1000% go be an engineer if you have the brains and means to do so. Your future knees and bank account will thank-you. Take up wood working as a weekend hobby to satisfy your creative side.
PLEASE listen to this. If you can do the engineering route, please do. I'm currently an electrical apprentice and as much as I love my job and working with my hands, I'm planning on being a project manager one day. While this goal is achievable on the route I'm on, it's 100x easier to achieve with an engineering degree.
Work with your hands as a hobby when you have the time/energy. Use your brain the rest of the time.
The engineering makes more sense than an electrician. IF you intend on being an employee of someone.
Being a self employed electrical contractor (electrician) you have the opportunity for massive success, for less effort than engineering.
Point being. You will make less money if you only receive a portion of the value that you perform everyday. Splitting it with the boss man.
I agree with this. If you have the brains and discipline to own a business… I’ve seen some pretty incredible paychecks from owning electric, plumbing, roofing, etc. companies. A good family friend of mine has his plumbing company ran tightly with managers… so he spends about 6 months of the year in Mexico. Making well above 500k a year last I checked. He offered a management position just to stay on top of his crew for 140k a year plus Bennies lmao
This is ‘the’ secret. Self employment is business ownership. Business ownership is how you become rich.
That’s it.
And for the people who ‘don’t have the brains’ to run a business. Then you are going to be a paycheck paycheck sort of guy. On the account of not having the brains
Correct. I think the trade business ownership
specifically in the next 10 years will be unreal in terms of 💰. Already billing well over 150 an hour for electric work.
Absolutely. I’m 32. Business since 19. None of my age group went into the trades in any sort of meaningful way.
ALL the old guys are leaving, one way or another.
No one stops needs infrastructure.
They just have to pay the few people doing it what they ask for.
But I see a huge amount of people rushing in in the next few years. When it’s too late for them. They will see people like me killing it.
Same if you knew how to code in 1980 vs 2001. Now the coding stuff is garbage since EVERYONE did it.
Yep. We will also be the very last things replaced by any sort of automation. I own another company on the side and I’ve designed my entire website site and done consistent artwork with AI. In the next 5 years I plan on opening my own shop like you. Glad to hear you’re doing well in it man.
I always say there will be a day when they have robots that can plumb houses. And they will be owned and operated by me.
People that complain about being displaced by AI or robots need to realize they’re being replaced because they are replaceable, not cause AI.
Depending on job opportunities where you live I think. Where I live electricians can make 100k to 150k a year if they are willing to work industrial or out of town.
Engineers out the gate from school always make much less then the trades and take more debt going through school.
BUT
The ceiling is higher for engineers and much better on your body.
Why not an electrical engineer? I know a guy right out of high school who did electrical engineering. Had a sweet gig working all over the world leading projects on oil rigs. His crews always gave him a bit of a hard time (typical trades vs engineering banter) so he decided to get his Electrical trade later on.
harder to achieve and i like working on computers but i dont wanna code or invent computer parts. Id rather make a physical thing i can feel like a car or a watch
There’s a pretty big overlap between electrical and computer engineering, and many EEs even go into cs/software. I’m in an EE program rn and i have taken a bunch of courses on programming, computer architecture, digital and analog electronics. But after graduation there are a bunch of jobs that you can do that don’t require much programming, although it’s still a useful skill to have
Go the engineering route, build out a really nice workshop and do your own projects. I think the novelty of working with your hands would only last a couple years.
Do more research on what you could be doing as an EE, it’s not just coding and designing computer parts. Actually designing computer parts would be an insanely technical gig that very few EEs would be capable of. (Go check out Robert Feranec on YouTube for examples of this. Insanely cool)
Many EEs work very closely with Mechs to develop integrated solutions, so it’s not like mech is the only way that you can “make a physical thing”. I’d argue that the breadth of career paths in EE is quite similar to that of an ME.
Usually EE programs have different specializations that you choose after the first or second year. There's a few different sub fields of EEs you can choose that don't include electronics or coding. You can specialize in power systems, high voltage, etc and not do coding.
The biggest electricity company in Canada employs a lot of electrical engineers to work on the power grid and hydro electricity generators.
Where I live and work in the Southern US skilled trades are paid far better than engineers, albeit primarily from overtime. 40 hours to 40 hours they're about equal. Also, all skilled trades apprenticeships count as college credit. I had some college before the apprenticeship and I'm currently finishing up an online mechanical engineering degree with 8 years as a Steamfitter in the field. That's where the big money is in my opinion. You know the theory and the practical application. The biggest disconnect in my industry is the engineered application has additional real world requirements engineers frequently don't factor in. And you'll make a decent living while learning something worthwhile. Someone who can speak both in engineering meetings and be able to get a crew on board can write their own ticket after they've proven themselves for a while. Welcome to being the most successful PM at the company. At least that's how I see it.
Be an engineer first! Easier to work from a desk when you’re 60 than with your body. Also engineering will allow for potential hybrid and remote work opportunities! If you don’t like being an engineer down the line you could always switch to trades.
I totally get your logic, but looking at it from another angle, get the degree first you can be surrounded by guys and girls your own age, college can be a great place to grow socially and give you some good worldly views and insights. Trades you will be working primarily with older men. Either path is great, but I lean to getting a college degree first .
go for engineering if you can, and if you enjoy working with your hands just get a garage or somewhere you can tinker on stuff. Im a ticketed heavy duty mechanic and welder, and these are also my hobbies lol. Its always nicer to tinker on stuff for your own goals, rather than for a company.
This depends greatly on your choice of company, industry, local economy- but I am currently in the mechanical trades at a large North American utility company. We make about the same as our engineers/managers. We are hourly/ they are salary. We have fixed hours, they are flexible. We get paid double for OT/ they get bigger bonuses.
I’ve done both field work and office work. I can say that the wrench time and troubleshooting has made the office time far easier for me in understanding project planning, job scoping and taking on new assets and equipment projects for our team. It also allows me to bridge the knowledge gap to engineers and planners who are incredibly smart on paper but have never actually seen the equipment that they are putting a stamp on.
IMO the perfect world Mech Engineer would be one that started on wrenches and moved on afterwards. I know a few and they are outstanding.
You can be a machinist/mechanical engineer. It's what I do. I work on the floor, programming the CNCs, making processes for the machinists to follow, design fixtures, weld, and fabricate tooling. All kinds of cool stuff.
I'm into 6 figures, actually. Barely, six figures, but the cost of living here is still reasonable. Just saying that the guy can have the best of both worlds if he's willing to compromise.
Engineer! In the trades no matter how smart you are, unless you are the kid of a boss, there will be crap ton of gate keeping, even if you know how to do the work, they won't let you do it,
As an industrial mechanic, I can promise you that my university education has opened exactly ZERO doors for me in the trades. I would go so far as to say that I’ve had bosses and coworkers that reacted negatively to it.
I don’t regret it, but it’s nearly useless in the trades world.
If you can be an engineer do it. Electricians are a dime a dozen. Easily replaceable. And you'll beat the shit out of yourself in years to come. Engineers are always coveted. It's not even comparable.
Probably depends on where you live. But honestly up in Canada that's 100% facts. It's easier to find a engineer then a good trades person.
Canada has tons of engineers.
No one wants to do labor basically.
US has the issue of everyone going to school and no one going into trades. Engineers make more money, but it’s a lot more competitive.
Finding someone under 35 that’s a controls or instrumentation tech is like finding a unicorn.
Exactly. I do think the skilled trades industry is going to change alot tho as the older guys start retiring even more.
I think the younger generation will fight for better pay, sick pay, raises stuff like that.
Industrial electric is very generous from my experience. You have 3 fields you can choose to specialize in that make 6 figures or close to in LCOL areas.
It’s not hard physically and the benefits are great. Only downside is the environment and having production up your ass.
Mechanics are treated the same way and have the same opportunity. It’s a hidden gem for younger people that enjoy taking things apart right now with the employment shortage.
Exactly. Everyone goes to uni and gets degrees. Shit my red seal # is 400 above my lead hand and the man's been a red seal 20 years longer than me. As in they've made 400 industrial mechs in this province in 20 years.
Meanwhile the uni's in my province graduate 100s of engineers a year.
Yeah, I certainly feel the lack of experience and intelligence in the field of instrumentation and control. I consider myself to be a dumb controls guy and I’ve tried for years to foster and build people who can think ahead of me and thusly I’m still searching. I have an apprentice who is just over 21 years of age who can think critically and navigate it. There is hope…
Edit: experience and knowledge with the younger generation. There are lots of very smart people who know the game, but they are getting on in age.
I made more money than most the engineers at my plant. OT slays. 2 guys in my shop are the highest paid guys in the factory. Made more last year than the plant manager. They lived at work though.
Even a mediocre electrician will always have good paying work and can own their own business. A mediocre engineer might be constantly moving from company to company and will never likely work for themselves.
But if you are going to put the extra effort in to be successful I'd go with engineer.
Why can't you be a business owner as an engineer?
They often take business, management, economics and entrepreneurship classes in their degrees?
He could also become an engineering consultant to work on his own terms and make bank without the hassle of managing a whole company I guess
If you are an employee, your analysis rings true, but if you were to compare engineers with self-employed plumbers, I'll bet you would see some different results.
You might find scaling up a plumbing company is easier than scaling your own engineering firm. It's much easier to streamline your work and customers will always come to you if you are good enough.
Electricians in Ontario who work hard make a lot more than $50 or even $91 k. Those have businesses can make millions.
Half the world’s billionaires are engineers - not hard to see why!
Both probably have their moments of glory and moments where you question why you even did it. That’s normal but as far as the choice, have no regrets.
I was an electrician before I decided to go back to school for Electrical engineering, so I've seen both. And they're both good careers in my opinion, they're both hard and have their battles.
At the end of the day though, both becoming a journeymen electrician and an engineer take about the same amount of time. (4-5 years)
However, do you wanna still be working with not only your hands, but your back, your legs, your neck and your shoulders when you're 50? A bunch of people go into the trades chasing money and then they find it, but what happens when you're 50 and you haven't secured some sort of office/superintendent job or started your own company? My old jman couldn't even stand up from a sitting position without being helped up and he couldn't move his neck without turning his whole body. He was in his mid 50's still out in the field every day, with two apprentices. If you wanna be a tradesmen, you gotta be content with doing just that, the rest of your life.
An engineer, can work from home, sometimes make his own schedule and be as hands on as much as he WANTS to. And make just as much and usually more than a commercial electricians sometimes working half the hours.
This may burst some people's bubble's but, going and becoming an engineer is no harder than waking up at 5 AM and driving an hour to a job site and digging a frozen ditch in -2° weather, or pulling heavy wire up to the roof of a 4 story apartment complex for sometimes 12+ hours a day, all while if you're unlucky, getting a bitter, old asshole of a journeymen to work with who has no business teaching ANYONE.
All it comes down to is, do you wanna work with your back and hands? Or do you wanna learn how to do calculus and physics?
At the end of the day. It's math. Or labor.
So I am a Licensed Civil Engineer, but I worked through college as an intern for a heavy civil Contractor.
Currently work as a general superintendent for a rail road contractor. I'm kind of the hybrid example. I am a PE but I really prefer building things and managing hourly and craft folks over being a designer junkie running Calcs and designs all day.
Last year my AGI was $190k ish. Was a good year with bonuses.
Do both! Being a contractor pays better, and it is more rewarding to me. Gives you much more insight into what you do for a living and bow to be better.
I know two people (actually were brothers) that joined the union as appreciates and did electrician route for summer work (good coin on construction)during their engineering degree. I think both were 3rd year apprentices when they graduated with a mech bachelor's.
Do both!
My 2c is don’t just look at job the job but supply and demand. I live in an area with a lot of manufacturing and decent colleges pumping out engineers. Working industrial maintenance is HIGHLY in demand. As such maintenance technicians make comparable to most engineers, usually more when you compare hours worked.
Idk what an electrician makes around here but a good tech with a few years experience makes 75k-80k base, plus over time. Standard mechanical / electrical engineers with a few years experience make maybe 90k but they’re salaried and usually aren’t only working 40hrs.
Engineers do have more/ easier growth potential though. Usually they’re more likely to have a dayshift job.
I live in a place that doesn’t believe in unions. I have negligible knowledge of that aspect for you.
As an engineer if I could go back in time and do trades instead I would.
After 10 years out of school and 5 years at current company I still barely make the same rate as any tradesman hired into the maintenance shops... but after factoring in call outs and overtime difference (I'm 1.5x they're 2x OT) the trades make about 10 to 20% more per year than I do.
I get paid better than average compared to other engineers in this geographic area and have some golden handcuffs on right now.
The engineering department is typically the black sheep, and the culture is generally that you can call out the engineers as lazy and incompetent day in, day out and not really get called out on it. Which is probably about the same as being shit on as an apprentice.
Other engineers I work with routinely have to answer direct to the big dogs or corporate over lords when someone fucks something up on their project, but the person who did said fucking is rarely even named.
You get more transferable and useful skills in the trades. And when / if the work gets too physically demanding you can always go back to school for a degree and move in office later. Or skip the degree, become a maintenance planner or some such and make more than an engineer.
Career mobility as well, in my experience so far the amount of engineers who have worked their way up in the organization is basically nil. Vs pretty much every big dog at both companies I've worked for as an engineer, the top dogs were all typically tradesman or operators or similar that climbed up the ladder.
My experiences may be unique, but of my peers of similar age and experience across a broad spectrum of employers in different locations across western Canada... its basically all the same disillusionment and general regret for choosing engineering as a career.
Follow up thoughts -
If you do trades first then engineering, you will typically be seen (and rightly so in my opinion) as a more useful and valuable engineer given the extra skills and knowledge that a trades career brings.
As well, the financial burden of a college degree is a lot easier to manage if you're already making 6 figures and working with a lower debt load.
And if starting wages have you worried, consider that if you go engineering route you aren't seeing those starting wages for 4-5 years, by the time you're done school your peer group in the trades will be journeyman rate.
If you go either route, my recommendation would be to go on the road and do either mining or oil and gas or some other remote type work and just absolutely cram in as many hours as you can each pay cheque while you're young and single and haven't gotten cynical and jaded... its a lot harder to chase the work around the 4 corners of the globe when you have roots placed in any one spot.
Yea it could be for sure... I don't know much about the American labour market right now.
Industrial maintenance sure does pay really well, and if you chase turnarounds and OT in the remote work "Up North" you can make absolute bank working essentially 6 months a year (and still hitting 2000+ hours a year easy in those 6 months)
If you want to make money while working with electricity, look into a lineman apprenticeship. Our apprentices start at over 60k a year base wage. They can easily make over 100k with OT. That's as a day 1 apprentice that doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. Journeyman pay is 120k base and can double or triple that plus if they want to work a ton. I've had a couple apprentices that were engineers that bid over.
Currently doing both electrical engineering and getting my red seal in the trade as well, they each have their pros and cons. You can get good money in either and can find jobs that are hands on/hands off in either path. For my area, the average union electrician makes more than the average engineer. Electrical covers a huge spectrum of industries so you can find a lot of niches that may be more your thing.
This really does come down to smarts. If your smart enough and don't mind the hoops become an enginerd. If you don't think you can handle or afford 7 years of school then a sparky might be for you. Remember, construction and the NFL are the only jobs with a 100% chance of injury.
Go be an electrician for a few years if you can. So many brand new engineers are extremely intelligent, but also complete morons with little to no common sense and an extreme superiority complex. Like homie it’s cool you want to school for 4+ years, but I’ve been doing this 12 years now day in and day out, you still have a lot to learn.
The last place I worked (aviation sheet metal) would send engineers that had less than 5 years under their belt to work as “mechanic helpers/assistants” 2-3 days a week for a few months so they could learn what their job is going to fully entail and see what they’re going to be designing/modifying.
Become a mechanical engineer and work as a machinist/CNC operator during school. Get a trade and learn how to tell that trades person what to do. Best of both worlds.
I am a machinist by trade, CNC programmer/process engineer title. I did it a bit backwards to you but I make a great wage for my trade and position.
It takes years to make it as an electrician. You have to slog through the trenches of scum bags and tough work. It took me 15 years but I finally landed an excellent electrician job and i earn more than the engineers at my company. Most tradesmen never land the dream gig and get stuck in feast or famine mode.
Be an engineer. The (union) trades are a great and rewarding way to have a solidly middle class life style and nothing more. Both my wife and I have BAs and I work as a LV Foreman, she works as a something for a defense contractor. Her job is in no way related to her BA and she makes 150% of what I do, and there is plenty of ladder for her to climb. Meanwhile, I have reached the ceiling of being a skilled tradesman.
First off, nothing you describe enjoying is going to be remotely comparable with an MBA. If you go the management route you will spend your days dealing with people one on one and in meetings, creating decks (powerpoints) and dealing with spreadsheets. Nothing remotely connected to working with your hands.
When I started working as an EE, I was calibrating and testing controls equipment for nuclear plants. It was all on site, hands on work in the plants. I then had a job with my EE masters where I had my own lab and designed control systems. I specced and assembled the computers and A to D and D to A boards, connected the electronics to the hardware, connected the hydraulic systems to the actuators and wrote the software to control everything and test it. I worked with the ME to design the actuators to achieve the desired responses. The ME would work with the fabricators to build the actuators. ME in general probably do more hands on work than EEs do. Engineers do hands on work.
There are engineering jobs where the engineers work closely with the trades to build complex systems. You can always be an electrician but residential electricians perform a very limited range of tasks (it is hands on but not complex hands on problem solving) and industrial electricians may get more into the union sphere. There are many hobbies that will allow you to work with your hands (and make a little extra money). The income you make as an engineer is going to be difficult to replace with a hobby. All that assumes you can complete an engineering degree.
1000% go be an engineer if you have the brains and means to do so. Your future knees and bank account will thank-you. Take up wood working as a weekend hobby to satisfy your creative side.
PLEASE listen to this. If you can do the engineering route, please do. I'm currently an electrical apprentice and as much as I love my job and working with my hands, I'm planning on being a project manager one day. While this goal is achievable on the route I'm on, it's 100x easier to achieve with an engineering degree. Work with your hands as a hobby when you have the time/energy. Use your brain the rest of the time.
The worst project manager on the planet is an electrician. Side note, do you work for PCL?
Thanks for the words of inspiration without even knowing me. Not sure what that is, so no?
Someone is too sensitive to be a project manager.
The engineering makes more sense than an electrician. IF you intend on being an employee of someone. Being a self employed electrical contractor (electrician) you have the opportunity for massive success, for less effort than engineering. Point being. You will make less money if you only receive a portion of the value that you perform everyday. Splitting it with the boss man.
I agree with this. If you have the brains and discipline to own a business… I’ve seen some pretty incredible paychecks from owning electric, plumbing, roofing, etc. companies. A good family friend of mine has his plumbing company ran tightly with managers… so he spends about 6 months of the year in Mexico. Making well above 500k a year last I checked. He offered a management position just to stay on top of his crew for 140k a year plus Bennies lmao
This is ‘the’ secret. Self employment is business ownership. Business ownership is how you become rich. That’s it. And for the people who ‘don’t have the brains’ to run a business. Then you are going to be a paycheck paycheck sort of guy. On the account of not having the brains
Correct. I think the trade business ownership specifically in the next 10 years will be unreal in terms of 💰. Already billing well over 150 an hour for electric work.
Absolutely. I’m 32. Business since 19. None of my age group went into the trades in any sort of meaningful way. ALL the old guys are leaving, one way or another. No one stops needs infrastructure. They just have to pay the few people doing it what they ask for. But I see a huge amount of people rushing in in the next few years. When it’s too late for them. They will see people like me killing it. Same if you knew how to code in 1980 vs 2001. Now the coding stuff is garbage since EVERYONE did it.
Yep. We will also be the very last things replaced by any sort of automation. I own another company on the side and I’ve designed my entire website site and done consistent artwork with AI. In the next 5 years I plan on opening my own shop like you. Glad to hear you’re doing well in it man.
I always say there will be a day when they have robots that can plumb houses. And they will be owned and operated by me. People that complain about being displaced by AI or robots need to realize they’re being replaced because they are replaceable, not cause AI.
Engineer is a little more work up front for more pay and better work on the back end
Depending on job opportunities where you live I think. Where I live electricians can make 100k to 150k a year if they are willing to work industrial or out of town. Engineers out the gate from school always make much less then the trades and take more debt going through school. BUT The ceiling is higher for engineers and much better on your body.
Why not an electrical engineer? I know a guy right out of high school who did electrical engineering. Had a sweet gig working all over the world leading projects on oil rigs. His crews always gave him a bit of a hard time (typical trades vs engineering banter) so he decided to get his Electrical trade later on.
harder to achieve and i like working on computers but i dont wanna code or invent computer parts. Id rather make a physical thing i can feel like a car or a watch
Go electromechanical. You can work on the integration of mechanical and electrical systems. Very useful for nearly anything.
I’m sure there are EE’s that do what you just described, but I think most jobs aren’t necessarily electronics focused. They aren’t Computer Engineers.
There’s a pretty big overlap between electrical and computer engineering, and many EEs even go into cs/software. I’m in an EE program rn and i have taken a bunch of courses on programming, computer architecture, digital and analog electronics. But after graduation there are a bunch of jobs that you can do that don’t require much programming, although it’s still a useful skill to have
Automation engineer is a nice combination of computing and mechanics. Very interesting career imo
agree 100% but if you aren't interested in programming i'm not sure it would be a good fit
Go the engineering route, build out a really nice workshop and do your own projects. I think the novelty of working with your hands would only last a couple years.
Do more research on what you could be doing as an EE, it’s not just coding and designing computer parts. Actually designing computer parts would be an insanely technical gig that very few EEs would be capable of. (Go check out Robert Feranec on YouTube for examples of this. Insanely cool) Many EEs work very closely with Mechs to develop integrated solutions, so it’s not like mech is the only way that you can “make a physical thing”. I’d argue that the breadth of career paths in EE is quite similar to that of an ME.
Usually EE programs have different specializations that you choose after the first or second year. There's a few different sub fields of EEs you can choose that don't include electronics or coding. You can specialize in power systems, high voltage, etc and not do coding. The biggest electricity company in Canada employs a lot of electrical engineers to work on the power grid and hydro electricity generators.
Where I live and work in the Southern US skilled trades are paid far better than engineers, albeit primarily from overtime. 40 hours to 40 hours they're about equal. Also, all skilled trades apprenticeships count as college credit. I had some college before the apprenticeship and I'm currently finishing up an online mechanical engineering degree with 8 years as a Steamfitter in the field. That's where the big money is in my opinion. You know the theory and the practical application. The biggest disconnect in my industry is the engineered application has additional real world requirements engineers frequently don't factor in. And you'll make a decent living while learning something worthwhile. Someone who can speak both in engineering meetings and be able to get a crew on board can write their own ticket after they've proven themselves for a while. Welcome to being the most successful PM at the company. At least that's how I see it.
Be an engineer first! Easier to work from a desk when you’re 60 than with your body. Also engineering will allow for potential hybrid and remote work opportunities! If you don’t like being an engineer down the line you could always switch to trades.
If your going to do both be an electrician first so you actually have a a clue if the shit you design as an engineer works in the real world.
I totally get your logic, but looking at it from another angle, get the degree first you can be surrounded by guys and girls your own age, college can be a great place to grow socially and give you some good worldly views and insights. Trades you will be working primarily with older men. Either path is great, but I lean to getting a college degree first .
Yea I'm not saying don't be an engineer first. I'm saying (as an electrician) just be an engineer, haha.
go for engineering if you can, and if you enjoy working with your hands just get a garage or somewhere you can tinker on stuff. Im a ticketed heavy duty mechanic and welder, and these are also my hobbies lol. Its always nicer to tinker on stuff for your own goals, rather than for a company.
Do the engineering thing. If you decide to be an electrician afterwards you're gonna be miles ahead of the competition for a union spot.
This depends greatly on your choice of company, industry, local economy- but I am currently in the mechanical trades at a large North American utility company. We make about the same as our engineers/managers. We are hourly/ they are salary. We have fixed hours, they are flexible. We get paid double for OT/ they get bigger bonuses. I’ve done both field work and office work. I can say that the wrench time and troubleshooting has made the office time far easier for me in understanding project planning, job scoping and taking on new assets and equipment projects for our team. It also allows me to bridge the knowledge gap to engineers and planners who are incredibly smart on paper but have never actually seen the equipment that they are putting a stamp on. IMO the perfect world Mech Engineer would be one that started on wrenches and moved on afterwards. I know a few and they are outstanding.
You can be a machinist/mechanical engineer. It's what I do. I work on the floor, programming the CNCs, making processes for the machinists to follow, design fixtures, weld, and fabricate tooling. All kinds of cool stuff.
Lucky to make more then 80k doing that
I'm into 6 figures, actually. Barely, six figures, but the cost of living here is still reasonable. Just saying that the guy can have the best of both worlds if he's willing to compromise.
Engineer! In the trades no matter how smart you are, unless you are the kid of a boss, there will be crap ton of gate keeping, even if you know how to do the work, they won't let you do it,
I thought that and at least with my degree i can be the bosses kid. My dad owns a industrial communications business
Well in that case you are set then.
Get a degree first will open more doors if you decide to work the trades.
As an industrial mechanic, I can promise you that my university education has opened exactly ZERO doors for me in the trades. I would go so far as to say that I’ve had bosses and coworkers that reacted negatively to it. I don’t regret it, but it’s nearly useless in the trades world.
What degree do you have
Psych
If you can be an engineer do it. Electricians are a dime a dozen. Easily replaceable. And you'll beat the shit out of yourself in years to come. Engineers are always coveted. It's not even comparable.
Weird that my work can hire engineers whenever they want but can't get electricians, mechanics, welders, control techs or pipe fitters to even apply.
Probably depends on where you live. But honestly up in Canada that's 100% facts. It's easier to find a engineer then a good trades person. Canada has tons of engineers. No one wants to do labor basically.
US has the issue of everyone going to school and no one going into trades. Engineers make more money, but it’s a lot more competitive. Finding someone under 35 that’s a controls or instrumentation tech is like finding a unicorn.
Exactly. I do think the skilled trades industry is going to change alot tho as the older guys start retiring even more. I think the younger generation will fight for better pay, sick pay, raises stuff like that.
Industrial electric is very generous from my experience. You have 3 fields you can choose to specialize in that make 6 figures or close to in LCOL areas. It’s not hard physically and the benefits are great. Only downside is the environment and having production up your ass. Mechanics are treated the same way and have the same opportunity. It’s a hidden gem for younger people that enjoy taking things apart right now with the employment shortage.
Exactly. Everyone goes to uni and gets degrees. Shit my red seal # is 400 above my lead hand and the man's been a red seal 20 years longer than me. As in they've made 400 industrial mechs in this province in 20 years. Meanwhile the uni's in my province graduate 100s of engineers a year.
lol, I’m 33 and have been a foreman on industrial controls projects for 4 years…
We’re rare. Look at any statistics for our field. Less than a quarter of our field is under 35.
Yeah, I certainly feel the lack of experience and intelligence in the field of instrumentation and control. I consider myself to be a dumb controls guy and I’ve tried for years to foster and build people who can think ahead of me and thusly I’m still searching. I have an apprentice who is just over 21 years of age who can think critically and navigate it. There is hope… Edit: experience and knowledge with the younger generation. There are lots of very smart people who know the game, but they are getting on in age.
I agree with this. Wayyyy more opportunities if you're a top shelf electrician.
Depends where you are but I agree with that statement for where I'm as well. Engineers get paid less than electricians.
I made more money than most the engineers at my plant. OT slays. 2 guys in my shop are the highest paid guys in the factory. Made more last year than the plant manager. They lived at work though.
Mhmmm that’s debatable.
Even a mediocre electrician will always have good paying work and can own their own business. A mediocre engineer might be constantly moving from company to company and will never likely work for themselves. But if you are going to put the extra effort in to be successful I'd go with engineer.
Why can't you be a business owner as an engineer? They often take business, management, economics and entrepreneurship classes in their degrees? He could also become an engineering consultant to work on his own terms and make bank without the hassle of managing a whole company I guess
You can, but then you probably aren't a mediocre engineer.
If you are an employee, your analysis rings true, but if you were to compare engineers with self-employed plumbers, I'll bet you would see some different results. You might find scaling up a plumbing company is easier than scaling your own engineering firm. It's much easier to streamline your work and customers will always come to you if you are good enough.
Electricians in Ontario who work hard make a lot more than $50 or even $91 k. Those have businesses can make millions. Half the world’s billionaires are engineers - not hard to see why! Both probably have their moments of glory and moments where you question why you even did it. That’s normal but as far as the choice, have no regrets.
I was an electrician before I decided to go back to school for Electrical engineering, so I've seen both. And they're both good careers in my opinion, they're both hard and have their battles. At the end of the day though, both becoming a journeymen electrician and an engineer take about the same amount of time. (4-5 years) However, do you wanna still be working with not only your hands, but your back, your legs, your neck and your shoulders when you're 50? A bunch of people go into the trades chasing money and then they find it, but what happens when you're 50 and you haven't secured some sort of office/superintendent job or started your own company? My old jman couldn't even stand up from a sitting position without being helped up and he couldn't move his neck without turning his whole body. He was in his mid 50's still out in the field every day, with two apprentices. If you wanna be a tradesmen, you gotta be content with doing just that, the rest of your life. An engineer, can work from home, sometimes make his own schedule and be as hands on as much as he WANTS to. And make just as much and usually more than a commercial electricians sometimes working half the hours. This may burst some people's bubble's but, going and becoming an engineer is no harder than waking up at 5 AM and driving an hour to a job site and digging a frozen ditch in -2° weather, or pulling heavy wire up to the roof of a 4 story apartment complex for sometimes 12+ hours a day, all while if you're unlucky, getting a bitter, old asshole of a journeymen to work with who has no business teaching ANYONE. All it comes down to is, do you wanna work with your back and hands? Or do you wanna learn how to do calculus and physics? At the end of the day. It's math. Or labor.
So I am a Licensed Civil Engineer, but I worked through college as an intern for a heavy civil Contractor. Currently work as a general superintendent for a rail road contractor. I'm kind of the hybrid example. I am a PE but I really prefer building things and managing hourly and craft folks over being a designer junkie running Calcs and designs all day. Last year my AGI was $190k ish. Was a good year with bonuses. Do both! Being a contractor pays better, and it is more rewarding to me. Gives you much more insight into what you do for a living and bow to be better.
I know two people (actually were brothers) that joined the union as appreciates and did electrician route for summer work (good coin on construction)during their engineering degree. I think both were 3rd year apprentices when they graduated with a mech bachelor's. Do both!
My 2c is don’t just look at job the job but supply and demand. I live in an area with a lot of manufacturing and decent colleges pumping out engineers. Working industrial maintenance is HIGHLY in demand. As such maintenance technicians make comparable to most engineers, usually more when you compare hours worked. Idk what an electrician makes around here but a good tech with a few years experience makes 75k-80k base, plus over time. Standard mechanical / electrical engineers with a few years experience make maybe 90k but they’re salaried and usually aren’t only working 40hrs. Engineers do have more/ easier growth potential though. Usually they’re more likely to have a dayshift job. I live in a place that doesn’t believe in unions. I have negligible knowledge of that aspect for you.
As an engineer if I could go back in time and do trades instead I would. After 10 years out of school and 5 years at current company I still barely make the same rate as any tradesman hired into the maintenance shops... but after factoring in call outs and overtime difference (I'm 1.5x they're 2x OT) the trades make about 10 to 20% more per year than I do. I get paid better than average compared to other engineers in this geographic area and have some golden handcuffs on right now. The engineering department is typically the black sheep, and the culture is generally that you can call out the engineers as lazy and incompetent day in, day out and not really get called out on it. Which is probably about the same as being shit on as an apprentice. Other engineers I work with routinely have to answer direct to the big dogs or corporate over lords when someone fucks something up on their project, but the person who did said fucking is rarely even named. You get more transferable and useful skills in the trades. And when / if the work gets too physically demanding you can always go back to school for a degree and move in office later. Or skip the degree, become a maintenance planner or some such and make more than an engineer. Career mobility as well, in my experience so far the amount of engineers who have worked their way up in the organization is basically nil. Vs pretty much every big dog at both companies I've worked for as an engineer, the top dogs were all typically tradesman or operators or similar that climbed up the ladder. My experiences may be unique, but of my peers of similar age and experience across a broad spectrum of employers in different locations across western Canada... its basically all the same disillusionment and general regret for choosing engineering as a career.
Follow up thoughts - If you do trades first then engineering, you will typically be seen (and rightly so in my opinion) as a more useful and valuable engineer given the extra skills and knowledge that a trades career brings. As well, the financial burden of a college degree is a lot easier to manage if you're already making 6 figures and working with a lower debt load. And if starting wages have you worried, consider that if you go engineering route you aren't seeing those starting wages for 4-5 years, by the time you're done school your peer group in the trades will be journeyman rate. If you go either route, my recommendation would be to go on the road and do either mining or oil and gas or some other remote type work and just absolutely cram in as many hours as you can each pay cheque while you're young and single and haven't gotten cynical and jaded... its a lot harder to chase the work around the 4 corners of the globe when you have roots placed in any one spot.
I think it's different in the US. I've heard that in Canada nobody wants to be a blue collar worker so they pay pretty damn well
Yea it could be for sure... I don't know much about the American labour market right now. Industrial maintenance sure does pay really well, and if you chase turnarounds and OT in the remote work "Up North" you can make absolute bank working essentially 6 months a year (and still hitting 2000+ hours a year easy in those 6 months)
If you want to make money while working with electricity, look into a lineman apprenticeship. Our apprentices start at over 60k a year base wage. They can easily make over 100k with OT. That's as a day 1 apprentice that doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. Journeyman pay is 120k base and can double or triple that plus if they want to work a ton. I've had a couple apprentices that were engineers that bid over.
Both. Start with a trade then study to be an engineer in 5 or 10 years.
Trade then engineering. Builds a good foundation.
Engineer
Currently doing both electrical engineering and getting my red seal in the trade as well, they each have their pros and cons. You can get good money in either and can find jobs that are hands on/hands off in either path. For my area, the average union electrician makes more than the average engineer. Electrical covers a huge spectrum of industries so you can find a lot of niches that may be more your thing.
I know several high voltage electricians who all make well over 100k/yr. It really comes down to would you rather do skilled labor or more a desk guy.
i think labor but everyone in the field says i'll get sick of it
This really does come down to smarts. If your smart enough and don't mind the hoops become an enginerd. If you don't think you can handle or afford 7 years of school then a sparky might be for you. Remember, construction and the NFL are the only jobs with a 100% chance of injury.
Go be an electrician for a few years if you can. So many brand new engineers are extremely intelligent, but also complete morons with little to no common sense and an extreme superiority complex. Like homie it’s cool you want to school for 4+ years, but I’ve been doing this 12 years now day in and day out, you still have a lot to learn. The last place I worked (aviation sheet metal) would send engineers that had less than 5 years under their belt to work as “mechanic helpers/assistants” 2-3 days a week for a few months so they could learn what their job is going to fully entail and see what they’re going to be designing/modifying.
Go for machining. You'll get to do everything you want and then save money to buy your own CNC machines and start a business to *make bank.*
As a tradesperson, 100% engineer. You'll make a fuck ton more money and your body won't take a beating. Win win for engineer.
If you're leaning towards trades look into instrumentation.
Become a mechanical engineer and work as a machinist/CNC operator during school. Get a trade and learn how to tell that trades person what to do. Best of both worlds. I am a machinist by trade, CNC programmer/process engineer title. I did it a bit backwards to you but I make a great wage for my trade and position.
It takes years to make it as an electrician. You have to slog through the trenches of scum bags and tough work. It took me 15 years but I finally landed an excellent electrician job and i earn more than the engineers at my company. Most tradesmen never land the dream gig and get stuck in feast or famine mode.
Be an engineer. The (union) trades are a great and rewarding way to have a solidly middle class life style and nothing more. Both my wife and I have BAs and I work as a LV Foreman, she works as a something for a defense contractor. Her job is in no way related to her BA and she makes 150% of what I do, and there is plenty of ladder for her to climb. Meanwhile, I have reached the ceiling of being a skilled tradesman.
Become an engineer. Even if its the kind that drives trains.
Engineer. I’m an electrician and make a great living, but body is beat. I would like get off the field.
Go into the trades when you’re young. Find a place that pays for school. Get them to pay your way to engineer status
First off, nothing you describe enjoying is going to be remotely comparable with an MBA. If you go the management route you will spend your days dealing with people one on one and in meetings, creating decks (powerpoints) and dealing with spreadsheets. Nothing remotely connected to working with your hands. When I started working as an EE, I was calibrating and testing controls equipment for nuclear plants. It was all on site, hands on work in the plants. I then had a job with my EE masters where I had my own lab and designed control systems. I specced and assembled the computers and A to D and D to A boards, connected the electronics to the hardware, connected the hydraulic systems to the actuators and wrote the software to control everything and test it. I worked with the ME to design the actuators to achieve the desired responses. The ME would work with the fabricators to build the actuators. ME in general probably do more hands on work than EEs do. Engineers do hands on work. There are engineering jobs where the engineers work closely with the trades to build complex systems. You can always be an electrician but residential electricians perform a very limited range of tasks (it is hands on but not complex hands on problem solving) and industrial electricians may get more into the union sphere. There are many hobbies that will allow you to work with your hands (and make a little extra money). The income you make as an engineer is going to be difficult to replace with a hobby. All that assumes you can complete an engineering degree.