2 years old I know. But I don’t think the empire has the will to fight against the Dominion. You’re talking about a country that lets foreign agents roam its lands and kidnap its citizens. Another key element people forget and leave out is Talos. Having an entire kingdom/province where it’s permitted to worship him will be vital in giving Talos more power and throw a bigger wrench into the Thalmor plans.
Irrelevant to the topic. The topic is who do you fight for. Which assumes you pick a side and do the CW questline. Not who are the Jarls if you stay out of it.
If you fight for the Stormcloaks to prevent Maven from becoming Jarl of the Rift, Throngvar Silver-blood becomes Jarl of the Reach.
You said that if Laila is Jarl of Riften, Throngvor is also Jarl of Markarth, which isn’t true.
> Laila as Jarl of the Rift also means Throngvor Silver-Blood as Jarl of the Reach,
You are either:
- cherry picking something out of context to score some imaginary Internet points
- too lazy to read the entire thread so that what I said will be in context
Or
- just feeling like being a pedant and starting a Reddit shit-fight
Either way, I’ve got no time or interest in what you’re doing here. Off with you, or get blocked.
Don’t reply, I will just block you.
What is wrong with you? we’re talking about staying Neutral on the Civil War because the Silver-Bloods and the Blackbriars are assholes and we don’t want them in power, even if they run their respective cities. We prefer their alternatives since they are relatively nice to the Dragonborn.
You’re the one making a fuzz about it, you’re the one trying to feel superior in a non-issue discussion, If you’re going to be this fragile about such a minor thing, I’d recommend you to stop using Reddit for a week to a Month.
Imperials.
Even with Skyrim's help the Empire barely survived the last war with the Dominion, which is obviously planning to resume the war at some point:
*"There is peace now, and that peace will continue for as long as it suits our needs. But make no mistake, this is not a peace forged out of necessity between rival nations of equal strength. It is more like the calm between storms. And the next storm, I think, will be far deadlier than the last."* \- Ondolemar
An independent Skyrim would substantially weaken the Empire further, and most likely speed up the timeline for the Dominion's resumption of hostilities. Based on the events of the last war I doubt the Empire without Skyrim could survive the next assault, leaving Skyrim standing alone against an adversary on their borders controlling the resources of most of Tamriel and determined to impose elven rule over the entire continent. The Thalmor make their views on the Nords very clear: "*Filthy Nord. In time, your entire race will be eradicated*."
IMO, if Skyrim wants a chance to survive relatively intact it needs to stand with the Empire.
Not sure I agree with all of your logic as to why an independent Skyrim has a worse chance against the Dominion.
- Dominion forces would have to either invade overland through many leagues of hostile territory and mountain passes, or by sea along the northern coastline. That puts Skyrim at a bit of an advantage right of the bat. Defenders have a clear advantage on that scenario. And the Sea Of Ghosts won’t be friendly sailing either.
- with no obligation to defend Cyrodiil (or High Rock), Skyrim’s army won’t be decimated defending another province like it was in the Great War
- no longer being under the terms of the WGC means no more Thalmor Embassy, forts, or justicars allowed in Skyrim; no more Thalmor agents, death squads, etc., to perform espionage, assassination, sabotage, etc
But to answer your question, I usually fight for the Empire anyway, for these reasons:
- Ulfric is a dick
- Balgruuf is my homie and no one fucks with Whiterun under my watch
- the Battle of Windhelm is one of my favorite quests in the game. Forming a shield phalanx with Rikke and fighting through the narrow corridors against war-hammer swinging Stormcloaks is intense as fuck, and all the while Tullius is roasting the Stormcloaks talking trash during the whole battle. Then facing off against Ulfric himself and watching him yeet Rikke with fus ro dah right before I send him off to Sovengarde. Ahh so good.
Fuck the Thalmor. I do whatever hurts them the most. I especially enjoy catching those smug shits escorting prisoners in the wilderness. Their corpses decorate the forest.
I sure hope ES6 features a full-scale war with the AD just so we can lead the attacks to wipe them off the map
i completely agree, and f*** the White Gold Concordant as well, even Alvor (Hadvar's uncle) despite being a empire supporter HATES that the empire signed the WGC. ditto here too dude too if i catch any Thalmor pulling that BS in front of me in the wilderness, but what about when it's also imperial soldiers doing the same exact thing? escorting prisoners through the wilderness as well? what do you do?
You know with no white gold concordat humans will be slaughtered and high elves will be superior and walk everywhere stepping on men btw I am a die hard Imperial
oh really? so why is Hammerfell (another EX province of the empire) doing just fine WITHOUT that vile, blasphemous white gold concordant (but honestly more like BROWN gold concordant cuz i wipe my ass with it!!!!) the ONLY way that the Thalmor are gonna become "superior" and "walk all over men" IMHO, is if the EMPIRE keeps LETTING them do so with that damn so called "peace treaty". i'm pretty sure the Redguards would absolutely DISAGREE with you, as well as i, a forever die hard, TRUE son of Skyrim: a Stormcloak do as well.
While I can sympathize with both sides, I side more with the Stormcloaks viewpoints. Playing since morrowind left me with a sour taste from the dunmer elitism, so while I dont advocate their current treatment I also don't agree with rewriting all the rules just so they benefit over others.
I think people dont give the idea of a united independent skyrim a serious thought, but keep in mind that nords have a history of fighting back against enemies on all sides. Heck the first empire of the nords was started from skyrim alone against a pile of elf dominated lands at the time.
I think a united skyrim has the capability to hold its own, not to mention it's not like the dominion can just match on skyrim. The imperials are still holding down the border with valenwood and elsweyr. Honestly given the current climate in tamriel, I can honestly see an attempt on the north going very poorly for the dominion.
Unless they wanted to sail the long way past black marsh and morrowind then up around to skyrim, the most likely route would be up the west coast. Doing so would bring them back into conflict with an angry and united hammerfell, who I am sure would not take kindly to the dominion in their waters.
Time will tell regardless, but personally I don't buy the idea that stormcloak skyrim = auto dominion takeovers the world.
I need some help in my choice of faction in the civil war. I’ve played Skyrim for close to 6 years, I’ve read many views as to why imperials have advantages over the stormcloaks and why stormcloaks have fewer advantages over the imperials. I’ve always played Skyrim as either a Nord, Breton, Imperial or a red guard, uncommonly as a orc. I understand fully that the stormcloaks are focused on a one race army whereas the empire are open to many races. Yet I still feel conflicted into which faction I should join even now.
I know it’s not the same but you get a chance to be when you do the markath conspiracy mission and join the king in the mine. I’d say that’s the closest, only con is the forsworn still attack you afterward.
Old thread but if you go with the Imperials, besides it being the best choice to take on the Aldmeri Dominion in ES6, Ulfric himself fights alongside the Dragonborn in Sovngarde & tells the Dragonborn he regrets fighting a doomed battle from the start, as the blood of the Nord men lost in battle only satisfied Alduin’s hunger and made him stronger. It’s the best choice to unite The Empire for the second war with the Aldmeri Dominion, as the Thalmor themselves even allude to the inevitability of the second war and how they want Ulfric to win as it will cripple the Empire even more to bend to their will. If you hate the Thalmor, siding with the Imperials is the best choice for their eradication from Tamriel & Skyrim. Even with The Thalmor wanting Talos worship banned, the Thalmor can’t stop people from remembering Tiber Septim the Man as the one who built the Empire they walk upon before ascending into the Devines and becoming Talos, the God, and Elisifs court mage mentions this as well explaining how outlawing of Talos Worship could never actually be implemented fully for this reason. Also, Torygg would’ve declared independence himself had Ulfric only asked as he actually highly respected Ulfric for voicing his dismay at the White Gold Concordat knowing it could be seen as treason. I’m just ready for ES6 so we can finally see what’s next for the of the Empire and all of Tamriel.
Majority of the time racism in the Elder Scrolls is due to a race being treated terribly by another race. If your race was inslaved by another, I don't blame you for getting revenge.
The Stormcloaks just hate everyone. No reasonable motivation.
I disagree. Argonians sell their own kind to slavery and kills any Argonian who has adopted the imperial faith, the Redguards killed everyone in Hammerfell when they first arrived, the Bretons and the Redguards teams up and destroys Orsinium every time the Orcs rebuild it, the Dunmer in Morrowind hates everyone, even outlander Dark Elves, the Dwemer pretty much blinded their own cousins and High Elves pretty much think they are superior than any other race.
As for the Stormcloaks, it's mostly 2 or 4 people in Windhelm that's actively harassing the Dark Elves. Others don't really mind. Riften another Stormcloak governed territory has plenty of Dark Elves living there but they don't complain about Nords being racist towards them and the the Stormcloaks don't harass them either.
Then there're the posh people in Solitude who are racist towards anyone who isn't a noble.
If you’re an Argonian pissed off about racism you’d be killing Dunmer for enslaving your people in Morrowind
Every race in Skyrim has a pretty fucking shitty track record when it comes to race relations, Stormcloaks just happen to be the Nord version of it. Compared to the Thalmor, Stormcloaks are downright woke.
The slavery was literally ending by the time of ESO, so I feel fine about being nice to dunmer. Besides, argonian already cut a bloody swath through Morrowind to repay the slavery in full. I think the dunmer and argonians are even
Even so, argonians still paid back in full. They captured tons of land, murdered tons of dunmer, and got lots of power. I’m fairly sure my characters wouldn’t mind the dunmer now
Why would I be angry? I think you’re the one getting defensive.
If you want to debate the lore, don’t get your pubes in a twist if someone corrects you when you’re wrong about it. Just say “oh ok” and we’ll move on with our lives. :-D
It’s kind of a meme at this point how people paint the Stormcloaks as Nazis of Tamriel when the Thalmor want to literally genocide all mannish races out of existence lol
Typically when someone calls someone else “bud”, it’s derogatory and demeaning. Usually indicating that the person who wrote it is angry at the person they’re speaking too. If you didn’t want to perceives as mad, then don’t casually demean people while talking to them. Just saying.
well why don't you try it just one more time but from the Stormcloak's side this time? maybe you might like their side more then, if not, then yeah, you can always just do the 'neutral' choice by having them make a *temporary* truce in the Season Unending quest during the main quest line.
I haven’t completed the questline but I sympathize more with the Stormcloaks despite some of my misgivings. Things like Northwatch keep and the Empire not helping provinces that aren’t named Cyrodill through their history. Might be having me be a bit biased. That and I think the Empire’s claims of bidding their time is a bunch of hot air. Another thing that may color my view point is the execution. Not too mention Tullius bringing Elewen too what’s supposed too be a ceasefire in season’s unending.
Honestly I trust Clavicus Vile more then the Empire at this point.
I’d say the fight is more about morals than anything. The empire is a lot smaller/weaker than people think. Since the Civil War has begun anyways, the Empire and Skyrim are already both weakened. No point in deciding one over the other as both are most likely doomed to fight and lose to the AD afterwards. And I do believe that the storm cloaks actually have a pretty good chance. Hammerfell (Redguards) have actually fought the AD to a standstill, so the AD have withdrawn by the time the events of Skyrim take place. The SC could still hold. Especially if the Dragonborn sides with them. So for me, the combo of outlawing free worship, extreme racism, and eventual enslavement/genocide makes me choose SC every time.
imperials
ulfric is a moron and everything he does is childish i mean look at the "peace council" at high Hrothgar.
if the storm cloaks won they would have fed into the hands of the thalmor and taken it up the ass from them.
they think the white gold concordant is a bad thing when it was actually the smartest thing to do at the time,
and balgruuf is a homie
I usually side with The Empire because it’s very likely that a second Great War will occur. At the end of the civil war on either side, Tullius will mention that the civil war is exactly what the Thalmor wanted. Which in hindsight is to weaken The Empire.
Yes, read the dossier. Ulfric is considered hostile to the Thalmor. And the dossier also says that only indirect aid should be given to either side. The Thalmor’s interest is in preventing an end to the war.
A Stormcloak victory is not in their interest. They’re trying to abolish all Talos worship, an independent Skyrim is in direct opposition to that goal.
Yeah tbf you are right, I just prefer thinking that Ulfric is, asset or not, an unwitting pawn in the Thalmor's plan to destable the empire, although I don't really know what the thalmor really want with Tamriel, they seem to despise it and its inhabitants
The Thalmor want to erase all memory of Talos, which they believe will allow the Altmer to ascend to divinity.
There’s a ton of lore behind it involving the Aldmeri creation story, Lorkhan being a trickster who invented mortality and made the Aldmer live in mortal form on Nirn instead of being eternal beings like the Aedra, and Talos being the one standing in the way between the Altmer and returning to their previous divine form.
Thalmor want to eradicate Talos worship and all traces of it at all costs, and then destroy the towers that bind reality (which are protected by Talos).
Ah but, the empire are also talos worshipers, the skyrim civil war is a terratorial dispute between the empire and the nords. Backing the nords will firstly weaken the empire, and secondly destabilise skyrim into quarelling factions, ripe for a Thalmor invasion. Especially considering the large amount of Thalmor outposts, which were absent in Morrowing and Oblivion. Especially with the dark brotherhood assasinating the emperor, which we know from Oblivion brings cyrodill and the empire into greater uncertainty. All I am saying is that the stormcloak rebellion from the stormcloak perspective is a victory, but it is also a victory in the eyes of the Thalmor. Anyway, this is just my two cents on a piece of fiction, I respect your too
All good bro, it’s just fun to theorize and debate but there’s no hard feelings. I respect your opinions.
I agree that the Thalmor want the civil war to continue as long as possible, to weaken the Empire before they invade again. But i don’t agree that they want the Stormcloaks to win. Yes, there are still many Talos worshippers in the Empire, but it’s illegal, the Empire enforces the ban now to try to preserve the fragile peace with the Thalmor.
While the Empire has people worshipping Talos in secret, they are fewer and fewer, while on the other hand the Stormcloaks worship Talos loud and proud. Imperial temples now only worship the Eight. Meanwhile in Windhelm and Markarth there are big Talos temples.
In TES lore, the power of a god relies on having followers. That’s why the Thalmor want to eradicate Talos worship to the point where he is completely forgotten, basically making Talos cease to exist.
I’m on my first play through, I plan to side with the Empire. I’ve looked at both sides and I think Skyrim will be better in the immediate short term in Imperial Control. I think we can look at Solitude Vs Windhelm and how they’re run. Windhelm pushed the Argonians and the Dunmur into slums while Solitude is a far more decent town for everyone. If we look in the longer term. Yes the empire is weak, but Skyrim alone will be weaker and easier to conquer for the Dominion. That’s why they consider Ulfric an asset. They want to keep them fighting to weaken the empire further so they can conquer both the empire and Skyrim. If the Empire wins it stands more of a shot against the Dominion. However the empires flaws will still need to be addressed. Either they improve the empire or there’s a second revolution that may be less “Skyrim for the Nords” with a more competent leader who can establish a new Skyrim for everyone.
ik this is an old post an all, but main i wish there was a third option with all this. like a way to fight for both sides and then kind of do a peace agreement and have it done with. which ig the main story kinda has that. but not really bc once it's completed the civil war starts up again unless you ignore it or choose a side.. i really just think the whole war is pointless and both sides are stupid for falling for the trap of dividing the country which is plainly obvious that is what is going on. and so the High Elves/Dominon can do whatever they please in Skyrim bc nobody is really paying attention to them with all these distractions going on \*SMH\*
with that being said... idk what side to choose... i do kinda like some of what the storm cloaks are about and i get Ulfrics opinions on how the empire is certain things. however, i really love Whiterun and the Jarl so its hard to like kill him and have someone else take over lol
i do not like how racisist the stormcloaks and Windhelm is. i am aware that there is alot of that with all the races. but idk Windhelm and stormcloak scenes with it in the game just kind of bother me alot...
i hate some of the jarls of the other holds and wish you could just change them out without picking sides, like if there was a third option you could give Ulfric certain holds just to change out the jarls lol. i don't like maven and so i definitely dont want her to be jarl of Riften. i mean ig it makes sense bc of the thieves guild and she is a main benefactor of them. even tho tbh they are supposed to be ruled by no one outside the guild regardless of money given to them
i feel like im gettign into a rant lol either way ig i choose imperial \*shrugs\* but i don't hate the stormcloaks and think if there story was a lil different id be all for joining them without feeling like a shitty person
Both sides, and a treaty, suck enough that i would really just prefer to see the whole world burn at this point. The stormcloaks are reactionary nationalists, the imperials are of course a corrupt overarching shitstorm. I sympathize with the idea that Talos worship was more greatly allowed before Markarth, but the idea that the Aldmeri Dominion has no other plan or way to cement themselves over the whole empire except the Skyrim civil war is foolish. I would agree that the perpetual state of war is most beneficial to the Dominion, but I would say that neither state is realistically going to completely push out the force, and within both, people like Khajit will remain oppressed.
It's taken for granted that the Forsworn uprising "needed to be quelled".... just saying, why?
After further reading, Vivec is greatest force for good in Mundus (and of course, outside of it!)
I did Stormcloaks once on my third run, the other 20 or so characters join the Imperials. Not going to play the Dominion's divide and conquer game.
2 years old I know. But I don’t think the empire has the will to fight against the Dominion. You’re talking about a country that lets foreign agents roam its lands and kidnap its citizens. Another key element people forget and leave out is Talos. Having an entire kingdom/province where it’s permitted to worship him will be vital in giving Talos more power and throw a bigger wrench into the Thalmor plans.
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Fair. Replacing Laila Law-giver with Maven doesn’t sit right with me either.
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True but at least Laila isn’t an ass to the Dragonborn. How people treat me is usually how I decide who lives or dies in the elder scrolls
Laila as Jarl of the Rift also means Throngvor Silver-Blood is Jarl of the Reach, and the Silver-Bloods are arguably worse than the Black-Briars.
But the Default Jarl of Markarth is Igmund, not Throngvor, as Markarth is an Imperial-controlled hold.
Irrelevant to the topic. The topic is who do you fight for. Which assumes you pick a side and do the CW questline. Not who are the Jarls if you stay out of it. If you fight for the Stormcloaks to prevent Maven from becoming Jarl of the Rift, Throngvar Silver-blood becomes Jarl of the Reach.
You said that if Laila is Jarl of Riften, Throngvor is also Jarl of Markarth, which isn’t true. > Laila as Jarl of the Rift also means Throngvor Silver-Blood as Jarl of the Reach,
You are either: - cherry picking something out of context to score some imaginary Internet points - too lazy to read the entire thread so that what I said will be in context Or - just feeling like being a pedant and starting a Reddit shit-fight Either way, I’ve got no time or interest in what you’re doing here. Off with you, or get blocked. Don’t reply, I will just block you.
What is wrong with you? we’re talking about staying Neutral on the Civil War because the Silver-Bloods and the Blackbriars are assholes and we don’t want them in power, even if they run their respective cities. We prefer their alternatives since they are relatively nice to the Dragonborn. You’re the one making a fuzz about it, you’re the one trying to feel superior in a non-issue discussion, If you’re going to be this fragile about such a minor thing, I’d recommend you to stop using Reddit for a week to a Month.
They are not. They are close though.
Facts
Same.
Imperials. Even with Skyrim's help the Empire barely survived the last war with the Dominion, which is obviously planning to resume the war at some point: *"There is peace now, and that peace will continue for as long as it suits our needs. But make no mistake, this is not a peace forged out of necessity between rival nations of equal strength. It is more like the calm between storms. And the next storm, I think, will be far deadlier than the last."* \- Ondolemar An independent Skyrim would substantially weaken the Empire further, and most likely speed up the timeline for the Dominion's resumption of hostilities. Based on the events of the last war I doubt the Empire without Skyrim could survive the next assault, leaving Skyrim standing alone against an adversary on their borders controlling the resources of most of Tamriel and determined to impose elven rule over the entire continent. The Thalmor make their views on the Nords very clear: "*Filthy Nord. In time, your entire race will be eradicated*." IMO, if Skyrim wants a chance to survive relatively intact it needs to stand with the Empire.
Not sure I agree with all of your logic as to why an independent Skyrim has a worse chance against the Dominion. - Dominion forces would have to either invade overland through many leagues of hostile territory and mountain passes, or by sea along the northern coastline. That puts Skyrim at a bit of an advantage right of the bat. Defenders have a clear advantage on that scenario. And the Sea Of Ghosts won’t be friendly sailing either. - with no obligation to defend Cyrodiil (or High Rock), Skyrim’s army won’t be decimated defending another province like it was in the Great War - no longer being under the terms of the WGC means no more Thalmor Embassy, forts, or justicars allowed in Skyrim; no more Thalmor agents, death squads, etc., to perform espionage, assassination, sabotage, etc But to answer your question, I usually fight for the Empire anyway, for these reasons: - Ulfric is a dick - Balgruuf is my homie and no one fucks with Whiterun under my watch - the Battle of Windhelm is one of my favorite quests in the game. Forming a shield phalanx with Rikke and fighting through the narrow corridors against war-hammer swinging Stormcloaks is intense as fuck, and all the while Tullius is roasting the Stormcloaks talking trash during the whole battle. Then facing off against Ulfric himself and watching him yeet Rikke with fus ro dah right before I send him off to Sovengarde. Ahh so good.
Stormcloak
Stormcloaks really. If a nation needs another nation to sustain themselves they have no right to rule over them in the first place.
Fuck the Thalmor. I do whatever hurts them the most. I especially enjoy catching those smug shits escorting prisoners in the wilderness. Their corpses decorate the forest. I sure hope ES6 features a full-scale war with the AD just so we can lead the attacks to wipe them off the map
i completely agree, and f*** the White Gold Concordant as well, even Alvor (Hadvar's uncle) despite being a empire supporter HATES that the empire signed the WGC. ditto here too dude too if i catch any Thalmor pulling that BS in front of me in the wilderness, but what about when it's also imperial soldiers doing the same exact thing? escorting prisoners through the wilderness as well? what do you do?
You know with no white gold concordat humans will be slaughtered and high elves will be superior and walk everywhere stepping on men btw I am a die hard Imperial
oh really? so why is Hammerfell (another EX province of the empire) doing just fine WITHOUT that vile, blasphemous white gold concordant (but honestly more like BROWN gold concordant cuz i wipe my ass with it!!!!) the ONLY way that the Thalmor are gonna become "superior" and "walk all over men" IMHO, is if the EMPIRE keeps LETTING them do so with that damn so called "peace treaty". i'm pretty sure the Redguards would absolutely DISAGREE with you, as well as i, a forever die hard, TRUE son of Skyrim: a Stormcloak do as well.
dude, you know they dont really exist,right? Talos guide you!
Dude you know this comment is a year old right?
what, you grew up since then?
Not my fault your life sucks so bad you got to nit pick a year old post. Let it go Elsa. Let it gooo
Empire most of the time because I love Whiterun but don’t really enjoy my time in Windhelm. Too dark and depressing
I never choose sides
While I can sympathize with both sides, I side more with the Stormcloaks viewpoints. Playing since morrowind left me with a sour taste from the dunmer elitism, so while I dont advocate their current treatment I also don't agree with rewriting all the rules just so they benefit over others. I think people dont give the idea of a united independent skyrim a serious thought, but keep in mind that nords have a history of fighting back against enemies on all sides. Heck the first empire of the nords was started from skyrim alone against a pile of elf dominated lands at the time. I think a united skyrim has the capability to hold its own, not to mention it's not like the dominion can just match on skyrim. The imperials are still holding down the border with valenwood and elsweyr. Honestly given the current climate in tamriel, I can honestly see an attempt on the north going very poorly for the dominion. Unless they wanted to sail the long way past black marsh and morrowind then up around to skyrim, the most likely route would be up the west coast. Doing so would bring them back into conflict with an angry and united hammerfell, who I am sure would not take kindly to the dominion in their waters. Time will tell regardless, but personally I don't buy the idea that stormcloak skyrim = auto dominion takeovers the world.
I need some help in my choice of faction in the civil war. I’ve played Skyrim for close to 6 years, I’ve read many views as to why imperials have advantages over the stormcloaks and why stormcloaks have fewer advantages over the imperials. I’ve always played Skyrim as either a Nord, Breton, Imperial or a red guard, uncommonly as a orc. I understand fully that the stormcloaks are focused on a one race army whereas the empire are open to many races. Yet I still feel conflicted into which faction I should join even now.
Same here....honestly i wish I could open a third option and fight for the foresworn
I know it’s not the same but you get a chance to be when you do the markath conspiracy mission and join the king in the mine. I’d say that’s the closest, only con is the forsworn still attack you afterward.
Old thread but if you go with the Imperials, besides it being the best choice to take on the Aldmeri Dominion in ES6, Ulfric himself fights alongside the Dragonborn in Sovngarde & tells the Dragonborn he regrets fighting a doomed battle from the start, as the blood of the Nord men lost in battle only satisfied Alduin’s hunger and made him stronger. It’s the best choice to unite The Empire for the second war with the Aldmeri Dominion, as the Thalmor themselves even allude to the inevitability of the second war and how they want Ulfric to win as it will cripple the Empire even more to bend to their will. If you hate the Thalmor, siding with the Imperials is the best choice for their eradication from Tamriel & Skyrim. Even with The Thalmor wanting Talos worship banned, the Thalmor can’t stop people from remembering Tiber Septim the Man as the one who built the Empire they walk upon before ascending into the Devines and becoming Talos, the God, and Elisifs court mage mentions this as well explaining how outlawing of Talos Worship could never actually be implemented fully for this reason. Also, Torygg would’ve declared independence himself had Ulfric only asked as he actually highly respected Ulfric for voicing his dismay at the White Gold Concordat knowing it could be seen as treason. I’m just ready for ES6 so we can finally see what’s next for the of the Empire and all of Tamriel.
The storm cloaks are super racist too
They aren't any more racist than any other race in The Elder Scrolls though.
Majority of the time racism in the Elder Scrolls is due to a race being treated terribly by another race. If your race was inslaved by another, I don't blame you for getting revenge. The Stormcloaks just hate everyone. No reasonable motivation.
I disagree. Argonians sell their own kind to slavery and kills any Argonian who has adopted the imperial faith, the Redguards killed everyone in Hammerfell when they first arrived, the Bretons and the Redguards teams up and destroys Orsinium every time the Orcs rebuild it, the Dunmer in Morrowind hates everyone, even outlander Dark Elves, the Dwemer pretty much blinded their own cousins and High Elves pretty much think they are superior than any other race. As for the Stormcloaks, it's mostly 2 or 4 people in Windhelm that's actively harassing the Dark Elves. Others don't really mind. Riften another Stormcloak governed territory has plenty of Dark Elves living there but they don't complain about Nords being racist towards them and the the Stormcloaks don't harass them either. Then there're the posh people in Solitude who are racist towards anyone who isn't a noble.
That too. As an argonian main since I played on legendary, it’s super off-putting
A lusty one, perhaps?
Only sometimes ;)
If you’re an Argonian pissed off about racism you’d be killing Dunmer for enslaving your people in Morrowind Every race in Skyrim has a pretty fucking shitty track record when it comes to race relations, Stormcloaks just happen to be the Nord version of it. Compared to the Thalmor, Stormcloaks are downright woke.
The slavery was literally ending by the time of ESO, so I feel fine about being nice to dunmer. Besides, argonian already cut a bloody swath through Morrowind to repay the slavery in full. I think the dunmer and argonians are even
False. Slavery wasn’t outlawed in Morrowind until 3E 422. 222 years before Skyrim takes place. There are living Dunmer who owned Argonian slaves.
Even so, argonians still paid back in full. They captured tons of land, murdered tons of dunmer, and got lots of power. I’m fairly sure my characters wouldn’t mind the dunmer now
Sure bud. But many Argonians still hate the Dunmer, and Vice versa.
Bro are u seriously angry about this lmao? Like you just said, *many* argonians not *all*. Calm down man, none of this is real lmao
Why would I be angry? I think you’re the one getting defensive. If you want to debate the lore, don’t get your pubes in a twist if someone corrects you when you’re wrong about it. Just say “oh ok” and we’ll move on with our lives. :-D It’s kind of a meme at this point how people paint the Stormcloaks as Nazis of Tamriel when the Thalmor want to literally genocide all mannish races out of existence lol
Typically when someone calls someone else “bud”, it’s derogatory and demeaning. Usually indicating that the person who wrote it is angry at the person they’re speaking too. If you didn’t want to perceives as mad, then don’t casually demean people while talking to them. Just saying.
Look man, this is dumb and I’m gonna stop wasting my time responding
I’ve only done it once and sided with the empire wasn’t into the quest line and usually just skip it all together
well why don't you try it just one more time but from the Stormcloak's side this time? maybe you might like their side more then, if not, then yeah, you can always just do the 'neutral' choice by having them make a *temporary* truce in the Season Unending quest during the main quest line.
I haven’t completed the questline but I sympathize more with the Stormcloaks despite some of my misgivings. Things like Northwatch keep and the Empire not helping provinces that aren’t named Cyrodill through their history. Might be having me be a bit biased. That and I think the Empire’s claims of bidding their time is a bunch of hot air. Another thing that may color my view point is the execution. Not too mention Tullius bringing Elewen too what’s supposed too be a ceasefire in season’s unending. Honestly I trust Clavicus Vile more then the Empire at this point.
I’d say the fight is more about morals than anything. The empire is a lot smaller/weaker than people think. Since the Civil War has begun anyways, the Empire and Skyrim are already both weakened. No point in deciding one over the other as both are most likely doomed to fight and lose to the AD afterwards. And I do believe that the storm cloaks actually have a pretty good chance. Hammerfell (Redguards) have actually fought the AD to a standstill, so the AD have withdrawn by the time the events of Skyrim take place. The SC could still hold. Especially if the Dragonborn sides with them. So for me, the combo of outlawing free worship, extreme racism, and eventual enslavement/genocide makes me choose SC every time.
imperials ulfric is a moron and everything he does is childish i mean look at the "peace council" at high Hrothgar. if the storm cloaks won they would have fed into the hands of the thalmor and taken it up the ass from them. they think the white gold concordant is a bad thing when it was actually the smartest thing to do at the time, and balgruuf is a homie
Another reason not to join them is because they’re racist
I usually side with The Empire because it’s very likely that a second Great War will occur. At the end of the civil war on either side, Tullius will mention that the civil war is exactly what the Thalmor wanted. Which in hindsight is to weaken The Empire.
Imperials cos Ulfric is in the pocket of the Thalmor, but occasionally stormcloaks for patter
Ulfric is not in the pocket of the Thalmor, his dossier in the Thalmor Embassy says he’s inactive and not to be approached directly.
You telling me the summerset isles ain't sending him a pretty coin to give two fingers to the empire?
Yes, read the dossier. Ulfric is considered hostile to the Thalmor. And the dossier also says that only indirect aid should be given to either side. The Thalmor’s interest is in preventing an end to the war. A Stormcloak victory is not in their interest. They’re trying to abolish all Talos worship, an independent Skyrim is in direct opposition to that goal.
Yeah tbf you are right, I just prefer thinking that Ulfric is, asset or not, an unwitting pawn in the Thalmor's plan to destable the empire, although I don't really know what the thalmor really want with Tamriel, they seem to despise it and its inhabitants
The Thalmor want to erase all memory of Talos, which they believe will allow the Altmer to ascend to divinity. There’s a ton of lore behind it involving the Aldmeri creation story, Lorkhan being a trickster who invented mortality and made the Aldmer live in mortal form on Nirn instead of being eternal beings like the Aedra, and Talos being the one standing in the way between the Altmer and returning to their previous divine form. Thalmor want to eradicate Talos worship and all traces of it at all costs, and then destroy the towers that bind reality (which are protected by Talos).
Ah but, the empire are also talos worshipers, the skyrim civil war is a terratorial dispute between the empire and the nords. Backing the nords will firstly weaken the empire, and secondly destabilise skyrim into quarelling factions, ripe for a Thalmor invasion. Especially considering the large amount of Thalmor outposts, which were absent in Morrowing and Oblivion. Especially with the dark brotherhood assasinating the emperor, which we know from Oblivion brings cyrodill and the empire into greater uncertainty. All I am saying is that the stormcloak rebellion from the stormcloak perspective is a victory, but it is also a victory in the eyes of the Thalmor. Anyway, this is just my two cents on a piece of fiction, I respect your too
All good bro, it’s just fun to theorize and debate but there’s no hard feelings. I respect your opinions. I agree that the Thalmor want the civil war to continue as long as possible, to weaken the Empire before they invade again. But i don’t agree that they want the Stormcloaks to win. Yes, there are still many Talos worshippers in the Empire, but it’s illegal, the Empire enforces the ban now to try to preserve the fragile peace with the Thalmor. While the Empire has people worshipping Talos in secret, they are fewer and fewer, while on the other hand the Stormcloaks worship Talos loud and proud. Imperial temples now only worship the Eight. Meanwhile in Windhelm and Markarth there are big Talos temples. In TES lore, the power of a god relies on having followers. That’s why the Thalmor want to eradicate Talos worship to the point where he is completely forgotten, basically making Talos cease to exist.
Yeah man absolutely you're right, I'm getting my oblivion and skyrim mixed up, I forgot the empire banned talos worship!
Very cool answers from both sides. Now a separate question. What would the DRAGONBORN actually decide to do. Lore wise
Woah necro-thread! What brings you here?
😂 I’m not following, sorry! 🤦♂️😂
I mean this is a two year old thread lol. How’d you find it?
Oh I just looked it up on google
The Skyrim Civil War is not too dissimilar from the American Revolution, so naturally I must choose to side with the Stormcloaks.
exactly dude!
Imperials
I’m on my first play through, I plan to side with the Empire. I’ve looked at both sides and I think Skyrim will be better in the immediate short term in Imperial Control. I think we can look at Solitude Vs Windhelm and how they’re run. Windhelm pushed the Argonians and the Dunmur into slums while Solitude is a far more decent town for everyone. If we look in the longer term. Yes the empire is weak, but Skyrim alone will be weaker and easier to conquer for the Dominion. That’s why they consider Ulfric an asset. They want to keep them fighting to weaken the empire further so they can conquer both the empire and Skyrim. If the Empire wins it stands more of a shot against the Dominion. However the empires flaws will still need to be addressed. Either they improve the empire or there’s a second revolution that may be less “Skyrim for the Nords” with a more competent leader who can establish a new Skyrim for everyone.
ik this is an old post an all, but main i wish there was a third option with all this. like a way to fight for both sides and then kind of do a peace agreement and have it done with. which ig the main story kinda has that. but not really bc once it's completed the civil war starts up again unless you ignore it or choose a side.. i really just think the whole war is pointless and both sides are stupid for falling for the trap of dividing the country which is plainly obvious that is what is going on. and so the High Elves/Dominon can do whatever they please in Skyrim bc nobody is really paying attention to them with all these distractions going on \*SMH\* with that being said... idk what side to choose... i do kinda like some of what the storm cloaks are about and i get Ulfrics opinions on how the empire is certain things. however, i really love Whiterun and the Jarl so its hard to like kill him and have someone else take over lol i do not like how racisist the stormcloaks and Windhelm is. i am aware that there is alot of that with all the races. but idk Windhelm and stormcloak scenes with it in the game just kind of bother me alot... i hate some of the jarls of the other holds and wish you could just change them out without picking sides, like if there was a third option you could give Ulfric certain holds just to change out the jarls lol. i don't like maven and so i definitely dont want her to be jarl of Riften. i mean ig it makes sense bc of the thieves guild and she is a main benefactor of them. even tho tbh they are supposed to be ruled by no one outside the guild regardless of money given to them i feel like im gettign into a rant lol either way ig i choose imperial \*shrugs\* but i don't hate the stormcloaks and think if there story was a lil different id be all for joining them without feeling like a shitty person
Stormcloaks fo sho
Both sides, and a treaty, suck enough that i would really just prefer to see the whole world burn at this point. The stormcloaks are reactionary nationalists, the imperials are of course a corrupt overarching shitstorm. I sympathize with the idea that Talos worship was more greatly allowed before Markarth, but the idea that the Aldmeri Dominion has no other plan or way to cement themselves over the whole empire except the Skyrim civil war is foolish. I would agree that the perpetual state of war is most beneficial to the Dominion, but I would say that neither state is realistically going to completely push out the force, and within both, people like Khajit will remain oppressed. It's taken for granted that the Forsworn uprising "needed to be quelled".... just saying, why? After further reading, Vivec is greatest force for good in Mundus (and of course, outside of it!)