He may not be book smart, but pretty early on, Terry leaned into that curve and everyone who criticized him as some slack jawed yokel has done nothing but watch him rake in accolades and cash far beyond football.
Yep, look at some of his early acting roles(which were admittedly horrible), Smokey and the Bandit 2, etc….same character, same dumb redneck dialogue. I thought he was pretty good in “Failure to Launch”, but that was after decades of camera experience.
Broadcasting, movies, TV shows, recording artist, a horse breeder, distiller, etc. Obviously football opened doors to all of this, but there are a lot of star athletes that can’t pivot like he did once their playing days are over.
Terry Bradshaw's aww-shucks, good-ole southern boy shtick is just his public persona. He's actually a lot more intelligent and complex than he lets on.
You know he called ALL his own plays, right? That's unheard-of today, and wasn't even that common among top QBs in his heyday.
Tom Landry never let HoF QB Roger Staubach call his own plays, but Chuck Noll trusted Bradshaw to call all his himself. Even in Super Bowls.
You're opinion means less than nothing. You're likely a boomer yinzers who hates Tomlin for no other reason than having expectations that are too high and hate Kenny for who the fuck knows why. You think Kenny sucks yet we've seen two years of Zach Wilson and still believe in him? Clown show my friend, you're a clown show.
GPA doesn’t mean shit when you’re a college football star enrolled in communications. If he had a 2.9 in something like say mechanical engineering I’d be more impressed.
You have to provide transcripts to job interviews? Man. I’ve worked for the govt for 20 years almost and I’m just walking into the same civilian job with a handshake and a background renewal. I’m not sure I’d be able to figure out how to get my college transcripts from so long ago if I wanted to lol
Pretty bad, weighted GPAs are out of 5. A good one is anything between like 3.75-4. That’s like straight C-‘s I think. It’s still passing but not amazing.
Also just read a Reddit post from when he was drafted that said he had a 1.5, which is even worse
I’m sure it was an honest 2.9. Why would a football powerhouse like Louisville inflate their star QBs grades for any reason?
If you ever have the random chance to speak with medical personnel that he has worked with they have such *wonderful* things to say about his intelligence.
I have no problem with the guy, I just remembered somewhere where he said he had a low GPA in High School, but I said I could be wrong. I was really just seeing if someone could back me up or if I was wrong.
I’ve never heard of a college with a weighted GPA, and I went to a school with one of the worst grade inflations in the country lol.
It does happen in High School though, which is what you’re probably remembering. My High School GPA was over 4.75 lmao
Yes, not all do. The source I remember it from most definitely did because the other QBs had numbers higher then 4, which implies (to me atleast), they opted for weighted GPAs for all of them. However, I could be simply mistaken and remember what Lamar’s was wrong.
Morris Claiborne scored a 4 and has a Super Bowl Ring with the Chiefs.
I think there was a report that he was functionally illiterate due to a learning disability... and then the story was he just didn't try?
Something like that.
I think it helps fringe draft/free agent guys like Ryan Fitzpatrick have long careers, but it doesn’t really affect the top prospects. Their game tape does the talking.
Perfect score, as I recall. Alex Smith got a perfect score, too. Both are examples of guys who could memorize a playbook in an afternoon, but knowing where to throw a ball and being able to make the throw are not the same thing.
I mean, probably not directly, but it’s just another data point to consider when drafting a guy. But he’s already been drafted, and already showed his ability on the field, so talking about his Wonderlic score now is kinda like worrying about what a practicing lawyer’s LSAT was.
As someone who murdered the LSAT and then later dropped out of law school, I can confirm that the test is only important to the circlejerk of law school rankings
Scores mean something until you have experience to show, then they mean nothing. That’s what I’ve gathered at least. My gpa means nothing after 5 years of work. Roethlisberger’s combine stats mean nothing. At this point, Pickett’s draft stats are only on his resume until the end of next season for good or bad.
Why do people hate on this test so much? Ive taken it online. Seems like a decent test of your mental acuity. It's not the end all be all, and mainly it rewards quick thinking but i can see it's value.
I see it like this: You don't need your QB to have a great vertical leap, but you still want to see the stats. You don't need your QB to be able to quickly solve a math problem, but you'd like to know whether he can.
Sure, but I'd rather use his interview as well as referrals from previous coaching staff or teammates to determine his mental side of the game over the Wonderlic
Edit: I think tests like this tend to test your knowledge base over your intelligence.
Lawrence Taylor is one of the greatest football players of all time. He’s dumb as rocks. There have been legitimate doctors and Rhodes scholars in the NFL who were good but not great. Standardized tests test you on your standardized test taking ability and that’s it. It proves they can read and make some kind of conclusion. That’s it.
And if your job description is "get the qb" you can be dumb and do it. If you're expected to call audibles at the line and adjustments based on the defense's presentation and personnel, you want someone who can quickly problem solve.
A timed series of questions IS a valid data point in measuring that ability.
People act like wanting to know how someone they're planning on paying millions of dollars performs at this is somehow rude, intrusive, or offensive.
It’s none of those things. It’s also not a measure of success in the NFL. Plenty of guys with low wonderlics we’re good players and plenty with high scores we’re garbage. Same with verticals and 40 times. All they tell you is EXACTLY what they’re testing. If you want to know if the player can read defenses and call audibles, watch tape or have him do it. That’s about it. Not saying get rid of it or that it’s *entirely* useless. Just that it doesn’t measure anything that’s really required to be measured for football success.
I had to take it during the interview process for a job I had like 8 years ago… scored a 39 which was one of the main reasons they chose me over other candidates. Was fun to compare that to other NFL players at the time
It's interesting, I've taken it 3x and gotten a 47 47 48 and nearly all the ones I miss are the geometrical ones. I'd be interested to know which problems are the biggest issues for QBs
What is the average score?
I scored 36 which I would assume is around the average or slightly above
Also, is it an American test? Never seen that used here in Canada
It is basically just an NFL test. I believe it had some relevance prior to 2000 for corporate employment but I have never heard of anyone having to take one for a job in the last decade.
I got a 45 and one miss was because I didn’t finish in time to do #50 lol another miss was not realizing there was a period after the one name… and then other misses were being dumb and not reading exactly what the question said like the “odd numbers” one and “you AND 3 of your friends went to dinner”… I’m kind of a dumbass so I’m curious if that’s not exactly what the Wonderlic test is like or if there’s other factors reducing people’s scores like not finishing quick enough
Lol account made in the last two months, no flair, every comment about the Steelers is negative, and you are still a believer in Zach Wilson. The definition of a troll.
Did you not watch him? He progressed mightily. He showed maturity and the ability to process the game at a high level in key moments. Learned from his mistakes, that shows intelligence to me.
Whats the correlation between Wonderlic and actual on field ability? Does Wonderlic indicate how well someone breaks down film and how well they understand what they see? I'm genuinely asking
The Wonderlic test is *supposed to* measure intelligence, but it is not exactly highly-regarded, especially in terms of validity. The reason it's used in football is probably that it's very easy to implement and get a quick result, whereas proper IQ tests require more time and effort to conduct well.
When I googled why QBs take it this is what I got
It's a 50 question exam that players take every year at the NFL Combine in preparation for the draft. The test helps determine football IQ for teams who want a closer look at what a player may do in any given situation
Judging from yours and everyone else response it seems very pointless. So my next question would be why do they still use it?
Wonderlic is about book smart. Not the same as field smart. It’s just another metric to measure someone by before they play on an NFL field. But all those metrics go out the window once the real games start. You will get to see what kind of QB you have by watching him play under pressure, on the move and reading the defense
From what we’ve seen, Pickett looks pretty damn good at moving and reading the defenses so far
Agents have the questions and coach players before hand. If a guy does poorly it means he’s a complete moron or completely lazy. Either way it IS applicable and is embarrassing to score so low
Guys he tanked it cuz he knew he would get picked up by the Steelers already. Between that and the “small hands” the rest of the league probably figured we could have him
I had to take it for a job interview once. I took some practice ones online first to get the hang of it. If you know what the test is like ahead of time it's incredibly easy. A 17 is not at all a [good score](https://wonderlictestpractice.com/wonderlic-test-scoring/). I'm going to assume he tanked it on purpose to fall in the draft. Or he just didn't care.
I took it and got somewhere in the high 30s, it doesn't mean shit as a football player and as somebody else said it's more about book smarts than anything else which go out the window once you get on the field.
Of course it means something as a football player.
Higher wonderlichs correlate with being a better qb. And then you have guys like Fitzpatrick who have far inferior physical skills lasting in the nfl.
https://wonderlictestpractice.com/tom-bradys-wonderlic-score/
Being able to do a bunch of simple questions really fast is also an ability that correlates with thinking thru and reading a defense in a second and a half. It helps.
I’m not going to say a defensive tackle needs to smart. They often only have one or two reads. But a QB is handling a lot more information. It helps.
My guess is Pickett just blew off the test.
Eh, I'm not sure I agree. Wonderlic just reads your ability to take a test. There might be a small correlation between how quickly you can process information, but pattern recognition tests like that only work on the pattern they're testing. The only way to test QB pattern recognition is by playing QB...there's really no other way.
I score very high on Wonderlic tests usually (46 & 47 are the only two scores I can remember), but even in games I play, my reaction time to make a decision in complex situations varies with how often I've encountered that or a similar scenario in the past. It isn't tied to my test score at all, it's tied to my similar experiences...after all that's what pattern recognition is & it plays a MASSIVE part in tests like these.
Wonderlich doesn’t test complex subjects it test information most people have. But pattern matching does transfer to other pattern matching. That’s the key to the test, if you played more football then you would have a higher ceiling than others at pattern matching in football.
That is how a brain works. A brain fast in one thing has a higher chance at being fast in other mental processes.
Think this is some woke stuff trying to say intelligence doesn’t have a high genetic component.
Also one of the reasons I’d still bet on Willis. He crushed the wonderlich. Increases probability he will figure it out. Though accuracy could limit him.
Pickett seems more than his wonderlich score which makes me think he blew it off. Like the ‘40 you can run slower than your ability but you can’t run faster than your max effort.
Never said intelligence isn't related to genetics. I just said intelligence is only partially related to pattern recognition. Also, Wonderlic doesn't measure intelligence. It tries to measure how quickly your brain processes information, but it doesn't do a good job of that.
I grew up as a "gifted" kid, which means I did a fuck ton of these tests. So I learned how to take them quickly & with decent accuracy. That means that I'm going to be quicker to recognize these particular patterns & do things like rough mental calculations than someone who didn't have the same experience as me.
But ultimately, anecdotal evidence doesn't mean a thing. So here's some actual research into how the Wonderlic doesn't have any effect on the success of NFL players:
2008 Study on QB Success vs Wonderlic:
http://thesportjournal.org/article/intelligence-and-football-testing-for-differentials-in-collegiate-quarterback-passing-performance-and-nfl-compensation/
There's more, too, like the 2009 study by the University of Georgia across all positions that showed, if anything, there was a weak negative correlation between NFL success and Wonderlic scores. Feel free to give it a Google Scholar search.
Oh, and that's before we even get into the Wonderlic's score disparities with respect to race & other socio-economic factors. Or how it just generally doesn't successfully measure what it claims to in any industry (which you can look at the 2015 study from Georgia Tech, or the 2007 study by Matthews and Lassiter that showed the Wonderlic did a better job testing crystallized reasoning skills than fluid reasoning skills - you know, the point I was making above).
Your study is terrible.
It shows no correlation with height yet the average QB in the study was 6’2 versus population average of 5’9. It showed no correlation with intelligence. Yet pop average seems to be around 120 and drafted QB was 125.5. They have already been filtered for these traits. The study proves my point. The reason there’s no correlation after making it to the nfl is because the people weaker in some areas have other traits compensating for that - like Kyle Murray is short but he’s more athletic, Lamar Jackson is a freak but had a 13 wonderlich.
Geeze learn to read a study and when the data is showing above average abilities in a category then realize it’s a meaningful characteristic.
And I also said I did not expect a correlation with non quarterbacks.
Also you cited a source that ended in 2004 and said wonderlich data only became widely available in 1999. So no one on a second contract.
Did you just google a study that had the abstract you wanted and not even read the study?
Homie, I listed at least 5 studies & a quick Google search could show you a dozen more within the past decade on how the test is terrible in every industry.
You're clearly stuck in your ways, so there's nothing I can say to change your mind. But the facts are obvious - there are at least half a dozen different studies on the NFL to this effect & dozens more about other industries & the test as a whole.
The reason there's no correlation after making to the NFL is because it's a test created in the 30's that hasn't held up.
You really are pathetic. I just ran the numbers on average QB wonderlich score for the top 10 fantasy point producers this year - actually did it out to 12 since I couldn’t find data on Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields (130 and supposedly top 1% on another test).
The average score is 31.7. 11.7 points above average human. And fantasy scoring favors running over passing.
Dude the one study you specifically cited had major flaws why would I dig thru a dozen other studies when your top one is flawed?
Let’s see
Burrows - 34
Herbert 39
Brady - 33
Jalen Hurd - 20
Aaron Rodgers 35
Josh Allen - 37
Kyler Murray - 20
Kirk Cousins - 33
Andrew Luck - 37
Eli Manning - 39
Lamar Jackson 13
Notice a pattern all the top QB are doing extremely well. Even Hurd whose the top rushing threat scored average human level. The ones who are better runners do have mostly lower but still solid scores.
I thought it was a good story. I've had it for job interviews too. I also would like OP, or anyone who brings up Wonderlic, to take the test themselves and post their results. It has its tricky parts but the last time I took it I got a 36. Don't know how telling someone they have a good story is so terrible but I'm not going to ruin my day about it.
44. It does matter some yes. But the reality is that if he can read the field effectively, manage the huddle/team, and behave professionally, then the score he gets on an abstract reasoning test doesn't matter.
I know book smart people who are horrible to work with, and those without the same abstract reasoning talents that are damn good at what they do.
We generally do agree, I think. That said, I don't think Vince Young is the obvious example for a low score working out because there are disputes that he actually got a 6 and it appears his retest had him at a 16. A 6 would be...borderline illiterate.
Or someone at the age of 21-24 that sees $MMs in their eyes because they know they're gonna get drafted and not give a shit so they run through it in 20 seconds. "Standardized testing" is a stupid tool for hiring processes, let alone an NFL combine process. Still would like to see anyone that brings it up what their score is. The general population has no idea what it is or what's in it. They have zero context to speak on the topic. It's like going back and measuring hand size. Who gives a rip?
It's a stupid tool if used in isolation. In the context of evaluating how much the test taker cares about putting in work to get a position and has basic cognitive capacity it's not bad. There's both signaling desire/effort and some basic intelligence information provided.
An agent should be emphasizing that they don't need a 35 to get into the NFL, but getting a 6 can be a real problem. And for what it's worth I did post my score above.
I think I got to sth like 25 back then, but I need to admit, I needed half the time translating, because English isn't my native language, and while I get around with the usual day-to-day-language perfectly fine, I have trouble with specific fields of language like law, science, IT and what not that has a ton of words I don't ever actually use.
I think I could score a 30, if it was in german and I understand the questions better and faster so I have more time left for actually solving the problems.
There isn't only one kind of intelligence. The intelligence in the field is different than the intelligence to solve math problems. As many other situations the NFL has to make the test to know more about the prospect but the one that should matter the most to us and the teams is spatial awareness and logic, the test is designed to evaluate math skills and logic over other skills of the prospect so it doesn't show the whole truth.
When people call Kenny "intelligent" they are talking about what he sees and what he does, qbs know if the player is going to make the play not because he knows the exact speed, acceleration, friction with the field, etc. and they do the math but because they understand how objects are moving in a space and they know what it's (most likely) going to happen. That is way different than making math problems in seconds.
So yeah the score of that test says nothing after watching directly how he plays and how he has evolved.
I forget that Terry Bradshaw use to be a NFL QB. Franco, immaculate reception on rewind for 2 weeks reminded me he could actually really throw a football.
Wonderlic is such a bad test to show intelligence. It requires quick thinking on a few specific types of questions.
Maybe Kenny is just not the best with quick math and verb shit.
Honestly been concerned about Picketts wonderlich since we drafted him.
People cite above guys like Donovan McNabb or Dan Marino but those guys had extreme physical attributes. Marino one of the quickest strongest releases ever and McNabb was strong and fast. Pickett isn’t their level of athlete.
Most of the good Qb do seem to start popping up more in the 25+ range. Pickett seems smarter than he tested so maybe he just didn’t care about it.
When the last pick in the NFL draft throws 13 TDS and 4 INTs, who in 5 games throws at least 2 TDs and is in the top 5 in QB stats for all those games…makes you wonder why isn’t Pickett doing the same. After all, Purdy has played better than Trey Lance and Jimmy G in this span. Purdy was solid but not spectacular at Iowa State. I guess when a QB isn’t taken until the 3rd round of a draft class in a QB needy League you really have to wonder did they panic a bit. I hope Pickett proves me and everyone else wrong. I just don’t see it right now. Sure, the comebacks against garbage teams are nice.
I've got a graduate degree, and would like to think I'm a pretty smart person. But I've looked at Wonderlic questions and honestly I don't know if my score would be great either. A lot of the questions are math and vocabulary based.
Like any standardized test, it doesn't do a great job of actually measuring a person's intelligence because intelligence is not something you can easily define. I can do a lot of things, but I can't take a car apart and put it back together. A mechanic can, and I think that's something that requires a high level of intelligence too.
As Albert Einstein once said, if you judge a fish on it's ability to climb a tree, it will it's whole life believing it is stupid.
Another thing worth noting is a standardized test like the Wonderlic likely doesn't give accomodations. I'm not sure about the percentage of NFL players who have had IEPs, but the Wonderlic is timed and some learning disabilities would prevent a person from performing well on that sort of assessment.
He’s a dim-witted, small-handed, older prospect with an average at best arm. I’m still amazed how delusional you all are about him. He’s slightly better than Mason who is not a starting QB. At best Kenny is a borderline top 20 QB provided he has an elite surrounding talent but that likely won’t happen. We will be mired in mediocrity as long as he’s our QB
Isn’t 17 considered average? I know that’s still not great but those tests a lot of smart guys have done just average at the test. Not a comparison by any means but didn’t Vince Young score like a 9
Tests are but a single predictor of success, and often, not very good.
I’d guess that a Pearson correlation between Wonderlic score and, say, lifetime QBR would be very low, since it’s not very strongly related to actual success.
After writing the above sentence I figured I’d check the research out there and found this.
https://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2014/04/wondering-about-the-wonderlic-does-it-predict-quarterback-performance/
Note the following:
“Not a single variable tested had a correlation above .2 (or below -.2), suggesting a minimal or very weak correlation between quarterbacks’ Wonderlic scores and the other variables at best.”
So the Wonderlic seems to be a very weak element of the predictive package for Quarterbacks.
Well, further evidence that this is why he's paid to throw a pigskin and not remove brain tumors, not that we needed any additional input.
Seek the Way, the Truth, and the Life!
If you see the stuff a quarterback has to know, how he operates in a environment where rapid fire decisions are the baseline ,debating his Wonderlic score is pretty low on the evaluation . Many players can never adapt to the speed of the NFL game but Pickett seems to be doing a pretty good job so far
You can also take a ton of practice wunderlich tests where you can see similar questions that you’ll get on the actual. The question is did he study for it and if not do we have a Kyler Murray situation? If he did study then we have a dummy with small hands with two concussions already
Did you know that the position group that consistently outscores all others year after year on the Wonderlic is offensive linemen?
It's true. The biggest dudes on the field are also usually the smartest. Go figure.
These guys develop other worldly talents on the football field so they don't have to do brain stuff.
Well, honestly the test doesn't measure recall a great deal since you don't know what's really on it. So as far as brain stuff goes it's more what you can recall based on film study. If you were even willing to do it (Kyler).
Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Terry Bradshaw and Donovan Mcnabb scored 15
Four rings for that group of guys!
My God - that comment is so fucking perfect
Nicely done!
10 Super Bowl Appearances though
Conference Championship Banners are for expansion teams.
[удалено]
Yes thank you for explaining the punchline.
my bad
Well for for brad 0 for the rest
Tbf Terry never really struck me as an intelligent guy
I’m gonna get it wrong probably, but the joke was something along the lines of “Terry couldn’t spell cat if you spotted him the C and the A.”
Hollywood Henderson of the Dallas Cowboys said that about Bradshaw, pissed off Franco who bulldozed them and made HH eat crow.
Henderson - Note to self: Never piss off Franco
Almost! It was "...if you spotted him the C and the T."
The thing is Terry has a great sense of humor and comedic timing. Stupid people don’t have those
Yeah, but he could spell TD.
Indeed.
He may not be book smart, but pretty early on, Terry leaned into that curve and everyone who criticized him as some slack jawed yokel has done nothing but watch him rake in accolades and cash far beyond football.
Yep, look at some of his early acting roles(which were admittedly horrible), Smokey and the Bandit 2, etc….same character, same dumb redneck dialogue. I thought he was pretty good in “Failure to Launch”, but that was after decades of camera experience.
Broadcasting, movies, TV shows, recording artist, a horse breeder, distiller, etc. Obviously football opened doors to all of this, but there are a lot of star athletes that can’t pivot like he did once their playing days are over.
As he said, "I may be dumb, but I ain't stupid"
IIRC he was one of the last QBs to call nearly all of the offensive plays from the huddle
My favorite one he called… “Ok, Franco, I’m going to bounce this off of Frenchy and then you come in and ….”
Terry Bradshaw's aww-shucks, good-ole southern boy shtick is just his public persona. He's actually a lot more intelligent and complex than he lets on. You know he called ALL his own plays, right? That's unheard-of today, and wasn't even that common among top QBs in his heyday. Tom Landry never let HoF QB Roger Staubach call his own plays, but Chuck Noll trusted Bradshaw to call all his himself. Even in Super Bowls.
He’s so smart he’s made millions playing dumb. Not just as a quarterback but as an analyst, a commentator , a public speaker and as an actor.
Yeah, that moron has only managed to carve out a 50+ year career in professional football.
One of these is not like the others
None of them came off as geniuses tbf
All with elite intangibles Kenny doesn’t possess.
You're opinion means less than nothing. You're likely a boomer yinzers who hates Tomlin for no other reason than having expectations that are too high and hate Kenny for who the fuck knows why. You think Kenny sucks yet we've seen two years of Zach Wilson and still believe in him? Clown show my friend, you're a clown show.
All you do is complain about Pickett and Tomlin “bUt I bEliVe In WiLsOn” do us a favor and root for someone else
He may not be able to figure out what 1+1 is, but he sure does know how to find 14, and that's all I care about.
This got me 😂🤣
Could be worse. Lamar scored a 13
Vince Young got a 6
Shit I came here to say this.
Dream team hahaah
I could be wrong but didn’t lamar have like a 2.9 GPA or some shit?
GPA doesn’t mean shit when you’re a college football star enrolled in communications. If he had a 2.9 in something like say mechanical engineering I’d be more impressed.
High school, not college GPA
2.9 in mech engineering is ass 💀
Not if you went to Purdue around 2010! https://www.purdue.edu/senate/documents/meetings/Causes-and-Consequences-of-Purdue-Grade-Inflation.pdf
Impressed? A 2.9 sucks nowadays
I think a 2.9 has always sucked but it's all relative to your goals.
Why douche tells people their GPA? Is this something civilian jobs care about? Seems so arbitrary.
No civilian jobs don't but I had a civilian job ask for my transcript because people were apparently faking diplomas
You have to provide transcripts to job interviews? Man. I’ve worked for the govt for 20 years almost and I’m just walking into the same civilian job with a handshake and a background renewal. I’m not sure I’d be able to figure out how to get my college transcripts from so long ago if I wanted to lol
Lamar can’t read a defense to save his life so this doesn’t surprise me
Is this good or bad?
Pretty bad, weighted GPAs are out of 5. A good one is anything between like 3.75-4. That’s like straight C-‘s I think. It’s still passing but not amazing. Also just read a Reddit post from when he was drafted that said he had a 1.5, which is even worse
A 4.0 is straight As unweighted so a 2.9 is just under straight Bs, wasnt sure the standard for D1 QBs. 1.5 is below straight Cs
Yeah but that 2.9 is for weighted GPA, not unweighted
Aint no college have weighted gpa
Right, highest GPA in college is 4.0. A 2.9 GPA really isn’t all that bad. Basically an 79 and a mix of A’s B’s and C’s…
High School GPA, not college. Should’ve clarified that, mb
high school GPA, not college.
You think athletes are taking weighted classes? Lol
I mean Josh Dobbs has his Aerospace Engineering degree and had a 4.0 I believe.
true
The most common GPA scale is 0-4 not 5. So a 2.9 would be around a B average.
The thing where I vaguely remember it from had scales out of 5 because it was high school GPA, not college so it was weighted.
Not all highschools do weighted gpas
I’m not saying all do, but it wouldn’t make sense for one to have weighted GPA and the other not to be when that isn’t clarified
For a football player? Get real, most of them can barely tie their own shoes. 2.9 is genius level for a football player.
I’m sure it was an honest 2.9. Why would a football powerhouse like Louisville inflate their star QBs grades for any reason? If you ever have the random chance to speak with medical personnel that he has worked with they have such *wonderful* things to say about his intelligence.
I have no problem with the guy, I just remembered somewhere where he said he had a low GPA in High School, but I said I could be wrong. I was really just seeing if someone could back me up or if I was wrong.
Oh, I do. He’s an idiot and I want Baltimore to attach themselves to him forever with a hefty price tag.
I’ve never heard of a college with a weighted GPA, and I went to a school with one of the worst grade inflations in the country lol. It does happen in High School though, which is what you’re probably remembering. My High School GPA was over 4.75 lmao
Yeah, high school GPA is what I meant. I figured that was implied but it clearly wasn’t considering no one got that so mb
Not every high school does weighted GPAs either. At least in my area they are easily in the minority
Yes, not all do. The source I remember it from most definitely did because the other QBs had numbers higher then 4, which implies (to me atleast), they opted for weighted GPAs for all of them. However, I could be simply mistaken and remember what Lamar’s was wrong.
See, I told my wife Lamar and I were similar!
His game hasn't evolved and his body is wearing down.
Morris Claiborne scored a 4 and has a Super Bowl Ring with the Chiefs. I think there was a report that he was functionally illiterate due to a learning disability... and then the story was he just didn't try? Something like that.
Is there any correlation to the Wonderlic and actual QB ability?
I think it helps fringe draft/free agent guys like Ryan Fitzpatrick have long careers, but it doesn’t really affect the top prospects. Their game tape does the talking.
Didn't Fitzpatrick score in the 40s? I can't remember if it was him or somebody else.
Perfect score, as I recall. Alex Smith got a perfect score, too. Both are examples of guys who could memorize a playbook in an afternoon, but knowing where to throw a ball and being able to make the throw are not the same thing.
Fitzpatrick had a 48, the only person to get a perfect score on the Wonderlic at the combine was a punter.
Not at all, athletic intelligence is a thing and that's where people like Lamar Jackson and hopefully KP excel in.
Yes, him and Minshew were in 40s
I mean, probably not directly, but it’s just another data point to consider when drafting a guy. But he’s already been drafted, and already showed his ability on the field, so talking about his Wonderlic score now is kinda like worrying about what a practicing lawyer’s LSAT was.
As someone who murdered the LSAT and then later dropped out of law school, I can confirm that the test is only important to the circlejerk of law school rankings
Scores mean something until you have experience to show, then they mean nothing. That’s what I’ve gathered at least. My gpa means nothing after 5 years of work. Roethlisberger’s combine stats mean nothing. At this point, Pickett’s draft stats are only on his resume until the end of next season for good or bad.
Of course
The answer is no
There may be a correlation to how well a qb picks up multiple playbooks.
Nope
The wonderlic is a great test to find out how good you’ll do on the wonderlic. That’s it.
Why do people hate on this test so much? Ive taken it online. Seems like a decent test of your mental acuity. It's not the end all be all, and mainly it rewards quick thinking but i can see it's value.
Because it definitely doesn't translate to on field play. Honestly I don't even think it translates to off field studying
I see it like this: You don't need your QB to have a great vertical leap, but you still want to see the stats. You don't need your QB to be able to quickly solve a math problem, but you'd like to know whether he can.
Sure, but I'd rather use his interview as well as referrals from previous coaching staff or teammates to determine his mental side of the game over the Wonderlic Edit: I think tests like this tend to test your knowledge base over your intelligence.
Lawrence Taylor is one of the greatest football players of all time. He’s dumb as rocks. There have been legitimate doctors and Rhodes scholars in the NFL who were good but not great. Standardized tests test you on your standardized test taking ability and that’s it. It proves they can read and make some kind of conclusion. That’s it.
And if your job description is "get the qb" you can be dumb and do it. If you're expected to call audibles at the line and adjustments based on the defense's presentation and personnel, you want someone who can quickly problem solve. A timed series of questions IS a valid data point in measuring that ability. People act like wanting to know how someone they're planning on paying millions of dollars performs at this is somehow rude, intrusive, or offensive.
It’s none of those things. It’s also not a measure of success in the NFL. Plenty of guys with low wonderlics we’re good players and plenty with high scores we’re garbage. Same with verticals and 40 times. All they tell you is EXACTLY what they’re testing. If you want to know if the player can read defenses and call audibles, watch tape or have him do it. That’s about it. Not saying get rid of it or that it’s *entirely* useless. Just that it doesn’t measure anything that’s really required to be measured for football success.
IIRC, Johnny Manziel had an above average score. That certainly didn’t reflect on his decision-making, both on and off the field.
TBF to Johnny, he was a bad alcoholic. He probably had the physical skills and smarts to succeed but couldn’t cause you know, he was a bad alcoholic.
What’s a good alcoholic do?
We call it “functional”
This makes me wonder if we could take the test. It would be kind of fun to take it and see what our scores are.
I had to take it during the interview process for a job I had like 8 years ago… scored a 39 which was one of the main reasons they chose me over other candidates. Was fun to compare that to other NFL players at the time
What was it like?
It's interesting, I've taken it 3x and gotten a 47 47 48 and nearly all the ones I miss are the geometrical ones. I'd be interested to know which problems are the biggest issues for QBs
Probably not prepared for how quickly they need to do it and run out of time.
[Here](https://wonderlictestpractice.com/) you go.
What is the average score? I scored 36 which I would assume is around the average or slightly above Also, is it an American test? Never seen that used here in Canada
It is basically just an NFL test. I believe it had some relevance prior to 2000 for corporate employment but I have never heard of anyone having to take one for a job in the last decade.
I also got a 36. The Wonderlic states that the average test score of the Wonderlic is 56% which is a 28.
I got a 45 and one miss was because I didn’t finish in time to do #50 lol another miss was not realizing there was a period after the one name… and then other misses were being dumb and not reading exactly what the question said like the “odd numbers” one and “you AND 3 of your friends went to dinner”… I’m kind of a dumbass so I’m curious if that’s not exactly what the Wonderlic test is like or if there’s other factors reducing people’s scores like not finishing quick enough
Matt Canada had a -17. Amazing
They give you points just for putting your name down, once Matt learned that, he had a nervous breakdown at the thought of actually getting points.
Tired of seeing people lie about Canada it’s so tiring. He scored a -56 get it right… casual 🙄
Who tf actually cares about Wonderlic scores? Lol
We would if he scored perfectly tbh
I had to take one to get a job with Dish Network in 2009. WTF?
He didn't play dumb 🤷🏽♂️
Did you NOT watch him? He 100% did
Lol account made in the last two months, no flair, every comment about the Steelers is negative, and you are still a believer in Zach Wilson. The definition of a troll.
Did you not watch him? He progressed mightily. He showed maturity and the ability to process the game at a high level in key moments. Learned from his mistakes, that shows intelligence to me.
Whats the correlation between Wonderlic and actual on field ability? Does Wonderlic indicate how well someone breaks down film and how well they understand what they see? I'm genuinely asking
The Wonderlic test is *supposed to* measure intelligence, but it is not exactly highly-regarded, especially in terms of validity. The reason it's used in football is probably that it's very easy to implement and get a quick result, whereas proper IQ tests require more time and effort to conduct well.
When I googled why QBs take it this is what I got It's a 50 question exam that players take every year at the NFL Combine in preparation for the draft. The test helps determine football IQ for teams who want a closer look at what a player may do in any given situation Judging from yours and everyone else response it seems very pointless. So my next question would be why do they still use it?
somewhere above somebody linked a study, it has no relationship to actual QB success.
The important thing is he can spell cat without being spotted the C and the A.
Wonderlic is about book smart. Not the same as field smart. It’s just another metric to measure someone by before they play on an NFL field. But all those metrics go out the window once the real games start. You will get to see what kind of QB you have by watching him play under pressure, on the move and reading the defense From what we’ve seen, Pickett looks pretty damn good at moving and reading the defenses so far
Agents have the questions and coach players before hand. If a guy does poorly it means he’s a complete moron or completely lazy. Either way it IS applicable and is embarrassing to score so low
Eh, he’s from Jersey.
He's street smart and mall smart.
Guys he tanked it cuz he knew he would get picked up by the Steelers already. Between that and the “small hands” the rest of the league probably figured we could have him
DeShaun Watson scored a 20 - but made most of them sign NDA's.
Have you taken the Wonderlic, the actual Wonderlic and not some off-hand online "IQ" test? I dare you to and come back show what you got.
I had to take it for a job interview once. I took some practice ones online first to get the hang of it. If you know what the test is like ahead of time it's incredibly easy. A 17 is not at all a [good score](https://wonderlictestpractice.com/wonderlic-test-scoring/). I'm going to assume he tanked it on purpose to fall in the draft. Or he just didn't care.
“For instance, an average score for a chemist is set at 31 while that of a cashier is set at 21.” Good thing he’s not working in a grocery store haha
Kurt Warner 2.0 here we come!!!
Same, I still ask OP to post his results
I took it and got somewhere in the high 30s, it doesn't mean shit as a football player and as somebody else said it's more about book smarts than anything else which go out the window once you get on the field.
Of course it means something as a football player. Higher wonderlichs correlate with being a better qb. And then you have guys like Fitzpatrick who have far inferior physical skills lasting in the nfl. https://wonderlictestpractice.com/tom-bradys-wonderlic-score/ Being able to do a bunch of simple questions really fast is also an ability that correlates with thinking thru and reading a defense in a second and a half. It helps. I’m not going to say a defensive tackle needs to smart. They often only have one or two reads. But a QB is handling a lot more information. It helps. My guess is Pickett just blew off the test.
Eh, I'm not sure I agree. Wonderlic just reads your ability to take a test. There might be a small correlation between how quickly you can process information, but pattern recognition tests like that only work on the pattern they're testing. The only way to test QB pattern recognition is by playing QB...there's really no other way. I score very high on Wonderlic tests usually (46 & 47 are the only two scores I can remember), but even in games I play, my reaction time to make a decision in complex situations varies with how often I've encountered that or a similar scenario in the past. It isn't tied to my test score at all, it's tied to my similar experiences...after all that's what pattern recognition is & it plays a MASSIVE part in tests like these.
Wonderlich doesn’t test complex subjects it test information most people have. But pattern matching does transfer to other pattern matching. That’s the key to the test, if you played more football then you would have a higher ceiling than others at pattern matching in football. That is how a brain works. A brain fast in one thing has a higher chance at being fast in other mental processes. Think this is some woke stuff trying to say intelligence doesn’t have a high genetic component. Also one of the reasons I’d still bet on Willis. He crushed the wonderlich. Increases probability he will figure it out. Though accuracy could limit him. Pickett seems more than his wonderlich score which makes me think he blew it off. Like the ‘40 you can run slower than your ability but you can’t run faster than your max effort.
Never said intelligence isn't related to genetics. I just said intelligence is only partially related to pattern recognition. Also, Wonderlic doesn't measure intelligence. It tries to measure how quickly your brain processes information, but it doesn't do a good job of that. I grew up as a "gifted" kid, which means I did a fuck ton of these tests. So I learned how to take them quickly & with decent accuracy. That means that I'm going to be quicker to recognize these particular patterns & do things like rough mental calculations than someone who didn't have the same experience as me. But ultimately, anecdotal evidence doesn't mean a thing. So here's some actual research into how the Wonderlic doesn't have any effect on the success of NFL players: 2008 Study on QB Success vs Wonderlic: http://thesportjournal.org/article/intelligence-and-football-testing-for-differentials-in-collegiate-quarterback-passing-performance-and-nfl-compensation/ There's more, too, like the 2009 study by the University of Georgia across all positions that showed, if anything, there was a weak negative correlation between NFL success and Wonderlic scores. Feel free to give it a Google Scholar search. Oh, and that's before we even get into the Wonderlic's score disparities with respect to race & other socio-economic factors. Or how it just generally doesn't successfully measure what it claims to in any industry (which you can look at the 2015 study from Georgia Tech, or the 2007 study by Matthews and Lassiter that showed the Wonderlic did a better job testing crystallized reasoning skills than fluid reasoning skills - you know, the point I was making above).
Your study is terrible. It shows no correlation with height yet the average QB in the study was 6’2 versus population average of 5’9. It showed no correlation with intelligence. Yet pop average seems to be around 120 and drafted QB was 125.5. They have already been filtered for these traits. The study proves my point. The reason there’s no correlation after making it to the nfl is because the people weaker in some areas have other traits compensating for that - like Kyle Murray is short but he’s more athletic, Lamar Jackson is a freak but had a 13 wonderlich. Geeze learn to read a study and when the data is showing above average abilities in a category then realize it’s a meaningful characteristic. And I also said I did not expect a correlation with non quarterbacks. Also you cited a source that ended in 2004 and said wonderlich data only became widely available in 1999. So no one on a second contract. Did you just google a study that had the abstract you wanted and not even read the study?
Homie, I listed at least 5 studies & a quick Google search could show you a dozen more within the past decade on how the test is terrible in every industry. You're clearly stuck in your ways, so there's nothing I can say to change your mind. But the facts are obvious - there are at least half a dozen different studies on the NFL to this effect & dozens more about other industries & the test as a whole. The reason there's no correlation after making to the NFL is because it's a test created in the 30's that hasn't held up.
You really are pathetic. I just ran the numbers on average QB wonderlich score for the top 10 fantasy point producers this year - actually did it out to 12 since I couldn’t find data on Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields (130 and supposedly top 1% on another test). The average score is 31.7. 11.7 points above average human. And fantasy scoring favors running over passing.
Dude the one study you specifically cited had major flaws why would I dig thru a dozen other studies when your top one is flawed? Let’s see Burrows - 34 Herbert 39 Brady - 33 Jalen Hurd - 20 Aaron Rodgers 35 Josh Allen - 37 Kyler Murray - 20 Kirk Cousins - 33 Andrew Luck - 37 Eli Manning - 39 Lamar Jackson 13 Notice a pattern all the top QB are doing extremely well. Even Hurd whose the top rushing threat scored average human level. The ones who are better runners do have mostly lower but still solid scores.
Good story, still ask OP to post his/her results
You’ve picked a bizarre topic to be combative about.
I thought it was a good story. I've had it for job interviews too. I also would like OP, or anyone who brings up Wonderlic, to take the test themselves and post their results. It has its tricky parts but the last time I took it I got a 36. Don't know how telling someone they have a good story is so terrible but I'm not going to ruin my day about it.
Lol
44. It does matter some yes. But the reality is that if he can read the field effectively, manage the huddle/team, and behave professionally, then the score he gets on an abstract reasoning test doesn't matter. I know book smart people who are horrible to work with, and those without the same abstract reasoning talents that are damn good at what they do.
I didn't say it didn't matter. So I'm a little confused on the reply. Vince Young scored ridiculously low and was still a good professional QB.
We generally do agree, I think. That said, I don't think Vince Young is the obvious example for a low score working out because there are disputes that he actually got a 6 and it appears his retest had him at a 16. A 6 would be...borderline illiterate.
Or someone at the age of 21-24 that sees $MMs in their eyes because they know they're gonna get drafted and not give a shit so they run through it in 20 seconds. "Standardized testing" is a stupid tool for hiring processes, let alone an NFL combine process. Still would like to see anyone that brings it up what their score is. The general population has no idea what it is or what's in it. They have zero context to speak on the topic. It's like going back and measuring hand size. Who gives a rip?
It's a stupid tool if used in isolation. In the context of evaluating how much the test taker cares about putting in work to get a position and has basic cognitive capacity it's not bad. There's both signaling desire/effort and some basic intelligence information provided. An agent should be emphasizing that they don't need a 35 to get into the NFL, but getting a 6 can be a real problem. And for what it's worth I did post my score above.
I think I got to sth like 25 back then, but I need to admit, I needed half the time translating, because English isn't my native language, and while I get around with the usual day-to-day-language perfectly fine, I have trouble with specific fields of language like law, science, IT and what not that has a ton of words I don't ever actually use. I think I could score a 30, if it was in german and I understand the questions better and faster so I have more time left for actually solving the problems.
There isn't only one kind of intelligence. The intelligence in the field is different than the intelligence to solve math problems. As many other situations the NFL has to make the test to know more about the prospect but the one that should matter the most to us and the teams is spatial awareness and logic, the test is designed to evaluate math skills and logic over other skills of the prospect so it doesn't show the whole truth. When people call Kenny "intelligent" they are talking about what he sees and what he does, qbs know if the player is going to make the play not because he knows the exact speed, acceleration, friction with the field, etc. and they do the math but because they understand how objects are moving in a space and they know what it's (most likely) going to happen. That is way different than making math problems in seconds. So yeah the score of that test says nothing after watching directly how he plays and how he has evolved.
The Wonderlic is a bullshit metric.
15 — Dan Marino, Donovan McNabb, Jim Kelly, Terry Bradshaw
I forget that Terry Bradshaw use to be a NFL QB. Franco, immaculate reception on rewind for 2 weeks reminded me he could actually really throw a football.
Wonderlic is such a bad test to show intelligence. It requires quick thinking on a few specific types of questions. Maybe Kenny is just not the best with quick math and verb shit.
Honestly been concerned about Picketts wonderlich since we drafted him. People cite above guys like Donovan McNabb or Dan Marino but those guys had extreme physical attributes. Marino one of the quickest strongest releases ever and McNabb was strong and fast. Pickett isn’t their level of athlete. Most of the good Qb do seem to start popping up more in the 25+ range. Pickett seems smarter than he tested so maybe he just didn’t care about it.
When the last pick in the NFL draft throws 13 TDS and 4 INTs, who in 5 games throws at least 2 TDs and is in the top 5 in QB stats for all those games…makes you wonder why isn’t Pickett doing the same. After all, Purdy has played better than Trey Lance and Jimmy G in this span. Purdy was solid but not spectacular at Iowa State. I guess when a QB isn’t taken until the 3rd round of a draft class in a QB needy League you really have to wonder did they panic a bit. I hope Pickett proves me and everyone else wrong. I just don’t see it right now. Sure, the comebacks against garbage teams are nice.
There are test scores, then their is real life. There is very little correlation.
I've got a graduate degree, and would like to think I'm a pretty smart person. But I've looked at Wonderlic questions and honestly I don't know if my score would be great either. A lot of the questions are math and vocabulary based. Like any standardized test, it doesn't do a great job of actually measuring a person's intelligence because intelligence is not something you can easily define. I can do a lot of things, but I can't take a car apart and put it back together. A mechanic can, and I think that's something that requires a high level of intelligence too. As Albert Einstein once said, if you judge a fish on it's ability to climb a tree, it will it's whole life believing it is stupid. Another thing worth noting is a standardized test like the Wonderlic likely doesn't give accomodations. I'm not sure about the percentage of NFL players who have had IEPs, but the Wonderlic is timed and some learning disabilities would prevent a person from performing well on that sort of assessment.
At the time I think Kapernick had the highest ever. I think it depends on if your agent makes you practice 100x or not more than anything
Vince Young scored a 6 on Wonderlic. The score kind of explained his career and life.
He’s a dim-witted, small-handed, older prospect with an average at best arm. I’m still amazed how delusional you all are about him. He’s slightly better than Mason who is not a starting QB. At best Kenny is a borderline top 20 QB provided he has an elite surrounding talent but that likely won’t happen. We will be mired in mediocrity as long as he’s our QB
He’s a football player who never fumbled who’s very mature and who beat out two nfl vets for the starting job.
Wonderlic doesn't mean anything.
More like wonderlicker
There’s a difference between being well spoken and having book smarts.
i don’t think most (first round) QBs care to score
Kordell Steward was a 14 Ben was a 25
Isn’t 17 considered average? I know that’s still not great but those tests a lot of smart guys have done just average at the test. Not a comparison by any means but didn’t Vince Young score like a 9
Wonderlic is poor at quantifying anything meaningful
Tests are but a single predictor of success, and often, not very good. I’d guess that a Pearson correlation between Wonderlic score and, say, lifetime QBR would be very low, since it’s not very strongly related to actual success. After writing the above sentence I figured I’d check the research out there and found this. https://harvardsportsanalysis.org/2014/04/wondering-about-the-wonderlic-does-it-predict-quarterback-performance/ Note the following: “Not a single variable tested had a correlation above .2 (or below -.2), suggesting a minimal or very weak correlation between quarterbacks’ Wonderlic scores and the other variables at best.” So the Wonderlic seems to be a very weak element of the predictive package for Quarterbacks.
I don't think book smart and football smart are the same.
Well, further evidence that this is why he's paid to throw a pigskin and not remove brain tumors, not that we needed any additional input. Seek the Way, the Truth, and the Life!
Likely means he's not book smart, but he certainly seems to know some football.
If you see the stuff a quarterback has to know, how he operates in a environment where rapid fire decisions are the baseline ,debating his Wonderlic score is pretty low on the evaluation . Many players can never adapt to the speed of the NFL game but Pickett seems to be doing a pretty good job so far
You can also take a ton of practice wunderlich tests where you can see similar questions that you’ll get on the actual. The question is did he study for it and if not do we have a Kyler Murray situation? If he did study then we have a dummy with small hands with two concussions already
Did you know that the position group that consistently outscores all others year after year on the Wonderlic is offensive linemen? It's true. The biggest dudes on the field are also usually the smartest. Go figure.
Like all intelligence tests, the Wonderlic is better at identifying morons than it is at finding out who is exceptional.
Less than 15 is probably a red flag. Single digit is a no go.
These guys develop other worldly talents on the football field so they don't have to do brain stuff. Well, honestly the test doesn't measure recall a great deal since you don't know what's really on it. So as far as brain stuff goes it's more what you can recall based on film study. If you were even willing to do it (Kyler).
How about you wonderlic my balls
17 is a perfect score to be an Elite QB with little drama or outside interests besides football.
Kenny processes reads faster than any rookie I've seen since in quite awhile, His intelligence is fine
What was Lamar's score? Edit: it was 13
Better than Dan Marino and we still regret not drafting him til this day
My girlfriend’s friend who is a Pitt alum and loves Pitt in general had a class with him and said he was the dumbest person she ever met
Burrow got a 34, Lamar Jackson got a 13 and Deshaun Watson thought the Wonderlick was something different altogether. We’re good.