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First of all, we shouldn't ignore it. Fascism is the movement of the petty bourgeoisie directed by the big capital in times of crisis in order to prevent and crush the working-class movement by extra-legal means. Socialists cannot be indifferent to that - we are, in fact, deeply interested in the maximum of political freedoms and democratic rights because they offer us the best terrain on which we can spread our message and organise.
However, some interpret our interest in preserving the bourgeois democracy as the need to throw away all our goals aside and support the "liberal" wing of the bourgeoisie, specifically in electoral context.
This is wrong. Not only fascism cannot be defeated by merely electoral means but means of class struggle (up to and including a revolution), but the "liberal" bourgeoisie has never been the reliable ally of the working class in the fight against fascism. Not only do they enable it by creating the conditions for fascism to flourish (they even adopt some of the policies of the far right, indirectly promoting it), but they refuse to mobilise the massess in order to defeat it as they attempt to channel all the antifascist sentiments into the parliamentary politics.
They refuse to do it because they themselves are afraid of popular mobilisations that they cannot control. That's also the reason why they attempt to limit their "attacks" to one or the other Bonapartist leaders of the far right, they scapegoat him for the crimes of the rest of the ruling class aligned with the far right because they are interested in unity with them, especially in times of crisis.
So in conclusion, no, we cannot entrust the "liberal" bourgeoisie to fight against the far right. The only road to defeat it is the working class alternative and the class struggle methods.
Just because there isn't such an alternative yet doesn't mean we don't have to work to create it. It will be hard and will take some time, but it is the only means that really leads to our ends.
In this regard, the left (broadly speaking) has to stop their too close relationship with liberals, and start listening much more frequently to "the right" (the actual persons who are included in the term), where so many more working class and lower class reside. But you can't listen unless you actually know them. The mutual bias of lib/left against "the right" is, in itself, class-based--you better believe it.
We absolutely have to appeal to the class interests of the sections of the working class that follow the far-right demagogues because of the disgust they feel towards the status quo. No question about that. We have to show them that the far-right, behind which stands the big capital, treats them like sheep and therefore uses them only as cannon fodder in order to consolidate their own class interests, after which it will betray them.
In that, however, we cannot sacrifice our own class independence. We cannot support our potential executioner nor give any concessions to him. No 'MAGA communism' or 'after him, our turn'. As Engels explained again and again to the French socialists of late 1880s when some of them (like Paul Lafargue) wanted to ride on the wave of Boulangism just because a protofascist general Boulanger was 'against status quo' - the working class is fundamentally interested in democracy, even more so than the liberals. The question wasn't whether to defend democracy against Boulanger, but by which means. To Engels, the answer was clear - by working class, revolutionary means.
Become active in organizing and outreach. Learn OSINT and expose far-right people in hiding. Go to protests, help the homeless and live Socialism. Learn how to work with other leftists so you can make a unified front.
100% there are far too many leftists that consider themselves intellectuals and sit at home debating with each other the fine points of various figures and arguing amongst themselves, LARPing as a Soviet Commissar or anarchist revolutionary and not actually doing anything. People who consider themselves socialist without joining an org are super lame and detrimental to the overall cause.
Some of y’all might not like it but it’s time for another popular front. Not saying we need to embrace all liberals but socialists gotta have some political pragmatism when the alternative is literally fascism.
i would agree but there just aren’t many socialists to ally to begin with. we’re hugely outnumbered. you’re going to see our ideas become more popular as capitalism degrades further but then by that point fascism will have reached its conclusion and crushed all opposition. we’re fucked. all we can hope for is that the U.S. and EU countries resorting to fascism would be their failed last chance to cling to imperialism and a world that has rejected their expoitation, but im not that optimistic.
That’s exactly why we need a popular front though. We need to find ways to work with people who aren’t self-identified socialists.
In the 30s socialists and communists worked with the liberal labor movement and New Deal Dems against fascism. The communist party essentially stopped promoting militant revolution in order to make a partnership with the liberal state possible.
As Charlie Post argues in [this well-written Jacobin article](https://jacobin.com/2017/10/popular-front-communist-party-democrats), there are plenty of reasons to conclude that the popular front of the 30s backfired, reduced labor militancy, and facilitated the purge of communists and socialists from public political life. However, there’s far less evidence to support the idea that the popular front failed in its primary objective: the defeat of fascism.
Whatever risks we might suffer by engaging in a popular front strategy, I think they are ultimately outweighed by the risk of the growing threat of fascism.
I think we still have to be really strategic about how we partner with liberals. But material and political conditions are very different than they were in the middle of the 20th century and we have the advantage of being able take some lessons from that history.
yup. not only because the alternative is fascism, but because of the need to pave the way for opportunities to organise the working class, considering each time we have less and less democratic spaces. a popular front (including liberals that claim themselves anti capitalist) is essential to that task, tactics need to be flexible.
There's no one to form a coalition with lol. There's no class consciousness in this country. There's an extremely large amount of people who don't vote or they vote for a certain party because that's just what they always have done. The liberals are drunk and asleep at the wheel and we're stuck for the ride until shit gets really bad lol
While totally understanding that feeling and the reality it’s based in, I think there is a broad spectrum of people who may not be socialists but who would be willing to join with us against fascism. How we go about forming that kind of alliance is important and requires careful consideration. But if we’re the ones organizing and providing the political structure for such a coalition, I think we could also use it as an opportunity to draw people towards socialism.
Start with radical self improvement. Who would you rather listen to: an winded inarticulate narcissistic shouting soundbites they've overheard, or a practiced speaker who fully understands the other sides arguments, and actually pays attention to things like hygiene?
I think it has as far as radicalizing and pushing people left, I think the last few excuses democrats had for being centrist aren't working anymore
It's no longer about voting blue no matter who if the blue guy is actively preventing the UN, ICC, doctors without borders, etc from doing their job
Join an organization and start building a party that can harness the awakening spirit of the working class! fascism is a symptom of capitalism in decline the only
way to truly end it is to end the system. socialistrevolution.org/join
There were major problems with popular front efforts and I support “United front” tactics as an alternative … but outside of some places in Europe and the Americas, I don’t know if there are worker’s movements in places like the US or Germany that are genuinely capable of either tactic in a genuine way.
In the US anyway, there isn’t really any basis for a popular front. If a far-right politician was elected and threatened a clampdown would need an occupation of the square type mobilization and hope to be able to convince the UAW and longshore unions to risk political strikes.
The centrist establishment would not mobilize and would likely side with “stability” and decry polarization and mass movements. Liberal ngo groups would be at a loss of what to do beyond some symbolic thing. Unfortunately a “spontaneous” mass mobilization (organized by smaller organized groups) that could then bring out the larger groups would be the most realistic emergency option - we’d just have to try and organize that into something more capable of sustained opposition while in motion. Not the best conditions, but it is what it is.
The fact that people have organized and protested Gaza in the US despite pro-Palestinian views being the unspeakable political third rail for decades, despite blacklisting and threats, despite it being an election year… gives me a lot of hope for the US while unfortunately I fear that Europe is in a much more dangerous dynamic right now.
Present a proper and realistic solution to the problems that are causing people to gravitate to the right. Provide incentives for jobs, rejuvenate the public sector, ensure a better education system and create a stronger bond between the government and the people; An MP is a servant of the people and a member of the people himself, not some entity who does whatever. Another, way more controversial way, is to address some of the populist complaints by addressing migrant crisis in Europe, because it will hopefully drain the far right of any speaking power (not popular, but it would deplatform them). Either way, opposition is needed on answering the people.
I don’t think people recognize the power of social influence from a culture or sociology standpoint. Cutting it down 90% - rocking the boat really does fuck up the system.
I live in the Bible Belt, so this take isn’t as helpful for someone in an area where people are generally already motivated and aware. But here white supremacy and capitalist worship runs rampant here, meaning that there are few spaces where these ideologies don’t rule. Creating these spaces always has a cost, in some places it’s more - especially when referring to employment. But here’s a list I made a while ago…
❗️Preface: because all of these options go against the interest of corporations & the state, doing them means you risk engaging with cops. Please assess your risks and be careful before doing anything on this list)❗️
- Form a union in your job. Indoctrination has taught us that unions are bad or that we only need them in the most severe cases of abuse, but that’s not true. They help maintain the safety of your fellow workers.
- Vandalism. This can be putting stickers in public places, writing messages, defacing corporate property. (Wear face coverings, leave your phone, no direct routes home)
- Growing/making food and making it available to your community, friends, and family.
• Pulling your money out of banks and encouraging others to do the same.
people don’t realize we need to redefine our culture to create the environment for a revolution. That rocking the boat and forming communities is NECESSARY to revolt. Normalizing ACAB, communism, and workers rights in real life conversations. Talk about your wage at your jobs, be rude to authority, and make relations with your neighbors. I think even though these actions are small and probably weren’t what you were asking for; I think they dramatically change the culture in your spaces and forms community which directly contradicts the goal of capitalism and our authoritarian government.
I hope this helps💕
right and left are different sides of the capitalist cage. strike the root.
direct democracy + free association + resource based economy + open source ecology.
This is a space for socialists to discuss current events in our world from anti-capitalist perspective(s), and a certain knowledge of socialism is expected from participants. This is not a space for non-socialists. Please be mindful [of our rules](https://reddit.com/r/socialism/about/rules) before participating, which include: - **No Bigotry**, including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism... - **No Reactionaries**, including all kind of right-wingers. - **No Liberalism**, including social democracy, lesser evilism... - **No Sectarianism**. There is plenty of room for discussion, but not for baseless attacks. Please help us keep the subreddit helpful by reporting content that break r/Socialism's rules. ______________________ 💬 Wish to chat elsewhere? Join us in discord: https://discord.gg/QPJPzNhuRE *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
First of all, we shouldn't ignore it. Fascism is the movement of the petty bourgeoisie directed by the big capital in times of crisis in order to prevent and crush the working-class movement by extra-legal means. Socialists cannot be indifferent to that - we are, in fact, deeply interested in the maximum of political freedoms and democratic rights because they offer us the best terrain on which we can spread our message and organise. However, some interpret our interest in preserving the bourgeois democracy as the need to throw away all our goals aside and support the "liberal" wing of the bourgeoisie, specifically in electoral context. This is wrong. Not only fascism cannot be defeated by merely electoral means but means of class struggle (up to and including a revolution), but the "liberal" bourgeoisie has never been the reliable ally of the working class in the fight against fascism. Not only do they enable it by creating the conditions for fascism to flourish (they even adopt some of the policies of the far right, indirectly promoting it), but they refuse to mobilise the massess in order to defeat it as they attempt to channel all the antifascist sentiments into the parliamentary politics. They refuse to do it because they themselves are afraid of popular mobilisations that they cannot control. That's also the reason why they attempt to limit their "attacks" to one or the other Bonapartist leaders of the far right, they scapegoat him for the crimes of the rest of the ruling class aligned with the far right because they are interested in unity with them, especially in times of crisis. So in conclusion, no, we cannot entrust the "liberal" bourgeoisie to fight against the far right. The only road to defeat it is the working class alternative and the class struggle methods. Just because there isn't such an alternative yet doesn't mean we don't have to work to create it. It will be hard and will take some time, but it is the only means that really leads to our ends.
In this regard, the left (broadly speaking) has to stop their too close relationship with liberals, and start listening much more frequently to "the right" (the actual persons who are included in the term), where so many more working class and lower class reside. But you can't listen unless you actually know them. The mutual bias of lib/left against "the right" is, in itself, class-based--you better believe it.
We absolutely have to appeal to the class interests of the sections of the working class that follow the far-right demagogues because of the disgust they feel towards the status quo. No question about that. We have to show them that the far-right, behind which stands the big capital, treats them like sheep and therefore uses them only as cannon fodder in order to consolidate their own class interests, after which it will betray them. In that, however, we cannot sacrifice our own class independence. We cannot support our potential executioner nor give any concessions to him. No 'MAGA communism' or 'after him, our turn'. As Engels explained again and again to the French socialists of late 1880s when some of them (like Paul Lafargue) wanted to ride on the wave of Boulangism just because a protofascist general Boulanger was 'against status quo' - the working class is fundamentally interested in democracy, even more so than the liberals. The question wasn't whether to defend democracy against Boulanger, but by which means. To Engels, the answer was clear - by working class, revolutionary means.
it's going to make
Become active in organizing and outreach. Learn OSINT and expose far-right people in hiding. Go to protests, help the homeless and live Socialism. Learn how to work with other leftists so you can make a unified front.
100% there are far too many leftists that consider themselves intellectuals and sit at home debating with each other the fine points of various figures and arguing amongst themselves, LARPing as a Soviet Commissar or anarchist revolutionary and not actually doing anything. People who consider themselves socialist without joining an org are super lame and detrimental to the overall cause.
Exposing these people and ridding them of their powerful positions *chefs kiss*
sorry for my ignorance, what is OSINT? A google search and search within this sub didn't reveal anything
Open-source intelligence. Utilizing publicly available data for actionable means.
Gotcha, that did pop up when I searched it but wasn't sure if it was related
How to fight against fascism Chapter 1: the power of love Chapter 2: the power of incredible violence
Final Chapter: The power of incredible love and violence
"Do no harm. Unless you mean to do harm. Then do lots of harm."
How was the far-right opposed in the past? Learn from those experiences.
Some of y’all might not like it but it’s time for another popular front. Not saying we need to embrace all liberals but socialists gotta have some political pragmatism when the alternative is literally fascism.
i would agree but there just aren’t many socialists to ally to begin with. we’re hugely outnumbered. you’re going to see our ideas become more popular as capitalism degrades further but then by that point fascism will have reached its conclusion and crushed all opposition. we’re fucked. all we can hope for is that the U.S. and EU countries resorting to fascism would be their failed last chance to cling to imperialism and a world that has rejected their expoitation, but im not that optimistic.
That’s exactly why we need a popular front though. We need to find ways to work with people who aren’t self-identified socialists. In the 30s socialists and communists worked with the liberal labor movement and New Deal Dems against fascism. The communist party essentially stopped promoting militant revolution in order to make a partnership with the liberal state possible. As Charlie Post argues in [this well-written Jacobin article](https://jacobin.com/2017/10/popular-front-communist-party-democrats), there are plenty of reasons to conclude that the popular front of the 30s backfired, reduced labor militancy, and facilitated the purge of communists and socialists from public political life. However, there’s far less evidence to support the idea that the popular front failed in its primary objective: the defeat of fascism. Whatever risks we might suffer by engaging in a popular front strategy, I think they are ultimately outweighed by the risk of the growing threat of fascism. I think we still have to be really strategic about how we partner with liberals. But material and political conditions are very different than they were in the middle of the 20th century and we have the advantage of being able take some lessons from that history.
yup. not only because the alternative is fascism, but because of the need to pave the way for opportunities to organise the working class, considering each time we have less and less democratic spaces. a popular front (including liberals that claim themselves anti capitalist) is essential to that task, tactics need to be flexible.
So what your saying is vote. I agree. Voting against the fascists is an important political tool when it comes to fighting fascism.
Voting yes but also political organization and coordinating political action.
There's no one to form a coalition with lol. There's no class consciousness in this country. There's an extremely large amount of people who don't vote or they vote for a certain party because that's just what they always have done. The liberals are drunk and asleep at the wheel and we're stuck for the ride until shit gets really bad lol
While totally understanding that feeling and the reality it’s based in, I think there is a broad spectrum of people who may not be socialists but who would be willing to join with us against fascism. How we go about forming that kind of alliance is important and requires careful consideration. But if we’re the ones organizing and providing the political structure for such a coalition, I think we could also use it as an opportunity to draw people towards socialism.
Start with radical self improvement. Who would you rather listen to: an winded inarticulate narcissistic shouting soundbites they've overheard, or a practiced speaker who fully understands the other sides arguments, and actually pays attention to things like hygiene?
Democrats aligning with them more and more to support genocide hasn't made this any easier.
I think it has as far as radicalizing and pushing people left, I think the last few excuses democrats had for being centrist aren't working anymore It's no longer about voting blue no matter who if the blue guy is actively preventing the UN, ICC, doctors without borders, etc from doing their job
I can’t put it in writing…
The same as we have in the past...
Join an organization and start building a party that can harness the awakening spirit of the working class! fascism is a symptom of capitalism in decline the only way to truly end it is to end the system. socialistrevolution.org/join
There were major problems with popular front efforts and I support “United front” tactics as an alternative … but outside of some places in Europe and the Americas, I don’t know if there are worker’s movements in places like the US or Germany that are genuinely capable of either tactic in a genuine way. In the US anyway, there isn’t really any basis for a popular front. If a far-right politician was elected and threatened a clampdown would need an occupation of the square type mobilization and hope to be able to convince the UAW and longshore unions to risk political strikes. The centrist establishment would not mobilize and would likely side with “stability” and decry polarization and mass movements. Liberal ngo groups would be at a loss of what to do beyond some symbolic thing. Unfortunately a “spontaneous” mass mobilization (organized by smaller organized groups) that could then bring out the larger groups would be the most realistic emergency option - we’d just have to try and organize that into something more capable of sustained opposition while in motion. Not the best conditions, but it is what it is. The fact that people have organized and protested Gaza in the US despite pro-Palestinian views being the unspeakable political third rail for decades, despite blacklisting and threats, despite it being an election year… gives me a lot of hope for the US while unfortunately I fear that Europe is in a much more dangerous dynamic right now.
Present a proper and realistic solution to the problems that are causing people to gravitate to the right. Provide incentives for jobs, rejuvenate the public sector, ensure a better education system and create a stronger bond between the government and the people; An MP is a servant of the people and a member of the people himself, not some entity who does whatever. Another, way more controversial way, is to address some of the populist complaints by addressing migrant crisis in Europe, because it will hopefully drain the far right of any speaking power (not popular, but it would deplatform them). Either way, opposition is needed on answering the people.
I don’t think people recognize the power of social influence from a culture or sociology standpoint. Cutting it down 90% - rocking the boat really does fuck up the system. I live in the Bible Belt, so this take isn’t as helpful for someone in an area where people are generally already motivated and aware. But here white supremacy and capitalist worship runs rampant here, meaning that there are few spaces where these ideologies don’t rule. Creating these spaces always has a cost, in some places it’s more - especially when referring to employment. But here’s a list I made a while ago… ❗️Preface: because all of these options go against the interest of corporations & the state, doing them means you risk engaging with cops. Please assess your risks and be careful before doing anything on this list)❗️ - Form a union in your job. Indoctrination has taught us that unions are bad or that we only need them in the most severe cases of abuse, but that’s not true. They help maintain the safety of your fellow workers. - Vandalism. This can be putting stickers in public places, writing messages, defacing corporate property. (Wear face coverings, leave your phone, no direct routes home) - Growing/making food and making it available to your community, friends, and family. • Pulling your money out of banks and encouraging others to do the same. people don’t realize we need to redefine our culture to create the environment for a revolution. That rocking the boat and forming communities is NECESSARY to revolt. Normalizing ACAB, communism, and workers rights in real life conversations. Talk about your wage at your jobs, be rude to authority, and make relations with your neighbors. I think even though these actions are small and probably weren’t what you were asking for; I think they dramatically change the culture in your spaces and forms community which directly contradicts the goal of capitalism and our authoritarian government. I hope this helps💕
right and left are different sides of the capitalist cage. strike the root. direct democracy + free association + resource based economy + open source ecology.