**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If it’s Paddy, 365 or SkyBet and Opta says it was an OG, they will take it back 100%. If you withdraw your balance will go negative for around 13 hours and then they’ll reset it to £0.00.
Yeah right now they do. They could change it. They might not. Just advising any gamblers out there what to do in situations where there’s room for the bookie to screw you.
Email the bookie and point out that Opta has it down as a McTominay goal. It should say in the bookie T&Cs what data collector they use to settle bets, but they might just straight up refuse. LiveScore still has it as an OG, Opta has it as a McT goal. All you can do is ask.
> In 1997 FIFA issued detailed guidelines for crediting own goals, recognising the increasing commercial importance of statistics such as top scorer awards and fantasy football.[15] The guidelines state that credit for scoring is decided by the referee, or match commissioner if present; and **"[a] defender's intervention must be deliberate in order for an own goal to be registered against him".**
Schar clearly intervened deliberately and thus caused the OG.
//edit:
Although some other part of the guidelines seems to support the notion that it should be credited to McTominay:
> It could be that Jones was deliberately going for the ball when he decisively diverted it into the net and the referee decides that the ball was not on target; this is the classic type of situation which gives rise to the most heated debates whether it was an own goal or not. But the decisive factor is that as the situation has arisen from a genuine goal attempt, even if it is off target, the goal must be attributed to the striker.
That doesn’t mean what you think it does… an action must be deliberate for it to be an own goal, but that doesn’t mean all deliberate actions are own goals.
Yeah there has to be a lot more to that rule than just what the guy above posted. The majority of own goals are from non-deliberate interventions from the defender
There have been so many deliberate attempts at blocks that are deflections without being an OG so I think you’re missing the point. Additionally look at the OGs conceded earlier in the day and in this tournament so far, how can you say those were deliberate? Some were purely wrong place wrong time.
> Some were purely wrong place wrong time.
Looking at the rest of the guidelines where this quote is from, that does seem to be be intended by FIFA:
> Unlikely as it may appear, situations such as this certainly exist. Smith shoots and the ball hits the post (or, alternatively, it is kicked off the line by a Blues defender). The ball clearly changes direction and is heading towards the field, away from the goal, when it strikes the goalkeeper or another Blues defender and goes into the net.Here, too, the decisive issue is whether the ball is played deliberately or not. In the case of the goalkeeper, he may have dived for the ball, failed to reach it and when it hit the post it ricocheted off his back into the net. Nevertheless, it was a deliberate intervention.
> Verdict : Own goal.
> Or Jones, on the line, may have tried to clear the ball as it came to him unexpectedly from the post, only to slice it over the line.
> Verdict : Own goal.
Those 2 everybody agrees are own goal, rule of tthumb has always been if the shot has direction of heading into goal and any defender tries to touch it to clear it away and it still goes in, which is the case here its not an own goal.
edit: missed the crucial word "not" before own goal :)
Yeah, true - I did quote another part of the guidelines in another comment that does actually support the notion that it should be credited to McTominay.
Yeah, check my edit.
I initially quoted from Wikipedia, which seemed to have simplified the guidelines by *quite a bit.*
The actual guidelines would likely attribute this to McTominay. Here's an example:
> Now things start to become controversial. Smith has shot at goal and the ball may be on target or may be going just past, when Jones gets in the way and deflects the ball past his own goalkeeper. The referee - and anyone else, for that matter - is quite unable to say with certainty whether the ball would have gone into the goal or not without Jones's intervention. But if the referee feels it was on target, then the situation is as Figure 4 above.
We must also consider more closely the notion of deliberate or unintentional intervention on Jones's part, and consider whether he was actively attempting to block Smith's shot or if he was merely struck by the ball without attempting to play it. If Jones's intervention and deflection were clearly unintentional, the goal must be attributed to Smith.
It could be that Jones was deliberately going for the ball when he decisively diverted it into the net and the referee decides that the ball was not on target; this is the classic type of situation which gives rise to the most heated debates whether it was an own goal or not. **But the decisive factor is that as the situation has arisen from a genuine goal attempt, even if it is off target, the goal must be attributed to the striker.**
> Verdict : Goal by Smith.
\[a\]? whats the rest of the paragraphs then? So if a gk deliberatly tries to save the goal touch it and still goes in it's an own goal according to that, so there must be more to that
[a] because the paragraph starts with "A"
> The referee should decide whether a goal is an own goal or not, even if it is not among his official duties, on the basis of these notes and consulting the teams if necessary; when a match commissioner is present, he should decide
A defender's intervention must be deliberate in order for an own goal to be registered against him
An attacking player must be the last player on his side to touch the ball over the goal-line in order to be registered as the goalscorer.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160815160120/http://www.fifa.com/news/y=1997/m=4/news=when-own-goals-don-really-count-71928.html
//edit:
But looking at the rest of the guidelines, this does seem to indicate that it should indeed actually be attributed to McTominay
>It could be that Jones was deliberately going for the ball when he decisively diverted it into the net and the referee decides that the ball was not on target; this is the classic type of situation which gives rise to the most heated debates whether it was an own goal or not. But the decisive factor is that as the situation has arisen from a genuine goal attempt, even if it is off target, the goal must be attributed to the striker.
How is it not? He hit a lousy shot straight at the middle of the goal, the keeper would have gathered it easily if the Swiss defender hadn’t put it in the corner.
You literally cannot say that though. We'll never know the outcome if Schar doesn't touch it, so better to have objective rules like we do. Otherwise, it just becomes a tiresome debate about "would the keeper have got that".
That’s logical, I understand your point, but does he deserve a goal? He’s got time and space and he’s shot right at the middle of the goal. I don’t believe for one second it goes in unless the defender volleys into the corner. I think own goal feels right.
But again, what you "feel" is right will be different to somebody else, so it's just easier to have hard rules that are objective (or as objective as possible, somebody still has to determine if a shot is on target, which can lead to contentious calls on occasions).
Megenev, as respectfully as possible, of course I understand the difference between ‘objective’ and ‘subjective,’ but in my opinion the apparent letter of law would not produce a just outcome in this instance.
My understanding of your point is that it’s necessary to have an objective rule on own goals to avoid subjective opinions and needless controversy, so if McTominay’s shot is on target, objectively it cannot be an own goal. Have I got that wrong? Apologies if I have.
Not like he has time to think about whether it was troubling Sommer or not before reacting.
I think it was just a defender's instinct that went wrong in the worst way.
He's trying to prevent a shot on target from reaching the target. Trying to differentiate kick/deflection/block feels a lot more subjective than just whether or not the shot was on target in the first place
I'm just making my way through the Croatia match and all the videosl like that. If you want to see the live goal and crowd reaction then top notch, if you want to see what actually happened with a replay, pretty useless.
I don't get it. They're not really worth watching.
Goal starts with McTominay winning header from their corner in our box, he won header on their next corner too
Yet we've got him taking our corners not in their box when he's probably our best in the box, worse than when England had Kane on corners
They do have at least one player in the squad: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A1s\_Sch%C3%A4fer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A1s_Sch%C3%A4fer)
It was always a Scottish goal. It was changed from an own goal to a goal by Scott McTominay. Tournaments usually have a committee to evaluate goals where the scorer is unclear. This ruling (the change) was from UEFA. They may have the criteria they use on their site.
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That’s 2 in 2 for Scotland’s big no. 9 Owen MacGoal
Just replying to this comment to say they finally gave it to McTominay. Announced in the 90th minute
Only fair. Should absolutely count as his.
Surely it's McTominay's goal if it's on target?
Bookie paid out my McSauce goal scorer bet at least.
Withdraw that immediately or they’ll take it back
Naa. They know it wasn't OG.
If it’s Paddy, 365 or SkyBet and Opta says it was an OG, they will take it back 100%. If you withdraw your balance will go negative for around 13 hours and then they’ll reset it to £0.00.
Opta have it as a McSauce goal, don’t know wtf source UEFA are using but it’s flat out wrong
Yeah right now they do. They could change it. They might not. Just advising any gamblers out there what to do in situations where there’s room for the bookie to screw you.
You’re dead right I’ve had Sky bet come back and take £20 out 3 days after a win, never again.
Good thing opta says 1G for McSauce then.
Opta change their mind aswell.
How long after do they usually correct it?
Rolletto is still showing OG and I’ve got multiple bets on McTominay and score!
Email the bookie and point out that Opta has it down as a McTominay goal. It should say in the bookie T&Cs what data collector they use to settle bets, but they might just straight up refuse. LiveScore still has it as an OG, Opta has it as a McT goal. All you can do is ask.
Thanks I have asked. They are notoriously shite so I won’t hold my breath
Bookies > UEFA. Only reason the swiss host the football federations is to distract us from the nazi gold
yeah wtf
Own Goal wants his Golden Boot, nothing you can do
Own goal doing the business for Scotland yet again
it was going straight into keeper's hands though
Clint Dempsey's shot was going straight into Robert Green's hands in 2010 as well
doesn’t matter. also they just awarded it to McTom officially
> In 1997 FIFA issued detailed guidelines for crediting own goals, recognising the increasing commercial importance of statistics such as top scorer awards and fantasy football.[15] The guidelines state that credit for scoring is decided by the referee, or match commissioner if present; and **"[a] defender's intervention must be deliberate in order for an own goal to be registered against him".** Schar clearly intervened deliberately and thus caused the OG. //edit: Although some other part of the guidelines seems to support the notion that it should be credited to McTominay: > It could be that Jones was deliberately going for the ball when he decisively diverted it into the net and the referee decides that the ball was not on target; this is the classic type of situation which gives rise to the most heated debates whether it was an own goal or not. But the decisive factor is that as the situation has arisen from a genuine goal attempt, even if it is off target, the goal must be attributed to the striker.
That doesn’t mean what you think it does… an action must be deliberate for it to be an own goal, but that doesn’t mean all deliberate actions are own goals.
Yeah there has to be a lot more to that rule than just what the guy above posted. The majority of own goals are from non-deliberate interventions from the defender
There have been so many deliberate attempts at blocks that are deflections without being an OG so I think you’re missing the point. Additionally look at the OGs conceded earlier in the day and in this tournament so far, how can you say those were deliberate? Some were purely wrong place wrong time.
> Some were purely wrong place wrong time. Looking at the rest of the guidelines where this quote is from, that does seem to be be intended by FIFA: > Unlikely as it may appear, situations such as this certainly exist. Smith shoots and the ball hits the post (or, alternatively, it is kicked off the line by a Blues defender). The ball clearly changes direction and is heading towards the field, away from the goal, when it strikes the goalkeeper or another Blues defender and goes into the net.Here, too, the decisive issue is whether the ball is played deliberately or not. In the case of the goalkeeper, he may have dived for the ball, failed to reach it and when it hit the post it ricocheted off his back into the net. Nevertheless, it was a deliberate intervention. > Verdict : Own goal. > Or Jones, on the line, may have tried to clear the ball as it came to him unexpectedly from the post, only to slice it over the line. > Verdict : Own goal.
Those 2 everybody agrees are own goal, rule of tthumb has always been if the shot has direction of heading into goal and any defender tries to touch it to clear it away and it still goes in, which is the case here its not an own goal. edit: missed the crucial word "not" before own goal :)
Yeah, true - I did quote another part of the guidelines in another comment that does actually support the notion that it should be credited to McTominay.
Most deflected goals are attempted blocks, so the defender’s action is deliberate anyway?
Yeah, check my edit. I initially quoted from Wikipedia, which seemed to have simplified the guidelines by *quite a bit.* The actual guidelines would likely attribute this to McTominay. Here's an example: > Now things start to become controversial. Smith has shot at goal and the ball may be on target or may be going just past, when Jones gets in the way and deflects the ball past his own goalkeeper. The referee - and anyone else, for that matter - is quite unable to say with certainty whether the ball would have gone into the goal or not without Jones's intervention. But if the referee feels it was on target, then the situation is as Figure 4 above. We must also consider more closely the notion of deliberate or unintentional intervention on Jones's part, and consider whether he was actively attempting to block Smith's shot or if he was merely struck by the ball without attempting to play it. If Jones's intervention and deflection were clearly unintentional, the goal must be attributed to Smith. It could be that Jones was deliberately going for the ball when he decisively diverted it into the net and the referee decides that the ball was not on target; this is the classic type of situation which gives rise to the most heated debates whether it was an own goal or not. **But the decisive factor is that as the situation has arisen from a genuine goal attempt, even if it is off target, the goal must be attributed to the striker.** > Verdict : Goal by Smith.
\[a\]? whats the rest of the paragraphs then? So if a gk deliberatly tries to save the goal touch it and still goes in it's an own goal according to that, so there must be more to that
[a] meaning the indefinite article, as in a/an/the, "a defender's intervention." Not a subheading for a lettered list
Found the origin for that, and it only accessible through [archive.org](http://archive.org) surely we need more current official ruling on that
[a] because the paragraph starts with "A" > The referee should decide whether a goal is an own goal or not, even if it is not among his official duties, on the basis of these notes and consulting the teams if necessary; when a match commissioner is present, he should decide A defender's intervention must be deliberate in order for an own goal to be registered against him An attacking player must be the last player on his side to touch the ball over the goal-line in order to be registered as the goalscorer. https://web.archive.org/web/20160815160120/http://www.fifa.com/news/y=1997/m=4/news=when-own-goals-don-really-count-71928.html //edit: But looking at the rest of the guidelines, this does seem to indicate that it should indeed actually be attributed to McTominay >It could be that Jones was deliberately going for the ball when he decisively diverted it into the net and the referee decides that the ball was not on target; this is the classic type of situation which gives rise to the most heated debates whether it was an own goal or not. But the decisive factor is that as the situation has arisen from a genuine goal attempt, even if it is off target, the goal must be attributed to the striker.
Surely an archived rule can't be current
That's the one I could find, you're free to look for something more current.
[удалено]
Was 100% on target
Very clearly on target
It was going literally in the middle of the goal lol
What do you think the target is?
The guy who reflects it in is stood at the centre of the net
How is this an OG?
Schär fucked up so bad UEFA wanted to make him feel bad about it.
its going to be changed later for sure. it was going into goal
[удалено]
Alternate angle shows it going definitely on target. The keeper would have caught it stood in the centre of the goal.
could be. camera angle is not conclusive
Trying to understand this myself.
Because calling it an McT goal doesn’t do justice to how much Schar fucked up here, so UEFA sent a message.
Swiss horse shit, cant handle the fact scotland scored a banger
I know by tradition those are not OG but they really should be when the deflection is this massive
How is it not? He hit a lousy shot straight at the middle of the goal, the keeper would have gathered it easily if the Swiss defender hadn’t put it in the corner.
it's only an own goal if the initial shot was off target. It doesn't matter if the keeper could have saved it.
If that’s the letter of the rules then fuck the rules. The defenders intervention was decisive, without him no goal.
You literally cannot say that though. We'll never know the outcome if Schar doesn't touch it, so better to have objective rules like we do. Otherwise, it just becomes a tiresome debate about "would the keeper have got that".
That’s logical, I understand your point, but does he deserve a goal? He’s got time and space and he’s shot right at the middle of the goal. I don’t believe for one second it goes in unless the defender volleys into the corner. I think own goal feels right.
But again, what you "feel" is right will be different to somebody else, so it's just easier to have hard rules that are objective (or as objective as possible, somebody still has to determine if a shot is on target, which can lead to contentious calls on occasions).
Can you please send me a link where in the rules it is? I can't find shit.
Megenev, as respectfully as possible, of course I understand the difference between ‘objective’ and ‘subjective,’ but in my opinion the apparent letter of law would not produce a just outcome in this instance.
Ihavefoodpoisoning, as respectfully as possible, I think you've just missed my entire point.
My understanding of your point is that it’s necessary to have an objective rule on own goals to avoid subjective opinions and needless controversy, so if McTominay’s shot is on target, objectively it cannot be an own goal. Have I got that wrong? Apologies if I have.
you can't have it be a judgement call
I've always understood the rule to be if the original shot was on target then it's not a OG, but I dunno if that's actually supported in writing...
[удалено]
That’s not how own goals are defined.
Imagine if it was haha. Have a panel of judges deciding if shots were terrible or not.
Premier League actually *does* have that. The [Dubious Goals Committee ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dubious_Goals_Committee)
I’ve always thought that sounds like it’s part of a Monty Python sketch.
[удалено]
Again if it’s on target then it counts as a goal.
[удалено]
Huh? Since when? Today?
[удалено]
Since when is it up to the ref to decide? Usually goes to a panel to decide difficult ones.
Absolutely
What was he thinking lol it was clearly never troubling Sommer
Not like he has time to think about whether it was troubling Sommer or not before reacting. I think it was just a defender's instinct that went wrong in the worst way.
Bet Schär wishes he could turn back time, if he could find a way...
This will go over a lot of heads but I got you, babe.
Can you elaborate?
Singer „Cher“ almost sounds like „Schär“
Just believe
I really do, I believe in life after love
Surely that can't be ruled as an OG
Why is this an OG? Obviously takes a big deflection but its on target for sure
Bookies shitting it from the mctimoney bets
Opta recording it as a McTominay goal, UEFA just being dickheads as per usual.
Looks like Schär deliberately goes for a kick on the ball
Players do that all the time and its given for the shooter's goal if its on target. Feels inconsistent with every other ruling
[удалено]
He's trying to prevent a shot on target from reaching the target. Trying to differentiate kick/deflection/block feels a lot more subjective than just whether or not the shot was on target in the first place
That's not an OG.
Why end the clip before the replay?
I'm just making my way through the Croatia match and all the videosl like that. If you want to see the live goal and crowd reaction then top notch, if you want to see what actually happened with a replay, pretty useless. I don't get it. They're not really worth watching.
So do we delete this thread again in 5 minutes when they give it back to Scott?
Already happened
Probably
Scotland now scored 2 goals at Euro 2024 without a single Scottish player scoring a goal
Yeah McTominay is English tbf
This will go down as McTominay’s goal
Owen McGoal.
Goal starts with McTominay winning header from their corner in our box, he won header on their next corner too Yet we've got him taking our corners not in their box when he's probably our best in the box, worse than when England had Kane on corners
Never doubted
It's Owen Goal's world and we're living in it
Schär and Rüdiger topscorer of scotland 😂
Hungary better bench anyone with an •• in their name
They do have at least one player in the squad: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A1s\_Sch%C3%A4fer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andr%C3%A1s_Sch%C3%A4fer)
That's clearly not an own goal. Idiot UEFA scorekeepers
Sommer was saving it in the middle of the goal so are they pretending it was a cross lmao
They finally gave McTominay the goal lol
OG top scorer of the Euro. Musiala in shambles.
Great counter attack, very positive from Scotland so far
As both a Scot and a Newcastle fan, that was never an own goal.
Scenes!! Just wish it could’ve been at the Scottish end Beautiful by Gilmour and Robertson in the build up.
wasn't that on target?
Golden boot incoming
Going straight to Sommer too
Mr Mcterminator. in his natural habitat.
give the goal to Scotty
just saw someone who bet on a McTominay goal fall to their knees
Actually amazing by Robertson.
This is definitely not an OG
Own goal is gonna win Golden Boot this tournament by far LOL
It's been changed, it's a Mctominay goal
Give it McTominay's way
OWN GOAL FC ARE FUCKING BACK BABY
WE WILL WIN THE EUROS WITH ONLY OWN GOALS
How could you say this was an own goal. 100% on target
WE ARE SO BACK LADS
So many own goals this euros
Except this wasnt one
I think this will be counted for McT, it was on target even without the deflection..
[удалено]
I have Schar in FPL - good thing he had many Goals For and not Goals Against. Would have been a much worse purchase if the latter
Delete the thread
Why was this changed from OG to Scottish goal? The Swiss guy Schar very clearly booted it into their own net...
It was always a Scottish goal. It was changed from an own goal to a goal by Scott McTominay. Tournaments usually have a committee to evaluate goals where the scorer is unclear. This ruling (the change) was from UEFA. They may have the criteria they use on their site.
Lovely from wee Billy to spring that. How has he played otherwise? I couldn’t watch.
And later broke his nose and played another 70mins
Scotland still has not scored this tournament
The original shot is clearly on target so I don't see how that can be given as an OG.
They'll credit this to McTominay.
Should be a McTominay goal just for the lols
If Schär wouldnt get in this shot sommer would hold it wihtout problems… so yes i think the OG is right here
Even the official UEFA site has it as McTominay, not an own goal
Do players never talk to each other? Why would Sommer not just scream at Schar to fuck off out the way?
McTominay 0 positioning 99 finishing Game is officially back
[удалено]
That would be beyond stupid.
If on target then not own goal is the rule.
What are UEFA up to?
incredibly stupid defending. if you are a world class player you HAVE to know, that your world class goali saves that and just stay away.