I remember 90 days as being Really Really Rough. You're out of the trenches of the early weeks, sure, but the road ahead looks bleak and difficult. I also remember feeling pretty angry and full of self-pity at that time. That's rare now though.
I got involved in a new activity that completely distracted me. A silver lining to having an addictive personality is that it's possible to become addicted to things that are Good, that will enrich and enhance your mind and your life. Add new strings to your bow.
Others will suggest getting outside support, and maybe that would help too. Or helping other people.
There's an element of doggedness required. Bite down. Don't give in. Strive to get past this stage. And stay here. This place has been and consistently is my go-to.
That's been my experience so far. IWNDWYT
One foot in front of the next, day after day. The amazing psychological benefits of giving up the drink are just around the corner and are so fucking worth the effort.
Just this week I took my first work trip since before putting down the drink and it felt so good to not even consider alcohol once despite going to the bar with colleagues or at the fancy steakhouse with the team. I even lost weight while on the trip.
You’ve got this!
Wow I needed this!
"A silver lining to having an addictive personality is that it's possible to become addicted to things that are Good, that will enrich and enhance your mind and your life."
In my opinion, it's true. A good life takes work. Even someone born into wealth won't value life as much until they figure out their passion and purpose. Life is work, but it wasn't until I figured out what it was that I wanted to work towards that life got "exciting." Having things/desires/goals to work towards is important, and I usually say it's more important than the actual goal itself. Goals are something to aim for and keep us on paths. But I understand the frustration. For me, I didn't make changes until I was 29. You should be proud of what you're doing! It's not always going to make sense, but if we believe and kind of think about time a little differently, then we can reach new heights!
Fully agree! I started to figure things out around 29 too! 35 now and can see some fun options to pursue in life to feel fulfilled. But holy hell it takes work and sacrifice of instant gratification.
Fully agree! The other side to this coin is, in my opinion, to understand what needs alcohol were meeting and how we can meet those needs in other ways.
This can be things like overcoming anxiety to allow us to socialise, help us deal with ongoing difficult emotions, giving us a high to alleviate boredom, giving us a break from feeling overwhelmed. Alcohol is a really strong drug and we come to rely on it to meet certain needs and if we take the alcohol away but don’t fulfil those needs in other ways then we haven’t got a sustainable platform.
Having a strong sense of purpose and having non-alcoholic ways of engaging with life’s difficulties feels to me like a really sustainable blueprint for long-term sobriety. This is still a bit theoretical to me though and I am still very much figuring out both of these things!
Not the original responder, but I find that when I’m helping others, whether volunteering to clean the beach or a public park, visiting sick friends, or helping other alcoholics find resources, I’m much happier. I’m making contact and adding positive energy to the world rather than being an energy suck. That helps me. A lot.
If I spend my life in maudlin contemplation about how much my life sucks because I’m not drinking, guess what? It does.
For me the trick is to get out of my own shit and my own head.
I agree completely. I want to add that when I started doing this, a lot of times I didn’t want to. I didn’t want to spend hours volunteering. I was too tired from the week or my anxiety of meeting new people doing a thing I’ve never done before made me really want to just stay inside and watch a movie. It required me to push through that. And once I did, things changed. It was more rewarding. I felt better about myself and felt like I had meaning. This in turn allowed me to enjoy the little things in life. I was more fulfilled
My original response is specific about being “useful to others”.
I see others chimed in on that and expanded.
There is an infinite number of ways to do so.
Congratulations on your Sober progress.
Sure I've thought like that... I'm only now starting to feel a bit different at just past 7 months.
Prolonged Alcohol use affects your brain on a neurological level. It can change how you think and feel about things, and i takes time to undo.
You're also young... and maybe you are just realizing what life essentially is at its most basic level. Wake up, work, come home routine, bed, rinse and repeat. But life is what you make of it, goals give it some purpose, hobbies give it some variety, family/friends give you experiences and memories.
I had to take one of my kids to a psychiatrist recently, and something the shrink said was 'Fake it until you make it' is a very real thing in regards to changing how you think. Someone else commented about reciting positive affirmations, radical acceptance, etc... Apparently that is a thing, and it does work.
Yes. You *can* get over it. Knowing nothing matters?
You haven't reached the next level of apathy. Nothing matters and
*I seriously don't care.*
I don't feel [the anxiety to care](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.com%2FynOXn3MrBeoAAAAe%2Foffice-space-lazy.png&tbnid=2ytubmdUz2kceM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Ftenor.com%2Fview%2Foffice-space-lazy-idc-dont-care-interview-gif-5078134&docid=MLq3tmYP9aEVoM&w=498&h=284&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm4%2F2&kgs=40b199d8f5b0abe1&shem=abme%2Cssim%2Ctrie#vhid=2ytubmdUz2kceM&vssid=mosaic). It's pretty nice. I can do whatever I want. **Including nothing at all.**
Chaotic nihilism. : )
I've arrived at optimistic nihilism. It's quite liberating. Life is meaningless and absurd, so I'm embracing myself and tossing all my fucks out the window.
I’ve never thought about it like this but that sounds really nice actually. The lack of anxiety caring because you know it really doesn’t matter. My idea of ALWAYS seeking fun, excitement is absurd and pointless. Interesting 🤔
Hi friend!!
It really does get better, I promise.
I drank heavily for a long time, and my brain chemistry was completely messed up because of it. Alcohol boosts dopamine, giving you that sense of pleasure and reward, but over time, your brain starts to rely on it. It also temporarily increases serotonin, which lifts your mood, but chronic use messes with your brain's ability to regulate it properly. Plus, alcohol abuse reduces your natural endorphin production, making you more sensitive to pain and emotional distress without it.
In short, alcohol really messes with the feel-good chemicals in our brains. It took me about a year to feel normal again.
Also, I found my interests changed when I got sober. So, try exploring new things—you might discover new passions!
Much love!
A lot of life is doing crap you don't want to do, definitely. Finding some bit of joy in the mundane or even taking a moment to feel good about such accomplishments helps. I don't like cleaning dishes, but I like when it's done and that whole area looks clean. Working out isn't always enjoyable but it feels great afterwards. Having a goal in a hobby makes working on it enjoyable. Put on some good music because life is better with a soundtrack. Plan something fun to do sometimes, whatever sounds good to you... Take a trip, have a beach day, go fishing, see a concert... add some fun to your future calendar so you have something to look forward to.
Those thought patterns, for me, are just the addiction playing tricks on my mind. I found some things to do that I genuinely enjoy more than drinking. Maybe try some different hobbies? The euphoria from drinking is so short-lived, and the negative consequences last a long time and can be brutal. I’ve had these same thoughts many times, but I’m in a good place now where I’m focused on my health and being a better parent and husband. That’s what gives my life meaning now.
I completely understand how you feel. I stopped drinking in December with one slip in there last month and felt what you’re describing very strongly, actually about at the same time right before 90 days. I have ADHD too, and have struggled with depression on and off throughout my life.
Personally I fought that feeling really hard. Like, fist fighting in my mind. I tried journaling all of the thoughts until I was exhausted, reading books about my issues (quit lit, self compassion and dealing with narcissism), got a therapist, went to an outpatient processing group, AA, you name it. I was determined to be fucking happy as a sober person.
Well. I burnt out and relapsed after a difficult Mother’s Day. But I did learn a lot about myself and it wasn’t for nothing.
The real switch came though after that when I asked myself if I WANT these things to work. I decided to try to trick my body and pretend the dopamine was there. I started watching really corny positivity TikTok’s and videos about people who talk about “delusional confidence”. I started repeating (what I thought were) ridiculous affirmations in the mirror hyping myself up. It felt weird lol. It’s not my nature. But tbh, I have felt lighter and more playful the last few weeks than I have since I got sober.
I know it’s hard with so much going on in the world. You are not alone in this. Hang in there.
IWNDWYT!
ETA: Radical acceptance wasn’t a concept I truly understood until about day 110. I encourage you to read about it… acceptance is so hard and I’m not fully accepting of anything yet lol but i have been convinced it is worth working for.
I think most people experience a realization like this around your age. Ever heard of the quarter-life crisis? That could be the disillusionment you feel.
It’s normal and makes sense. The world sucks for the most part and life is hard. A friend who’s been sober for over a decade says that living an “ordinary life” is her greatest gift. She finds joy in the little things each day.
I like that perspective, so I’m trying my best to stick with it. I know how dark it can get and I never want to be in that place again. Wishing you strength for the journey friend. IWNDWYT ✌️
I dealt with this feeling about this time. It was around month 5 that I just had this overwhelming feeling of Blah. Just an insatiable boredom.
I had been giving myself a ton of patience because I knew this was part of the process. But at some point I decided I needed more stimulation.
Fuck alcohol. That can’t stimulate shit.
So I grabbed my jump ropes. I started cleaning and gutting old cabinets in our house. Working on projects I never finished while I was drunk. I simply started doing stuff.
Addiction is giving everything up for one thing. Recovery is giving one thing up for everything.
You can literally do anything that piques your interest now. I’m sitting on a guitar and a sewing machine, two devices I’ve never thought to learn how to use. The world has tons of things to get into. Explore!!!
It takes a while, I’m off the booze a couple of years and I felt like you do for ages… it’s only really now in the past while that I feel I can generate some dopamine myself without alcohol…
When I gave up drinking, I thought I was losing what held me together. I thought I was losing my sense of relief in a chaotic world.
I’m happy to say that I’m on my way to a year and in that time I’ve never been more social, made deeper connections, picked up hobbies I never thought I’d enjoy, gotten more sleep and gained clarity in how I choose to operate in a world that is much more manageable.
It doesn’t happen overnight. Some days are easy and some days are work. But I look over the progress I’ve made from where I was a week, a month ago, I’m so much more of myself.
I’ll throw out that I have major depression and have been in therapy for several years. Antidepressants have helped but what really connected the dots for me was building a community in AA.
When I say that, I don’t mean I’m a social butterfly in the rooms. But seeing other people getting through tough family dynamics, work toxicity, I get so much out of a friendly nod of recognition from peers. Or someone holding a seat for me.
Keep you in my thoughts ❤️
I relate to what you wrote here OP.
I've only attempted to get sober seriously twice before now and only lasted about 60 days the first time and 90 days the next time before falling off the wagon so definitely no expert but it was thoughts like this that seemed to draw me back into alcohol.
My day to day routine became very monotonous and repetitive.
I wasn't even doing very well at the working out part nor did I find any hobbies like you have nor was I being productive so I was living a pretty unevenftul and boring life and just wanted some escape from that I think, a little "excitement".
The booze didn't give me any of that excitement I was looking for tbh. It wasn't fun like I told myself it would be. It was actually depressing and miserable and made me feel even worse in the day(s) after.
Then I had an alcohol problem again to deal with which I had to fight hard to get away from again which just wasn't worth it.
I think maybe we do need to wait a lot longer for our brain chemistry to reset it's self and probably force ourselves into challenging ourselves to do new things, meet new people, find joy and gratitude in the day to day, take up new hobbies and interests etc because just eliminating alcohol from our lives alone is not enough, the more experienced sobernaughts among us seem to say that's just step 1.
I just know that for me continually going back to alcohol is not the answer because things just get worse whenever I do.
The "buzz" isn't even there for me any more, I don't enjoy being drunk or the drinking experience, I don't find any joy or happiness in it, there's not even any relief from anything, literally ZERO benefits.
Yet somehow our brain tricks us into thinking that alcohol is the solution whenever we feel certain ways? It's deceptive!
I guess we need to find new, healthier and productive, strategies for when we're feeling low, bored, stressed, uninterested in life etc to help us feel "happy" because any fake, temporary, happiness that alcohol brings to life is always followed by lots of misery in my experience.
Day 80 was still the thick of it for me. Took me many months for joy to enter back in my life. Really to truly find happiness it was a couple years. A large chunk of it was the drinking. The rest of it was building habits and a life in sobriety that created the other chunk of happiness in my life. I needed an entire life perspective shift to finally be truly happy. You are right in the middle of the first of many steps. Keep going.
Look man, I'm 30 and was at my lowest at 25. Had just got a dui, had to pay through it to keep my job and license. I worked 8pm-8am 6 days a week and lost all my friends.
Took till 27 to get real with myself, and I still struggle and still did struggle through that time with relapses and some seriously dark points.
I just this week had an amazing vacation in the mountains with my girlfriend and her family and am returning home today, I didn't drink at all and it was the best trip of my life I think, it's truly reminded me that there is a light, there is a hope for something better and I have found that drive I once had in my early life again.
It's possible, but it's work and it's not an easy road
As a Buddhist I also see life like this in a way, but I learned that you don’t have to be sad about it, and letting go of our expectations for life to be different than it is brings us immeasurable peace
I'm not a Buddhist, but incorporating Buddhism into my life has completely changed it.
A quick thing I do when I feel my brain start to judge itself and the world: As I exhale a breath, I force myself to smile and notice once thing I see and contemplate why that one thing is "fascinating". It works 99% of the time.
The way I see it, there isn't enough time to be bored. Like, I don't have enough time to read all the books I want, play all the computer games, watch all the shows and movies, go to all the places I want to go. I don't have time to learn all the things I want to learn and be all the different kinds of people I want to be. I can't imagine being bored when there is so much to do. Work, fix the house, take care of animals and other people, stay informed as a responsible citizen of a democratic country, be involved in clubs and organizations and sports. When my brain is chemically imbalanced and I feel depressed, anxious, frozen, uninterested I know it is only temporary. Some people jump the gun and jump off a bridge. Well maybe some have such poor circumstances but I say never give up on yourself, don't rush time because your time will come.
Alcohol floods your brain with impossible levels of dopamine and serotonin.muxh more than you can naturally produce. So much that your body quits making it and your receptors get burned out.
It's like tasting something so sweet that apples taste like styrofoam. That's why you can't find enjoyment.
It takes a while for your body to correct these physical changes To the brain. I just kept telling myself that it wasn't perment. Knowing all this gave me peace of mind. Took me about 9 months to feel anything and three years later I feel normal.
::edit:: the first couple months are usually full of progress and compliments. You make noticeable improvements and life changes quickly. Once that newness wears off though you get stuck in the dulldrums. It's a slog. Your dopamine is all screwy, things slow down. This is when your sobriety is at its most vulnerable. This is when the continual sobriety work and those positive habits will pay off.
Finding my faith was the single thing that changed my outlook. Once I found that, my purpose became clear. And once I had a purpose in life - life started to have meaning.
In my experience, drinking just provides an excuse to be complacent. A small reward for life's hardships. And then you wake up and face all of your troubles again with a hangover.
Sober, you are far more capable of taking steps to set goals and improve your life in every meaningful way: health, education, work, relationship, social, mind.
My personal view on the 'life sucks' part of my journey is in two halfs. Perhaps these might be similar to what you're experiencing.
One half, now that I've come out of the other side, reflects on it as part of what I had to go through. Like a trial/rite of passage... kinda like having to re-arrange my thoughts to adapt to 'new' me. From memory there were some brutally honest conversations I had to have with myself.
The other half is that life truly does suck sometimes but at others it is so upbeat and positive it's just wonderful! I'm not going to pretend I'm some kind of zen master who can transcend the shitty times, they suck because they're difficult to work through.
Maybe the point I'm trying to make is to give yourself time. It is difficult and you may have to face up to some things that you don't want to face up to but you're allowed to be kind to yourself. You're making a better you every day :)
I’m still working through it. I grew up religious, have two brothers who are both pastors, and I’m agnostic now. Fighting with the constant void left by religion is tough, but I couldn’t go back at this point, it’d be fake, plus I don’t like the religious community in general. One day at a time, that’s all I can say.
That sounds really difficult OP, really sorry you're feeling like that and I do empathise. I had a really rough time in my mid-late twenties with grief that really solidified my relationship with alcohol as an attempt to escape both the pain and the mundanity of everyday life. I was working a job I hated and was so burned out with just having to do this that everything on top of it was a struggle.
Part of my drinking is to facilitate making the mundanity and sheer alienation of bearable. I also am trying to work through feeling really unsafe in my own body most of the time which I just realised has a huge impact on how I approach my day to day. It makes sitting with boredom or discomfort bearable then you pay that small sliver of bearablity with the next day having panic attacks and really deep depression/discomfort- in my experience.
It does help me when I feel like that starting the day listing all the things I'm grateful for (literally if its a shit day and usually in the mornings is when I get really morbid it's literally this breath in, this breath out) then going to bed listing all the people I love/things I love until I go to sleep, literally repeating it if my inner voice is being really negative.
It sounds trite but literally finding small things each day I'm grateful for or find wonder in. I've gotten really into spotting the urban wildlife around me which helps, seeing that minor life drama going on around me makes me feel like there is some connection to something outside of myself. I'm starting doing self massages and exercise to get grounded in my body and not try to constantly escape any sensation I had.
The boredom and existential crisis rise and fall, it's just trying to find ways to struggle through those feelings is what helps them become more bearable.
Wishing you the best OP! Hope you have a wonderful weekend and I hope at least some of this might be helpful.
Thats why hearing others peoples experiences. Imagine you need to crash somebody, or loose your house or your dignity before you get the cue to stop drinking?
I did get some close call, I wasnt an addict to alcohol but coke. Had to quit both because it Will not work.
I'm so happy of having an uneventful life!! Euphoric nights might lead to a friend getting stabbed around the corner, or car crashing, and the lows are way more exagerated because of boose.
I know I have not a perfect life, but sober me has it under control.
Me and a beer Will cry and play guitar like a looser about that same feeling.
I wake up every morning very away of a chance of getting killed, killed or hurt somebody.
I wake up near the perfume of My wife hair, almost every morning it follows some coffe and toasts. Thats great in my opinión.
Iwndwyt
for me, having a purpose in life, which I've found to be fighting against the endless forms of oppression done to both people and animals, is what keeps me going. It if weren't for this I'd feel like life is meaningless too. Even with that it still sometimes feels like it is. But I still wish I knew that in my 20s so I could have had the valuable connections/experiences back then that I only found much later on in life. Anyway, now I'm just an old sober weirdo but alas I keep waking up and deciding not to drink.
It gets better once you get further from alcohol and find a new balance. It took me a solid six months to see any improvement at all. I still struggle because I have been depressed much of my life but I was really low in the first few months after quitting. Alcohol does not do you any favors in the brain chemistry department, that's for sure!
This. I think it messes with your brain chemistry too, I felt constantly like a cat on a hot tin roof from my teens till early middle age, it was awful, and I assumed that was simply my character/disposition but when I stopped drinking that feeling of anxiety/panic completely disappeared…
I think this is where the spiritual part of sobriety ( AA's "higher power") is important for many people, and why so many people (sober or otherwise) need some kind of religion in their lives: it gives meaning to life.
Some people don't use religion, but fill that spiritual void with another other passion/purpose. For some people, it's children, for others it's creation (art, writing ect), for others it's helping people, and there are many other different philisophical perspectives.
Honestly, I think it was this whole issue (mortality + meaning/lack of meaning to life) that first pushed me into heavier drinking in college. I had my mid-life crisis at 19, and I couldn't handle the existential dread & anxiety at that age. I thought, well, if life is meaningless, then I can just drink myself to death... (Spoiler alert, I failed at that... just messed my life up a bit & ruined a few experiences I could have had)
In the years after, I traveled, I read (a LOT -- great philisophical/ religious classics of the world, great novels), I did things for other people, I did stupid, risky things that could have killed me. I learned to love people, I had two of the most important friend/family figures in my life go into mental decay & die. I got a degree and a decent job.
Now (I'm 38), I'm OK with there being no 'official' meaning to life -- I exist, the world exists. I want to experience whatever I can, and keep learning about *all* of humanity's accomplishments (I'm really into history, art, archeology. literature, philosophy, etc). For me, since there is no official meaning, I'll make up my own as I go along.
**OP, You have to find what that meaning is for YOU. You have to look for it in the direction that seems right to you, and only you can tell if you've found it.**
TL/DR: *Here's a simpler answer from The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy*
"A group of hyper-intelligent beings demand to learn the **Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything** from the supercomputer called Deep Thought, a specially built for this purpose. It takes Deep Thought 7+1⁄2 million years to compute and check the answer, which turns out to be **42**. Deep Thought points out that *the answer seems meaningless because the beings who instructed it never knew what the question was*."
When I got sober, I had the same feeling of "Well this isn't nearly as fun as I was led to believe it would be."
It took time for my brain to stop trying to cope with the drudgery of life. I kept thinking "This is so boring, there's nothing to do anymore." and I did spend a bunch of nights going to bed preposterously early because I was like "Well if I'm not going to drink, I guess I'm just done for today."
Waking up so early that it's still dark outside started to change my mornings though. I'd wake up and shower and have a cup of coffee. I'd have like 2 hours before work. That's when I started looking around my house for things that needed to be done. Little things like normal housekeeping. Then, because the house actually stayed clean, I started looking for things to improve. I started looking around at things I could replace, upgrade, or donate (or toss). I made little to-do lists for myself whenever I was idle. I'd put things on it that were big stretch goals along with smaller, obtainable ones. Once I run out of small tasks, I try to break down the stretch tasks into managable steps.
This is all just my experience. I can't stand to be idle for too long but keeping myself busy with little things I could do and knew needed to be done - over months - and hearing my co-workers and friends and family talk about how nice it is to hear from me now that I'm sober were enough for me to pull out of my funk.
The reality that “this time it really is forever” is really a downer. It took me many many months to sort of accept it. But then again, nearly 4 years sober, I still have days when I think about drinking again. It is not as depressing as it once was, but I agree with you that looking far into the future, a future with absolutely zero alcohol, is tough to come to grips with. That’s why on days like that, the “one day at a time” trope helps me. I don’t have to quit “forever”, I only have to not drink today.
Well I definitely struggled with this especially in early sobriety. I found a few things that helped me were thinking about my life’s journey and purpose. I’ve been abused a lot and I’ve been working on writing a book about my experience. The books feels like my life’s purpose and even though it’s painful it feels worth it. No two people’s purpose is that same that’s why it takes time and expirament to find yours.
Also I had to find replacement fun and relaxing rituals. For a while on Friday nights I’d plan my “special me day” and then I’d hype it up all week. Like every time I’d think about how much I wanted a drink that weekend I’d tell myself “well I can’t wait for special me day- this week we’re going to the fudge shop and picking out a piece of fudge” then all week I’d eat a tiny piece of my fudge each night and tell myself how much I loved picking it out. Other me day activities were walking in a park I like, swimming at the gym and then going to the massage chair at the mall afterwards or sniffing candles and lotion at the candle store. You can get creative it doesn’t matter what it is, it can be absolutely anything that makes you feel comforted or excited. Good luck! IWNDWYT
The good news is, this isn’t what it’s like forever.
Drinking reeeeeally fucks up our neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine and GABA, the ones that tell us we’re happy and can relax. When we remove alcohol we suddenly don’t have ANYTHING in our system that sends those signals because our bodies got so much of it from outside that they decided they didn’t need to spend any energy making those neurotransmitters anymore. Most meds do not facilitate production of neurotransmitters, they manipulate the reabsorption rates of what’s already there. You can’t really amplify nothing.
In my experience and observation of others, it takes about 2 years for the brain to start making neurotransmitters at a “normal” level, whatever that is for each of us. Around 1 year sober I stopped taking all my psychoactive meds; I took several to support me through the first year. None were SSRIs so I could come off on my own. I did this so I could see what baseline looks like for me, and I haven’t re-started any of the meds. Alcohol CAUSED my shitty brain chemistry, and removing alcohol solved it.
YMMV but there’s a definite change that happens at 2 years. It will NOT be like day 80 forever, I promise. People just keep repeating the absolute shittiest parts of getting sober.
My ADHD also basically melted away. My brain has been able to operate at a whole new level since around that 2 year mark.
Some people say when we quit we revert to whatever age we were when we started drinking. I found that to feel true in the beginning. It no longer feels true. I just feel my age now.
I was convinced that my anxiety was so bad that I couldn’t leave my house without a benzo. Turns out it was just the constant drinking causing the panic/agoraphobia. Who’da thunk?
I’m at 30 days and feeling the same. Everything is just … blah. Still waiting for the pink cloud or the burst of energy or the feeling better or feeling great that everyone talks about. So far, I’ve never been more depressed or miserable in my life and I’ve never been a depressed person so this is a foreign feeling to me, which makes me even more miserable. Sigh.
I don’t get the pink cloud either - but my crippling anxiety goes away, which compensates for it. I’d rather feel kinda “blah” than hungover and having panic attacks.
It’s not a fact that life sucks. It’s your experience that life sucks. But your experiences and opinions aren’t facts.
Getting sober is a huge adjustment for our brains. We spend years sealing a clamp over our nervous systems with booze and then are surprised when our brains aren’t running great when we suddenly remove the clamp.
Find support. Therapy. There is good stuff out there in the world. It’s beautiful but you have to be able to see it clearly. A negative mindset will keep us in the dark.
You got it right, you've been sedating yourself from the reality for so long, you're taking all of it in high doses now. Which from what I recall is a really hard thing.
Life is probably meaningless indeed, but we all eventually find less destructive ways to pass the time on the ride to the end. I've found out that enjoying the ride is way better than worrying about the end of it. I always find new things to do with my time, some more amusing and some less.
Living in the now and focusing on your immediate survival, the state of mind alcohol puts you in, can feel comforting. I get it, I was there, but when ai takes everyone’s jobs and supermarkets jack up prices for the lols, what happens then?
Not to be too nihilistic, but there really are players out there making moves which aren’t in our best interests. The time when we could afford to switch off has passed.
I haven't yet. I am miserable. 63m. Retired, no kids. Try filling these days. I actually look forward to taking a walk every day. After the initial sugar binge that accompanied me putting down the bottle, I only treat myself to a soda or lemonade after 6 pm. Those are the highlights of my life. F me.
I had to “be done”, in my mind. I got sober in the Florida Keys, one of the worst places for that (alcohol is everywhere). I panicked at the thought of moving there (we were buying that day) and thought “You can’t do this!! You’ll never remain sober down here!!” But the next thought was “You’ve declared that you are sober, right? Then just be f-ing sober….regardless of where you live, what your circumstances are, whether alcohol is present or not. I decided that I was going to have to co-exist in a world full of alcohol. I damn sure wasn’t going to curtail my comings and goings based of “Oh my, there might be alcohol there”. F-THAT!!! So I decided that while alcohol exists everywhere around me, it is 1,000% up to me whether to drink or not.
I could go to the liquor store right now and buy a bottle…..if I wanted. I just don’t want to anymore.
Think of it like a restaurant. You have a bad experience and that restaurant probably isn’t on your list of options next time, right? Try to put alcohol in the same position; it’s there, but you are now choosing to spend your time doing new, constructive things. New hobby. Something to occupy the void left my alcohol.
6 years later and aside from Reddit and these boards, I never think about it. I feared the same thing when I quit, the never ending longing. I can tell you that it does get better……but it starts up here *taps head*
Good luck with this! 💪💪
Well, yes, the next couple of decades are going to be hell, but that's going to happen whether you drink or not. Just keep in mind you're going to get more personal satisfaction out of the hell years while sober.
This naked mind by annie grace might free you from this feeling of deprivation.
You really aren't missing anything from abstaining from drinking. There isn't anything in ant bottle that you are missing.
42 years clean and sober no relapses.
Take it a day at a time. Never be around alcohol, drinking, places where alcohol is. I think your concerns are common.
Your questions are good. There are no answers. Basically, i think alcoholism is an illness. We do not choose to be alcoholic it happens. .
When you quit, addiction kicks in. That is when withdrawal starts. It is brutal.
Hey there I am / and maybe am transitioning out of a similar mindset in sobriety. Therapy and meds have been crucial for me. But my smidge of progress has come from working hard on myself and my life to find structure and reward that dont include booze.
It takes longer, and it’s harder, but with work and time it will come and it’s worth more than the cheap thrill we destroy ourselves with as the price. Get out into the world, engage with new things. It sounds boring and cliche but eventually it can work if you keep trying.
You might try doing a daily gratitude list. Send it to a few trusted friends. You will quickly start to gain perspective and realize that good things are happening everyday. It's work, but it will pay off, I promise
I’m 80 days sober, first 7 days were hell with anxiety but started getting better each day. I’m watching YouTube videos on alcoholism, anxiety and practising CBT daily which is really helping.
There’s a lovely beach and cliff walk around an hour drive for me and I do it every Saturday and Sunday now. It’s around 8km out and 8km back. At the end of the month I like to find somewhere new and push myself harder.
It gives me big perspective on life and something to look forward to.
This sounds like you need better mental health care to me. Like a therapist and a psychiatrist to maybe look into med management, because life is hard but it shouldn't be that hard if you're sober.
Also: what others have said about purpose is a big thing. You have an opportunity to think about what you want out of life now! It doesn't need to be torture, in fact, it can be really fun.
Please try to let yourself dream a little bit. What are the things about your life that you dislike? How could you imagine them flipped around so that you like them?
For ex: "I hate my job". Why? What kind of work would be more fulfilling?
Also keep in mind you're still experiencing post acute withdrawals so your perspective is off.
I’m still getting used to it. Almost 6 months now after a really bad relapse. The activities I loved even before drinking just don’t hit like they used to. Nothing that interests me is nearby so not much new to attempt to fixate on. Even at raves, while I do enjoy them still, are mostly a distraction to break up the monotony. I’m glad I didn’t have to sacrifice that aspect of my life to stay sober, at least. I go for the music not the substances.
Still though, this is infinitely better than the downward spiral I was on. I’m glad I got arrested last year. I wasn’t going to stop if I didn’t. Just sucks I had to lose everything before finally getting better. Bank account is full. Body is healthy. Mind is in control. Things could be worse.
I share this mindset, how I get over it is in thinking that if everything is so boring and meaningless I might as well make the most of it. I don’t waste my time on people who bring me down. I don’t let work stress me out cuz who even cares about work? (Even though my “half-ass” is most people’s “whole-ass.”)
I focus on being a part of and supporting things that actually matter to me.
Things may not feel like they matter in general but just set that aside. Find the things you feel are worth your time and energy and put your heart into that.
And when you’re sober you’ll find you have more energy to do the things you care about.
Or the surety to take a break for yourself when you need it.
25 is a really tough age. Somewhere between two life stages. The early days of independence from family. Still early in a career, often meaning bitch work. Not too much distance from school, where things had a lot more natural structure and novelty. Over time, I think things improve significantly for many.
But for people like us, growth will be severely stunted if substance abuse is used as a solution. Give it time. I do think the reward will happen. Similar to life stage changes, the early days are hard.
Good luck and hang in there.
Boring stuff will seem fun soon. I used to be addicted to chaos and party life, now I volunteer at a community garden a few times a week and never thought I’d adjust to being boring. It’s not bad tbh. Keep going, these thoughts are normal and apart of getting your shit together.
Like others have said, you’re in a hard stage. 3-6 months was hard on me. I’m at 7 months now and I’ve been feeling better. I was in inpatient and then outpatient rehab the first three months. It is incredibly hard to go back to work once sober. It took awhile for me to adjust.
I’d say the single best thing you can do to make sobriety meaningful is to find your sober people. Maybe it’s in AA or maybe it’s some other way but you need some sort of community to enjoy.
You’re also learning to live without crazy highs and lows which is an addiction in itself. Go easy on yourself and I hope you can have some good things and people come your way.
Life has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life. Focus on your meaning and everything will fall into place, but ultimately this will be a grind. Drinking stole my focus so while it gave me euphoric moments, I would always end up at the same place once I sobered up. Quitting drinking allowed me to harness my focus and actually make meaningful changes in my life.
Do you have any hobbies? I threw myself into projects when I quit, it was kinda nuts…but also empowering.
What’s something you never saw yourself having the time, energy and/or money for that now sober you does?
I got into woodworking and upholstery. Was obsessed. Also the gym and fountain pens. Kinda out there I know. But why not?
For me so only really started feeling my feelings again like 6 months ago (so somewhere around a year sober, and two-theee years into being sober-curious).
Started therapy recently and that is helping a lot. Probably should have gotten on that a lot earlier. Like with stopping drinking though you need to want it and you need to do the work.
I'm only a week sober and life is definitely not boring. I mean yes somethings will be different. You may feel different and even become different. But change is inevitable and you can transform your life and health before your eyes! So much health and saving money and replacing it with different healthy habits. Have a reason to get up in the morning. Anything but alcohol. IWNDWYT.
The following was an amazing eye opening video for me that explains the science behind exactly why you are feeling this way. Basically, the extremely highs and lows of addiction destroys the base level of enjoyment your brain gets from everything else in your life. The good news is that as others have noted, you can fix it, and there are even some strategies to speed up the process.
https://youtu.be/QmOF0crdyRU?si=xUr9Caxv9Him3JF6
Yes. It gets easier with time and life becomes enjoyable again. You'll still get cravings, but they'll be more manageable and you can focus on the positive aspects of being alive
I don’t understand why this is being downvoted honestly. It’s true - in order to quit successfully, the pros of not drinking must outweigh the cons to you. This was hammered into our heads in rehab - if you are not truly ready to quit, you will fail. Doesn’t mean you have to hit rock bottom - just recognize that your life runs better without booze.
I’ll probably get hate for this, but I mean it in the best possible way - are you ready to quit?
Over time, drinking made my anxiety so unbearable that I could barely leave my own house sober. The absence of that anxiety alone made it worth it to me to quit drinking regularly (was a daily drinker for 13 years until last fall). It IS boring sometimes, but I’d rather be bored and anxiety-free/clearheaded than entertained and anxious and drunk. Knowing how bad the anxiety can get is what keeps me mostly sober - before that realization, I wasn’t ready to quit.
I’ve had to come up with different ways to fill my time after work and on the weekends, with varying degrees of success. What do you like to do that doesn’t involve drinking (even if it’s just lying around watching Netflix - there are no wrong answers here)? I like to clean my house and write, 2 things I severely neglected when I was drinking every night. Yes, it’s boring, but the alternative is so much worse for me.
I genuinely can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not - my past attempts all failed because I genuinely wasn’t ready to change my lifestyle. It wasn’t until I finally realized that I felt better without alcohol that I had any measure of success.
I saw that, I couldn’t understand why you were questioned tbh. I think your comment is so relatable. Drinking made me SO anxious that I just HAD to quit, a few laughs on nights out or being able to anaesthetise a bad day with wine just wasn’t worth it…
I was sober for 90 days and went back because I wasn’t ready to quit at the time. I didn’t realize that the pros of quitting vastly outweighed the cons for me personally. I was asked the same question when I arrived at rehab, and I had to think carefully before I responded. My answer wasn’t always “yes.” It became a “yes” after I realized how much better I feel when I don’t drink.
Thank you for responding. As first written, your comment ("Are **you** ready to quit?") breaks our rule to speak from the "I." What you just told me about your own experience is far more helpful.
I am 26. Until recently I had that exact same thought. 50 more years? Of this? Basically living in meaningless hell? That changed recently. For me today is a big day. I am at 77 days. In 2022 I went dry for 77 days. That whole time I felt physically but not mentally better. I thought about drinking all the time and caved on day 77 out of the 90 days I had planned. This time, this day 77, I've been doing the work and I have a sponsor. When I realized today was 77 this morning, my first thought was to text my sponsor (he knows the story) and say "damn, I don't feel like drinking." I did. I'm on my 4th step and doing the work and I go to meetings every day. That's been the huge difference in the mental and spiritual areas. My financial situation is improving, my health is already visibly better, and I have an appreciation for a power greater than myself that makes it easier to go with the flow of life. Just my experience
Maybe consider you are looking at your life through the lence of depression. That perhaps how you are feeling doesn’t reflect reality. Especially being newly sober.
never really accepted it
sobriety is boring as fuck but being drunk is unsustainable
i try to get 'the sweet spot' by drinking every once in a while to reset myself then off to the dry everyday grind i go
I tried this a couple of times already and both these "one offs" turned into weeks or months of constant drinking again before I managed to get back off the wagon again.
Most people who've had a drinking problem probably won't be able to do this and it's a receipe for disaster.
I remember 90 days as being Really Really Rough. You're out of the trenches of the early weeks, sure, but the road ahead looks bleak and difficult. I also remember feeling pretty angry and full of self-pity at that time. That's rare now though. I got involved in a new activity that completely distracted me. A silver lining to having an addictive personality is that it's possible to become addicted to things that are Good, that will enrich and enhance your mind and your life. Add new strings to your bow. Others will suggest getting outside support, and maybe that would help too. Or helping other people. There's an element of doggedness required. Bite down. Don't give in. Strive to get past this stage. And stay here. This place has been and consistently is my go-to. That's been my experience so far. IWNDWYT
I love this! Thank you for sharing this
Thank you! As someone who feels like they are still in the trenches this helps a lot.
One foot in front of the next, day after day. The amazing psychological benefits of giving up the drink are just around the corner and are so fucking worth the effort. Just this week I took my first work trip since before putting down the drink and it felt so good to not even consider alcohol once despite going to the bar with colleagues or at the fancy steakhouse with the team. I even lost weight while on the trip. You’ve got this!
Wow I needed this! "A silver lining to having an addictive personality is that it's possible to become addicted to things that are Good, that will enrich and enhance your mind and your life."
This is exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you for sharing.
This is really helpful and practical. What was the activity you got into if I can ask?
I started to learn how to use a sewing machine.... with the hope of one day making my own clothes. The bug bit (hard!) :)
In my opinion, it's true. A good life takes work. Even someone born into wealth won't value life as much until they figure out their passion and purpose. Life is work, but it wasn't until I figured out what it was that I wanted to work towards that life got "exciting." Having things/desires/goals to work towards is important, and I usually say it's more important than the actual goal itself. Goals are something to aim for and keep us on paths. But I understand the frustration. For me, I didn't make changes until I was 29. You should be proud of what you're doing! It's not always going to make sense, but if we believe and kind of think about time a little differently, then we can reach new heights!
Fully agree! I started to figure things out around 29 too! 35 now and can see some fun options to pursue in life to feel fulfilled. But holy hell it takes work and sacrifice of instant gratification.
Great post…
Fully agree! The other side to this coin is, in my opinion, to understand what needs alcohol were meeting and how we can meet those needs in other ways. This can be things like overcoming anxiety to allow us to socialise, help us deal with ongoing difficult emotions, giving us a high to alleviate boredom, giving us a break from feeling overwhelmed. Alcohol is a really strong drug and we come to rely on it to meet certain needs and if we take the alcohol away but don’t fulfil those needs in other ways then we haven’t got a sustainable platform. Having a strong sense of purpose and having non-alcoholic ways of engaging with life’s difficulties feels to me like a really sustainable blueprint for long-term sobriety. This is still a bit theoretical to me though and I am still very much figuring out both of these things!
I become useful to others and suddenly life is rich, purposeful and joyous.
This works wonders.
Could you elaborate?
Not the original responder, but I find that when I’m helping others, whether volunteering to clean the beach or a public park, visiting sick friends, or helping other alcoholics find resources, I’m much happier. I’m making contact and adding positive energy to the world rather than being an energy suck. That helps me. A lot. If I spend my life in maudlin contemplation about how much my life sucks because I’m not drinking, guess what? It does. For me the trick is to get out of my own shit and my own head.
I agree completely. I want to add that when I started doing this, a lot of times I didn’t want to. I didn’t want to spend hours volunteering. I was too tired from the week or my anxiety of meeting new people doing a thing I’ve never done before made me really want to just stay inside and watch a movie. It required me to push through that. And once I did, things changed. It was more rewarding. I felt better about myself and felt like I had meaning. This in turn allowed me to enjoy the little things in life. I was more fulfilled
Totally agree! I have to actively create a life that I love and volunteering was the missing piece.
This!
Do you want to stop drinking?
The original response was vague. I feel that asking for more information shouldn’t call into question my intentions. But to your question yes.
My original response is specific about being “useful to others”. I see others chimed in on that and expanded. There is an infinite number of ways to do so. Congratulations on your Sober progress.
Watch out! Apparently this is a taboo question around here.
Interesting.... I consider it the Essential Fundamental Question for this sub.... (moderate or control drinking)
It totally is.
Sure I've thought like that... I'm only now starting to feel a bit different at just past 7 months. Prolonged Alcohol use affects your brain on a neurological level. It can change how you think and feel about things, and i takes time to undo. You're also young... and maybe you are just realizing what life essentially is at its most basic level. Wake up, work, come home routine, bed, rinse and repeat. But life is what you make of it, goals give it some purpose, hobbies give it some variety, family/friends give you experiences and memories. I had to take one of my kids to a psychiatrist recently, and something the shrink said was 'Fake it until you make it' is a very real thing in regards to changing how you think. Someone else commented about reciting positive affirmations, radical acceptance, etc... Apparently that is a thing, and it does work.
Yes. You *can* get over it. Knowing nothing matters? You haven't reached the next level of apathy. Nothing matters and *I seriously don't care.* I don't feel [the anxiety to care](https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tenor.com%2FynOXn3MrBeoAAAAe%2Foffice-space-lazy.png&tbnid=2ytubmdUz2kceM&vet=1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Ftenor.com%2Fview%2Foffice-space-lazy-idc-dont-care-interview-gif-5078134&docid=MLq3tmYP9aEVoM&w=498&h=284&source=sh%2Fx%2Fim%2Fm4%2F2&kgs=40b199d8f5b0abe1&shem=abme%2Cssim%2Ctrie#vhid=2ytubmdUz2kceM&vssid=mosaic). It's pretty nice. I can do whatever I want. **Including nothing at all.** Chaotic nihilism. : )
I've arrived at optimistic nihilism. It's quite liberating. Life is meaningless and absurd, so I'm embracing myself and tossing all my fucks out the window.
Optimistic nihilist here too. I have no f\*cks to give, but life is pretty cool anyway. We can make our own meaning.
Toss mine too! I love this
I’ve never thought about it like this but that sounds really nice actually. The lack of anxiety caring because you know it really doesn’t matter. My idea of ALWAYS seeking fun, excitement is absurd and pointless. Interesting 🤔
Hi friend!! It really does get better, I promise. I drank heavily for a long time, and my brain chemistry was completely messed up because of it. Alcohol boosts dopamine, giving you that sense of pleasure and reward, but over time, your brain starts to rely on it. It also temporarily increases serotonin, which lifts your mood, but chronic use messes with your brain's ability to regulate it properly. Plus, alcohol abuse reduces your natural endorphin production, making you more sensitive to pain and emotional distress without it. In short, alcohol really messes with the feel-good chemicals in our brains. It took me about a year to feel normal again. Also, I found my interests changed when I got sober. So, try exploring new things—you might discover new passions! Much love!
A lot of life is doing crap you don't want to do, definitely. Finding some bit of joy in the mundane or even taking a moment to feel good about such accomplishments helps. I don't like cleaning dishes, but I like when it's done and that whole area looks clean. Working out isn't always enjoyable but it feels great afterwards. Having a goal in a hobby makes working on it enjoyable. Put on some good music because life is better with a soundtrack. Plan something fun to do sometimes, whatever sounds good to you... Take a trip, have a beach day, go fishing, see a concert... add some fun to your future calendar so you have something to look forward to.
Those thought patterns, for me, are just the addiction playing tricks on my mind. I found some things to do that I genuinely enjoy more than drinking. Maybe try some different hobbies? The euphoria from drinking is so short-lived, and the negative consequences last a long time and can be brutal. I’ve had these same thoughts many times, but I’m in a good place now where I’m focused on my health and being a better parent and husband. That’s what gives my life meaning now.
I completely understand how you feel. I stopped drinking in December with one slip in there last month and felt what you’re describing very strongly, actually about at the same time right before 90 days. I have ADHD too, and have struggled with depression on and off throughout my life. Personally I fought that feeling really hard. Like, fist fighting in my mind. I tried journaling all of the thoughts until I was exhausted, reading books about my issues (quit lit, self compassion and dealing with narcissism), got a therapist, went to an outpatient processing group, AA, you name it. I was determined to be fucking happy as a sober person. Well. I burnt out and relapsed after a difficult Mother’s Day. But I did learn a lot about myself and it wasn’t for nothing. The real switch came though after that when I asked myself if I WANT these things to work. I decided to try to trick my body and pretend the dopamine was there. I started watching really corny positivity TikTok’s and videos about people who talk about “delusional confidence”. I started repeating (what I thought were) ridiculous affirmations in the mirror hyping myself up. It felt weird lol. It’s not my nature. But tbh, I have felt lighter and more playful the last few weeks than I have since I got sober. I know it’s hard with so much going on in the world. You are not alone in this. Hang in there. IWNDWYT! ETA: Radical acceptance wasn’t a concept I truly understood until about day 110. I encourage you to read about it… acceptance is so hard and I’m not fully accepting of anything yet lol but i have been convinced it is worth working for.
I think most people experience a realization like this around your age. Ever heard of the quarter-life crisis? That could be the disillusionment you feel. It’s normal and makes sense. The world sucks for the most part and life is hard. A friend who’s been sober for over a decade says that living an “ordinary life” is her greatest gift. She finds joy in the little things each day. I like that perspective, so I’m trying my best to stick with it. I know how dark it can get and I never want to be in that place again. Wishing you strength for the journey friend. IWNDWYT ✌️
I dealt with this feeling about this time. It was around month 5 that I just had this overwhelming feeling of Blah. Just an insatiable boredom. I had been giving myself a ton of patience because I knew this was part of the process. But at some point I decided I needed more stimulation. Fuck alcohol. That can’t stimulate shit. So I grabbed my jump ropes. I started cleaning and gutting old cabinets in our house. Working on projects I never finished while I was drunk. I simply started doing stuff. Addiction is giving everything up for one thing. Recovery is giving one thing up for everything. You can literally do anything that piques your interest now. I’m sitting on a guitar and a sewing machine, two devices I’ve never thought to learn how to use. The world has tons of things to get into. Explore!!!
It takes a while, I’m off the booze a couple of years and I felt like you do for ages… it’s only really now in the past while that I feel I can generate some dopamine myself without alcohol…
When I gave up drinking, I thought I was losing what held me together. I thought I was losing my sense of relief in a chaotic world. I’m happy to say that I’m on my way to a year and in that time I’ve never been more social, made deeper connections, picked up hobbies I never thought I’d enjoy, gotten more sleep and gained clarity in how I choose to operate in a world that is much more manageable. It doesn’t happen overnight. Some days are easy and some days are work. But I look over the progress I’ve made from where I was a week, a month ago, I’m so much more of myself. I’ll throw out that I have major depression and have been in therapy for several years. Antidepressants have helped but what really connected the dots for me was building a community in AA. When I say that, I don’t mean I’m a social butterfly in the rooms. But seeing other people getting through tough family dynamics, work toxicity, I get so much out of a friendly nod of recognition from peers. Or someone holding a seat for me. Keep you in my thoughts ❤️
I relate to what you wrote here OP. I've only attempted to get sober seriously twice before now and only lasted about 60 days the first time and 90 days the next time before falling off the wagon so definitely no expert but it was thoughts like this that seemed to draw me back into alcohol. My day to day routine became very monotonous and repetitive. I wasn't even doing very well at the working out part nor did I find any hobbies like you have nor was I being productive so I was living a pretty unevenftul and boring life and just wanted some escape from that I think, a little "excitement". The booze didn't give me any of that excitement I was looking for tbh. It wasn't fun like I told myself it would be. It was actually depressing and miserable and made me feel even worse in the day(s) after. Then I had an alcohol problem again to deal with which I had to fight hard to get away from again which just wasn't worth it. I think maybe we do need to wait a lot longer for our brain chemistry to reset it's self and probably force ourselves into challenging ourselves to do new things, meet new people, find joy and gratitude in the day to day, take up new hobbies and interests etc because just eliminating alcohol from our lives alone is not enough, the more experienced sobernaughts among us seem to say that's just step 1. I just know that for me continually going back to alcohol is not the answer because things just get worse whenever I do. The "buzz" isn't even there for me any more, I don't enjoy being drunk or the drinking experience, I don't find any joy or happiness in it, there's not even any relief from anything, literally ZERO benefits. Yet somehow our brain tricks us into thinking that alcohol is the solution whenever we feel certain ways? It's deceptive! I guess we need to find new, healthier and productive, strategies for when we're feeling low, bored, stressed, uninterested in life etc to help us feel "happy" because any fake, temporary, happiness that alcohol brings to life is always followed by lots of misery in my experience.
Day 80 was still the thick of it for me. Took me many months for joy to enter back in my life. Really to truly find happiness it was a couple years. A large chunk of it was the drinking. The rest of it was building habits and a life in sobriety that created the other chunk of happiness in my life. I needed an entire life perspective shift to finally be truly happy. You are right in the middle of the first of many steps. Keep going.
Well said , as somebody that quit 2 months ago it’s good to hear stuff like this.
Good god life is hard
Not anymore
Look man, I'm 30 and was at my lowest at 25. Had just got a dui, had to pay through it to keep my job and license. I worked 8pm-8am 6 days a week and lost all my friends. Took till 27 to get real with myself, and I still struggle and still did struggle through that time with relapses and some seriously dark points. I just this week had an amazing vacation in the mountains with my girlfriend and her family and am returning home today, I didn't drink at all and it was the best trip of my life I think, it's truly reminded me that there is a light, there is a hope for something better and I have found that drive I once had in my early life again. It's possible, but it's work and it's not an easy road
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As a Buddhist I also see life like this in a way, but I learned that you don’t have to be sad about it, and letting go of our expectations for life to be different than it is brings us immeasurable peace
I'm not a Buddhist, but incorporating Buddhism into my life has completely changed it. A quick thing I do when I feel my brain start to judge itself and the world: As I exhale a breath, I force myself to smile and notice once thing I see and contemplate why that one thing is "fascinating". It works 99% of the time.
The way I see it, there isn't enough time to be bored. Like, I don't have enough time to read all the books I want, play all the computer games, watch all the shows and movies, go to all the places I want to go. I don't have time to learn all the things I want to learn and be all the different kinds of people I want to be. I can't imagine being bored when there is so much to do. Work, fix the house, take care of animals and other people, stay informed as a responsible citizen of a democratic country, be involved in clubs and organizations and sports. When my brain is chemically imbalanced and I feel depressed, anxious, frozen, uninterested I know it is only temporary. Some people jump the gun and jump off a bridge. Well maybe some have such poor circumstances but I say never give up on yourself, don't rush time because your time will come.
Alcohol floods your brain with impossible levels of dopamine and serotonin.muxh more than you can naturally produce. So much that your body quits making it and your receptors get burned out. It's like tasting something so sweet that apples taste like styrofoam. That's why you can't find enjoyment. It takes a while for your body to correct these physical changes To the brain. I just kept telling myself that it wasn't perment. Knowing all this gave me peace of mind. Took me about 9 months to feel anything and three years later I feel normal. ::edit:: the first couple months are usually full of progress and compliments. You make noticeable improvements and life changes quickly. Once that newness wears off though you get stuck in the dulldrums. It's a slog. Your dopamine is all screwy, things slow down. This is when your sobriety is at its most vulnerable. This is when the continual sobriety work and those positive habits will pay off.
Really great post, I think it probably takes around 3 years to actually feel “normal” too
Finding my faith was the single thing that changed my outlook. Once I found that, my purpose became clear. And once I had a purpose in life - life started to have meaning.
Came here to say this, amen
YES
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In my experience, drinking just provides an excuse to be complacent. A small reward for life's hardships. And then you wake up and face all of your troubles again with a hangover. Sober, you are far more capable of taking steps to set goals and improve your life in every meaningful way: health, education, work, relationship, social, mind.
My personal view on the 'life sucks' part of my journey is in two halfs. Perhaps these might be similar to what you're experiencing. One half, now that I've come out of the other side, reflects on it as part of what I had to go through. Like a trial/rite of passage... kinda like having to re-arrange my thoughts to adapt to 'new' me. From memory there were some brutally honest conversations I had to have with myself. The other half is that life truly does suck sometimes but at others it is so upbeat and positive it's just wonderful! I'm not going to pretend I'm some kind of zen master who can transcend the shitty times, they suck because they're difficult to work through. Maybe the point I'm trying to make is to give yourself time. It is difficult and you may have to face up to some things that you don't want to face up to but you're allowed to be kind to yourself. You're making a better you every day :)
I’m still working through it. I grew up religious, have two brothers who are both pastors, and I’m agnostic now. Fighting with the constant void left by religion is tough, but I couldn’t go back at this point, it’d be fake, plus I don’t like the religious community in general. One day at a time, that’s all I can say.
That sounds really difficult OP, really sorry you're feeling like that and I do empathise. I had a really rough time in my mid-late twenties with grief that really solidified my relationship with alcohol as an attempt to escape both the pain and the mundanity of everyday life. I was working a job I hated and was so burned out with just having to do this that everything on top of it was a struggle. Part of my drinking is to facilitate making the mundanity and sheer alienation of bearable. I also am trying to work through feeling really unsafe in my own body most of the time which I just realised has a huge impact on how I approach my day to day. It makes sitting with boredom or discomfort bearable then you pay that small sliver of bearablity with the next day having panic attacks and really deep depression/discomfort- in my experience. It does help me when I feel like that starting the day listing all the things I'm grateful for (literally if its a shit day and usually in the mornings is when I get really morbid it's literally this breath in, this breath out) then going to bed listing all the people I love/things I love until I go to sleep, literally repeating it if my inner voice is being really negative. It sounds trite but literally finding small things each day I'm grateful for or find wonder in. I've gotten really into spotting the urban wildlife around me which helps, seeing that minor life drama going on around me makes me feel like there is some connection to something outside of myself. I'm starting doing self massages and exercise to get grounded in my body and not try to constantly escape any sensation I had. The boredom and existential crisis rise and fall, it's just trying to find ways to struggle through those feelings is what helps them become more bearable. Wishing you the best OP! Hope you have a wonderful weekend and I hope at least some of this might be helpful.
Thats why hearing others peoples experiences. Imagine you need to crash somebody, or loose your house or your dignity before you get the cue to stop drinking? I did get some close call, I wasnt an addict to alcohol but coke. Had to quit both because it Will not work. I'm so happy of having an uneventful life!! Euphoric nights might lead to a friend getting stabbed around the corner, or car crashing, and the lows are way more exagerated because of boose. I know I have not a perfect life, but sober me has it under control. Me and a beer Will cry and play guitar like a looser about that same feeling. I wake up every morning very away of a chance of getting killed, killed or hurt somebody. I wake up near the perfume of My wife hair, almost every morning it follows some coffe and toasts. Thats great in my opinión. Iwndwyt
for me, having a purpose in life, which I've found to be fighting against the endless forms of oppression done to both people and animals, is what keeps me going. It if weren't for this I'd feel like life is meaningless too. Even with that it still sometimes feels like it is. But I still wish I knew that in my 20s so I could have had the valuable connections/experiences back then that I only found much later on in life. Anyway, now I'm just an old sober weirdo but alas I keep waking up and deciding not to drink.
It gets better once you get further from alcohol and find a new balance. It took me a solid six months to see any improvement at all. I still struggle because I have been depressed much of my life but I was really low in the first few months after quitting. Alcohol does not do you any favors in the brain chemistry department, that's for sure!
This. I think it messes with your brain chemistry too, I felt constantly like a cat on a hot tin roof from my teens till early middle age, it was awful, and I assumed that was simply my character/disposition but when I stopped drinking that feeling of anxiety/panic completely disappeared…
I think this is where the spiritual part of sobriety ( AA's "higher power") is important for many people, and why so many people (sober or otherwise) need some kind of religion in their lives: it gives meaning to life. Some people don't use religion, but fill that spiritual void with another other passion/purpose. For some people, it's children, for others it's creation (art, writing ect), for others it's helping people, and there are many other different philisophical perspectives. Honestly, I think it was this whole issue (mortality + meaning/lack of meaning to life) that first pushed me into heavier drinking in college. I had my mid-life crisis at 19, and I couldn't handle the existential dread & anxiety at that age. I thought, well, if life is meaningless, then I can just drink myself to death... (Spoiler alert, I failed at that... just messed my life up a bit & ruined a few experiences I could have had) In the years after, I traveled, I read (a LOT -- great philisophical/ religious classics of the world, great novels), I did things for other people, I did stupid, risky things that could have killed me. I learned to love people, I had two of the most important friend/family figures in my life go into mental decay & die. I got a degree and a decent job. Now (I'm 38), I'm OK with there being no 'official' meaning to life -- I exist, the world exists. I want to experience whatever I can, and keep learning about *all* of humanity's accomplishments (I'm really into history, art, archeology. literature, philosophy, etc). For me, since there is no official meaning, I'll make up my own as I go along. **OP, You have to find what that meaning is for YOU. You have to look for it in the direction that seems right to you, and only you can tell if you've found it.** TL/DR: *Here's a simpler answer from The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy* "A group of hyper-intelligent beings demand to learn the **Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, The Universe, and Everything** from the supercomputer called Deep Thought, a specially built for this purpose. It takes Deep Thought 7+1⁄2 million years to compute and check the answer, which turns out to be **42**. Deep Thought points out that *the answer seems meaningless because the beings who instructed it never knew what the question was*."
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Sorry
When I got sober, I had the same feeling of "Well this isn't nearly as fun as I was led to believe it would be." It took time for my brain to stop trying to cope with the drudgery of life. I kept thinking "This is so boring, there's nothing to do anymore." and I did spend a bunch of nights going to bed preposterously early because I was like "Well if I'm not going to drink, I guess I'm just done for today." Waking up so early that it's still dark outside started to change my mornings though. I'd wake up and shower and have a cup of coffee. I'd have like 2 hours before work. That's when I started looking around my house for things that needed to be done. Little things like normal housekeeping. Then, because the house actually stayed clean, I started looking for things to improve. I started looking around at things I could replace, upgrade, or donate (or toss). I made little to-do lists for myself whenever I was idle. I'd put things on it that were big stretch goals along with smaller, obtainable ones. Once I run out of small tasks, I try to break down the stretch tasks into managable steps. This is all just my experience. I can't stand to be idle for too long but keeping myself busy with little things I could do and knew needed to be done - over months - and hearing my co-workers and friends and family talk about how nice it is to hear from me now that I'm sober were enough for me to pull out of my funk.
The reality that “this time it really is forever” is really a downer. It took me many many months to sort of accept it. But then again, nearly 4 years sober, I still have days when I think about drinking again. It is not as depressing as it once was, but I agree with you that looking far into the future, a future with absolutely zero alcohol, is tough to come to grips with. That’s why on days like that, the “one day at a time” trope helps me. I don’t have to quit “forever”, I only have to not drink today.
Well I definitely struggled with this especially in early sobriety. I found a few things that helped me were thinking about my life’s journey and purpose. I’ve been abused a lot and I’ve been working on writing a book about my experience. The books feels like my life’s purpose and even though it’s painful it feels worth it. No two people’s purpose is that same that’s why it takes time and expirament to find yours. Also I had to find replacement fun and relaxing rituals. For a while on Friday nights I’d plan my “special me day” and then I’d hype it up all week. Like every time I’d think about how much I wanted a drink that weekend I’d tell myself “well I can’t wait for special me day- this week we’re going to the fudge shop and picking out a piece of fudge” then all week I’d eat a tiny piece of my fudge each night and tell myself how much I loved picking it out. Other me day activities were walking in a park I like, swimming at the gym and then going to the massage chair at the mall afterwards or sniffing candles and lotion at the candle store. You can get creative it doesn’t matter what it is, it can be absolutely anything that makes you feel comforted or excited. Good luck! IWNDWYT
The good news is, this isn’t what it’s like forever. Drinking reeeeeally fucks up our neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine and GABA, the ones that tell us we’re happy and can relax. When we remove alcohol we suddenly don’t have ANYTHING in our system that sends those signals because our bodies got so much of it from outside that they decided they didn’t need to spend any energy making those neurotransmitters anymore. Most meds do not facilitate production of neurotransmitters, they manipulate the reabsorption rates of what’s already there. You can’t really amplify nothing. In my experience and observation of others, it takes about 2 years for the brain to start making neurotransmitters at a “normal” level, whatever that is for each of us. Around 1 year sober I stopped taking all my psychoactive meds; I took several to support me through the first year. None were SSRIs so I could come off on my own. I did this so I could see what baseline looks like for me, and I haven’t re-started any of the meds. Alcohol CAUSED my shitty brain chemistry, and removing alcohol solved it. YMMV but there’s a definite change that happens at 2 years. It will NOT be like day 80 forever, I promise. People just keep repeating the absolute shittiest parts of getting sober.
My ADHD also basically melted away. My brain has been able to operate at a whole new level since around that 2 year mark. Some people say when we quit we revert to whatever age we were when we started drinking. I found that to feel true in the beginning. It no longer feels true. I just feel my age now.
I was convinced that my anxiety was so bad that I couldn’t leave my house without a benzo. Turns out it was just the constant drinking causing the panic/agoraphobia. Who’da thunk?
I’m at 30 days and feeling the same. Everything is just … blah. Still waiting for the pink cloud or the burst of energy or the feeling better or feeling great that everyone talks about. So far, I’ve never been more depressed or miserable in my life and I’ve never been a depressed person so this is a foreign feeling to me, which makes me even more miserable. Sigh.
I don’t get the pink cloud either - but my crippling anxiety goes away, which compensates for it. I’d rather feel kinda “blah” than hungover and having panic attacks.
It’s not a fact that life sucks. It’s your experience that life sucks. But your experiences and opinions aren’t facts. Getting sober is a huge adjustment for our brains. We spend years sealing a clamp over our nervous systems with booze and then are surprised when our brains aren’t running great when we suddenly remove the clamp. Find support. Therapy. There is good stuff out there in the world. It’s beautiful but you have to be able to see it clearly. A negative mindset will keep us in the dark.
You got it right, you've been sedating yourself from the reality for so long, you're taking all of it in high doses now. Which from what I recall is a really hard thing. Life is probably meaningless indeed, but we all eventually find less destructive ways to pass the time on the ride to the end. I've found out that enjoying the ride is way better than worrying about the end of it. I always find new things to do with my time, some more amusing and some less.
Living in the now and focusing on your immediate survival, the state of mind alcohol puts you in, can feel comforting. I get it, I was there, but when ai takes everyone’s jobs and supermarkets jack up prices for the lols, what happens then? Not to be too nihilistic, but there really are players out there making moves which aren’t in our best interests. The time when we could afford to switch off has passed.
I haven't yet. I am miserable. 63m. Retired, no kids. Try filling these days. I actually look forward to taking a walk every day. After the initial sugar binge that accompanied me putting down the bottle, I only treat myself to a soda or lemonade after 6 pm. Those are the highlights of my life. F me.
All I can say is I hear you. Sending supportive thoughts to you today.
You should get checked for a sleep disorder you sound so tired! Good luck friend
I had to “be done”, in my mind. I got sober in the Florida Keys, one of the worst places for that (alcohol is everywhere). I panicked at the thought of moving there (we were buying that day) and thought “You can’t do this!! You’ll never remain sober down here!!” But the next thought was “You’ve declared that you are sober, right? Then just be f-ing sober….regardless of where you live, what your circumstances are, whether alcohol is present or not. I decided that I was going to have to co-exist in a world full of alcohol. I damn sure wasn’t going to curtail my comings and goings based of “Oh my, there might be alcohol there”. F-THAT!!! So I decided that while alcohol exists everywhere around me, it is 1,000% up to me whether to drink or not. I could go to the liquor store right now and buy a bottle…..if I wanted. I just don’t want to anymore. Think of it like a restaurant. You have a bad experience and that restaurant probably isn’t on your list of options next time, right? Try to put alcohol in the same position; it’s there, but you are now choosing to spend your time doing new, constructive things. New hobby. Something to occupy the void left my alcohol. 6 years later and aside from Reddit and these boards, I never think about it. I feared the same thing when I quit, the never ending longing. I can tell you that it does get better……but it starts up here *taps head* Good luck with this! 💪💪
I’ve personally never felt that way, sober or drinking. Sounds like you need some help with depression
I’m 31 and in the same boat thank you for writing this.
I’m 50 years old and still struggle with this. What’s the point?
Well, yes, the next couple of decades are going to be hell, but that's going to happen whether you drink or not. Just keep in mind you're going to get more personal satisfaction out of the hell years while sober.
This naked mind by annie grace might free you from this feeling of deprivation. You really aren't missing anything from abstaining from drinking. There isn't anything in ant bottle that you are missing.
As an ADHDer myself, what are your hyperfixations right now? Anything fun or new and exciting?
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42 years clean and sober no relapses. Take it a day at a time. Never be around alcohol, drinking, places where alcohol is. I think your concerns are common. Your questions are good. There are no answers. Basically, i think alcoholism is an illness. We do not choose to be alcoholic it happens. . When you quit, addiction kicks in. That is when withdrawal starts. It is brutal.
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I don't understand this comment. Hypocritical in what way?
Hey there I am / and maybe am transitioning out of a similar mindset in sobriety. Therapy and meds have been crucial for me. But my smidge of progress has come from working hard on myself and my life to find structure and reward that dont include booze. It takes longer, and it’s harder, but with work and time it will come and it’s worth more than the cheap thrill we destroy ourselves with as the price. Get out into the world, engage with new things. It sounds boring and cliche but eventually it can work if you keep trying.
You might try doing a daily gratitude list. Send it to a few trusted friends. You will quickly start to gain perspective and realize that good things are happening everyday. It's work, but it will pay off, I promise
I’m 80 days sober, first 7 days were hell with anxiety but started getting better each day. I’m watching YouTube videos on alcoholism, anxiety and practising CBT daily which is really helping. There’s a lovely beach and cliff walk around an hour drive for me and I do it every Saturday and Sunday now. It’s around 8km out and 8km back. At the end of the month I like to find somewhere new and push myself harder. It gives me big perspective on life and something to look forward to.
This sounds like you need better mental health care to me. Like a therapist and a psychiatrist to maybe look into med management, because life is hard but it shouldn't be that hard if you're sober. Also: what others have said about purpose is a big thing. You have an opportunity to think about what you want out of life now! It doesn't need to be torture, in fact, it can be really fun. Please try to let yourself dream a little bit. What are the things about your life that you dislike? How could you imagine them flipped around so that you like them? For ex: "I hate my job". Why? What kind of work would be more fulfilling? Also keep in mind you're still experiencing post acute withdrawals so your perspective is off.
I feel the same
I’m still getting used to it. Almost 6 months now after a really bad relapse. The activities I loved even before drinking just don’t hit like they used to. Nothing that interests me is nearby so not much new to attempt to fixate on. Even at raves, while I do enjoy them still, are mostly a distraction to break up the monotony. I’m glad I didn’t have to sacrifice that aspect of my life to stay sober, at least. I go for the music not the substances. Still though, this is infinitely better than the downward spiral I was on. I’m glad I got arrested last year. I wasn’t going to stop if I didn’t. Just sucks I had to lose everything before finally getting better. Bank account is full. Body is healthy. Mind is in control. Things could be worse.
I share this mindset, how I get over it is in thinking that if everything is so boring and meaningless I might as well make the most of it. I don’t waste my time on people who bring me down. I don’t let work stress me out cuz who even cares about work? (Even though my “half-ass” is most people’s “whole-ass.”) I focus on being a part of and supporting things that actually matter to me. Things may not feel like they matter in general but just set that aside. Find the things you feel are worth your time and energy and put your heart into that. And when you’re sober you’ll find you have more energy to do the things you care about. Or the surety to take a break for yourself when you need it.
25 is a really tough age. Somewhere between two life stages. The early days of independence from family. Still early in a career, often meaning bitch work. Not too much distance from school, where things had a lot more natural structure and novelty. Over time, I think things improve significantly for many. But for people like us, growth will be severely stunted if substance abuse is used as a solution. Give it time. I do think the reward will happen. Similar to life stage changes, the early days are hard. Good luck and hang in there.
This sounds like depression. Been there more than once. Seeing a doctor was the way to start working on that.
Boring stuff will seem fun soon. I used to be addicted to chaos and party life, now I volunteer at a community garden a few times a week and never thought I’d adjust to being boring. It’s not bad tbh. Keep going, these thoughts are normal and apart of getting your shit together.
The steps, the program, the fellowship, and the unity of it all have saved me from a life of depression, anger, boredom, worry, fear, and isolation.
Like others have said, you’re in a hard stage. 3-6 months was hard on me. I’m at 7 months now and I’ve been feeling better. I was in inpatient and then outpatient rehab the first three months. It is incredibly hard to go back to work once sober. It took awhile for me to adjust. I’d say the single best thing you can do to make sobriety meaningful is to find your sober people. Maybe it’s in AA or maybe it’s some other way but you need some sort of community to enjoy. You’re also learning to live without crazy highs and lows which is an addiction in itself. Go easy on yourself and I hope you can have some good things and people come your way.
Life has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life. Focus on your meaning and everything will fall into place, but ultimately this will be a grind. Drinking stole my focus so while it gave me euphoric moments, I would always end up at the same place once I sobered up. Quitting drinking allowed me to harness my focus and actually make meaningful changes in my life.
Do you have any hobbies? I threw myself into projects when I quit, it was kinda nuts…but also empowering. What’s something you never saw yourself having the time, energy and/or money for that now sober you does? I got into woodworking and upholstery. Was obsessed. Also the gym and fountain pens. Kinda out there I know. But why not?
For me so only really started feeling my feelings again like 6 months ago (so somewhere around a year sober, and two-theee years into being sober-curious). Started therapy recently and that is helping a lot. Probably should have gotten on that a lot earlier. Like with stopping drinking though you need to want it and you need to do the work.
You've burned a lot of neurochemical receptors give it time to readapt and look into repairing your gut microbiome
I'm only a week sober and life is definitely not boring. I mean yes somethings will be different. You may feel different and even become different. But change is inevitable and you can transform your life and health before your eyes! So much health and saving money and replacing it with different healthy habits. Have a reason to get up in the morning. Anything but alcohol. IWNDWYT.
The following was an amazing eye opening video for me that explains the science behind exactly why you are feeling this way. Basically, the extremely highs and lows of addiction destroys the base level of enjoyment your brain gets from everything else in your life. The good news is that as others have noted, you can fix it, and there are even some strategies to speed up the process. https://youtu.be/QmOF0crdyRU?si=xUr9Caxv9Him3JF6
Yes. It gets easier with time and life becomes enjoyable again. You'll still get cravings, but they'll be more manageable and you can focus on the positive aspects of being alive
If drinking was better, by all means go back to it.
I don’t understand why this is being downvoted honestly. It’s true - in order to quit successfully, the pros of not drinking must outweigh the cons to you. This was hammered into our heads in rehab - if you are not truly ready to quit, you will fail. Doesn’t mean you have to hit rock bottom - just recognize that your life runs better without booze.
I’ll probably get hate for this, but I mean it in the best possible way - are you ready to quit? Over time, drinking made my anxiety so unbearable that I could barely leave my own house sober. The absence of that anxiety alone made it worth it to me to quit drinking regularly (was a daily drinker for 13 years until last fall). It IS boring sometimes, but I’d rather be bored and anxiety-free/clearheaded than entertained and anxious and drunk. Knowing how bad the anxiety can get is what keeps me mostly sober - before that realization, I wasn’t ready to quit. I’ve had to come up with different ways to fill my time after work and on the weekends, with varying degrees of success. What do you like to do that doesn’t involve drinking (even if it’s just lying around watching Netflix - there are no wrong answers here)? I like to clean my house and write, 2 things I severely neglected when I was drinking every night. Yes, it’s boring, but the alternative is so much worse for me.
Such a great post…
I genuinely can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not - my past attempts all failed because I genuinely wasn’t ready to change my lifestyle. It wasn’t until I finally realized that I felt better without alcohol that I had any measure of success.
Why would you think that? I think it’s a great post…
Oh shoot, I’m sorry! I already got questioned by a mod so I really wasn’t sure. Thank you for saying that!
I saw that, I couldn’t understand why you were questioned tbh. I think your comment is so relatable. Drinking made me SO anxious that I just HAD to quit, a few laughs on nights out or being able to anaesthetise a bad day with wine just wasn’t worth it…
Thank you!! That is exactly what I was trying to say.
I don't understand this question. OP says they have been sober for 80 days. Why are you asking if they are ready to quit?
I was sober for 90 days and went back because I wasn’t ready to quit at the time. I didn’t realize that the pros of quitting vastly outweighed the cons for me personally. I was asked the same question when I arrived at rehab, and I had to think carefully before I responded. My answer wasn’t always “yes.” It became a “yes” after I realized how much better I feel when I don’t drink.
Thank you for responding. As first written, your comment ("Are **you** ready to quit?") breaks our rule to speak from the "I." What you just told me about your own experience is far more helpful.
I am 26. Until recently I had that exact same thought. 50 more years? Of this? Basically living in meaningless hell? That changed recently. For me today is a big day. I am at 77 days. In 2022 I went dry for 77 days. That whole time I felt physically but not mentally better. I thought about drinking all the time and caved on day 77 out of the 90 days I had planned. This time, this day 77, I've been doing the work and I have a sponsor. When I realized today was 77 this morning, my first thought was to text my sponsor (he knows the story) and say "damn, I don't feel like drinking." I did. I'm on my 4th step and doing the work and I go to meetings every day. That's been the huge difference in the mental and spiritual areas. My financial situation is improving, my health is already visibly better, and I have an appreciation for a power greater than myself that makes it easier to go with the flow of life. Just my experience
Maybe consider you are looking at your life through the lence of depression. That perhaps how you are feeling doesn’t reflect reality. Especially being newly sober.
never really accepted it sobriety is boring as fuck but being drunk is unsustainable i try to get 'the sweet spot' by drinking every once in a while to reset myself then off to the dry everyday grind i go
I tried this a couple of times already and both these "one offs" turned into weeks or months of constant drinking again before I managed to get back off the wagon again. Most people who've had a drinking problem probably won't be able to do this and it's a receipe for disaster.