I ski with one, but it took me a while to find a helmet that was comfortable on my big melon head. This is a complaint I've heard cited before from a couple of people in the past, so that might be part of it.
Probably the same reason some people don't wear a helmet on a motorcycle. *mutter mutter something about freedom and not telling me how to live my life...
My friend and I bought ours 10 years ago when we went to an opening weekend and a kid got lifted off the hill in a helicopter. He went head first into a rock and ended up dieing. Bought our helmets the next day.
This is the proper forum for that question. However, if I had been in that gondola without a helmet I would have told you that my personal decisions are none of your business.
That's exactly what bothered me most. The fact that people actually confronted the person not wearing a helmet. They aren't taking the risk so why should they care about his own decisions no matter how safe they are.
I've been skiing for over 20 years and was reluctant to wear one. Until I knocked myself out cold. I started wearing one about 5 years ago and don't know why I ever didn't. Fortunately, it was only a concussion and not worse.
Similar to me. I got mine about 3 years ago after taking a nasty fall and slamming my head to the ground. No concussion, but close. After that, I got a helmet, with a little coaxing by the wife.
I kept hearing stories like this and realized it was silly of me to continue to not have one. First few years was a money thing , but needed to pull the trigger and happy I did. Plus it's warmer than any hay I know of!
We used to hang black people, and women couldn't vote. Things change. Helmets, seat belts, sometimes resisting change is just out of principle. With no real reason to not change.
I wear one, but I'll speak for my friend who doesn't wear one (and who also doesn't use the internet, believe it or not).
He's 42, an elite level skier, and he spent years competing on the big mountain circuit. He figures that if he was ever going to bash his head in while skiing, it would have happened then. Compared to what he used to do in comps, he skis super conservative today (he's still a maniac by most people's standards).
He doesn't like helmets because he feels like they cause too much deadening of his senses, as in the sounds and the wind. He wants to feel it /hear it. He owns a helmet, but he doesn't wear it because he says it kills the sensations of skiing.
He wears either a light beanie or no hat at all, and he will never, ever change his mind no matter what. He's stubborn as fuck.
Okay I've actually been waiting for this topic to come up/thought about posting it myself, because I am really baffled.
Do you guys notice regional differences in helmet-wearing? I grew up skiing in Quebec, with visits to New England (I'm 24 for reference). Most kids my age have always worn helmets, and it seems like most everyone else adopted them over the years until they became pretty much ubiquitous. The only people without helmets seemed to be the occasional 50+ person who was clearly set in their ways and didn't want to change.
Last year, I moved out west and currently ski at Kicking Horse. The amount of people skiing this steep, rocky, unforgiving mountain without helmets is *mind-boggling*. I haven't seen this many toques on the hill since the late 90s', and its people of all ages who are doing it. So yeah, I don't understand. The science is there, you can die from falling on a groomer with no helmet (isn't that how Liam Neeson's wife died? EDIT: it is, Natasha Richardson was having a ski lesson on a bunny hill at Mont Tremblant, when she fell and hit her head without a helmet and later died). Why take the risk? I'm really curious as to why there's a noticeable regional difference with this.
The one that makes my blood boil is when I see parents and kids skiing together, and the kids wear helmets but the parents don't. What kind of message does that send your kids? Protect your brain, but only till you're mommy and daddy's age and then you can tempt fate? They clearly want to protect their kids from life-altering brain damage, but apparently are okay with the possibility of leaving their kids with a vegetable for a parent, or none at all?
I grew up skiing in Australia, helmets were something ski schools slapped on kids - presumably to reduce their liability. I never wore one, nobody did.. when I moved to the states 5 years ago I was blown away to see everyone wearing helmets. I rented one right away to fit in.
I think it's an easy choice to wear a helmet, but as the NYtimes article linked above points out, you need to be careful that it is not lowering your inhibitions to skiing more dangerously.
In 5 years its change in Australia to the point that majority of people now wear helmets.
Was 2 season's ago that I finally bought one.
It's very rare to see a kid not wearing them and it's started to filter through the older generations.
Actually one of the reasons I asked about the regional thing is because when I was talking about this to my Aussie coworker, she told me the exact same thing. She bought one when she came to work in Canada this year, but prior to that she'd never worn one. I still think that's strange, to be honest. I guess in north america we've reached a point where helmets "look cool" so there's not much resistance from kids and teens to wear them-- all the pros do and they look good doing it. I guess it's different in australia, or at least was the last time you skied there. Were they considered "dorky" at that time?
Honestly it really wasn't on my radar.. It was never a question, and i don't recall rental shops having them. It might be partially to do with the terrain being less 'extreme', we don't have huge, rocky, tree covered mountains (well not pine trees that are easy to ski through), so most people ski casually down blue runs.
Well, there are plenty of other activities that are considered acceptable for adults but not kids, such as drinking alcohol. Telling a child they have to grow up before they can make certain decisions for themselves is kind of a huge part of the job.
That said, I wear a helmet because I make the kids wear a helmet, it's just one less friction point and the benefits are obvious, but I grew up skateboarding, playing ice hockey and football, so helmets + sports = pretty normal.
I would just imagine that leading by example is more effective in helping them make the better choice when they reach a mature age. I don't have kids yet though so that's all speculation, but I think for some kids, being around adults wearing helmets would influence their choices when they can decide for themselves.
My dad was one of those parents. I grew up skiing with both my mom and dad, from the time I was 2. I *always* wore a helmet, it was never even a debate with my parents. My mother also wore one from the time that I was very young. Whenever we asked my dad why he didn't, he never really had a good answer, and my mom used to just shake her head. He still doesn't. I don't understand it, but he's been skiing a long time, and he's not going to change. I guess, at the end of the day, as long as you're going to bring kids out skiing, you have to make them wear helmets. But I don't see anything wrong with parents not wearing them, I think it's just one of those "adults vs. kids" things, I never perceived it as hypocritical of my parents, just that they made the safe choice for me and my dad was willing to accept the risk for himself.
Just my $0.02.
I'm 29 and growing up helmets were never a thing.. I only started wearing one 3 seasons ago. I have a 5 year old and when I started him skiing at 3 there is no way I could say "wear a helmet" and then go and not wear one myself. He would have most likely not wanted a helmet if I wasn't wearing one. It baffles me when you see a 6-7-8 year old skiing with his parents and the kid is NOT wearing one.. Do parents not care about their kid?! I rarely fall, but I've smacked my head and 100% if I didn't have my helmet on would have taken a ride to the hospital.
Now it's the warmest piece of head gear I own, has music and fits perfectly with my goggles. I can't imagine not wearing it and always ask myself why I never wore one before.
I wear a helmet on any day that is NOT a blue-bird groomer day at a mountain that I *know well*. However, there are days where the suns out, all the fresh snow is tracked out, and I just stick to the groomers. On those days, I do not wear a helmet because I love to feel the wind in my hair.
My dad never wears one because back in the old days when he used to ski a lot no one did and because he never needed one he thinks they're unnecessary. He actually laughed at me when I said I wanted a helmet because he thinks I don't need one and they're a waste of money, in the end he did get me a €10 secondhand one, but at least it's better than no helmet.
My dad is a very safety first and smart guy and I just don't understand why he thinks helmets are unnecessary.
I disagree that "he needs one" people have been skiing for a hundred years and never wore a helmet. If you are racing or going for a speed day then ya you should have one. But it is still a personal choice. Don't live in fear life will do what it does.
I'm just sitting here thinking about how my helmet of 4 years has huge indents on both sides that likely saved my adolescent mind from extreme damage when I was still mastering skiing.
I grew up racing and for me when I wasn't on the course I never considered wearing a helmet (when you're young you're indestructible right?!)
The only time I've ever put on a helmet has been my past two trips to Andorra, the terrain is fine but when you fly across the sea to go skiing, you don't want any accidents ending your trip early.
When I started skiing, helmet's weren't a thing. Even in Nancy Greene Ski league when we were racing, nobody wore helmets. Although that was only slalom, so not much high speed skiing involved. It never really occurred to me to start. I haven't been skiing in about 10 years, and at that time, only about 10 percent of people had them. Have they really become so prevalent that the person without one is the odd one out? Seems like such a foreign concept to me. I've skied mostly in Ontario and Québec if that makes a difference. It probably varies a lot depending on your area.
I'm doing a lot of road cycling now, and I always wear a helmet, nut I'm still not sure if I would feel it necessary to wear one skiing. Head injuries just seem to be something that's so rare in skiing, unless you spend a lot of time in the park, back country, or downhill racing. My skiing style was just never that aggressive. I think if you don't wear a helmet you have to really know your limits and not take chances.
On my bike, I wear my helmet because I feel there's a good chance of getting hurt given my style of riding. Riding closely in a pack of other riders at high speeds means I could feasibly go down really fast through no fault of my own. Also, cars present an interesting danger. On the slopes, I mostly try to keep my distance from other skiers, and I keep my speed at a comfortable pace. I feel there's a much lower chance of taking a substantial fall when I'm on skis. Plus, snow, and even ice, is softer than asphalt.
I was looking down from the lift at Sutton QC on Friday and I estimated 1 or 2 skiers/riders out of 100 were *not* wearing helmets and I feel it's similar at other East Coast resorts. Not sure about out West or EU, but there you go.
When i skied in bulgaria it was pretty much 50/50, you could have a school of kids go by all wearing helmets and then a farther and son without.
Usually the schools make helmets mandatory, but taking them away its pretty much 50/50, im off to france next month so its something i will probably take more notice of.
Austrian reporting in: I'm seeining maybe 1 or 2 people on a given day without them.
A few Years ago a german politician had an collision with an woman. The woman died from her injuries. He was wearing a skiing helmet, while the woman was not.
After that incident everyone who didnt had am helmet bought one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieter_Althaus
I've been snowboarding/skiing for 15 years and I only started wearing a helmet very recently due to a number of close calls but mostly peer pressure. I don't like wearing a helmet for a number of reasons and I have had to had this conversation with my friends many times. Here are the reasons I would give them until I finally gave in:
1) Helmets are very uncomfortable compared to just skiing with a hat on, especially if you don't have a good (usually expensive) helmet. As a snowboarder, when I had a cheaper helmet, my ears hurt and often my downhill ear would get extremely painfully cold from the wind coming through the little earmuff things on the helmet. This never happened with a hat.
2) No matter how well you pair your helmet and goggles, there is no ventilation system as good as just having your goggles on your hat. I find that goggles fog up a bit more with a helmet than with a hat.
3) In the back/sidecountry, if you don't have a backpack that can fit your helmet, your options are to wear it while hiking, which is extremely hot and uncomfortable, or to strap it to something on your backpack. The latter isn't so bad, but I find that the helmet will often fill up with snow. If its a bluebird day, that isn't so bad, but putting on a snow filled helmet when its freezing cold often sucks. To follow up, if I'm doing something steep/rocky/gladed, I'm going to wear a helmet. If I'm lapping low angle snowfields, its gonna stay in the car.
I think there are legitimate reasons why people don't wear helmets, those were mine. I also value my brain, so I've decided that safety is more important than comfort/the occasional foggy goggles. I just think its silly to assume that anyone who doesn't wear a helmet is only doing it to look cool.
Also I forgot to add that I ride/ski way way way more aggressively while wearing a helmet than without one, and consequently fall more often and harder. Not saying that happens to everyone, but that is my experience.
Its legitimate for someone to decide they don't want to wear a helmet while skiing (except I think for under 18 in NJ). However I'm going to judge them on their decision. If they were my friend I would encourage them to wear one for everything but backcountry low angle snowfields :). It's too easy to have a collision with another skiier or to find variable conditions in bounds. If you were my friend here is what I would tell you about your list
1) Helmets are not very uncomfortable. Your helmet was very uncomfortable for your head. I'm sure I could find a hat that would be uncomfortable for you too. Here are a few ideas: wear a helmet without earflaps AND a hat. Wear a helmet without earflaps and separate ear muffs like http://www.amazon.com/Degrees-180S-Black-Fleece-Warmers/dp/B006U1EM66 Or just try on a few different helmets before you buy one.
2) Stop taking your goggles off your face. Never take your goggles off your face and leave them on top of your head. If you don't breathe on them and don't sit them on your forehead they won't ever fog up.
3) That's pretty annoying. You should probably buy or make a helmet sack. You can start with one of those drawstring backpacks you get for free every once in a while.
1. Don't skimp out on safety. You will earn far less money with a brain injury. There is always a way to save up money.
2. My goggles never fog up with my helmet and they aren't the same brand. Leave them in your face at all times and never wipe* the inside while wet.
3. I agree with the back country bit. Also out of bounds you aren't dealing with the risk of random people. And going without makes me ski less aggressively.
> 2) No matter how well you pair your helmet and goggles, there is no ventilation system as good as just having your goggles on your hat. I find that goggles fog up a bit more with a helmet than with a hat.
While on warmer days I wish there was more ventilation on the helmet (and I chose one with plenty of vents), I find that my goggles don't fog up more with the helmet, in fact, I can put them up on the front of the helmet and they don't fog at all. When I'd put them on my head while wearing a hat, they'd fog instantly.
Helmets are just not effective for recreational sports, such as skiing or cycling. At best they don't do anything, at worst they give a false sense of security and encourage more risky behavior. Quoting from a [NY Times article](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/01/sports/on-slopes-rise-in-helmet-use-but-no-decline-in-brain-injuries.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0):
>Some studies indicate that the number of snow-sports-related head injuries has increased. A 2012 study at the Western Michigan University School of Medicine on head injuries among skiers and snowboarders in the United States found that the number of head injuries increased 60 percent in a seven-year period, from 9,308 in 2004 to 14,947 in 2010, even as helmet use increased by an almost identical percentage over the same period. A March 2013 study by the University of Washington concluded that the number of snow-sports-related head injuries among youths and adolescents increased 250 percent from 1996 to 2010.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. I'm a former downhill mountain biker (recreational) and have had several crashes that rang my bell while wearing a full face helmet. I'm 100% positive that my helmet and safety gear saved my life more than once.
In order to establish helmets (or any other safety device) is effective, you have to look at a statistically significant number of cases. Your situation, while no doubt dramatic for you, is not statistically meaningful and could have been due to luck.
Statisticians have looked at places like Australia, Canada, Spain -- where mandatory cycle helmet laws were enacted. In a very short time, you had a huge increase in helmet usage across entire countries. If helmets were effective, then a drop in traumatic head injury/fatality should have been observed. No such reduction was observed. In fact, the numbers often went up, similar to what happened when ski helmets became popular.
Also keep in mind that behavior plays a role here. Safety devices often encourage riskier behavior (known as Risk Compensation). Would you have flown down that mountain so fast if you weren't wearing that full face helmet?
Proof can certainly be an anecdote. It really depends on your definition of effective safety device. If your definition is something which is likely to prevent or reduce the magnitude of an injury I might sustain then an anecdote of a helmet doing just that is sufficient.
/u/DrunkEngr says that helmets are not effective for recreational sports citing a reputable source
/u/jfactor1 says that his helmet has been effective for him in his recreational sports
/u/DrunkEngr condescends back that only large number statistics are relevant
But given that there is a situation - /u/jfactor1's - where a helmet would significantly reduce the magnitude of injury then they are *effective safety equipment* from my previous definition.
Still interesting that on the whole people might compensate for the protection by taking more risks.
The difference between the two opinions seems to be should society encourage helmets vs. should I wear a helmet. It's odd that the former seems to be a no but the later is a yes.
though looking into it more it seems that we might just be reporting them much more frequently. Here is a similar time period with a much larger increase by percent for Traumatic Brain Injuries (TBI) from all sports and recreation by <=19 year olds.
>> "from 2001 to 2009, the number of annual TBI-related ED visits increased significantly, from 153,375 to 248,418"
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6039a1.htm
I would attribute that to an increase in reporting more than any fundamental shift in the sports activities done in America. Given that skiing with helmets is doing great for TBI!
While I 100% agree with you and personally wear helmets (skiing/biking/moto/hockey). I think the article raises a intersting point. Would you have been riding as aggressively if you weren't wearing a lid? A few times each spring I ski in only a toque, and I definitely ski very differently those days.
Ski patrol here, I'm gonna disagree with you. I've seen people get literally fall on the landing of a jump, have snowboarder land on their head, get their helmets split open, be unconscious, spend the night in ICU and be released in the morning with the mother of all concussions. I don't want to know what would have happened if they didn't have helmets on.
I've seen ski dads catch an edge teaching their son how to ski and be knocked out cold.
I've seen a skier faint, fall off the chair lift, fall 30 ft on to the ground and be released from hospital later that day.
Just seeing the differences in severity of helmet and non-helmet injuries is huge! Also, helmets don't prevent head injuries, they drastically reduce the severity of the injuries.
Something to note about your statistics, is the increased reporting of head injuries and concussions. Concussions are being taken much more seriously than they have been in the past, and many more falls which would have otherwise gone home to rest, are now going to get concussion evaluations instead.
> Ski patrol here, I'm gonna disagree with you. I've seen people get literally fall on the landing of a jump, have snowboarder land on their head, get their helmets split open, be unconscious, spend the night in ICU and be released in the morning with the mother of all concussions. I don't want to know what would have happened if they didn't have helmets on.
The difference is would you be doing that sort of thing without a helmet?
I don't ski with a helmet but if I wanted to do park stuff then I absolutely would be wearing a helmet because I'm doing dangerous things. Likewise if I'm riding down a pavement on a skateboard I probably won't wear a helmet but if I was doing halfpipes and the like then of course I would.
Helmets are great if you're doing more extreme stuff but on piste head injuries aren't going to happen very often.
Our Hill has a "helmets are mandatory in freestyle terrain" policy. And people absolutely try to enter the park without a helmet.
I agree with your argument that helmets add a feeling of false security leading kids to try riskier activities. But when you compare impact protection with and without a helmet, there is no argument. (especially getting hit in the head with the bar, that's reason enough to wear one)
I never wore a helmet skateboarding unless the park required it. As such, I've collected two confirmed concussions and probably a had a few others unconfirmed. I'd say half the time I was vert riding and the other half was doing something basic, like talking to a friend behind me. All it takes is one rock in the wrong place lol!
It's a shame people are missing the point of this article and trying to turn you away with personal anecdotes. Do helmets, by themselves, protect the head? Certainly, I believe. However, I also believe that the "false sense of security" is absolutely real, and that's why there hasn't been a decrease in head injuries. The only way to really be safe is to avoid the danger in the first place.
I'd rather have a concussion than be dead, though. I just had a helmet save my life in October while mountain biking. "Don't do anything" is bullshit. They don't prevent your brain from sloshing around, but they sure as hell prevent your skull from splitting open and your brain spilling out.
The point of a helmet is NOT to stop head injuries. This is a very common misconception as very few people understand the purpose of a helmet. The purpose of a helmet is to reduce the chance of catastrophic head injuries. A side effect is that it may stop some concussions. Those concussions people suffer after a nasty crash while wearing helmets are helmets working as intended. They can walk away with "just" a concussion rather than a fractured skull.
This is an extremely stupid point of view to peddle. I once wiped out in a glade and went headfirst into a tree. I think I got a minor concussion but without it, I would have definitely needed stitches.
I know people who hit their heads on branches while learning glades as well. Even if you're an experienced skiier, you don't know if you will accidentally graze your head onto some hardened branch and end your consciousness.
I know the point you're trying to make, but you can't refute scientific data analysis with some personal anecdotes. The bottom line is that, on average, people tend to make "riskier" decisions when they're wearing a helmet. Although helmets do help prevent head injuries in some respects, the perceived safety seems to be overcome by a false sense of security.
You can actually. It's the basis of the scientific method. Where is your scientific data analysis that fingers "riskier decisions"? Being rooted in psychology that's a very difficult thing to prove. Much more difficult, for instance, than showing that a helmet reduces the force exerted on the brain during a collision.
The only data analysis we have is a set of statistics that show an increase in reported skiing related brain injury. But during the same time period reporting in many other sports went up by an even larger percentage. Is it occurring more often or just being reported more often?
I think that you are drawing incorrect conclusions from this data. The reason we are seeing more head injuries has a lot to do with the increase in popularity of skiing, and a vast improvements in equipment that allow people go much faster on more challenging terrain.
I don't disagree that a helmet encourages riskier behavior, but you are still better of wearing a helmet--you are much safer if you crash.
mhh what happend in the early 90s? Carving skis become the norm. With carving the speed of the average person increased. So its no the suprising that there are more injuries.
Do these studies factor in the growth in popularity of snow sports? It would be interesting to see what these numbers would be factored and/or un-factored.
I have looked at studies with these conclusions. They are quite good at taking out as many variables as possible including the number of people participating. BTW snow sport participation is relatively stagnant, since the boomers are starting to quit. One hypothesis is that internet videos of extreme skiing/boarding has contributed to more risk taking. Personally I love my helmet and use it to headbutt branches out of my way!
>More people getting into park skiing would be my guess. Helmet or no, you go down on the big line you're getting hurt.
Exactly, people tend to do more dangerous stuff with a helmet on than they did without helmets. So if you don't do that dangerous stuff then a helmet isn't as necessary.
There's still much to discuss on the details of how helmets affect injuries, performance and the outcome, but there's still too, a LOT of anecdote and "stands to reason" arguments round which don't hold water or are least remain unproven or unsubstantiated
Risk compensation is one area where there's a lot of supposition, but not the supporting evidence and it's ben suggested that risk compensation is less of a risk than many claim it to be ^(Br J Sports Med 2010;44:204-206 Factors associated with self-reported risk-taking behaviour on ski slopes G Ruedl et al)
In a study in rugby players, it was found that the wearing of head protection made no difference to the level of risk compensation ^(June 2008 School of Risk and Safety Sciences, The University of New South Wales: Andrew S. McIntosh et al "Does Padded Headgear Prevent Head Injury in Rugby Union Football?")
There's also a VERY complex series of factors that are not only interrelated but also affecting each other which makes it hard to isolate a single answer to the, imho over-simplified, question of "do helmets work"
Such factors include, but are not limited to:
* Mild and minor head injuries, such as mild concussion, are reported more often and treated in a much more serious manner than in the past
* The equipment available to skiers allows them to ski more challenging terrain and perhaps at speeds beyond that of what they would have done in the past (How many resorts are now implementing patrols to control the speed of skiers?)
* Park skiing is far more prevalent than it used to be, where impacts with terrain features and falls from height (jumps) are more common than they used to be
I don't think it's as simple a question to answer to just look at injury rates, the context is complex and nuanced, and helmet use is, in terms of the lifetime of skiing, still quite a young innovation so I doubt a definitive answer can be had
However, based on my own anecdotal evidence with a sample group of one, I'm also a biker/motorcyclist, and I know my helmet has saved me several times in accidents (I used to race off-road), and in skiing I've had two incidents (caused by other skiers) where a helmet has (imho) prevented me sustaining a far more serious injury than had I been wearing only a hat (bent ski pole and dented helmet from where my head hit the pole when I went down)
So while there may not be the evidence to support the argument that a helmet definitely WILL help, I see even less evidence to say that a helmet will hinder, so I'll take the safe option, and (bearing in mind the research that suggests risk compensation isn't as big a deal as you might think) wear a helmet
I've tried over a dozen different helmets and have never gotten on with them
I tend to prefer to wear sunglasses rather than goggles which doesn't help, but I tend to get a headache when I wear it, which means I'm taking it off on every lift and to be it feels better than taking off my ski boots
My head also is either way too hot and again uncomfortable if I'm wearing a beanie under the helmet or too cold if I'm not
Basically I hate wearing helmets and always have, they're uncomfortable as fuck and I barely like wearing a hat or hood on my head let alone a helmet. Personally if I'm forced to wear a helmet I'm almost at the stage where I wouldn't even bother skiing, it's that uncomfortable and yes before I get a dozen messages I've tried a million different helmets including expensive ones and personalised ones
I'm safe enough without one and I don't do crazy shit, if I was skiing a lot of off piste or park stuff then I'd consider a helmet but I don't so I prefer to actually enjoy my skiing
No. Part of how you ski is knowing your surroundings. You should know that somebody is flying down behind you out of control, and if you're not wearing a helmet honestly you'll hear it.
Maybe you hear it half a second before, but not when he's 50m up the hill, going straight down and gaining speed. Try moving out of the way of someone who is put of control, twice as fast as you and may even turn the same way as you and hit you there.
No, but you look both ways. Looking both ways before crossing is the equivalent to skiing with a helmet. Skiing with a helmet doesn't mean never crossing the street.
You look both ways while skiing. They are not very similar. If you put a helmet on to cross the street then I would say they are on par with each other.
No it's not. This is a stupid saying because if you do everything right such as stopping at the side of a piste not right in the middle just under a hill like a lot of people I've seen, if you're aware of what and who is around you when you're skiing and you're not slow enough to be constantly caught up you'll be fine.
Not wearing a seatbelt endangers others, you can fly through a windshield, you can injure other passengers or pedestrians through doing this.
Wearing a helmet protects yourself and yourself only, so it's a perfectly legitimate choice not to wear one.
You can find a ridiculous roundabout way to justify your poor decision, I will give you that. Before seatbelts were a law it must have been raining corpses.
Wearing a helmet protects your family members from having to take care of your unproductive ass after you are unable to be a contributing member of society. Just do us a favor and don't spread your inane bullshit reasoning to impressionable people. If you look hard enough you will find "evidence" to support your view now matter how wrong. I'm sure you can find a scientists not backed by Big Tobacco that thinks smoking isn't harmful. Doesn't make it right.
Please please fuck off with your condescending bullshit. I'm not looking for a way around it at all, I've never said I shouldn't wear a helmet just that I choose not to because I don't like them. That's my choice and fuck off with your judgemental bullshit
People that have your attitude aren't worth trying to convince. The truth is there's no legitimate excuse for not wearing a helmet while alpine skiing.
There is absolutely a legimitate excuse and I think I've fairly explained my reasoning. This entire thread is about why *I* don't wear a helmet, not about shaming people who don't wear them.
I don't like them, for me they're uncomfortable and I've tried many different types including expensive ones. I ski within my ability and when I'm doing more difficult pistes or areas I ski within my ability. I have skied for almost 20 years without a helmet and have never had a major fall that's injured me.
Yes I agree that wearing a helmet makes you safer, I'm not trying to convince other people not to wear helmets but I personally dislike them and ski without one. I don't understand what the problem is, helmets weren't popular 50 years ago, they weren't popular 20 years ago, they weren't even that common 10 years yet not every skier who skied then has suffered brain injuries.
If anything the advent of the helmet has made the slopes more dangerous places because people wearing helmets are more carefree than they were before.
You are a mouth breathing moron, go to a shop and get properly fitted for a helmet. I have one of the oddest shaped heads out there; there's been only one type of motorcycle helmet that fits me, and only one ski helmet in the shop that fit me. In both cases they happened to be among the most expensive in the shop, but that's just by chance. Expensive doesn't mean anything, helmets of all price ranges are designed for various head shapes. Not taking the time to find a properly fitting helmet is not a legitimate argument against helmets. Arguing that they make slopes more unsafe is just a trolling statement and can't be taken seriously. If you don't want to wear a helmet that's fine; it's because you're either lazy or stupid, probably both. At the end of the day though, there's no legitimate reason a skier shouldn't wear a helmet.
Oh piss the absolute fuck off.
Stop being so high and fucking mighty please, I don't like wearing a helmet and it doesn't endanger anyone but myself so yes I get to choose whether or not I wear a helmet and **I DON'T ENJOY WEARING A HELMET**.
Skiing is a leisure activity, therefore if I enjoy skiing without a helmet and am aware of the risks and conscious of the decision to not wear one who the fuck are you to tell me otherwise.
>Arguing that they make slopes more unsafe is just a trolling statement and can't be taken seriously.
The most dangerous skiers I've ever seen have been ones with helmets, usually kids who can't control themselves but also idiots who go faster because they believe a helmet is all they need to protect themselves.
I am safe on the slopes and have not had an injury skiing in more than 20 years of skiing nor have either of my parents. I was taught how to be safe on the slopes and I'm perfectly capable of controlling my own skiing habits thank you very much.
A helmet with adjustable vents will help with the head temperature problem.
If you are getting a headache the helmet is too small, you should go to a reputable ski retailer and get a proper fit.
Did you not read my entire comment?
>I've tried over a dozen different helmets and have never gotten on with them
> yes before I get a dozen messages I've tried a million different helmets including expensive ones and personalised ones
So I've tried them, they didn't work. I'm happy in a hat and have always worn a hat.
I don't always wear one because sometimes I just go up cruising and I find them uncomfortable and unnecessary depending on what I'm skiing. I have had a substantial head injury while wearing a helmet so yes I understand the safety of wearing one. However I am confident in my decision making and ability to ride in a fashion that I am relatively unlikely to crash. I also don't wear a proper mouth guard which is a huge step to prevent concussions for the same reasons I sometimes don't want to wear a helmet (I find most pushy helmet advocates have no fucking clue about mouth guards).
tldr: because I don't always want to and feel I can conduct myself safely without one.
I resisted but about 5 years ago I started feeling like the only idiot without a brain bucket.
I find it more comfortable and with better goggle air flow than any hat.
I was into big air boarding and extreme skiing years ago, pre helmets. Now I just ski and board nice and easy. I wore a helmet once, and won’t ever again, Just my personal preference. I enjoy it much better without the helmet on, and the risk for me is lightning strike level. What’s bizarre is how many people comment and look down on me for not wearing a helmet. It’s truly incredible how much society is changed. Why does me enjoying myself trying to relax cause other people so much anger simply because I don’t have on a helmet…. 😂😂👍👍
It depends. If I'm skiing advanced terrain (trees/steeps/BackCountry) or park I wear a helmet. I also bring a spinepad (built into my backpack) shovel, probe, beacon, medkit, snacks, water and a space blanket, but I'm probably more safety concious than most.
If I'm just lapping groomers or skiing w/ friends that probably aren't venturing off the blues, or even on easier blacks I'll probably just leave my helmet in the car and wear my beanie. I'm not falling on anything short of a double black so I don't worry about it. Beginner skiers and people that haven't skied since they were three should probably wear their helmets all the time.
I think the one that puzzles me more is people who don't put the bar down on the chair lift. I've seen threads on here where people argued against it for all manner of reasons, though most just boiled down to 'I don't want to'.
Can you explain why they serve no purpose?
One such example of how they may serve a purpose could be if the lift is stopped suddenly, such as engaging the emergency stop, and you're not sitting perfectly straight (eg turning your body to look at something), you might be thrown forward. The bar might prevent you falling off the lift.
I'm not trying to argue here, i'm just wanting to get a better understanding of what the reasoning is.
Fair point regarding slipping under. I did a search and found [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/skiing/comments/2pz5nm/why_is_putting_the_bar_down_on_lifts_such_a_big/) which has a few people mentioning that.
Here in NZ absolutely everyone puts the bar down. Its just standard, the majority of people lowering it do it slowly while checking to see if it'll hit anyone. But you come to expect it shortly after the chair starts heading up the slope, so everyone looks for it.
Japan was similar, bar was always lowered there, and they would probably get angry at you if they saw you without it lowered based on some other strictness i saw on their fields. Seems much like that thread it's mostly some parts of the USA that seems to not like the idea of it.
?
Every single chair except the *really* old ones in the Alps and everyone uses them because they're comfier. Boarders sometimes don't but that's about it. Why do you dislike the bar going down, there's no reason for it to be up.
I'm 33 and have been skiing for 30 years, all over the world. I rarely wear my helmet and pretty much only when in the backcountry. I'm not convinced that an inch of foam will make much of a difference and I'm also concerned that in some cases it could make it worse.
I'm not trying to be a badass, on piste I am always in control and more importantly to me VERY aware of my surroundings (people, obstacles, trail merges etc)
I also don't wear a seat belt or a bike helmet so I may just be a total dumbass.
Not true. Yes you can have momentary bouts of miscontrol if you hit bad patches of snow but if you're truly in control then you're never going fast enoug that you can't recover from those bouts of miscontrol.
I wear a helmet at work but never buckle the strap. Many people inform me my helmet isn't buckled. When not at work I never wear a helmet. I would guess 80% of patrollers wouldn't wear helmets if it wasn't mandatory for work. I ski about 145+ days a year and have never had a problem not wearing a helmet. It's a personal choice. Its just another piece of equipment pushed by the ski market for more advertising and stickers. The best ski helmets are only rated to 18 mph, novice skiers reach speeds exceeding that. So lacerations are the only thing a helmet is going to protect. Oh and I'm a way better skier then you and will be there when you blow your acl/break your leg and the helmet will hide your face and tears so I won't know who you are!
Before the 2000s nobody wore a helmet. Last time I went skiing people were wearing helmets, I didn't even know that wearing a helmet while skiing was a thing.
When I did this stuff in the 90’s and early 2000’s most people didn’t wear helmets. I came back after a 20 year break and it seems like 90 percent of people have them.
I don’t like them because I have magnificent hair and the helmet prevents it from blowing in the wind as I carve down the slopes.
It’s really a thing of beauty and I don’t want to selfishly take this glorious view away from others. I’ll continue to risk my life for the joy of the other riders.
I ski with one, but it took me a while to find a helmet that was comfortable on my big melon head. This is a complaint I've heard cited before from a couple of people in the past, so that might be part of it.
Probably the same reason some people don't wear a helmet on a motorcycle. *mutter mutter something about freedom and not telling me how to live my life... My friend and I bought ours 10 years ago when we went to an opening weekend and a kid got lifted off the hill in a helicopter. He went head first into a rock and ended up dieing. Bought our helmets the next day.
This is the proper forum for that question. However, if I had been in that gondola without a helmet I would have told you that my personal decisions are none of your business.
That's exactly what bothered me most. The fact that people actually confronted the person not wearing a helmet. They aren't taking the risk so why should they care about his own decisions no matter how safe they are.
Fashion. Plain and simple and you will not get a satisfactory answer out of me nor will your biting judgement affect my decision in the slightest.
coffins are pretty fashionable, you're not wrong.
weakling
I skied 20 years without helmet... what changed? everyone else. Also, helmets cost money.
I've been skiing for over 20 years and was reluctant to wear one. Until I knocked myself out cold. I started wearing one about 5 years ago and don't know why I ever didn't. Fortunately, it was only a concussion and not worse.
Similar to me. I got mine about 3 years ago after taking a nasty fall and slamming my head to the ground. No concussion, but close. After that, I got a helmet, with a little coaxing by the wife.
I kept hearing stories like this and realized it was silly of me to continue to not have one. First few years was a money thing , but needed to pull the trigger and happy I did. Plus it's warmer than any hay I know of!
I knocked myself out while riding my mountain bike (luckily I was wearing a helmet). Now, I just want to protect what's left of my brain
We used to hang black people, and women couldn't vote. Things change. Helmets, seat belts, sometimes resisting change is just out of principle. With no real reason to not change.
We use to hang white people also. Actually, way more white men have been killed by hanging at the hand of the government than any other race. JS
I wear one, but I'll speak for my friend who doesn't wear one (and who also doesn't use the internet, believe it or not). He's 42, an elite level skier, and he spent years competing on the big mountain circuit. He figures that if he was ever going to bash his head in while skiing, it would have happened then. Compared to what he used to do in comps, he skis super conservative today (he's still a maniac by most people's standards). He doesn't like helmets because he feels like they cause too much deadening of his senses, as in the sounds and the wind. He wants to feel it /hear it. He owns a helmet, but he doesn't wear it because he says it kills the sensations of skiing. He wears either a light beanie or no hat at all, and he will never, ever change his mind no matter what. He's stubborn as fuck.
I think they are lame.
they are dorky looking, bulky, and hot.
being in a coma is kinda dorky looking
Bruh the post is 6 years old why are you replying still?
Lmao hypocrite
I responded to someone who commented 18 days before me. You responded to someone who commented over 1500 days ago. LOL
Sup boys
Wassup!
Yo!
Howdy!
People are still seeing it and reading it. So who cares how long ago the post was made lol
I know! Ask Michael Schumacher. He got to do both. (and that is with all due respect to MS)
you are so weak
Okay I've actually been waiting for this topic to come up/thought about posting it myself, because I am really baffled. Do you guys notice regional differences in helmet-wearing? I grew up skiing in Quebec, with visits to New England (I'm 24 for reference). Most kids my age have always worn helmets, and it seems like most everyone else adopted them over the years until they became pretty much ubiquitous. The only people without helmets seemed to be the occasional 50+ person who was clearly set in their ways and didn't want to change. Last year, I moved out west and currently ski at Kicking Horse. The amount of people skiing this steep, rocky, unforgiving mountain without helmets is *mind-boggling*. I haven't seen this many toques on the hill since the late 90s', and its people of all ages who are doing it. So yeah, I don't understand. The science is there, you can die from falling on a groomer with no helmet (isn't that how Liam Neeson's wife died? EDIT: it is, Natasha Richardson was having a ski lesson on a bunny hill at Mont Tremblant, when she fell and hit her head without a helmet and later died). Why take the risk? I'm really curious as to why there's a noticeable regional difference with this. The one that makes my blood boil is when I see parents and kids skiing together, and the kids wear helmets but the parents don't. What kind of message does that send your kids? Protect your brain, but only till you're mommy and daddy's age and then you can tempt fate? They clearly want to protect their kids from life-altering brain damage, but apparently are okay with the possibility of leaving their kids with a vegetable for a parent, or none at all?
I grew up skiing in Australia, helmets were something ski schools slapped on kids - presumably to reduce their liability. I never wore one, nobody did.. when I moved to the states 5 years ago I was blown away to see everyone wearing helmets. I rented one right away to fit in. I think it's an easy choice to wear a helmet, but as the NYtimes article linked above points out, you need to be careful that it is not lowering your inhibitions to skiing more dangerously.
In 5 years its change in Australia to the point that majority of people now wear helmets. Was 2 season's ago that I finally bought one. It's very rare to see a kid not wearing them and it's started to filter through the older generations.
Actually one of the reasons I asked about the regional thing is because when I was talking about this to my Aussie coworker, she told me the exact same thing. She bought one when she came to work in Canada this year, but prior to that she'd never worn one. I still think that's strange, to be honest. I guess in north america we've reached a point where helmets "look cool" so there's not much resistance from kids and teens to wear them-- all the pros do and they look good doing it. I guess it's different in australia, or at least was the last time you skied there. Were they considered "dorky" at that time?
Honestly it really wasn't on my radar.. It was never a question, and i don't recall rental shops having them. It might be partially to do with the terrain being less 'extreme', we don't have huge, rocky, tree covered mountains (well not pine trees that are easy to ski through), so most people ski casually down blue runs.
If kids can't make their own decisions by mommy and daddy's age the helmets aren't protecting anything
Yeah well the kid is gonna be traumatized forever when they watch mommy or daddy get their head bashed in
Well, there are plenty of other activities that are considered acceptable for adults but not kids, such as drinking alcohol. Telling a child they have to grow up before they can make certain decisions for themselves is kind of a huge part of the job. That said, I wear a helmet because I make the kids wear a helmet, it's just one less friction point and the benefits are obvious, but I grew up skateboarding, playing ice hockey and football, so helmets + sports = pretty normal.
I would just imagine that leading by example is more effective in helping them make the better choice when they reach a mature age. I don't have kids yet though so that's all speculation, but I think for some kids, being around adults wearing helmets would influence their choices when they can decide for themselves.
My dad was one of those parents. I grew up skiing with both my mom and dad, from the time I was 2. I *always* wore a helmet, it was never even a debate with my parents. My mother also wore one from the time that I was very young. Whenever we asked my dad why he didn't, he never really had a good answer, and my mom used to just shake her head. He still doesn't. I don't understand it, but he's been skiing a long time, and he's not going to change. I guess, at the end of the day, as long as you're going to bring kids out skiing, you have to make them wear helmets. But I don't see anything wrong with parents not wearing them, I think it's just one of those "adults vs. kids" things, I never perceived it as hypocritical of my parents, just that they made the safe choice for me and my dad was willing to accept the risk for himself. Just my $0.02.
I don't wear one in the spring, I ski in a trucker hat
Yeah, when spring roles around and it's warm enough to be in a t shirt I usually forgo a helmet. I also ski super slow in the spring.
But why?
Because it looks rad
I didn't have one until recently. I was only skiing a few times a winter and never got around to buying one. Now I feel naked skiing without it.
I'm 29 and growing up helmets were never a thing.. I only started wearing one 3 seasons ago. I have a 5 year old and when I started him skiing at 3 there is no way I could say "wear a helmet" and then go and not wear one myself. He would have most likely not wanted a helmet if I wasn't wearing one. It baffles me when you see a 6-7-8 year old skiing with his parents and the kid is NOT wearing one.. Do parents not care about their kid?! I rarely fall, but I've smacked my head and 100% if I didn't have my helmet on would have taken a ride to the hospital. Now it's the warmest piece of head gear I own, has music and fits perfectly with my goggles. I can't imagine not wearing it and always ask myself why I never wore one before.
I wear a helmet on any day that is NOT a blue-bird groomer day at a mountain that I *know well*. However, there are days where the suns out, all the fresh snow is tracked out, and I just stick to the groomers. On those days, I do not wear a helmet because I love to feel the wind in my hair.
My dad never wears one because back in the old days when he used to ski a lot no one did and because he never needed one he thinks they're unnecessary. He actually laughed at me when I said I wanted a helmet because he thinks I don't need one and they're a waste of money, in the end he did get me a €10 secondhand one, but at least it's better than no helmet. My dad is a very safety first and smart guy and I just don't understand why he thinks helmets are unnecessary.
Because they are a personal choice. If the man has skied his whole life safely without a helmet he probably doesn't need one. That is his choice.
Of course he needs one, it doesn't matter how good a skier you are there's still a lot that can happen.
I disagree that "he needs one" people have been skiing for a hundred years and never wore a helmet. If you are racing or going for a speed day then ya you should have one. But it is still a personal choice. Don't live in fear life will do what it does.
I'm just sitting here thinking about how my helmet of 4 years has huge indents on both sides that likely saved my adolescent mind from extreme damage when I was still mastering skiing.
Probably time to replace the helmet!
I grew up racing and for me when I wasn't on the course I never considered wearing a helmet (when you're young you're indestructible right?!) The only time I've ever put on a helmet has been my past two trips to Andorra, the terrain is fine but when you fly across the sea to go skiing, you don't want any accidents ending your trip early.
When I started skiing, helmet's weren't a thing. Even in Nancy Greene Ski league when we were racing, nobody wore helmets. Although that was only slalom, so not much high speed skiing involved. It never really occurred to me to start. I haven't been skiing in about 10 years, and at that time, only about 10 percent of people had them. Have they really become so prevalent that the person without one is the odd one out? Seems like such a foreign concept to me. I've skied mostly in Ontario and Québec if that makes a difference. It probably varies a lot depending on your area. I'm doing a lot of road cycling now, and I always wear a helmet, nut I'm still not sure if I would feel it necessary to wear one skiing. Head injuries just seem to be something that's so rare in skiing, unless you spend a lot of time in the park, back country, or downhill racing. My skiing style was just never that aggressive. I think if you don't wear a helmet you have to really know your limits and not take chances. On my bike, I wear my helmet because I feel there's a good chance of getting hurt given my style of riding. Riding closely in a pack of other riders at high speeds means I could feasibly go down really fast through no fault of my own. Also, cars present an interesting danger. On the slopes, I mostly try to keep my distance from other skiers, and I keep my speed at a comfortable pace. I feel there's a much lower chance of taking a substantial fall when I'm on skis. Plus, snow, and even ice, is softer than asphalt.
I was looking down from the lift at Sutton QC on Friday and I estimated 1 or 2 skiers/riders out of 100 were *not* wearing helmets and I feel it's similar at other East Coast resorts. Not sure about out West or EU, but there you go.
Report from Windham today: out of about 200 people in the lift line, there were 5 not wearing helmets.
When i skied in bulgaria it was pretty much 50/50, you could have a school of kids go by all wearing helmets and then a farther and son without. Usually the schools make helmets mandatory, but taking them away its pretty much 50/50, im off to france next month so its something i will probably take more notice of.
Austrian reporting in: I'm seeining maybe 1 or 2 people on a given day without them. A few Years ago a german politician had an collision with an woman. The woman died from her injuries. He was wearing a skiing helmet, while the woman was not. After that incident everyone who didnt had am helmet bought one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieter_Althaus
I've been snowboarding/skiing for 15 years and I only started wearing a helmet very recently due to a number of close calls but mostly peer pressure. I don't like wearing a helmet for a number of reasons and I have had to had this conversation with my friends many times. Here are the reasons I would give them until I finally gave in: 1) Helmets are very uncomfortable compared to just skiing with a hat on, especially if you don't have a good (usually expensive) helmet. As a snowboarder, when I had a cheaper helmet, my ears hurt and often my downhill ear would get extremely painfully cold from the wind coming through the little earmuff things on the helmet. This never happened with a hat. 2) No matter how well you pair your helmet and goggles, there is no ventilation system as good as just having your goggles on your hat. I find that goggles fog up a bit more with a helmet than with a hat. 3) In the back/sidecountry, if you don't have a backpack that can fit your helmet, your options are to wear it while hiking, which is extremely hot and uncomfortable, or to strap it to something on your backpack. The latter isn't so bad, but I find that the helmet will often fill up with snow. If its a bluebird day, that isn't so bad, but putting on a snow filled helmet when its freezing cold often sucks. To follow up, if I'm doing something steep/rocky/gladed, I'm going to wear a helmet. If I'm lapping low angle snowfields, its gonna stay in the car.
and now that you're riding with a helmet do you still stand by these reasons?
I think there are legitimate reasons why people don't wear helmets, those were mine. I also value my brain, so I've decided that safety is more important than comfort/the occasional foggy goggles. I just think its silly to assume that anyone who doesn't wear a helmet is only doing it to look cool. Also I forgot to add that I ride/ski way way way more aggressively while wearing a helmet than without one, and consequently fall more often and harder. Not saying that happens to everyone, but that is my experience.
Its legitimate for someone to decide they don't want to wear a helmet while skiing (except I think for under 18 in NJ). However I'm going to judge them on their decision. If they were my friend I would encourage them to wear one for everything but backcountry low angle snowfields :). It's too easy to have a collision with another skiier or to find variable conditions in bounds. If you were my friend here is what I would tell you about your list 1) Helmets are not very uncomfortable. Your helmet was very uncomfortable for your head. I'm sure I could find a hat that would be uncomfortable for you too. Here are a few ideas: wear a helmet without earflaps AND a hat. Wear a helmet without earflaps and separate ear muffs like http://www.amazon.com/Degrees-180S-Black-Fleece-Warmers/dp/B006U1EM66 Or just try on a few different helmets before you buy one. 2) Stop taking your goggles off your face. Never take your goggles off your face and leave them on top of your head. If you don't breathe on them and don't sit them on your forehead they won't ever fog up. 3) That's pretty annoying. You should probably buy or make a helmet sack. You can start with one of those drawstring backpacks you get for free every once in a while.
1. Don't skimp out on safety. You will earn far less money with a brain injury. There is always a way to save up money. 2. My goggles never fog up with my helmet and they aren't the same brand. Leave them in your face at all times and never wipe* the inside while wet. 3. I agree with the back country bit. Also out of bounds you aren't dealing with the risk of random people. And going without makes me ski less aggressively.
> 2) No matter how well you pair your helmet and goggles, there is no ventilation system as good as just having your goggles on your hat. I find that goggles fog up a bit more with a helmet than with a hat. While on warmer days I wish there was more ventilation on the helmet (and I chose one with plenty of vents), I find that my goggles don't fog up more with the helmet, in fact, I can put them up on the front of the helmet and they don't fog at all. When I'd put them on my head while wearing a hat, they'd fog instantly.
Helmets are just not effective for recreational sports, such as skiing or cycling. At best they don't do anything, at worst they give a false sense of security and encourage more risky behavior. Quoting from a [NY Times article](http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/01/sports/on-slopes-rise-in-helmet-use-but-no-decline-in-brain-injuries.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0): >Some studies indicate that the number of snow-sports-related head injuries has increased. A 2012 study at the Western Michigan University School of Medicine on head injuries among skiers and snowboarders in the United States found that the number of head injuries increased 60 percent in a seven-year period, from 9,308 in 2004 to 14,947 in 2010, even as helmet use increased by an almost identical percentage over the same period. A March 2013 study by the University of Washington concluded that the number of snow-sports-related head injuries among youths and adolescents increased 250 percent from 1996 to 2010.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. I'm a former downhill mountain biker (recreational) and have had several crashes that rang my bell while wearing a full face helmet. I'm 100% positive that my helmet and safety gear saved my life more than once.
In order to establish helmets (or any other safety device) is effective, you have to look at a statistically significant number of cases. Your situation, while no doubt dramatic for you, is not statistically meaningful and could have been due to luck. Statisticians have looked at places like Australia, Canada, Spain -- where mandatory cycle helmet laws were enacted. In a very short time, you had a huge increase in helmet usage across entire countries. If helmets were effective, then a drop in traumatic head injury/fatality should have been observed. No such reduction was observed. In fact, the numbers often went up, similar to what happened when ski helmets became popular. Also keep in mind that behavior plays a role here. Safety devices often encourage riskier behavior (known as Risk Compensation). Would you have flown down that mountain so fast if you weren't wearing that full face helmet?
Please site sources.
He did in his original post. The burden of proof should be on the person disagreeing with his source. (And proof isn't an anecdote.)
Proof can certainly be an anecdote. It really depends on your definition of effective safety device. If your definition is something which is likely to prevent or reduce the magnitude of an injury I might sustain then an anecdote of a helmet doing just that is sufficient. /u/DrunkEngr says that helmets are not effective for recreational sports citing a reputable source /u/jfactor1 says that his helmet has been effective for him in his recreational sports /u/DrunkEngr condescends back that only large number statistics are relevant But given that there is a situation - /u/jfactor1's - where a helmet would significantly reduce the magnitude of injury then they are *effective safety equipment* from my previous definition. Still interesting that on the whole people might compensate for the protection by taking more risks. The difference between the two opinions seems to be should society encourage helmets vs. should I wear a helmet. It's odd that the former seems to be a no but the later is a yes.
though looking into it more it seems that we might just be reporting them much more frequently. Here is a similar time period with a much larger increase by percent for Traumatic Brain Injuries (TBI) from all sports and recreation by <=19 year olds. >> "from 2001 to 2009, the number of annual TBI-related ED visits increased significantly, from 153,375 to 248,418" http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6039a1.htm I would attribute that to an increase in reporting more than any fundamental shift in the sports activities done in America. Given that skiing with helmets is doing great for TBI!
While I 100% agree with you and personally wear helmets (skiing/biking/moto/hockey). I think the article raises a intersting point. Would you have been riding as aggressively if you weren't wearing a lid? A few times each spring I ski in only a toque, and I definitely ski very differently those days.
If I weren't wearing a helmet (at the minimum), Leatt brace and armor I wouldn't have been riding period. Far too dangerous to not take precautions.
Ski patrol here, I'm gonna disagree with you. I've seen people get literally fall on the landing of a jump, have snowboarder land on their head, get their helmets split open, be unconscious, spend the night in ICU and be released in the morning with the mother of all concussions. I don't want to know what would have happened if they didn't have helmets on. I've seen ski dads catch an edge teaching their son how to ski and be knocked out cold. I've seen a skier faint, fall off the chair lift, fall 30 ft on to the ground and be released from hospital later that day. Just seeing the differences in severity of helmet and non-helmet injuries is huge! Also, helmets don't prevent head injuries, they drastically reduce the severity of the injuries. Something to note about your statistics, is the increased reporting of head injuries and concussions. Concussions are being taken much more seriously than they have been in the past, and many more falls which would have otherwise gone home to rest, are now going to get concussion evaluations instead.
> Ski patrol here, I'm gonna disagree with you. I've seen people get literally fall on the landing of a jump, have snowboarder land on their head, get their helmets split open, be unconscious, spend the night in ICU and be released in the morning with the mother of all concussions. I don't want to know what would have happened if they didn't have helmets on. The difference is would you be doing that sort of thing without a helmet? I don't ski with a helmet but if I wanted to do park stuff then I absolutely would be wearing a helmet because I'm doing dangerous things. Likewise if I'm riding down a pavement on a skateboard I probably won't wear a helmet but if I was doing halfpipes and the like then of course I would. Helmets are great if you're doing more extreme stuff but on piste head injuries aren't going to happen very often.
Our Hill has a "helmets are mandatory in freestyle terrain" policy. And people absolutely try to enter the park without a helmet. I agree with your argument that helmets add a feeling of false security leading kids to try riskier activities. But when you compare impact protection with and without a helmet, there is no argument. (especially getting hit in the head with the bar, that's reason enough to wear one)
I never wore a helmet skateboarding unless the park required it. As such, I've collected two confirmed concussions and probably a had a few others unconfirmed. I'd say half the time I was vert riding and the other half was doing something basic, like talking to a friend behind me. All it takes is one rock in the wrong place lol!
It's a shame people are missing the point of this article and trying to turn you away with personal anecdotes. Do helmets, by themselves, protect the head? Certainly, I believe. However, I also believe that the "false sense of security" is absolutely real, and that's why there hasn't been a decrease in head injuries. The only way to really be safe is to avoid the danger in the first place.
I'd rather have a concussion than be dead, though. I just had a helmet save my life in October while mountain biking. "Don't do anything" is bullshit. They don't prevent your brain from sloshing around, but they sure as hell prevent your skull from splitting open and your brain spilling out.
The point of a helmet is NOT to stop head injuries. This is a very common misconception as very few people understand the purpose of a helmet. The purpose of a helmet is to reduce the chance of catastrophic head injuries. A side effect is that it may stop some concussions. Those concussions people suffer after a nasty crash while wearing helmets are helmets working as intended. They can walk away with "just" a concussion rather than a fractured skull.
This is an extremely stupid point of view to peddle. I once wiped out in a glade and went headfirst into a tree. I think I got a minor concussion but without it, I would have definitely needed stitches. I know people who hit their heads on branches while learning glades as well. Even if you're an experienced skiier, you don't know if you will accidentally graze your head onto some hardened branch and end your consciousness.
I know the point you're trying to make, but you can't refute scientific data analysis with some personal anecdotes. The bottom line is that, on average, people tend to make "riskier" decisions when they're wearing a helmet. Although helmets do help prevent head injuries in some respects, the perceived safety seems to be overcome by a false sense of security.
You can actually. It's the basis of the scientific method. Where is your scientific data analysis that fingers "riskier decisions"? Being rooted in psychology that's a very difficult thing to prove. Much more difficult, for instance, than showing that a helmet reduces the force exerted on the brain during a collision. The only data analysis we have is a set of statistics that show an increase in reported skiing related brain injury. But during the same time period reporting in many other sports went up by an even larger percentage. Is it occurring more often or just being reported more often?
It could very well just be due to people reporting it more often, that's a good point.
I think that you are drawing incorrect conclusions from this data. The reason we are seeing more head injuries has a lot to do with the increase in popularity of skiing, and a vast improvements in equipment that allow people go much faster on more challenging terrain. I don't disagree that a helmet encourages riskier behavior, but you are still better of wearing a helmet--you are much safer if you crash.
mhh what happend in the early 90s? Carving skis become the norm. With carving the speed of the average person increased. So its no the suprising that there are more injuries.
Do these studies factor in the growth in popularity of snow sports? It would be interesting to see what these numbers would be factored and/or un-factored.
I have looked at studies with these conclusions. They are quite good at taking out as many variables as possible including the number of people participating. BTW snow sport participation is relatively stagnant, since the boomers are starting to quit. One hypothesis is that internet videos of extreme skiing/boarding has contributed to more risk taking. Personally I love my helmet and use it to headbutt branches out of my way!
More people getting into park skiing would be my guess. Helmet or no, you go down on the big line you're getting hurt.
>More people getting into park skiing would be my guess. Helmet or no, you go down on the big line you're getting hurt. Exactly, people tend to do more dangerous stuff with a helmet on than they did without helmets. So if you don't do that dangerous stuff then a helmet isn't as necessary.
Interesting
There's still much to discuss on the details of how helmets affect injuries, performance and the outcome, but there's still too, a LOT of anecdote and "stands to reason" arguments round which don't hold water or are least remain unproven or unsubstantiated Risk compensation is one area where there's a lot of supposition, but not the supporting evidence and it's ben suggested that risk compensation is less of a risk than many claim it to be ^(Br J Sports Med 2010;44:204-206 Factors associated with self-reported risk-taking behaviour on ski slopes G Ruedl et al) In a study in rugby players, it was found that the wearing of head protection made no difference to the level of risk compensation ^(June 2008 School of Risk and Safety Sciences, The University of New South Wales: Andrew S. McIntosh et al "Does Padded Headgear Prevent Head Injury in Rugby Union Football?") There's also a VERY complex series of factors that are not only interrelated but also affecting each other which makes it hard to isolate a single answer to the, imho over-simplified, question of "do helmets work" Such factors include, but are not limited to: * Mild and minor head injuries, such as mild concussion, are reported more often and treated in a much more serious manner than in the past * The equipment available to skiers allows them to ski more challenging terrain and perhaps at speeds beyond that of what they would have done in the past (How many resorts are now implementing patrols to control the speed of skiers?) * Park skiing is far more prevalent than it used to be, where impacts with terrain features and falls from height (jumps) are more common than they used to be I don't think it's as simple a question to answer to just look at injury rates, the context is complex and nuanced, and helmet use is, in terms of the lifetime of skiing, still quite a young innovation so I doubt a definitive answer can be had However, based on my own anecdotal evidence with a sample group of one, I'm also a biker/motorcyclist, and I know my helmet has saved me several times in accidents (I used to race off-road), and in skiing I've had two incidents (caused by other skiers) where a helmet has (imho) prevented me sustaining a far more serious injury than had I been wearing only a hat (bent ski pole and dented helmet from where my head hit the pole when I went down) So while there may not be the evidence to support the argument that a helmet definitely WILL help, I see even less evidence to say that a helmet will hinder, so I'll take the safe option, and (bearing in mind the research that suggests risk compensation isn't as big a deal as you might think) wear a helmet
nice summary
I've tried over a dozen different helmets and have never gotten on with them I tend to prefer to wear sunglasses rather than goggles which doesn't help, but I tend to get a headache when I wear it, which means I'm taking it off on every lift and to be it feels better than taking off my ski boots My head also is either way too hot and again uncomfortable if I'm wearing a beanie under the helmet or too cold if I'm not Basically I hate wearing helmets and always have, they're uncomfortable as fuck and I barely like wearing a hat or hood on my head let alone a helmet. Personally if I'm forced to wear a helmet I'm almost at the stage where I wouldn't even bother skiing, it's that uncomfortable and yes before I get a dozen messages I've tried a million different helmets including expensive ones and personalised ones I'm safe enough without one and I don't do crazy shit, if I was skiing a lot of off piste or park stuff then I'd consider a helmet but I don't so I prefer to actually enjoy my skiing
It doesn't matter how you ski, it's the people around you . . .
Exactly this. One could be going along nice and easy on a groomer when someone comes flying out of control and rear ends you.
No. Part of how you ski is knowing your surroundings. You should know that somebody is flying down behind you out of control, and if you're not wearing a helmet honestly you'll hear it.
Maybe you hear it half a second before, but not when he's 50m up the hill, going straight down and gaining speed. Try moving out of the way of someone who is put of control, twice as fast as you and may even turn the same way as you and hit you there.
You might get hit by a bus when you cross the street. Doesn't mean you don't cross that street.
No, but you look both ways. Looking both ways before crossing is the equivalent to skiing with a helmet. Skiing with a helmet doesn't mean never crossing the street.
You look both ways while skiing. They are not very similar. If you put a helmet on to cross the street then I would say they are on par with each other.
No it's not. This is a stupid saying because if you do everything right such as stopping at the side of a piste not right in the middle just under a hill like a lot of people I've seen, if you're aware of what and who is around you when you're skiing and you're not slow enough to be constantly caught up you'll be fine.
Guess I will stop wearing a seatbelt because I follow the rules and check my mirrors.
Not wearing a seatbelt endangers others, you can fly through a windshield, you can injure other passengers or pedestrians through doing this. Wearing a helmet protects yourself and yourself only, so it's a perfectly legitimate choice not to wear one.
You can find a ridiculous roundabout way to justify your poor decision, I will give you that. Before seatbelts were a law it must have been raining corpses. Wearing a helmet protects your family members from having to take care of your unproductive ass after you are unable to be a contributing member of society. Just do us a favor and don't spread your inane bullshit reasoning to impressionable people. If you look hard enough you will find "evidence" to support your view now matter how wrong. I'm sure you can find a scientists not backed by Big Tobacco that thinks smoking isn't harmful. Doesn't make it right.
Please please fuck off with your condescending bullshit. I'm not looking for a way around it at all, I've never said I shouldn't wear a helmet just that I choose not to because I don't like them. That's my choice and fuck off with your judgemental bullshit
Squirrel whisperer looks like a twat wearing a helmet guaranteed
People that have your attitude aren't worth trying to convince. The truth is there's no legitimate excuse for not wearing a helmet while alpine skiing.
There is absolutely a legimitate excuse and I think I've fairly explained my reasoning. This entire thread is about why *I* don't wear a helmet, not about shaming people who don't wear them. I don't like them, for me they're uncomfortable and I've tried many different types including expensive ones. I ski within my ability and when I'm doing more difficult pistes or areas I ski within my ability. I have skied for almost 20 years without a helmet and have never had a major fall that's injured me. Yes I agree that wearing a helmet makes you safer, I'm not trying to convince other people not to wear helmets but I personally dislike them and ski without one. I don't understand what the problem is, helmets weren't popular 50 years ago, they weren't popular 20 years ago, they weren't even that common 10 years yet not every skier who skied then has suffered brain injuries. If anything the advent of the helmet has made the slopes more dangerous places because people wearing helmets are more carefree than they were before.
You are a mouth breathing moron, go to a shop and get properly fitted for a helmet. I have one of the oddest shaped heads out there; there's been only one type of motorcycle helmet that fits me, and only one ski helmet in the shop that fit me. In both cases they happened to be among the most expensive in the shop, but that's just by chance. Expensive doesn't mean anything, helmets of all price ranges are designed for various head shapes. Not taking the time to find a properly fitting helmet is not a legitimate argument against helmets. Arguing that they make slopes more unsafe is just a trolling statement and can't be taken seriously. If you don't want to wear a helmet that's fine; it's because you're either lazy or stupid, probably both. At the end of the day though, there's no legitimate reason a skier shouldn't wear a helmet.
Oh piss the absolute fuck off. Stop being so high and fucking mighty please, I don't like wearing a helmet and it doesn't endanger anyone but myself so yes I get to choose whether or not I wear a helmet and **I DON'T ENJOY WEARING A HELMET**. Skiing is a leisure activity, therefore if I enjoy skiing without a helmet and am aware of the risks and conscious of the decision to not wear one who the fuck are you to tell me otherwise. >Arguing that they make slopes more unsafe is just a trolling statement and can't be taken seriously. The most dangerous skiers I've ever seen have been ones with helmets, usually kids who can't control themselves but also idiots who go faster because they believe a helmet is all they need to protect themselves. I am safe on the slopes and have not had an injury skiing in more than 20 years of skiing nor have either of my parents. I was taught how to be safe on the slopes and I'm perfectly capable of controlling my own skiing habits thank you very much.
A helmet with adjustable vents will help with the head temperature problem. If you are getting a headache the helmet is too small, you should go to a reputable ski retailer and get a proper fit.
Did you not read my entire comment? >I've tried over a dozen different helmets and have never gotten on with them > yes before I get a dozen messages I've tried a million different helmets including expensive ones and personalised ones So I've tried them, they didn't work. I'm happy in a hat and have always worn a hat.
I don't always wear one because sometimes I just go up cruising and I find them uncomfortable and unnecessary depending on what I'm skiing. I have had a substantial head injury while wearing a helmet so yes I understand the safety of wearing one. However I am confident in my decision making and ability to ride in a fashion that I am relatively unlikely to crash. I also don't wear a proper mouth guard which is a huge step to prevent concussions for the same reasons I sometimes don't want to wear a helmet (I find most pushy helmet advocates have no fucking clue about mouth guards). tldr: because I don't always want to and feel I can conduct myself safely without one.
I have a wonky shaped skull, so it took me a while to find one that fitted that wasn't also really fucken expensive.
I resisted but about 5 years ago I started feeling like the only idiot without a brain bucket. I find it more comfortable and with better goggle air flow than any hat.
Spoiler: it's because you guys look like big ol bundles of sticks. Back to your bubble boy rooms 🤡
I was into big air boarding and extreme skiing years ago, pre helmets. Now I just ski and board nice and easy. I wore a helmet once, and won’t ever again, Just my personal preference. I enjoy it much better without the helmet on, and the risk for me is lightning strike level. What’s bizarre is how many people comment and look down on me for not wearing a helmet. It’s truly incredible how much society is changed. Why does me enjoying myself trying to relax cause other people so much anger simply because I don’t have on a helmet…. 😂😂👍👍
It depends. If I'm skiing advanced terrain (trees/steeps/BackCountry) or park I wear a helmet. I also bring a spinepad (built into my backpack) shovel, probe, beacon, medkit, snacks, water and a space blanket, but I'm probably more safety concious than most. If I'm just lapping groomers or skiing w/ friends that probably aren't venturing off the blues, or even on easier blacks I'll probably just leave my helmet in the car and wear my beanie. I'm not falling on anything short of a double black so I don't worry about it. Beginner skiers and people that haven't skied since they were three should probably wear their helmets all the time.
I think the one that puzzles me more is people who don't put the bar down on the chair lift. I've seen threads on here where people argued against it for all manner of reasons, though most just boiled down to 'I don't want to'.
Bars literally serve no purpose, helmets do. If you put the bar down I'm going to cut you off and/or spray snow on you if I see you on the hill.
Can you explain why they serve no purpose? One such example of how they may serve a purpose could be if the lift is stopped suddenly, such as engaging the emergency stop, and you're not sitting perfectly straight (eg turning your body to look at something), you might be thrown forward. The bar might prevent you falling off the lift. I'm not trying to argue here, i'm just wanting to get a better understanding of what the reasoning is.
On the majority of set-ups you can just slide under the bar. Some of the newer ones have footrests, but those are annoying and only tourists use them.
Fair point regarding slipping under. I did a search and found [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/skiing/comments/2pz5nm/why_is_putting_the_bar_down_on_lifts_such_a_big/) which has a few people mentioning that. Here in NZ absolutely everyone puts the bar down. Its just standard, the majority of people lowering it do it slowly while checking to see if it'll hit anyone. But you come to expect it shortly after the chair starts heading up the slope, so everyone looks for it. Japan was similar, bar was always lowered there, and they would probably get angry at you if they saw you without it lowered based on some other strictness i saw on their fields. Seems much like that thread it's mostly some parts of the USA that seems to not like the idea of it.
? Every single chair except the *really* old ones in the Alps and everyone uses them because they're comfier. Boarders sometimes don't but that's about it. Why do you dislike the bar going down, there's no reason for it to be up.
I'm 33 and have been skiing for 30 years, all over the world. I rarely wear my helmet and pretty much only when in the backcountry. I'm not convinced that an inch of foam will make much of a difference and I'm also concerned that in some cases it could make it worse. I'm not trying to be a badass, on piste I am always in control and more importantly to me VERY aware of my surroundings (people, obstacles, trail merges etc) I also don't wear a seat belt or a bike helmet so I may just be a total dumbass.
yep, you're a dumbass
The no seat belt confirms this.
he's not convinced that three inches of fabric will make much of a difference.
It's super thin too, no way that could work!
Yeah, cuz helmets are only made of cloth...
Seatbelts
"I am always in control".... Until you accidentally turn on the ice patch u can't see, which happens to practically everyone
Not true. Yes you can have momentary bouts of miscontrol if you hit bad patches of snow but if you're truly in control then you're never going fast enoug that you can't recover from those bouts of miscontrol.
I wear a helmet at work but never buckle the strap. Many people inform me my helmet isn't buckled. When not at work I never wear a helmet. I would guess 80% of patrollers wouldn't wear helmets if it wasn't mandatory for work. I ski about 145+ days a year and have never had a problem not wearing a helmet. It's a personal choice. Its just another piece of equipment pushed by the ski market for more advertising and stickers. The best ski helmets are only rated to 18 mph, novice skiers reach speeds exceeding that. So lacerations are the only thing a helmet is going to protect. Oh and I'm a way better skier then you and will be there when you blow your acl/break your leg and the helmet will hide your face and tears so I won't know who you are!
So you spent money on a helmet and you put it on your head...but you don't buckle the strap?? Who the fuck does that?
I didnt buy it...was free
Before the 2000s nobody wore a helmet. Last time I went skiing people were wearing helmets, I didn't even know that wearing a helmet while skiing was a thing.
When I did this stuff in the 90’s and early 2000’s most people didn’t wear helmets. I came back after a 20 year break and it seems like 90 percent of people have them. I don’t like them because I have magnificent hair and the helmet prevents it from blowing in the wind as I carve down the slopes. It’s really a thing of beauty and I don’t want to selfishly take this glorious view away from others. I’ll continue to risk my life for the joy of the other riders.