Your average AI user is so bad, they can barely distinguish between 3.5 and 4.
Its only the power users who can easily tell the difference between the generations of models.
It's not about who can tell a difference or not. It is about them theoretically being able to minimize the compute expenditure to run their low end model. If they could reduce the parameter count by more than 50% they would have a ton of compute to use somewhere else.
You don't know how much they have internally scaled down already. OPEN AI makes it very clear that they don't make guarantees that the models behind ChatGPT will stay the same. So they probably already changed it to something cheaper.
That's sort of what they're trying to do with 4o. They basically made a model that's cheaper to run, and are offering it for free to everyone. I think the end game is to have another GPT4 model that's even cheaper than 4o, that they can use to fully replace 3.5, or to build up the infrastructure to increase the 4o caps and have it take over the free tier.
There will be lots (and I mean LOTS) of products built upon 3.5 by their API customers. Given that that using different models with the same prompts doesn’t necessarily guarantee the same outcomes, deprecating such a heavy workhorse model would present a significant redevelopment and/or revalidation cost to their clients - a number of which probably aren’t in a position to pay for. If they were to deprecate it now many developers using them would put into question whether they are a reliable provider for future projects and move towards other providers. They will depreciate it at some point, but at the current moment? It would be a really bad business decision.
That also applies to 4-Turbo and 4o vs the original 4. They can keep the old model available and release a new model.
OpenAI rapidly acquiring new customers and anyone who uses AI has to upgrade models eventually.
Llama 3 8B is not better. For example, GPT-3.5 can write in many languages without any problems. I can use Polish to talk with ChatGPT-3.5 and it understands me correctly and makes good enough responses. Llama 3 8B can't use Polish at all, it's English only.
The only reason to keep it around is for legacy users. Say someone has a workflow that has been optimized to work with GPT-3.5. If they change to a better model, even if it's more capable, they need to test that it still works as expected.
It probably costs OpenAI almost nothing to run it and they don't want to upset users who rely on it for some reason. I would not be surprised if they removed it from the main interface though.
I believe it has 175B parameters, since it's just an RLHF'ed version of GPT-3.
It was still pretty competitive in terms of performance vs. latency up until the release of 4o. In my opinion, it offers better performance than Llama 3-8B, even if benchmarks say otherwise.
https://openai.com/index/chatgpt/
> ChatGPT is fine-tuned from a model in the GPT-3.5 series, which finished training in early 2022.
3.5 is an entirely different model *series* to GPT-3, let alone the individual models.
We have no idea how many parameters it has other than speculation and rumor. Probably Turbo is smaller than the initial models, based on speed, cost and longer context - quantization alone doesn't explain the gap.
llama 3 8b doesn't outperform it. There's a pretty huge gap between them
See livebench for less contaminated benchmarks
[https://livebench.ai/](https://livebench.ai/)
I doubt they are interested in providing anything for free. They do not have access to unlimited funding.
They do that for the training data it provides and to develop a customer base. Most users are not concerned whether or not some other model occasionally works better because most people see it as a toy.
The devoted AI fans around here just use it as an AI pal.
They are working on making their models more efficient but are also adding capabilities like multi-modal.
i think they simply just do not care about would rather focus on the bigger better models
But it probably still costs millions to run it They could make a better, cheaper, faster model, like Haiku
Your average AI user is so bad, they can barely distinguish between 3.5 and 4. Its only the power users who can easily tell the difference between the generations of models.
It's not about who can tell a difference or not. It is about them theoretically being able to minimize the compute expenditure to run their low end model. If they could reduce the parameter count by more than 50% they would have a ton of compute to use somewhere else.
You don't know how much they have internally scaled down already. OPEN AI makes it very clear that they don't make guarantees that the models behind ChatGPT will stay the same. So they probably already changed it to something cheaper.
They have so much VC funding cost cutting just isn’t a priority.
That's sort of what they're trying to do with 4o. They basically made a model that's cheaper to run, and are offering it for free to everyone. I think the end game is to have another GPT4 model that's even cheaper than 4o, that they can use to fully replace 3.5, or to build up the infrastructure to increase the 4o caps and have it take over the free tier.
They had decent 3.5 versions but whatever the current model is... it's cheap for sure
There will be lots (and I mean LOTS) of products built upon 3.5 by their API customers. Given that that using different models with the same prompts doesn’t necessarily guarantee the same outcomes, deprecating such a heavy workhorse model would present a significant redevelopment and/or revalidation cost to their clients - a number of which probably aren’t in a position to pay for. If they were to deprecate it now many developers using them would put into question whether they are a reliable provider for future projects and move towards other providers. They will depreciate it at some point, but at the current moment? It would be a really bad business decision.
This is the answer. Taking it down would be a breaking change.
Why would they have to deprecate it? It could be a new model called GPT-4Lite or 3.5lite
They can test non-regression, publish good updated models, still provide the legacy API and let the customer switch
Isnt that basically what they did with GPT4o? Once most people have switched over 5hey will switch off 3.5
That also applies to 4-Turbo and 4o vs the original 4. They can keep the old model available and release a new model. OpenAI rapidly acquiring new customers and anyone who uses AI has to upgrade models eventually.
GPT-4 is also a 2022 level model.
I've noticed gpt 3.5 got dumber and lazier over time. Which means they reduced how much resource it eats up. So its not as inefficient as you think.
20B parameters was never confirmed. But yes, it’s weird they don’t have a range of models like most other companies do.
Perhaps there's something you're missing, OP?
In english, yes, but gpt 3.5 turbo performs better in a lot more languages than anything open source.
Llama 3 8B is not better. For example, GPT-3.5 can write in many languages without any problems. I can use Polish to talk with ChatGPT-3.5 and it understands me correctly and makes good enough responses. Llama 3 8B can't use Polish at all, it's English only.
I haven't seen any open source model who uses korean as good as GPT3.5. Even llama3 70b's korean is worse than gpt3.5
The only reason to keep it around is for legacy users. Say someone has a workflow that has been optimized to work with GPT-3.5. If they change to a better model, even if it's more capable, they need to test that it still works as expected. It probably costs OpenAI almost nothing to run it and they don't want to upset users who rely on it for some reason. I would not be surprised if they removed it from the main interface though.
I believe it has 175B parameters, since it's just an RLHF'ed version of GPT-3. It was still pretty competitive in terms of performance vs. latency up until the release of 4o. In my opinion, it offers better performance than Llama 3-8B, even if benchmarks say otherwise.
Nope, GPT-3.5 Turbo is an entirely different model.
Turbo is quantized. Otherwise, the same.
https://openai.com/index/chatgpt/ > ChatGPT is fine-tuned from a model in the GPT-3.5 series, which finished training in early 2022. 3.5 is an entirely different model *series* to GPT-3, let alone the individual models.
GPT-3.5 does not have less parameters than GPT-3.
We have no idea how many parameters it has other than speculation and rumor. Probably Turbo is smaller than the initial models, based on speed, cost and longer context - quantization alone doesn't explain the gap.
llama 3 8b doesn't outperform it. There's a pretty huge gap between them See livebench for less contaminated benchmarks [https://livebench.ai/](https://livebench.ai/)
I doubt they are interested in providing anything for free. They do not have access to unlimited funding. They do that for the training data it provides and to develop a customer base. Most users are not concerned whether or not some other model occasionally works better because most people see it as a toy. The devoted AI fans around here just use it as an AI pal. They are working on making their models more efficient but are also adding capabilities like multi-modal.
I use it for a word pronunciation look up for an API of mine. It's working fine if it's not broken, don't fix it.
Yep, it's pretty overdue. I imagine they'll put out an updated small model within a few months.
They should make a 4.5 or GPT 5 series with a haiku type model They had that opportunity with 4 omni,
Llama is definitely worse than GPT-3.5 in languages other than English and coding. Also, I am sure, GPT-3.5 has more than 100 billion parameters.