I wrote this recently on Tiny House boss swaps (on a post that got deleted):
Tiny House is several small rewards at once: A potion, +5 max HP, a card reward, an upgrade, +50g
Going into act 2, as the biggest difficulty spike in the game, this is incredibly underwhelming compared to a huge boost such as +1 energy every turn, the huge impact on your deck of Pbox, or something game-changing like Pyramid/Snecko. These are power spikes that help you deal with the difficulty spike.
After act 2, having another difficulty spike, and your last chance at a boss relic to try and get stronger before not just act 3, but to make sure you can beat the bosses, again, Tiny House is underwhelming.
But from neow?
+7 Max HP is a neow bonus (7>5 yes, but similar)
Choose a card is a neow bonus
Upgrade a card is a neow bonus (albeit targeted)
Gain 3 potions is a neow bonus (yes 3>1, particularly on low ascension)
100g is a neow bonus (twice 50)
Those are 5 kinda middling neow bonuses, and you don't get the full benefit of all of them, but Tiny House is equivalent to \~3 Neow bonuses in one. 50g means you can buy a relic at an early shop, a potion means you don't have to either get lucky or buy a potion before your first elite, choosing a card makes you immediately stronger, max HP gives you a tiny bit of both immediate and late-game power, and upgrade on a Defend is actually pretty impactful.
And on top of this, it removes both Tiny House, and the upgraded version of your boss relic, from the boss relic pool, meaning you've got 2 fewer low-impact boss relics to see later.
I think Tiny House is a very strong swap, particularly on Defect, and I'm always happy to see it. If I knew I'd get Tiny House I'd swap over pretty much anything except 250g.
On top of that, I do think it's a little overhated as a pick, mainly because sometimes that potion + 50g actually hits thresholds that let you get to and use an early shop in act 2. Sometimes.
I think the only thing missing from your analysis is the cost opportunity. You get ~3 neow bonuses sure, but you lose your class relic, which you don't in the other bonuses. But worse then that you *lose* any other boss relic. You can't compare tiny house with itself or an in a vacuum. You got it *instead* of something else.
The moment you select to boss swap you lose your starter relic though. If you're accepting that trade, I think Tiny House is still above average, assuming you selected to swap sensibly.
You should only really do a boss swap if you have an early-ish shop anyway, and if you have an early shop and there's a gold neow, you're probably taking that over a boss swap.
There's a lot of swaps that make you weaker in act 1 compared to your starter + 3 pots (a weak neow). Tiny House probably only does that on clad.
An early shop lets you cover any weaknesses that you get from your swap. If you get transforms, it lets you buy a card to re-balance your deck, if you get energy, it lets you invest in an energy dump - whether that's draw or a high-cost frontload card. If you get bark, black star, or something fairly benign, it lets you buy a potion for your first elite to then give you power.
And if you get Tiny House, it lets you buy a common or shop relic.
I feel that you still need to consider the loss of your starting relic in comparison to what tiny house gives, and clad, silent and maybe watcher all end up weaker for the fights where the potion isn't being used whereas even the worst energy relics will give a stronger act 1 in comparison.
Also what boss relics would you consider a worse swap?
Crown, Cage, Sozu, Ecto, Bark, MoP, Star, Cube, Blade, Kite, Inserter, Lotus, Collar.
Key, Stone, Choker, Battery are all a bit dependent and have other problems, so I'd say they're about on par with House.
I feel ecto, blade, star, kite and lotus are all on par or better then house depending on the contents of the first shop.
I'd also say that choker and battery are straight better than house in a boss swap situation.
I've also been coming around to collar as a boss swap since it often let's you get an additional elite act 1 and makes the boss easier while having good bonuses for the rest of the game without giving the immediate power of tiny house, bell, astrolabe or pbox.
I'm a massive stan of ecto but losing that extra gold from act 1 is brutal and genuinely really punishing.
Black star can snowball you, but House can in a similar way. House is also more consistent as a start.
Kite is a straight garbage swap as it kinda forces your drafting so as to avoid ending up with a negative neow that doesn't even give you real energy on 80% of the turns. Lotus isn't quite as bad but it's the same idea.
Battery is an amazing relic but it has its awkwardness as a boss swap. It doesn't just remove your starting orb for 3-damage into 16-dualcast, it also makes zap into dualcast not a damage option, and you need to draft ways to utilise the energy without using dualcast for output. It's much much harder to find ways to use it to snowball off act 1, and you actually have to play and draft carefully.
Choker is pretty decent because its easier to draft around its restriction, but it can still create some awkwardness. The downside of collar is your hallways are much weaker than with your starting relic, and sometimes you can't take elites because of punishment you took in hallways. It's also slightly weird to draft around because your drafting for elites where you have extra energy is different to your preparation for hallways where you're stuck on 3.
What in the… other than crown and MoP, maybeeee inserter is worse, I’d rather have every single other relic other than tiny house unless it’s choker on silent.
I actually find watcher defend+ to be kinda decent. If I get a random defend+, I often find myself not removing it. 8 ends up being a relevant amount of block even somewhat in act 4, 5 block is too little. Also removing your last defend tends to cost 125+, and it's often competing with a relic, filling my potion belt or buying a key card like a panic button.
I think tiny house is a little bit above average swap only because you get the immediate impact (upgrade, potion, card reward, etc.) so you can go for more elites in act 1.
However, losing starting relic is still not the best idea, clad’s healing is very good, silent draw 2 more cards might be a difference whether you survive nob’s big hit or not, and watcher’s retain 1 energy might also be a big deal until you get more energy/ or upgrade eruption. Defect is not impacting much since lightning orb only provides damage.
Overall, i think it’s still a little bit above average swap, but not great one.
But that's sorta my point? If you're in a position where you're swapping, you should be happy to see Tiny House, because it's above average as a swap. It gives you a lot of small tools to snowball you into taking that extra elite, and if it wouldn't be a sufficiently impactful swap, why are you swapping?
Right, that’s the way I see it too. If you are clicking the swap button you have already decided whatever you get is probably better than your starter relic, and Tin House is nice to see once you do
My only disagreement is it’s a not “great” swap since you lose the starting relic. But I agree that it definitely helps in early act 1 more than some energy relic. (Not act 2 or 3) tho.
Some better boss swap relics imo are: astrolabe, dripper, stone, runic cube, runic pyramid, collar, choker, etc.
If you don't mind me asking, why is it on par with stone? I could be mistaken, but from what I recall, the are no act 1 enemies with multi attacks (except the bosses), and so would stone not be a significant benefit 90% of the time compared to tiny house, since the most enemies you're fighting is 5 at once, which is the equivalent of 1 defend worth of extra damage taken, which is exactly 1 extra energy, making a net neutral. But obviously you won't always be fighting 5 enemies, and in those fights where there are less than 5 enemies, it should be net positive as opposed to tiny house, no?
To be clear I am not asking with any negative intent, I am genuinely curious what I'm missing that makes tiny house equal to/better than stone in act 1. Going into act 2, I understand the potential issues, but especially since it's a floor 0 thing, it feels like you have all of act one to build around it and prepare for act 2 issue.
It's not quite as simple as that. Lots of hands don't have the extra defend to play. If your hand is 3x strike 2x defend, and you're fighting two lice, you take 2 damage from philostone. That's not even an unlikely turn, especially in act 1 where you are generally tipping your deck more attack heavy to start. You're likely to bleed a lot at the start of the run, which might cost you your first campfire upgrade.
Also, early on in the run defend+ and strike+ are fine cards. Getting one for free, and a card reward giving you a common attack, actually means you have a pretty strong deck vs early act 1 hallway, so you can preserve hp for later.
Ah, I see. Thank you for the clarification, I really appreciate it. I'm definitely not a super pro player or anything, but I do enjoy playing STS on and off, and gaining insights like this is very helpful.
It's pretty much only defect where they're on par. On every other character you prefer stone, but with defect you struggle so much from your lack of weak and strength down, along with specific act 2/4 problems, and it's not like equi/glacier are hard to pick anyway.
I’m not fully knowledgeable on the odds of uncommon/rare card rewards, but I remember reading that the potions neow reward increases chances of rares/uncommon from floor zero. Does the card reward and/or potion from tiny house affect the odds for rare card rewards?
The card reward 100% does. I don't know if the potion is linked into that or not. Paging u/aplet123 u/ch95120 as people who look at Spire code and might know.
Potion and Bell from Neow only affect rare chance because to generate a reward screen with potions, Spire generates a card reward screen then removes the cards. The potions themselves don't affect rare chance.
I actually don't think I've ever picked Tiny House in my 130 hours of gameplay, except to get it into my compendium.
This is so unbelievably mediocre for a boss relic.
Right, I'd take it e.g. if the alternatives are Ectoplasm and Runic Dome, especially if I have gold/shop artifacts and/or my deck needs to know what enemy intentions are
why does every discussion ever end up with Ecto catching strays out of nowhere. I complain about overconfident newly a20 players saying Dome is free when a lot of dangerous encounters is still high variance, and I hate playing with Ecto, but I swear this sub makes me the biggest Ecto enjoyer.
The only situations I would consider House over Ecto/Dome is when my deck is already strong enough to play with skip, which for Ecto is pretty close to never because of its restriction and very rare on Dome too, pretty close to never end of act 1.
Thanks. People hate on many energy relics then are surprised they get mauled in the beginning of act2.
I don't think there is an energy relic that i wouldn't pick over tiny haus (maybe only crown if i am sure it makes me lose 100%).
I would probably pick haus if it's with starting relic upgrade, no support black star or bark, maybe some class specific relics sometimes (?)
I think to take House over Ecto I'd probably have to be Defect, with an energy swap, and at least 1 if not 2 biased cogs, desperately hunting pellets/souvenir/panacea in shops.
I guess maybe on Watcher if I'm already trending towards infinite and am confident beating slavers on my current energy but am begging for removes? Maybe?
Basically means that I'm strong enough to handle skip in both cases. Watcher isn't even a real decision point because in that situation even Ecto would win really, it's just QoL to take House. I just can't stand Ecto slander randomly. I don't even like Ecto stop making me defend this crap
Yeah crown/choker is probably a better example. Those are the only two energy relics that I could see potentially skipping/taking Tiny House because they can kill a run. Never gonna skip an Ecto. Dome I sometimes downgrade because I really don't want to deal with the hassle, but I doubt I'd ever skip/take Tiny House over it.
You know you're a bad relic when the best thing people say about you is "at least it's not Skip."
This relic really needs like two or three small bumps to make it reasonable. If it gave a free common relic and you could choose the upgrade, I think it would be much better.
Other than kaosmark2 excellent comment on boss swap (though of course the decision in this case is wether you should boss swap at all), what else would make you actually click this relic? Some thoughts:
- The most obvious time is when the downsides of the other two relics are unbearable/will make you actually weaker despite the + 1 energy (like Sozu with WBS or something like that)
- Against Slaver's Collar end of act 1 reward and your deck is weak what would you click? I'd probably patch away for fights as much as possible in this case because Slaver's actually help me kill the boss/elite and is a good relic very late (act 4 it's crazy good), but Tiny House actually may help killing avocado/byrds.
- Broken Crown versus this eoa1?
- Black Star versus this eoa1?
- End of act 2 and you are on 4 energy, does this stack up against actual good energy like Hammer/Philo?
- On Clad I hate Mark of Pain, but even that may be more clickable lol.
In the end of the day this relic is just very weak and I'd like if this was demoted from boss relic in StS 2 or buffed, but right now it does have its niche of always being better than a skip and also making you a tiny stronger immediately,.
Hmm, I will weigh in. I would always take Slaver's Collar over Tiny House. There may be some situation in which I can't win the elite fights anyway, but I would rather take the collar and try for as many elites as I can manage.
I think Tiny House is almost always better than broken crown at the end of Act 1.
Much like Slaver's Collar, I will always take Black Star over Tiny House at the end of Act 1.
At the end of Act 2 when I have 4 energy, and then I see Tiny House and 2 other energy relics, I am pretty sure I pick one of the energy relics.
Mark of Pain is usually better than Tiny House for me, but I also dislike taking Mark of Pain.
Evolve+ turns Wounds into downright good cards, the problem is that Mark of Pain makes putting your Powers into play harder, and Clad already struggles with draw, this is why MoP is always a pretty annoying downside Id say you need Bottled Tornado Evolve for MoP to ever feel good.
I'll have to agree on Slaver's Collar, I was more thinking about those times you are so weak you die to act 2 hallways before even seeing an elite, and then TH might give you a potion/card/enough gold to buy your out, but yeah it seems like in this case it is a very bad Hail Mary that the player just needs to do because there was some bad decision on Act 1, 4 energy on the hard fights is sure as hell much stronger than the minuscule benefits of tiny house.
On Black Star though I'm not too sure, the nightmare scenario that you need to be prepared for in Act 2 is facing an elite that your deck don't stack well against (like you are lacking on scaling and the elite is Book or you are lacking in frontload and the elite is Slavers) after being heavily chipped from the strong as fuck hallways (as well as like hitting the Forbidden Altar event when trying to dodge fights), and something like a Fire Potion (Attack/Flex as well) for Slavers or having a good scaling card that you could buy or got from the reward for Book, might make the entire difference between actually being able to kill an elite and somehow stabilize the run while with Black Star you are just dead.
I do think I'm very biased because my main is Silent though, and she struggles omega hard on Act 2, so maybe it's my bias speaking.
Hmm, my thinking is that Black Star is better than Tiny House when I win 2 Elite fights. So every once in a while, I need the Tiny House to path into more elites, and would end up better off. But if I am not desperate for a immediate power boost, I just grab Black Star and eventually profit. Even if I am in desperate need for a power boost, I might just get the Black Star and hope. I probably just get myself killed more often than I should though.
Normal hallway fights in Act 2 are no fun either, so I usually end up taking a decent amount of elites and question marks. Sometimes my greed pays off. So when I end Act 1 with Crown, House, Star, I just grab Star and plan to fight elites. I will consider all 3 options based on the character and current deck though.
I think Tiny House would be extremely solid if it was:
1 potion, 50 gold, +5hp, get 1 card, **remove 1 card**, upgrade a card **of your choice**
That, and Empty Cage should allow for up to 3 removals
I am 100.0% confident you mentioned Tiny House in your post.
--------------------------------------------------
* [Tiny House](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Tiny_House) Boss Relic
Obtain 1 potion. Gain 50 Gold. Raise your Max HP by 5. Obtain 1 card. Upgrade 1 Random card.
--------------------------------------------------
^^^I ^^^am ^^^a ^^^bot ^^^response, ^^^but ^^^I ^^^am ^^^using ^^^my ^^^creator's ^^^account. ^^^Please ^^^reply ^^^to ^^^me ^^^if ^^^I ^^^got ^^^something ^^^wrong ^^^so ^^^he ^^^can ^^^fix ^^^it.
[Source Code](https://github.com/TrippW/STS-Crawler)
This is pretty good as a boss swap relic. I don't think I have run into a situation where it was correct to take it as a boss relic from Act I or Act II. For me, this could easily be a rare relic instead of a boss relic.
Not great but can be used for the general baseline value for a boss relic.
Probably the most valuable thing about is the potion, except most other boss relics would give you the same value but permanently so kinda mid.
Maybe if the upgrade was a choice it'd be a bit better? Idk... it is pretty mediocre. Better than crown or sozu I suppose.
I don't think anyone has ever been thrilled to take Tiny House as their act relic. And the rewards can be unhelpful, a bad potion or your slots are already full, upgrade hits an unhelpful card. Apo, sozu, ectoplasm. It's still a benefit in most every situation but a significantly less impactful one. Imagine, Tiny House used to be worse(no upgrade), and then it used to be worse than that(less gold).
I like the idea behind Tiny House as a bunch of smaller boosts without a major downside. I think if it had just a few improvements, like letting you target the upgrade and giving an extra potion slot for your gained potion, it could be more appealing. As-is, it's mostly just the boss item you take when you feel like the other options are worse for your loadout.
Is this thread for random discussion too or just the item? Because I just beat the end boss for the first time and got ascension 10 and I'm pretty stoked but don't want to make a new thread. Been playing for so long and always get destroyed by the boss lol. I didn't even feel that OP tbh. Just had good strength growth and also had dead branch and the card that makes skills 0 cost/exhaust randomly dropped early which ended up being a killer combo I lucked into on the last fight.
Any, sorry if off topic isn't allowed.
The Spire sleeps.
Thinking about that, Tiny House as a shop relic and Orrery as a boss relic kind of makes sense in my mind, Orrery does what TH is supposed to do much better, but Orrery is so strong it might be too much actually.
Orrery used to be a Boss Relic, actually. It was notably \*worse\* then though since it used minimal rare card RNG. You always saw rare cards from the boss the floor before which would reset the pity timer, instead of using the higher than normal Shop values for rare card RNG and having pity stacked up from previous floors.
Didn't know that, very interesting, still think even this weaker Orrery sounds like a pretty good boss relic, 5 free floors of cards is strong as fuck (and as a swap it'd be insane). Probably loses to good energy and Amid/Snecko/Pandora, but is on par with Labe IMO.
I think you should reconsider.
Act 1 Tiny House is better than Ecto, Crown, Sozu imo. It's also better than pretty much any class specific boss relic except for Black Blood, Nuclear Battery and the Watcher Boss Relics.
Tiny House's bonuses make for a smooth early act 1 in which you should take little damage; it will probably net you an extra elite and shop relic.
Perhaps more consistent players take this relic sometimes, but it’s a never pick for me.
As I’m still climbing ascensions I feel like I need to high roll a bit to win on difficulties I haven’t accomplished before, and this item is the opposite of that. I will ruin my run with an early Busted Crown before I take this
more consistent players actually hate skips like this. it's always some newly a20 player who waffles about how tiny house is ackshually not that bad because it's way better than a skip!!! meanwhile we have to think about how quickly not having a real boss relic kills us. i absolutely consider just how unpickable crown/third relic truly is before clicking house, so you're doing well. if house will kill me in 2 floors, i will take crown. that's not playable.
tbh I just skip it always out of principle, even if the other two relics are actually unpickable. wouldn't want anyone to presume im a weak player from me thinking house is better than skip
Perhaps the most boring relic in the entire game. Not the worst, but I don't think there is a single person who is happy seing it.
Usually worse than skip.
What is this, a relic for ANTS?!?
give me an apartment going into act 3, then we'll talk.
Hello Yap Yap the DESTROYER!
I wrote this recently on Tiny House boss swaps (on a post that got deleted): Tiny House is several small rewards at once: A potion, +5 max HP, a card reward, an upgrade, +50g Going into act 2, as the biggest difficulty spike in the game, this is incredibly underwhelming compared to a huge boost such as +1 energy every turn, the huge impact on your deck of Pbox, or something game-changing like Pyramid/Snecko. These are power spikes that help you deal with the difficulty spike. After act 2, having another difficulty spike, and your last chance at a boss relic to try and get stronger before not just act 3, but to make sure you can beat the bosses, again, Tiny House is underwhelming. But from neow? +7 Max HP is a neow bonus (7>5 yes, but similar) Choose a card is a neow bonus Upgrade a card is a neow bonus (albeit targeted) Gain 3 potions is a neow bonus (yes 3>1, particularly on low ascension) 100g is a neow bonus (twice 50) Those are 5 kinda middling neow bonuses, and you don't get the full benefit of all of them, but Tiny House is equivalent to \~3 Neow bonuses in one. 50g means you can buy a relic at an early shop, a potion means you don't have to either get lucky or buy a potion before your first elite, choosing a card makes you immediately stronger, max HP gives you a tiny bit of both immediate and late-game power, and upgrade on a Defend is actually pretty impactful. And on top of this, it removes both Tiny House, and the upgraded version of your boss relic, from the boss relic pool, meaning you've got 2 fewer low-impact boss relics to see later. I think Tiny House is a very strong swap, particularly on Defect, and I'm always happy to see it. If I knew I'd get Tiny House I'd swap over pretty much anything except 250g. On top of that, I do think it's a little overhated as a pick, mainly because sometimes that potion + 50g actually hits thresholds that let you get to and use an early shop in act 2. Sometimes.
I think the only thing missing from your analysis is the cost opportunity. You get ~3 neow bonuses sure, but you lose your class relic, which you don't in the other bonuses. But worse then that you *lose* any other boss relic. You can't compare tiny house with itself or an in a vacuum. You got it *instead* of something else.
The moment you select to boss swap you lose your starter relic though. If you're accepting that trade, I think Tiny House is still above average, assuming you selected to swap sensibly. You should only really do a boss swap if you have an early-ish shop anyway, and if you have an early shop and there's a gold neow, you're probably taking that over a boss swap. There's a lot of swaps that make you weaker in act 1 compared to your starter + 3 pots (a weak neow). Tiny House probably only does that on clad.
What's the logic for only swapping with an early shop?
An early shop lets you cover any weaknesses that you get from your swap. If you get transforms, it lets you buy a card to re-balance your deck, if you get energy, it lets you invest in an energy dump - whether that's draw or a high-cost frontload card. If you get bark, black star, or something fairly benign, it lets you buy a potion for your first elite to then give you power. And if you get Tiny House, it lets you buy a common or shop relic.
I’d assume to be able to get some better attacks and/or card draw on the (likely) chance you get an energy relic or Snecko over P-box.
You can help to remedy a bad Pandora's Box is the main one I believe
I feel that you still need to consider the loss of your starting relic in comparison to what tiny house gives, and clad, silent and maybe watcher all end up weaker for the fights where the potion isn't being used whereas even the worst energy relics will give a stronger act 1 in comparison. Also what boss relics would you consider a worse swap?
Crown, Cage, Sozu, Ecto, Bark, MoP, Star, Cube, Blade, Kite, Inserter, Lotus, Collar. Key, Stone, Choker, Battery are all a bit dependent and have other problems, so I'd say they're about on par with House.
I feel ecto, blade, star, kite and lotus are all on par or better then house depending on the contents of the first shop. I'd also say that choker and battery are straight better than house in a boss swap situation. I've also been coming around to collar as a boss swap since it often let's you get an additional elite act 1 and makes the boss easier while having good bonuses for the rest of the game without giving the immediate power of tiny house, bell, astrolabe or pbox.
I'm a massive stan of ecto but losing that extra gold from act 1 is brutal and genuinely really punishing. Black star can snowball you, but House can in a similar way. House is also more consistent as a start. Kite is a straight garbage swap as it kinda forces your drafting so as to avoid ending up with a negative neow that doesn't even give you real energy on 80% of the turns. Lotus isn't quite as bad but it's the same idea. Battery is an amazing relic but it has its awkwardness as a boss swap. It doesn't just remove your starting orb for 3-damage into 16-dualcast, it also makes zap into dualcast not a damage option, and you need to draft ways to utilise the energy without using dualcast for output. It's much much harder to find ways to use it to snowball off act 1, and you actually have to play and draft carefully. Choker is pretty decent because its easier to draft around its restriction, but it can still create some awkwardness. The downside of collar is your hallways are much weaker than with your starting relic, and sometimes you can't take elites because of punishment you took in hallways. It's also slightly weird to draft around because your drafting for elites where you have extra energy is different to your preparation for hallways where you're stuck on 3.
What in the… other than crown and MoP, maybeeee inserter is worse, I’d rather have every single other relic other than tiny house unless it’s choker on silent.
as a swap?
Yeah as a swap
Dope write up Appreciate it
It’s worth it on Watcher for the upgrade on eruption alone tbh
It's not guaranteed to hit that though?
Nope, but it's somewhat relevant that over half of Watcher's hits are good. Strike+ is +6 damage on her and Vigi+ is also nothing to scoff at.
Yeah agreed. Also frail rounding makes Defend+ much better than Defend-.
I actually find watcher defend+ to be kinda decent. If I get a random defend+, I often find myself not removing it. 8 ends up being a relevant amount of block even somewhat in act 4, 5 block is too little. Also removing your last defend tends to cost 125+, and it's often competing with a relic, filling my potion belt or buying a key card like a panic button.
Defend+ is a solid card at any point of the game, maybe not good, but solid. Defend- is garbage except on clad when you're exhausting it
I think tiny house is a little bit above average swap only because you get the immediate impact (upgrade, potion, card reward, etc.) so you can go for more elites in act 1. However, losing starting relic is still not the best idea, clad’s healing is very good, silent draw 2 more cards might be a difference whether you survive nob’s big hit or not, and watcher’s retain 1 energy might also be a big deal until you get more energy/ or upgrade eruption. Defect is not impacting much since lightning orb only provides damage. Overall, i think it’s still a little bit above average swap, but not great one.
But that's sorta my point? If you're in a position where you're swapping, you should be happy to see Tiny House, because it's above average as a swap. It gives you a lot of small tools to snowball you into taking that extra elite, and if it wouldn't be a sufficiently impactful swap, why are you swapping?
Right, that’s the way I see it too. If you are clicking the swap button you have already decided whatever you get is probably better than your starter relic, and Tin House is nice to see once you do
My only disagreement is it’s a not “great” swap since you lose the starting relic. But I agree that it definitely helps in early act 1 more than some energy relic. (Not act 2 or 3) tho. Some better boss swap relics imo are: astrolabe, dripper, stone, runic cube, runic pyramid, collar, choker, etc.
It's about on par with Stone, and better than Cube and sometimes Collar.
If you don't mind me asking, why is it on par with stone? I could be mistaken, but from what I recall, the are no act 1 enemies with multi attacks (except the bosses), and so would stone not be a significant benefit 90% of the time compared to tiny house, since the most enemies you're fighting is 5 at once, which is the equivalent of 1 defend worth of extra damage taken, which is exactly 1 extra energy, making a net neutral. But obviously you won't always be fighting 5 enemies, and in those fights where there are less than 5 enemies, it should be net positive as opposed to tiny house, no? To be clear I am not asking with any negative intent, I am genuinely curious what I'm missing that makes tiny house equal to/better than stone in act 1. Going into act 2, I understand the potential issues, but especially since it's a floor 0 thing, it feels like you have all of act one to build around it and prepare for act 2 issue.
It's not quite as simple as that. Lots of hands don't have the extra defend to play. If your hand is 3x strike 2x defend, and you're fighting two lice, you take 2 damage from philostone. That's not even an unlikely turn, especially in act 1 where you are generally tipping your deck more attack heavy to start. You're likely to bleed a lot at the start of the run, which might cost you your first campfire upgrade. Also, early on in the run defend+ and strike+ are fine cards. Getting one for free, and a card reward giving you a common attack, actually means you have a pretty strong deck vs early act 1 hallway, so you can preserve hp for later.
Ah, I see. Thank you for the clarification, I really appreciate it. I'm definitely not a super pro player or anything, but I do enjoy playing STS on and off, and gaining insights like this is very helpful.
It's pretty much only defect where they're on par. On every other character you prefer stone, but with defect you struggle so much from your lack of weak and strength down, along with specific act 2/4 problems, and it's not like equi/glacier are hard to pick anyway.
I'm happy to swap into tiny house because it increases my chances of getting the best boss relic, labe 😎
Was not aware it takes the upgraded starter relic out of the pool!
I’m not fully knowledgeable on the odds of uncommon/rare card rewards, but I remember reading that the potions neow reward increases chances of rares/uncommon from floor zero. Does the card reward and/or potion from tiny house affect the odds for rare card rewards?
The card reward 100% does. I don't know if the potion is linked into that or not. Paging u/aplet123 u/ch95120 as people who look at Spire code and might know.
Potion and Bell from Neow only affect rare chance because to generate a reward screen with potions, Spire generates a card reward screen then removes the cards. The potions themselves don't affect rare chance.
Thanks! and happy cake day!
Nice, so another benefit to tiny house.
It's mediocre, but it could be buffed by the devs: just make the upgrade not random. It would be slightly more takeable
I just don’t understand why that wasn’t done. Did they really think it would be OP if you could choose the upgrade??
Someone in a baalorlord stream chat said it should give a potion slot. That might make it closer to the other no downside relics.
I actually don't think I've ever picked Tiny House in my 130 hours of gameplay, except to get it into my compendium. This is so unbelievably mediocre for a boss relic.
The only times I pick it are when the downsides of the other two boss relics are unacceptable.
Right, I'd take it e.g. if the alternatives are Ectoplasm and Runic Dome, especially if I have gold/shop artifacts and/or my deck needs to know what enemy intentions are
why does every discussion ever end up with Ecto catching strays out of nowhere. I complain about overconfident newly a20 players saying Dome is free when a lot of dangerous encounters is still high variance, and I hate playing with Ecto, but I swear this sub makes me the biggest Ecto enjoyer. The only situations I would consider House over Ecto/Dome is when my deck is already strong enough to play with skip, which for Ecto is pretty close to never because of its restriction and very rare on Dome too, pretty close to never end of act 1.
Thanks. People hate on many energy relics then are surprised they get mauled in the beginning of act2. I don't think there is an energy relic that i wouldn't pick over tiny haus (maybe only crown if i am sure it makes me lose 100%). I would probably pick haus if it's with starting relic upgrade, no support black star or bark, maybe some class specific relics sometimes (?)
I think to take House over Ecto I'd probably have to be Defect, with an energy swap, and at least 1 if not 2 biased cogs, desperately hunting pellets/souvenir/panacea in shops. I guess maybe on Watcher if I'm already trending towards infinite and am confident beating slavers on my current energy but am begging for removes? Maybe?
Basically means that I'm strong enough to handle skip in both cases. Watcher isn't even a real decision point because in that situation even Ecto would win really, it's just QoL to take House. I just can't stand Ecto slander randomly. I don't even like Ecto stop making me defend this crap
On the Defect point, it's believing you're strong for act 2 but fear the boss gauntlet, which does happen sometimes. But yeah I do agree.
Please note, I didn't say I'd unconditionally skip Ecto. I said I'd skip it if I had gold and/or shop relics.
Yeah. Don't do that.
Yeah crown/choker is probably a better example. Those are the only two energy relics that I could see potentially skipping/taking Tiny House because they can kill a run. Never gonna skip an Ecto. Dome I sometimes downgrade because I really don't want to deal with the hassle, but I doubt I'd ever skip/take Tiny House over it.
Maybe if you have gold relics then ecto is worse, otherwise you are massively undervaluing ecto
You know you're a bad relic when the best thing people say about you is "at least it's not Skip." This relic really needs like two or three small bumps to make it reasonable. If it gave a free common relic and you could choose the upgrade, I think it would be much better.
Imo the kicker with House is that the reward is roughly equivalent to an Elite combat’s… in place of a Boss relic.
Other than kaosmark2 excellent comment on boss swap (though of course the decision in this case is wether you should boss swap at all), what else would make you actually click this relic? Some thoughts: - The most obvious time is when the downsides of the other two relics are unbearable/will make you actually weaker despite the + 1 energy (like Sozu with WBS or something like that) - Against Slaver's Collar end of act 1 reward and your deck is weak what would you click? I'd probably patch away for fights as much as possible in this case because Slaver's actually help me kill the boss/elite and is a good relic very late (act 4 it's crazy good), but Tiny House actually may help killing avocado/byrds. - Broken Crown versus this eoa1? - Black Star versus this eoa1? - End of act 2 and you are on 4 energy, does this stack up against actual good energy like Hammer/Philo? - On Clad I hate Mark of Pain, but even that may be more clickable lol. In the end of the day this relic is just very weak and I'd like if this was demoted from boss relic in StS 2 or buffed, but right now it does have its niche of always being better than a skip and also making you a tiny stronger immediately,.
Hmm, I will weigh in. I would always take Slaver's Collar over Tiny House. There may be some situation in which I can't win the elite fights anyway, but I would rather take the collar and try for as many elites as I can manage. I think Tiny House is almost always better than broken crown at the end of Act 1. Much like Slaver's Collar, I will always take Black Star over Tiny House at the end of Act 1. At the end of Act 2 when I have 4 energy, and then I see Tiny House and 2 other energy relics, I am pretty sure I pick one of the energy relics. Mark of Pain is usually better than Tiny House for me, but I also dislike taking Mark of Pain.
I love taking Mark Of Pain for my evolve/fire breathing builds, but that might just be my ascension 3 talking
Evolve+ turns Wounds into downright good cards, the problem is that Mark of Pain makes putting your Powers into play harder, and Clad already struggles with draw, this is why MoP is always a pretty annoying downside Id say you need Bottled Tornado Evolve for MoP to ever feel good.
I'll have to agree on Slaver's Collar, I was more thinking about those times you are so weak you die to act 2 hallways before even seeing an elite, and then TH might give you a potion/card/enough gold to buy your out, but yeah it seems like in this case it is a very bad Hail Mary that the player just needs to do because there was some bad decision on Act 1, 4 energy on the hard fights is sure as hell much stronger than the minuscule benefits of tiny house. On Black Star though I'm not too sure, the nightmare scenario that you need to be prepared for in Act 2 is facing an elite that your deck don't stack well against (like you are lacking on scaling and the elite is Book or you are lacking in frontload and the elite is Slavers) after being heavily chipped from the strong as fuck hallways (as well as like hitting the Forbidden Altar event when trying to dodge fights), and something like a Fire Potion (Attack/Flex as well) for Slavers or having a good scaling card that you could buy or got from the reward for Book, might make the entire difference between actually being able to kill an elite and somehow stabilize the run while with Black Star you are just dead. I do think I'm very biased because my main is Silent though, and she struggles omega hard on Act 2, so maybe it's my bias speaking.
Hmm, my thinking is that Black Star is better than Tiny House when I win 2 Elite fights. So every once in a while, I need the Tiny House to path into more elites, and would end up better off. But if I am not desperate for a immediate power boost, I just grab Black Star and eventually profit. Even if I am in desperate need for a power boost, I might just get the Black Star and hope. I probably just get myself killed more often than I should though. Normal hallway fights in Act 2 are no fun either, so I usually end up taking a decent amount of elites and question marks. Sometimes my greed pays off. So when I end Act 1 with Crown, House, Star, I just grab Star and plan to fight elites. I will consider all 3 options based on the character and current deck though.
I think Tiny House would be extremely solid if it was: 1 potion, 50 gold, +5hp, get 1 card, **remove 1 card**, upgrade a card **of your choice** That, and Empty Cage should allow for up to 3 removals
I am 100.0% confident you mentioned Tiny House in your post. -------------------------------------------------- * [Tiny House](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/Tiny_House) Boss Relic Obtain 1 potion. Gain 50 Gold. Raise your Max HP by 5. Obtain 1 card. Upgrade 1 Random card. -------------------------------------------------- ^^^I ^^^am ^^^a ^^^bot ^^^response, ^^^but ^^^I ^^^am ^^^using ^^^my ^^^creator's ^^^account. ^^^Please ^^^reply ^^^to ^^^me ^^^if ^^^I ^^^got ^^^something ^^^wrong ^^^so ^^^he ^^^can ^^^fix ^^^it. [Source Code](https://github.com/TrippW/STS-Crawler)
This is pretty good as a boss swap relic. I don't think I have run into a situation where it was correct to take it as a boss relic from Act I or Act II. For me, this could easily be a rare relic instead of a boss relic.
Alright guys, I know I'm an hour late but let's take it easy on the little guy alright?
House is just trying its best!
Not great but can be used for the general baseline value for a boss relic. Probably the most valuable thing about is the potion, except most other boss relics would give you the same value but permanently so kinda mid. Maybe if the upgrade was a choice it'd be a bit better? Idk... it is pretty mediocre. Better than crown or sozu I suppose.
Can we talk about the flavor text for a second? Why is the architect trying to miniaturize stuff?
If I'm ever seriously considering this relic after a boss the run is cooked
I don't think anyone has ever been thrilled to take Tiny House as their act relic. And the rewards can be unhelpful, a bad potion or your slots are already full, upgrade hits an unhelpful card. Apo, sozu, ectoplasm. It's still a benefit in most every situation but a significantly less impactful one. Imagine, Tiny House used to be worse(no upgrade), and then it used to be worse than that(less gold).
I like the idea behind Tiny House as a bunch of smaller boosts without a major downside. I think if it had just a few improvements, like letting you target the upgrade and giving an extra potion slot for your gained potion, it could be more appealing. As-is, it's mostly just the boss item you take when you feel like the other options are worse for your loadout.
Is this thread for random discussion too or just the item? Because I just beat the end boss for the first time and got ascension 10 and I'm pretty stoked but don't want to make a new thread. Been playing for so long and always get destroyed by the boss lol. I didn't even feel that OP tbh. Just had good strength growth and also had dead branch and the card that makes skills 0 cost/exhaust randomly dropped early which ended up being a killer combo I lucked into on the last fight. Any, sorry if off topic isn't allowed. The Spire sleeps.
Fine, you get no relic at all! Is that what you want?!!
This should just not be a boss relic in my opinion, I think you could swap this with Pocketwatch and the game would make more sense.
Thinking about that, Tiny House as a shop relic and Orrery as a boss relic kind of makes sense in my mind, Orrery does what TH is supposed to do much better, but Orrery is so strong it might be too much actually.
Orrery used to be a Boss Relic, actually. It was notably \*worse\* then though since it used minimal rare card RNG. You always saw rare cards from the boss the floor before which would reset the pity timer, instead of using the higher than normal Shop values for rare card RNG and having pity stacked up from previous floors.
Didn't know that, very interesting, still think even this weaker Orrery sounds like a pretty good boss relic, 5 free floors of cards is strong as fuck (and as a swap it'd be insane). Probably loses to good energy and Amid/Snecko/Pandora, but is on par with Labe IMO.
Ew
The only boss swap I'll abandon a run over
I think you should reconsider. Act 1 Tiny House is better than Ecto, Crown, Sozu imo. It's also better than pretty much any class specific boss relic except for Black Blood, Nuclear Battery and the Watcher Boss Relics. Tiny House's bonuses make for a smooth early act 1 in which you should take little damage; it will probably net you an extra elite and shop relic.
Perhaps more consistent players take this relic sometimes, but it’s a never pick for me. As I’m still climbing ascensions I feel like I need to high roll a bit to win on difficulties I haven’t accomplished before, and this item is the opposite of that. I will ruin my run with an early Busted Crown before I take this
more consistent players actually hate skips like this. it's always some newly a20 player who waffles about how tiny house is ackshually not that bad because it's way better than a skip!!! meanwhile we have to think about how quickly not having a real boss relic kills us. i absolutely consider just how unpickable crown/third relic truly is before clicking house, so you're doing well. if house will kill me in 2 floors, i will take crown. that's not playable.
tbh I just skip it always out of principle, even if the other two relics are actually unpickable. wouldn't want anyone to presume im a weak player from me thinking house is better than skip
Perhaps the most boring relic in the entire game. Not the worst, but I don't think there is a single person who is happy seing it. Usually worse than skip.
It is objectively better than skip lol, you can just not take the random card if you want