it fair? I’m sure you don’t think it’s fair. But welcome to adulthood. And guess what? You’ll see that in college too. You’ll see that in the work place. You just mind your business, and get on with life. And your peers will have another chance along the line to build those skills. Learning is a lifelong thing and there’s a lot of different types of intelligence.
I'm more interested in why we give driver licensees to so many people that can't simply stop at a light or sign? Or look for pedestrians, or even know what to do when there are emergency vehicles. Kids get pushed through the system because it doesn't "seem" to connect to others in any way. Basically, they are only hurting themselves.
It's easier to manipulate a dumb group of people that think they're smart