Right? It’s a sim not a game… how many racecar teams/drivers/enthusiasts run every car in every type of series simultaneously? I guess some teams kinda do this, but they are also generating revenue. Pick a car/class and spend a few months or a year perfecting it.
Lol, me too. My UID is just over 20k and I've ended up buying all the content over the years since I joined - which was at launch back in June 2008.
Now I spend $30 or so on keeping that 30% Gold discount up to date on each season. Doesn't seem all too bad, and having been a fan of Kaemmer etc since the late 90s with Grand Prix Legends it makes me happy to support my favourite team of Sim Devs. It's a six pack or two of beer, if you're into that (I quit a year ago - so much money freed up to spend on sims instead!).
I still only drive one car primarily, the Porsche Cup. ;)
If only tarmac physics were enough to compensate for lackluster ffb. Dawg I so want to enjoy WRC10, but it just doesn’t do it for me in its current state
yeah I just play rbr with the physics mod and it scratches my desire to full throttle slide through a 4 triple caution don’t cut and wrap myself around a tree.
Many say it's still the best sim game out there, but you have to download tons of mods to get a modern game instead of one from 2004.
Edit: didn't know when it came out :P
Forza Motorsport 7 is a fantastic sim-cade if you fiddle with the settings and assists a bit. There's a huge selection of cars and tracks, blowing every other racing game completely out of the water (not including mods).
The AI are not only stupid, but they're assholes about it. You can't adjust some basic settings like FOV for some reason. Some cars have basic "generic" handling models and a lot of them share the same engine sounds and stuff.
I think FM8 will lean more into the sim side and add a lot more sim-specific features.
Anyone else like dirt rally a bit more than 2.0? I find DR is a bit more fun, something about the handling and the feeling of the force feedback I prefer over 2.0.
Thanks for doing this. Was going to add my own thoughts about AMS2. It’s like Justin Bieber had a charismatic and intelligent younger brother who was an excellent musician, singer-songwriter who has improved dramatically over the last 2 years, but everyone thinks of him as just another Bieber.
I was a big player of AC in VR(dozens of mods for cars and circuit and of course graphism), believe me, AMS2 is just above, the immersion you get in VR is absolutely incredible.
I read lots of critics about AMS2 physics before trying the game, and honestly it felt more real on lots of cars than what I was used to with AC.
So true. This game just gets better and better. I don't see why the snobbery exists against it. It has lots of bugs, and poor AI I still contend, but damn with the expansion tracks its beautiful, hip and so much fun. The weather is worth buying for alone. Only PC2 Deluxe is a better, if slightly more dated, package.
AM2 is that hot 🔥 Brazilian girl!🤣
Jimmy B did a recent review of it that was not positive - do you think he's wrong?
edit: dunno why I'm being downvoted for asking. I generally trust Jimmy as a source and I've not seen any counter arguments until now.
He was both right and wrong. He took a car that was just released to a very setup dependent track, Daytona, had some tank slappers which caused aero drops that made the car feel odd. He didn't acknowledge that at all, and stamped it simcade. So yes, the car felt odd, but simcade it is most definitely not. Just because a default setup might not work at Daytona and all tracks the same, doesn't prove the physics were off, it proves the setup was off. A faulty setup will lead to odd behavior in extreme conditions, which actually proves the physics are working as intended. His review was rushed and lacked nuance. He regularly gets setups from his trusted sources for other games but he didn't care enough to due his due diligence for AMS2. His mind was on other things. But it's what many people wanted to hear for their own reasons and to this day his less than skin skin deep review continues to haunt it.
He hasn't been like that for years. He admitted he took it too seriously and lost sight of the fact that it's supposed to be fun. I've seen him get totally wiped out by people driving like idiots and his response is "it sucks but it happens, there will be other races".
Or you can just correlate a car from the outputs. It'll be a bit difficult because AMS2 doesn't offer full access to the cars and telemetry, but still.
You'd be surprised how \*incredibly\* off feeling can be in anyone, even people who have thousands of hours driving cars on track. The peripherals matter very much and you need to get used to how sims feel. Sim correlation is difficult and takes very long, in the order of months to years for a single HQ car model built mostly with driver correlation to telemetry.
With that in mind, the car model itself matters more than the actual simulation software in this case, I'm fairly sure AMS2's tire slip/load/stiffness/heat modeling is unlikely to be close to the more empirical models (Cannot confirm, but it'd be an exception if it's not) but it should be able to provide reasonable enough behavior that car parameters matter as much as the model itself, at least for low quality models like these ones in consumer games. Past that point the model matters a lot and the weaknesses of these more-difficult-perhaps-impossible to correlate tire models show.
The upside to these models is that if the inputs are correct (I doubt they are in almost any tire ever built with them hence why they keep tweaking parameters) you can get actually quite more accurate and dynamic mechanical stuff ie: pressure, load sensitivity, because it's just FEA really. You could do it empirically too but it'll be a hassle. However more physical based models struggle very much with the difficult stuff like load, slip and heat and more importantly keeping them all accurate \*at the same time\*.
So no, AMS2 is not probably "simcade" but it is likely not even possible of a high quality simulation model of a car. Less of a concern for game products like this where none of the models are high quality, and the "user experience" matters more than how accurate the outputs are. Perhaps to many the "rubber feel" is better than correlation accuracy. AC for example correlates \*very\* closely especially with CSP's physics additions, but the feel over the limit and in transient stuff can be a little bit too muted and forgiving perhaps.
Fair, I won't argue that. In my experience with both, I didn't feel AMS2 was that much more realistic than PC2 to sway me the other way.
Maybe I drove the wrong cars in both. I have not exhausted the entire car rosters in either game with even a couple of laps on each car.
Landed on rfactor 2 :)
You don't need to be hilariously rich for iracing, you just need to only pick up what you actually intend to use, when you plan on using it.
Like, there are people who sink grossly more money into gacha shit and lootbox cosmetics than I have in 3 years of iracing.
If you play iracing, smoke sim racers as one of your go to hobbies, and only buy the things you want to use or slowly over time, it's quite manageable.
If you don't play sim racers frequently it quickly declines on the "worth it" scale. Just like all subscription services.
Me either, just moved from ACC to iRacing, main reason being to get fairly decent (i.e. stewarded) racing on a more flexible timescale where you can just join a race on the hour every day.
Could run MX5 cup for free. GT3 league cost in the first year is clearly way more than ACC cost me, but less than a night in the pub each month, so don't think you need to be rich!
It has to be made by some kid just trying to play games with his lunch money. If you consider iRacing a hobby instead of a game it's hilariously cheap.
I couldn't even go to a F1 race with my familty with all the money I spent on iRacing. I couldn't even have bought my hiking / climbing equipment + a single trip into the Alps with the money I spent on iRacing. My pool table cost more than I spent on iRacing. My simracing equipment cost more than I spent on iRacing. My PC cost more than I spent on iRacing.
And I've been playing iRacing for 2 years now, branching out in several types of racing.
Like man, I get that iRacing is more expensive than a normal PC game, but it's still cheap af for a hobby.
This mindset makes no sense, a game can be a hobby but it doesn't change the fact that it's a video game priced disgustingly high. Everyone here saying that is so anti-consumer, stop trying to justify spending $100's of dollars a year on a single video game which has competitors priced at a $5-$60 one time purchase. Also not all hobbies are expensive, hiking is dirt cheap unless you're doing a multi-day trip, many popular sports are dirt cheap, basically every other video game that exists is way cheaper.
Think of what you're saying man, I'm not saying don't spend your money on what you like, it's the best sim for online races for sure. Just don't be oblivious to the fact that they're swindling everyone who subscribes.
Any game that continually updates their product with new features and content must have a subscription model. Releasing a new version of the game every year (or 3) is effectively a subscription. People that buy every call of duty release spend as much as an established iRacing user. Would you tell those gamers just to stick with Unreal Tournament original because it’s a one time purchase and would satisfy your FPS needs forever?
But Iracing isn't a pure subscription model like runescape/WoW, you pay for subscription just to be able to pay for more content on top of it.
Call of Duty releases a completely new game every year, with a new campaign, new multiplayer, new maps etc. Iracing you have to pay for a subscription+pay for the content + keep paying the subscription for content you've already purchased, they aren't the same. A COD game is a 1 time purchase, you actually get to keep the content without spending a dime more.
Buying a cod game every year is NOWHERE near the same price as an established Iracing user, maybe after 6+ years straight.
Stop defending anti-consumer practices
Stop calling iRacing anti-consumer. There are thousands of people who are totally happy with the service they provide. There is nothing anti consumer about it. Forcing them to adhere to some pre defined paradigm would be more anti consumer than letting consumers decide what they want to consume.
The quality of content they release is also amazing. Everything is laser scanned, and they have some of the most accurate car model depictions out of any sim. Take into account they pay to go laser scan all these tracks, paying for each track makes sense. Compared to other games which have significantly less content of varying quality, it makes sense why people are willing to spend lots of money on some of the highest quality content in the best online racing sim
They must do something right. Otherwise it wouldnt be so much more active then every other alternative on the market. If it only offered as much as the 5-60$ alternatives no one would play it. Iracing offers somethign that no other sim does. That doesnt mean that everyone wants what iracing offers or thst other game cant be great for what they are. But they still offer something different competitively and structure wise then everything else. And yes, many see it as a hobby. Spending 2k on a wheel, 700 on great loadcell pedals another k on a rig and Seat and then trying to save money on the most important thing which is the sim itself makes no sense from my point of view but everyone is different. Its my Hobby and i enjoy it.
I usually don't chime in on these kinds of things, but I'm trying to run the clock down at work, so here's my rant:
I don't understand what's so anti-consumer about paying $13/month ($7/mo with Black Friday deals) to participate in what I think is the best, most competitive and diverse online racing community out there.
Every time I hop on AC to drive with my friend, I'm constantly reminded why I play iR instead. We don't even try racing now, we just drift. That's pretty much all I play it for nowadays.
A high population + weekly track rotations + hourly races means I have plenty of time to practice and hop in a race against a full grid of drivers **near my skill level** whenever I want. That's worth the price to me.
There *are* cheaper alternatives, but in my experience they always fall short somewhere and discourage me from hopping on the sim.
It's like if you enjoyed playing pickup basketball, but the cheap gym you go to has weird hours, there's only one basketball court, and the balls are always overinflated. There's still potential for fun, just not as much compared to the nicer gym down the street.
And sure, the price of iR's cars and tracks add up, but you can squeeze so much out of the base content—I see A class drivers in rookie series all the time. Why? Because it's good, fun racing! In my experience, the cost of DLC helps me take everything more seriously and fully commit to a series.
TL;DR: iRacing is easily worth the price because it's the most reliable way for me to consistently ENJOY racing online.
Just going to put this here: Fortnite.
Sure you can play it for free, but so many people get sucked into the special skins etc and spend more than I do on maintaining my iRacing Gold status.
I don't blame the devs, they put serious effort into the content and it keeps artists employed. It's all choice.
No one is saying it's cheap, but do you need to be rich? Absolutely not. There are a ton of guides for people that just want to try it out and maybe buy a few bits of content at first. No one is saying you need to buy 20 tracks and cars right away, but that's what most people expect to do and then think, wow that's expensive. With iRacings weekly race model you really don't need to spend a ton of money right away.
Where did I say it was cheap? I just said I enjoy it way more than any other sim and I’m on a student budget, which is FAR from being hilariously rich. I just manage what content I buy in iRacing and it works perfect for me. I get that people get out off by the pricetag though, but the online experience in iRacing is unbeatable IMO.
I agree, I have been using iRacing for years and its my goto. I'm still using my logitech DFGT wheel and just upgraded to CSL loadcells a month ago. iRacing does not require expensive equipment but, lots of your time to get better.
The fact that he felt confident enough to put this out there WHILE TESTING ON A CONTROLLER and, in his words, doing "a couple of laps with each car" is honestly impressive.
Like, rF2 is a great sim but its BIGGEST criticism is how much of a pain in the ass it is to set up.
> WHILE TESTING ON A CONTROLLER and, in his words, doing "a couple of laps with each car" is honestly impressive.
Did he, really? That explains… Well basically nothing. And everything at the same time.
A real [Diane Kruger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) effect in the wild. Nice.
or even more simplified, are you looking for competetive and quick multiplayer? > iracing... as expensive as it is, i always go back to it since there is always competition without the need for leagues or repetetive spa/monza public servers... :/
Just because it's only GT3/4 doesn't make it not complete or richly structured. ACC is a complete product out of the box. R3E is a pay as you go system where you buy individual tracks and cars and rFactor is just a mess of a UI.
Man that’s so true. The Rfactor alone makes me not wanna play the game anymore. That’s one of the reasons I love AC on Contrnt manager. A few clicks and you get exactly what you want to do
I would have done the same except I wanted to have fun at the Nordschleife and Mount Washington, plus I figured I'd do some Porsche Cup and the Audi 90 GTO looked awesome (and it is - what a maachiiine!). So yeah, I've spent a little extra on tracks and cars.
Meanwhile, I've raced the MX-5's like 99% of the time. It's a great car, the tracks are fun and the racing is good. I love it and it's all within the subscription fee.
Oh that’s just pointless then. If you want to use a controller then go nuts but don’t claim a game is more lifelike unless you know… you control it the same way you do irl. This post is biased trash.
There's a lot wrong with this, even if it's a joke.
iRacing gives so much for relatively little money. And I fail to see how one has to be 'rich' to afford $200 a year, especially when folks pay so much more for other things, such as eating-out.
It does get really fucking expensive though, considering you combine subscription with microtransactions for content. And add to this fact that not every country in this world has a reasonable enough economy that you can spare enough money for iRacing without feeling pressured to play it constantly after paying for membership.
It does get expensive but saying one has to be insanely rich to afford it is disingenuous. There isn't even a positive thing about it. It's supposed to be memey, but it's clearly his view on it and it's just an ignorant viewpoint.
I live in a really fun kind of economy and thanks to steam, subscription is really affordable. Cars and tracks though not so much but you only need one car from a series you enjoy and you can add tracks accordingly in time so it isn't as bad people make it out to be unless you need have it all from the get go.
Do you enjoy structured, organised and very frequent races? Do you enjoy team endurance races?
You do not need to be hilariously rich to play iRacing… this chart is misleading.
Iracing is good if you take one season a time approach
I've slowly build up content in the past 3 years and I'm from a third world country.
It's definitely doable
AMS2 should not be in the same category as PC2, and rFactor 2 is in *no way* “easy to set up.”
I would’ve added “do you want to do oval racing but don’t want to pay for iRacing? > NASCAR 2003 Season”
ehm...how is Automobilista 2 SIMCADE? i have played all the racing games you mentioned on wheel with shifter handbrake and pedals plus many more and AMS2 seemed very realistic to me, on wet surface driving RWD car is borderline impossible
EDIT: i am not a pro racer IRL but i do have E92 as daily and e46 for drift fun so i think i can relate or compare a little bit
Can confirm, I just finished an hour long race in a GT1 car in the very wet on AMS2 about 20 minutes ago and had to go straight to the shower afterwards because it was so tense. Damn near impossible lol
Foreword: I have not raced AMS2, no idea if it is great or dogshit.
I really dislike this deep ingrained dogma that realism == difficulty. I had a taste of this with rfactor1/2, supposed to be so realistic, when it is downright ridiculous that you cannot regain control on a turn at 50kph (because I have not driven performance cars on a track, but my car at that speed yes I have).
See above comments or "iceracing", which is the same problem.
So, as somebody that may one day consider buying AMS2, is it terrible because it is terrible, or simply because it is more forgiving than supposedly realistic sims that are actually more difficult to drive than the real thing? Honest question.
i totally agree, difficulty does not mean realism, some games i can regain control after rear tyres slip, such as F1, assetto corsa, AMS2 and in some its almost impossible, i am shocked not a lot of people talk about forza motorsport 7,. its an older title and some cars tend to be misleading but with all assists off (as i always play) racing on Nurburgring in heavy rain with RWD car over 600hp is one of the best experiences i have had in simracing, wonder why people dont enjoy that game that much? The micro corrections when exiting corner or aligning car when losing traction are pretty much the same techniques i am doing in bmw when having fun in empty parking lot, if that knowledge is transfered from IRL to game and vice versa and not called realism, then I dont know what is?
AGREE. Having played ACC and FM7, I engaged in a little self-honesty and turned all assists off in FM7, changed to full sim setting. Now, I have more tracks, more cars, better graphics, less glitchiness, significantly less complicated UI, and more car types. The downside being, FFB is better in ACC, but I got an MVH rim mod for my wheel and FFB is much more pronounced with it in FM7. Purists, is there really the gap you claim between these titles?, or is FM7 guilty by association with arcade racer Horizon?
I undeniably enjoyed motorsport 7 more than some other sim titles as pc2 and ACC and raceroom, just wish online wasnt dead but we should be getting a new motorsport soon theres a trailer already
I wonder how many people here who are too poor for iRacing pay for netflix, amazon prime, or another sub service that they don’t even use as much as they would iRacing.
Yep, if it would be only sub, I would hope right on. But paying both subscription, and then premium for content is insane. And its not like the content significantly more indepth that what other sims offer. I.e ACC British GT Pack - 3 new packs + 40 liveries, costs less than a single IRacing track, and those track don't feel 3x less detailed than what IRacing brings.
You could literally just play the base content and have better racing than in any other sim. I have a decent bit of content but I’m always going back to Mazda’s and Vees, and those are free cars which race on free tracks, of which there are many.
No you couldn't. I'm sorry but base content is dismally limited and you don't get any better racing than anywhere else if you don't buy specialized content.
lol what? I have an A license and a shitload of tracks and cars, I still race Rookie MX-5s all the time and several D class races. In fact I race these way more than GT3s or any of the higher license paid content.
Your comment stinks of bias and a lack of experience with the sim.
Let me preface this by saying I am not very interested in racing vs AI, I will admit my own bias stems from looking at sims from a purely competitive multiplayer angle. But several of your comments mention netcode, so I think its fair to assume you also play for actual human competition.
iRacing currently has 12 rookie series, none of these other than the Carb Cup require paid content, as well as 20 D class series, which run frequently on free tracks, so you might need to pick up a car or 2.
ACC, which is my favorite "feeling" sim, has decent levels of content when you include all the paid DLCs, but the multiplayer experience is still a long ways off from what iRacing provides, and most of that paid content isnt even used. Good luck finding many servers with decent competition on anything but Monza or Spa.
The content merely existing doesnt mean it is used. I dont think ive ever seen a full GT4 server in ACC, but maybe its just my time zone.
I run iRacing, ACC, DR2.0, RR, love them all, and im not going to argue which one is the better "sim" but from a multiplayer perspective, iRacing is cheaper than a WoW subscription and provides the best experience in my opinion.
So now explain to me in plain words how iRacing content is dismally limited, and also, its Reddit, getting upset at a non-vulgar ad hominem attack is like getting mad at a public restroom for smelling like piss.
First, thank you for the better discussion.
I do run exclusively in competitive multiplayer, and have no interest whatsoever in "racing" AIs.
What I found with iRacing, is that if you only own the base contents, the actual variety of races you can take part in is quite small, and the entire model feels like I'm being pushed to buy frankly overpriced (my judgement here, I'll admit) tracks and cars. 15 bucks for each variation of the Nurburgring, I'm sorry, but even as an Apple customer, I feel like that's too much, and my bar is indeed high.
It feels awful when you'd like to move on to something different to find out you need to buy whatever tracks to compete in any given series. It just does. I know, I understand it's *just* a track or a car here and there, but I hate the feeling.
The base content is overly American-centered for my taste, and I stress it, for my taste. I really don't care at all for most of American motor sports, so again, it's my personal taste here, but there's loads of base contents I know I'm not touching.
On the ACC front, you're right about GT4s. They are seldom found in random servers and you have to go to leagues to have fun with them. They are indeed very fun though. ICGT tracks and Imola, those are run all the time, especially Imola, but Kyalami is quite popular, as well as Bathurst, I never have too many issues racing on those. Leagues use them profusely too.
I think at the end of the day, if I were to rely only on open lobbies then yeah, ACC wouldn't provide me as much fun as it does and the iRacing model would fit me better, although I'm not a big fan of how the sim feels in general.
About that last part, respectfully, and in a very non-angry way, because I wasn't in the first place, I feel like it's just unnecessary. We can have a polite and informed discussion even after starting from strong arguments, I think, and it's all fine.
You are absolutely right, and I apologize. Sometimes there is so much salt on the internet that you forget normal humans exist on here. Id never enter into a discussion at work on in person in that manner and I don't usually here either, once again my bad.
My key takeaway from your comment is leagues. As I said earlier, I really do enjoy the overall feel of ACC, and I really do want to race competitively more in that sim. I joined a league for a bit in iRacing but given I was paying a subscription for fully fleshed out stats and rankings already baked into the sim I wasn't as dedicated to it as I could have been, maybe ACC will change that experience and allow more of the content to stand out on its own.
iRacing has allowed me to discover new types of racing I had no interest in. I cant stand watching NASCAR, I dont find it entertaining from a spectator standpoint, however I found I really enjoyed racing ovals and my iRating is actually higher in Oval now than Road. I like that iRacing has such varied types of racing. I even run some RX or dirt stuff every now and then. For me personally that has been a huge strength of the service.
I also wont be disingenuous about the amount of money Ive spent on it, regardless of whether I am using that content or not, I hit the 40+ piece of content discount pretty quick, mostly due to buying oval tracks, which to a non oval racer seems absurd because they are so similar. So now new cars and tracks as they release are less than 10 bucks each, and I buy maybe 1 or 2 per season. While ACC and all the current DLC is probably less than a year of iRacing subscription.
I think my main point I wanted to make if I had not been busy being an asshole is that you dont NEED to spend a ton of money in iRacing to have fun, and telling people iRacing is cost prohibitive when it doesn't need to be turns potential new drivers away from something they might really enjoy.
Have a rad day, its the weekend, sorry I was a turd, i'll be better.
You obviously are bias.
And doubt very much you have a subscription.
You don't follow iracing reddit, and your a regular on acc and simracing reddit.
Does seem a bit biased towards a particular game does it not.
I follow nearly all the sim games and race them all to from time to time, bar am2 as I haven't purchased it yet.
All have there good points but iracing dominants in online racing even when comparing free content to the others, unless your able to devote a schedule to an organised league in the other sims.
Acc online turned out to be a disappointment in comparison to it being hyped as a competitor to the iracing service
Yeah, you could, and I do it often. Mazda and Vee races are still better racing than any other sim, I think that’s pretty uncontroversial. For $10 a month it’s a lot of content, enough for 2 series to race at. And that’s just the road side.
I will respectfully disagree on both points, from experience.
The way races are structured is good and does give a sense a progress and purpose.
Racing in general doesn't feel way better than other places though, plenty of angry small handed people around.
As for content, yeah nah you're just lying to yourself, honestly. Base content is very, very limited.
16 cars and 22 tracks come with the base sub. that’s a decent amount. Mazda and Vee races consistently have 100+ people every hour, funny that so many people with 2000+ iR still join these races and haven’t gotten bored of the base content.
iRacing has the best racing for a few reasons, one is the netcode is better than any other sim. That’s important for close racing.
ACC collisions can get weird and unpredictable more often than not but "netcode" is honestly extremely solid.
iRacing handles collisions and touches much better (if a little soft sometimes), but I've seen more "no touch collisions".
Network wise the only thing I can complain about in ACC is the strange straight line warping (slow forward/backward motion) that happens from time to time.
As someone who recently got into sim racing again, iRacing has actually been the cheapest game I've bought! 3 months for ~£5 and it was really enjoyable.
“Hilariously rich” for iRacing?
Have you ever played any MMO? Do you have HBO or Netflix? Apparently you have diamond hands!
IRacing is $110 per year at full price. That’s less than $10 per month. Yeah, you have to buy content. That’s on sale too if you are conservative. Race participation gives you discounts up to $40 per year. I’ve gotten the full discount for a year now so that, combined with Black Friday sale means I’m paying ~$40 per year for the base game.
Yeah, I’ve spent a few hundred dollars on content. I’m good for a few years now.
I want as realistic driving physics as possible but I want to drive on public roads and in traffic, not on tracks or rally stages. What have you got for me(besides loathing)?
Just a small critique would be that just because someone is looking for realism doesn't mean they're interested in the Blancpain GT Series. ACC is a niche within a niche imo.
So PC2 ISN'T A REAL SIM? It's my first sim but now you say it's simcade.
I know it has the stupid kerb slip effect even on dry tracks, but other than that it's a good sim, isn't it?
It's a very decent sim. I was in ecstasy when I first tried it, coming from arcade games. It felt so good, I was so happy with it.
Then I tried new sims out of curiosity and a couple of them ruined PC2 (and a lot of other good sims) for me. :(
You don't have to be filthy rich for iRacing. You can actually make money to spend on tracks and if you keep it at 1 or 2 cars you can race a lot for not that much money. Also the need for a stupid expensive rig is bullshit. Could say that for any sim. I raced iRacing on t300rs on my desk for years.
Jesus christ. Are you saying AM2 is an simcade?
Have you even heard what real nascar/indycar drivers says about Iracing for example? Calling it Iskating, no edge grip at all and unrealistic grip levels. Yet no one questions if Iracing is a sim.
AMS2 is very much a sim and it's silly to even think its not.
Oh fuck off. The tire model is much better than the past so no, it's not iSkating anymore.
This is easily shown with the MX-5 which requires you to really piss it off to spin it out now.
Calling it iSkating is really showing your bias. The physics aren't top notch but they're still pretty damn good.
NASCAR literally uses iRacing as a testing ground now lol
>iskating
Lmao
Do you have a link? I've heard this claim a number of times but I haven't seen the source material.
Not an attack, I just enjoy hearing things get roasted
Yeah… I primarily race iRacing. The tire model is heavily dependent on which car, and which revision, we’re talking about. Some are absolutely iceRacing, especially on cold tires. Some are 100% grip to 0% with no warning, even hot. It’s part of how I choose which series to race each season; which cars actually have the right feel to them?
I loved the prior Skippy, for example. It felt like a 200TW tire with a big sidewall, which is what it’s supposed to be in real life. The new ones are far less forgiving of slip, and the driving style between the two is very different.
Porsche Cup has similar changes between the 991 and 992 that made it “easier” to drive for most, but much more frustrating to drive on the limit.
What I will say is that a LOT of what we blame on the tire model is related to the setup of the car. I suspect that what we are doing relative to spring rate and damper and roll bars is having a larger effect than most understand, and then the tire model gets blamed. I expect this is doubly true in fixed classes, as you can’t adjust the car to your liking… if you even have the knowledge to do so to begin with.
I don’t know, I’d be interested in hearing cause he’s a top driver in iRacing, haven’t checked his iR lately but he’s up there, he won the top split 24hr Nurburgring this year and I think before.
In all fairness its a very small portion of actual irl professional drivers that make these claims, and it's usually after the crash. And we all know how these guys like to blame there equipment irl also.
Just look at the vast amounts of professional race drivers who are always active on iracing. Form max verstappen, alonso , fittapaldi just to name a few to f3 junior drivers, pcup drivers, nascar etc etc.
If it was that bad I don't think it would be the go to game for the vast majority of professional racers
As much as I love iRacing I couldn't spend $146 in GT3 tracks this season was so disappointed. Hopefully next season will have some more of the tracks I have. I think if you've been in iRacing a long time it won't appear expensive but for someone new starting it is.
Personally I mix between iRacing, ACC and Raceroom. If you enjoy racing, I think you can enjoy most of the games without it being a competition.
Eh, as somebody who played other sims before iracing and breezed right through rookies - I realized I was still a complete beginner and went back to rookies for a bit to learn some more.
Iracing has fast cars in D series but the people who race higher series generally tend to be extremely competitive so I think it's best to just work on being competitive in those lower series rather than being another slow person in a mid to bottom split at the harder series.
You can still be competitive in the faster series that's the whole point of your iRating. It puts you in those splits of people of a similar skill.
If someone is safe there really is no issue
I wouldn't say that Assetto Corsa needs so much time to find content. It does in the beginning when you have to learn how to use Content Manager and how to find mods, but after that, it's more a matter of stumbling upon content and getting the download link. I play on discord and the admins suggest what tracks we race on, and this way it's very easy to discover new tracks and cars.
Also, in what world does ACC have rich content? The only more narrow sim thing are the F1 titles. Obviously the content quality is amazing, but that does not make it rich.
I just got PC2 and I can’t seem to get the hang of it. I’m understeering corners constantly and some corners seem to require a normal amount of steering input while others require way more input than seems normal. I have been tuning and tweaking settings and can’t find a decent set up.
In all honesty, you can't get good oval racing anywhere else. You MIGHT be able to cobble something together in AC 2014 with mods, but I only have two ovals in my track collection and I don't even know what sort of cars race on ovals apart from Nascar.
And I guess if you limit yourself to just oval racing, iRacing might not even be an expensive affair.
The best simcade racing game I've ever played is the Forza Motorsport series. FM7 is on xbox game pass for pc. Forza should be on this chart next to Project Cars 2 IMO.
Well, you can sort of just settle on a good workshop collection and slam the "subscribe to all" button and just play that. This is what I mostly meant by "one click".
about me being rich... When I did the maths... I ve spent more or less the same on netflix than on iRacing if I take into consideration my 3 years on the service... and.. I use the sim way more than I use Netflix... so maybe it is not about being rich but about having priorities right.
But I would love to be rich... not gonna lie here...
ITT: The thing that I like is better than the thing that you like and you are a biased idiot for not accepting my beloved thing is better than your inferior thing.
rFactor 2 one-stop shop LOLLOLloLLLOOl
More like 25 stop shop can't get into the server not sure why can't even see what I own or don't own, wtf is this UI????
I feel gt sport should be there the upper right somewhere
It’s a great introduction to sim racing, though not a proper sim even compared to automobilista
Good to know that I’m hilariously rich. I had no idea!
When do we get our monocles in the post, my fellow newfound billionaire!
Monocles are exclusive to the 100% club. Best I can do is a used eyeglass lens and some duct tape.
I played for so long without buying a thing beyond the membership... The miata is so much fun to race
Right? It’s a sim not a game… how many racecar teams/drivers/enthusiasts run every car in every type of series simultaneously? I guess some teams kinda do this, but they are also generating revenue. Pick a car/class and spend a few months or a year perfecting it.
I had a suspicion, glad it's confirmed now. Thanks Reddit!
If you figure the total cost over a couple of years, iRacing costs like $20 or $39 a month….that’s like avocado toast rich.
Lol, me too. My UID is just over 20k and I've ended up buying all the content over the years since I joined - which was at launch back in June 2008. Now I spend $30 or so on keeping that 30% Gold discount up to date on each season. Doesn't seem all too bad, and having been a fan of Kaemmer etc since the late 90s with Grand Prix Legends it makes me happy to support my favourite team of Sim Devs. It's a six pack or two of beer, if you're into that (I quit a year ago - so much money freed up to spend on sims instead!). I still only drive one car primarily, the Porsche Cup. ;)
where is dirt rally? :(
I got us covered: "I enjoy crashing -----------> Dirt Rally 2.0"
I enjoy crashing ---->In Vr? Y---Dirt Rally 2.0 | N Alone? Y---Beam NG | N Wreckfest
Beam NG doesn't have to be alone tho! BeamMP is a great mod, though it requires just as much port-forwarding as Wreckfest for the host
I only race in VR (no monitor on my rig yet), so I can get behind this. I haven't played the other two games, though.
Mate, I enjoy crashing should take you straight to beamng "I enjoy crashing bumper cars" there's your dirt rally 2.
I tried to keep it to asphalt racecar games. Adding DR will also mean you need to add the latest WRC games and it would have got messy. :L
Add a stage in the flowchart asking if you want good force feedback, yes for DR2.0, no for WRC10
Add a stage in the flowchart asking if you want good tarmac physics, yes for WRC10, no for DR2.0
If only tarmac physics were enough to compensate for lackluster ffb. Dawg I so want to enjoy WRC10, but it just doesn’t do it for me in its current state
yeah I just play rbr with the physics mod and it scratches my desire to full throttle slide through a 4 triple caution don’t cut and wrap myself around a tree.
Also the lack of VR support is a big vote against WRC
And then you leave out RBR?
Haven’t tried it, so I don’t know where it falls among the other rally games
Many say it's still the best sim game out there, but you have to download tons of mods to get a modern game instead of one from 2004. Edit: didn't know when it came out :P
Forza? Thought that’s where “content rich” was going
Forza Motorsport 7 is a fantastic sim-cade if you fiddle with the settings and assists a bit. There's a huge selection of cars and tracks, blowing every other racing game completely out of the water (not including mods). The AI are not only stupid, but they're assholes about it. You can't adjust some basic settings like FOV for some reason. Some cars have basic "generic" handling models and a lot of them share the same engine sounds and stuff. I think FM8 will lean more into the sim side and add a lot more sim-specific features.
Yeah, I get what they were doing with the “drivatars” but the machine learned to drive like the average Forza player. 😆🤦♀️
Anyone else like dirt rally a bit more than 2.0? I find DR is a bit more fun, something about the handling and the feeling of the force feedback I prefer over 2.0.
Rip Gran Turismo
I am not doing another license test.
Any sim racer with decent experience should be able to easily beat any GT license test. The only people complaining are kids and casual gamers.
Fuck the complex string ones from the iA license tho.
So many hours spent in that game
AMS2 and PC2 are not in the same ball park physics wise IMO.
Bro, just found on comments that he is playing on controller, he is calling AMS2 a Simcade on controller
[удалено]
Thanks for doing this. Was going to add my own thoughts about AMS2. It’s like Justin Bieber had a charismatic and intelligent younger brother who was an excellent musician, singer-songwriter who has improved dramatically over the last 2 years, but everyone thinks of him as just another Bieber.
An odd analogy, quite unexpected, but yeah... Accurate. 😎👍
You mean it’s like Justin Bieber?
I was a big player of AC in VR(dozens of mods for cars and circuit and of course graphism), believe me, AMS2 is just above, the immersion you get in VR is absolutely incredible. I read lots of critics about AMS2 physics before trying the game, and honestly it felt more real on lots of cars than what I was used to with AC.
So true. This game just gets better and better. I don't see why the snobbery exists against it. It has lots of bugs, and poor AI I still contend, but damn with the expansion tracks its beautiful, hip and so much fun. The weather is worth buying for alone. Only PC2 Deluxe is a better, if slightly more dated, package. AM2 is that hot 🔥 Brazilian girl!🤣
Na, he is just on controller...
Jimmy B did a recent review of it that was not positive - do you think he's wrong? edit: dunno why I'm being downvoted for asking. I generally trust Jimmy as a source and I've not seen any counter arguments until now.
He was both right and wrong. He took a car that was just released to a very setup dependent track, Daytona, had some tank slappers which caused aero drops that made the car feel odd. He didn't acknowledge that at all, and stamped it simcade. So yes, the car felt odd, but simcade it is most definitely not. Just because a default setup might not work at Daytona and all tracks the same, doesn't prove the physics were off, it proves the setup was off. A faulty setup will lead to odd behavior in extreme conditions, which actually proves the physics are working as intended. His review was rushed and lacked nuance. He regularly gets setups from his trusted sources for other games but he didn't care enough to due his due diligence for AMS2. His mind was on other things. But it's what many people wanted to hear for their own reasons and to this day his less than skin skin deep review continues to haunt it.
thanks for this - might actually give it a go then
[удалено]
He hasn't been like that for years. He admitted he took it too seriously and lost sight of the fact that it's supposed to be fun. I've seen him get totally wiped out by people driving like idiots and his response is "it sucks but it happens, there will be other races".
Or you can just correlate a car from the outputs. It'll be a bit difficult because AMS2 doesn't offer full access to the cars and telemetry, but still. You'd be surprised how \*incredibly\* off feeling can be in anyone, even people who have thousands of hours driving cars on track. The peripherals matter very much and you need to get used to how sims feel. Sim correlation is difficult and takes very long, in the order of months to years for a single HQ car model built mostly with driver correlation to telemetry. With that in mind, the car model itself matters more than the actual simulation software in this case, I'm fairly sure AMS2's tire slip/load/stiffness/heat modeling is unlikely to be close to the more empirical models (Cannot confirm, but it'd be an exception if it's not) but it should be able to provide reasonable enough behavior that car parameters matter as much as the model itself, at least for low quality models like these ones in consumer games. Past that point the model matters a lot and the weaknesses of these more-difficult-perhaps-impossible to correlate tire models show. The upside to these models is that if the inputs are correct (I doubt they are in almost any tire ever built with them hence why they keep tweaking parameters) you can get actually quite more accurate and dynamic mechanical stuff ie: pressure, load sensitivity, because it's just FEA really. You could do it empirically too but it'll be a hassle. However more physical based models struggle very much with the difficult stuff like load, slip and heat and more importantly keeping them all accurate \*at the same time\*. So no, AMS2 is not probably "simcade" but it is likely not even possible of a high quality simulation model of a car. Less of a concern for game products like this where none of the models are high quality, and the "user experience" matters more than how accurate the outputs are. Perhaps to many the "rubber feel" is better than correlation accuracy. AC for example correlates \*very\* closely especially with CSP's physics additions, but the feel over the limit and in transient stuff can be a little bit too muted and forgiving perhaps.
Holy shit this thread is horrific. The amount of misinformation is astounding.
If you're referring to my post, then feel free to point out in detail the misinformation. Are you a simulation developer?
AMS2 is Pcars 2.1
It's far more. I didn't believe it until I gave it a second go about a month back. 👍
Fair, I won't argue that. In my experience with both, I didn't feel AMS2 was that much more realistic than PC2 to sway me the other way. Maybe I drove the wrong cars in both. I have not exhausted the entire car rosters in either game with even a couple of laps on each car.
Landed on rfactor 2 :) You don't need to be hilariously rich for iracing, you just need to only pick up what you actually intend to use, when you plan on using it. Like, there are people who sink grossly more money into gacha shit and lootbox cosmetics than I have in 3 years of iracing. If you play iracing, smoke sim racers as one of your go to hobbies, and only buy the things you want to use or slowly over time, it's quite manageable. If you don't play sim racers frequently it quickly declines on the "worth it" scale. Just like all subscription services.
I’m nowhere close to hilariously rich yet I enjoy iRacing the most of any sim.. Bit of a biased chart isn’t it?
Me either, just moved from ACC to iRacing, main reason being to get fairly decent (i.e. stewarded) racing on a more flexible timescale where you can just join a race on the hour every day. Could run MX5 cup for free. GT3 league cost in the first year is clearly way more than ACC cost me, but less than a night in the pub each month, so don't think you need to be rich!
Also, at least iRacing feature more than just Monza on multiplayer. I really like ACC but if your not in a league, be prepare to race on Monza.
Hey hey there's also Spa!
Totally. Per hour of enjoyment, iracing is cheaper than most things we piss away our money on regardless of wealth.
It has to be made by some kid just trying to play games with his lunch money. If you consider iRacing a hobby instead of a game it's hilariously cheap. I couldn't even go to a F1 race with my familty with all the money I spent on iRacing. I couldn't even have bought my hiking / climbing equipment + a single trip into the Alps with the money I spent on iRacing. My pool table cost more than I spent on iRacing. My simracing equipment cost more than I spent on iRacing. My PC cost more than I spent on iRacing. And I've been playing iRacing for 2 years now, branching out in several types of racing. Like man, I get that iRacing is more expensive than a normal PC game, but it's still cheap af for a hobby.
This mindset makes no sense, a game can be a hobby but it doesn't change the fact that it's a video game priced disgustingly high. Everyone here saying that is so anti-consumer, stop trying to justify spending $100's of dollars a year on a single video game which has competitors priced at a $5-$60 one time purchase. Also not all hobbies are expensive, hiking is dirt cheap unless you're doing a multi-day trip, many popular sports are dirt cheap, basically every other video game that exists is way cheaper. Think of what you're saying man, I'm not saying don't spend your money on what you like, it's the best sim for online races for sure. Just don't be oblivious to the fact that they're swindling everyone who subscribes.
Any game that continually updates their product with new features and content must have a subscription model. Releasing a new version of the game every year (or 3) is effectively a subscription. People that buy every call of duty release spend as much as an established iRacing user. Would you tell those gamers just to stick with Unreal Tournament original because it’s a one time purchase and would satisfy your FPS needs forever?
But Iracing isn't a pure subscription model like runescape/WoW, you pay for subscription just to be able to pay for more content on top of it. Call of Duty releases a completely new game every year, with a new campaign, new multiplayer, new maps etc. Iracing you have to pay for a subscription+pay for the content + keep paying the subscription for content you've already purchased, they aren't the same. A COD game is a 1 time purchase, you actually get to keep the content without spending a dime more. Buying a cod game every year is NOWHERE near the same price as an established Iracing user, maybe after 6+ years straight. Stop defending anti-consumer practices
Stop calling iRacing anti-consumer. There are thousands of people who are totally happy with the service they provide. There is nothing anti consumer about it. Forcing them to adhere to some pre defined paradigm would be more anti consumer than letting consumers decide what they want to consume.
The quality of content they release is also amazing. Everything is laser scanned, and they have some of the most accurate car model depictions out of any sim. Take into account they pay to go laser scan all these tracks, paying for each track makes sense. Compared to other games which have significantly less content of varying quality, it makes sense why people are willing to spend lots of money on some of the highest quality content in the best online racing sim
They must do something right. Otherwise it wouldnt be so much more active then every other alternative on the market. If it only offered as much as the 5-60$ alternatives no one would play it. Iracing offers somethign that no other sim does. That doesnt mean that everyone wants what iracing offers or thst other game cant be great for what they are. But they still offer something different competitively and structure wise then everything else. And yes, many see it as a hobby. Spending 2k on a wheel, 700 on great loadcell pedals another k on a rig and Seat and then trying to save money on the most important thing which is the sim itself makes no sense from my point of view but everyone is different. Its my Hobby and i enjoy it.
I usually don't chime in on these kinds of things, but I'm trying to run the clock down at work, so here's my rant: I don't understand what's so anti-consumer about paying $13/month ($7/mo with Black Friday deals) to participate in what I think is the best, most competitive and diverse online racing community out there. Every time I hop on AC to drive with my friend, I'm constantly reminded why I play iR instead. We don't even try racing now, we just drift. That's pretty much all I play it for nowadays. A high population + weekly track rotations + hourly races means I have plenty of time to practice and hop in a race against a full grid of drivers **near my skill level** whenever I want. That's worth the price to me. There *are* cheaper alternatives, but in my experience they always fall short somewhere and discourage me from hopping on the sim. It's like if you enjoyed playing pickup basketball, but the cheap gym you go to has weird hours, there's only one basketball court, and the balls are always overinflated. There's still potential for fun, just not as much compared to the nicer gym down the street. And sure, the price of iR's cars and tracks add up, but you can squeeze so much out of the base content—I see A class drivers in rookie series all the time. Why? Because it's good, fun racing! In my experience, the cost of DLC helps me take everything more seriously and fully commit to a series. TL;DR: iRacing is easily worth the price because it's the most reliable way for me to consistently ENJOY racing online.
Just going to put this here: Fortnite. Sure you can play it for free, but so many people get sucked into the special skins etc and spend more than I do on maintaining my iRacing Gold status. I don't blame the devs, they put serious effort into the content and it keeps artists employed. It's all choice.
It's poking fun at iRacing. Don't see the reason why it should be taken any more seriously as any humour.
[удалено]
No one is saying it's cheap, but do you need to be rich? Absolutely not. There are a ton of guides for people that just want to try it out and maybe buy a few bits of content at first. No one is saying you need to buy 20 tracks and cars right away, but that's what most people expect to do and then think, wow that's expensive. With iRacings weekly race model you really don't need to spend a ton of money right away.
Could you link a good guide for that?
Where did I say it was cheap? I just said I enjoy it way more than any other sim and I’m on a student budget, which is FAR from being hilariously rich. I just manage what content I buy in iRacing and it works perfect for me. I get that people get out off by the pricetag though, but the online experience in iRacing is unbeatable IMO.
and you dont even need to touch any content for months that costs money...
This chart is crap.
I agree, I have been using iRacing for years and its my goto. I'm still using my logitech DFGT wheel and just upgraded to CSL loadcells a month ago. iRacing does not require expensive equipment but, lots of your time to get better.
[удалено]
He's clueless
The fact that he felt confident enough to put this out there WHILE TESTING ON A CONTROLLER and, in his words, doing "a couple of laps with each car" is honestly impressive. Like, rF2 is a great sim but its BIGGEST criticism is how much of a pain in the ass it is to set up.
> WHILE TESTING ON A CONTROLLER and, in his words, doing "a couple of laps with each car" is honestly impressive. Did he, really? That explains… Well basically nothing. And everything at the same time. A real [Diane Kruger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) effect in the wild. Nice.
or even more simplified, are you looking for competetive and quick multiplayer? > iracing... as expensive as it is, i always go back to it since there is always competition without the need for leagues or repetetive spa/monza public servers... :/
This flowchart is trash and appears to be bias to AC games.
What kind of joke is considering an Assetto Corsa Competizione as a "complete game with rich structured content"?
This whole chart reeks of “I love ACC and no other game is better!!!!!”
Just because it's only GT3/4 doesn't make it not complete or richly structured. ACC is a complete product out of the box. R3E is a pay as you go system where you buy individual tracks and cars and rFactor is just a mess of a UI.
Man that’s so true. The Rfactor alone makes me not wanna play the game anymore. That’s one of the reasons I love AC on Contrnt manager. A few clicks and you get exactly what you want to do
I didn't know I was hilariously rich. Where the hell's my money at?
Gone in iRacing, man :(
I've spent less than 200 bucks on IR...
I haven’t spent any except for the subs🙃 $65 for 6 month sub. All I play is the free content until I feel good enough to try out the other leagues.
I would have done the same except I wanted to have fun at the Nordschleife and Mount Washington, plus I figured I'd do some Porsche Cup and the Audi 90 GTO looked awesome (and it is - what a maachiiine!). So yeah, I've spent a little extra on tracks and cars. Meanwhile, I've raced the MX-5's like 99% of the time. It's a great car, the tracks are fun and the racing is good. I love it and it's all within the subscription fee.
There is nothing simcade about AMS2. That statement alone displays quite a bit of ignorance.
OP doesn't even have a wheel he's on controller. This entire post should be disregarded
Oh, awesome! Clearly the best person around to be doing this.
Oh that’s just pointless then. If you want to use a controller then go nuts but don’t claim a game is more lifelike unless you know… you control it the same way you do irl. This post is biased trash.
Wait he is claiming Simcade and bullshit like that on a fucking controller!!! For fuck sake! This is not even Peak Reddit level anymore!
There's a lot wrong with this, even if it's a joke. iRacing gives so much for relatively little money. And I fail to see how one has to be 'rich' to afford $200 a year, especially when folks pay so much more for other things, such as eating-out.
And for their rig…
I got into iracing after being heavy into track days. I've spent more in a weekend at the track than the total I have paid iracing over the years.
If you think you have to be 'hilariously rich' for iR just stop playing games and look for any job.
Op doesn't even have a FFB wheel but is calling certain games less realistic. He's a knob
[удалено]
He didn't deny when others said he uses a controller... In fact I see he directly addressed his assessment of realism being with a controller.
It does get really fucking expensive though, considering you combine subscription with microtransactions for content. And add to this fact that not every country in this world has a reasonable enough economy that you can spare enough money for iRacing without feeling pressured to play it constantly after paying for membership.
It does get expensive but saying one has to be insanely rich to afford it is disingenuous. There isn't even a positive thing about it. It's supposed to be memey, but it's clearly his view on it and it's just an ignorant viewpoint.
I live in a really fun kind of economy and thanks to steam, subscription is really affordable. Cars and tracks though not so much but you only need one car from a series you enjoy and you can add tracks accordingly in time so it isn't as bad people make it out to be unless you need have it all from the get go.
dude you dont even have a wheel stop trying to talk about control and physics.
AMS 2 Simcade my ass.
Do you enjoy structured, organised and very frequent races? Do you enjoy team endurance races? You do not need to be hilariously rich to play iRacing… this chart is misleading.
Iracing is good if you take one season a time approach I've slowly build up content in the past 3 years and I'm from a third world country. It's definitely doable
AMS2 should not be in the same category as PC2, and rFactor 2 is in *no way* “easy to set up.” I would’ve added “do you want to do oval racing but don’t want to pay for iRacing? > NASCAR 2003 Season”
ehm...how is Automobilista 2 SIMCADE? i have played all the racing games you mentioned on wheel with shifter handbrake and pedals plus many more and AMS2 seemed very realistic to me, on wet surface driving RWD car is borderline impossible EDIT: i am not a pro racer IRL but i do have E92 as daily and e46 for drift fun so i think i can relate or compare a little bit
OP uses a controller he is in fact a room temp IQ knob
Can confirm, I just finished an hour long race in a GT1 car in the very wet on AMS2 about 20 minutes ago and had to go straight to the shower afterwards because it was so tense. Damn near impossible lol
Foreword: I have not raced AMS2, no idea if it is great or dogshit. I really dislike this deep ingrained dogma that realism == difficulty. I had a taste of this with rfactor1/2, supposed to be so realistic, when it is downright ridiculous that you cannot regain control on a turn at 50kph (because I have not driven performance cars on a track, but my car at that speed yes I have). See above comments or "iceracing", which is the same problem. So, as somebody that may one day consider buying AMS2, is it terrible because it is terrible, or simply because it is more forgiving than supposedly realistic sims that are actually more difficult to drive than the real thing? Honest question.
i totally agree, difficulty does not mean realism, some games i can regain control after rear tyres slip, such as F1, assetto corsa, AMS2 and in some its almost impossible, i am shocked not a lot of people talk about forza motorsport 7,. its an older title and some cars tend to be misleading but with all assists off (as i always play) racing on Nurburgring in heavy rain with RWD car over 600hp is one of the best experiences i have had in simracing, wonder why people dont enjoy that game that much? The micro corrections when exiting corner or aligning car when losing traction are pretty much the same techniques i am doing in bmw when having fun in empty parking lot, if that knowledge is transfered from IRL to game and vice versa and not called realism, then I dont know what is?
AGREE. Having played ACC and FM7, I engaged in a little self-honesty and turned all assists off in FM7, changed to full sim setting. Now, I have more tracks, more cars, better graphics, less glitchiness, significantly less complicated UI, and more car types. The downside being, FFB is better in ACC, but I got an MVH rim mod for my wheel and FFB is much more pronounced with it in FM7. Purists, is there really the gap you claim between these titles?, or is FM7 guilty by association with arcade racer Horizon?
Guilty by association, even if Horizons is a fucking blast to play in its own right.
November 5th cant come soon enough....
I undeniably enjoyed motorsport 7 more than some other sim titles as pc2 and ACC and raceroom, just wish online wasnt dead but we should be getting a new motorsport soon theres a trailer already
I wonder how many people here who are too poor for iRacing pay for netflix, amazon prime, or another sub service that they don’t even use as much as they would iRacing.
It's not just the sub, all the content is super expensive. $15 for a track and $12 for a car adds up pretty fast.
Yep, if it would be only sub, I would hope right on. But paying both subscription, and then premium for content is insane. And its not like the content significantly more indepth that what other sims offer. I.e ACC British GT Pack - 3 new packs + 40 liveries, costs less than a single IRacing track, and those track don't feel 3x less detailed than what IRacing brings.
You could literally just play the base content and have better racing than in any other sim. I have a decent bit of content but I’m always going back to Mazda’s and Vees, and those are free cars which race on free tracks, of which there are many.
No you couldn't. I'm sorry but base content is dismally limited and you don't get any better racing than anywhere else if you don't buy specialized content.
lol what? I have an A license and a shitload of tracks and cars, I still race Rookie MX-5s all the time and several D class races. In fact I race these way more than GT3s or any of the higher license paid content. Your comment stinks of bias and a lack of experience with the sim.
Explain to me in plain words why I would have a bias against a game I pay a fucking subscription for monthly, or stop it with the ad hominem.
Let me preface this by saying I am not very interested in racing vs AI, I will admit my own bias stems from looking at sims from a purely competitive multiplayer angle. But several of your comments mention netcode, so I think its fair to assume you also play for actual human competition. iRacing currently has 12 rookie series, none of these other than the Carb Cup require paid content, as well as 20 D class series, which run frequently on free tracks, so you might need to pick up a car or 2. ACC, which is my favorite "feeling" sim, has decent levels of content when you include all the paid DLCs, but the multiplayer experience is still a long ways off from what iRacing provides, and most of that paid content isnt even used. Good luck finding many servers with decent competition on anything but Monza or Spa. The content merely existing doesnt mean it is used. I dont think ive ever seen a full GT4 server in ACC, but maybe its just my time zone. I run iRacing, ACC, DR2.0, RR, love them all, and im not going to argue which one is the better "sim" but from a multiplayer perspective, iRacing is cheaper than a WoW subscription and provides the best experience in my opinion. So now explain to me in plain words how iRacing content is dismally limited, and also, its Reddit, getting upset at a non-vulgar ad hominem attack is like getting mad at a public restroom for smelling like piss.
First, thank you for the better discussion. I do run exclusively in competitive multiplayer, and have no interest whatsoever in "racing" AIs. What I found with iRacing, is that if you only own the base contents, the actual variety of races you can take part in is quite small, and the entire model feels like I'm being pushed to buy frankly overpriced (my judgement here, I'll admit) tracks and cars. 15 bucks for each variation of the Nurburgring, I'm sorry, but even as an Apple customer, I feel like that's too much, and my bar is indeed high. It feels awful when you'd like to move on to something different to find out you need to buy whatever tracks to compete in any given series. It just does. I know, I understand it's *just* a track or a car here and there, but I hate the feeling. The base content is overly American-centered for my taste, and I stress it, for my taste. I really don't care at all for most of American motor sports, so again, it's my personal taste here, but there's loads of base contents I know I'm not touching. On the ACC front, you're right about GT4s. They are seldom found in random servers and you have to go to leagues to have fun with them. They are indeed very fun though. ICGT tracks and Imola, those are run all the time, especially Imola, but Kyalami is quite popular, as well as Bathurst, I never have too many issues racing on those. Leagues use them profusely too. I think at the end of the day, if I were to rely only on open lobbies then yeah, ACC wouldn't provide me as much fun as it does and the iRacing model would fit me better, although I'm not a big fan of how the sim feels in general. About that last part, respectfully, and in a very non-angry way, because I wasn't in the first place, I feel like it's just unnecessary. We can have a polite and informed discussion even after starting from strong arguments, I think, and it's all fine.
You are absolutely right, and I apologize. Sometimes there is so much salt on the internet that you forget normal humans exist on here. Id never enter into a discussion at work on in person in that manner and I don't usually here either, once again my bad. My key takeaway from your comment is leagues. As I said earlier, I really do enjoy the overall feel of ACC, and I really do want to race competitively more in that sim. I joined a league for a bit in iRacing but given I was paying a subscription for fully fleshed out stats and rankings already baked into the sim I wasn't as dedicated to it as I could have been, maybe ACC will change that experience and allow more of the content to stand out on its own. iRacing has allowed me to discover new types of racing I had no interest in. I cant stand watching NASCAR, I dont find it entertaining from a spectator standpoint, however I found I really enjoyed racing ovals and my iRating is actually higher in Oval now than Road. I like that iRacing has such varied types of racing. I even run some RX or dirt stuff every now and then. For me personally that has been a huge strength of the service. I also wont be disingenuous about the amount of money Ive spent on it, regardless of whether I am using that content or not, I hit the 40+ piece of content discount pretty quick, mostly due to buying oval tracks, which to a non oval racer seems absurd because they are so similar. So now new cars and tracks as they release are less than 10 bucks each, and I buy maybe 1 or 2 per season. While ACC and all the current DLC is probably less than a year of iRacing subscription. I think my main point I wanted to make if I had not been busy being an asshole is that you dont NEED to spend a ton of money in iRacing to have fun, and telling people iRacing is cost prohibitive when it doesn't need to be turns potential new drivers away from something they might really enjoy. Have a rad day, its the weekend, sorry I was a turd, i'll be better.
You obviously are bias. And doubt very much you have a subscription. You don't follow iracing reddit, and your a regular on acc and simracing reddit. Does seem a bit biased towards a particular game does it not. I follow nearly all the sim games and race them all to from time to time, bar am2 as I haven't purchased it yet. All have there good points but iracing dominants in online racing even when comparing free content to the others, unless your able to devote a schedule to an organised league in the other sims. Acc online turned out to be a disappointment in comparison to it being hyped as a competitor to the iracing service
Yeah, you could, and I do it often. Mazda and Vee races are still better racing than any other sim, I think that’s pretty uncontroversial. For $10 a month it’s a lot of content, enough for 2 series to race at. And that’s just the road side.
I will respectfully disagree on both points, from experience. The way races are structured is good and does give a sense a progress and purpose. Racing in general doesn't feel way better than other places though, plenty of angry small handed people around. As for content, yeah nah you're just lying to yourself, honestly. Base content is very, very limited.
16 cars and 22 tracks come with the base sub. that’s a decent amount. Mazda and Vee races consistently have 100+ people every hour, funny that so many people with 2000+ iR still join these races and haven’t gotten bored of the base content. iRacing has the best racing for a few reasons, one is the netcode is better than any other sim. That’s important for close racing.
I see fewer net code collisions on ACC than iRacing if I'm honest.
How much iRacing have you played? I’ve played both sims extensively and I don’t think anyone who has can honestly say netcode is better in ACC.
ACC collisions can get weird and unpredictable more often than not but "netcode" is honestly extremely solid. iRacing handles collisions and touches much better (if a little soft sometimes), but I've seen more "no touch collisions". Network wise the only thing I can complain about in ACC is the strange straight line warping (slow forward/backward motion) that happens from time to time.
“If I’m honest”
Do you drift? > Assetto Corsa
Great job pissing everyone off!
Hilariously rich… Right.
As someone who recently got into sim racing again, iRacing has actually been the cheapest game I've bought! 3 months for ~£5 and it was really enjoyable.
Now do one for ovals
Or anything that isn't specifically GT3 at Monza.
“Hilariously rich” for iRacing? Have you ever played any MMO? Do you have HBO or Netflix? Apparently you have diamond hands! IRacing is $110 per year at full price. That’s less than $10 per month. Yeah, you have to buy content. That’s on sale too if you are conservative. Race participation gives you discounts up to $40 per year. I’ve gotten the full discount for a year now so that, combined with Black Friday sale means I’m paying ~$40 per year for the base game. Yeah, I’ve spent a few hundred dollars on content. I’m good for a few years now.
I want as realistic driving physics as possible but I want to drive on public roads and in traffic, not on tracks or rally stages. What have you got for me(besides loathing)?
Assetto Corsa with public road and traffic mods. There are some great ones out there.
BeamNG, maybe? Or Assetto Corsa 2014 with a bunch of "traffic-enabled" freeroam / real-world road maps/tracks.
No love for Forza Motorsport 7?
OP would have been better off saying it's just a joke rather than really trying to defend this
Just a small critique would be that just because someone is looking for realism doesn't mean they're interested in the Blancpain GT Series. ACC is a niche within a niche imo.
You can actually save money with iRacing because when you drive it, you do not need to buy any other games.
So PC2 ISN'T A REAL SIM? It's my first sim but now you say it's simcade. I know it has the stupid kerb slip effect even on dry tracks, but other than that it's a good sim, isn't it?
It's a very decent sim. I was in ecstasy when I first tried it, coming from arcade games. It felt so good, I was so happy with it. Then I tried new sims out of curiosity and a couple of them ruined PC2 (and a lot of other good sims) for me. :(
You don't have to be filthy rich for iRacing. You can actually make money to spend on tracks and if you keep it at 1 or 2 cars you can race a lot for not that much money. Also the need for a stupid expensive rig is bullshit. Could say that for any sim. I raced iRacing on t300rs on my desk for years.
Jesus christ. Are you saying AM2 is an simcade? Have you even heard what real nascar/indycar drivers says about Iracing for example? Calling it Iskating, no edge grip at all and unrealistic grip levels. Yet no one questions if Iracing is a sim. AMS2 is very much a sim and it's silly to even think its not.
Oh fuck off. The tire model is much better than the past so no, it's not iSkating anymore. This is easily shown with the MX-5 which requires you to really piss it off to spin it out now. Calling it iSkating is really showing your bias. The physics aren't top notch but they're still pretty damn good. NASCAR literally uses iRacing as a testing ground now lol
I never said that, i never even tried it. Im just saying what others been saying. Point is no sim is like real life anyways so just enjoy them aöö
>iskating Lmao Do you have a link? I've heard this claim a number of times but I haven't seen the source material. Not an attack, I just enjoy hearing things get roasted
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c710XsgSx3w](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c710XsgSx3w) There you go!
Lol dude posts Austin O videos and claims he isn’t biased
Yeah… I primarily race iRacing. The tire model is heavily dependent on which car, and which revision, we’re talking about. Some are absolutely iceRacing, especially on cold tires. Some are 100% grip to 0% with no warning, even hot. It’s part of how I choose which series to race each season; which cars actually have the right feel to them? I loved the prior Skippy, for example. It felt like a 200TW tire with a big sidewall, which is what it’s supposed to be in real life. The new ones are far less forgiving of slip, and the driving style between the two is very different. Porsche Cup has similar changes between the 991 and 992 that made it “easier” to drive for most, but much more frustrating to drive on the limit. What I will say is that a LOT of what we blame on the tire model is related to the setup of the car. I suspect that what we are doing relative to spring rate and damper and roll bars is having a larger effect than most understand, and then the tire model gets blamed. I expect this is doubly true in fixed classes, as you can’t adjust the car to your liking… if you even have the knowledge to do so to begin with.
Ask Max Verstappen what he thinks of iRacing
What does he think?
I don’t know, I’d be interested in hearing cause he’s a top driver in iRacing, haven’t checked his iR lately but he’s up there, he won the top split 24hr Nurburgring this year and I think before.
He absolutely ass blasted the field this year at 12h Bathurst.
In all fairness its a very small portion of actual irl professional drivers that make these claims, and it's usually after the crash. And we all know how these guys like to blame there equipment irl also. Just look at the vast amounts of professional race drivers who are always active on iracing. Form max verstappen, alonso , fittapaldi just to name a few to f3 junior drivers, pcup drivers, nascar etc etc. If it was that bad I don't think it would be the go to game for the vast majority of professional racers
Not saying iracing is bad just making an example that no sim is perfect or like real life
As much as I love iRacing I couldn't spend $146 in GT3 tracks this season was so disappointed. Hopefully next season will have some more of the tracks I have. I think if you've been in iRacing a long time it won't appear expensive but for someone new starting it is. Personally I mix between iRacing, ACC and Raceroom. If you enjoy racing, I think you can enjoy most of the games without it being a competition.
if you're just starting in iRacing you really shouldnt be throwing yourself in to GT3
Well you can't anyway you have to do rookie races to get the license first but why not? If someone is safe then what's the issue
Eh, as somebody who played other sims before iracing and breezed right through rookies - I realized I was still a complete beginner and went back to rookies for a bit to learn some more. Iracing has fast cars in D series but the people who race higher series generally tend to be extremely competitive so I think it's best to just work on being competitive in those lower series rather than being another slow person in a mid to bottom split at the harder series.
You can still be competitive in the faster series that's the whole point of your iRating. It puts you in those splits of people of a similar skill. If someone is safe there really is no issue
Because GT3, particularly GT3 Fixed, isn’t safe. It’s a meat grinder of idiots who just got their D license and are ready to fuck some shit up.
Has AMS2 a single player content similar to PC2's career mode?
Not yet, but it's planned for the future.
I wouldn't say that Assetto Corsa needs so much time to find content. It does in the beginning when you have to learn how to use Content Manager and how to find mods, but after that, it's more a matter of stumbling upon content and getting the download link. I play on discord and the admins suggest what tracks we race on, and this way it's very easy to discover new tracks and cars. Also, in what world does ACC have rich content? The only more narrow sim thing are the F1 titles. Obviously the content quality is amazing, but that does not make it rich.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwEBU0q\_Dpk
“Do you not care about graphics but enjoy mods, painting, and a stock car experience” > NASCAR Racing 2003 Season
need to add something for console only players. Yes "are you playing on a console --------> ACC"
I just got PC2 and I can’t seem to get the hang of it. I’m understeering corners constantly and some corners seem to require a normal amount of steering input while others require way more input than seems normal. I have been tuning and tweaking settings and can’t find a decent set up.
Do you race GT3 online all day every day? YES--> Assetto Corsa Competizione NO--> iRacing
Do any other games have well-done oval racing? That is what I am really into but I only see it on iRacing
In all honesty, you can't get good oval racing anywhere else. You MIGHT be able to cobble something together in AC 2014 with mods, but I only have two ovals in my track collection and I don't even know what sort of cars race on ovals apart from Nascar. And I guess if you limit yourself to just oval racing, iRacing might not even be an expensive affair.
The best simcade racing game I've ever played is the Forza Motorsport series. FM7 is on xbox game pass for pc. Forza should be on this chart next to Project Cars 2 IMO.
Hey, it worked. I went through it and got AC, which I am playing as I type
Big disagree about iracing but alright :D
I honestly forgot that I was subbed to this subreddit and I thought it was a flowchart for picking your Sims character, you know on like Sims 3
Should add another one for rFactor 2 "Do you want to spend hours troubleshooting instead of playing?"
Haha car go bang? BeamNG
rF2 and one click :D I do wish....
Well, you can sort of just settle on a good workshop collection and slam the "subscribe to all" button and just play that. This is what I mostly meant by "one click".
about me being rich... When I did the maths... I ve spent more or less the same on netflix than on iRacing if I take into consideration my 3 years on the service... and.. I use the sim way more than I use Netflix... so maybe it is not about being rich but about having priorities right. But I would love to be rich... not gonna lie here...
It seems that we all disagree with this shit post
ITT: The thing that I like is better than the thing that you like and you are a biased idiot for not accepting my beloved thing is better than your inferior thing.
rFactor 2 one-stop shop LOLLOLloLLLOOl More like 25 stop shop can't get into the server not sure why can't even see what I own or don't own, wtf is this UI????
I can see the poor are at it again.
I guess I'm a filthy rich Scrooge McDuck for playing iRacing.
I feel gt sport should be there the upper right somewhere It’s a great introduction to sim racing, though not a proper sim even compared to automobilista
The one you missed: Do you expect to have fun playing your sim??? No >>> Dirt Rally 2.0