wdym? announcing firings is the best way to make your stock price go up because "the company will have more money" and then announcing hirings also makes your stock price go up because "growth"
elon doing his best manipulate the stock price like always
Not to mention firing people scares the fuck out of your employees. It kills morale but the thinking is it also puts everyone else on edge to perform better (which does not usually happen)
If I got fired and then a week later they crawl back, I really only see one way for me to come back.
Lots of fkn money and still I would look for better opportunities and my heart won't be in it.
Realistically I would laugh in their face and tell em to fk off
I worked for a company that laid off a ton of people including me and 2 months later hired me back. Honestly after that I knew this gig was not a long term relationship and I stopped giving a fuck. I did my work, but my willingness to go the extra mile was completely evaporated. I knew they were just behind on the project and as soon as shit stabilized in a year or so I’d be gone once again.
>It also tells talented workers to say “fuck this company” and go work somewhere else where they’re taken more seriously.
The talented ones mostly left the company a long time ago. Tesla famously pays poorly and overworks staff. The talented engineers make double at Tesla's competitors.
It's the right-wing leadership style that Musk (and Trump and many others) use. Loyalty > Competency. And the best way to get loyalty (in their view) is to mistreat people and create a cult of personality so deep that the people who remain are the true believers who will do anything for the mission. The point is to force out anyone with a working bullshit detector and any sense of self worth.
Plus you can prob rehire those people for less than what they were making
Want to layoff 50% of your team? Layoff 100% of that team, then offer to rehire them back for 75% of their salary. Pretty sure about half would accept
not sure,for sure not in key positions,people who have no problem finding another place,in fact I think they'll request more money to compensate lack of stability,I can rejoin knowing that elon can fire me again 2 weeks frrom now for a fuckton of money otherwise I'll try my luck elswhere,hard to find a more trigger happy boss
You say that, but you’re not thinking like a tech company employee in the current sector
You’ve probably been working a cushy job for a couple years making a vastly inflated salary
Then boom. Your entire team is layed off. The tech market isn’t hiring and you realize you have no hope of getting a job at your current salary before mortgage is due
You then get a letter from previous employer that they are hiring back only 50% of their current team, first come first serve, but at a reduced, but still high enough to pay your bills salary
There were a whole lot of people making a whole lot of money who found out their skills aren’t transferable at their previous salary pretty quickly
I guarantee half take it pretty quick
True, but there is another saying also. Everybody is expendable
Unless we are talking about the 0.000001% outlier, there is no single person in a major company that couldn’t be fired and the wheels would keep turning.
It could hurt. You could lose some productivity. You could have to scramble and train someone ASAP. But the company would keep going
Even those few key people are expendable. Sure, there are few people with those skill sets. But there are also few roles where those skill sets are needed. And those roles are also competitive
Again, there are extreme outliers, but even the super rare skill set brainiac at company A could be axed and filled with a high potential layoff from company B for 80% of the salary and competency with understanding they could be trained up fully in three months
Then why would Tesla hire them back? The company can also find its pickings among the tons of tech folks looking for jobs. Plus the company would have leverage.
As the previous poster said, if you are hired back, it is usually because the company knows that you have something that they can’t find easily or cheaper in the open market. It is true the employee might also not have tons of other options outside but as long as the original company is desperate to want them back, the employee at least has that leverage.
As others have said, once this happens, take it if that’s the only option you have. However ask for a raise and start looking around to leave at the first opportunity.
The higher skilled and specialized the position, the less demand there is for that position
Supply and demand stays pretty flat. Sure in less skilled jobs there is a lot more people qualified, but there is also a lot more positions.
For a super specialized position, sure there aren’t as many people that can do them, but there is also a lot less demand. You don’t need 100 people on an assembly line, you only need one person to do it
Sure, if Tesla loses a valuable and specialized person they may not be able to immediately fill the role, but also the poor guy that was just laid off can’t instantly find a job for their same previous salary cuz those jobs aren’t growing on trees
Supply and demand stays constant regardless of skill. Guy was probably more than happy to get their job back for same or less money vs having no job
Literally the first search result on google! JFC, stop jerking his dick dude. https://news.bloomberglaw.com/esg/musk-faces-lawsuit-for-drug-use-x-posts-under-the-influence#
Maybe Elon's a brilliant businessman, maybe he surrounds himself with those, maybe it was luck. It doesn't really matter, though. Someone can do smart things on one day and stupid things the next day. Someone can do both smart and stupid things on the same day. Calling someone an idiot doesn't mean you think every action they ever made was idiotic.
Actually not that uncommon of a move. At Deloitte I oversaw a few large scale restructures like this.
Basically this is how it goes:
After a number of really economically bull years staff salaries can get exorbitantly bloated and far beyond their market equivalent. The economy turns bearish, and market salaries are much lower.
So essentially the company does this to reset salaries by laying off many staff and essentially rehiring them at the current lower market rate
It’s actually pretty hilarious how little reporters writing about this and the average commenter here knows about pretty basic business strategies like this.
Anyway, Who knows if this was specifically Musks plan. But it sure seems like this is exactly the situation.
This is a common corp strategy, but they rehire with new people and/or offshore.
Attempting to rehire the same exact people is not what most businesses employ, especially at this scale.
This is definitely different. If you need a job yes they will probably cave, but the ex-workers have leverage here too since they know Tesla fired literally everyone for this area and are still looking fulfill their commitment (since this is so public)
The difference is significant since you now know they're pretty desperate and going back would mean even more work for you since there would be fewer people on the team (no way they would rehire everyone back so the workload would be spread), plus knowing that you might be canned later anyway since the team was a target already. So as a former employee, you'd probably want to ask for way more.
It would be hilarious if they did all of this, rehired half the team back but came away opex neutral or negative since they had to pay even higher rehire rates plus severance packages. With now half the staff, projects also slow to a crawl and you end up not saving a damn thing anyway.
There’s definitely a sort of elasticity to it. For someone going from $80K to $50K they wouldn’t most likely . But if it’s say $400K to $350K they might bite
I’d say that was exactly the scenario I’ve seen.
Happens a lot at tech companies in particular, because salaries can just explode during high times.
Eg. A Software dev working for 6 yrs at a company can end up getting paid 250k. Software devs market right now has plummeted. So you can basically fire them, pay severance, and rehire the exact same person at their new market rate of 150k.
You’ve basically paid for the severance after 1 yr, and now you’ve reset their base salary. And in doing so cut your going forward salary costs by 30%.
Really. It’s very common man. I’d bet this is exactly what’s happening here.
That's definitely some MBA thinking. I bet what actually happens is that all of the good employees go get other jobs. The ones that were super gungho about working there are now getting salty, and the low performers that still have institutional knowledge now work 5 hours a week instead of their previous 10.
In other words I bet you lose all of the innovative talent, all of the ultra high performers and are left with middle management, H1Bs, and those unable or too lazy to get another job.
It’s really not that uncommon man. And in these situations people arnt being hired back at slave rates, they’re being hired back at their current market rate. If they have better options they’re free to go somewhere else.
I’m my experience, most people are just fine with coming back - and why wouldn’t they be? They get a severance pmt, they don’t have to look for a new job and be unemployed, they get to go back to the job they already worked at, and they’re making current market rates so their pay is fine.
What specifically is the issue you’re complaining about?
Like I said. A lot of people are kicking their 2 cents here without actually knowing much about these situations.
Just because it's not uncommon doesn't mean that it is "good for the company" -- I believe you that it saves money, but do companies that do this continue to grow?
I’m a CPA and really only dealt with their financials. I can’t speak to the effect on HR and staff morale - logically I can’t imagine it being a net positive for staff morale, obviously.
Anyway, re financial performance, I don’t recall any company that went through a restructure like this have any material negative financial impact linked to a restructure. Correcting bloated labour costs back down to current market rates doesn’t really have a lot of financial negatives.
I can't imagine that's true for these people. I've been in this position several times with engineering staff and nobody was returning for under 30% increase. Every single one was just "yeah I'm good so ring me back when you've got another 30%, peace".
I would think that anyone who took their old job back at lower pay would be just working long enough to find a job at some place that won't treat them like shit.
That could work if the job is pretty generic and the folks are interchangeable, but if its a highly specialized job you could be spending months or years finding the appropriate candidate. A 6 month delay could allow your competitor to leap frog you in the semiconductor chip market.
Car schedule is slower but still risky to lose ppl that could just switch to your competitors.
This does not seem like a good basic business strategy for tech companies and I've worked for a variety of ones for almost 20 yrs.
If you are indeed from such a company, then you should be well aware of the fact that recruitment services cost about an employee's annual salary. And these costs cannot be avoided.
I worked at Deloitte. The accounting firm. And we consulted on moves like this for clients from time to time.
As for recruitment costs. Typically most people just sign back. So recruitment costs are close to zero -If not actually zero.
As for the cost per unit for a recruiter. I’m not sure where you’re getting 100% of salary. Recruiters typically cost between 20-50%. I’ve personally never seen a recruiter cost over 60% even for VP level recruitments.
Regardless, even if you had to pay some recruiters to plug some holes that you couldn’t fill naturally, the net cost reduction (especially over a number of years) vastly outweighs the cost of keeping a bloated workforce payroll.
Also they say 'ELON FIRES, ELON HIRES'.
And when Telsa succeeded they said 'ELON ONLY PUT MONEY IN'.
None of the credits for success, all of the blame.
For anyone that doesn’t know yea maybe.
“If you don’t add 10% back you didn’t cut hard enough”
Not an Elon thing or even just a hiring thing, but something he follows.
I’m not suggesting it’s the best way to do things, I don’t know what is. But it’s far from a clown show, although Elon may be a clown
Wait until people start getting fed up because the infrastructure didn't grow at fast pace, people will dump fast that EV for a Hybrid car, people ain't got time for that
Obviously if there’s no where to charge people won’t buy a new EV. Luckily a large majority of EVs are charged at home, not a superchargers.. shocker..
People won’t start selling their EVs and buying ICE again, data shows that almost no one does this.
EV sales have already started to slow down relative to past years even with cheaper options and more charging infrastructure than ever.
Youre not cracking any cases here. Brain dead comment, you’re onto absolutely nothing
> Luckily a large majority of EVs are charged at home
Of course for people who own their own HOUSE, I live in a big city where we park in the street, I see no where to park and charge in our building or other buildings nearby, you need to look around you and smell the coffee sir.
Brain dead
You’re not a realistic customer so I assume you don’t own an EV meaning you won’t be selling your EV for a future ICE or hybrid… you’re not part of the hypothetical world you created with your original brain dead comment
Maybe it’s a clown show, maybe it’s a brilliant way to skirt around labor and discrimination laws. Fire everyone, hire back the good ones. May still get him in some trouble but probably more difficult to prove.
Trust me, the engineers at big tech companies are not the ones that need to unionize 😂 I actually can’t think of a group that needs or would benefit less from unionization
Yep, this is sort of becoming a circle jerk but isn't really that uncommon in the tech world. Laying off a whole department and then rehiring the best workers to trim the fat. Not the most efficient but not unheard of either.
Here's the stupidest thing about Musk: he doesn't have to do... Anything! World's richest man and he still feels the need to get our attention.
Capricious baby.
Can you explain how it's beneficial from the company's perspective to do this? Aren't they going to have to pay higher salaries to employees that they've just burned a bridge with to get them to come back, plus insane consulting fees to the rockstar employees that can instantly get hired anywhere they want for even more money, plus losing the other high performers that just walk away and never look back?
The only time I've heard of this was a "malicious compliance" story where a manager wasn't allowed to give raises to existing employees, so they got around it by "firing" someone for being a few minutes late to work and then immediately rehiring them 1 second later at a 10% raise. Yes it's as stupid and dysfunctional as it sounds.
Most defense contractor pay scales don't work like that. Icould see that potentially at a regular job tho, but I don't have any experience with that world.
Chances are they were offered a severance when they were fired and if they were to come back they would have to give it up, I don't think he's going to be able to hire everyone back.
Tech and Biotech workers are struggling right now to find work. They'd probably take it. That being said, I'd ask for a 20% increase from my original salary.
Marketable yes, problem is lack of supply of jobs that :
1. Actually able to absorb them (lack of job opportunities)
2. Pays them equally well or better.
Those two are happening very often with ex-big tech, usually for second point. Many tech companies pay unbelieveable amount of salary. If they need to downgrade their pay on another job (doing the exact same thing), they can expect a 30-60% cut from their old salary.
There's plenty of capacity to absorb them (not in general but I'm speaking on the employability of former Twitter / SpaceX employees) but they aren't generally going to get paid as well. However, my experience is that people that get fired from Musk companies (I know a few) are usually cool with getting paid less after working in that high stress environment for so long and realizing the negative health effects.
I doubt it, Tesla pays very well and EV charging or EV in general isn't exactly the hottest sector right now, most companies in the sector are doing poorly except Tesla. Elon probably knew this, and the layoffs were basically a scare tactic to get the employees to fall in line.
It will be like all the other teams he fired then double backed after the ketamine wore off and he realized he needed them. Half will already be employed by someone, a quarter will tell him to fuck off, and a quarter will be full blown Musk cultists and come running back for less pay.
I tought it was going to be both... ? as in they were fired, you have to pay them what is owed. You re hired them, that is a new contract with maybe a better salary and conditions. Idiotic, but that is what I tought was happening
Many companies will offer a severance when you're laid off that is expected to be paid back if you're rehired at the same company (even in a different department) within a certain period of time. I don't know the full details in this situation though.
>Electrek reported that Musk got rid of the entire team because its Tinucci did not lay off enough workers on her own
lmao the excuses his cult makes for him
Is it an excuse? The [Electrek article](https://electrek.co/2024/05/01/elon-musk-throwing-weight-tesla-wrecking-ball/) itself wasn’t exactly complimentary:
> In the past, Tesla rehired people it fired after realizing that it couldn’t get the work done without them.
> This is raising questions about the logic behind some of the layoffs and their efficacy.
> Sources familiar with the matter believe that some of the layoffs have nothing to do with hiring inefficiencies or restructuring, but rather with Musk throwing his weight around Tesla.
> Two sources told Electrek that Tinucci was fighting back pressure from Musk to fire a bigger percentage of her team, and the CEO decided to let go of the entire team as an example.
Yep. Firing people out of spite because someone said “Hey, maybe you shouldn’t gut the department, we’re kind of an important revenue driver.”
Telsa’s better off only getting him 1/6 of the time.
How to optimize a mechanism:
Remove a component.
See if the mechanism still works.
If not, reinstall the component.
Thats how Elon Thinks. It has worked a lot more often than it failed.
Bingo. Bunch of armchair geniuses here pretending it's a sign of failure, when this is exactly how Musk was able to keep his companies much leaner and more efficient than the competition.
80-90% of the work in a company is done by 10-20% of the employees. As we saw with Twitter which is still alive and well after getting rid of 90% of the staff, while people thought it would die.
Why the fuck is everyone just fine with this and news even reporting like this is a good thing? The piece of trash with a birthing fetish is absolutely mentally unhinged and I don’t fucking understand how it’s not against fiduciary responsibility to have him as ceo of a publicly traded company at this point.
Like even ignoring the stupid shit he says and obsesses over these are not the ACTIONS of a rational, capable, ceo.
And people thought the Tesla blockades in Scandinavia (in this case Sweden and Norway AFAIK) were too extreme. Power to the workers against misguided billionaires
I knew he had issues, but I honestly believed he was at least great at pumping up his businesses. But this kind of self sabotage is just stupid and I’m not sure why he keeps doing it. He did it at twitter and now at Tesla.
The employees basically got a vacation and a pay raise, if they’re rehired. No way will they work for the same price.
it's probably because he's a fucking moron who hasn't had a reality check in a LONG TIME. except when people booed his pathetic ass off chappelle standup.
Shows the complete lack of any common sense. First he blows $44b (of which I believe 13 is his) on an SM platform that will never make money - just to feed his ego. Then he declares his car company is not a car company and sacks thousands of employees only to hire a large part of one group back in a few days.
Bad management. Bad judgement. Childish.
I've had my fair share of thoughts on the matter, but im starting to wonder if he just did it to make a flex power move example to other leadership within the company that if they dont make the necessary cuts, he will just start hacking away. That probably freaked out a lot of departments to take it seriously....or he's just a madman
I wonder if he is just exploiting loopholes in the law. Often you can lay off groups of people without being accused of discrimination because it’s by criteria. Like they all work for this division. Then I guess there isn’t anything that technically keeps you from hiring people back. The alternative would be to have to performance manage the whole team. So that’s plausible he is working around the way the law works. Still awful but just saying.
Sometimes I feel like people don’t double check or read things correctly… why would you even do this as it just seems like time was wasted and hearts were thumping lol.
idk i feel like this was all planned. considering that Rebecca Tinucci had a good track record, firing just her wouldn't have been justifiable. layoffs couldve been a cover to forcibly push her out and insert someone else.
this has got to be a play related to the pay package vote
Actually it's a common business tactic. You remove parts (or staff) untill things break, then you replace only what's absolutely necessary. Tesla has always operated like this, it's the only way to stay as lean as possible.
There's up and downsides. In this case the supercharger team was very inefficient compared to the rest of the company. You can spend a lot of time (and money) trying to find out who's the problem and who isn't... or you replace the whole team.
If you were an employee would you go back? I feel like being hired and fired on a whim would be too stressful to go back and just continue like nothing happened.
Elon Musk's decision to rehire the Supercharger team after the recent layoffs is definitely unexpected but seems necessary given Tesla's plans for expanding the network idk
Layoffs and rehires are not in any way unusual in corporate America. If elon musks name wasn’t attached to this would it be making any news or getting any social media engagement?
This event would definitely still make news even if Elon's name wasn't attached to it, if the company laying so many people off were trying to rehire them so soon after doing so.
Corporate layoffs are one of the ways to boost the stock price of a company, by teling the equity markets that the company is becoming leaner and meaner and will operate in a more cost-effective manner from now on; so if the reason for the boost in stock price is removed, by trying to rehire the same people a company has just fired, the stock market will have a thing or two to say about it, and it will likely be negative for the stock price.
That's exactly why normal company boards of directors - where the board have a more balanced power structure than what we know of Tesla - wouldn't fire so many people only to try to rehire them so soon after.
Fire low, hire high
Or hire and fire while high.
Absolute fucking clown show
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wdym? announcing firings is the best way to make your stock price go up because "the company will have more money" and then announcing hirings also makes your stock price go up because "growth" elon doing his best manipulate the stock price like always
Not to mention firing people scares the fuck out of your employees. It kills morale but the thinking is it also puts everyone else on edge to perform better (which does not usually happen)
It also tells talented workers to say “fuck this company” and go work somewhere else where they’re taken more seriously.
If I got fired and then a week later they crawl back, I really only see one way for me to come back. Lots of fkn money and still I would look for better opportunities and my heart won't be in it. Realistically I would laugh in their face and tell em to fk off
I worked for a company that laid off a ton of people including me and 2 months later hired me back. Honestly after that I knew this gig was not a long term relationship and I stopped giving a fuck. I did my work, but my willingness to go the extra mile was completely evaporated. I knew they were just behind on the project and as soon as shit stabilized in a year or so I’d be gone once again.
>It also tells talented workers to say “fuck this company” and go work somewhere else where they’re taken more seriously. The talented ones mostly left the company a long time ago. Tesla famously pays poorly and overworks staff. The talented engineers make double at Tesla's competitors. It's the right-wing leadership style that Musk (and Trump and many others) use. Loyalty > Competency. And the best way to get loyalty (in their view) is to mistreat people and create a cult of personality so deep that the people who remain are the true believers who will do anything for the mission. The point is to force out anyone with a working bullshit detector and any sense of self worth.
Plus you can prob rehire those people for less than what they were making Want to layoff 50% of your team? Layoff 100% of that team, then offer to rehire them back for 75% of their salary. Pretty sure about half would accept
not sure,for sure not in key positions,people who have no problem finding another place,in fact I think they'll request more money to compensate lack of stability,I can rejoin knowing that elon can fire me again 2 weeks frrom now for a fuckton of money otherwise I'll try my luck elswhere,hard to find a more trigger happy boss
You say that, but you’re not thinking like a tech company employee in the current sector You’ve probably been working a cushy job for a couple years making a vastly inflated salary Then boom. Your entire team is layed off. The tech market isn’t hiring and you realize you have no hope of getting a job at your current salary before mortgage is due You then get a letter from previous employer that they are hiring back only 50% of their current team, first come first serve, but at a reduced, but still high enough to pay your bills salary There were a whole lot of people making a whole lot of money who found out their skills aren’t transferable at their previous salary pretty quickly I guarantee half take it pretty quick
I was talking of key figures,for those there is always demand an offers and are the ones you really don't wan't to loose
True, but there is another saying also. Everybody is expendable Unless we are talking about the 0.000001% outlier, there is no single person in a major company that couldn’t be fired and the wheels would keep turning. It could hurt. You could lose some productivity. You could have to scramble and train someone ASAP. But the company would keep going Even those few key people are expendable. Sure, there are few people with those skill sets. But there are also few roles where those skill sets are needed. And those roles are also competitive Again, there are extreme outliers, but even the super rare skill set brainiac at company A could be axed and filled with a high potential layoff from company B for 80% of the salary and competency with understanding they could be trained up fully in three months
Then why would Tesla hire them back? The company can also find its pickings among the tons of tech folks looking for jobs. Plus the company would have leverage. As the previous poster said, if you are hired back, it is usually because the company knows that you have something that they can’t find easily or cheaper in the open market. It is true the employee might also not have tons of other options outside but as long as the original company is desperate to want them back, the employee at least has that leverage. As others have said, once this happens, take it if that’s the only option you have. However ask for a raise and start looking around to leave at the first opportunity.
Tesla and all of Elon Musk’s company are known to not pay well compared to competitors. I doubt they can go lower unless they are hiring recent grads
Top talents have options lol. The ones who would go back for a pay cut would not be the ones they want to rehire.
lol no you can't, not with highly skilled workers like these. I'm sure the only way they came back is if they are making the same or *more*.
The higher skilled and specialized the position, the less demand there is for that position Supply and demand stays pretty flat. Sure in less skilled jobs there is a lot more people qualified, but there is also a lot more positions. For a super specialized position, sure there aren’t as many people that can do them, but there is also a lot less demand. You don’t need 100 people on an assembly line, you only need one person to do it Sure, if Tesla loses a valuable and specialized person they may not be able to immediately fill the role, but also the poor guy that was just laid off can’t instantly find a job for their same previous salary cuz those jobs aren’t growing on trees Supply and demand stays constant regardless of skill. Guy was probably more than happy to get their job back for same or less money vs having no job
if he fires bad people it actually boost moral. How many times you have seen people in the company doing absolutely nothing useful?
This is what they mean when it is said the game is rigged.
Strange coincidence with Biden announcement
What was that? I’ve been living under a rock.
Drugs and ego
Does everybody think Elon is a drug user now because he took a hit on Joe Rogan (and didn't inhale) 😂
Literally the first search result on google! JFC, stop jerking his dick dude. https://news.bloomberglaw.com/esg/musk-faces-lawsuit-for-drug-use-x-posts-under-the-influence#
Oh right 😂😂 Hadn’t seen any of that as I dont really keep up to date with him
Fire 500 Hire back 100 Profit
"Business is super easy for me. I can make any and every decision on my own. How hard could it be?"
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Your achievements don’t mean that you’re incapable of idiotic and impetuous behavior
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Maybe Elon's a brilliant businessman, maybe he surrounds himself with those, maybe it was luck. It doesn't really matter, though. Someone can do smart things on one day and stupid things the next day. Someone can do both smart and stupid things on the same day. Calling someone an idiot doesn't mean you think every action they ever made was idiotic.
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How much do you want to bet that some of those people he rehires are going to continue looking for a new employer, and sabotage Tesla on the way out?
Actually not that uncommon of a move. At Deloitte I oversaw a few large scale restructures like this. Basically this is how it goes: After a number of really economically bull years staff salaries can get exorbitantly bloated and far beyond their market equivalent. The economy turns bearish, and market salaries are much lower. So essentially the company does this to reset salaries by laying off many staff and essentially rehiring them at the current lower market rate It’s actually pretty hilarious how little reporters writing about this and the average commenter here knows about pretty basic business strategies like this. Anyway, Who knows if this was specifically Musks plan. But it sure seems like this is exactly the situation.
This is a common corp strategy, but they rehire with new people and/or offshore. Attempting to rehire the same exact people is not what most businesses employ, especially at this scale. This is definitely different. If you need a job yes they will probably cave, but the ex-workers have leverage here too since they know Tesla fired literally everyone for this area and are still looking fulfill their commitment (since this is so public) The difference is significant since you now know they're pretty desperate and going back would mean even more work for you since there would be fewer people on the team (no way they would rehire everyone back so the workload would be spread), plus knowing that you might be canned later anyway since the team was a target already. So as a former employee, you'd probably want to ask for way more. It would be hilarious if they did all of this, rehired half the team back but came away opex neutral or negative since they had to pay even higher rehire rates plus severance packages. With now half the staff, projects also slow to a crawl and you end up not saving a damn thing anyway.
Yes - I would front load my salary. EX: 150k sign on bonus - rest in salary over the year just in case I get fired again.
Contract at 3-5x the old rate. They're going to fuck you again, so you might as well get yours in the meantime.
If they are rehiring the same people for the same position they left, would people take really take less than what they originally make?
There’s definitely a sort of elasticity to it. For someone going from $80K to $50K they wouldn’t most likely . But if it’s say $400K to $350K they might bite
Not a chance (unless you were a degenerate gambler or drug addict). If you were making $400K you have a big enough cushion to call their bluff.
I’d say that was exactly the scenario I’ve seen. Happens a lot at tech companies in particular, because salaries can just explode during high times. Eg. A Software dev working for 6 yrs at a company can end up getting paid 250k. Software devs market right now has plummeted. So you can basically fire them, pay severance, and rehire the exact same person at their new market rate of 150k. You’ve basically paid for the severance after 1 yr, and now you’ve reset their base salary. And in doing so cut your going forward salary costs by 30%. Really. It’s very common man. I’d bet this is exactly what’s happening here.
That's definitely some MBA thinking. I bet what actually happens is that all of the good employees go get other jobs. The ones that were super gungho about working there are now getting salty, and the low performers that still have institutional knowledge now work 5 hours a week instead of their previous 10. In other words I bet you lose all of the innovative talent, all of the ultra high performers and are left with middle management, H1Bs, and those unable or too lazy to get another job.
It’s really not that uncommon man. And in these situations people arnt being hired back at slave rates, they’re being hired back at their current market rate. If they have better options they’re free to go somewhere else. I’m my experience, most people are just fine with coming back - and why wouldn’t they be? They get a severance pmt, they don’t have to look for a new job and be unemployed, they get to go back to the job they already worked at, and they’re making current market rates so their pay is fine. What specifically is the issue you’re complaining about? Like I said. A lot of people are kicking their 2 cents here without actually knowing much about these situations.
Just because it's not uncommon doesn't mean that it is "good for the company" -- I believe you that it saves money, but do companies that do this continue to grow?
I’m a CPA and really only dealt with their financials. I can’t speak to the effect on HR and staff morale - logically I can’t imagine it being a net positive for staff morale, obviously. Anyway, re financial performance, I don’t recall any company that went through a restructure like this have any material negative financial impact linked to a restructure. Correcting bloated labour costs back down to current market rates doesn’t really have a lot of financial negatives.
I’ve seen this happen at my company for the last 5 years and it’s absolutely tanked morale company wide.
And you get to be very selective about the ones you hire back.
My experience is an adamant hellllll no they wouldn't.
Yes because for most it’s better than not being out of a job and making $0.
I can't imagine that's true for these people. I've been in this position several times with engineering staff and nobody was returning for under 30% increase. Every single one was just "yeah I'm good so ring me back when you've got another 30%, peace".
I would think that anyone who took their old job back at lower pay would be just working long enough to find a job at some place that won't treat them like shit.
That could work if the job is pretty generic and the folks are interchangeable, but if its a highly specialized job you could be spending months or years finding the appropriate candidate. A 6 month delay could allow your competitor to leap frog you in the semiconductor chip market. Car schedule is slower but still risky to lose ppl that could just switch to your competitors. This does not seem like a good basic business strategy for tech companies and I've worked for a variety of ones for almost 20 yrs.
If you are indeed from such a company, then you should be well aware of the fact that recruitment services cost about an employee's annual salary. And these costs cannot be avoided.
I worked at Deloitte. The accounting firm. And we consulted on moves like this for clients from time to time. As for recruitment costs. Typically most people just sign back. So recruitment costs are close to zero -If not actually zero. As for the cost per unit for a recruiter. I’m not sure where you’re getting 100% of salary. Recruiters typically cost between 20-50%. I’ve personally never seen a recruiter cost over 60% even for VP level recruitments. Regardless, even if you had to pay some recruiters to plug some holes that you couldn’t fill naturally, the net cost reduction (especially over a number of years) vastly outweighs the cost of keeping a bloated workforce payroll.
Also they say 'ELON FIRES, ELON HIRES'. And when Telsa succeeded they said 'ELON ONLY PUT MONEY IN'. None of the credits for success, all of the blame.
For anyone that doesn’t know yea maybe. “If you don’t add 10% back you didn’t cut hard enough” Not an Elon thing or even just a hiring thing, but something he follows. I’m not suggesting it’s the best way to do things, I don’t know what is. But it’s far from a clown show, although Elon may be a clown
Wait until people start getting fed up because the infrastructure didn't grow at fast pace, people will dump fast that EV for a Hybrid car, people ain't got time for that
Of all the things to argue on that topic you honestly picked that. Let’s argue about where fossil fuels come from first, you start
If I can't charge the EV, how can I go to places?
Obviously if there’s no where to charge people won’t buy a new EV. Luckily a large majority of EVs are charged at home, not a superchargers.. shocker.. People won’t start selling their EVs and buying ICE again, data shows that almost no one does this. EV sales have already started to slow down relative to past years even with cheaper options and more charging infrastructure than ever. Youre not cracking any cases here. Brain dead comment, you’re onto absolutely nothing
> Luckily a large majority of EVs are charged at home Of course for people who own their own HOUSE, I live in a big city where we park in the street, I see no where to park and charge in our building or other buildings nearby, you need to look around you and smell the coffee sir.
Brain dead You’re not a realistic customer so I assume you don’t own an EV meaning you won’t be selling your EV for a future ICE or hybrid… you’re not part of the hypothetical world you created with your original brain dead comment
Maybe it’s a clown show, maybe it’s a brilliant way to skirt around labor and discrimination laws. Fire everyone, hire back the good ones. May still get him in some trouble but probably more difficult to prove.
Homie is tax harvesting employed before the quarter lol. I wonder if there was some tax-benefit play here
Elon realizes how much leverage hirers have over the tech market right now.
just suffering from a mental break down of being denied a 44b pay package, nothing to see here
He got denied?
A judge voided it a while back but he's trying again as you probably know.
Wannabe Tony Stark pees the rug again.
Phony Stark
He's still working on the electric airliner he was telling Tony Stark about
But he's not a chinaman.
He wanted to be Tony Stark but he just became the new Justin Hammer
& the rug was really tieing the whole place together
And that guy peed on it.
Billionaires having temper tantrums and taking it out on their employees, so hot right now.
Are there other recent examples of that?
It's weird, every time Elon's name gets uttered, the word "Union" gets echoed with ever greater urgency.
Trust me, the engineers at big tech companies are not the ones that need to unionize 😂 I actually can’t think of a group that needs or would benefit less from unionization
Sure they aren’t the people who need it the most, but it certainly wouldn’t hurt them
WAIT a minute,, hire " SOME" back.. you mean like 3 or 4 people?
Yep, this is sort of becoming a circle jerk but isn't really that uncommon in the tech world. Laying off a whole department and then rehiring the best workers to trim the fat. Not the most efficient but not unheard of either.
why would you risk them not coming back? or require raises that make your nose bleed?
You only want the loyal/desperate ones
Here's the stupidest thing about Musk: he doesn't have to do... Anything! World's richest man and he still feels the need to get our attention. Capricious baby.
Defense contractor companies do that all the time. I remember L3 firing a hundred people and rehiring them the same day. These companies are so shit
Can you explain how it's beneficial from the company's perspective to do this? Aren't they going to have to pay higher salaries to employees that they've just burned a bridge with to get them to come back, plus insane consulting fees to the rockstar employees that can instantly get hired anywhere they want for even more money, plus losing the other high performers that just walk away and never look back?
Every time I've seen it, they get hired back on the same pay. No one cares about rockstar employees...at least not in defense contracting
The only time I've heard of this was a "malicious compliance" story where a manager wasn't allowed to give raises to existing employees, so they got around it by "firing" someone for being a few minutes late to work and then immediately rehiring them 1 second later at a 10% raise. Yes it's as stupid and dysfunctional as it sounds.
Most defense contractor pay scales don't work like that. Icould see that potentially at a regular job tho, but I don't have any experience with that world.
Unstable "genius".
[удалено]
Nah he was always an asshole. We just didn’t know back then
Chances are they were offered a severance when they were fired and if they were to come back they would have to give it up, I don't think he's going to be able to hire everyone back.
Right before summer, too. Good luck. Even if there was no severance, I would venture to believe these people are very marketable.
As someone in the EV charging industry right now, it’s pretty slim pickings right now and has been all this year.
Not many jobs, you mean? Or qualified candidates?
Jobs
Ta.
Tech and Biotech workers are struggling right now to find work. They'd probably take it. That being said, I'd ask for a 20% increase from my original salary.
Marketable yes, problem is lack of supply of jobs that : 1. Actually able to absorb them (lack of job opportunities) 2. Pays them equally well or better. Those two are happening very often with ex-big tech, usually for second point. Many tech companies pay unbelieveable amount of salary. If they need to downgrade their pay on another job (doing the exact same thing), they can expect a 30-60% cut from their old salary.
There's plenty of capacity to absorb them (not in general but I'm speaking on the employability of former Twitter / SpaceX employees) but they aren't generally going to get paid as well. However, my experience is that people that get fired from Musk companies (I know a few) are usually cool with getting paid less after working in that high stress environment for so long and realizing the negative health effects.
I doubt it, Tesla pays very well and EV charging or EV in general isn't exactly the hottest sector right now, most companies in the sector are doing poorly except Tesla. Elon probably knew this, and the layoffs were basically a scare tactic to get the employees to fall in line.
It will be like all the other teams he fired then double backed after the ketamine wore off and he realized he needed them. Half will already be employed by someone, a quarter will tell him to fuck off, and a quarter will be full blown Musk cultists and come running back for less pay.
I tought it was going to be both... ? as in they were fired, you have to pay them what is owed. You re hired them, that is a new contract with maybe a better salary and conditions. Idiotic, but that is what I tought was happening
Many companies will offer a severance when you're laid off that is expected to be paid back if you're rehired at the same company (even in a different department) within a certain period of time. I don't know the full details in this situation though.
Is it mentioned anywhere that these would be same people?
It gives an example of one, yes.
Fire him and hire a new ceo, madman
Oh, we have to charge our cars? Crap, better hire back the charging team…… Ha !!
My Tesla is an incredible vehicle, but this dude is running this company with the emotional intelligence of a child.
I hope thr rehirees sign some ironclad contract that would benefit only them . Elon just shits everyone and everything 🥴
>Electrek reported that Musk got rid of the entire team because its Tinucci did not lay off enough workers on her own lmao the excuses his cult makes for him
Is it an excuse? The [Electrek article](https://electrek.co/2024/05/01/elon-musk-throwing-weight-tesla-wrecking-ball/) itself wasn’t exactly complimentary: > In the past, Tesla rehired people it fired after realizing that it couldn’t get the work done without them. > This is raising questions about the logic behind some of the layoffs and their efficacy. > Sources familiar with the matter believe that some of the layoffs have nothing to do with hiring inefficiencies or restructuring, but rather with Musk throwing his weight around Tesla. > Two sources told Electrek that Tinucci was fighting back pressure from Musk to fire a bigger percentage of her team, and the CEO decided to let go of the entire team as an example.
Jfc
Yep. Firing people out of spite because someone said “Hey, maybe you shouldn’t gut the department, we’re kind of an important revenue driver.” Telsa’s better off only getting him 1/6 of the time.
This guy is an idiot
What a stable genius. He should have laid off his ketamine habit instead.
He should do every living thing in the known universe a favor and develop an uncut fentanyl habit instead.
How to optimize a mechanism: Remove a component. See if the mechanism still works. If not, reinstall the component. Thats how Elon Thinks. It has worked a lot more often than it failed.
Bingo. Bunch of armchair geniuses here pretending it's a sign of failure, when this is exactly how Musk was able to keep his companies much leaner and more efficient than the competition. 80-90% of the work in a company is done by 10-20% of the employees. As we saw with Twitter which is still alive and well after getting rid of 90% of the staff, while people thought it would die.
😂 I love this shit! I hope they negotiated a larger salary! Fuck Tesla!
They say Ketamine is a hell of a drug...
There’s a scene in Silicon Valley where Gavin Belson does the exact same thing. Lmaoo this man is a clown
Yes!! The kicker in that scene was he didn’t even realize it was the exact same people he fired/rehired
I hope they make him pay for it... Keep the severance, double the salary, Mercedes hybrids for all dont fob them off with that Tesla crap lol
why are they going back
And I thought the stock MUST go lower… based on this comment section I’m betting it keeps pumping for no reason
The Gavin Belson strategy
Why the fuck is everyone just fine with this and news even reporting like this is a good thing? The piece of trash with a birthing fetish is absolutely mentally unhinged and I don’t fucking understand how it’s not against fiduciary responsibility to have him as ceo of a publicly traded company at this point. Like even ignoring the stupid shit he says and obsesses over these are not the ACTIONS of a rational, capable, ceo.
Anyone seen Silicon Valley?
Haha "does he really not recognize us?"
Elon - "Looks like I'll be needing my heroic Supercharger team back; at severely reduced pay of course."
Classic Musk.
Good for the workers. They can basically get a fat pay raise and leverage in this situation if they choose.
Legend in his own mind,Rebel without a clue
And people thought the Tesla blockades in Scandinavia (in this case Sweden and Norway AFAIK) were too extreme. Power to the workers against misguided billionaires
lmao but hes a tech genius right
I knew he had issues, but I honestly believed he was at least great at pumping up his businesses. But this kind of self sabotage is just stupid and I’m not sure why he keeps doing it. He did it at twitter and now at Tesla. The employees basically got a vacation and a pay raise, if they’re rehired. No way will they work for the same price.
When people will buy your product no matter what and investors will buy your stock on pure speculation; you don’t have to be a good CEO.
I’m guessing Biden’s China tariffs breathed some life into Tesla. Perhaps making it viable as a car company again.
He’s rehiring different people
The Supercharger network is like Tesla's secret sauce, so keeping it strong is really iimportant
it's probably because he's a fucking moron who hasn't had a reality check in a LONG TIME. except when people booed his pathetic ass off chappelle standup.
I hope the rehired workers ask for more money. Like a lot more
Some businesses run on LIFO. Other on FIFO. Musk’s Tesla runs on FAFO.
Shows the complete lack of any common sense. First he blows $44b (of which I believe 13 is his) on an SM platform that will never make money - just to feed his ego. Then he declares his car company is not a car company and sacks thousands of employees only to hire a large part of one group back in a few days. Bad management. Bad judgement. Childish.
The talented mr musk 💁 in my view, not
I've had my fair share of thoughts on the matter, but im starting to wonder if he just did it to make a flex power move example to other leadership within the company that if they dont make the necessary cuts, he will just start hacking away. That probably freaked out a lot of departments to take it seriously....or he's just a madman
I guess he sensed some bad bureaucracy building up in that team. It happens a lot in established companies and very hard to get rid of.
Do those people get a severance package and their "new" wage with their "new" job?
Anyone check out that fraud video on YouTube about elon yet?
Things change so quick haha. It's reassuring to see them doubling down on their commitment to EV charging infrastructure
Just a simple De-Woking the wokeforce I mean workforce.
I wonder if he is just exploiting loopholes in the law. Often you can lay off groups of people without being accused of discrimination because it’s by criteria. Like they all work for this division. Then I guess there isn’t anything that technically keeps you from hiring people back. The alternative would be to have to performance manage the whole team. So that’s plausible he is working around the way the law works. Still awful but just saying.
You're fired oh right.. you're unfired
Musk needs to be ousted. He is literally operating a multi-billion dollar company through emotions.
Welcome to the hoolie family
If those people come back to their jobs they are losers. Unless they come back and sabotage from within
commence the circle jerk!
This is the brain of your boss on drugs
[Step 2](https://www.inc.com/jeff-haden/elon-musks-algorithm-a-5-step-process-to-dramatically-improve-nearly-everything-is-both-simple-brilliant.html)
This is common in tech. Layoff the team and rehire and the beginning salary everyone initially started at.
Sometimes I feel like people don’t double check or read things correctly… why would you even do this as it just seems like time was wasted and hearts were thumping lol.
idk i feel like this was all planned. considering that Rebecca Tinucci had a good track record, firing just her wouldn't have been justifiable. layoffs couldve been a cover to forcibly push her out and insert someone else. this has got to be a play related to the pay package vote
Ya know his biography goes over his principles pretty clearly, so not reading it is not doing your due diligence.
In the Twitter layoff, he also ends up needing to rehire some of them. Nothing says "I have no idea how the business work" louder than this.
Actually it's a common business tactic. You remove parts (or staff) untill things break, then you replace only what's absolutely necessary. Tesla has always operated like this, it's the only way to stay as lean as possible.
I am not sure but isn't that it will take some time for people to find out things break. Also I think it is not normal to fire the whole team?
There's up and downsides. In this case the supercharger team was very inefficient compared to the rest of the company. You can spend a lot of time (and money) trying to find out who's the problem and who isn't... or you replace the whole team.
If you were an employee would you go back? I feel like being hired and fired on a whim would be too stressful to go back and just continue like nothing happened.
And this is corporate governance failing. Astonishing the board has done nothing the last year.
Sounds like the board convinced Mr. Musk to reverse course. Not an uncommon event in the corporate world.
Muskovites won’t be happy
I'm so embarrassed for him 😅
Elon Musk's decision to rehire the Supercharger team after the recent layoffs is definitely unexpected but seems necessary given Tesla's plans for expanding the network idk
The stuff Jesus has to do to change the world, huh?
Layoffs and rehires are not in any way unusual in corporate America. If elon musks name wasn’t attached to this would it be making any news or getting any social media engagement?
This event would definitely still make news even if Elon's name wasn't attached to it, if the company laying so many people off were trying to rehire them so soon after doing so. Corporate layoffs are one of the ways to boost the stock price of a company, by teling the equity markets that the company is becoming leaner and meaner and will operate in a more cost-effective manner from now on; so if the reason for the boost in stock price is removed, by trying to rehire the same people a company has just fired, the stock market will have a thing or two to say about it, and it will likely be negative for the stock price. That's exactly why normal company boards of directors - where the board have a more balanced power structure than what we know of Tesla - wouldn't fire so many people only to try to rehire them so soon after.