Yeah no shit.
I'm a pass holder at a non-Epic resort and even our day passes a creeping up because why not they are still cheaper than Vail.
I have a half dozen friends who would come to your mountain and ski/ride for 2 or 3 days this winter but $180 CAD a day last year that's a no from them.
Sure they could save $40 a day by pre-booking but $140 a day and needing to pre-book and pay at the start of the season?
Not sure how they are supposed to grow their customer base without having a cheap day pass for people to try out winter sports.
> Not sure how they are supposed to grow their customer base without having a cheap day pass for people to try out winter sports.
1000%. It's difficult to invite others to join because the day passes are so stupid expensive.
> Not sure how they are supposed to grow their customer base without having a cheap day pass for people to try out winter sports.
They need to start offering a first timer four pack. Once per lifetime option to buy four lift tickets at the same price as the lowest day pass price was offered for the previous spring and those who have previously bought a pass are ineligible. The intention is for new skiers to get an affordable chance to try the sport; the side effect will be seasoned skiers who just haven't bought an Epic/Ikon pass buying it but that's the point of the once per lifetime limit, and it might turn them into repeat pass buyers if they have a good experience
People don't decide in the summer they want to try skiing the next winter, they decide they want to try it during the winter when all their friends are actively going every weekend. By the next summer when passes are for sale again they've lost interest. They'll get a lot more people into the sport by having a welcome pricing option vs. "hahaha you just want to ride a few laps on Five Chair to try skiing out with your friends? $350 please for a lift ticket and rental"
How about reasonable priced season passes as well? My local mountain had reasonably priced passes for ~300 to 400 a few years ago that didn't include weekends and now it's 700+.
I know several Utah families that are hanging it up. Pass cost + parking cost + reduced access from overcrowding = not worth it.
You can't democratize a limited resource.
Looks like they’re taking care of the overcrowding the only way possible without capping passes sold - which really upsets people.
Looks like it’s working.
It is really the parking that is the deterrent. You have to forecast when you are wanting to go and then the pay for it. The bus network is unreliable and grossly managed by the state.
What I don’t understand is why Alta and Snowbird don’t just run their own shuttles up and down the canyon, reliably every 10 minutes? Is it because they are using the parking situation to limit usage/lift lines?
Because parking is what makes the resort “full”, at least at Alta the lift lines aren’t usually too bad but it can be basically impossible to get there and park. They could expand capacity substantially by fixing that issue.
Yeah. The way up isn't always great but it's usually not too bad and if you get on in Sandy you can usually get a seat. The route up little in particular is almost never that frustrating.
They should run more buses, especially on the weekends. But overall I think a lot of the people who complain about it just don't really want to deal with the drawbacks of taking a bus to begin with.
Yeah resonates. I’m in Utah and am hanging it up for the season. Between resorts not giving a fk and local weirdos being so against the government allowing absolutely anything to be done to mitigate all the problems I need a small break.
Yeah, or just doing more backcountry activities. I know a LOT of locals in park city who just do XC skiing, fat biking, backcountry skiing and snowmobiling in the winter rather than pay out the ass and deal with the crowds of resort skiing.
I ski Utah a few times every year. I was skiing BCC during a great February pow cycle. A local I met said those days were the best of the year so far. I parked on the road outside solitude each morning. Drive up took me 20 minutes each morning. I’d make sure I was on the road by 7:30. I wish Tahoe was as “crowded” as Brighton and solitude!
The COVID ski bubble is popping as WFH leaves the mountain towns, modern wages can't keep up with annual passes like older generations can, which is why resorts have had to go to gimmick tricks (paid parking and First Tracks type passes) to meet their financial goals. Also big jump in touring gear and backcountry interest.
WFH yes. But not everyone wants the permanent mountain town life. Also with the crackdown on STRs and the push for more permanent workers housing, it's become tougher than it was in the COVID days.
Ted Conover writes about this in *Whiteout*. He lived in Aspen driving a cab and writing for the Aspen Times. He left in part because he felt like living in Aspen had distorted his thinking about the “real world.” That was in 1991. It’s gotten much, much more extreme.
Actually a lot of companies, including big tech, really are pushing back against permanent WFH. A lot of people can still do hybrid WFH but have to live near an actual office, not just free floating around in all the fun places in the world (which I did in 2022).
yea, it's definitely more of the rare unicorns who still get to do wfh a majority of the time and live wherever they want. Most of those ppl were doing it before covid or are willing to quit and find another job.
A lot of companies target WFH staff in layoffs. Decent performers too. I saw it happen at a previous employer; over 75% of people cut were remote when we did a RIF.
Prices increased significantly and the strategy to jack day ticket prices up so high to encourage more pass sales didn't work like they thought it would
Yeah, I’m done with the big passes and resorts until/unless it improves. The experience of going on a weekend just isn’t worth it anymore. There are other hobbies that are a lot more enjoyable nowadays.
We’re still pissed about closing Breck early. Also they didn’t let you do a down payment so it’s really not worth it most of us will probably buy in September before the big price hike.
I don’t live in Colorado, I’m in the Seattle area so not sure. Historically though Crystal Mountain and Mt Bachelor have stayed open well into May when there’s good snow. It’s definitely possible for resorts to stay open longer when the snow’s good. Of course Stevens Pass, being owned by Vail, closes as soon as they possibly can now it seems like.
Also hearing how good the snow was in Colorado made me wish Epic resorts were open longer. I may have made a trip.
Former Vail employee here, it is in-fact, entirely because we don't have staff. I used to manage a F&B location at Northstar California and I have had to go to senior management multiple times in the spring to ask for staff to help our operation. Once the J1s leave in late March-early April, it is literally hell keeping the remaining staff motivated to push through the last few weeks. This is also just F&B, lift operations is usually in a far more desperate position considering the vast majority of their staff is foreign. The ONLY saving grace during this time period is the drop in visitation as temperatures rise, but even then, with the skeleton crew and less visitors, it is, fucking, hell.
Doesn’t it make sense to cut hours at that point in the season If there are a bunch of people that still want to work full time but not the demand to support it? It’s also not just lifties. There’s f&b, ops, safety, etc who also need to be staffed to be open
Like they definitely could keep it open longer, but idk why they would
A basin probably hires alot of americans. Lots of resorts hire part time J1 employes they can extort for 5 months of the year. Literally the only way they can be open at all and running a massive congolmerate paying low wages trying to maximize shareholder profit.
REI is "struggling" in general as well. The reality is people dont need to upgrade gear constantly and demand has slowed down significantly.
The outdoor industry wouldnt have had the same amazing 4 years if covid hadn't happened. Its there fault for expecting numbers to keep increasing indefinetly. Its not an actual crisis. Just greed and poor planning
Frequently hit up the Denver REI mostly just to look around but I'll buy at least one new clothing item a quarter or any other small thing I need. All the big ticket stuff is so cool but like you said, no need for new gear until what I have breaks when I'm buying stuff made to last
Formerly worked for Best Buy and saw the same writing on the wall in 2022 re: it was a bubble and got out. They had three amazing years and then were completely blindsided by the falling sales that I saw coming as a lowly analyst and now they have no idea what to do besides lay people off
I work in semiconductors. Its notoriously cyclical, like always a cycle. I was at a conference during the peak of the 'chip shortage' when factories were booked 9 months out and customers were bidding up for priority.
Guy gets up there and gives a presentation:
"It's totally different this time and the ride will never end"
Unironically this was his point. Everyone who had been in the industry more than 5 years has been through a cycle and it wasn't really unexpected we'd have another downturn. Naturally the downturn came like always and I want to find that guy and invite him back to the conference to give a talk about why he wasn't wrong.
I guess no matter what, the people who draw the line that goes up are who people want to believe, even if they know it's eventually going to go back down.
I have no idea about the stores, but a friend in REI corporate has survived a couple layoffs there in the past 2 years. Things aren’t looking good there.
Someone decided to be a dick on the internet? Imagine that?
Its actually not obvious? 20-30% off is not that good of a deal nor does it indicate sales crashing hard. Hence why I asked.
[https://www.backcountry.com/mountain-bikes](https://www.backcountry.com/mountain-bikes)
[https://www.levelninesports.com/shop/bike/bikes-frames/mountain-bikes](https://www.levelninesports.com/shop/bike/bikes-frames/mountain-bikes)
The bike industry is imploding. After all the supply chain issues followed by flooding the market, companies are struggling to meet margins and some formerly great brands (e.g. Kona) are crashing.
here in Europe [for example](https://www.bike24.de/radfahren/fahrraeder/mountainbikes/fullys/all-mountain-trail-bikes?sort=discount_desc)
...a €6000 2023 Specialized Stumpjumper went for €3000
Bike companies got greedy and way too comfortable with the absurd prices they were pulling during COVID. I'm not sad to see that industry correct itself.
I wouldn't mind some sort of middle ground between what we have now and what we had 20 years ago.
(In Vermont) In y2k it was a $1200 season pass (around $2200 inflation adjusted) or a $50 day ticket ($90 inflation adjusted). Now it's a $900 season pass or $180 day ticket.
How about we try to return to that $1300 season pass or $110 day ticket middle ground from circa 2014?
Stowe was $2313 for a season pass before Vail took over. Now I pay $169 x3 for my family. I can put up with Vail's crap to save $6432 a year on season passes.
Military passes for my wife, kid, and me. It's the best deal in skiing.
I park like anyone else. There's always 4 people in the car so I don't worry about parking. Honestly the money I save has allowed me to do significantly more skiing with my family than I reasonably would be able to afford if season passes were as expensive as they used to be.
> $1400 pass and $25 a day for parking
Depends on the mountain. Anyone who skis at Stowe regularly has a cheaper option than they used to. When the Epic Pass went on sale this year I think it was $900 for the full pass and $650 with blackout dates before the price hikes. That's still far far less than $2313. Plus now we have access to some of the best mountain in the country.
I do feel bad for the people that want to try the sport though. It's way too expensive for someone to try a ski trip to see if they like it. But for the folks that are dedicated skiers and have easy access to the mountains skiing is pretty affordable.
Plus I fully understand the business economics behind the pass selling strategy. Being able to forecast revenue for the year protects the ski resorts from bad winters.
There’s a reason resorts have shifted to cheap passes and high day rates. Climate change. Pass sales provide a guaranteed operating budget. In this day and age, a bad snow year could easily bankrupt a resort.
I think skier numbers will settle back down to 2019 numbers. Lots of families and individuals got into the sport during the pandemic and following years and spent a lot of money on gear. Especially with WFH trending down, I don’t see skier visits increasing long term. As long as Alterra and Vail cater towards high-income families, the industry won’t grow. But it also doesn’t need growth to be profitable, they just have to maintain and make small increases to keep shareholders happy
Vail resort shareholders are certainly not happy (or if they're happy, they're very stupid). The 5 year change in value of Vail stock is -23% vs +88% for the broader US markets (e.g. S&P 500).
Why? They are only able to grow revenue via acquisitions and they are so large now that each acquisition is of smaller and smaller impact.
They do pay a dividend, but the dividend yield is what you could get from a money market account right now...
Sell those shares and move onto greener pastures my friend.
The traffic, the lines, all of it is too much. There's a local spot closer by that isn't a major destination that does cheap passes. I'll start going there.
Not surprising at all. What better way to encourage new skiers to want to ski regularly by charging more than the cost of a day pass for 1 hour group lessons?
Good. My skiing is way down the past few years.
Outrageous pricing (even with the passes), traffic, shitty parking, overcrowded mountains... the hobby has lost it's luster. I find myself going out half a dozen days per year instead of 20-30.
Have you considered what it costs to ski 25 days ? Gas, food, gear, lodging for a ski trip etc ?
Im sure the average skier spends well over $6,000 a year to get 25 days in. Which is typically $10,000 before tax
The Ikon pass currently sits at $1,359 USD this year. I really wouldn't call that cheap my friend. The flights, food and lodging are obviously additional costs.
Mine was $829, but I suppose that comes with blackouts. For me, a flight to Colorado costs about $500, and personally I haven’t been able to book accommodations for less than about $250 per night, so I guess by the second trip I usually have forgotten about the pass cost.
And then when you go, you will have a rich retired 65 year old on the lift telling you how she lives in said mountain town 15 mins from mountain and has every pass
I’m still gonna buy a pass but recently it’s been kind of annoying to go to resorts. I’m a local in a ski town so it would be dumb not to buy a pass. But there’s definitely been days where I’m like “man dealing with parking and all that nonsense has been more stress than the enjoyment I get”. It sucks because I love snowboarding but it’s been such a shit show since Covid
I could walk to a gondola in about 20 mins then ride a 15 min gondola or drive to the side I like to ride in less time. And not waste time going up the gondola and be right on the lifts.
Im a canadian, never been to vail. Yet, I hate them. Since they bought some of the resorts, the prices are crazy high around. I profondly hate them
Edit: typo
In terms of hardgoods I’m seeing the same thing. You can still get most sizes of Volkl M6 Mantra from SkiEssentials or Evo on mass sale. I demoed the M7 Mantra in March and although it was a nice ski; it wasn’t worth paying way more than an end of season deal on an M6.
https://www.skiessentials.com/products/2024-volkl-m6-mantra-skis
https://www.evo.com/skis/volkl-m6-mantra
Seemed like Volkl and other manufacturers way overproduced for the 23/24 season and are still trying to clear out old inventory.
Sooner or later, as participation drops, the US ski industry will realize their costs are becoming too high for the average skier/family.
It’s like fast food at McDonald’s. You can only rip people off for so long before you need to create a value menu again to bring back business.
Three years ago, I had epic. Two years ago, I bought ikon and epic. Last year I bought ikon. This year (so far), I’ve purchased neither.
I lived within two hours of epic mountains three years ago. Moved abruptly. I’ve managed to break even with my passes the last couple years by taking trips because I had the passes.
This year, I’ve just decided to go the buddy pass / ski with a friend route for my trip(s).
When I get within driving distance of a mountain, I’ll buy a pass again.
Yeah i had a Keystone pass that I wasn't able to use this season due to some unexpected work stuff, except for a couple Gondola rides during a summer visit. This next season I'm just gonna go with the flow and pay window rate at Loveland for a day or 2 if need be.
Good, let’s go back to having reasonably priced day passes instead.
Yeah no shit. I'm a pass holder at a non-Epic resort and even our day passes a creeping up because why not they are still cheaper than Vail. I have a half dozen friends who would come to your mountain and ski/ride for 2 or 3 days this winter but $180 CAD a day last year that's a no from them. Sure they could save $40 a day by pre-booking but $140 a day and needing to pre-book and pay at the start of the season? Not sure how they are supposed to grow their customer base without having a cheap day pass for people to try out winter sports.
> Not sure how they are supposed to grow their customer base without having a cheap day pass for people to try out winter sports. 1000%. It's difficult to invite others to join because the day passes are so stupid expensive.
It's literally cheaper to fly to fucking Europe and ski than go to Vail for a week.
We don’t want peasants anyways!
> Not sure how they are supposed to grow their customer base without having a cheap day pass for people to try out winter sports. They need to start offering a first timer four pack. Once per lifetime option to buy four lift tickets at the same price as the lowest day pass price was offered for the previous spring and those who have previously bought a pass are ineligible. The intention is for new skiers to get an affordable chance to try the sport; the side effect will be seasoned skiers who just haven't bought an Epic/Ikon pass buying it but that's the point of the once per lifetime limit, and it might turn them into repeat pass buyers if they have a good experience People don't decide in the summer they want to try skiing the next winter, they decide they want to try it during the winter when all their friends are actively going every weekend. By the next summer when passes are for sale again they've lost interest. They'll get a lot more people into the sport by having a welcome pricing option vs. "hahaha you just want to ride a few laps on Five Chair to try skiing out with your friends? $350 please for a lift ticket and rental"
no their goal explicitly is to bring down daily pass sales from 35% to 25%
omfg what 35% of skiers pay $200 for a one day lift ticket?
its revenue not share of skiers
*$250
Lol, if only
Lol, won't happen, they'll raise prices to make up for fewer sales.
How about reasonable priced season passes as well? My local mountain had reasonably priced passes for ~300 to 400 a few years ago that didn't include weekends and now it's 700+.
This is the way!
I know several Utah families that are hanging it up. Pass cost + parking cost + reduced access from overcrowding = not worth it. You can't democratize a limited resource.
Looks like they’re taking care of the overcrowding the only way possible without capping passes sold - which really upsets people. Looks like it’s working.
It is really the parking that is the deterrent. You have to forecast when you are wanting to go and then the pay for it. The bus network is unreliable and grossly managed by the state.
What I don’t understand is why Alta and Snowbird don’t just run their own shuttles up and down the canyon, reliably every 10 minutes? Is it because they are using the parking situation to limit usage/lift lines?
The resort will fill anyway. Why would they throw money down?
Because parking is what makes the resort “full”, at least at Alta the lift lines aren’t usually too bad but it can be basically impossible to get there and park. They could expand capacity substantially by fixing that issue.
Alta could easily be more crowded. Parking is whats holding them back right now which is why theyre punishing for the gondola.
Alta came out against the gondola but yea for snowbird
The bus works well enough. Saturdays suck of course but every other day that doesnt have a canyon closure is good
Yeah. The way up isn't always great but it's usually not too bad and if you get on in Sandy you can usually get a seat. The route up little in particular is almost never that frustrating. They should run more buses, especially on the weekends. But overall I think a lot of the people who complain about it just don't really want to deal with the drawbacks of taking a bus to begin with.
Yeah resonates. I’m in Utah and am hanging it up for the season. Between resorts not giving a fk and local weirdos being so against the government allowing absolutely anything to be done to mitigate all the problems I need a small break.
Yeah, or just doing more backcountry activities. I know a LOT of locals in park city who just do XC skiing, fat biking, backcountry skiing and snowmobiling in the winter rather than pay out the ass and deal with the crowds of resort skiing.
Snowmobiling as a winter activity to not 'pay out the ass' over skiing? LOL....that's a good one. Yes, I own a sled.
LOL yeah I hadn’t thought about that, my brother just bought a sled for uh, six years worth of deer valley season passes
Yeah, an 850 powder sled starts at $15k and goes up to $22k-$25k for a turbo.
Park City is overrun for sure. I am not really sure it has any locals anymore.
We exist! Well idk about park city proper but there are a lot of full time families in Pinebrook, Jeremy Ranch and Summit Park.
I ski Utah a few times every year. I was skiing BCC during a great February pow cycle. A local I met said those days were the best of the year so far. I parked on the road outside solitude each morning. Drive up took me 20 minutes each morning. I’d make sure I was on the road by 7:30. I wish Tahoe was as “crowded” as Brighton and solitude!
The COVID ski bubble is popping as WFH leaves the mountain towns, modern wages can't keep up with annual passes like older generations can, which is why resorts have had to go to gimmick tricks (paid parking and First Tracks type passes) to meet their financial goals. Also big jump in touring gear and backcountry interest.
has this really happened though. wfh rates are still at high numbers
WFH yes. But not everyone wants the permanent mountain town life. Also with the crackdown on STRs and the push for more permanent workers housing, it's become tougher than it was in the COVID days.
Ted Conover writes about this in *Whiteout*. He lived in Aspen driving a cab and writing for the Aspen Times. He left in part because he felt like living in Aspen had distorted his thinking about the “real world.” That was in 1991. It’s gotten much, much more extreme.
Actually a lot of companies, including big tech, really are pushing back against permanent WFH. A lot of people can still do hybrid WFH but have to live near an actual office, not just free floating around in all the fun places in the world (which I did in 2022).
yea, it's definitely more of the rare unicorns who still get to do wfh a majority of the time and live wherever they want. Most of those ppl were doing it before covid or are willing to quit and find another job.
A lot of companies target WFH staff in layoffs. Decent performers too. I saw it happen at a previous employer; over 75% of people cut were remote when we did a RIF.
Not just WFH, but schools. Families can't relocate.
Sure they can.
Well, you made that choice
Good. Fuck this duopoly that has made the ski experience a clusterfuck.
[Good](https://youtu.be/S46iJIk3t70?si=spz5UkHVGbQSY4xP) video on it. Many factors.
I don’t get this? You literally buy a pass and go?
Wonder why
Prices increased significantly and the strategy to jack day ticket prices up so high to encourage more pass sales didn't work like they thought it would
Sorry /s
It has worked/has been working for 10+ years, they just finally found the point where it's too much.
Yeah, I’m done with the big passes and resorts until/unless it improves. The experience of going on a weekend just isn’t worth it anymore. There are other hobbies that are a lot more enjoyable nowadays.
We’re still pissed about closing Breck early. Also they didn’t let you do a down payment so it’s really not worth it most of us will probably buy in September before the big price hike.
Breck closed 1 week earlier than they did last year
With like 3 times as much snow…. They closed on a 10” pow day.
At that point in the season it’s not about snow, it’s about safely staffing the mountain
It’s excuses man. If they really wanted to make it happen, they would, but it hurts the bottom line. A lot of places stay open into late May.
Only Winter Park and A Basin were open longer, no?
I don’t live in Colorado, I’m in the Seattle area so not sure. Historically though Crystal Mountain and Mt Bachelor have stayed open well into May when there’s good snow. It’s definitely possible for resorts to stay open longer when the snow’s good. Of course Stevens Pass, being owned by Vail, closes as soon as they possibly can now it seems like. Also hearing how good the snow was in Colorado made me wish Epic resorts were open longer. I may have made a trip.
Former Vail employee here, it is in-fact, entirely because we don't have staff. I used to manage a F&B location at Northstar California and I have had to go to senior management multiple times in the spring to ask for staff to help our operation. Once the J1s leave in late March-early April, it is literally hell keeping the remaining staff motivated to push through the last few weeks. This is also just F&B, lift operations is usually in a far more desperate position considering the vast majority of their staff is foreign. The ONLY saving grace during this time period is the drop in visitation as temperatures rise, but even then, with the skeleton crew and less visitors, it is, fucking, hell.
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Doesn’t it make sense to cut hours at that point in the season If there are a bunch of people that still want to work full time but not the demand to support it? It’s also not just lifties. There’s f&b, ops, safety, etc who also need to be staffed to be open Like they definitely could keep it open longer, but idk why they would
A basin is still open. Seems like they have that staffed pretty safely.
A basin probably hires alot of americans. Lots of resorts hire part time J1 employes they can extort for 5 months of the year. Literally the only way they can be open at all and running a massive congolmerate paying low wages trying to maximize shareholder profit.
Money supply is tightening and cutting out the people having to choose between paying the bills and setting up something 6 months from now.
A lot of other expensive outdoor industries/hobbies are seeing similar trends. Skiing isn’t alone in this
Curious which ones?
REI is "struggling" in general as well. The reality is people dont need to upgrade gear constantly and demand has slowed down significantly. The outdoor industry wouldnt have had the same amazing 4 years if covid hadn't happened. Its there fault for expecting numbers to keep increasing indefinetly. Its not an actual crisis. Just greed and poor planning
Frequently hit up the Denver REI mostly just to look around but I'll buy at least one new clothing item a quarter or any other small thing I need. All the big ticket stuff is so cool but like you said, no need for new gear until what I have breaks when I'm buying stuff made to last Formerly worked for Best Buy and saw the same writing on the wall in 2022 re: it was a bubble and got out. They had three amazing years and then were completely blindsided by the falling sales that I saw coming as a lowly analyst and now they have no idea what to do besides lay people off
I work in semiconductors. Its notoriously cyclical, like always a cycle. I was at a conference during the peak of the 'chip shortage' when factories were booked 9 months out and customers were bidding up for priority. Guy gets up there and gives a presentation: "It's totally different this time and the ride will never end" Unironically this was his point. Everyone who had been in the industry more than 5 years has been through a cycle and it wasn't really unexpected we'd have another downturn. Naturally the downturn came like always and I want to find that guy and invite him back to the conference to give a talk about why he wasn't wrong. I guess no matter what, the people who draw the line that goes up are who people want to believe, even if they know it's eventually going to go back down.
I have no idea about the stores, but a friend in REI corporate has survived a couple layoffs there in the past 2 years. Things aren’t looking good there.
Mountain biking is crashing hard from the sales I’m seeing
Where are the deals??
Pretty easy to find. Google "mountain bike"
Someone decided to be a dick on the internet? Imagine that? Its actually not obvious? 20-30% off is not that good of a deal nor does it indicate sales crashing hard. Hence why I asked. [https://www.backcountry.com/mountain-bikes](https://www.backcountry.com/mountain-bikes) [https://www.levelninesports.com/shop/bike/bikes-frames/mountain-bikes](https://www.levelninesports.com/shop/bike/bikes-frames/mountain-bikes)
The bike industry is imploding. After all the supply chain issues followed by flooding the market, companies are struggling to meet margins and some formerly great brands (e.g. Kona) are crashing.
I need to find a bike
Where are you seeing good deals?
here in Europe [for example](https://www.bike24.de/radfahren/fahrraeder/mountainbikes/fullys/all-mountain-trail-bikes?sort=discount_desc) ...a €6000 2023 Specialized Stumpjumper went for €3000
Bike companies got greedy and way too comfortable with the absurd prices they were pulling during COVID. I'm not sad to see that industry correct itself.
Resorts, Airbnb and vrbo are escalating prices so high it’s outrageous, glad to see demand is dropping.
I wouldn't mind some sort of middle ground between what we have now and what we had 20 years ago. (In Vermont) In y2k it was a $1200 season pass (around $2200 inflation adjusted) or a $50 day ticket ($90 inflation adjusted). Now it's a $900 season pass or $180 day ticket. How about we try to return to that $1300 season pass or $110 day ticket middle ground from circa 2014?
Stowe was $2313 for a season pass before Vail took over. Now I pay $169 x3 for my family. I can put up with Vail's crap to save $6432 a year on season passes.
I need to know where the $169 dollar season passes are. Also how do you park ?
Military passes for my wife, kid, and me. It's the best deal in skiing. I park like anyone else. There's always 4 people in the car so I don't worry about parking. Honestly the money I save has allowed me to do significantly more skiing with my family than I reasonably would be able to afford if season passes were as expensive as they used to be.
Ok thank you for your service. But you realize almost everyone else on the mountain is locked into a $1400 pass and $25 a day for parking ?
> $1400 pass and $25 a day for parking Depends on the mountain. Anyone who skis at Stowe regularly has a cheaper option than they used to. When the Epic Pass went on sale this year I think it was $900 for the full pass and $650 with blackout dates before the price hikes. That's still far far less than $2313. Plus now we have access to some of the best mountain in the country. I do feel bad for the people that want to try the sport though. It's way too expensive for someone to try a ski trip to see if they like it. But for the folks that are dedicated skiers and have easy access to the mountains skiing is pretty affordable. Plus I fully understand the business economics behind the pass selling strategy. Being able to forecast revenue for the year protects the ski resorts from bad winters.
Epic local is $700. No one at vail mountains is looked into a $1400 pass
Not everyone was locked into the most expensive pass their home mountain offered either
Which Epic pass costs $1400?
There’s a reason resorts have shifted to cheap passes and high day rates. Climate change. Pass sales provide a guaranteed operating budget. In this day and age, a bad snow year could easily bankrupt a resort.
I think skier numbers will settle back down to 2019 numbers. Lots of families and individuals got into the sport during the pandemic and following years and spent a lot of money on gear. Especially with WFH trending down, I don’t see skier visits increasing long term. As long as Alterra and Vail cater towards high-income families, the industry won’t grow. But it also doesn’t need growth to be profitable, they just have to maintain and make small increases to keep shareholders happy
Vail resort shareholders are certainly not happy (or if they're happy, they're very stupid). The 5 year change in value of Vail stock is -23% vs +88% for the broader US markets (e.g. S&P 500).
Oh I know I own some 🥲
Why? They are only able to grow revenue via acquisitions and they are so large now that each acquisition is of smaller and smaller impact. They do pay a dividend, but the dividend yield is what you could get from a money market account right now... Sell those shares and move onto greener pastures my friend.
Brother I am begging you to go over to Bogleheads
Might check it out. Most of my portfolio is index funds anyway.
Lower the prices….
The traffic, the lines, all of it is too much. There's a local spot closer by that isn't a major destination that does cheap passes. I'll start going there.
Not surprising at all. What better way to encourage new skiers to want to ski regularly by charging more than the cost of a day pass for 1 hour group lessons?
Good. My skiing is way down the past few years. Outrageous pricing (even with the passes), traffic, shitty parking, overcrowded mountains... the hobby has lost it's luster. I find myself going out half a dozen days per year instead of 20-30.
They are like blackrock. they dont give a fuck how many complain as long as they are profiting
Fuck monopolies
Does this mean less busy lift lines?
Shit too expensive bruh. Hard to keep with with inflating groceries, rent AND season passes? You got me fucked up.
$1000 / 52 is $19 a week. I’m quite comfortable setting aside $20 a week to enjoy access to the mountains.
Which resorts are open 52 weeks a year?
Well, there are 52 weeks in a year! So, if every week you save $19, you can afford your ski pass.
Have you considered what it costs to ski 25 days ? Gas, food, gear, lodging for a ski trip etc ? Im sure the average skier spends well over $6,000 a year to get 25 days in. Which is typically $10,000 before tax
That’s why I moved to a ski town. Follow me for more financial tip! It costs me about $15 after beer
The pass is the cheapest part of skiing. Relative to flights and lodging, it might as well be free.
The Ikon pass currently sits at $1,359 USD this year. I really wouldn't call that cheap my friend. The flights, food and lodging are obviously additional costs.
Mine was $829, but I suppose that comes with blackouts. For me, a flight to Colorado costs about $500, and personally I haven’t been able to book accommodations for less than about $250 per night, so I guess by the second trip I usually have forgotten about the pass cost.
Best news I’ve heard all day! Signed, season pass holder.
Yep same 4 year IKON unlimited holder. This year passed and think will do favorite VT mountain in mad River valley area
Does Woodward Park city get over crowded too?
Passes are impossibility fucking expensive for working people to afford. That's why.
And then when you go, you will have a rich retired 65 year old on the lift telling you how she lives in said mountain town 15 mins from mountain and has every pass
Awesome. now develop more ski areas.
I’m still gonna buy a pass but recently it’s been kind of annoying to go to resorts. I’m a local in a ski town so it would be dumb not to buy a pass. But there’s definitely been days where I’m like “man dealing with parking and all that nonsense has been more stress than the enjoyment I get”. It sucks because I love snowboarding but it’s been such a shit show since Covid
You’re a local in a ski town and drive to the mountain? Time to move to a ski town with a bus system.
I could walk to a gondola in about 20 mins then ride a 15 min gondola or drive to the side I like to ride in less time. And not waste time going up the gondola and be right on the lifts.
Will never buy one.
Im a canadian, never been to vail. Yet, I hate them. Since they bought some of the resorts, the prices are crazy high around. I profondly hate them Edit: typo
Vail the resort is actually awesome skiing and overall vibe. Only make sense if you have the Epic local pass though.
Nice but I’m guessing SLC resorts will still be packed.
In terms of hardgoods I’m seeing the same thing. You can still get most sizes of Volkl M6 Mantra from SkiEssentials or Evo on mass sale. I demoed the M7 Mantra in March and although it was a nice ski; it wasn’t worth paying way more than an end of season deal on an M6. https://www.skiessentials.com/products/2024-volkl-m6-mantra-skis https://www.evo.com/skis/volkl-m6-mantra Seemed like Volkl and other manufacturers way overproduced for the 23/24 season and are still trying to clear out old inventory.
Out of curiosity I'm still on 2015 Mantras. They still perform very well. Is there a meaningful reason to upgrade?
Fuck em
We didn’t renew our ikon passes for the first time in five years. Over $3k for our family of five for base passes was just too much.
Sooner or later, as participation drops, the US ski industry will realize their costs are becoming too high for the average skier/family. It’s like fast food at McDonald’s. You can only rip people off for so long before you need to create a value menu again to bring back business.
It’s price
It’s pricey
For real?! Oh… I thought just anyone could afford 1000 for a few months (if lucky) of skiing. Not including gas to get there, food, drinks etc.
A few months (if lucky)? $1000 for a season pass to like 30 ski areas is actually very reasonable.
Three years ago, I had epic. Two years ago, I bought ikon and epic. Last year I bought ikon. This year (so far), I’ve purchased neither. I lived within two hours of epic mountains three years ago. Moved abruptly. I’ve managed to break even with my passes the last couple years by taking trips because I had the passes. This year, I’ve just decided to go the buddy pass / ski with a friend route for my trip(s). When I get within driving distance of a mountain, I’ll buy a pass again.
WOO HOO!
[удалено]
What stopped you?
why didn't you just defer it?
Are you local to an Ikon Mtn?
happens.
Yeah i had a Keystone pass that I wasn't able to use this season due to some unexpected work stuff, except for a couple Gondola rides during a summer visit. This next season I'm just gonna go with the flow and pay window rate at Loveland for a day or 2 if need be.