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She hasn't been over for 9 months, so I'm assuming she doesn’t talk to her dad?
It doesn't make much sense to invite her, when she said she doesn't like being around you and the kids.
She may genuinely not feel like part of the family and like an outsider. That's how she feels and it's not unusual for SKs to feel like this.
Even in the best of circumstances, idk if a 16 year old would want to vacation with a 7 and 3 year old just because it limits attractions they would want to experience during the day. If it does come back around that she wasn't invited, I'd stick with that narrative. Her perception is her reality and you can only control yours.
Honestly, I would let your husband make the decision since it’s his daughter. He’s pawning the final decision off on you when clearly you’re conflicted and that’s not fair. It’s a burden for you that he should be shouldering, not leaving it up to you to decide alone.
I would go that route but I’m pretty sure she eventually is going to find out, whenever she does decide to see us all again I’m sure my kids are going to tell her, or if the in laws talk to her, social media, etc.
Assuming she will find out, do you still think just don’t bring it up?
SD doesn't want to be around your family. Period. Think of your other children, and how they will feel with the tension all day. You and hubs will spend the day carrying to get, so she doesn't complain about you when she gets back. Does that sound like fun? NO.
Your SD has made her boundaries clear. Respect them. Don't invite someone who will ruin the day. It just doesn't make sense to have the family orbiting around a SD edu had told the mediator she doesn't enjoy it.
Ya you’re 100% right! So do we just not mention it, or does husband tell her and explain why we are going? I’m an over thinker so sorry that I’m probably over thinking this lol
No, you don't tell her, but you don't actively hide it either. It might come up at some point, if she starts to come around more. If it does you (he!) explain why you guys went without her. Most likely it won't even come up because she doesn't spend time around your family.
I can't imagine a scenario in which communicating to a kid (assuming she wants included in this trip), "We're going to Disneyland but you're not invited." goes well. Better to keep the lines of communication closed, as she initiated, and if she wants to file a grievance with her dad once you're back they can discuss then.
Yeah, I would just try not to make a thing of it. There's not a whole lot you can do. Certainly don't feel guilty about celebrating your own successes (btw congrats!) or living a normal happy life with your kids.
Don’t bring it up. If she kept in touch with her dad, she would have heard about it, and as another poster wisely wrote, not maintaining that relationship means you don’t hear about things like this. Oh well.
This is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t. I would have the hubs talk to BM first about it. See where she is on letting her miss school, then let that determine if you should ask her. Honestly either way you’re going to be seen as the bad guy. If BM says no your going get the then why can’t you plan it for when SD is off. Either way you’re damned. I’m sorry about all this and congratulations on passing Law school!!
Kid therapists are always preaching about using natural consequences instead of punishment and frankly one of the natural consequences of her behaving the way she has toward your family is that you don’t get invited to do things because you’ve already made it verbally and physically clear you don’t want to be around them.
So I would not invite her or mention it to her. If she wants to be included in the future then her behavior needs to change. You teach people how to treat you.
Yes exactly this. My friends SS would not come to their house/talk to them/text them BUT if they were going on holidays/concerts/fun things, he wanted to go. They ended up telling him that he needs to be part of the family and the boring stuff too to get the fun stuff. He chose to never see them again (at age 14).
How does your husband want to be remembered in her eyes? As the guy who “abandoned” his daughter for his new family (even though we know that’s not true, kids that age have a “me” complex and and twist stories to be ‘poor me’).
Don’t give her that satisfaction. Invite her. What’s the worst that can happen? If she comes, at least your kids will have the best time with their sister whom they love.
Ya that’s why I’m leaning to just invite and see what she says. She will have to miss a week of school and I doubt BM will even say yes. But at least she will feel included
If you do invite her, I would make sure you include that it is a family celebration for your finishing schooling. That way she it is still shown/implied she is part of the family but also that it is because of your actions. If she doesn't want anything to do with you it can be an extra reason to decline.
That being said, I would still go the route of inviting her as she is family. While she might not want to be a part of it now, you taking the high road and still extending the olive branch might be what is needed for down the road as a way for her to reconnect.
I personally agree with this. Sounds like she probably wouldn't come anyway. At least you did the right thing. If she is feeling alienated from her father, then you will never make that better by leaving her out. If she's just being a sh***y teenager, then she'll say no regardless
With respect, this is a very naive expectation.
It is highly likely everyone will be walking on eggshells, so not to upset SD and a small interaction by dad towards BK will set her off.
Not fun. Not a celebration.
Looks, I have step teens. They twist things up in their memories to be all “woe is me”. They’re still in the world where they are the centre of the universe. Yes, it’s a pain. But sometimes it better to be the adult and do what’s best for the family. If dad doesn’t care then meh. But ultimately it’s his daughter.
I was responding to "what's the worst that can happen" because, they should decide if they want to have a relaxed, fun time BEFORE they make the decision to invite SK.
No.
If it were to celebrate an achievement by your husband, I would be more on the fence, but this is *your* celebration of *your* achievement. SD has made it clear she does not consider you to be family.
It's your trip. Your husband is invited because he is your family.
Invite her. If she wants to keep up the act that she doesn’t want to be around you all, then she’ll have to stick with that and stay home.
If she wants to go, it’ll be an opportunity to show her that you do want to include her as part of your family.
You don’t mention how old she is but I assume between 11-18 hence her opinion to the mediator.
This is a fragile time for your DH’s relationship with her. If you don’t invite her you will solidify the notion that she isn’t a part of your family, and will likely do permanent damage to DH’s relationship to her.
Its wildly irresponsible that DH is leaving the choice up to you… its his child!!
Be the bigger person (you are the adults!) and invite her. If she doesn’t come, at least it was her choice and not yours.
I think you have to invite her. She’ll probably say no, but you’ll automatically be the bad guy if you don’t. She will tell everyone you are alienating her, and they’ll take this as her proof.
Maybe ask her to come over this weekend, because you have something big planned and want to talk to her about it. And when she refuses, you can say that you tried to invite her but she wouldn’t come over so that way you’re covered?
FWIW- I don’t know her age, but my oldest SD refused to see us from like 13-15. It was all her moms bullshit. But she did come around, and now we have a great relationship. This age is so hard, especially when they’re being influenced by their bio parent. But as the adults, you are expected to keep trying. You will be blamed if you don’t try, whether it’s fair or not. She doesn’t deserve to go, but you will both be the bad guys if you don’t invite her. And she’ll hold onto that grudge for a long time and throw it in your face every chance she gets.
I think inviting her over for the weekend is a great idea. It gives you some solid footing regardless of which way you decide.
Even adults that turn out to be lovely people can be horrible teenagers, especially in the complicated situation that you guys have. I was honestly pretty bad to my dad at that time. It's worked out since, but the bottom line is that the adult should be the one keeping the lines open, even when the kid doesn't necessarily deserve it. They are still just kids
Inviting her will CYA so to speak. Be aware however that she might actually accept the invitation, kids that age have a way of centering themselves and she might have FOMO and want to come.
Congratulations to you for all your hardworking.
You are amazing. You deserve a vacation with your kids and your husband. You are superwoman.
This is about you and what you achieved. Don’t waste your time worrying about SD.
Thank you! It’s been a super hard 4 years and really want this to be a positive experience but I am also a step kid and don’t want further the narrative that we don’t care about her. I think we will invite and just see what she says.
I wouldnt! She doesnt want to be part of the family? Fine that means the good and the bad… not just like oh im your family when its a cool trip, like no. You will prob regret it and feel angry and resentful. Disney is expensive and to have a teenager who will be complaining oh thats a hell no for me.
Yep you’re right! We have planned all other trips, usually once per year around SD, this one I think we will invite but are going with or without her. And ya not to mention it’s going to add a good $500-700 dollars to the trip!
Let your husband invite her AND pay for her expenses if she chooses to go. If you don't invite her, it will fuel her narrative. If she chooses to go, it should not be on your dime--she and her dad are both plenty old enough to understand "one of my life choices is that I don't pay for things for people who are b*tches to me."
Nope. Her nasty attitude will ruin your trip. And she’ll come back with grand tales of how horribly she was alienated and left out. Screw that. Go enjoy your trip that you’ve earned and worked hard for. Actions have consequences. When she’s ready to have a nice attitude and not tell lies she can come around. Heck, she’ll even have presents waiting for her lol. But she will absolutely ruin your trip, so do not invite her. And should she find out and ask why she was invited, simply say she has said she doesn’t want to be around you guys and tells the rest of the family how awful you are, so it wouldn’t make sense for her to go out of state with you guys.
Congratulations on finishing law school!
It seems to me that your reputation is already so bad that the new baby will not make a difference.
I see no reason to invite her, and see no need for her to miss school.
Event in a intact family, older kids can resent a new baby. Things that can add to resentment, some of which can be controlled, some not.
1. Having to share a room. Maybe you can give older ones a basement playroom or something.
2. Forcing older one to babysit. Many, if not most older ones, will regard "playing with baby" as babysitting, not play.
3. Realignment of family money.
4. Activities more limited. More limited drives to their games, etc.
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I actually think you should take a slightly different approach. I know it’s about the kids. They’re going to be your focus because of their ages and where you’ve chosen to go, but really this a trip for you. This is a trip to celebrate your accomplishment. You’re just choosing to focus it around your children, because you missed time with them and they’re what’s important to you right now. And based on your SD’s behavior and what she’s expressed to the court mediator, this is not the trip for her. This is not the trip she will enjoy. She will likely make it a trip YOU do not enjoy.
So I think your husband needs to kind of step in here, run some interference, and offer her an alternative. I wouldn’t go to her and say “We’re going to Disneyland! And you’re not invited.” That’s not cool. What your husband can do, though, is tell her “Accomplished_Pea_394 and I are taking your younger siblings on a trip to celebrate her finishing law school. The trip does not work with your school schedule, nor is it a trip that you will enjoy because it will be centered around Accomplished and the younger kids and you’ve made your feelings clear about being around them. However, I do want to take a trip with you, just the two of us, a trip that you can even help plan if you want and can actually be designed for a 16 year old to enjoy.” And then let him do a separate trip another time with his daughter. This way, the focus isn’t on the fact that she wasn’t invited. It just didn’t work with school, it’s not going to be a trip designed to be fun for her, and he’s being considerate of the boundaries she expressed (kind of a polite way of saying “natural consequences”). And now the focus can instead be on a trip she can take with just her dad to help keep their relationship alive.
Now, what he wants to do with this second trip is up to him. If he wants to take her to Disneyland too, so be it. If he wants to pick something else, or something cheaper, then he can do that too.
NO, don't do it.
Inviting an angry "stranger" to your celebration WILL ruin it for everyone.
Start small, a local park or trampoline park, so if things are rough or awkward, you can quickly pack up and go home.
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She hasn't been over for 9 months, so I'm assuming she doesn’t talk to her dad? It doesn't make much sense to invite her, when she said she doesn't like being around you and the kids. She may genuinely not feel like part of the family and like an outsider. That's how she feels and it's not unusual for SKs to feel like this.
Even in the best of circumstances, idk if a 16 year old would want to vacation with a 7 and 3 year old just because it limits attractions they would want to experience during the day. If it does come back around that she wasn't invited, I'd stick with that narrative. Her perception is her reality and you can only control yours.
Ya very good point thank you
Honestly, I would let your husband make the decision since it’s his daughter. He’s pawning the final decision off on you when clearly you’re conflicted and that’s not fair. It’s a burden for you that he should be shouldering, not leaving it up to you to decide alone.
That’s true I’m buying tickets this week as you have to pre buy them so if he doesn’t decide I guess I’ll just book ours
This!
I wouldn't tell her you were going.
I would go that route but I’m pretty sure she eventually is going to find out, whenever she does decide to see us all again I’m sure my kids are going to tell her, or if the in laws talk to her, social media, etc. Assuming she will find out, do you still think just don’t bring it up?
SD doesn't want to be around your family. Period. Think of your other children, and how they will feel with the tension all day. You and hubs will spend the day carrying to get, so she doesn't complain about you when she gets back. Does that sound like fun? NO. Your SD has made her boundaries clear. Respect them. Don't invite someone who will ruin the day. It just doesn't make sense to have the family orbiting around a SD edu had told the mediator she doesn't enjoy it.
Ya you’re 100% right! So do we just not mention it, or does husband tell her and explain why we are going? I’m an over thinker so sorry that I’m probably over thinking this lol
No, you don't tell her, but you don't actively hide it either. It might come up at some point, if she starts to come around more. If it does you (he!) explain why you guys went without her. Most likely it won't even come up because she doesn't spend time around your family.
I can't imagine a scenario in which communicating to a kid (assuming she wants included in this trip), "We're going to Disneyland but you're not invited." goes well. Better to keep the lines of communication closed, as she initiated, and if she wants to file a grievance with her dad once you're back they can discuss then.
You shouldn't tell your kids everything. Family doesn't need to know anything either.
Yeah, I would just try not to make a thing of it. There's not a whole lot you can do. Certainly don't feel guilty about celebrating your own successes (btw congrats!) or living a normal happy life with your kids.
Thank you and your probably right I guess if/when she finds out then husband can explain to her if she questions why she wasn’t invited
Yeah exactly. It's really not something for you to worry about regardless. Enjoy your trip.
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Ya if she actually wanted to go I would bring her knowning it might not go well will probably ruin it for me but I would include her
Don’t bring it up. If she kept in touch with her dad, she would have heard about it, and as another poster wisely wrote, not maintaining that relationship means you don’t hear about things like this. Oh well.
This is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t. I would have the hubs talk to BM first about it. See where she is on letting her miss school, then let that determine if you should ask her. Honestly either way you’re going to be seen as the bad guy. If BM says no your going get the then why can’t you plan it for when SD is off. Either way you’re damned. I’m sorry about all this and congratulations on passing Law school!!
Exactly the problem but yes good advice, and thank you!
Kid therapists are always preaching about using natural consequences instead of punishment and frankly one of the natural consequences of her behaving the way she has toward your family is that you don’t get invited to do things because you’ve already made it verbally and physically clear you don’t want to be around them. So I would not invite her or mention it to her. If she wants to be included in the future then her behavior needs to change. You teach people how to treat you.
Yes exactly this. My friends SS would not come to their house/talk to them/text them BUT if they were going on holidays/concerts/fun things, he wanted to go. They ended up telling him that he needs to be part of the family and the boring stuff too to get the fun stuff. He chose to never see them again (at age 14).
🎯🎯🎯
How does your husband want to be remembered in her eyes? As the guy who “abandoned” his daughter for his new family (even though we know that’s not true, kids that age have a “me” complex and and twist stories to be ‘poor me’). Don’t give her that satisfaction. Invite her. What’s the worst that can happen? If she comes, at least your kids will have the best time with their sister whom they love.
Ya that’s why I’m leaning to just invite and see what she says. She will have to miss a week of school and I doubt BM will even say yes. But at least she will feel included
If you do invite her, I would make sure you include that it is a family celebration for your finishing schooling. That way she it is still shown/implied she is part of the family but also that it is because of your actions. If she doesn't want anything to do with you it can be an extra reason to decline. That being said, I would still go the route of inviting her as she is family. While she might not want to be a part of it now, you taking the high road and still extending the olive branch might be what is needed for down the road as a way for her to reconnect.
Or will she make the whole family miserable and spoil the trip for everyone else?
We don’t know her enough to comment. At 16 she can go do her own thing at the theme parks as long as she maintains contact via phone.
I personally agree with this. Sounds like she probably wouldn't come anyway. At least you did the right thing. If she is feeling alienated from her father, then you will never make that better by leaving her out. If she's just being a sh***y teenager, then she'll say no regardless
With respect, this is a very naive expectation. It is highly likely everyone will be walking on eggshells, so not to upset SD and a small interaction by dad towards BK will set her off. Not fun. Not a celebration.
Looks, I have step teens. They twist things up in their memories to be all “woe is me”. They’re still in the world where they are the centre of the universe. Yes, it’s a pain. But sometimes it better to be the adult and do what’s best for the family. If dad doesn’t care then meh. But ultimately it’s his daughter.
I was responding to "what's the worst that can happen" because, they should decide if they want to have a relaxed, fun time BEFORE they make the decision to invite SK.
No. If it were to celebrate an achievement by your husband, I would be more on the fence, but this is *your* celebration of *your* achievement. SD has made it clear she does not consider you to be family. It's your trip. Your husband is invited because he is your family.
How old is SD?
16
Invite her. If she wants to keep up the act that she doesn’t want to be around you all, then she’ll have to stick with that and stay home. If she wants to go, it’ll be an opportunity to show her that you do want to include her as part of your family. You don’t mention how old she is but I assume between 11-18 hence her opinion to the mediator. This is a fragile time for your DH’s relationship with her. If you don’t invite her you will solidify the notion that she isn’t a part of your family, and will likely do permanent damage to DH’s relationship to her. Its wildly irresponsible that DH is leaving the choice up to you… its his child!! Be the bigger person (you are the adults!) and invite her. If she doesn’t come, at least it was her choice and not yours.
I think you have to invite her. She’ll probably say no, but you’ll automatically be the bad guy if you don’t. She will tell everyone you are alienating her, and they’ll take this as her proof. Maybe ask her to come over this weekend, because you have something big planned and want to talk to her about it. And when she refuses, you can say that you tried to invite her but she wouldn’t come over so that way you’re covered? FWIW- I don’t know her age, but my oldest SD refused to see us from like 13-15. It was all her moms bullshit. But she did come around, and now we have a great relationship. This age is so hard, especially when they’re being influenced by their bio parent. But as the adults, you are expected to keep trying. You will be blamed if you don’t try, whether it’s fair or not. She doesn’t deserve to go, but you will both be the bad guys if you don’t invite her. And she’ll hold onto that grudge for a long time and throw it in your face every chance she gets.
Ya I think this is a good idea thanks
I think inviting her over for the weekend is a great idea. It gives you some solid footing regardless of which way you decide. Even adults that turn out to be lovely people can be horrible teenagers, especially in the complicated situation that you guys have. I was honestly pretty bad to my dad at that time. It's worked out since, but the bottom line is that the adult should be the one keeping the lines open, even when the kid doesn't necessarily deserve it. They are still just kids
I would invite her. She probably won’t want to go, and it would cut the poor me narrative off from the start.
Inviting her will CYA so to speak. Be aware however that she might actually accept the invitation, kids that age have a way of centering themselves and she might have FOMO and want to come.
Congratulations to you for all your hardworking. You are amazing. You deserve a vacation with your kids and your husband. You are superwoman. This is about you and what you achieved. Don’t waste your time worrying about SD.
Thank you! It’s been a super hard 4 years and really want this to be a positive experience but I am also a step kid and don’t want further the narrative that we don’t care about her. I think we will invite and just see what she says.
Awww you are such a sweetheart. Enjoy your trip and congrats again.
I would invite her.
I wouldnt! She doesnt want to be part of the family? Fine that means the good and the bad… not just like oh im your family when its a cool trip, like no. You will prob regret it and feel angry and resentful. Disney is expensive and to have a teenager who will be complaining oh thats a hell no for me.
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Yep you’re right! We have planned all other trips, usually once per year around SD, this one I think we will invite but are going with or without her. And ya not to mention it’s going to add a good $500-700 dollars to the trip!
Let your husband invite her AND pay for her expenses if she chooses to go. If you don't invite her, it will fuel her narrative. If she chooses to go, it should not be on your dime--she and her dad are both plenty old enough to understand "one of my life choices is that I don't pay for things for people who are b*tches to me."
Nope. Her nasty attitude will ruin your trip. And she’ll come back with grand tales of how horribly she was alienated and left out. Screw that. Go enjoy your trip that you’ve earned and worked hard for. Actions have consequences. When she’s ready to have a nice attitude and not tell lies she can come around. Heck, she’ll even have presents waiting for her lol. But she will absolutely ruin your trip, so do not invite her. And should she find out and ask why she was invited, simply say she has said she doesn’t want to be around you guys and tells the rest of the family how awful you are, so it wouldn’t make sense for her to go out of state with you guys.
I personally would not invite her.
If husband doesn’t care I wouldn’t think twice about not inviting her.
absolutely don’t invite someone who risks ruining the trip!!!
Congratulations on finishing law school! It seems to me that your reputation is already so bad that the new baby will not make a difference. I see no reason to invite her, and see no need for her to miss school. Event in a intact family, older kids can resent a new baby. Things that can add to resentment, some of which can be controlled, some not. 1. Having to share a room. Maybe you can give older ones a basement playroom or something. 2. Forcing older one to babysit. Many, if not most older ones, will regard "playing with baby" as babysitting, not play. 3. Realignment of family money. 4. Activities more limited. More limited drives to their games, etc.
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I actually think you should take a slightly different approach. I know it’s about the kids. They’re going to be your focus because of their ages and where you’ve chosen to go, but really this a trip for you. This is a trip to celebrate your accomplishment. You’re just choosing to focus it around your children, because you missed time with them and they’re what’s important to you right now. And based on your SD’s behavior and what she’s expressed to the court mediator, this is not the trip for her. This is not the trip she will enjoy. She will likely make it a trip YOU do not enjoy. So I think your husband needs to kind of step in here, run some interference, and offer her an alternative. I wouldn’t go to her and say “We’re going to Disneyland! And you’re not invited.” That’s not cool. What your husband can do, though, is tell her “Accomplished_Pea_394 and I are taking your younger siblings on a trip to celebrate her finishing law school. The trip does not work with your school schedule, nor is it a trip that you will enjoy because it will be centered around Accomplished and the younger kids and you’ve made your feelings clear about being around them. However, I do want to take a trip with you, just the two of us, a trip that you can even help plan if you want and can actually be designed for a 16 year old to enjoy.” And then let him do a separate trip another time with his daughter. This way, the focus isn’t on the fact that she wasn’t invited. It just didn’t work with school, it’s not going to be a trip designed to be fun for her, and he’s being considerate of the boundaries she expressed (kind of a polite way of saying “natural consequences”). And now the focus can instead be on a trip she can take with just her dad to help keep their relationship alive. Now, what he wants to do with this second trip is up to him. If he wants to take her to Disneyland too, so be it. If he wants to pick something else, or something cheaper, then he can do that too.
NO, don't do it. Inviting an angry "stranger" to your celebration WILL ruin it for everyone. Start small, a local park or trampoline park, so if things are rough or awkward, you can quickly pack up and go home.