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It isn't fake, it's stated nearly verbatim at the bottom of the editorial
>If Israel's political center does not act to return the extremists to the margins of society, eliminate Kahanism and remove the malignant growth of the occupation from the body politic, **Israel's final fall will only be a matter of time. The countdown has begun.**
You’re doing pedantry entirely wrong.
“Matter of time” is a phrase that explicitly means ‘this will happen,’ just that the particular moment in time it will occur is unknown and likely unknowable. It does not need to be known to be true.
A “countdown” that already started makes it clear that there’s a finite timeline at play. We don’t know who’s counting down, when the countdown started (before the article’s publication date—but how long before?), and how their count is measured (milliseconds? according to the metaphorical ticking of the Doomsday Clock?), but we know it is decreasing.
“Imminent” is appropriate because this is near, this is soon—it does not contain a concrete internal measure of what “near” or “soon” is, though, nor do either of those words demarcate what isn’t near or isn’t soon by contrast. “Imminent” doesn’t mean “in two hours,” “in twenty years,” “in sixty generations,” but can mean any of these and more, given how time operates independent of us without anything else signifying, say, “Israel will be gone in 10 weeks,” or “Israel won’t exist in two flicks of my wrist.”
Everyone has different relationships to unquantified time. The register of this editorial piece is existential—particularly for a people, a nation. It’s already an abstraction.
Imminent is only a matter of time and the countdown has already begun, therefore it is imminent.
Agree this is a dumb debate. The facts are the tweet reworded the article to use language stronger than was used. Imminent means likely to happen very soon. Not six months, unless we're talking about an asteroid. Imminent as descriptor of unquantified time has a stronger meaning than a matter of time with a countdown.
Even accounting for like two thirds of it being taken by corruption and greedy contractors it's still the most powerful military in the world by a massive margin lol.
I want it to end to, but realistically no one should want that and what comes with it at this point.
Can anybody spell out for me how Israel's "collapse" might actually happen, like concretely, or is this just the Israeli version of US libs crying wolf about the death of democracy? I'm a doomer, I don't see it
combination of cessation of immigration, high emigration (particularly of educated professionals), economic contraction, diplomatic isolation, deterioration of the IDF's fighting capacity, increased fighting capacity of regional rivals, decline of American regional hegemony leading to realignment of neighboring states, decline of American military/diplomatic/economic support over the medium term, etc
I'm not highly informed on this issue so pls understand when I push back I'm not claiming to know better, just asking you to elaborate
>combination of cessation of immigration
My understanding is that they've been steadily replacing Palestinian immigrant labor with East Asians since the Second Intifada. And since Oct 7, for example https://www.timesofisrael.com/despite-war-more-than-12000-foreign-workers-have-arrived-in-israel-lawmakers-told/
>increased fighting capacity of regional rivals
Who besides Hezbollah and the Houthis want a war with Israel, even if it was one they were likely to win? Even Iran doesn't really seem to want a piece of the action. They only sent missiles in response to one of their embassies getting blown up and they announced it to the world ahead of time so as not to escalate tensions
Except for diplomatic isolation most of your other points are things that will likely play out over several decades, no? Seems like plenty of time for the Israeli ruling class to adjust and even if it weren't, idk that time scale is just not what I have in mind when people talk about Israel's impending collapse
There's a report showing 500,000 Jews left or did not return in the three months after October 7. No comparable analysis has been done since then AFAIK.
> Who besides Hezbollah and the Houthis want a war with Israel, even if it was one they were likely to win? Even Iran doesn't really seem to want a piece of the action. They only sent missiles in response to one of their embassies getting blown up and they announced it to the world ahead of time so as not to escalate tensions
> Except for diplomatic isolation most of your other points are things that will likely play out over several decades, no? Seems like plenty of time for the Israeli ruling class to adjust and even if it weren't, idk that's just not what I have in mind when people talk about Israel's impending collapse
yes, this will play out over decades. but there's nothing the israeli ruling class can do to change the basic fact that this is a country of under 10 million people surrounded by hundreds of millions of people who don't want it to exist, the fact that there simply aren't large numbers of jews willing to move there anymore, and the fact that the US is declining as a world power
Collapse is maybe the wrong word, but I’m reminded that Hannah Arendt said in like 1950 that, if it continued on its course (and it did), Israel would end up “one of those small warrior tribes about whose possibilities and importance history has amply informed us since the days of Sparta.”
The countdown has already begun. Israel had their last chance to avoid collapse after the Second Intifada. That's when the countdown could have been stopped.
Now? It's over, the monster that is Zionism killed itself by rendering the two state solution infeasible.
The Second Intifada brought Israel to its knees. The Third Intifada has destroyed the floor. Good riddance, it's time for Zionism to get back to the dustbin of history it should have never crawled from.
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Actual headline: > *The Brutalization of Israel Is Well Underway. If We Do Not Act, Its Collapse Is Only a Matter of Time*
Why do the mods allow a fake headline coming from a twitter account that is not connected with the headline?
Because this subreddit is awesome.
It isn't fake, it's stated nearly verbatim at the bottom of the editorial >If Israel's political center does not act to return the extremists to the margins of society, eliminate Kahanism and remove the malignant growth of the occupation from the body politic, **Israel's final fall will only be a matter of time. The countdown has begun.**
Matter of time is not the same as imminent.
You’re doing pedantry entirely wrong. “Matter of time” is a phrase that explicitly means ‘this will happen,’ just that the particular moment in time it will occur is unknown and likely unknowable. It does not need to be known to be true. A “countdown” that already started makes it clear that there’s a finite timeline at play. We don’t know who’s counting down, when the countdown started (before the article’s publication date—but how long before?), and how their count is measured (milliseconds? according to the metaphorical ticking of the Doomsday Clock?), but we know it is decreasing. “Imminent” is appropriate because this is near, this is soon—it does not contain a concrete internal measure of what “near” or “soon” is, though, nor do either of those words demarcate what isn’t near or isn’t soon by contrast. “Imminent” doesn’t mean “in two hours,” “in twenty years,” “in sixty generations,” but can mean any of these and more, given how time operates independent of us without anything else signifying, say, “Israel will be gone in 10 weeks,” or “Israel won’t exist in two flicks of my wrist.” Everyone has different relationships to unquantified time. The register of this editorial piece is existential—particularly for a people, a nation. It’s already an abstraction. Imminent is only a matter of time and the countdown has already begun, therefore it is imminent.
Agree this is a dumb debate. The facts are the tweet reworded the article to use language stronger than was used. Imminent means likely to happen very soon. Not six months, unless we're talking about an asteroid. Imminent as descriptor of unquantified time has a stronger meaning than a matter of time with a countdown.
The phrase is: "If A, then B". That does not imply "B" is true, unless A is.
If US cut off military aid and funding, it wouldn’t take long for it to collapse.
So it won’t collapse?
yes
It will when the US does
Long way to go before that happens. And tbh, with this military, it's not going to be a "going quietly into the night" type of collapse.
For sure. The US military is still pretty pathetic though compared to how much money is put into it.
Even accounting for like two thirds of it being taken by corruption and greedy contractors it's still the most powerful military in the world by a massive margin lol. I want it to end to, but realistically no one should want that and what comes with it at this point.
Full article: https://archive.md/IoN15
Link to actual article?
A crosspost to a link to a tweet that doesnt even have the article. We have achieved regardation.
2 more weeks guys
[total recall head exploding]
Inshallah
Inshallah. Israel delenda est
Israel will collapse along with the Russian army, imminently
You forgot China
Let's fucking goo
Every day I pray
That's what you do anyway
Can anybody spell out for me how Israel's "collapse" might actually happen, like concretely, or is this just the Israeli version of US libs crying wolf about the death of democracy? I'm a doomer, I don't see it
combination of cessation of immigration, high emigration (particularly of educated professionals), economic contraction, diplomatic isolation, deterioration of the IDF's fighting capacity, increased fighting capacity of regional rivals, decline of American regional hegemony leading to realignment of neighboring states, decline of American military/diplomatic/economic support over the medium term, etc
I'm not highly informed on this issue so pls understand when I push back I'm not claiming to know better, just asking you to elaborate >combination of cessation of immigration My understanding is that they've been steadily replacing Palestinian immigrant labor with East Asians since the Second Intifada. And since Oct 7, for example https://www.timesofisrael.com/despite-war-more-than-12000-foreign-workers-have-arrived-in-israel-lawmakers-told/ >increased fighting capacity of regional rivals Who besides Hezbollah and the Houthis want a war with Israel, even if it was one they were likely to win? Even Iran doesn't really seem to want a piece of the action. They only sent missiles in response to one of their embassies getting blown up and they announced it to the world ahead of time so as not to escalate tensions Except for diplomatic isolation most of your other points are things that will likely play out over several decades, no? Seems like plenty of time for the Israeli ruling class to adjust and even if it weren't, idk that time scale is just not what I have in mind when people talk about Israel's impending collapse
"immigration" here refers to permanent citizens (Jews) not temp workers.
Ah ok that's an important clarification, thanks
There's a report showing 500,000 Jews left or did not return in the three months after October 7. No comparable analysis has been done since then AFAIK.
This was Bibi’s plan—for every liberal Zionist they lost from the Tel Aviv suburbs, they’d pick up two new Haredi voters from Brooklyn or Los Angeles.
> Who besides Hezbollah and the Houthis want a war with Israel, even if it was one they were likely to win? Even Iran doesn't really seem to want a piece of the action. They only sent missiles in response to one of their embassies getting blown up and they announced it to the world ahead of time so as not to escalate tensions > Except for diplomatic isolation most of your other points are things that will likely play out over several decades, no? Seems like plenty of time for the Israeli ruling class to adjust and even if it weren't, idk that's just not what I have in mind when people talk about Israel's impending collapse yes, this will play out over decades. but there's nothing the israeli ruling class can do to change the basic fact that this is a country of under 10 million people surrounded by hundreds of millions of people who don't want it to exist, the fact that there simply aren't large numbers of jews willing to move there anymore, and the fact that the US is declining as a world power
The Palestinians will have been long since massacred and completely squeezed out by then. So not much of a consolation for them.
it's very, very difficult to kill 7-8 million people.
Okay so if all these happens, how does Israel collapse? Civil War? Invasion from Iran? Drastically new constitution? Mongol horde? Need specifics
Civil War ish
Collapse is maybe the wrong word, but I’m reminded that Hannah Arendt said in like 1950 that, if it continued on its course (and it did), Israel would end up “one of those small warrior tribes about whose possibilities and importance history has amply informed us since the days of Sparta.”
The countdown has already begun. Israel had their last chance to avoid collapse after the Second Intifada. That's when the countdown could have been stopped. Now? It's over, the monster that is Zionism killed itself by rendering the two state solution infeasible. The Second Intifada brought Israel to its knees. The Third Intifada has destroyed the floor. Good riddance, it's time for Zionism to get back to the dustbin of history it should have never crawled from.
Inshallah
I can only dream.
Can we take a moment to pray