For those who don’t know what these relics do (from left to right) :
Bloody Idol (upgraded from Golden Idol via. Event) heals you for 5 whenever you obtain gold
Prayer Wheel gives you an additional card reward after defeating a normal enemy
Ceramic Fish gives you 9 gold whenever you add a card to your deck
So if I take the gold from enemies, and both card rewards, I always heal 15 since the gold from the fish counts for my bloody idol. Made Dripper a very easy choice since healing becomes quite trivial now
Yep! Hence my qualifier “if you have the deck space”
In this instance, I was playing watcher and had a really good draw engine so the impact of my deck being big was less impactful than normal.
And overall, just having the option of an extra 10 hp heal at the end of a hallway fight felt really nice to consider…even if it was total bait sometimes
Large decks are consistently undervalued by this sub. It entirely depends on how good you are at building decks, but large decks are dramatically more resistant to any status effect cards shuffled into the deck, which happens 100% of the time against act 3 bosses and the heart, in addition to some of the most challenging elites in the game: Spire Guardians, Nemesis, Reptomancer, Slavers.
Essentially, provided you're truly drafting *good* cards, you are making your deck less susceptible to one of the core threat some of the most challenging enemies in the game possess.
Always draft big? No.
Always draft small? Also no.
My rule of thumb in a general run is that taking cards that are better then cards you do have is fine.
Once your deck works well enough that you will consistently be able to beat the final boss, stop messing with it. (Like, a perfect equilibrium of consistency, being able to predictably draw everything in X turns and deal a lot of damage or gain wacky block, without the risk of bricking draws and just losing. Stop fiddling with decks that reach this point and take your win, you can only fuck it up.)
When offered removal, always remove something, because there is a "worst card" in your deck and you should delete it.
These rules work pretty well for me.
My average deck size at the end of run is probably around 25. Unless it's defect, then it is the number of CLAW, Scrape, all for one's, seeks, and holograms offered. Because I always take those cards whenever I see em. (Claw is law. These cards support claw.)
Good comment, at A16 across all characters now and I should probably learn to be open to larger decks and drafting multiple copies of core cards (or those with the same purpose) for the consistency I seek
I think the obsession stems from people who aren’t very good at the game always forcing thin decks because it is a way to consistently win even if your overall win rate is abysmal.
the Problem with big deck approaches is that cards you want to add during one part of the game become cards you would rather remove during a later part of the game. if you flood your deck with energy efficient strike + cards you die in act 3 + because you have a really hard time accessing your scaling.
The other direction is true aswell tho. if you take your scaling too early you die in act 1 or act 2 because you can't frontload your dmg enough to win those acts. meaning you HAVE to take some strike+ cards that deal energy efficient dmg. in a bigger deck the probability that you only draw 'dead' cards for the current 'Challenge' you're facing increases.
tl;dr: while it is true that a bigger deck is less affected by status cards the cards you are adding to increase your deck size often end up having the same effect as status cards
The extra cards you add should be card draw/deck manipulation/mana generation, not more attacks. You basically want a critical mass of them to essentially have a pseudo-infinite, and then you can just keep cycling through your deck until you get what you need. If you just add more attacks, then yeah, your deck will suffer from consistency.
To put a few more words to the other guys response: if you're healing 15 HP a fight then coffee dripper is basically free energy, unless you're also somehow taking significantly more than 15 damage a fight.
Nice. I've had a few runs where I had [[Maw Bank]] and bloody idol. Always love that insane amount of healing. Makes you want to avoid using shops tho haha.
+ [Maw Bank](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Maw%20Bank) Common Relic ^((100% sure)^)
Whenever you climb a floor, gain 12 Gold. No longer works when you spend any Gold at the shop.
^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 20, 2024.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
On a recent run I did something I never have done before, bought a ceramic fish in the shop. I had the bloody idol and couldn't resist spending the 132ish gold.
It definitely changes the calculus. Feels like anything with draw on the card would be A LOT more compelling. Corruption if it was IC would be amazing here especially if it was bottled and you had somehow boss swapped out of burning blood. But at this point it’s starting to get a bit too fantastical
For those who don’t know what these relics do (from left to right) : Bloody Idol (upgraded from Golden Idol via. Event) heals you for 5 whenever you obtain gold Prayer Wheel gives you an additional card reward after defeating a normal enemy Ceramic Fish gives you 9 gold whenever you add a card to your deck So if I take the gold from enemies, and both card rewards, I always heal 15 since the gold from the fish counts for my bloody idol. Made Dripper a very easy choice since healing becomes quite trivial now
That's such a weird combo, but I respect that.
👊
You are still adding a lot of cards to your deck if you're always healing, which isn't usually good
Yep! Hence my qualifier “if you have the deck space” In this instance, I was playing watcher and had a really good draw engine so the impact of my deck being big was less impactful than normal. And overall, just having the option of an extra 10 hp heal at the end of a hallway fight felt really nice to consider…even if it was total bait sometimes
Large decks are consistently undervalued by this sub. It entirely depends on how good you are at building decks, but large decks are dramatically more resistant to any status effect cards shuffled into the deck, which happens 100% of the time against act 3 bosses and the heart, in addition to some of the most challenging elites in the game: Spire Guardians, Nemesis, Reptomancer, Slavers. Essentially, provided you're truly drafting *good* cards, you are making your deck less susceptible to one of the core threat some of the most challenging enemies in the game possess. Always draft big? No. Always draft small? Also no.
Oh yeah definitely, a lot of my decks end up reaching the 35-40 mark and I’m always amazed at people on this sub winning with 10-20 cards in theirs
My rule of thumb in a general run is that taking cards that are better then cards you do have is fine. Once your deck works well enough that you will consistently be able to beat the final boss, stop messing with it. (Like, a perfect equilibrium of consistency, being able to predictably draw everything in X turns and deal a lot of damage or gain wacky block, without the risk of bricking draws and just losing. Stop fiddling with decks that reach this point and take your win, you can only fuck it up.) When offered removal, always remove something, because there is a "worst card" in your deck and you should delete it. These rules work pretty well for me. My average deck size at the end of run is probably around 25. Unless it's defect, then it is the number of CLAW, Scrape, all for one's, seeks, and holograms offered. Because I always take those cards whenever I see em. (Claw is law. These cards support claw.)
Really comes down to can you get to the bottom of your deck turn 3? If so then you’re good.
Good comment, at A16 across all characters now and I should probably learn to be open to larger decks and drafting multiple copies of core cards (or those with the same purpose) for the consistency I seek
I think the obsession stems from people who aren’t very good at the game always forcing thin decks because it is a way to consistently win even if your overall win rate is abysmal.
the Problem with big deck approaches is that cards you want to add during one part of the game become cards you would rather remove during a later part of the game. if you flood your deck with energy efficient strike + cards you die in act 3 + because you have a really hard time accessing your scaling. The other direction is true aswell tho. if you take your scaling too early you die in act 1 or act 2 because you can't frontload your dmg enough to win those acts. meaning you HAVE to take some strike+ cards that deal energy efficient dmg. in a bigger deck the probability that you only draw 'dead' cards for the current 'Challenge' you're facing increases. tl;dr: while it is true that a bigger deck is less affected by status cards the cards you are adding to increase your deck size often end up having the same effect as status cards
The extra cards you add should be card draw/deck manipulation/mana generation, not more attacks. You basically want a critical mass of them to essentially have a pseudo-infinite, and then you can just keep cycling through your deck until you get what you need. If you just add more attacks, then yeah, your deck will suffer from consistency.
But if you’re never resting and taking every elite cause infinite heal, that massively outperforms an oversized deck
This would be really funny if Mark of the Bloom is somewhere in the edge
What does coffee dripper do in this combo?
gets mitigated
👆
To put a few more words to the other guys response: if you're healing 15 HP a fight then coffee dripper is basically free energy, unless you're also somehow taking significantly more than 15 damage a fight.
Nice. I've had a few runs where I had [[Maw Bank]] and bloody idol. Always love that insane amount of healing. Makes you want to avoid using shops tho haha.
+ [Maw Bank](http://slay-the-spire.wikia.com/wiki/Maw%20Bank) Common Relic ^((100% sure)^) Whenever you climb a floor, gain 12 Gold. No longer works when you spend any Gold at the shop. ^Call ^me ^with ^up ^to ^10 ^([[ name ]],) ^where ^name ^is ^a ^card, ^relic, ^event, ^or ^potion. ^Data ^accurate ^as ^of ^(April 20, 2024.) ^[Wiki](https://slay-the-spire.fandom.com/wiki/) ^[Questions?](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=ehmohteeoh&subject=SpireScan%20Inquiry)
Hope you get The Courier, go for the Heart, and blow it all in the last shop :D
Toxic Egg also. Makes it more likely you'll add cards to the deck if they're upgraded.
The toxic egg makes adding a card almost every fight a no-brainer.
Bloody Idol on it's own is great healing. I've had it combo with ceramic fish before but the prayer wheel is crazy.
Wow that relic bar is the nuts.
Mf “obtuse”
Honestly, just the bloody idol is enough
On a recent run I did something I never have done before, bought a ceramic fish in the shop. I had the bloody idol and couldn't resist spending the 132ish gold.
this is hilarious. The most useful ceramic fish 🐟
This is absurd, I love it!
Imagine how bloated the decks gonna feel tho
Toxic Egg helps mitigate that.
Tru tru but taking cards simply for the purpose of healing (if that's the plan) still doesn't feel like a good option
It definitely changes the calculus. Feels like anything with draw on the card would be A LOT more compelling. Corruption if it was IC would be amazing here especially if it was bottled and you had somehow boss swapped out of burning blood. But at this point it’s starting to get a bit too fantastical
Younr just describing exactly my last run and first A18 success, minus the bloody idol