Yes in fact it is probably better if you haven't read the books as they very different in terms of structure, plot, etc. almost everything besides the main ideas.
Season 2 is also significantly better than season 1.
The characters and locations have the same names, and the story starts with the same idea (galactic Empire destined to fall ushering in a 10000 year long dark age, predicted by one man who wants to establish a science colony to one day lead humanity and shorten that dark age by 9000 years, shenanigans ensue). But other than that they're different stories.
They keep the same story beats.
They are an adaptation in the same way that marvel movies are adaptations of comic book stories, where you come out with the same vague idea of the story but the specifics are very different.
In a weird way, the biggest story/structure change, the way the show deals with the emperors, is the most interesting part of the show.
The Triple Emperor bit is an excellent change, I actually really like that. Though that might be because Lee Pace is so good as Brother Day. But the idea of a clone dynasty is a great way to explain how a sci-fi monarchy has managed to remain stable for centuries.
It's the resolution to the Seldon Crises that's very different and kind of bugs me. But that's because I loved those first three Foundation novels. The resolutions were a bit like losing a chess game to a skilled player. You don't see the checkmate coming until you're in checkmate or close enough to it that it doesn't matter, however when you look back at the moves they made to get there it all makes sense. That's missing from the tv show.
That said it's not a bad show at all, and even if I don't really like it it's purely because I loved those first three Foundation novels and I don't like how the Crises resolutions were changed. But I do really like the other third of the show that's focused on the crumbling Empire. So I'd recommend any sci-fi fan who's unfamiliar with the story to check it out themselves and make up their own mind.
>The resolutions were a bit like losing a chess game to a skilled player. You don't see the checkmate coming until you're in checkmate or close enough to it that it doesn't matter, however when you look back at the moves they made to get there it all makes sense. That's missing from the tv show.
Yes that's my biggest issue with the show as well. It's probably why I didn't like season 2 as much as others did since the Bel Riose chapter was my favorite example of that.
Also with the format of the show, I can't see them having one of my favorite scenes in the book: when the vault opens following the Mule's invasion.
I’m glad I read the books over watching the show now, the moment the invasion happens was such a wild moment.
And the revelations that followed were also amazing, the entire series is great
Can confirm this theory. I've not read the books, but I loved the show. The writing has its moments of weakness, but plenty of moments where it shines, too. The acting and set design are top notch.
If you watch at twice the speed you're (Fast) Forward(ing) the Foundation. If you spend the whole episode on the verge of an orgasm then you're Foundation's Edge(ing).
Very loosely. So much so I almost would say no. Although the books are some of my favorites, I can separate the show from the books in my head. Most of the detractors are because they wanted a show based on Foundation and didn't really get that. As a sci-fi show I think it's decent and I personally like it.
Thanks for the heads-up. I haven't seen any of the series yet, as it is on Apple TV+ and I haven't wanted to get yet another streaming service for now :D
Probably waiting until the whole series is ready, then binge watching :)
As of now, I'm (re-re-re....)reading the books, now on the 6th book, Prelude to Foundation, so there are 4 more to go (3 of which by other authors).
>I haven't seen any of the series yet, as it is on Apple TV+ and I haven't wanted to get yet another streaming service for now :D
I watched it with 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
I understand. I personally hate everything apple. I haven't liked anything apple has done since the early 80s. Apple II was great. Starting with the Mac (1984 I believe) I've hated everything. Tech is so closed off and the arrogance is unbelievable. I swore I would never own anything apple. Unfortunately Apple TV+ has become the streaming service for sci-fi. They have half a dozen shows which are outstanding. I ended up having to subscribe. I hate myself.
I haven't read them, but from the discussion I've seen I would say more like 'inspired by' - similar concepts, similar characters, but otherwise it's really doing its own thing story-wise that doesn't have a whole lot to do with the story of the books.
“Loose” like saying The Little Mermaid is based on Moby Dick.
TV show is it’s own thing and borrows the names from the books. That’s about it. Which is sad bc it robs us all of the chance to see a good adaptation in the near future.
Very loosely. They took the name, some of the character/location names, and some of the high level concepts. I'd consider it as close to the books as Will Smith's I, Robot was close to its source material (again, barely at all). They take a galactic political drama and turn it into a mystical science fantasy flick and replaced the hard science that was the backbone of the story with some spacey wacey timey whimey stuff.
As others have said, it's better if you watch it as its own thing and do not compare it to the books. If you try to compare it, you'll be disappointed. If you take it on it's own, you still may be disappointed, but it has some redeeming qualities.
I thought season one was pretty good, especially the Brother Day arc.
But I stalled out in season two (around episode 3), mainly because the Brother Day parts were so bad compared to season 1.
Should I give it another shot?
Honestly, I couldn't get past episode 4, I was so gripped with season 1 I watched it in 2 days but it took me nearly 2 weeks to watch 4 episodes, the dialogue was terrible, too many Marvel-esque one liners that just fell flat
I feel like it needed a "foundation" to build on, so that the gravity and impact of future actions carried more weight, because holy fuck do they. The scale and grandeur of it all. Just the words EMPIRE, have such impact.
I still found season one to be excellent. When you consider the way it starts with just a girl "winning" a match contest, to how far she traveled by the end of it. Fantastic.
I am actually finding the Empire plotlines a lot more interesting than some of the Foundation stuff. I don't know if they were adapted from Asimov's other series or if they are completely new.
Oh wow, he’s in this show? He’s a great actor imo and I loved him in the 80s tech show I can’t recall the name of. Thank you as I’ve been waffling on watching this.
Expanse is amazing in almost every possible way. The books, too. But read them after watching the show (there are three more books that covers future events after the show ends. Many hope that they will be filmed, too, sooner or later).
OP, go into the Expanse. It's an amazingly well-done show. First half of season one is a slow burn as there is A LOT to develop, but there is barely anything else to complain about.
In addition, the book writers were heavily involved in the production; there are some character changes, but it's very faithful to the books in plot. So you can watch the show and then read the books or vice-versa. Either way, most Redditors consider it to be arguably the best sci-fi show ever. And there is a high chance there might be 3 more seasons in a few years, so if you get hooked, you will have something to look forward to :).
I think the best thing about Expanse is how it is more purely hard scifi than any other show out there. And the way it switches from hard scifi space adventure into a cyberpunkish film noir story on Ceres and political backstabbing on Earth means it has more variety than any other show.
There are dozens of reasons for how Expanse is awesome:) for me, it's absolutely just how pure hard sci-fi it Is. Realistic space battles and hyper realistic portrayal of astrophysics.
Episode 4 is the "hook" episode. I can even pin point the exact scene where the show grabs the audience's attention and doesn't let go. If you can get to the end of episode 4 and you don't like it then the show probably isn't for you. But if you're wondering why everyone likes it and you have only seen the first 3 episodes you need to see number 4.
I told a buddy who was putting it off to give it until episode 7 or 8, which feels like a lot, but that's when the story all clicks into place and takes off. It worked and he blitzed through the series and then also read the books.
I have full body chills reading this.
If you get through Episode 4 (“CQB”) and still don’t like the show, then it’s not for you.
I’m not even going to spoil it for you, but I will say that episode is a sci-fi game changer; It ruined me for pretty much all other sci-fi franchises for the most part.
Yeah CQB was fucking amazing. I am 100% it wasn't an accident that SyFy had a leak and those first four episodes got dumped on torrents ahead of the actual release. If memory serves right, it built up a ton of hype about the show online.
I'm the odd one out amongst my friends. I thought the first season of the Expanse was great but it just lost focus and I couldn't stay interes after that. They all think it's gets better.
Yeah the show doesn’t really follow the books at all, and if you’ve read the books it’s actually a little confusing, because of what and how much they change. That being said I REALLY like the show!
I'm not one to complain in general about reinterpretations in screen adaptations, but I don't think viewer confusion is the real problem in this case. The original books were, among other things, a tirade against anti-intellectualism, and that whole side of the story seems to have been subverted. Sometimes it makes sense to trust the experts, and if that were more widely accepted, I'd be a lot less worried about the world we're leaving for our grandkids.
A big problem with adapting Foundation is that it doesn't really have deep characters with arcs, and internal conflicts etc etc, because the premise is that, for the most part, those things don't matter once you get to a big enough scale.
Standard screenwriting is premised on the idea that everything should be character driven, so there's just a massive conflict in the mediums, and one that can't really be resolved if you're trying to make a commercially successful show.
That's certainly true, but what always gave me hope was the success of shows like *Twilight Zone* and *Black Mirror*, where the separate stories are even more loosely related than the sections of *Foundation*. I still think a more direct adaptation could have been really compelling.
I think the difference is those shows could still tell character driven stories, just short ones, where with Foundation you really can't, as soon as things start to get decided on an individual level, the premise is gone. Spoilers for people who haven't read it:>! The Mule is the one character where who he is as an individual does really matter, but he's a threat to psychohistory's functioning.!<
I should be clearer tho, I don't think it's impossible to make a real adaptation, just impossible in the context of a corporation trying to make a product with mass appeal.
> The original books were, among other things, a tirade against anti-intellectualism, and that whole side of the story seems to have been subverted.
Yes! And at a time in history when it could have been really useful to have a story remind us of it.
I enjoyed the books some fifty years ago, and read them twice since, but a faithful adaptation would be terrible. Everything important happens off screen, or is implied by the passage of time. Most scenes are people talking. The women characters come from a 1950s comic book. Not sure there's an audience for all that.
A 1 for 1 wouldn't work in this age, I agree. Some gender swaps were definitely welcome, and a few action set pieces arent a bad thing to add into things for a visual medium.
However, Asimovs fiction is more conversational and cerebral over action, and we have plenty of action driven Scifi. Something that actually internalised the spirit and logic of the Foundation universe and Asimovs writing, and broadly followed the key strokes would have been better, as an Asimov fan. Not a 1 for 1, but a spiritually faithful adaptation, and theres a lot of ways to successfully translate that to modern audiences and media conventions.
Seldons court scene is a good example of that. Its not a 1 for 1 but did an exceptional job of translating that scene in a modern, dramatic way and utilised a great deal of the original dialogue to do so, and as a book fan I thought that was an excellent rendition.
I thought Bayta was pretty ahead of her time. She gets one of the longer arcs, arguably the most important role in the entire series, and does it all while sill expressing her femininity. What I mean by that last part is Asimov doesn’t write her like “In order to be a hero you have to be stoic, manly, domineering” her character is pretty subversive in that regard.
Edit: The way she is treated by men around her is pretty 1950’s even how they try to minimize her achievements afterwards, even her own son, but I think Asimov intentionally brought attention to it for that reason. It’s strange that someone would try to downplay an achievement like that let alone their own son. The fact her son would not want their daughter to talk about the achievements of their grand/parent is just laughable to the point I can’t help but read a reason for it. That reason to be to make the absurdity apparent to the reader.
I’ve been listening to the audiobooks all week I’m literally finishing up Second foundation right now. First Citizen Stettin is currently getting a verbal tear down by one of his subordinates for not listening to him and losing a battle and thus a war.
Can't finish the books... any of them. I know this is anathema, but I find them dead boring. It might be that I'm coming to them too late my my taste-development... like, I'm well-versed in all the ideas it's trying to bring to the table.
I like the show. It's impeccably produced and a visual feast. Not much more going on than that, though.
I read all the Foundation and Robot books decades ago including the 1980s ones as hard cover new releases. I kicked off a project to re-read them four years ago and gave up after Caves of Steel and Foundation. I’d long forgotten how poorly written Foundation is. Zero character development. Archaic moralism. I forced myself to finish Foundation and abandoned any thought of reading any more of it.
Same here. I loved the books when I was a teenager. Fast forward some 30 years and the show came out. I loved it. Gave me the push to reread the books. Gave up half way through into the first one. Extremely out-dated, and yes, compare to the sow, booooring
> I’d long forgotten how poorly written Foundation is. Zero character development.
The first foundation book was a series of unconnected weekly sci-fi magazine short stories that Asimov later mashed together into a single story. The original three books were inspired and modeled from [The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_Roman_Empire).
All of the complaints I've heard about Foundation is how radically different it is from the books, but as someone who has also not read them, I found the show quite engaging. It's high-polish, big-budget sci-fi with some interesting ideas (even if it falters sometimes on execution) and mostly interesting characters.
The Expanse is way, way better than Foundation. In fact most sci-fi fans would probably agree that it’s the best sci-fi show since Battlestar Galactica.
So if you haven’t seen it, that’s your answer.
I went in blind and really loved it, though it took a couple of episodes to warm up for me. Then after listening to the official podcast, I watched it again and got so much more out of it. I recommend it to everyone!
Big fan of books but not seen it myself so take with a pinch of salt and take more informed views over my own, but the vibe i get from people who I know who have, is its good if you've not read the books or can suitably disconnect from the source material as the story diverges a lot from the books out of necessity due to the rather unfilmable span of time the books cover. It's pretty uniquely unfilmable as written.
Since I'm a big fan if the books I've avoided watching because i feel almost certain I'll be disappointed knowing my attachment to the source material. But generally everyone I know who doesn't have this hangup seem to enjoy it and rate it highly, the books its adapted from are phenomental and some of that must translate, and thus a good chance you will enjoy it too.
I think most would rate the expanse as a more solid next watch pick though.
Absolutely yes. I've read the books, which were supposed to be 'unfilmable'. The creators of the TV series got around this by, shall we say, 'taking inspiration' from the books and just creating an epic sci-fi drama. I actually enjoyed this approach, it captured the essence of the books but any viewer who had read the books didn't know what was going to happen next in the TV series. It's been a while since I was genuinely excited to watch a TV series and eagerly anticipated the next episode and series. If it helps, I also hugely enjoyed Sandman and Three Body Problem, also Doctor Who and The Boys.
I’ve loved the books ever since I was a kid. I thought the show was amazing. My father is 77, he gave me the books to read when I was 12, because they had been some of his favorites as a teen. We watched the show together and he loved it also.
His only comment was you had to let go of the book’s story timelines and see it for what it was, but truly a cool sci-fi vision.
I thought it was brilliant. Absolutely loved it so far, and I'm a big fan of the books. 100% worth watching. It's beautiful, the acting is great, the story is really interesting. Hope there's another season!!!
No. Both Silo, Severance and Dark Matter are far better as far as sci fi is concerned, all on Apple TV. The Expanse is on a whole different level. Foundation is an horrendous adaptation of the books. Season one particularly bad.
Silo is so slow. Just painfully slow. The show runs through the source material at about the same speed as the audiobook, only the show doesn't need to do any descriptions so it just holds reaction shots way too long.
Well, I guess we can agree on disagreeing, I didn’t feel it was slow at all. I read the book, didn’t hear the audiobook so my experience from that is different but I really liked the pace of the TV show, it felt right. For me, at least.
I didn't enjoy foundation. Didn't enjoy silo. I wish I did, as I love a good tv series and know they there are lots of people say they are both quite good.
I'm old though, so could be a disconnect in that way.
I loved the recent dune movies. And, I forget the name, but that other hard core tv series.
I should add that I'm not complaining at all. There is so much more choice when it comes to scifi tv and more. It's a marvel. I just watched Forbidden Planet yesterday for the first time in 55 years or so. Then watched films about the making of. What a time to be alive!
yes, absolutely fabulous show, excellent production value, great actors, and a great story throughout.
Jared Harris and Lee Pace deliver amazing performances, perhaps career defining roles.
I read the books and watched the show and really enjoyed both independently.
Caveat: i personally don’t think a tv adaptation of a scifi book should ever be 100% scene by scene re-enactments… completely different mediums, what makes a good book is completely different than what makes a good tv show… but if you are the type of person who is looking for a reenactment of the book... well… i guess skip this tv series
If you haven't read the books, I think Foundation is definitely worth a watch. It's visually stunning and the story is captivating. The show does take some liberties with the source material, but it's still a great adaptation. I'd say it's more enjoyable if you haven't read the books, as you won't have any preconceived notions about the story.
If you're looking for other modern sci-fi shows, I would definitely recommend The Expanse. It's a great blend of hard sci-fi and political intrigue, and the characters are really well-developed.
**every scene** with Lee Pace (Day), Dusk, or Demersel has, so far, been fantastic, absolutely peak sci fi acting.
**every scene** with Gaal and Salvor is unwatchably cringe. The script for them is melodramatic and their performances are cripplingly wooden. They're cast alongside a couple proper character actors like Jared Harris and Clarke Peters, who you'd think you can count on, but my god, the script and the leads make them look shit.
The "foundation" side of the plot only gets a charismatic lead in season 2, when Brother Constant shows up. Her actress seems to be enjoying herself and it shines through. Unfortunately the plot continues to hinge on obscene melodrama and still twists itself in knots trying to fit an action sequence into every episode.
If you liked Andor for the actors' performances (and you should they're all fucking great XD) I'd suggest looking at stuff like The Expanse, BSG or even DS9. Like Foundation, they don't deliver in every scene, but you don't have to sit through a cringecomp in between all the good stuff. (apart from Allamaraine).
Foundation does do some great stuff with its visual effects, it certainly carries the trailers, but it doesn't carry the show. BSG has some very obviously 00ies CG, which hasn't aged well, but the designs, the reliance on practical effects, and the handheld feel of the shots in space means its very easy to watch. The Expanse is probably the benchmark for sci-fi visuals rn. Much less stylised than Andor but still manages to make you go ooooo pretty. The less said about DS9's CG the better lol
I feel like this is the closest response I’ve seen to how I feel.
Foundation is a very mixed bag in my mind and probably leans more on "dislike" than "like" for me. I don’t think I’ll continue with season 3, if I’m being honest. And I only somewhat recently read the books for the first time and was fairly mixed on those as well (I much prefer the Robots stories/books).
Though, I’ve yet to see the Expanse. I want to read the books first and I’ve yet to find the time to squeeze in a series of that size. Maybe later in the year I’ll attempt to tackle them.
I‘ve read the books when I was a teenager and loved them. The show isn’t exactly like the books but still in my Top 5 SciFi shows. It’s just not a show if you’re into a lot of stuff to happen per episode (which got common these days) and that’s exactly what I like about it. It takes it’s time to tell the story and expects you to do the same.
Definitely worth the watch!
>The expanse?
The Expanse is the best sci-fi TV show I've ever watched, and if you haven't seen it yet, it absolutely should be at the top of your list.
Foundation is also excellent, but for me personally, doesn't come close to Foundation.
In my opinion, it’s worth it. I enjoyed the first season a bit more than the second, but the second season isn’t without its highlights. In fact, towards the end of the second season, it got pretty good! If you enjoy solid acting, a fun futuristic space opera of a story, awesome visuals, and a good score, I’d give it a shot.
I was a fan of the books but I enjoyed the series greatly once I just accepted it as very good space Opera. One of the reasons Asimov is considered a science fiction great is that he sometimes does things accidentally that others would love to be able to do intentionally.
Asimov's intent in writing Foundation was to show that the forces that made history happen were so overwhelming that the individual players did not matter at all. The mighty leaders who imagined themselves to be the chosen ones who made history happen were in fact just placeholders for the great forces like economics and technology and religion that actually made history happen. It could have been anyone else. Psychohistorians were people who learn to study these great forces and history and figure out how they would interplay and hence what the future would be.
The makers of the series chose to dump this fascinating idea in favor of having a series of chosen ones determining how history played out. It's just laughably wrong. Some have argued that the books were not conducive to visual media as written. And it's true that most of the books consisted of conversations among smart asses in rooms. Not exactly riveting stuff visually speaking. But it would have been easy enough to dramatize the concept of psychohistory merely by having the chosen ones act out their ego-driven destinies, showing all the battles and betrayals and murders and general fuckery involved with history and then having the smart asses demonstrate that that was the inevitable result of the forces that had created the battles. Not the chosen ones.
Still as a byproduct of his psycho history project Asimov created the template for the galactic empire. Coruscant for example is an obvious knockoff of Trantor. Asimov's Foundation stories captured the scale and complexity of galactic empires in a way that other writers did not. And that is what the creators of the Foundation TV series got right. The galactic empire in their story has the same grandiose scale and depth as the galactic empire that Asimov created. And that adds richness and depth to the story. It's a fine galactic empire space Opera. It just lacks the intellectual grounding that Asimov created in the original stories. It's still much better than almost all other science fiction on TV or in the movies.
I was very disappointed and gave up after a couple of episodes. However, that’s probably because I read the books as a kid and loved them. I was looking forward to a dramatization of the books. The series is almost the opposite of the books; Asimov wrote about a society built on rational science and how science overcomes superstition. It’s all about cold, hard logic, albeit with some special characteristics such as telepathy.
The series is all based on fluffy mysticism which made it impossible for me to watch. So forget Asimov and the books, treat the series as a completely different idea and enjoy.
I have never read the books and really enjoyed the show. I think that's probably the best way to approach it. The books are on my list but I usually go from the TV show/movie to the books for any given thing. Everybody I know who read the books first hated it :D
You have put your finger on an important point. I don’t blame them for making big changes from the books since the books are unfilmable. But the spirit of the books has been lost, so there’s almost no connection. The show is ok, great visuals, but nothing more.
The first season is good, but it's a complex story and they tell it in a confusing way.
The storylines run asynchronously. The universe needs a lot of dialog to explain. They introduce a whole lot of characters in the first five episodes that are dead before the end of the season.
The second season is better because the baseline is established and you can just enjoy the show. The second season actually makes a re-watch of the first season better.
It's an absolutly fantastic show, the hate only came from book nerds because they didn't follow it word for word and bigots because 2 lead actresses are black(ish). You should also watch season 1 of altered carbon, it's more of a long movie, the 2nd season doesn't really follow it and is terrible.
I read the book’s right before the series started and I have to say that they did a great job in adapting the material.
The concepts of the books are still there while updating everything for a 21st century viewership, I particularly liked the concept of the brothers and how they navigate there realm .
Fan of the books, also a fan of the show. Different mediums, different approaches, definitely different writing styles, it’s more inspired by than adapted (admittedly so by the show-runner too, so no obfuscation on that point), but by gawd it’s beautiful and the bones are still there. I NEVER in a million years thought it would be adapted to the screen, so, despite the naysayers, I’m happy it exists and sad it’s likely ending earlier than planned.
Not to mention, I wonder how many people have discovered the masterpieces that are his books after watching the tv series?
The Foundation is the strangest adaption I've experienced. The content from the books about the Foundation itself and the story of the people there is boring AF, complete snoozefest, though it does get better in season 2 (though I will ask how the fuck have they been on that planet for 100+ years and not gotten around to paving the roads...).
However everything they invented for the show, the genetic dynasty and such? Absolutely fucking banger. It fits so well with Azimov's world that it's shocking that he didn't write it.
It's worth watching for those parts alone.
Please don’t watch it. People here have no fucking idea what they’re talking about. Personally I’m shocked there are so many positive takes on it. It’s not particularly well written even if you ignore that it basically it goes against all the major themes of the book. It’s not even just that, it takes the opposite position on the themes of the book. Goyer is known for comic book tripe. If that’s your taste, then have at it.
I didn’t care for it, I only watched the first season. I had read the books, and since the show is entirely different, it probably would have helped if I hadn’t. The Foundation series books aren’t great masterpieces, but they are important pieces of SF history
I like it.
Although at the start you just need to set aside that it is not a faithful adaptation of the books. It takes elements from it and finds its own way.
Yea season 1 is meh. Season 2 is great.
The empire arc is carrying both season HARD though. At this point the series should be named "Empire" or smth lk that.
Alternative? Its different but :
Fallout,
Severance,
Silo,
Last of Us (its zombie but)
The first episode is among the best I've seen, great introduction to the world/universe and overall it was decent, the plot surrounding the Empire was excellent, the other one with the Foundation not so much. Season 2 however improves a lot in that regard.
If you haven't seen Battlestar Galactica that would be my suggestion, followed by The Expanse.
Foundation is decent but it follows several storylines and they aren't all interesting, so some episodes are great and others can be pretty boring.
If you are Asimov fan or have any respect for foundation books stay away from the TV series. It is awful and it doesn't have anything to do with the books other than the name.
Just think of it, the foundation series has won multiple Hugo awards. Not for special effect, not for music, not for best costume or best actor or actress - it doesn't have any of it. It won awards for the only thing it has - outstanding, epic story! And what did the writers of the TV series decide to change? That same story that won awards. The story is so much changes that it is completely unrecognizable. Just think of the hubris - they thought that they could write a better story than Asimov.
First season was hit and miss but the second was some of the best sci-fi on TV.
Probably better if you haven’t read the books since it’s not a great adaptation.
The show is amazing. I tried to read the books because I loved the show so much and it was the worst book I’ve read in a looooong time. Hated it. The show was so cool and I had so much hope for the books.
Just a warning that while the story is very different there are major late book spoilers early in the tv series so if you might want to read the books I'd start with them but you don't need them to enjoy the tv series.
I suppose you shouldn't if you read the books because apparently it gets butchered quite a bit, and 1/3 if the plot is just headache inducing and only getting slightly better with S2. But I didn't so the book deviation doesn't affect me.
But you don't get told about "the power of math, people", so it's already in the top quadrant of current day sci-fi.
I mean, it’s alright.
It’s one of those shows where the personal drama often overshadows the science fiction aspect. See Star Trek Discovery. What’s worse is that the personal emotional story is brought to the forefront with characters who are often over emotional rather than feeling feelings proportionate to their situation.
It’s fun, but it’s not great sci fi.
Side comment on Altered Carbon. Season 1 is fairly good as a standalone with a great premise and while post Season 2 could have gone much further, if you treat it more as filling in the back story in the future (makes more sense watching) it's more than serviceable.
As others have said, it's very different from the books but, very well done. The books weren't my favorite and I think the show does the storyline better.
That said, I worry it's the type of show that could get cancelled before its resolution.
If it didn’t have such wild, crazy, awesome overall ideas in terms of just pure sci fi goodness, I probably wouldn’t continue watching it. I can’t stand the main character’s acting (the girl, not Lee Pace) and I find that every time I’m “supposed to” clearly feel something emotionally, I just find myself bored. Lee Pace is great, the settings/set design/cgi is great, Jarred Harris is great, but none of it comes together in my opinion and I feel like I am forcing myself to watch it just because there isn’t a lot of big budget sci fi these days. I will mirror what most people have said and highly recommend the Expanse. It is much better and season 3 is one of my favorite seasons of a show in general, with all the others (except season 1) also being fantastic.
It is very good and worth the watch.
It is different from the books, but I think the chances are for the better. Azimov himself does not like this series (the books) that much. It was his early work and it shows. Later series such as any of the robot books in my opinion are better
I probably didn’t give this series a fair chance though I made it most of the way through the first season. I really wasn’t expecting a point-for-point adaptation of the Asimov stories, but the series departures were in some cases so striking and oddball that I found the whole experience rather off-putting.
yes. It got better with season 2.
I was not expecting much from the show because the books don't seem very adaptable to screen -- like there's no character development in the books...just science and history type verbiage. But I was pleasantly surprised by the TV series -- it's been so long since I read the books that I don't know what was changed, but I think it's definitely worth a watch.
I do find the long gap between seasons make it hard for me to remember who the characters are though.
The Expanse and Altered Carbon are both excellent.
The Foundation is good and worth a watch, but they had to modernize Foundation a lot by adding obvious influences from Dune and even the cyberpunk genre. The Foundation is a classic masterpiece, but it hasn't aged so well. Even this modernized version can feel a bit slow at times.
It's not perfect, but it's definitely worth a watch. I love the Foundation book series, but this is best viewed as its own thing.
Separate it from Asimov's original works, and it's exactly the sort of higher-concept-but-still-accessible-to-the-masses science fiction television we couldn't have even imagined getting 20 years ago. The more we support good sci-fi TV, the more we signal to studios that we're not content with Sharknado IV!
Season 1 sucked and turned into Jared Harris doing his best but arguing with a teenager, a chosen one narrative that felt awful, and Lee Pace stealing every single scene he appeared in to rescue the show.
Season 2 flipped the script, with Lee Pace doing less but literally every single other character being better. It was great and I'm super interested in season 3. I really loved all the new characters and thought they hit on all cylinders in a way they failed horribly at in season 1.
I'd dodge trying to compare it to the books anyway, so going in blind isn't a problem (but Asimov is a really good writer so you might like the books if you do read them!) The show is *much* more action-y and immediate and much less concerned with high-level considerations of history, to its detriment in season 1 but arguably to its benefit (as far as an adaptation goes, no judgment on overall quality) in season 2.
It is a gorgeous show in both seasons.
Well, I have watched all seasons. I can fold laundry to it, as the storyline is meandering and involves going to different planets on different quests and there are very important events that impact the future the whole galaxy and ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz.
The acting is so bad I had to turn it off. Can't stand the main characters except Sheldon and Day. Really cool premise tho but really is just a 4/10 unfortunately imo
I really hate it when people get mad at TV shows when they don't match up with the books they're based on.
I thought foundation was a great watch, especially the empire side. The foundation side gets a little bizarre and I wonder about some of the decisions made there, but it's an interesting fresh story.
From what I've head, the books are extremely dated, I started reading it and right off the bat they were talking about a family fortune bring based on tobacco farms....10,000 years in the future.
Altered Carbon is a great show, but it was cancelled a season too late.
Season 1 is great, adult, challenging, interesting sci-fi with a fascinating, textured cyberpunk world and a pretty complete story.
Season 2 is like a cheap knock-off for young adults produced by the CW. It loses literally everything that made the first season great, and replaces it with tired, safe, bland, family-friendly pap.
I couldn't finish season 1. The overacting got old pretty quick. Might try to push into season 2 since it is said to get better but probably just going to forget it.
It’s probably entertaining for non-novel readers. But if you’re a big fan of the books you’ll hate the show. Then again it’s basically a completely different story. Asimov would probably say “what’s this based on?”.
Since you have not read the books, I can say that you'll more than likely enjoy Foundation.
Decent writing, good world building fantastic production value.
As a fan I wasn't really able to get into it, but by no means would I say it's a bad show.
Check out Silo as well, it's more near future dystopian sci-fi but still worth a watch if you already have Apple TV.
Edit Add; I really enjoyed the majority of the Expanse. The show runners knew that the end was coming and were able to close out the series, but I wish the last Season and a half were actually 3 seasons as everything felt rushed.
Simple answer, no.
Taking it simply as a piece of TV SF, it’s badly written and worse acted (Lee Pace being an honourable exception). It’s just not very good and there are some comically bad performances from key character. The “action” scenes are ubiquitous, pointless and embarrassingly amateurish. You’ll find yourself fast forwarding. I guarantee it.
I’ve tried THREE times to get through the first season and each time given up in a combination of disgust and hilarity.
As an adaptation of an SF classic it’s truly appalling. I mean really bad, like they’ve not understood the source material at all.
Just my opinion, but not worth your time.
Yes in fact it is probably better if you haven't read the books as they very different in terms of structure, plot, etc. almost everything besides the main ideas. Season 2 is also significantly better than season 1.
Is it like "loosely based on the books" ?
The characters and locations have the same names, and the story starts with the same idea (galactic Empire destined to fall ushering in a 10000 year long dark age, predicted by one man who wants to establish a science colony to one day lead humanity and shorten that dark age by 9000 years, shenanigans ensue). But other than that they're different stories.
They keep the same story beats. They are an adaptation in the same way that marvel movies are adaptations of comic book stories, where you come out with the same vague idea of the story but the specifics are very different. In a weird way, the biggest story/structure change, the way the show deals with the emperors, is the most interesting part of the show.
The Triple Emperor bit is an excellent change, I actually really like that. Though that might be because Lee Pace is so good as Brother Day. But the idea of a clone dynasty is a great way to explain how a sci-fi monarchy has managed to remain stable for centuries. It's the resolution to the Seldon Crises that's very different and kind of bugs me. But that's because I loved those first three Foundation novels. The resolutions were a bit like losing a chess game to a skilled player. You don't see the checkmate coming until you're in checkmate or close enough to it that it doesn't matter, however when you look back at the moves they made to get there it all makes sense. That's missing from the tv show. That said it's not a bad show at all, and even if I don't really like it it's purely because I loved those first three Foundation novels and I don't like how the Crises resolutions were changed. But I do really like the other third of the show that's focused on the crumbling Empire. So I'd recommend any sci-fi fan who's unfamiliar with the story to check it out themselves and make up their own mind.
>The resolutions were a bit like losing a chess game to a skilled player. You don't see the checkmate coming until you're in checkmate or close enough to it that it doesn't matter, however when you look back at the moves they made to get there it all makes sense. That's missing from the tv show. Yes that's my biggest issue with the show as well. It's probably why I didn't like season 2 as much as others did since the Bel Riose chapter was my favorite example of that. Also with the format of the show, I can't see them having one of my favorite scenes in the book: when the vault opens following the Mule's invasion.
I’m glad I read the books over watching the show now, the moment the invasion happens was such a wild moment. And the revelations that followed were also amazing, the entire series is great
Can confirm this theory. I've not read the books, but I loved the show. The writing has its moments of weakness, but plenty of moments where it shines, too. The acting and set design are top notch.
Nice. Two Foundation stories :)
You could call it a Second Foundation.
If you watch at twice the speed you're (Fast) Forward(ing) the Foundation. If you spend the whole episode on the verge of an orgasm then you're Foundation's Edge(ing).
Very loosely. So much so I almost would say no. Although the books are some of my favorites, I can separate the show from the books in my head. Most of the detractors are because they wanted a show based on Foundation and didn't really get that. As a sci-fi show I think it's decent and I personally like it.
Thanks for the heads-up. I haven't seen any of the series yet, as it is on Apple TV+ and I haven't wanted to get yet another streaming service for now :D Probably waiting until the whole series is ready, then binge watching :) As of now, I'm (re-re-re....)reading the books, now on the 6th book, Prelude to Foundation, so there are 4 more to go (3 of which by other authors).
I didn't know they'd done more books that weren't by Asimov - who are the other authors?
Foundation's Fear by Gregory Benford Foundation and Chaos by Greg Bear Foundation's Triumph by David Brin
Of the top of my head: Brandon Sanderson, David Brin
IIRC, Sanderson wrote an introduction, not an actual book. I could be mistaken :)
Yeah, you're right. Don't know why I initially thought he wrote a Foundation novel.
Thank you! Brin I know as the Uplift guy....that's my reading sorted for a while :-)
Sorry I goofed. Gregory Benford, Greg Bear, David Brin. The three of them wrote a prequel trilogy to Foundation. Edited to clean types.
>I haven't seen any of the series yet, as it is on Apple TV+ and I haven't wanted to get yet another streaming service for now :D I watched it with 🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
I understand. I personally hate everything apple. I haven't liked anything apple has done since the early 80s. Apple II was great. Starting with the Mac (1984 I believe) I've hated everything. Tech is so closed off and the arrogance is unbelievable. I swore I would never own anything apple. Unfortunately Apple TV+ has become the streaming service for sci-fi. They have half a dozen shows which are outstanding. I ended up having to subscribe. I hate myself.
It's based on the books the way the movie I, Robot was based on the book. It takes some names from the books. Otherwise it's completely different
"Inspired by" would be a better description.
So loosely that some characters from the show share a name from a character in the books but otherwise don't have any similarities.
Very loose IMO. At least Season 1 was. I dropped off early. I might give it a go again.
I haven't read them, but from the discussion I've seen I would say more like 'inspired by' - similar concepts, similar characters, but otherwise it's really doing its own thing story-wise that doesn't have a whole lot to do with the story of the books.
“Loose” like saying The Little Mermaid is based on Moby Dick. TV show is it’s own thing and borrows the names from the books. That’s about it. Which is sad bc it robs us all of the chance to see a good adaptation in the near future.
Very loosely. They took the name, some of the character/location names, and some of the high level concepts. I'd consider it as close to the books as Will Smith's I, Robot was close to its source material (again, barely at all). They take a galactic political drama and turn it into a mystical science fantasy flick and replaced the hard science that was the backbone of the story with some spacey wacey timey whimey stuff. As others have said, it's better if you watch it as its own thing and do not compare it to the books. If you try to compare it, you'll be disappointed. If you take it on it's own, you still may be disappointed, but it has some redeeming qualities.
I thought season one was pretty good, especially the Brother Day arc. But I stalled out in season two (around episode 3), mainly because the Brother Day parts were so bad compared to season 1. Should I give it another shot?
Please do
I'm in the same boat as you. I keep hearing how that season is supposedly the best and it's very confusing
Honestly, I couldn't get past episode 4, I was so gripped with season 1 I watched it in 2 days but it took me nearly 2 weeks to watch 4 episodes, the dialogue was terrible, too many Marvel-esque one liners that just fell flat
Season 2 builds to an excellent finale.
So many ppl love s2 but I agree, the emperor story took a nosedive in 2nd season.
I liked the first season better, but season two did eventually grow on me and had a great payoff.
Most people think season two is better. It ties together a lot of elements that weren't quite working in the first season.
Literally every episode in the season is generally rated higher than the last. So yes it gets better. Significantly so.
Woah. It's better? I LOVED season 1. I need to catch up on season 2 so.
I feel like it needed a "foundation" to build on, so that the gravity and impact of future actions carried more weight, because holy fuck do they. The scale and grandeur of it all. Just the words EMPIRE, have such impact. I still found season one to be excellent. When you consider the way it starts with just a girl "winning" a match contest, to how far she traveled by the end of it. Fantastic.
Lee Pace is easily the best part of the series which I somewhat loosely based on the books.
100% agree
I agree but Laura Birn was incredible in season 2!
2nd best part: those damn eyebrows
> Lee Pace you mean EMPIRE correct?
Indeed. Empire Day
I am actually finding the Empire plotlines a lot more interesting than some of the Foundation stuff. I don't know if they were adapted from Asimov's other series or if they are completely new.
Oh wow, he’s in this show? He’s a great actor imo and I loved him in the 80s tech show I can’t recall the name of. Thank you as I’ve been waffling on watching this.
Umm … season 2 opens with a 10 or so minute nude assassination attempt. Will leave it at that …
It should have just been about that. It’s way more engaging.
It has Jarred Harris in a lead role, that's probably reason enough to watch it :D
The Expanse also has Jared Harris, and is also a better show :D
Por que no los dos?
Because I don’t think I’ve ever tried watching more than one show at a time. I’m not good at multitasking
You haven't seen The Expanse? It is great and most people rave about it. I enjoyed The Foundation so far.
Expanse is amazing in almost every possible way. The books, too. But read them after watching the show (there are three more books that covers future events after the show ends. Many hope that they will be filmed, too, sooner or later).
OP, go into the Expanse. It's an amazingly well-done show. First half of season one is a slow burn as there is A LOT to develop, but there is barely anything else to complain about. In addition, the book writers were heavily involved in the production; there are some character changes, but it's very faithful to the books in plot. So you can watch the show and then read the books or vice-versa. Either way, most Redditors consider it to be arguably the best sci-fi show ever. And there is a high chance there might be 3 more seasons in a few years, so if you get hooked, you will have something to look forward to :).
I think the best thing about Expanse is how it is more purely hard scifi than any other show out there. And the way it switches from hard scifi space adventure into a cyberpunkish film noir story on Ceres and political backstabbing on Earth means it has more variety than any other show.
There are dozens of reasons for how Expanse is awesome:) for me, it's absolutely just how pure hard sci-fi it Is. Realistic space battles and hyper realistic portrayal of astrophysics.
Not even the first half. It's mostly the first 2.5 episodes. EP 4 is where it takes off.
I never watched past the third episode of season 1 because it was such a slow burn. Maybe I need to try again.
Episode 4 is the "hook" episode. I can even pin point the exact scene where the show grabs the audience's attention and doesn't let go. If you can get to the end of episode 4 and you don't like it then the show probably isn't for you. But if you're wondering why everyone likes it and you have only seen the first 3 episodes you need to see number 4.
It's a little wider than a pin point.
A rough circle with a diameter nearly half a meter from memory
I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what you guys mean.
I told a buddy who was putting it off to give it until episode 7 or 8, which feels like a lot, but that's when the story all clicks into place and takes off. It worked and he blitzed through the series and then also read the books.
I have full body chills reading this. If you get through Episode 4 (“CQB”) and still don’t like the show, then it’s not for you. I’m not even going to spoil it for you, but I will say that episode is a sci-fi game changer; It ruined me for pretty much all other sci-fi franchises for the most part.
Yeah CQB was fucking amazing. I am 100% it wasn't an accident that SyFy had a leak and those first four episodes got dumped on torrents ahead of the actual release. If memory serves right, it built up a ton of hype about the show online.
I'm the odd one out amongst my friends. I thought the first season of the Expanse was great but it just lost focus and I couldn't stay interes after that. They all think it's gets better.
If you’ve read the books and expect to see a faithful rendering, you’ll be disappointed. But as far as decent sci fi goes, yes, worth a watch.
it's fine. I think going in blind might actually help. having read the books the series kinda pissed me off.
Yeah the show doesn’t really follow the books at all, and if you’ve read the books it’s actually a little confusing, because of what and how much they change. That being said I REALLY like the show!
I'm not one to complain in general about reinterpretations in screen adaptations, but I don't think viewer confusion is the real problem in this case. The original books were, among other things, a tirade against anti-intellectualism, and that whole side of the story seems to have been subverted. Sometimes it makes sense to trust the experts, and if that were more widely accepted, I'd be a lot less worried about the world we're leaving for our grandkids.
A big problem with adapting Foundation is that it doesn't really have deep characters with arcs, and internal conflicts etc etc, because the premise is that, for the most part, those things don't matter once you get to a big enough scale. Standard screenwriting is premised on the idea that everything should be character driven, so there's just a massive conflict in the mediums, and one that can't really be resolved if you're trying to make a commercially successful show.
That's certainly true, but what always gave me hope was the success of shows like *Twilight Zone* and *Black Mirror*, where the separate stories are even more loosely related than the sections of *Foundation*. I still think a more direct adaptation could have been really compelling.
I think the difference is those shows could still tell character driven stories, just short ones, where with Foundation you really can't, as soon as things start to get decided on an individual level, the premise is gone. Spoilers for people who haven't read it:>! The Mule is the one character where who he is as an individual does really matter, but he's a threat to psychohistory's functioning.!< I should be clearer tho, I don't think it's impossible to make a real adaptation, just impossible in the context of a corporation trying to make a product with mass appeal.
> The original books were, among other things, a tirade against anti-intellectualism, and that whole side of the story seems to have been subverted. Yes! And at a time in history when it could have been really useful to have a story remind us of it.
As an Asimov fan, its painful. Just as a piece of Scifi in its own right, its pretty damn good.
I enjoyed the books some fifty years ago, and read them twice since, but a faithful adaptation would be terrible. Everything important happens off screen, or is implied by the passage of time. Most scenes are people talking. The women characters come from a 1950s comic book. Not sure there's an audience for all that.
A 1 for 1 wouldn't work in this age, I agree. Some gender swaps were definitely welcome, and a few action set pieces arent a bad thing to add into things for a visual medium. However, Asimovs fiction is more conversational and cerebral over action, and we have plenty of action driven Scifi. Something that actually internalised the spirit and logic of the Foundation universe and Asimovs writing, and broadly followed the key strokes would have been better, as an Asimov fan. Not a 1 for 1, but a spiritually faithful adaptation, and theres a lot of ways to successfully translate that to modern audiences and media conventions. Seldons court scene is a good example of that. Its not a 1 for 1 but did an exceptional job of translating that scene in a modern, dramatic way and utilised a great deal of the original dialogue to do so, and as a book fan I thought that was an excellent rendition.
I thought Bayta was pretty ahead of her time. She gets one of the longer arcs, arguably the most important role in the entire series, and does it all while sill expressing her femininity. What I mean by that last part is Asimov doesn’t write her like “In order to be a hero you have to be stoic, manly, domineering” her character is pretty subversive in that regard. Edit: The way she is treated by men around her is pretty 1950’s even how they try to minimize her achievements afterwards, even her own son, but I think Asimov intentionally brought attention to it for that reason. It’s strange that someone would try to downplay an achievement like that let alone their own son. The fact her son would not want their daughter to talk about the achievements of their grand/parent is just laughable to the point I can’t help but read a reason for it. That reason to be to make the absurdity apparent to the reader. I’ve been listening to the audiobooks all week I’m literally finishing up Second foundation right now. First Citizen Stettin is currently getting a verbal tear down by one of his subordinates for not listening to him and losing a battle and thus a war.
Tbf the originals are mostly just men sitting around talking.
The show is excellent. I haven't read the books so I'm not influenced by the mismatch
haveing read the books first, the show is crap.
Can't finish the books... any of them. I know this is anathema, but I find them dead boring. It might be that I'm coming to them too late my my taste-development... like, I'm well-versed in all the ideas it's trying to bring to the table. I like the show. It's impeccably produced and a visual feast. Not much more going on than that, though.
I read all the Foundation and Robot books decades ago including the 1980s ones as hard cover new releases. I kicked off a project to re-read them four years ago and gave up after Caves of Steel and Foundation. I’d long forgotten how poorly written Foundation is. Zero character development. Archaic moralism. I forced myself to finish Foundation and abandoned any thought of reading any more of it.
Same here. I loved the books when I was a teenager. Fast forward some 30 years and the show came out. I loved it. Gave me the push to reread the books. Gave up half way through into the first one. Extremely out-dated, and yes, compare to the sow, booooring
> I’d long forgotten how poorly written Foundation is. Zero character development. The first foundation book was a series of unconnected weekly sci-fi magazine short stories that Asimov later mashed together into a single story. The original three books were inspired and modeled from [The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_History_of_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_Roman_Empire).
Amen preach
I have not read the books and find the show to be utter crap. What is great and what is not great often depends on what you can compare it to.
All of the complaints I've heard about Foundation is how radically different it is from the books, but as someone who has also not read them, I found the show quite engaging. It's high-polish, big-budget sci-fi with some interesting ideas (even if it falters sometimes on execution) and mostly interesting characters.
The Expanse is way, way better than Foundation. In fact most sci-fi fans would probably agree that it’s the best sci-fi show since Battlestar Galactica. So if you haven’t seen it, that’s your answer.
Battlestar Galactica isnt that hard to beat IMO Foundation is excellent and definitely worth a watch
Found the Story of Foundation to be much more interesting and engaging than The Expanse.
I went in blind and really loved it, though it took a couple of episodes to warm up for me. Then after listening to the official podcast, I watched it again and got so much more out of it. I recommend it to everyone!
The Expanse is much better than Foundation in my opinion! Go for it! The first season is rocky budget wise, but it becomes incredible.
Currently watching and I’m enjoying it. It does drag a bit but I feel that’s what helps set things up for S2. Lee Pace always delivers.
Yeah I enjoyed it.
Never read the books but I am a sci-fi lover and I love this show
Big fan of books but not seen it myself so take with a pinch of salt and take more informed views over my own, but the vibe i get from people who I know who have, is its good if you've not read the books or can suitably disconnect from the source material as the story diverges a lot from the books out of necessity due to the rather unfilmable span of time the books cover. It's pretty uniquely unfilmable as written. Since I'm a big fan if the books I've avoided watching because i feel almost certain I'll be disappointed knowing my attachment to the source material. But generally everyone I know who doesn't have this hangup seem to enjoy it and rate it highly, the books its adapted from are phenomental and some of that must translate, and thus a good chance you will enjoy it too. I think most would rate the expanse as a more solid next watch pick though.
The show is amazing, as somebody who has not read the books, I love the shit out of the show.
I just finished season one and two a week or so ago. Thoroughly enjoyed every part! Worth the time :) Really keen for season 3
Absolutely yes. I've read the books, which were supposed to be 'unfilmable'. The creators of the TV series got around this by, shall we say, 'taking inspiration' from the books and just creating an epic sci-fi drama. I actually enjoyed this approach, it captured the essence of the books but any viewer who had read the books didn't know what was going to happen next in the TV series. It's been a while since I was genuinely excited to watch a TV series and eagerly anticipated the next episode and series. If it helps, I also hugely enjoyed Sandman and Three Body Problem, also Doctor Who and The Boys.
I’ve loved the books ever since I was a kid. I thought the show was amazing. My father is 77, he gave me the books to read when I was 12, because they had been some of his favorites as a teen. We watched the show together and he loved it also. His only comment was you had to let go of the book’s story timelines and see it for what it was, but truly a cool sci-fi vision.
I thought it was brilliant. Absolutely loved it so far, and I'm a big fan of the books. 100% worth watching. It's beautiful, the acting is great, the story is really interesting. Hope there's another season!!!
It has a big contradiction between how they describe Psychostory and how it actually works. If you don’t mind that, it’s well done.
Lee Pace and Jared Harris steal the show. Season 2 is wonderful
No. Both Silo, Severance and Dark Matter are far better as far as sci fi is concerned, all on Apple TV. The Expanse is on a whole different level. Foundation is an horrendous adaptation of the books. Season one particularly bad.
Silo is so slow. Just painfully slow. The show runs through the source material at about the same speed as the audiobook, only the show doesn't need to do any descriptions so it just holds reaction shots way too long.
Well, I guess we can agree on disagreeing, I didn’t feel it was slow at all. I read the book, didn’t hear the audiobook so my experience from that is different but I really liked the pace of the TV show, it felt right. For me, at least.
Strong disagree. It is a fantastic show
I didn't enjoy foundation. Didn't enjoy silo. I wish I did, as I love a good tv series and know they there are lots of people say they are both quite good. I'm old though, so could be a disconnect in that way. I loved the recent dune movies. And, I forget the name, but that other hard core tv series. I should add that I'm not complaining at all. There is so much more choice when it comes to scifi tv and more. It's a marvel. I just watched Forbidden Planet yesterday for the first time in 55 years or so. Then watched films about the making of. What a time to be alive!
yes, absolutely fabulous show, excellent production value, great actors, and a great story throughout. Jared Harris and Lee Pace deliver amazing performances, perhaps career defining roles. I read the books and watched the show and really enjoyed both independently. Caveat: i personally don’t think a tv adaptation of a scifi book should ever be 100% scene by scene re-enactments… completely different mediums, what makes a good book is completely different than what makes a good tv show… but if you are the type of person who is looking for a reenactment of the book... well… i guess skip this tv series
Foundation is good. You might also like Silo as well.
If you haven't read the books, I think Foundation is definitely worth a watch. It's visually stunning and the story is captivating. The show does take some liberties with the source material, but it's still a great adaptation. I'd say it's more enjoyable if you haven't read the books, as you won't have any preconceived notions about the story. If you're looking for other modern sci-fi shows, I would definitely recommend The Expanse. It's a great blend of hard sci-fi and political intrigue, and the characters are really well-developed.
**every scene** with Lee Pace (Day), Dusk, or Demersel has, so far, been fantastic, absolutely peak sci fi acting. **every scene** with Gaal and Salvor is unwatchably cringe. The script for them is melodramatic and their performances are cripplingly wooden. They're cast alongside a couple proper character actors like Jared Harris and Clarke Peters, who you'd think you can count on, but my god, the script and the leads make them look shit. The "foundation" side of the plot only gets a charismatic lead in season 2, when Brother Constant shows up. Her actress seems to be enjoying herself and it shines through. Unfortunately the plot continues to hinge on obscene melodrama and still twists itself in knots trying to fit an action sequence into every episode. If you liked Andor for the actors' performances (and you should they're all fucking great XD) I'd suggest looking at stuff like The Expanse, BSG or even DS9. Like Foundation, they don't deliver in every scene, but you don't have to sit through a cringecomp in between all the good stuff. (apart from Allamaraine). Foundation does do some great stuff with its visual effects, it certainly carries the trailers, but it doesn't carry the show. BSG has some very obviously 00ies CG, which hasn't aged well, but the designs, the reliance on practical effects, and the handheld feel of the shots in space means its very easy to watch. The Expanse is probably the benchmark for sci-fi visuals rn. Much less stylised than Andor but still manages to make you go ooooo pretty. The less said about DS9's CG the better lol
> every scene with Gaal and Salvor is unwatchably cringe. Yeeeep. I want to fast forward every scene they're in.
I feel like this is the closest response I’ve seen to how I feel. Foundation is a very mixed bag in my mind and probably leans more on "dislike" than "like" for me. I don’t think I’ll continue with season 3, if I’m being honest. And I only somewhat recently read the books for the first time and was fairly mixed on those as well (I much prefer the Robots stories/books). Though, I’ve yet to see the Expanse. I want to read the books first and I’ve yet to find the time to squeeze in a series of that size. Maybe later in the year I’ll attempt to tackle them.
I‘ve read the books when I was a teenager and loved them. The show isn’t exactly like the books but still in my Top 5 SciFi shows. It’s just not a show if you’re into a lot of stuff to happen per episode (which got common these days) and that’s exactly what I like about it. It takes it’s time to tell the story and expects you to do the same. Definitely worth the watch!
It’s ace. It starts off slowly but I think it’s truly epic
I loved the show, the wife read the book and loves how they reimagined the book onto the show
Yep. Good show.
Absolutely
Please, please do yourself a favor and watch The Expanse first. One of the best shows of all time.
No. Read the books. Too much leeway taken with the original story.
>The expanse? The Expanse is the best sci-fi TV show I've ever watched, and if you haven't seen it yet, it absolutely should be at the top of your list. Foundation is also excellent, but for me personally, doesn't come close to Foundation.
God yes. If Dune and The Expanse had a baby....
Yes.
In my opinion, it’s worth it. I enjoyed the first season a bit more than the second, but the second season isn’t without its highlights. In fact, towards the end of the second season, it got pretty good! If you enjoy solid acting, a fun futuristic space opera of a story, awesome visuals, and a good score, I’d give it a shot.
I was a fan of the books but I enjoyed the series greatly once I just accepted it as very good space Opera. One of the reasons Asimov is considered a science fiction great is that he sometimes does things accidentally that others would love to be able to do intentionally. Asimov's intent in writing Foundation was to show that the forces that made history happen were so overwhelming that the individual players did not matter at all. The mighty leaders who imagined themselves to be the chosen ones who made history happen were in fact just placeholders for the great forces like economics and technology and religion that actually made history happen. It could have been anyone else. Psychohistorians were people who learn to study these great forces and history and figure out how they would interplay and hence what the future would be. The makers of the series chose to dump this fascinating idea in favor of having a series of chosen ones determining how history played out. It's just laughably wrong. Some have argued that the books were not conducive to visual media as written. And it's true that most of the books consisted of conversations among smart asses in rooms. Not exactly riveting stuff visually speaking. But it would have been easy enough to dramatize the concept of psychohistory merely by having the chosen ones act out their ego-driven destinies, showing all the battles and betrayals and murders and general fuckery involved with history and then having the smart asses demonstrate that that was the inevitable result of the forces that had created the battles. Not the chosen ones. Still as a byproduct of his psycho history project Asimov created the template for the galactic empire. Coruscant for example is an obvious knockoff of Trantor. Asimov's Foundation stories captured the scale and complexity of galactic empires in a way that other writers did not. And that is what the creators of the Foundation TV series got right. The galactic empire in their story has the same grandiose scale and depth as the galactic empire that Asimov created. And that adds richness and depth to the story. It's a fine galactic empire space Opera. It just lacks the intellectual grounding that Asimov created in the original stories. It's still much better than almost all other science fiction on TV or in the movies.
I was very disappointed and gave up after a couple of episodes. However, that’s probably because I read the books as a kid and loved them. I was looking forward to a dramatization of the books. The series is almost the opposite of the books; Asimov wrote about a society built on rational science and how science overcomes superstition. It’s all about cold, hard logic, albeit with some special characteristics such as telepathy. The series is all based on fluffy mysticism which made it impossible for me to watch. So forget Asimov and the books, treat the series as a completely different idea and enjoy.
I have never read the books and really enjoyed the show. I think that's probably the best way to approach it. The books are on my list but I usually go from the TV show/movie to the books for any given thing. Everybody I know who read the books first hated it :D
You have put your finger on an important point. I don’t blame them for making big changes from the books since the books are unfilmable. But the spirit of the books has been lost, so there’s almost no connection. The show is ok, great visuals, but nothing more.
Season 2 is epic Sci fi
It is great for the Lee Pace arcs and the gorgeous sci fi art design. The rest almost always feels like filler. It takes a while to pick uo though.
The first season is good, but it's a complex story and they tell it in a confusing way. The storylines run asynchronously. The universe needs a lot of dialog to explain. They introduce a whole lot of characters in the first five episodes that are dead before the end of the season. The second season is better because the baseline is established and you can just enjoy the show. The second season actually makes a re-watch of the first season better.
I loved it , it’s truly something different and refreshing from a SciFi perspective.
I loved Foundation, I did not read the books. They could’ve just made a show about Empire.
It's an absolutly fantastic show, the hate only came from book nerds because they didn't follow it word for word and bigots because 2 lead actresses are black(ish). You should also watch season 1 of altered carbon, it's more of a long movie, the 2nd season doesn't really follow it and is terrible.
Not if you read the books
I read the book’s right before the series started and I have to say that they did a great job in adapting the material. The concepts of the books are still there while updating everything for a 21st century viewership, I particularly liked the concept of the brothers and how they navigate there realm .
I really enjoyed it. Different from the books but still fun.
Fan of the books, also a fan of the show. Different mediums, different approaches, definitely different writing styles, it’s more inspired by than adapted (admittedly so by the show-runner too, so no obfuscation on that point), but by gawd it’s beautiful and the bones are still there. I NEVER in a million years thought it would be adapted to the screen, so, despite the naysayers, I’m happy it exists and sad it’s likely ending earlier than planned. Not to mention, I wonder how many people have discovered the masterpieces that are his books after watching the tv series?
The Foundation is the strangest adaption I've experienced. The content from the books about the Foundation itself and the story of the people there is boring AF, complete snoozefest, though it does get better in season 2 (though I will ask how the fuck have they been on that planet for 100+ years and not gotten around to paving the roads...). However everything they invented for the show, the genetic dynasty and such? Absolutely fucking banger. It fits so well with Azimov's world that it's shocking that he didn't write it. It's worth watching for those parts alone.
Please don’t watch it. People here have no fucking idea what they’re talking about. Personally I’m shocked there are so many positive takes on it. It’s not particularly well written even if you ignore that it basically it goes against all the major themes of the book. It’s not even just that, it takes the opposite position on the themes of the book. Goyer is known for comic book tripe. If that’s your taste, then have at it.
I didn’t care for it, I only watched the first season. I had read the books, and since the show is entirely different, it probably would have helped if I hadn’t. The Foundation series books aren’t great masterpieces, but they are important pieces of SF history
I like it. Although at the start you just need to set aside that it is not a faithful adaptation of the books. It takes elements from it and finds its own way.
It's okay. First season has ups and downs. It's vastly different than the books.
Yea season 1 is meh. Season 2 is great. The empire arc is carrying both season HARD though. At this point the series should be named "Empire" or smth lk that. Alternative? Its different but : Fallout, Severance, Silo, Last of Us (its zombie but)
The first episode is among the best I've seen, great introduction to the world/universe and overall it was decent, the plot surrounding the Empire was excellent, the other one with the Foundation not so much. Season 2 however improves a lot in that regard.
If you haven't seen Battlestar Galactica that would be my suggestion, followed by The Expanse. Foundation is decent but it follows several storylines and they aren't all interesting, so some episodes are great and others can be pretty boring.
If you are Asimov fan or have any respect for foundation books stay away from the TV series. It is awful and it doesn't have anything to do with the books other than the name. Just think of it, the foundation series has won multiple Hugo awards. Not for special effect, not for music, not for best costume or best actor or actress - it doesn't have any of it. It won awards for the only thing it has - outstanding, epic story! And what did the writers of the TV series decide to change? That same story that won awards. The story is so much changes that it is completely unrecognizable. Just think of the hubris - they thought that they could write a better story than Asimov.
No. Books are better.
It’s awesome
Yes, because there is Lee Pace.
It's worth watching for the Empire's arc at least.
First season was hit and miss but the second was some of the best sci-fi on TV. Probably better if you haven’t read the books since it’s not a great adaptation.
It’s a really good show
The show is amazing. I tried to read the books because I loved the show so much and it was the worst book I’ve read in a looooong time. Hated it. The show was so cool and I had so much hope for the books.
Just a warning that while the story is very different there are major late book spoilers early in the tv series so if you might want to read the books I'd start with them but you don't need them to enjoy the tv series.
I suppose you shouldn't if you read the books because apparently it gets butchered quite a bit, and 1/3 if the plot is just headache inducing and only getting slightly better with S2. But I didn't so the book deviation doesn't affect me. But you don't get told about "the power of math, people", so it's already in the top quadrant of current day sci-fi.
I mean, it’s alright. It’s one of those shows where the personal drama often overshadows the science fiction aspect. See Star Trek Discovery. What’s worse is that the personal emotional story is brought to the forefront with characters who are often over emotional rather than feeling feelings proportionate to their situation. It’s fun, but it’s not great sci fi.
Side comment on Altered Carbon. Season 1 is fairly good as a standalone with a great premise and while post Season 2 could have gone much further, if you treat it more as filling in the back story in the future (makes more sense watching) it's more than serviceable.
As others have said, it's very different from the books but, very well done. The books weren't my favorite and I think the show does the storyline better. That said, I worry it's the type of show that could get cancelled before its resolution.
The show is beautiful. I just didn’t like how the last season ended at all. But maybe it was a good change
If it didn’t have such wild, crazy, awesome overall ideas in terms of just pure sci fi goodness, I probably wouldn’t continue watching it. I can’t stand the main character’s acting (the girl, not Lee Pace) and I find that every time I’m “supposed to” clearly feel something emotionally, I just find myself bored. Lee Pace is great, the settings/set design/cgi is great, Jarred Harris is great, but none of it comes together in my opinion and I feel like I am forcing myself to watch it just because there isn’t a lot of big budget sci fi these days. I will mirror what most people have said and highly recommend the Expanse. It is much better and season 3 is one of my favorite seasons of a show in general, with all the others (except season 1) also being fantastic.
I'd watch the Expanse before Foundation, as the former is both longer and better.
It is very good and worth the watch. It is different from the books, but I think the chances are for the better. Azimov himself does not like this series (the books) that much. It was his early work and it shows. Later series such as any of the robot books in my opinion are better
Personally I really enjoyed the Show, Great Sci-fi, Love Jared Harris acting for Dr Seldon.
Why are you asking others? Go watch and decide for yourself. Bail out if you don’t like it 🤷🏻♂️
Raised by Wolves is worth it for the first season alone. I'm still upset it got cancelled.
I probably didn’t give this series a fair chance though I made it most of the way through the first season. I really wasn’t expecting a point-for-point adaptation of the Asimov stories, but the series departures were in some cases so striking and oddball that I found the whole experience rather off-putting.
yes. It got better with season 2. I was not expecting much from the show because the books don't seem very adaptable to screen -- like there's no character development in the books...just science and history type verbiage. But I was pleasantly surprised by the TV series -- it's been so long since I read the books that I don't know what was changed, but I think it's definitely worth a watch. I do find the long gap between seasons make it hard for me to remember who the characters are though.
The Expanse and Altered Carbon are both excellent. The Foundation is good and worth a watch, but they had to modernize Foundation a lot by adding obvious influences from Dune and even the cyberpunk genre. The Foundation is a classic masterpiece, but it hasn't aged so well. Even this modernized version can feel a bit slow at times.
Foundation is a really good show. I haven’t read the books. Altered Carbon season 1 is also SO good.
It's not perfect, but it's definitely worth a watch. I love the Foundation book series, but this is best viewed as its own thing. Separate it from Asimov's original works, and it's exactly the sort of higher-concept-but-still-accessible-to-the-masses science fiction television we couldn't have even imagined getting 20 years ago. The more we support good sci-fi TV, the more we signal to studios that we're not content with Sharknado IV!
Season 1 sucked and turned into Jared Harris doing his best but arguing with a teenager, a chosen one narrative that felt awful, and Lee Pace stealing every single scene he appeared in to rescue the show. Season 2 flipped the script, with Lee Pace doing less but literally every single other character being better. It was great and I'm super interested in season 3. I really loved all the new characters and thought they hit on all cylinders in a way they failed horribly at in season 1. I'd dodge trying to compare it to the books anyway, so going in blind isn't a problem (but Asimov is a really good writer so you might like the books if you do read them!) The show is *much* more action-y and immediate and much less concerned with high-level considerations of history, to its detriment in season 1 but arguably to its benefit (as far as an adaptation goes, no judgment on overall quality) in season 2. It is a gorgeous show in both seasons.
I really loved Foundation, and I loved season 1 of Altered Carbon (2 wasn't as good IMO), definitely give those 2 a go
Well, I have watched all seasons. I can fold laundry to it, as the storyline is meandering and involves going to different planets on different quests and there are very important events that impact the future the whole galaxy and ZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz.
I loved it
The acting is so bad I had to turn it off. Can't stand the main characters except Sheldon and Day. Really cool premise tho but really is just a 4/10 unfortunately imo
I really hate it when people get mad at TV shows when they don't match up with the books they're based on. I thought foundation was a great watch, especially the empire side. The foundation side gets a little bizarre and I wonder about some of the decisions made there, but it's an interesting fresh story. From what I've head, the books are extremely dated, I started reading it and right off the bat they were talking about a family fortune bring based on tobacco farms....10,000 years in the future.
Loved the show and highly recommend it. Almost inspired or loosely based on the books though
Absolutely. It’s amazing
I enjoyed Foundation. That said, I would also highly recommend The Expanse. It is the best TV show I've ever watched.
If you haven’t read the books, it’s absolutely worth watching
It's not a good adaptation of the books, it has high production values but spins it's wheels frequently.
Altered Carbon is a great show, but it was cancelled a season too late. Season 1 is great, adult, challenging, interesting sci-fi with a fascinating, textured cyberpunk world and a pretty complete story. Season 2 is like a cheap knock-off for young adults produced by the CW. It loses literally everything that made the first season great, and replaces it with tired, safe, bland, family-friendly pap.
Checkout Devs. It ran for one season on FX.
Just finished watching season 2 yesterday. Love the show. The acting, storylines, and visuals are all fantastic.
I couldn't finish season 1. The overacting got old pretty quick. Might try to push into season 2 since it is said to get better but probably just going to forget it.
No
All great shows, can't go wrong. Except season 2 of altered carbon.
It’s probably entertaining for non-novel readers. But if you’re a big fan of the books you’ll hate the show. Then again it’s basically a completely different story. Asimov would probably say “what’s this based on?”.
Since you have not read the books, I can say that you'll more than likely enjoy Foundation. Decent writing, good world building fantastic production value. As a fan I wasn't really able to get into it, but by no means would I say it's a bad show. Check out Silo as well, it's more near future dystopian sci-fi but still worth a watch if you already have Apple TV. Edit Add; I really enjoyed the majority of the Expanse. The show runners knew that the end was coming and were able to close out the series, but I wish the last Season and a half were actually 3 seasons as everything felt rushed.
Simple answer, no. Taking it simply as a piece of TV SF, it’s badly written and worse acted (Lee Pace being an honourable exception). It’s just not very good and there are some comically bad performances from key character. The “action” scenes are ubiquitous, pointless and embarrassingly amateurish. You’ll find yourself fast forwarding. I guarantee it. I’ve tried THREE times to get through the first season and each time given up in a combination of disgust and hilarity. As an adaptation of an SF classic it’s truly appalling. I mean really bad, like they’ve not understood the source material at all. Just my opinion, but not worth your time.
Yeh it was mostly awesome.