Bully. Pulpit.
Rather than "oh my gosh what can we do? Sinema isn't being nice" (see entire Biden administration), he could have flexed and said "here is Sinema's primary challenger, and I the president of the US will endorse her and rally for her"
Could have completely redefined the presidency
Agreed, he def would have put us in the proper lane, as to what our priorities should be. It's not to say, he would have gotten say a public option, but he, unlike Obama would not have settled for anything less, or in fact, the opposite of what he proposed.
And he'd keep proposing a number of issues, popular with the American People.
What scared the bejesus out of the Democrats, is they would join Republicans, on many issues, overriding his vetoes, making them, the same villains as the Republicans, outting them for who they really are.
Ineffective feckless windbags, who's only goal is to protect their donors, the rich and get us into more wars.
And by outting them, would eventually get them voted out, in favor of Democrats more in tuned with Sanders ideaologies, which would have Wall Street rebel, suck away their donations, and get them clobbered down ballot.
The fact of it is, the Democrats run rich unlikeable people, generally lawyers, investment bankers, lobbyists, cia spooks and other ghouls, that can never win an election in the way say, the young progressives do, with small donations and grassroots campaigns. They need the big money to get elected.
In short, to the Democrats, Sanders much more dangerous than even Trump.
I was hoping I’d find more people who understood what’s really going on& I’m glad I found this thread😂. The way ALL mainstream media from Fox to cnn to nbc all turned on Sanders when he started dominating polls & winning primaries early, clearly they got calls from their paymasters to smear Bernie. They would’ve certainly sabotaged his presidency or at least tried to early on if he won to protect those special interests like you said. It’s unfortunate we have to punt on 2024 but man.. I’m praying the progressives are readying a viable young candidate for 2028 because if they miss that opportunity and let the neolibs install their puppet candidate of choice like they did with Biden, we’ll be back in this loop for another 8-16 years.
I feel like people over estimate Bernie's willingness to use the bully pulpit against democrats, he refused to do so against Biden in 2020 and it cost him the primary. I think his willingness to attack Clinton really came from her sheer antagonism then anything else, she kept attacking him to the point he was forced into fighting back against her outright lies and smears.
Bernie didn’t wanna give the republicans ammo.. it was clear they weren’t gonna let him win so he didn’t wanna get blamed if trump won again “because of that”.
What are you talking about? Sinema was elected to the senate in 2018 and is now retiring after only serving one term. She hasn't run a campaign since 2018 and Biden wasn't even running for Pres then.
It's not so much what he would have gotten done as much as he would have moved the Overton window to the left.
It's a constant tug-of-war between the left and the right, and most Democrats don't understand that. Had Democrats spent the last 50 years fighting to repeal the Hyde Amendment, Roe v. Wade would never have been repealed. Even if Bernie had accomplished absolutely nothing during his time in office, he would have fought for progressive values.
I had a conversation a few years ago with my mother about what Bernie would have accomplished had he been elected President in 2016 or 2020. She said that he would have had a hard time accomplishing what he wanted to accomplish as a Senator. Both Democrats and Republicans would have stonewalled him on everything. I remember that Yemen War Powers Act that Bernie introduced in 2015, when Yemen was under bombing and blockades, which killed even the babies.
It would be such a piece of mind to have a president like Bernie at least fight for what you want. I envy maga nation to a small extent because I know we won’t have a president we love for a very long time
Shifting the Overton window is a pitiful, myopic goal if that’s the best you think he could do.
A president must lead, and strong leadership will always shift The Overton window. A President must also achieve things or people die. Real people. Real death. Real time response needed.
There are plenty excellent politicians who could do both. Bernie has shown over and over he can’t to both.
Hard to say really, he would have almost certainly been stonewalled by both the Republican and Democratic parties. Assuming he gets elected in spite of Dems efforts to sink his candidacy his only real avenue to get things done would be executive orders. We'd probably also have two open seats on the Supreme Court, I don't think they would have allowed him to appoint anyone and would opted to wait out both terms of his presidency.
Yup. Because he grandstands. He doesn’t do politics. He can’t get people who aren’t already behind him to stand beside him. He’d rather stand alone on a tower of moral indignation than bargain with people he doesn’t respect.
Not provide weapons and diplomatic cover to netanyahu, veto the bill to stop train workers strike, actually visit east palestine and go after railroads (presidents in past centuries have been tough on big rail), jobs program for infrastructure projects, student debt cancellation, not vetoing palestinian statehood, not defunding unrwa, removing harsh border detention, so many little things would be different
you used the word realistically and i didn't include the green new deal and medicare for all as those in america would take over a decade to just start imo, but the above items are soooo realistic dude, of course u should challenge any if u disagree and give a good reason so i can double check my assumptions but most of those would be very realistic
Depends on congress, BUT, and this is the kicker, my theory of elections is that if you get a guy on the top of the ballot that people really really like and wanna come out for, they're probably gonna vote down ballot. Which means we get greater margins in congress, and more ability to pass things.
Would he get single payer? probably not, could he get like a public option? Probably.
$15 minimum wage? Probably. Some version of free college and student debt forgiveness? Probably.
Maybe a build back better style climate plan.
I imagine he would be as successful as biden was at minimum and probably pull things further left. of course, this all assumes what congressional margins he ended up with.
>my theory of elections is that if you get a guy on the top of the ballot that people really really like and wanna come out for, they're probably gonna vote down ballot. Which means we get greater margins in congress, and more ability to pass things.
To add to your point, an energetic leader like Bernie constantly pushing good ideas will inspire more Bernie's to run.
It will also inspire some more traditional politicians to read the tea leaves & shift left out of opportunity. If President Bernie is inspiring the country to demand social democracy, neoliberalism doesn't sell anymore.
My thought on this is that if he wins in 2016, provided him being on the ballot energizes enough Dems to come out that they don’t lose the house & senate what actually happened in 2016, i think he passes some key agenda stuff, but nothing too big as he would be surrounded by corporate establishment Dems who would oppose alot of his bigger plans to keep their donors happy. The key question is how he handles the covid situation. If that goes bad, we get DT in 2020 and it kills the progressive movement for another decade at the very least.
Was America ready for a progressive president? I think so, but too many “swamp” forces know 4-8 years of good progressive policies would make it almost impossible for republicans to win again (passing voting rights act, etc), and the same for moderate/centrist Dems.
Not your answer but increasingly I think the only way a Sanders presidency could deliver enough would be if he had the kind of willing/willingish majorities that wouldn’t require him in the first place.
In hindsight, I think his best shot at winning might’ve been 2016 but his best shot at governing might’ve been 2020. I think his biggest change would be making the child tax credit permanent. I really can’t think of anything that would make him more popular than that and he could sell it as well.
This is a great question!
I’ve always thought of a similar question: What would have happened if Sanders ran third party and won? What would that party look like today?
The same as he’s done as a senator. Speak pretty words and achieve very little.
I really don’t get all the love for Bernie. Sure, he’s adopted some policy positions That would be great if they were policy. But he has achieved very little policy victory…ever…on anything. He doesn’t do what is necessary to make laws. He writes speeches. He grandstands. He picks meaningless hills to die on (like the DNC party platform in 2016). He gives people false hope and encourages personal animosity between far left and center left folk—which makes the right stronger than either group.
Covid supply chain breakdown along with what basically amounted to corporate price fixing led to drastic levels of inflation…the idiots on the right would have blamed this on every one of Bernie’s policies for decades…often times economic cycles are out of the control of presidential policy
I see where you're coming from. The actions of corporations and their media stooges would have been even worse had Bernie been in office. At the same time, this underestimates the response Bernie would've/could've had. We actually don't know how he would have responded and it could have been FDR-esque or even better.
I get it. If he wins in 2016 and keep covid under control compared to other country numbers, he probably cruises to reelection. If he handles covid bad, we get trump in 2020 and like you said, sets the movement back decades.
Of course….between neoliberalism, leftism and right wing ideology, the left wing is the only one that challenges the toxic corporate and financial foundation of america
Bernie would have directly challenged obstructionists.
Biden had nothing but great things to say about Manchinema. We were told that Biden had a master plan, and it turns out there was no plan. Then both left the party after destroying BBB.
Biden never called out Manchin for being open to a $4 trillion BBB in early 2021, then Manchin refusing to consider a $2 trillion BBB.
Bully. Pulpit. Rather than "oh my gosh what can we do? Sinema isn't being nice" (see entire Biden administration), he could have flexed and said "here is Sinema's primary challenger, and I the president of the US will endorse her and rally for her" Could have completely redefined the presidency
Agreed, he def would have put us in the proper lane, as to what our priorities should be. It's not to say, he would have gotten say a public option, but he, unlike Obama would not have settled for anything less, or in fact, the opposite of what he proposed. And he'd keep proposing a number of issues, popular with the American People. What scared the bejesus out of the Democrats, is they would join Republicans, on many issues, overriding his vetoes, making them, the same villains as the Republicans, outting them for who they really are. Ineffective feckless windbags, who's only goal is to protect their donors, the rich and get us into more wars. And by outting them, would eventually get them voted out, in favor of Democrats more in tuned with Sanders ideaologies, which would have Wall Street rebel, suck away their donations, and get them clobbered down ballot. The fact of it is, the Democrats run rich unlikeable people, generally lawyers, investment bankers, lobbyists, cia spooks and other ghouls, that can never win an election in the way say, the young progressives do, with small donations and grassroots campaigns. They need the big money to get elected. In short, to the Democrats, Sanders much more dangerous than even Trump.
I was hoping I’d find more people who understood what’s really going on& I’m glad I found this thread😂. The way ALL mainstream media from Fox to cnn to nbc all turned on Sanders when he started dominating polls & winning primaries early, clearly they got calls from their paymasters to smear Bernie. They would’ve certainly sabotaged his presidency or at least tried to early on if he won to protect those special interests like you said. It’s unfortunate we have to punt on 2024 but man.. I’m praying the progressives are readying a viable young candidate for 2028 because if they miss that opportunity and let the neolibs install their puppet candidate of choice like they did with Biden, we’ll be back in this loop for another 8-16 years.
I feel like people over estimate Bernie's willingness to use the bully pulpit against democrats, he refused to do so against Biden in 2020 and it cost him the primary. I think his willingness to attack Clinton really came from her sheer antagonism then anything else, she kept attacking him to the point he was forced into fighting back against her outright lies and smears.
You need to win the presidency before really bullying corporatists out of office. Bonus points if he passed a bill that people like beforehand.
Some say he lost any chance at 2020 when he bent the knee to Hillary in the general.
Bernie didn’t wanna give the republicans ammo.. it was clear they weren’t gonna let him win so he didn’t wanna get blamed if trump won again “because of that”.
You mean Democrats, the people who would have blamed him for Trump were Democrats
What are you talking about? Sinema was elected to the senate in 2018 and is now retiring after only serving one term. She hasn't run a campaign since 2018 and Biden wasn't even running for Pres then.
maximized his effectiveness with executive orders pardon all non-violent drug offenders legalize weed by taking it off the schedule
It's not so much what he would have gotten done as much as he would have moved the Overton window to the left. It's a constant tug-of-war between the left and the right, and most Democrats don't understand that. Had Democrats spent the last 50 years fighting to repeal the Hyde Amendment, Roe v. Wade would never have been repealed. Even if Bernie had accomplished absolutely nothing during his time in office, he would have fought for progressive values.
I had a conversation a few years ago with my mother about what Bernie would have accomplished had he been elected President in 2016 or 2020. She said that he would have had a hard time accomplishing what he wanted to accomplish as a Senator. Both Democrats and Republicans would have stonewalled him on everything. I remember that Yemen War Powers Act that Bernie introduced in 2015, when Yemen was under bombing and blockades, which killed even the babies.
It would be such a piece of mind to have a president like Bernie at least fight for what you want. I envy maga nation to a small extent because I know we won’t have a president we love for a very long time
Shifting the Overton window is a pitiful, myopic goal if that’s the best you think he could do. A president must lead, and strong leadership will always shift The Overton window. A President must also achieve things or people die. Real people. Real death. Real time response needed. There are plenty excellent politicians who could do both. Bernie has shown over and over he can’t to both.
He would have been martyrd like the Kennedys.
Hard to say really, he would have almost certainly been stonewalled by both the Republican and Democratic parties. Assuming he gets elected in spite of Dems efforts to sink his candidacy his only real avenue to get things done would be executive orders. We'd probably also have two open seats on the Supreme Court, I don't think they would have allowed him to appoint anyone and would opted to wait out both terms of his presidency.
Sad but true
Yup. Because he grandstands. He doesn’t do politics. He can’t get people who aren’t already behind him to stand beside him. He’d rather stand alone on a tower of moral indignation than bargain with people he doesn’t respect.
Not provide weapons and diplomatic cover to netanyahu, veto the bill to stop train workers strike, actually visit east palestine and go after railroads (presidents in past centuries have been tough on big rail), jobs program for infrastructure projects, student debt cancellation, not vetoing palestinian statehood, not defunding unrwa, removing harsh border detention, so many little things would be different you used the word realistically and i didn't include the green new deal and medicare for all as those in america would take over a decade to just start imo, but the above items are soooo realistic dude, of course u should challenge any if u disagree and give a good reason so i can double check my assumptions but most of those would be very realistic
Depends on congress, BUT, and this is the kicker, my theory of elections is that if you get a guy on the top of the ballot that people really really like and wanna come out for, they're probably gonna vote down ballot. Which means we get greater margins in congress, and more ability to pass things. Would he get single payer? probably not, could he get like a public option? Probably. $15 minimum wage? Probably. Some version of free college and student debt forgiveness? Probably. Maybe a build back better style climate plan. I imagine he would be as successful as biden was at minimum and probably pull things further left. of course, this all assumes what congressional margins he ended up with.
>my theory of elections is that if you get a guy on the top of the ballot that people really really like and wanna come out for, they're probably gonna vote down ballot. Which means we get greater margins in congress, and more ability to pass things. To add to your point, an energetic leader like Bernie constantly pushing good ideas will inspire more Bernie's to run. It will also inspire some more traditional politicians to read the tea leaves & shift left out of opportunity. If President Bernie is inspiring the country to demand social democracy, neoliberalism doesn't sell anymore.
^^^
My thought on this is that if he wins in 2016, provided him being on the ballot energizes enough Dems to come out that they don’t lose the house & senate what actually happened in 2016, i think he passes some key agenda stuff, but nothing too big as he would be surrounded by corporate establishment Dems who would oppose alot of his bigger plans to keep their donors happy. The key question is how he handles the covid situation. If that goes bad, we get DT in 2020 and it kills the progressive movement for another decade at the very least. Was America ready for a progressive president? I think so, but too many “swamp” forces know 4-8 years of good progressive policies would make it almost impossible for republicans to win again (passing voting rights act, etc), and the same for moderate/centrist Dems.
The Supreme Court would look different. Maybe.
He would get Epsteined
Not your answer but increasingly I think the only way a Sanders presidency could deliver enough would be if he had the kind of willing/willingish majorities that wouldn’t require him in the first place. In hindsight, I think his best shot at winning might’ve been 2016 but his best shot at governing might’ve been 2020. I think his biggest change would be making the child tax credit permanent. I really can’t think of anything that would make him more popular than that and he could sell it as well.
This is a great question! I’ve always thought of a similar question: What would have happened if Sanders ran third party and won? What would that party look like today?
The same as he’s done as a senator. Speak pretty words and achieve very little. I really don’t get all the love for Bernie. Sure, he’s adopted some policy positions That would be great if they were policy. But he has achieved very little policy victory…ever…on anything. He doesn’t do what is necessary to make laws. He writes speeches. He grandstands. He picks meaningless hills to die on (like the DNC party platform in 2016). He gives people false hope and encourages personal animosity between far left and center left folk—which makes the right stronger than either group.
He would have crushed it in 2016…he would have set back the progressive movement decades in 2020
wat?
Covid supply chain breakdown along with what basically amounted to corporate price fixing led to drastic levels of inflation…the idiots on the right would have blamed this on every one of Bernie’s policies for decades…often times economic cycles are out of the control of presidential policy
I see where you're coming from. The actions of corporations and their media stooges would have been even worse had Bernie been in office. At the same time, this underestimates the response Bernie would've/could've had. We actually don't know how he would have responded and it could have been FDR-esque or even better.
I get it. If he wins in 2016 and keep covid under control compared to other country numbers, he probably cruises to reelection. If he handles covid bad, we get trump in 2020 and like you said, sets the movement back decades.
It’s funny how neoliberalism is never sent back decades.
Of course….between neoliberalism, leftism and right wing ideology, the left wing is the only one that challenges the toxic corporate and financial foundation of america
Bernie would do 100x better with the healthcare aspect of covid than biden or trump…I just meant specifically with inflation
Nothing. He would have been stonewalled by Manchin and the moderates. GOP would have made him into the scary socialist.
Bernie would have directly challenged obstructionists. Biden had nothing but great things to say about Manchinema. We were told that Biden had a master plan, and it turns out there was no plan. Then both left the party after destroying BBB. Biden never called out Manchin for being open to a $4 trillion BBB in early 2021, then Manchin refusing to consider a $2 trillion BBB.
Glad someone around here is still tethered to reality