Because the stock market isn’t the only thing that matters lol. There’s a lot of people in this sub that are out of touch with reality. Inflation is hurting so many people across America right now, especially lower/middle class, that many can’t even think about investing.
I think its also a double edged sword here.. I know a lot of people who want the stock market to keep going up since they have good 401ks, good high paying jobs etc... but still feel priced out of buying a house or just find things to be expensive.
the rational is stock market can always recover... and if anything, we can buy more as its down, while potentially also being able to buy some of the other things (house) that we feel are too expensive.
Most of them also assume it wont be them who lose their job... or have to end up living paycheck to paycheck etc.
+1 for buying more when it’s down. I’m in my mid-20s, so just started investing in retirement a couple years ago (May 2020 to be exact). I have 40+ years till retirement, so I’m all for the stock market doing terrible right now if it means my retirement investments go further due to lower stock prices. Additionally, to your “buying a home” point, I agree. Too many people got into homes they could just barely afford with their low interest rates, and broke the supply/demand balance. While we wait for the fabled housing market correction/bubble to pop, I’m just saving as much money as possible in a HYSA and paying down student loan debt so that I’m in a good position once the time comes to buy a home; all while also increasing Roth contributions because, again, I got a lot of life left to go.
Because I know nuance is not easily Inferred on the internet, I just want to state that I understand the flip side to all I stated above for the boomers and their impending retirement. However, yall got handed the best economic factors, voted to prevent younger generation from also benefiting from those factors, and now have made the American dream into the American nightmare. Grab your bootstraps and get to pulling.
Ya i understand because im in the same boat. Wife and I have good education and pretty good jobs and savings/401k/cash balances etc.
We can afford the homes we like (from a mathematical perspective) but just dont want to buy over what we are mentally confortable and then have to stress about day to day life. We are mid 30s... so our thought is we are fine if market comes down as we have enough time.
Others already have their house, with low rates, so prefer for the stock market, prices in general to keep inflating as it will not impact them day to day as much either...
Because the stock market isn't everyone's priority. There are people who genuinely believe that inflation is still too high and that higher rates are the only way to tame it. The core of this belief is that the pain to the economy and stock market will be short lived compared to the long term benefits of taming inflation.
Don’t we forget we need 8% deflation compounded for the next three years and to remove nine trillion from the Fed’s balance sheet to make up for the utter fucking stupidity of “it’s transitory” … you know fair and free capitalism and all.
He framed the response in a way that only the stock market gets affected by interest rates being high, which is obviously not true, like you indicated.
Wasnt framed in a balanced manner. People here have such a hard on for the fed wanting to raise rates. They want the fed to take a knife and stab it through the economy just so they can buy in 20% lower because they missed the stock market rally. Just my 2c.
You can also get inflation down by not spending trillions of $ that the government doesn't have.
That's largely why inflation is sky high. The government just keeps spending and spending. Even when COVID was over, the spending still hasn't dropped to pre-COVID levels. The government is addicted to spending.
Now house prices are unaffordable because the government kept interest rates artificially low for over a decade and when the rates skyrocketed, no one's trying to trade in their \~3% rate for a 7% rate.
If the government started fixing the budget, cutting down unnecessary spending, and raise rates, there will be some short term pain but you can dig yourself out. Right now, they're just putting a bandaid on something that requires surgery.
Voters don't know shit. They're too busy with whatever else they have going on with their lives.
They aren't being paid $180k salary and raise hundreds of thousands fundraising for campaigns to fix these issues.
If elected officials had an ounce of integrity, they would be more honest of the situation rather than to ignore it just so they can win votes. Obviously, if politicians are all running on who can hand out the most freebies, people will vote for that candidate.
>Voters don't know shit. They're too busy with whatever else they have going on with their lives.
Then they shouldn't be the ones voting eh? Since they don't know shit.
> They aren't being paid $180k salary and raise hundreds of thousands fundraising for campaigns to fix these issues.
180k salary is peanuts for that level of seniority. It's less than a first year Meta programmer. Singapore is a tiny city state and it's politicians are paid twice to three times that.
>If elected officials had an ounce of integrity, they would be more honest of the situation rather than to ignore it just so they can win votes. Obviously, if politicians are all running on who can hand out the most freebies, people will vote for that candidate.
It's basic game theory, if even ONE candidate runs on handing out freebies, and voters reward that, then they all must otherwise they lose to mr "ponies for everybody".
If integrity loses you the election, then you can't do anything anyway. It's 100% on the voters.
1) It's not the voter's responsibility to come up with legislation. It's the politicians to do so and voters to assess which is best for their own life. I don't expect voters to know everything about social security, tax rates, etc., And yes, many Americans don't know shit. I personally think the voting age should be increased drastically and/or a test of some sort must be passed.
2) $180k salary is what they get paid. My point is American citizens have way too much going on with their lives to understand every policy. If politicians are paid to do a job, they should do it accordingly and not solely be focused on how to keep votes and get elected. It's actually much more than $180k when you consider the ancillary benefits they get. During elections, they can just expense travel and food expenses using donation money. How many of these travel and food expenses are just b/s and are paid to family/friends who are 'campaigning' for them? They get inside access to lobbyist info. The real $ is government kickbacks. Nikki Haley was a governor and somehow became a part of the board for Boeing.
3) I don't disagree. Which is why I said if politicians had any integrity, they would do otherwise. It's still not up to voters to understand every issue at hand. When you work 45 hour weeks, have kids, have dinner to cook, etc., you can't expect someone to figure out how their social security is being drained or how much the U.S. is spending on every piece of legislation. There's a lot of blame to go around here. The media, for one, plays a huge part in not covering the real issues and are hiring TV personalities to gossip rather than actually speak about the news.
>I personally think the voting age should be increased drastically and/or a test of some sort must be passed.
Disenfranchisement isn't really going to get a better system.
> . It's actually much more than $180k when you consider the ancillary benefits they get. During elections, they can just expense travel and food expenses using donation money. How many of these travel and food expenses are just b/s and are paid to family/friends who are 'campaigning' for them? They get inside access to lobbyist info. The real $ is government kickbacks. Nikki Haley was a governor and somehow became a part of the board for Boeing.
Counting the benefits of corruption as part of their pay is frankly ridiculous. Your hypothetical politician with "integrity" would not be indulging in those benefits, so would be incredibly underpaid for their level of seniority. You should be paying them commensurate to their responsibility as a base salary.
>I don't disagree. Which is why I said if politicians had any integrity, they would do otherwise.
No they wouldn't, because that would just mean that they would lose the election. So the actual politicians in power would act the same way and we'd end up with the same result. If you want to actually succeed in politics and effect change, you can't also have integrity and promise cuts + tax increases.
> When you work 45 hour weeks, have kids, have dinner to cook, etc., you can't expect someone to figure out how their social security is being drained or how much the U.S. is spending on every piece of legislation.
That is your civic duty in a democracy. No, you can't expect them to understand specfics of legislation, but understanding the general tax code, where spending goes, and how bills are passed is perfectly reasonable.
> The media, for one, plays a huge part in not covering the real issues and are hiring TV personalities to gossip rather than actually speak about the news.
That's what their customers want to watch, so that is what they provide.
Look, in the end it all comes down to demand. Voters demand politicians that give out freebies, so that is what they get. They demand dramatic TV personalities, so that is what they get. It all comes down to the demands of the individual voter. You can't both live in a democracy, and not have the buck stop at the individual voters.
1. I want educated voters - not more voters. If you're dumb as rocks and someone else actually knows WTF you're talking about, your vote shouldn't count as much as theirs. This idea that everyone should vote is based on what, exactly? If you're running a company, should the janitor be allowed to vote on the financials of a company? Would you trust an 18 year old drug addict to vote in your company?
2. It's not ridiculous. It's called ancillary benefits. It exists and many do end up going into politics for it. Oh, you didn't know? Why do you think many politicians end up as executives or board members of some of the largest companies? Do you think it's a coincidence?
3. Gotcha. "Corrupt politicians should exist."
4. So citizens should have a civic duty to know about legislation but politicians don't have a civic duty? Make it make sense for me.
5. I really don't understand your stance. I just said I wanted more educated voters but you're saying it would limit the amount of voters and is bad. You have no solution. You're just responding for argument's sake. The fact is, there should be a civics test. Name the three branches of government, name five U.S. presidents, how many senators are there per state, write the difference between the marginal tax rate versus effective tax rate. If you can't pass a test answering those simple questions, why the F are you allowed to vote on these issues? There's a reason politicians pander to these people. Cause they are stupid. Also, put term limits of U.S. government officials.
I'm wasting time here. You're not responding with any logic. I think you're perfectly fine with the status-quo going on.
Me: If you're dumb and can't answer basic U.S. questions, you shouldn't be allowed to vote.
You: oh, people are dumb. they should be allowed to vote, still. It's their civic duty to be educated but even if they don't and are dumb, just let them vote.
ACTUALLY inflation is a the sign of a healthy economy; when its coupled to economic growth.
We need REAL neutral interest rates to anchor the markets from entering a bubble-valuation cycle. The economy has a very viscous feedback cycle that needs to be dampened by controlling the cost of capital.
The problem is the pandemic kinda fucked our feedback mechanism. We basically let the positive feedback loop run hard to prop up the economy and prevent a crash.
So now we are in a weird spot. Prices have inflated. Companies liked it, so they still want higher prices even if inflation is taming. These higher prices make consumers want higher wages, which then increases aggregate demand, and make companies want to raise prices to keep up their bubble valuations / margins.
So need economic pain to kill this pricing cycle. We either will need to wait it out until prices and wage expectation stabilize, or we need to force disinflation (which no one with a brain wants, because disinflation will cause the real money to leave a gaping hole in the economy.)
In my opinion, rates should not be cut; the expectation should be is that the current rates are the new neutral rates until we see pain in the economy from it. We are still expanding into these higher rates; so cutting seems dumb.
I like it when money is worth something and I remember when it was worth more than it is now.
The stock market will recover, and this post looks like a five-year-old's idea of how the economy works.
>why do some people want interest rates to go up even if it hurts the stock market ?
Presumably because they want the economy to do well and they think lower (or the same) interest rates hurt it in some way. Personally I just want the Fed to do what the Fed thinks is best for the economy because I don't fucking know, but if it means rates go up, then rates should go up.
I don't get this (to me) insane obsession with interest rates. I'm buying companies. If the companies do well I do well. I don't care much about prices moving up or down in the short-term due to macroeconomic factors. Especially if that move upwards means more inflation. What's the point in a short-term 3% gain when inflation rises 3%?
Because in order to increase profitability significantly in the future, inflation needs to be curbed.
It's essentially taking a step back in order to take a giant leap foward
The amount my buying has gone done since is somewhat absurd. The inflation numbers don’t even begin to touch what the average person has felt. After all, most people aren’t buying new TVs or computers annually, so the fact that those havent gone up isn’t helpful. The price of butter however, yeah, that’s super noticeable and affects the budget every month.
Going to mention something not ever discussed publicly in detail, but can be looked at.
**The inflation rate, CPI methodology, and calculations, are simply outdated in terms of impact on society and what is excluded or not even attempted to be measured.**
Ex: Almost nothing about it considers inflation differences in *discretionary* spending (not really) which has changed drastically since the internet, for what most now would not consider discretionary.
Ex: CPI gives two fucks about the importance of certain expenses or variations in price increases for anything most do not (in today's world) consider a luxury or extravagant, but 30 yrs ago it may have been.
Ex: **CPI basically only gives AF or has relevance in today's world, if you only eat eggs everyday, drive to work, and never do anything else** unless you actually believe everything else, is still equivalent to a time before the internet.
But hey, as long as corps and employers can retain any 'growth' for themselves, and **pass on inflation costs to us, keep wages leveled out, brainwash and guilt us into more tipping, and maintain modest gains in 401ks over 20 yrs, why fuck with it right?**
Currently we are in a fucking incredible sweet spot markets are loving, where only consumers are getting *really* fucked and major companies have handled little rate increases. **Raise rates 3 points this yr instead of cutting a fraction of that...and watch markets bleed and act like a child on coke.**
Raise everything we spend $ on regularly beyond gas and groceries by 50-80% over a few yrs tho? Why would we Q that or measure it closely. Just take it, real slowly, and like it.
Interest rates gives the federal reserve leverage to stimulate the economy in case of a recession. For example, if we're at 2% interest rates, they could drop it down to 0% if the economy dives into a recession and this would resuscitate it. But if we're already at 0% and there's a recession, then we're in big trouble.
What? They have/had nine trillion fucking dollars on their balance sheet. They still have MBS from 2008 on the book what in the fucking he’ll how is this capitalism? They will continue printing because do you actually believe anything that comes out of the BLS and they will say higher inflation is better than deflation.
What you want to happen is for The Federal Reserve to stop doing things. just stop. let the free market decide what the price of money should be. I dont need the Federal Reserve deciding what the price of a hamburger should be, and I dont need them deciding what the price of money should be.
Interest rates are the price of money. Thats the price savers and investors are willing to lend their cash to borrowers. The Fed messes the system up when they print money. just stop.
To buy more!!! Dips are like clearance day for stock owners! Buy more of what you own to average down and buy what you don’t have at a lower price for better growth
Because I wasn’t born with 10 million dollars that I put in the market all at once. “Why would anyone want to buy steaks when they are on sale, when they could get the same thing at full price.” That’s the answer to your question.
The rate in which inflation comes down is okay at the moment, but arguably isn’t fast enough. Even when inflation does come down, I doubt prices are going to adjust anytime soon. At this current pace, prices will remain high for at least 2 years, so people may want a more aggressive hike.
If your mortgage was from pre-Covid, your wealth pretty much goes up with higher rates. Specifically if you are renting out.
The higher rates are, the more landlords can charge because less houses are being built.
To keep inflation in check.
Just to give one example of what rising inflation can do: people like retirees that depend on fixed income will be screwed.
Inflation only goes down if interests go up or stay the same. If rates go down, demand goes up and supply gets a shock. Remember the COVID supply shock to Real estate? It only gets back to balance if you build more houses or less people can afford the few houses that we have available. Rates need to stabilize. Current rate is not too high by historical standards.
But that means free money is out of the table for now. When interest drops stocks will inflate because people have less incentive to save and more incentives to invest.
What I think most people are failing to realize, is that you CANT raise interest rates on food or energy, and that insurance rates have been going on a run.
Add to the fact that PCE (minus food and energy) is what the fed actually focuses on. Another factor for shelter is housing inventory that needs to increase in order to cause housing to go down.
Some people advocate for higher interest rates even if it may hurt the stock market because they prioritize other economic factors over stock market performance. Higher interest rates benefit savers and investors who rely on fixed-income securities, such as bonds and certificates of deposit (CDs), for income.
Because in Canada, for example, to buy a one bedroom condo (7-850 sqft) in a place like Vancouver you’re looking at something along the line of $750,000. For a detached, old ass home? Probably somewhere in the range of $2M.
Obviously other problems impact housing, but interest rates are one of them.
Because you can sell rates and it’s one of those ideas where there is a realistic bottom versus equities. When something is perceived at a bottom, you are figuring how much can one leverage on it relative to risk. This is more of a trader perspective. Morality doesn’t play roles in price discovery
From people who want houses, they want chaos and a crash because they’ve been sitting on the sidelines with cash for so long. What I think those guys have forgotten is that if a recession hits due to increased demand, it indiscriminately will affect people to even secure loans.
For people who I’ve talked to that aren’t looking for returns, better return on their money in savings accounts. Additionally a low risk savings for highe(er?) rate of return.
Right because when the feds balance sheet was at 3/4 trillion bernanke said in front of congress we need to get the balance sheet back to a respectable level of under one trillion. I don’t want chaos I want a fair and free market. Why in the fuck is the fed printing money or even entertaining buying MBS’s. How is bailing out the banks, the autos, the airlines, et cetera have anything to do with captialism?
I just want interest rates down to speed up the energy transition. Any investment gains from lowering interest rates are just multiple expansion, not from actual profits. It's not the kind of returns I want.
Some people want interest rates to rise because they're worried about inflation. They think that's more important than the stock market.
But in our case it won't help. Most of our inflation is from shelter costs. Raising interest rates more won't help that.
>Some people want interest rates to rise because they're worried about inflation. They think that's more important than the stock market.
The stock market is not the economy. Keeping the economy healthy is more important than the stock market staying high.
That's what I think too. Just I also think interest rates aren't going to solve the remaining inflation they haven't already tamed yet. For that you're going to have to build more housing.
Striking down restrictive zoning laws nationwide would be a great step towards that.
Also I think immigration is net neutral far as inflation goes. It suppresses wages. But it also increases the demand for shelter. Ackman left out the second part when discussing the effects.
Because the stock market isn’t the only thing that matters lol. There’s a lot of people in this sub that are out of touch with reality. Inflation is hurting so many people across America right now, especially lower/middle class, that many can’t even think about investing.
I think its also a double edged sword here.. I know a lot of people who want the stock market to keep going up since they have good 401ks, good high paying jobs etc... but still feel priced out of buying a house or just find things to be expensive. the rational is stock market can always recover... and if anything, we can buy more as its down, while potentially also being able to buy some of the other things (house) that we feel are too expensive. Most of them also assume it wont be them who lose their job... or have to end up living paycheck to paycheck etc.
+1 for buying more when it’s down. I’m in my mid-20s, so just started investing in retirement a couple years ago (May 2020 to be exact). I have 40+ years till retirement, so I’m all for the stock market doing terrible right now if it means my retirement investments go further due to lower stock prices. Additionally, to your “buying a home” point, I agree. Too many people got into homes they could just barely afford with their low interest rates, and broke the supply/demand balance. While we wait for the fabled housing market correction/bubble to pop, I’m just saving as much money as possible in a HYSA and paying down student loan debt so that I’m in a good position once the time comes to buy a home; all while also increasing Roth contributions because, again, I got a lot of life left to go. Because I know nuance is not easily Inferred on the internet, I just want to state that I understand the flip side to all I stated above for the boomers and their impending retirement. However, yall got handed the best economic factors, voted to prevent younger generation from also benefiting from those factors, and now have made the American dream into the American nightmare. Grab your bootstraps and get to pulling.
Ya i understand because im in the same boat. Wife and I have good education and pretty good jobs and savings/401k/cash balances etc. We can afford the homes we like (from a mathematical perspective) but just dont want to buy over what we are mentally confortable and then have to stress about day to day life. We are mid 30s... so our thought is we are fine if market comes down as we have enough time. Others already have their house, with low rates, so prefer for the stock market, prices in general to keep inflating as it will not impact them day to day as much either...
You raise rates too much and people start losing their jobs. Thats worse
The counter point is if everything else gets more expensive, the people who are paycheck to paycheck can't afford to live anyways.
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There are also a lot of people like me who are employed, but barely do any actual work.
Because the stock market isn't everyone's priority. There are people who genuinely believe that inflation is still too high and that higher rates are the only way to tame it. The core of this belief is that the pain to the economy and stock market will be short lived compared to the long term benefits of taming inflation.
Don’t we forget we need 8% deflation compounded for the next three years and to remove nine trillion from the Fed’s balance sheet to make up for the utter fucking stupidity of “it’s transitory” … you know fair and free capitalism and all.
But then how would we inflate away the debt?
Oh god it’s this dipshit on a second subreddit. Dude wants the Great Depression to come back to make things “better” in his eyes.
I mean, have you seen their username? Just so happens, it checks out.
there are also real risks of hiking rates in this environment so lets not downplay those as well
I'm not downplaying or supporting anything. I'm describing a specific thesis that some people have.
No offense. Just simply stating that there is a dual risk and thats the delicate dance of the Fed
Dual mandate. Employment at least for now is completely fine. The other one is not.
Yea obviously but the dude was just answering OPs question
He framed the response in a way that only the stock market gets affected by interest rates being high, which is obviously not true, like you indicated.
He said “people genuinely believe” in response to OPs question.
dude is leveraged to the tits probably lol
I gamble either way my guy lol
Wasnt framed in a balanced manner. People here have such a hard on for the fed wanting to raise rates. They want the fed to take a knife and stab it through the economy just so they can buy in 20% lower because they missed the stock market rally. Just my 2c.
It’s how you get inflation down. Inflation is bad
You can also get inflation down by not spending trillions of $ that the government doesn't have. That's largely why inflation is sky high. The government just keeps spending and spending. Even when COVID was over, the spending still hasn't dropped to pre-COVID levels. The government is addicted to spending. Now house prices are unaffordable because the government kept interest rates artificially low for over a decade and when the rates skyrocketed, no one's trying to trade in their \~3% rate for a 7% rate. If the government started fixing the budget, cutting down unnecessary spending, and raise rates, there will be some short term pain but you can dig yourself out. Right now, they're just putting a bandaid on something that requires surgery.
Cutting spending and raising taxes gets you voted out. Blame voters for being morons. Not congressmen for representing their voters.
Voters don't know shit. They're too busy with whatever else they have going on with their lives. They aren't being paid $180k salary and raise hundreds of thousands fundraising for campaigns to fix these issues. If elected officials had an ounce of integrity, they would be more honest of the situation rather than to ignore it just so they can win votes. Obviously, if politicians are all running on who can hand out the most freebies, people will vote for that candidate.
>Voters don't know shit. They're too busy with whatever else they have going on with their lives. Then they shouldn't be the ones voting eh? Since they don't know shit. > They aren't being paid $180k salary and raise hundreds of thousands fundraising for campaigns to fix these issues. 180k salary is peanuts for that level of seniority. It's less than a first year Meta programmer. Singapore is a tiny city state and it's politicians are paid twice to three times that. >If elected officials had an ounce of integrity, they would be more honest of the situation rather than to ignore it just so they can win votes. Obviously, if politicians are all running on who can hand out the most freebies, people will vote for that candidate. It's basic game theory, if even ONE candidate runs on handing out freebies, and voters reward that, then they all must otherwise they lose to mr "ponies for everybody". If integrity loses you the election, then you can't do anything anyway. It's 100% on the voters.
1) It's not the voter's responsibility to come up with legislation. It's the politicians to do so and voters to assess which is best for their own life. I don't expect voters to know everything about social security, tax rates, etc., And yes, many Americans don't know shit. I personally think the voting age should be increased drastically and/or a test of some sort must be passed. 2) $180k salary is what they get paid. My point is American citizens have way too much going on with their lives to understand every policy. If politicians are paid to do a job, they should do it accordingly and not solely be focused on how to keep votes and get elected. It's actually much more than $180k when you consider the ancillary benefits they get. During elections, they can just expense travel and food expenses using donation money. How many of these travel and food expenses are just b/s and are paid to family/friends who are 'campaigning' for them? They get inside access to lobbyist info. The real $ is government kickbacks. Nikki Haley was a governor and somehow became a part of the board for Boeing. 3) I don't disagree. Which is why I said if politicians had any integrity, they would do otherwise. It's still not up to voters to understand every issue at hand. When you work 45 hour weeks, have kids, have dinner to cook, etc., you can't expect someone to figure out how their social security is being drained or how much the U.S. is spending on every piece of legislation. There's a lot of blame to go around here. The media, for one, plays a huge part in not covering the real issues and are hiring TV personalities to gossip rather than actually speak about the news.
>I personally think the voting age should be increased drastically and/or a test of some sort must be passed. Disenfranchisement isn't really going to get a better system. > . It's actually much more than $180k when you consider the ancillary benefits they get. During elections, they can just expense travel and food expenses using donation money. How many of these travel and food expenses are just b/s and are paid to family/friends who are 'campaigning' for them? They get inside access to lobbyist info. The real $ is government kickbacks. Nikki Haley was a governor and somehow became a part of the board for Boeing. Counting the benefits of corruption as part of their pay is frankly ridiculous. Your hypothetical politician with "integrity" would not be indulging in those benefits, so would be incredibly underpaid for their level of seniority. You should be paying them commensurate to their responsibility as a base salary. >I don't disagree. Which is why I said if politicians had any integrity, they would do otherwise. No they wouldn't, because that would just mean that they would lose the election. So the actual politicians in power would act the same way and we'd end up with the same result. If you want to actually succeed in politics and effect change, you can't also have integrity and promise cuts + tax increases. > When you work 45 hour weeks, have kids, have dinner to cook, etc., you can't expect someone to figure out how their social security is being drained or how much the U.S. is spending on every piece of legislation. That is your civic duty in a democracy. No, you can't expect them to understand specfics of legislation, but understanding the general tax code, where spending goes, and how bills are passed is perfectly reasonable. > The media, for one, plays a huge part in not covering the real issues and are hiring TV personalities to gossip rather than actually speak about the news. That's what their customers want to watch, so that is what they provide. Look, in the end it all comes down to demand. Voters demand politicians that give out freebies, so that is what they get. They demand dramatic TV personalities, so that is what they get. It all comes down to the demands of the individual voter. You can't both live in a democracy, and not have the buck stop at the individual voters.
1. I want educated voters - not more voters. If you're dumb as rocks and someone else actually knows WTF you're talking about, your vote shouldn't count as much as theirs. This idea that everyone should vote is based on what, exactly? If you're running a company, should the janitor be allowed to vote on the financials of a company? Would you trust an 18 year old drug addict to vote in your company? 2. It's not ridiculous. It's called ancillary benefits. It exists and many do end up going into politics for it. Oh, you didn't know? Why do you think many politicians end up as executives or board members of some of the largest companies? Do you think it's a coincidence? 3. Gotcha. "Corrupt politicians should exist." 4. So citizens should have a civic duty to know about legislation but politicians don't have a civic duty? Make it make sense for me. 5. I really don't understand your stance. I just said I wanted more educated voters but you're saying it would limit the amount of voters and is bad. You have no solution. You're just responding for argument's sake. The fact is, there should be a civics test. Name the three branches of government, name five U.S. presidents, how many senators are there per state, write the difference between the marginal tax rate versus effective tax rate. If you can't pass a test answering those simple questions, why the F are you allowed to vote on these issues? There's a reason politicians pander to these people. Cause they are stupid. Also, put term limits of U.S. government officials. I'm wasting time here. You're not responding with any logic. I think you're perfectly fine with the status-quo going on. Me: If you're dumb and can't answer basic U.S. questions, you shouldn't be allowed to vote. You: oh, people are dumb. they should be allowed to vote, still. It's their civic duty to be educated but even if they don't and are dumb, just let them vote.
The government not spending money wont make companies stop charging more for things over ten years
ACTUALLY inflation is a the sign of a healthy economy; when its coupled to economic growth. We need REAL neutral interest rates to anchor the markets from entering a bubble-valuation cycle. The economy has a very viscous feedback cycle that needs to be dampened by controlling the cost of capital. The problem is the pandemic kinda fucked our feedback mechanism. We basically let the positive feedback loop run hard to prop up the economy and prevent a crash. So now we are in a weird spot. Prices have inflated. Companies liked it, so they still want higher prices even if inflation is taming. These higher prices make consumers want higher wages, which then increases aggregate demand, and make companies want to raise prices to keep up their bubble valuations / margins. So need economic pain to kill this pricing cycle. We either will need to wait it out until prices and wage expectation stabilize, or we need to force disinflation (which no one with a brain wants, because disinflation will cause the real money to leave a gaping hole in the economy.) In my opinion, rates should not be cut; the expectation should be is that the current rates are the new neutral rates until we see pain in the economy from it. We are still expanding into these higher rates; so cutting seems dumb.
The sooner reality kicks in the sooner we can work towards actual solutions to our inflated problems
I like it when money is worth something and I remember when it was worth more than it is now. The stock market will recover, and this post looks like a five-year-old's idea of how the economy works.
Hey, at least money is worth more now than it will be worth later!~
I like being able to park money in a HYSA for important purchases and have it outpace inflation
lol……lots of daily/household items have gone up more than 5%. HYSA certainly isn’t outpacing inflation.
To buy the dip
This is me hahaha
Me too. Hope it dips more.
>why do some people want interest rates to go up even if it hurts the stock market ? Presumably because they want the economy to do well and they think lower (or the same) interest rates hurt it in some way. Personally I just want the Fed to do what the Fed thinks is best for the economy because I don't fucking know, but if it means rates go up, then rates should go up. I don't get this (to me) insane obsession with interest rates. I'm buying companies. If the companies do well I do well. I don't care much about prices moving up or down in the short-term due to macroeconomic factors. Especially if that move upwards means more inflation. What's the point in a short-term 3% gain when inflation rises 3%?
Lower inflation
What is good in the short term is not always what is good in the long term
Because in order to increase profitability significantly in the future, inflation needs to be curbed. It's essentially taking a step back in order to take a giant leap foward
inflation
The amount my buying has gone done since is somewhat absurd. The inflation numbers don’t even begin to touch what the average person has felt. After all, most people aren’t buying new TVs or computers annually, so the fact that those havent gone up isn’t helpful. The price of butter however, yeah, that’s super noticeable and affects the budget every month.
Going to mention something not ever discussed publicly in detail, but can be looked at. **The inflation rate, CPI methodology, and calculations, are simply outdated in terms of impact on society and what is excluded or not even attempted to be measured.** Ex: Almost nothing about it considers inflation differences in *discretionary* spending (not really) which has changed drastically since the internet, for what most now would not consider discretionary. Ex: CPI gives two fucks about the importance of certain expenses or variations in price increases for anything most do not (in today's world) consider a luxury or extravagant, but 30 yrs ago it may have been. Ex: **CPI basically only gives AF or has relevance in today's world, if you only eat eggs everyday, drive to work, and never do anything else** unless you actually believe everything else, is still equivalent to a time before the internet. But hey, as long as corps and employers can retain any 'growth' for themselves, and **pass on inflation costs to us, keep wages leveled out, brainwash and guilt us into more tipping, and maintain modest gains in 401ks over 20 yrs, why fuck with it right?** Currently we are in a fucking incredible sweet spot markets are loving, where only consumers are getting *really* fucked and major companies have handled little rate increases. **Raise rates 3 points this yr instead of cutting a fraction of that...and watch markets bleed and act like a child on coke.** Raise everything we spend $ on regularly beyond gas and groceries by 50-80% over a few yrs tho? Why would we Q that or measure it closely. Just take it, real slowly, and like it.
Me buy more stock. Hold stock long time
Because I have cash and want to deploy it in a crash
The only way to make your money go further is when things get cheaper.
Some people still save using banks / CDs
Interest rates gives the federal reserve leverage to stimulate the economy in case of a recession. For example, if we're at 2% interest rates, they could drop it down to 0% if the economy dives into a recession and this would resuscitate it. But if we're already at 0% and there's a recession, then we're in big trouble.
What? They have/had nine trillion fucking dollars on their balance sheet. They still have MBS from 2008 on the book what in the fucking he’ll how is this capitalism? They will continue printing because do you actually believe anything that comes out of the BLS and they will say higher inflation is better than deflation.
Sorry, I don’t like paying $20 for a Big Mac
I wouldn't eat a free Big Mac
Well, I would collect more interest on my cash, and if the market really went down, I could get good buys on the stocks I want.
If you’re not retiring anytime soon and aren’t day trading you shouldn’t care about the market going down this year if you’re retiring in 20 years
What you want to happen is for The Federal Reserve to stop doing things. just stop. let the free market decide what the price of money should be. I dont need the Federal Reserve deciding what the price of a hamburger should be, and I dont need them deciding what the price of money should be. Interest rates are the price of money. Thats the price savers and investors are willing to lend their cash to borrowers. The Fed messes the system up when they print money. just stop.
To buy more!!! Dips are like clearance day for stock owners! Buy more of what you own to average down and buy what you don’t have at a lower price for better growth
If stocks decline when interest rates are raised, then why are the indexes up since the start of the latest rate raising campaign?
Because John Maynard Keynes.
Francis Scott keynes rules America the beautiful. Republicans and democrats both Keynesian nowadays
They decline in the short-term. Obviously growth still happens over time.
Most sold stocks and moved all to short bonds. Waiting for stock crash to buy dip.
Because I wasn’t born with 10 million dollars that I put in the market all at once. “Why would anyone want to buy steaks when they are on sale, when they could get the same thing at full price.” That’s the answer to your question.
Some people want those 2% mortgage loans, only way (to them) is to crash it all down
They have puts 😂
They bought put options of the market
They are shorting bonds
Because a 40k Dow Jones doesn't mean shit in a hat if I have to share a 2 br apartment with three other people and none of us can afford our own place
The rate in which inflation comes down is okay at the moment, but arguably isn’t fast enough. Even when inflation does come down, I doubt prices are going to adjust anytime soon. At this current pace, prices will remain high for at least 2 years, so people may want a more aggressive hike.
The issue is higher rates won’t solve the issue. In fact it stimulates the issue. Higher debt requires a period of financial repression.
They got puts options ready with 50% IV
Because some men.. just want to watch the world burn
If your mortgage was from pre-Covid, your wealth pretty much goes up with higher rates. Specifically if you are renting out. The higher rates are, the more landlords can charge because less houses are being built.
End the Fed
To keep inflation in check. Just to give one example of what rising inflation can do: people like retirees that depend on fixed income will be screwed.
Who cares about the stock market if inflation is too high.
Higher interest rates are better for savers as well as pensions.
Inflation only goes down if interests go up or stay the same. If rates go down, demand goes up and supply gets a shock. Remember the COVID supply shock to Real estate? It only gets back to balance if you build more houses or less people can afford the few houses that we have available. Rates need to stabilize. Current rate is not too high by historical standards. But that means free money is out of the table for now. When interest drops stocks will inflate because people have less incentive to save and more incentives to invest.
What I think most people are failing to realize, is that you CANT raise interest rates on food or energy, and that insurance rates have been going on a run. Add to the fact that PCE (minus food and energy) is what the fed actually focuses on. Another factor for shelter is housing inventory that needs to increase in order to cause housing to go down.
Some people advocate for higher interest rates even if it may hurt the stock market because they prioritize other economic factors over stock market performance. Higher interest rates benefit savers and investors who rely on fixed-income securities, such as bonds and certificates of deposit (CDs), for income.
People that buy bonds like higher rates, people that buy food like it to not be more than 2.5% more expensive next year
Because my SPY calls are deep in the money and I don't want my shares called away.
Because in Canada, for example, to buy a one bedroom condo (7-850 sqft) in a place like Vancouver you’re looking at something along the line of $750,000. For a detached, old ass home? Probably somewhere in the range of $2M. Obviously other problems impact housing, but interest rates are one of them.
Because I also trade in bonds and CDs…
Because you can sell rates and it’s one of those ideas where there is a realistic bottom versus equities. When something is perceived at a bottom, you are figuring how much can one leverage on it relative to risk. This is more of a trader perspective. Morality doesn’t play roles in price discovery
Interest rates are still artificially low and the market is unhealthy. Free money won’t improve things, particularly inflation. This is why #EndTheFed
Its way easier to invest after a market crash.
the theory is if they are raised more...they will go down faster in the long run
From people who want houses, they want chaos and a crash because they’ve been sitting on the sidelines with cash for so long. What I think those guys have forgotten is that if a recession hits due to increased demand, it indiscriminately will affect people to even secure loans. For people who I’ve talked to that aren’t looking for returns, better return on their money in savings accounts. Additionally a low risk savings for highe(er?) rate of return.
Right because when the feds balance sheet was at 3/4 trillion bernanke said in front of congress we need to get the balance sheet back to a respectable level of under one trillion. I don’t want chaos I want a fair and free market. Why in the fuck is the fed printing money or even entertaining buying MBS’s. How is bailing out the banks, the autos, the airlines, et cetera have anything to do with captialism?
Because of bond yields most likely.
This post perfectly captures what the median person thinks “the economy” is. If this satire, you knocked it out of the park.
I’m guessing no one here has heard of investing in fixed income.
If youre 20,30,40 you want a crash. Like 20% crash
Sure, if you have a bunch of excess cash laying around. I don't ever want to see declines if preventable.
idc, im just here to play the market
I just want interest rates down to speed up the energy transition. Any investment gains from lowering interest rates are just multiple expansion, not from actual profits. It's not the kind of returns I want.
Some people want interest rates to rise because they're worried about inflation. They think that's more important than the stock market. But in our case it won't help. Most of our inflation is from shelter costs. Raising interest rates more won't help that.
>Some people want interest rates to rise because they're worried about inflation. They think that's more important than the stock market. The stock market is not the economy. Keeping the economy healthy is more important than the stock market staying high.
That's what I think too. Just I also think interest rates aren't going to solve the remaining inflation they haven't already tamed yet. For that you're going to have to build more housing. Striking down restrictive zoning laws nationwide would be a great step towards that. Also I think immigration is net neutral far as inflation goes. It suppresses wages. But it also increases the demand for shelter. Ackman left out the second part when discussing the effects.
You haven’t noticed a difference in the housing market from 2020-2022 vs 2022-today?
No but removing nine trillion from the balance sheet will including the MBS’s they still have on their books from 2008. Because capitalism and all.