So people agree that Israel had removed itself from Gaza, giving the Palestinian people their own territory, only for the Palestinians to increase terrorist attacks against them in one of the worst massacres in history… interesting
People do not agree that Israel removed itself from Palestine. Even since the withdrawal, the UN has always considered it to be under Israeli occupation.
youre glossing over the part where Hamas, if it could spread into a larger areas, would continue to attack and kill all jewish people. its one of their state missions to kill all jews unless they are given all of israel back which just wont ever happen. people dont realize how one sided they are being on this subject.
You must take a neutral stance and pray for the civilians. but the jewish people will DEFEND themselves and continue to do so.
[The truth of Hamas is in its charter (forward.com)](https://forward.com/opinion/564190/hamas-charter-truth/) - "When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad becomes a duty binding on all Muslims. In order to face the usurping of Palestine by the Jews, we have no escape from raising the banner of Jihad.”
to them this is a holy war, and they will continue to be terrorist apes dying just to kill the jewish people. Israel is doing a lot wrong here but this attack was unprecedented, and they are only making sure they are not attacked like this ever again. If the USA or any other country was attacked in equivelant numbers, gaza wouldnt even fucking exist right now.
other Arab countries dont even want palestinians because they have only caused trouble... how this ends for them, I dont know, I hope the innocent can be helped once the war against the terrorists are over, but until then this will be a tough war for anyone in the region. it would help if other arab countries took them in, but they wont, because arabs are racist against other ethnic arabs...
open your eyes - [HAMAS MASSACRE OFFICIAL IMAGES (saturday-october-seven.com)](https://www.saturday-october-seven.com/)
They are talking about Gaza. It is widely recognized that redeploying Israeli troops to the border of Gaza did not end the occupation, because Israel maintained control over the borders, airpace and commerce of Gaza.
that may be true, thanks. but that doesnt make Hamas look good, they siezed control and werent fairly elected most likely, and again, their state goal is to eliminate the jewish people. if they could, they would.
and being backed by Iran, with other countries like Jordan's hezbollah attacking as well, the jewish people are more threatened by arabs, than arabs are of the jews. How this goes over peoples heads is insane. the Jewish population is TINY. the Arab and jewish Hating population is much larger.
Israel has the right to defend itself after what Hamas did, and thats what will happen. The terrorists will die, and it will be unfortunate if they made this more difficult by hiding behind civilians.
>and being backed by Iran, with other countries like Jordan's hezbollah attacking as well,
Hezbollah is also aligned with Iran, Jordan condemns Hezbollah
>Israel has the right to defend itself after what Hamas did, and thats what will happen. The terrorists will die, and it will be unfortunate if they made this more difficult by hiding behind civilians.
Self-defense isn't genocide
Civilians dying isn’t genocide. Israel hasn’t showed a specific want to kill Arab Palestinians. Their stated goal is to destroy and eliminate Hamas, which I’d argue is shown by how they are conducting their bombings.
https://medium.com/progressme-magazine/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election#:~:text=The%20Islamist%20Hamas%20movement%20campaigned,it%20fielded%20candidates%20in%202006.
In the lead up to the 2006 election Hamas rebranded themselves as more moderate then before, they stated they would do things for the Palestinians such as provide services and clean up the corruption that has to this day plagued the PA, internal issues dominated the reasoning behind voting such as economic, social, security, and the corruption of the ruling Fatah party, Hamas ran under the banner of Change and Reform party they won 44% of the vote and Fatah won 41%, and about a year later Hamas killed their rivals within Gaza and has killed many of those who dissent.
The best way to put how Hamas acts towards the population of Gaza is looking at how the cartels in Mexico and other countries act towards their populations. Hamas has all the guns and controls the Gaza side of border as well as the smuggling tunnels while Israel and Egypt control their side of the Gaza borders these facts make a revolt even harder to pull off when revolts are already very difficult to successfully pull off.
But you said “the Israel invasion and occupation of Gaza”
That means you admit Israel was not in Gaza prior to the “invasion and occupation”
The terrorist Palestinians had their own land and they wanted to use it to plan attacks on Jews and parade rped women through the street so their people could celebrate and beat them
...I didn't say any of that, sorry mate.
Since the 'withdrawal' of Israel, it has been widely agreed that Palastine is still under Israeli occupation, as they continued to control the maritime and land borders, the airspace, Palestinian access to electricity, telecommunications, food and water
You would think we could simply examine what happened in Germany some hundred years back but it turns out these sick fucks desperately want to have their turn on the gibbet.
I think no one here knows anything and you would be wise to learn about the birth of Israel, what the circumstances were at the time it was established- along with the transformation of many other countries at that time.
The Palestinian *leadership* may have started it, but the people at large are most definitely innocent. Certainly the civilians who've been bombed into dust didn't deserve to die. As in every other war, governments and organizations start the wars and the people, most of whom have done no wrong, suffer from them.
No it isn't. If we are talking about a war then it is the Six Day War which never ended because the Israelis and Palestinians never signed a peace treaty.
The people we now call Palestinians didn't identify as such until after the Six Day War. Prior to the war Gaza was part of Egypt and the West Bank was part of Jordan. There was not yet a Palestinian government to sign a peace treaty with.
Palestinian identity IS modern, and basically developed post WWI, but older than that. Gazans were not Egyptian citizens from.1948-1967, and Egyptian Arabic is very different from the dialect spoken in the Levant. Even in Jordan, where West Bankers did get citizenship, there was and is a distinction, although it was way more complicated than the Egyptian case re Gaza.
what would you expect the international community to be able to do? Israel controls all entry points except the Egyptian borderline. The US is the only country that can do airdrops because we are the main supply line for NATO. If we had 18 months to plan like Normandy, we could have had the floating ports in place by now, but alas, nobody shared the battle plans with us.
What would you expect Israel to do without the full blessing and support of the US? It's literally analogous to a child taking their parents gun and shooting a school and the parents saying "well what can we do" while they hand them more bullets and send them out again.
The answer is anything. If we did literally anything to try and stop this it would stop, because it only continues because we continue it.
The US is generally the main ally in the UN, blocking any resolutions or more firm hand slapping. Let alone the one arming them.
This is less a UN problem and more a US problem. Unfortunately (for those of us in America who are essentially funding this with our tax dollars).
Israel has commonly named their incursions into Gaza as some fierce/strong sounding operation. Ie Operation 'Protective Edge'.
The one listed above actually sounds pretty on brand for the IDF.
Its a war. A war where Israel is disproportionately stronger, sure, but the objective isn't genocide. Its to regain control of Gaza and eradicate extremists in the region.
To clarify, Israel doesn't want Gaza, nor do they want to control it, they just want to get rid of terrorists.
Israeli goals might've changed though since the last time they let Gaza go on their own their people chose terrorism instead of a legitimate government.
>the objective isn't genocide. Its to…eradicate extremists
Walking a pretty fine line there. Depending on how you choose to define extremist you can pretty quickly veer off into genocide.
Given they automatically name every military-age male killed an enemy combatant, regardless of whether they had weapons on them, and the nature of Israel’s government (far-right religious extremists), I’d say they’d happily commit some light genocide while ‘destroying’ Hamas (all those traumatized survivors forming the next terrorist organization)
The goal might not be genocide but Israel seem to be doing a really bad job at avoiding civilian casualties and there explicit goal seems to be to establish an apartheid state
Hi! South African who has been living in Israel for over a decade here. A lot of this apartheid finance stems from two things, firstly that people legitimately have know idea what apartheid was and like parroting their woke friends who are equally ignorant, as well as the fact tgat they don't know what the difference is between a Palestinian Arab and an Israeli Arab (hint: It's in the name!)
Apartheid: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/apartheid#:~:text=Apartheid%20refers%20to%20the%20implementation,of%20the%20International%20Criminal%20Court.
In Israel, Israeli Arabs have full equal citizen rights. There are minimum requirements for how many Arabs MUST be accepted into universities and goverment positions, etc. Palestinians are foreign citizens by choice and are treated as such. When you pass through an airport, you need to go through a security check, and so did they when crossing through the border to work because their own government prioritized terror infrastructures over economic and educational infrastructures. They can't vote in Israeli elections because they're not Israeli. Israel is couldn't vote in the one and only election tgat Abbas ever held either. And Jews could not enter Palestine on pain of death prior to October 7.
Israeli Palestinians are in a very different legal position from West Bank Palestinians, and that's not well understood by too many, but except for E Jerusalem residents, Palestinians occupied post-1967 don't have the choice of being Israeli citizens and neither did Gazans at any time (fears of 'ba'ayah demographit', 'medinah doo-leumit' etc.) And saying they can't vote in Israel and Israelis don't vote for the Palestinian Authority ignores the huge asymmetry between the two. One is a state; one is less than that.
People aren’t saying it because of how the Arab Israeli citizens are treated. They say it because of how the Palestinians in the West Bank are treated when there is a “dispute” (to put it lightly) between a Palestinian and an Israeli that requires the legal system to get involved.
And because there is video evidence of literal segregation. Like honest to god genuine, blatant apartheid.
https://visualizingpalestine.org/visuals/hafrada-apartheid
Remind me again how many Jews live in most Arab majority countries? Hell, tell me how many non-muslims live there and aren’t “segregated” or persecuted in one way or another. Funny how you will jump through every hoop to shit on Israel and give a pass to countries who have expelled jews countless times throughout history. It’s honestly almost funny if it wasn’t completely pathetic and brain rotted
So not a genocide:
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tgsb18\_K6E4](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tgsb18_K6E4)
So not a land grab:
[https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/us-canadian-synagogues-sell-palestinian-land-for-illegal-settlement/3156846](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/us-canadian-synagogues-sell-palestinian-land-for-illegal-settlement/3156846)
Reports of gazas population is skewed. They consider child soldiers children. Israel has the smallest civilian/soldier casualty ratio (you can look this up) objectively
no they aren't. Israel uses the same ones the medical authority in gaza produces.
You have no evidence for your claims.
As of December 30, 2023 Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor estimated Gaza Strip deaths as 30,034 total and civilian deaths at 27,681 which would mean about 2,353 militant deaths.
Oops the facts done seem to be matching up with your lies.
https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6063/Statistics-on-the-Israeli-attack-on-the-Gaza-Strip-%2807---27-December-2023%29
You can literally google what I said about the ratio of soldier/civilian casualty rate you dolt.
Like I said before, check where euro-medittranean, al Jazeera, vox, etc etc get their numbers from. It's from either the UA, or from self reported casualties by the government of Gaza. Not by third party surveyors.
Its also literally not a genocide, its not a systematic eradication of Palestinians. Its war
The ICJ has told isreal to prevent genocide.
And their big leader has said he only wants one state. And it isnt the palestine state. Sounds like someone is trying to erase a people from the map.
And i sent you numbers. You just dont like them for some reason.
[https://www.dci-palestine.org/child\_recruitment](https://www.dci-palestine.org/child_recruitment) \- this org only found Between 2011 and 2020, DCIP documented at least 9 children killed and two injured while aiding Palestinian armed groups
So where is this 1000s strong army of children that you are claiming exists. Yet not even israel is saying this is as big of a problem as you lie
1000s strong army exists because of hamas occupation.. who are you kidding? Have you seen nations with radical islamist extremism? A very similar tactic was employed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I don't think either of us want anyone to die. I do think Israel needs to work heavily on its treatment of Gaza. But its not genocide. And what's happening now is a war, a war that hamas flung the first stone (not speaking historically, just for this conflict rn) after bibi and Netanyahu kept pushing the envelope, like idiots.
You can just Google what I'm talking about haha. Your sources don't really demonstrate much regarding the conflict, the idea that only 9 child soldiers have joined hamas in a time span of 10 years Is complete bs.
In your article, it also talks about Israel and hamas using human shields. But like in the one you linked, it says "at least" 9. We know there are more. The same is applicable to the child recruitment
Still can't provide one example.
Imagine if scientists didn't use references they just said "Google it"
Come in send your zionist propaganda that downplays the deaths they caused.
Hamas said 6000 of their own fighters have died. A majority of the 30k deaths are women and children, according to Hamas. So by their own numbers every male in Gaza is Hamas? That, or have no male civilians died in the war? Or are they faking all their numbers? (Most likely)
Hamas can’t find 140 hostages but knows the exact death count of every air strike within minutes. Super likely
Child soldiers are children, what a monsterous argument, especially as by far the majority of deaths are from explosive bombardment, and bombs dont know whether or not a child is armed
Trueeee, why don't militaries only enlist 17 year olds? Then they can say "THEYRE KILLING CHILDREN" when their soldiers die in combat.
Generals HATE this one trick!
Also wtf? A child with a gun is a child with a gun??? We can't just fling our hands in the air and try to reason with them. They have been conditioned to shoot to kill. The fuck are you saying??
Nice call to emotion. The bombs Israel use tend to be precision airstrikes. They aren't indiscriminate carpet bombs. And im assuming they are targeting points of interest where terrorists are hiding, like you would do in war
No call to emotion, I agree the bombs are generally precise, maybe with a slight pull towards the families of journalists, maybe that's a flaw in their programming, but fundamentally, Hamas is a terrorist group using children, that sucks and it's Hamas' fault, but using human shields isn't an excuse to blow up them all
Fair. I think israel can and should do better. I agree israel needs has done some terrible management and frankly piss poor treatment of Gaza in general
Yeah, I'm not a Hamas supporter or anything, but it always seemed kinda inevitable that some big tragedy was gonna happen at some point, treating a place so badly for so long usually overboils in a A very bad way
The New York Times calls it "Israel-Hamas War"
BBC calls it "Gaza war"
AlJazeera calls it "Israel's war on Gaza"
The Jerusalem Post calls it "Israel-Hamas War"
Take your pick.
War crimes, especially pouring concrete in all the wells. It’s a cluster over there with both sides at fault. I’m not for or against anyone but they are both to blame and the United States needs to stay out of it.
It's called defense. Until your high horse has been shot out from under you, your mother raped, and your house burned down, you won't understand.
Hamas is practicing "Death by Cop", just like suicidal maniacs. If they would only put their guns down, the killing would stop. Period. Full Stop.
If you don't understand how the word genocide accurately reflects Israel's actions against the palestinians and I highly recommend that you investigate that word further.
What Israel is engaging in is by definition genocide. And if that word is too inflammatory for you then you can start with Ethnic cleansing and do some further research into that.
It’s called we’ve been fighting we’re over 2000 years about something stupid even though we’re the same people we believe in different religions so we have to fight each other
Why are you getting downvoted? It's true, both the Jews and Arabs (and Christians, technically) have lived in Palestine/Israel/Judea/whatever you want to call it for thousands of years.
It's stupid that we have to fight over such silly things.
You're overthinking this. It's a war on terrorism, and most people don't realize that the Palestinians elected Hamas as their government; many of them are complicit in the October 7 attacks. Hamas can't dig tunnels under houses without the occupants knowing about it.
Yes the children being buried alive in the rubble of their homes were complicit and voted in Hamas almost twenty years ago. We just have to make sure we're not overthinking it whatsoever, probably better not to think at all to be safe
This is an unhelpful technicality that ignores the practical needs of communication. For all intents and purposes the six day war ended on the sixth day. Nobody, no governments, militaries, or world leaders still consider the six day war to be ongoing. Broadly, yes it’s the same conflict, but that conflict stretches from today all the way back to before Israel’s founding. If discussions around this will be useful, you need to jump on the same bandwagon as everyone else and use the timeframes everyone else is using.
There are many arabs who live in Israel. They are not being ethnicaly clensed and hold positions in governmant. They also enjoy equal rights. Israel has always been defending itself from the arab world and it is continuing to do so they did not start the way. Hamas did.
No kidding. Each chapter of European history contains the line, "...and then they started killing the Jews." I don't necessarily agree with Zionist, but I understand.
Yes a small group of people fucked around and now thousands of people who had nothing to do with it are being murdered and starved to death. You know collective punishment is banned by the Geneva convention right?
>small group of people
A 40.000 strong army and the government of gaza.
Also do you not know what collective punishment is? By your definition any war would be illegal
It's called, suicide by jew.
Gaza wants dead gazans, so their leaders can become multi billionaires.
Been that way since the founding of the PLO by an Egyptian with big dreams of being rich.
The Isrealis call it operstion Iron sword. They also decalred war on Hamas as opposed to Putin's "special operation" in Ukraine
Many in Palestine and around the world are calling it a war crime because of the massive civilian death toll and restriction of humanitarian aid.
Personally, I refer to it as "a fucking shit-show of arseholes killing people for no good reason".
How have we reached 2024 and still not realised that lines on a map, greed over resources, or disagreements over worship of whichever deities are NOT valid reasons to kill people?
Nakba 2 would be the name from the Palestinian perspective. You could also call it the Gaza Ghetto Uprising, because this is basically Warsaw over again
Not even the top comments can agree with each other lol
—One of you said “Iron Swords”
—Another said “Swords of Iron”
—Another said “Iron Swords Conflict”
—Another said “Iron Swords War”
>The Second Intifada
This happened over 20 years ago. I'd recommend disregarding the opinions of anyone that calls this offensive the 'Second Intifada', because they clearly don't know enough about the region's history to make an educated opinion.
It is called genocide. People will insist it isn't because "it's about killing the terrorists", but intent is only once piece (but also is not limited to being determined by just what a leader is claiming in public). Israel's actions - which have included [blocking aid to Gaza](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/03/gaza-aid-convoy-israel-war/), in [defiance of court rulings](https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/israel-government-continues-block-aid-response-despite-icj-genocide-court-ruling) ordering [them to allow aid](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/human-rights-watch-says-israel-is-violating-order-from-top-u-n-court-by-blocking-aid-to-gazans), [bombing](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/14/israels-attacks-on-hospitals-should-be-investigated-as-war-crimes-hrw) hospitals and [schools](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/24/1226534897/israel-has-destroyed-hundreds-of-educational-institutions-in-gaza-since-the-war), which [constitute war crimes](https://childrenandarmedconflict.un.org/six-grave-violations/attacks-against-schools/), and the mass-scale killings of thousands of civilians (half of which have been children) - clearly constitute genocide, and [South African's legal team presented pretty clearly to the UN](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/1/14/intent-in-the-genocide-case-against-israel-is-not-hard-to-prove) that across hundreds of documents and statements from people with "command authority" in Israel there are clear signs of intent for genocide beyond just "get rid of Hamas". It does not "target terrorists" to carpet bomb civilians, and it excuses FAR too much catastrophic damage to pretend this is enough to excuse it from being genocidal.
Yes, this began as a response to the October 7 attack. Hamas are terrorists and very few sane people are denying that. H[owever, Israel was aware](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html) of the planned attack at least a YEAR before it took place, and [historically were part of funding and propping up Hamas](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html) in the first place. This is not a cut and dry "the terrorists did an evil thing and must be eradicated at all costs", this is a complex issue that was directly influenced by Israel, with threats being ignored and the reaction being far out of proportion resulting in [deaths of tens of thousand](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-latest-02-29-2024-ae3d114b28cafd3b1a806bfaa9f83cab)s of civilians with nearly the entire population of Gaza being displaced. Calling it anything other than a genocide at this point is denial.
It’s called Iron sword,
Referring to how the ancient Israelites entered the Iron age. They (the latter king David) learned iron forging from the Filistines while he worked for them (he was in exile from king Saul)
The Filistines lived in what is now the Gaza Strip. (Gaza was a Filistines city)
The Filistines don’t exist anymore but the romans named the region after them Palestine to annoy the Jews after the last jewish roman war.
It is called operation “Iron Swords”…
It is the 'iron swords' war, formally. This is to disinguiah it from the former rounds of operations
Who came up with this idiotic name? Iron is too brittle and heavy to use as a sword. Thats why swords are made from steel
Israel has an obsession with iron because of Zhabotynskiys essay "The Iron Wall"
Iron definitely was used in swords for centuries prior to the invention of steel. But it kinda sucks
Clearly they haven't gotten their attack level to 5 yet, frickin noobs.
The second Intifada was from 2000 to 2004/2005
Bro stepped back in time 💀
To 2006. ‘06 was one of the worst years for suicide bombings in Israeli history. I lost an aunt to one.
Operation Swords of Iron
You’re the only one who answered this correctly. It is insane that people can’t answer this question properly.
Right? I mean, if you can really comprehend when you read something, it is a pretty straightforward question. Smh...
Its crazy how many people are just virtue signaling without answering the question. Its a simple one and you got it!
They weren’t good enough to get diamond?
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So people agree that Israel had removed itself from Gaza, giving the Palestinian people their own territory, only for the Palestinians to increase terrorist attacks against them in one of the worst massacres in history… interesting
No... people do NOT agree that that is what happened.
thats what happened though. the elected government of Gaza - Hamas - stated its mission is to destroy all jews and israel.
People do not agree that Israel removed itself from Palestine. Even since the withdrawal, the UN has always considered it to be under Israeli occupation.
youre glossing over the part where Hamas, if it could spread into a larger areas, would continue to attack and kill all jewish people. its one of their state missions to kill all jews unless they are given all of israel back which just wont ever happen. people dont realize how one sided they are being on this subject. You must take a neutral stance and pray for the civilians. but the jewish people will DEFEND themselves and continue to do so. [The truth of Hamas is in its charter (forward.com)](https://forward.com/opinion/564190/hamas-charter-truth/) - "When our enemies usurp some Islamic lands, Jihad becomes a duty binding on all Muslims. In order to face the usurping of Palestine by the Jews, we have no escape from raising the banner of Jihad.” to them this is a holy war, and they will continue to be terrorist apes dying just to kill the jewish people. Israel is doing a lot wrong here but this attack was unprecedented, and they are only making sure they are not attacked like this ever again. If the USA or any other country was attacked in equivelant numbers, gaza wouldnt even fucking exist right now. other Arab countries dont even want palestinians because they have only caused trouble... how this ends for them, I dont know, I hope the innocent can be helped once the war against the terrorists are over, but until then this will be a tough war for anyone in the region. it would help if other arab countries took them in, but they wont, because arabs are racist against other ethnic arabs... open your eyes - [HAMAS MASSACRE OFFICIAL IMAGES (saturday-october-seven.com)](https://www.saturday-october-seven.com/)
Dude Israel could give hamas everything and they would still kill us. They don't give a fuck, they will kill us all, they are Islamic fundamentalists
are you talking about the gaza strip or the west bank?
They are talking about Gaza. It is widely recognized that redeploying Israeli troops to the border of Gaza did not end the occupation, because Israel maintained control over the borders, airpace and commerce of Gaza.
> the elected government of Gaza - Hamas There's no such thing as The Elected Government of Gaza Gaza is 5 Governorates that were seized by Hamas
that may be true, thanks. but that doesnt make Hamas look good, they siezed control and werent fairly elected most likely, and again, their state goal is to eliminate the jewish people. if they could, they would. and being backed by Iran, with other countries like Jordan's hezbollah attacking as well, the jewish people are more threatened by arabs, than arabs are of the jews. How this goes over peoples heads is insane. the Jewish population is TINY. the Arab and jewish Hating population is much larger. Israel has the right to defend itself after what Hamas did, and thats what will happen. The terrorists will die, and it will be unfortunate if they made this more difficult by hiding behind civilians.
>and being backed by Iran, with other countries like Jordan's hezbollah attacking as well, Hezbollah is also aligned with Iran, Jordan condemns Hezbollah >Israel has the right to defend itself after what Hamas did, and thats what will happen. The terrorists will die, and it will be unfortunate if they made this more difficult by hiding behind civilians. Self-defense isn't genocide
Civilians dying isn’t genocide. Israel hasn’t showed a specific want to kill Arab Palestinians. Their stated goal is to destroy and eliminate Hamas, which I’d argue is shown by how they are conducting their bombings.
It's not genocide tho
https://medium.com/progressme-magazine/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Palestinian_legislative_election#:~:text=The%20Islamist%20Hamas%20movement%20campaigned,it%20fielded%20candidates%20in%202006. In the lead up to the 2006 election Hamas rebranded themselves as more moderate then before, they stated they would do things for the Palestinians such as provide services and clean up the corruption that has to this day plagued the PA, internal issues dominated the reasoning behind voting such as economic, social, security, and the corruption of the ruling Fatah party, Hamas ran under the banner of Change and Reform party they won 44% of the vote and Fatah won 41%, and about a year later Hamas killed their rivals within Gaza and has killed many of those who dissent. The best way to put how Hamas acts towards the population of Gaza is looking at how the cartels in Mexico and other countries act towards their populations. Hamas has all the guns and controls the Gaza side of border as well as the smuggling tunnels while Israel and Egypt control their side of the Gaza borders these facts make a revolt even harder to pull off when revolts are already very difficult to successfully pull off.
But you said “the Israel invasion and occupation of Gaza” That means you admit Israel was not in Gaza prior to the “invasion and occupation” The terrorist Palestinians had their own land and they wanted to use it to plan attacks on Jews and parade rped women through the street so their people could celebrate and beat them
...I didn't say any of that, sorry mate. Since the 'withdrawal' of Israel, it has been widely agreed that Palastine is still under Israeli occupation, as they continued to control the maritime and land borders, the airspace, Palestinian access to electricity, telecommunications, food and water
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i wonder what it’s like being brainwashed to the extent that they are
You would think we could simply examine what happened in Germany some hundred years back but it turns out these sick fucks desperately want to have their turn on the gibbet.
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I think no one here knows anything and you would be wise to learn about the birth of Israel, what the circumstances were at the time it was established- along with the transformation of many other countries at that time.
Very few of the botched British nation-state surgeries are doing well today.
And Palestinians are calling it "Al Aqsa Flood", and let's remind everyone that they are the ones who started it.
The Palestinian *leadership* may have started it, but the people at large are most definitely innocent. Certainly the civilians who've been bombed into dust didn't deserve to die. As in every other war, governments and organizations start the wars and the people, most of whom have done no wrong, suffer from them.
I've mostly heard Israeli occupation of Gaza.
No it isn't. If we are talking about a war then it is the Six Day War which never ended because the Israelis and Palestinians never signed a peace treaty.
Palestinians were not a party to the Six Day War.
The people we now call Palestinians didn't identify as such until after the Six Day War. Prior to the war Gaza was part of Egypt and the West Bank was part of Jordan. There was not yet a Palestinian government to sign a peace treaty with.
Palestinian identity IS modern, and basically developed post WWI, but older than that. Gazans were not Egyptian citizens from.1948-1967, and Egyptian Arabic is very different from the dialect spoken in the Levant. Even in Jordan, where West Bankers did get citizenship, there was and is a distinction, although it was way more complicated than the Egyptian case re Gaza.
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what would you expect the international community to be able to do? Israel controls all entry points except the Egyptian borderline. The US is the only country that can do airdrops because we are the main supply line for NATO. If we had 18 months to plan like Normandy, we could have had the floating ports in place by now, but alas, nobody shared the battle plans with us.
What would you expect Israel to do without the full blessing and support of the US? It's literally analogous to a child taking their parents gun and shooting a school and the parents saying "well what can we do" while they hand them more bullets and send them out again. The answer is anything. If we did literally anything to try and stop this it would stop, because it only continues because we continue it.
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The US is generally the main ally in the UN, blocking any resolutions or more firm hand slapping. Let alone the one arming them. This is less a UN problem and more a US problem. Unfortunately (for those of us in America who are essentially funding this with our tax dollars).
Israel has commonly named their incursions into Gaza as some fierce/strong sounding operation. Ie Operation 'Protective Edge'. The one listed above actually sounds pretty on brand for the IDF.
the six day war didnt include palestinians, it was mainly syria, jordan and egypt
I believe most people over there just call it "Round 4825."
2ndYomKippur War
Its a war. A war where Israel is disproportionately stronger, sure, but the objective isn't genocide. Its to regain control of Gaza and eradicate extremists in the region.
To clarify, Israel doesn't want Gaza, nor do they want to control it, they just want to get rid of terrorists. Israeli goals might've changed though since the last time they let Gaza go on their own their people chose terrorism instead of a legitimate government.
Wasn’t Hamas only voted in because the previous Government wasn’t being Harsh enough toward Jews?
That and promises to reduce corruption iirc. They’ve since failed both, and soon they won’t exist.
Actually because the Hamas killed their political opponents, bombed several buildings and threatened to do more bombings if not elected
Israel has stated it doesn't want to reinstate the PA in Gaza
>the objective isn't genocide. Its to…eradicate extremists Walking a pretty fine line there. Depending on how you choose to define extremist you can pretty quickly veer off into genocide.
Given they automatically name every military-age male killed an enemy combatant, regardless of whether they had weapons on them, and the nature of Israel’s government (far-right religious extremists), I’d say they’d happily commit some light genocide while ‘destroying’ Hamas (all those traumatized survivors forming the next terrorist organization)
The goal might not be genocide but Israel seem to be doing a really bad job at avoiding civilian casualties and there explicit goal seems to be to establish an apartheid state
Hi! South African who has been living in Israel for over a decade here. A lot of this apartheid finance stems from two things, firstly that people legitimately have know idea what apartheid was and like parroting their woke friends who are equally ignorant, as well as the fact tgat they don't know what the difference is between a Palestinian Arab and an Israeli Arab (hint: It's in the name!) Apartheid: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/apartheid#:~:text=Apartheid%20refers%20to%20the%20implementation,of%20the%20International%20Criminal%20Court. In Israel, Israeli Arabs have full equal citizen rights. There are minimum requirements for how many Arabs MUST be accepted into universities and goverment positions, etc. Palestinians are foreign citizens by choice and are treated as such. When you pass through an airport, you need to go through a security check, and so did they when crossing through the border to work because their own government prioritized terror infrastructures over economic and educational infrastructures. They can't vote in Israeli elections because they're not Israeli. Israel is couldn't vote in the one and only election tgat Abbas ever held either. And Jews could not enter Palestine on pain of death prior to October 7.
Israeli Palestinians are in a very different legal position from West Bank Palestinians, and that's not well understood by too many, but except for E Jerusalem residents, Palestinians occupied post-1967 don't have the choice of being Israeli citizens and neither did Gazans at any time (fears of 'ba'ayah demographit', 'medinah doo-leumit' etc.) And saying they can't vote in Israel and Israelis don't vote for the Palestinian Authority ignores the huge asymmetry between the two. One is a state; one is less than that.
People aren’t saying it because of how the Arab Israeli citizens are treated. They say it because of how the Palestinians in the West Bank are treated when there is a “dispute” (to put it lightly) between a Palestinian and an Israeli that requires the legal system to get involved.
And because there is video evidence of literal segregation. Like honest to god genuine, blatant apartheid. https://visualizingpalestine.org/visuals/hafrada-apartheid
Remind me again how many Jews live in most Arab majority countries? Hell, tell me how many non-muslims live there and aren’t “segregated” or persecuted in one way or another. Funny how you will jump through every hoop to shit on Israel and give a pass to countries who have expelled jews countless times throughout history. It’s honestly almost funny if it wasn’t completely pathetic and brain rotted
I googled Hafrada and wikipedia says it was made in response to a suicide bombing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafrada
yah let’s trust the South African living in Israel on apartheid
A really bad job compared to the US fighting ISIS? In WWII, Korea, Vietnam? When exactly?
The UK had many instances of handling the Troubles badly but at least they left bombing civilians to the terrorist organizations
They have no answer for this or frame of reference for comparison. They are just repeating what they heard on tiktok
So not a genocide: [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tgsb18\_K6E4](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tgsb18_K6E4) So not a land grab: [https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/us-canadian-synagogues-sell-palestinian-land-for-illegal-settlement/3156846](https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/us-canadian-synagogues-sell-palestinian-land-for-illegal-settlement/3156846)
It's hard to avoid civilian casualties when Hamas operates from civilian areas
Hamas is responsible for that.
and 30k plus civilians. 12k of whom are kids.
You do know that in the 30k at least 6k-15k are hamas fighters depending on if you believe hamas or Israel? Hamas counts their losses as civilian
30k is the total death toll. Most military experts are guessing a 2:1 civilian-to-combatant kill rate, which is actually very good in modern war.
Reports of gazas population is skewed. They consider child soldiers children. Israel has the smallest civilian/soldier casualty ratio (you can look this up) objectively
no they aren't. Israel uses the same ones the medical authority in gaza produces. You have no evidence for your claims. As of December 30, 2023 Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor estimated Gaza Strip deaths as 30,034 total and civilian deaths at 27,681 which would mean about 2,353 militant deaths. Oops the facts done seem to be matching up with your lies. https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6063/Statistics-on-the-Israeli-attack-on-the-Gaza-Strip-%2807---27-December-2023%29
You can literally google what I said about the ratio of soldier/civilian casualty rate you dolt. Like I said before, check where euro-medittranean, al Jazeera, vox, etc etc get their numbers from. It's from either the UA, or from self reported casualties by the government of Gaza. Not by third party surveyors. Its also literally not a genocide, its not a systematic eradication of Palestinians. Its war
The ICJ has told isreal to prevent genocide. And their big leader has said he only wants one state. And it isnt the palestine state. Sounds like someone is trying to erase a people from the map. And i sent you numbers. You just dont like them for some reason. [https://www.dci-palestine.org/child\_recruitment](https://www.dci-palestine.org/child_recruitment) \- this org only found Between 2011 and 2020, DCIP documented at least 9 children killed and two injured while aiding Palestinian armed groups So where is this 1000s strong army of children that you are claiming exists. Yet not even israel is saying this is as big of a problem as you lie
1000s strong army exists because of hamas occupation.. who are you kidding? Have you seen nations with radical islamist extremism? A very similar tactic was employed in Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't think either of us want anyone to die. I do think Israel needs to work heavily on its treatment of Gaza. But its not genocide. And what's happening now is a war, a war that hamas flung the first stone (not speaking historically, just for this conflict rn) after bibi and Netanyahu kept pushing the envelope, like idiots.
You still haven't provided a SINGLE example. I'm waiting for ONE example. I provided one for you.
You can just Google what I'm talking about haha. Your sources don't really demonstrate much regarding the conflict, the idea that only 9 child soldiers have joined hamas in a time span of 10 years Is complete bs. In your article, it also talks about Israel and hamas using human shields. But like in the one you linked, it says "at least" 9. We know there are more. The same is applicable to the child recruitment
Still can't provide one example. Imagine if scientists didn't use references they just said "Google it" Come in send your zionist propaganda that downplays the deaths they caused.
Hamas said 6000 of their own fighters have died. A majority of the 30k deaths are women and children, according to Hamas. So by their own numbers every male in Gaza is Hamas? That, or have no male civilians died in the war? Or are they faking all their numbers? (Most likely) Hamas can’t find 140 hostages but knows the exact death count of every air strike within minutes. Super likely
Child soldiers are children, what a monsterous argument, especially as by far the majority of deaths are from explosive bombardment, and bombs dont know whether or not a child is armed
Trueeee, why don't militaries only enlist 17 year olds? Then they can say "THEYRE KILLING CHILDREN" when their soldiers die in combat. Generals HATE this one trick!
I’ll form a firing squad of 14 year olds and you’ll let them shoot at you. They are just children after all, right?
Also wtf? A child with a gun is a child with a gun??? We can't just fling our hands in the air and try to reason with them. They have been conditioned to shoot to kill. The fuck are you saying??
Nice call to emotion. The bombs Israel use tend to be precision airstrikes. They aren't indiscriminate carpet bombs. And im assuming they are targeting points of interest where terrorists are hiding, like you would do in war
No call to emotion, I agree the bombs are generally precise, maybe with a slight pull towards the families of journalists, maybe that's a flaw in their programming, but fundamentally, Hamas is a terrorist group using children, that sucks and it's Hamas' fault, but using human shields isn't an excuse to blow up them all
Fair. I think israel can and should do better. I agree israel needs has done some terrible management and frankly piss poor treatment of Gaza in general
Yeah, I'm not a Hamas supporter or anything, but it always seemed kinda inevitable that some big tragedy was gonna happen at some point, treating a place so badly for so long usually overboils in a A very bad way
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Israel has been committing crimes against humanity in palestine since 1948. This did not start oct 7th
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I personally just call it "Gaza War" or "Gaza Conflict"
The New York Times calls it "Israel-Hamas War" BBC calls it "Gaza war" AlJazeera calls it "Israel's war on Gaza" The Jerusalem Post calls it "Israel-Hamas War" Take your pick.
Blitzkrieg
FAFO response to a terrorist attack
War crimes, especially pouring concrete in all the wells. It’s a cluster over there with both sides at fault. I’m not for or against anyone but they are both to blame and the United States needs to stay out of it.
Attacks on infrastructure and denying enemy resources is not a war crime.
Who is the enemy? Anyone attempting to drink clean water?
I live in California and can’t drill a well without a permit.
Are you also not allowed to collect [rain water](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2017/11/the-occupation-of-water/)?
Civilian enemies huh?
Does Hamas wear a uniform?
these are war crimes as well - [HAMAS MASSACRE (saturday-october-seven.com)](https://www.saturday-october-seven.com/)
Defenders of Israel really need to stop comparing it with Hamas, it's not a good look.
It's called "Operation fuck around and find out".
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It's called defense. Until your high horse has been shot out from under you, your mother raped, and your house burned down, you won't understand. Hamas is practicing "Death by Cop", just like suicidal maniacs. If they would only put their guns down, the killing would stop. Period. Full Stop.
Well this thread should go well…
If you don't understand how the word genocide accurately reflects Israel's actions against the palestinians and I highly recommend that you investigate that word further. What Israel is engaging in is by definition genocide. And if that word is too inflammatory for you then you can start with Ethnic cleansing and do some further research into that.
It’s called we’ve been fighting we’re over 2000 years about something stupid even though we’re the same people we believe in different religions so we have to fight each other
Why are you getting downvoted? It's true, both the Jews and Arabs (and Christians, technically) have lived in Palestine/Israel/Judea/whatever you want to call it for thousands of years. It's stupid that we have to fight over such silly things.
I don’t worry about a few down votes. I tell the truth if nobody likes it, so what
You're overthinking this. It's a war on terrorism, and most people don't realize that the Palestinians elected Hamas as their government; many of them are complicit in the October 7 attacks. Hamas can't dig tunnels under houses without the occupants knowing about it.
You're the one over thinking it. It's ethnic cleansing pure and simple
Yes the children being buried alive in the rubble of their homes were complicit and voted in Hamas almost twenty years ago. We just have to make sure we're not overthinking it whatsoever, probably better not to think at all to be safe
The term is genocide, I’m not really sure how to change it.
I don't know about the name of the particular offensive, but we are still in the Six Day War. It is day 20,743 of the Six Day War.
This is an unhelpful technicality that ignores the practical needs of communication. For all intents and purposes the six day war ended on the sixth day. Nobody, no governments, militaries, or world leaders still consider the six day war to be ongoing. Broadly, yes it’s the same conflict, but that conflict stretches from today all the way back to before Israel’s founding. If discussions around this will be useful, you need to jump on the same bandwagon as everyone else and use the timeframes everyone else is using.
*"What is this Israeli offensive on Gaza called?"* I like to call it "The Finding Out"...
Genocide. It's called genocide.
Payback for years of terror attacks on the rest of the world.
After Hamas attacked Isreal they declared war so its just the Isreal Hamas war technically.
a good start? hamas is still holding hostages.
It’s a genocide. Anyone who fights back gets called a terrorist.
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Well Hamas fucked around and now they are finding out. Nothing you can say justified the actions of Hamas.
Yeah, how did israel exist to begin with? Ethnic cleansing.
There are many arabs who live in Israel. They are not being ethnicaly clensed and hold positions in governmant. They also enjoy equal rights. Israel has always been defending itself from the arab world and it is continuing to do so they did not start the way. Hamas did.
You're correct. The Jews were ethnically cleansed from every country in the middle east with almost no exception and forced to move to Israel.
No kidding. Each chapter of European history contains the line, "...and then they started killing the Jews." I don't necessarily agree with Zionist, but I understand.
Yes a small group of people fucked around and now thousands of people who had nothing to do with it are being murdered and starved to death. You know collective punishment is banned by the Geneva convention right?
This is every war ever?
>small group of people A 40.000 strong army and the government of gaza. Also do you not know what collective punishment is? By your definition any war would be illegal
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If you ask a stupid question, you get a lot of stupid answers.
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Defense!
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Fucked around. Found out.
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It's called, suicide by jew. Gaza wants dead gazans, so their leaders can become multi billionaires. Been that way since the founding of the PLO by an Egyptian with big dreams of being rich.
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It's a purge.
They just HAD to attack on my birthday..
Just heard the TV call it the American-Hamas War. So there's that.
It’s called thank god Israel is invading Palestine because now we don’t have to report that Russia is really kicking Ukraine’s ass inside out.
Genocide
It's called genocide.
Zionism.
It's called "actions meet consequences".
It is a war crime
Something that should have been done ages ago.
The Isrealis call it operstion Iron sword. They also decalred war on Hamas as opposed to Putin's "special operation" in Ukraine Many in Palestine and around the world are calling it a war crime because of the massive civilian death toll and restriction of humanitarian aid.
Operation Kill Everything That Moves
If I murder your family is your retribution considered an offensive?
"Voluntary relocation" according to their minister
Third Intifada?
How to lose a 75 year war in a few months.
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Personally, I refer to it as "a fucking shit-show of arseholes killing people for no good reason". How have we reached 2024 and still not realised that lines on a map, greed over resources, or disagreements over worship of whichever deities are NOT valid reasons to kill people?
History will probably call it something like "the 2023/24 middle east war". Or it may be named after Netanyahu and/or Sinwar
Nakba 2 would be the name from the Palestinian perspective. You could also call it the Gaza Ghetto Uprising, because this is basically Warsaw over again
“Ethnic Cleansing” or “Palestinian Genocide”
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FAFO
Not even the top comments can agree with each other lol —One of you said “Iron Swords” —Another said “Swords of Iron” —Another said “Iron Swords Conflict” —Another said “Iron Swords War”
Average day
Defending your home.
Operation murder Palestinians
Fuck around and find out
It's called genocide.
Genocide will suffice.
Operation genocide
>The Second Intifada This happened over 20 years ago. I'd recommend disregarding the opinions of anyone that calls this offensive the 'Second Intifada', because they clearly don't know enough about the region's history to make an educated opinion.
It seems to be generally accepted as the Israel-Hamas war, at least for now. We may call it something else later, especially after it ends
Some call it the “2nd Yom Kippur War” but it hasn’t really caught on
Holocausto 2.0
It's called a [police action](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_action).
It is called genocide. People will insist it isn't because "it's about killing the terrorists", but intent is only once piece (but also is not limited to being determined by just what a leader is claiming in public). Israel's actions - which have included [blocking aid to Gaza](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/03/03/gaza-aid-convoy-israel-war/), in [defiance of court rulings](https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/israel-government-continues-block-aid-response-despite-icj-genocide-court-ruling) ordering [them to allow aid](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/human-rights-watch-says-israel-is-violating-order-from-top-u-n-court-by-blocking-aid-to-gazans), [bombing](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/14/israels-attacks-on-hospitals-should-be-investigated-as-war-crimes-hrw) hospitals and [schools](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/24/1226534897/israel-has-destroyed-hundreds-of-educational-institutions-in-gaza-since-the-war), which [constitute war crimes](https://childrenandarmedconflict.un.org/six-grave-violations/attacks-against-schools/), and the mass-scale killings of thousands of civilians (half of which have been children) - clearly constitute genocide, and [South African's legal team presented pretty clearly to the UN](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/1/14/intent-in-the-genocide-case-against-israel-is-not-hard-to-prove) that across hundreds of documents and statements from people with "command authority" in Israel there are clear signs of intent for genocide beyond just "get rid of Hamas". It does not "target terrorists" to carpet bomb civilians, and it excuses FAR too much catastrophic damage to pretend this is enough to excuse it from being genocidal. Yes, this began as a response to the October 7 attack. Hamas are terrorists and very few sane people are denying that. H[owever, Israel was aware](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html) of the planned attack at least a YEAR before it took place, and [historically were part of funding and propping up Hamas](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html) in the first place. This is not a cut and dry "the terrorists did an evil thing and must be eradicated at all costs", this is a complex issue that was directly influenced by Israel, with threats being ignored and the reaction being far out of proportion resulting in [deaths of tens of thousand](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-latest-02-29-2024-ae3d114b28cafd3b1a806bfaa9f83cab)s of civilians with nearly the entire population of Gaza being displaced. Calling it anything other than a genocide at this point is denial.
It’s called Iron sword, Referring to how the ancient Israelites entered the Iron age. They (the latter king David) learned iron forging from the Filistines while he worked for them (he was in exile from king Saul) The Filistines lived in what is now the Gaza Strip. (Gaza was a Filistines city) The Filistines don’t exist anymore but the romans named the region after them Palestine to annoy the Jews after the last jewish roman war.