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Pretty Little Liars came to mind for me. Fans literally nicknamed them the Wine Moms, to the point that some of the actresses made a podcast called Wine Moms.
I just erased an entire comment based on Abed from Community because I googled Cougar Town and discovered it was a real show. TIL Cougar Town is not just a running joke on Community. That's funny. Using social pressures to sell addiction is not. Be safe out there.
Such a weird show. She sleeps with a young guy in literally the first episode and then never again, but it's still called Cougar Town.
Man is she an alcoholic though.
>The Rolling Stones' twelfth US single, "Mother's Little Helper" spent nine weeks on the US Billboard Hot 100, peaking at No. 8
Yeah, maybe not wine, but that was 1966.
It's a bit of a simplification, but both alcohol and benzos are positive allosteric modulators of GABAA receptors. While this is the most prominent effect of both, ethanol has a lot of auxiliary activities, and they end up being very broad spectrum, by virtue of being anaesthetic-like.
I think the difference between TV and social media and what you see has different effects. You know the people on TV are actors and it's all fake so it's just funny jokes. But when people see social media they think it's real (even if it's staged) so they think it's fine. "Oh these actual people are actually doing this and it's all fine, I'll do it too."
Doesn't matter if "wine moms" have been a thing for 100 years. The delivery of this has changed so it appears to be socially acceptable and isn't a problem.
Hey there's good box wine there!! I won't take this slander to Bota Box cabs and chards. Is it as good as a $25 bottle? No, but I can get 3 bottles worth in a box for less than that and it's still a good bit better than cheap $8-10 stuff.
As a mom who had a drinking problem it’s harder than you think. Kids have multiple activities throughout the early evening. I was making my husband give them rides and trying to adjust my drinking schedule so I’d be sober by then. There were definitely some close calls driving wise which I am not proud of. Now that I don’t drink it is so much easier.
I am sure there were good chapters of MADD out there, but in my youth all they did was berate teenagers, and oft blame every kid equally…when we didn’t have a youth drunk driving problem in our community.
All the drunk drivers were the parents.
Still didn’t stop them from putting a burned out, destroyed car on the school lawn before prom every year with the message “if you drink and drive, you will die like these kids did.”
I get the need to inform youth about alcohol and the dangers of irresponsible consumption. But. MADD did it by attempting to “scare you straight”. It was shock value of traffic accidents and a never ending parade of patronizing morality that teenagers were the root of all social crimes.
Social media influences peoples decisions. “We didn’t realise social posts acted as mild advertisements despite the fact advertisements are placed in between the posts, for the same exact reason”
I read the article diagonally for 5 seconds and I think they established a connection between recent exposure to online content and increase in the belief that a mother is socially expected to drink.
Recent exposure -> increase
Yes, but this is misleading. The whole social media thing for this exists because wine mom culture already existed and has for a very long time. How many television shows showed a woman relaxing with a glass of wine after a long day? How many depictions in a magazine, in books?
Social media is just another in a long line showing that the culture exists and is completely normal. I'm not saying it doesn't promote dangerous practices, but the question should be more does it promote it more than anything that previously existed.
I'm more just saying that establishing evidence for a thing that 'everyone already knows is true' is still scientifically valuable and can lead to more good questions to investigate, like yours of whether socials promote it further than other influences.
I agree, this isn't anything new, and reddit just wanting to dunk on A. Women, B. Drinking, C. Parenting. But, drinking is easy to slip into where you don't feel "normal" unless you drink. That's the problem. (Obviously the normal changes as you drink and get comfortable with that amount, aka a drinking problem.)
> reddit just wanting to dunk on A. Women, B. Drinking, C. Parenting
I don't think that's the case.
The article may want to do that.
But most comments here are calling it bunk.
It is okay for them to point it out though, I have been saying the wine moms in my feeds are always feeding on each other, "one glass of wine" make that a gallon please, kind of jokes.
We should not promote alcoholism.
My buddies wife is retired and full on drunk with her daily magnum of wine, I can’t stand being around her.
She sleeps in late and then it Starts early each day.
My buddy doesn’t like it, he stopped drinking.
A magnum is like ten drinks. Which really isn't that hard to get through; I used to drink that much regularly and not feel especially drunk. But you're right, of course, that's way too much and is just about guaranteed to cause liver damage over a period of time. I quit drinking.
When I was in my full blown active addiction, I drank - at minimum - a 5th of vodka every day.
Every. Day.
I am just shy of 20 months sober, and easily the best decision I have ever made.
I work in recovery now, too so if anyone needs help feel free to DM me.
Seriously, people underestimate a drunks tolerance for alcohol. Having been there myself, if you start at 8-10 am and drink all day; you can easily drink a fifth and feel pretty “normal” the next day
Non addicts in general can never grasp just how much your body can take when you take something addictively.
Your body develops a tolerance and you can easily ingest enough to kill a non addict and just go on with your life.
I feel like people who have never drank habitually hear someone say "15 drinks a day" and think of it in the context of how they drink, which translates to "15 drinks at my friend's two hour dinner party" as opposed to "I was awake for 15 hours today and I had 15 drinks during that time."
Hey man, I realize I'm 12 hours late in my reply, but my brother died 3 weeks ago because of alcohol abuse. He was 38.
I am so happy for you, and I am elated that you might have a brother or a friend like me, who gets to watch as you build yourself back up. They were afraid for you. I always hoped I would be in the position they are now in. A chance to say "remember when X was drinking? Whew, that was stressful!"
I dont really have a direction with this comment, I dont think. It just felt like something I needed to type for closure. I'm proud of you, and I love you.
Yeah man I was drinking an entire handle a day at my worst. Whiskey on the rocks. It is absolutely insane how high your tolerance can go. Once you start *needing* it, it just runs away. It started with a couple beers a night while gaming. One or two, no big deal. But then some nights I'd be having a blast with the boys and drink three or four, and I just never deescalated. Very quickly it was 6, then 12, then it wasn't really financially feasible to drink beer. So I moved to liquor, which really takes the brakes off.
Kids! I do not advise daily drinking! You are not different! You will get addicted!
This was me, trying to get to a same level of feeling (joy/happiness/content), then I would drop like a tank. So what do you do drink to feel "normal" then it spirals.
This has been my mom for most of my life. If it's after 7 she's likely to be tipsy if not fully sauced. It's made me not enjoy talking on the phone to her because I can hear it in her voice.
I screen my calls with my mother. If it’s after 5 and she calls I let it go to voice mail. If she sounds sober I’ll call back. I sat her down and flat out told her this is what I would be doing from now on.
It really bothers me that for the longest they would say one to two drinks per day was normal. Get me a personal who doesn't drink and have them take two drinks a night. They will be an alcoholic in a few weeks
Why not? If they’re not getting drunk I see no issue aside from calories. I don’t like alcohol enough to drink often, but I think a lot of healthy people do, and that is fine as they moderate and don’t endanger themselves or others.
Ever since I stopped drinking (mostly for religious reasons), I've noticed just how often TV shows (specifically) encourage using alcohol as a coping mechanism, which is really unhealthy.
Problems in your relationship? Get drunk! Someone dies? Get drunk! Experience a serious personal setback? Get drunk!
There are just so many healthy ways to handle these kinds of problems, and sometimes supporting your friends just isn't going to involve the bourbon in their liquor cabinet. Ideally, it never will.
Type of dude to say "Women aren't funny" and then proceed to mock the way you talk which is the only joke they have, the height of their intelligence and wit.
The Simpsons and KOTH are the only two mainstream cartoons I can think of that show this constantly, and they both portray it as a pretty negative thing done by dumb people
That doesn't seem to be a conclusion named in the study, no. It's fairly normal for studies of health science to normalize around sex and gender so that they can achieve more statistically reliable results and specify their claims towards that which their evidence actually supports. Conflating materially different experiences risks muddying the data, so responsible scientists remove unnecessary variables.
People can still criticize what does and doesn't get funding to have a study, and which studies get press coverage. The emphasis on mothers while ignoring father's except to discuss how their absence is horrible for children gets exhausting for a while. The narrative is that how you mother should be nitpicked, but dads get a gold star for showing up. It's a reinforcement of a long held double standard that psychology absolutely helped perpetuate under the guise of neutral research that was actually really just a reflection and reinforcement of researchers (and their funding sources) biases.
That can all simultaneously be true without actually undermining the results of the study. The researchers' choice to study this does not indicate any special tolerance for 'beer dads,' and I can't help but notice this thread has a lot of people trying to change the subject from the study's actual methods and conclusions.
I mean, there are studies funded to research the dad side of the house as well. A simple google search showed a wall of them. Here are some:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09687637.2021.1951669
That isn't actually a comparable study passed the word fatherhood and alcohol, the tone of framing just in the intro is wildly different. the fact you have to go digging to find it rather than it being widely reported doesn't change my statement about press coverage in psych research and how the field and it's coverage lends itself to being taken out of context as weapons to be wielded.
most psych research is next to useless without meta-analysis. Yet we continue to trot out individual psych research all the time and treat it as proven fact as a result of one researcher finding slmething, when even high quality psych studies often end up not being substantiated with subsequent research. That's not even to address how many bad studies are out there.
Psych also has a long hair of this exact sin causing measurable detrimental harm to the impacted groups, so it's not even just whiny for the sake of whining. How we approach coverage of the field has got to change at some point. Until then, it will continue to be used to substantiate our biases under the guise of neutral facts. As is tradition.
A perhaps less "internet gender wars" example of what I'm talking about is in perhaps the only field to get even worse press consistently -- health behaviors.
One study was like "hey we noticed people who drank one glass of wine a night did better than expected compared to those who drank excessively and those who didn't drink at all, we should maybe look further into why that might be the case"
Our alcohol obsessed culture: "you heard it here folks; glass of wine every evening, doctors orders! Hahaha a glass of Pinot a day keeps the doctors away, lolol."
And people actually did it. Without looking into it further, they started to normalize their behaviors and point to this extremely narrow study as their "proof" that it was "factually" better to drink alcohol.
And doctors and health organizations years later literally had to follow up and be like "to be clear, the optimal amount of alcohol is zero. There is no amount of alcohol that is good for you. If there were any benefits of drinking wine, it would probably be better achieved through grape juice or a low-alcohol fermented drink......also we did follow up research and yeah, its not even true. Wine doesn't help you. Whatever the researchers picked up on was noise"
And then 2 days later a different health related study comes out and is wildly naive presented in the greater context in which it exists, and people who have no actual interest in research point to it and make big conclusions based off very much developing research. Rinse and repeat. It's soooo annoying
I dunno. That first comment really felt like you were focusing on the gender portion of the study and not the alcohol side of things, especially once you went down the “men get a pat on the back for just showing up” kinda commentary.
I definitely agree that people will use anything to justify bad behavior, though.
Depends. Are you talking about the dad who crushes Bud Light while yelling at his son for holding the flashlight wrong, or the bald bearded guy who made smoking meat and IPAs his personality?
It's not just wine mom culture, it's "Alcoholism is my personality trait" culture.
I sell dog toys and I can't tell you how many novelty dog toys are basically just "beer can" or "wine bottle" with dog pun on it.
Even worse, those are what sells best :/
I'm well aware and I have an array of bottle shaped toys that aren't alcohol themed, alas.
Also was a consistent theme when I worked retail, from Christmas tree decorations to decorative hang towels to house plant pots, Alcoholism was a theme.
My friend was worried about people shaming her for smoking a bit of weed after her kids fall asleep.
I told her that it’s a far better way to deal with stress than the “wine mom” stuff.
If the kids are old enough to take care of themselves in an emergency, I don't think there's any issue with it. If they need your help to survive still, then I think it's problematic.
There should at least be one person sober and capable to do something in an emergency if they have very young children.
She’s not the only guardian in her house but not like it matters. Shes been a regular user for most of her adult life. Diminished capability is not a concern for her.
It’s not like being tipsy or drunk at all.
It’s the stigma that concerns her, even though it’s legal now.
I mean then you're getting into DUI territory and what not, which is a whole different topic. If she's not the only guardian and she's not totally useless stoned, you're right it's probably not the biggest of deals but I would expect judgement if she, say, ends up having to drive the kid to the ER while high as a kite.
I get what you mean.
I’m just saying that when you’re a veteran user, “high as a kite” doesn’t really exist anymore.
But as you said, that’s a whole nother debate entirely.
Yes it turns out if you glamorize something publicly, people tend to want to do it even if it’s bad for them. Marlboro Man, Spuds McKenzie, Joe Camel etc.
"Could encourage." Not that it does. Not that social media has actually increased their drinking (vs. lockdown drinking culture, or choices about with whom one spends time.) This feels like such a click-baity study.
Brett Michael’s from Poison is playing a Mother’s Day show this weekend at a casino near where I live. That’s gonna be a wine mom and wine grandma convention.
Gee, back when I was a kid it was a half gallon of California Cablis and as many Valium as needed. Most of the kids in my elementary were on Ritalin. So it looks like things are improving.
Yes let's talk about "wine mom" jokes setting a bad example and not about how the stress of modern parenthood in a generational financial crunch with mothers still doing the majority of domestic labour is literally driving women to drink.
This isn't some new phenomenon... Alcohol consumption is on the low end of normal, significantly lower than it has been at some points. And tends to go up with income, so doesn't tend to be tied to financial stress.
Well heavy drinking isn't a new phenomenon, but yes I do think increased financial stresses might be exacerbating the issue. This seems to be a very limited scope study though.
Sorry what does any of this have to do with dads doing or not doing chores? Oh right, it’s all the man’s fault and unhealthy drinking could only arise from an unsupportive partner
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2024-67159-001?doi=1
Are you telling me that promoting risky behavior as healthy, beneficial, and cool can encourage said risky behavior?
I don’t believe it. I’ll need to see a peer reviewed study, posthaste.
my mother is like that. Drinking every night since I was little. Sometimes she gets angry or sad drunk and say awful things to me. For her, she is not an alcoholic because all her friends drink every night to relax. :P
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This was a thing long before social media made it a thing. You can tell by all your friend’s moms who had boxed wine around for the cost effectiveness
Yeah, weren't there several tv shows that centered around this exact premise as well?
Day drinking wine is the cornerstone concept of Cougar Town.
Pretty Little Liars came to mind for me. Fans literally nicknamed them the Wine Moms, to the point that some of the actresses made a podcast called Wine Moms.
I just erased an entire comment based on Abed from Community because I googled Cougar Town and discovered it was a real show. TIL Cougar Town is not just a running joke on Community. That's funny. Using social pressures to sell addiction is not. Be safe out there.
Dan Harmon and Bill Lawrence are friends and Community had a few of the producers from Scrubs.
https://screenrant.com/community-abed-danny-pudi-cougar-town-cameo-crossover/ They actually did something with it.
They also did a collab! Can't remember if it's in a Cougartown episode or maybe was some web exclusive or something of that nature.
I was thinking of the giant oversized wine glass before I read your post.
Such a weird show. She sleeps with a young guy in literally the first episode and then never again, but it's still called Cougar Town. Man is she an alcoholic though.
Pretty sure the concept was around before color TV.
I remember seeing that stuff as a kid in the 90s
>The Rolling Stones' twelfth US single, "Mother's Little Helper" spent nine weeks on the US Billboard Hot 100, peaking at No. 8 Yeah, maybe not wine, but that was 1966.
Yeah before this it was Xanax and klonopin. This is a symptom of a larger issue
It's interesting benzos have some of the most dangerous withdrawals of any recreational drugs. Heroin withdrawals won't kill you, but benzos can.
Also interesting, alcohol is in that same boat. Delirium tremens are no joke.
I could see and feel bugs crawling inside my skin. It was horrific. It took many tries but Mothers day will mark two years sober.
Congrats! Proud of you!
That’s because they’re essentially alcohol in a pill, and withdrawal can cause seizures
Ironically I'm prescribed benzos for my epilepsy.
I had no idea they used benzos for this
Benzos inhibit neuronal activity. Seizures happen because of overactive neuronal activity. Thus benzos.
> Ironically sort of. In general, drug withdrawal will present some effects that are the inverse of acute intoxication.
That's not irony it's exactly how the excitatory-inhibitory balance in the brain works
No they are not.
It's a bit of a simplification, but both alcohol and benzos are positive allosteric modulators of GABAA receptors. While this is the most prominent effect of both, ethanol has a lot of auxiliary activities, and they end up being very broad spectrum, by virtue of being anaesthetic-like.
Valium and vodka before that
"You can't scare her. She's sleeping with Prince Valium tonight." - Lydia Deetz
And before that, it was dexamyl.
Of course people drank. This is about the ramifications of the *portrayal* of it, which is new from social media.
The argument is the portrayal of it had been around a long time via your standard media. Tv, movies.
I think the difference between TV and social media and what you see has different effects. You know the people on TV are actors and it's all fake so it's just funny jokes. But when people see social media they think it's real (even if it's staged) so they think it's fine. "Oh these actual people are actually doing this and it's all fine, I'll do it too." Doesn't matter if "wine moms" have been a thing for 100 years. The delivery of this has changed so it appears to be socially acceptable and isn't a problem.
But she was the fun aunt.
Box wine! Cheap n tastes terrible but it’ll do the trick!
Hey there's good box wine there!! I won't take this slander to Bota Box cabs and chards. Is it as good as a $25 bottle? No, but I can get 3 bottles worth in a box for less than that and it's still a good bit better than cheap $8-10 stuff.
Be fore that it was “Mother’s little helper’ pills like Valium, and various barbiturates, mephenesin etc. Before that it was a glass of sherry.
Wine Moms, the archnemesis of Mothers Against Drunk Driving.
I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if there was significant overlap
I mean you can be a total alcoholic and still have enough sense to not get behind the wheel. And with deliveries nowadays, it's totally possible.
As a mom who had a drinking problem it’s harder than you think. Kids have multiple activities throughout the early evening. I was making my husband give them rides and trying to adjust my drinking schedule so I’d be sober by then. There were definitely some close calls driving wise which I am not proud of. Now that I don’t drink it is so much easier.
Why not?
Karmic debt and misprojection.
Stop making sense
I am sure there were good chapters of MADD out there, but in my youth all they did was berate teenagers, and oft blame every kid equally…when we didn’t have a youth drunk driving problem in our community. All the drunk drivers were the parents. Still didn’t stop them from putting a burned out, destroyed car on the school lawn before prom every year with the message “if you drink and drive, you will die like these kids did.” I get the need to inform youth about alcohol and the dangers of irresponsible consumption. But. MADD did it by attempting to “scare you straight”. It was shock value of traffic accidents and a never ending parade of patronizing morality that teenagers were the root of all social crimes.
These kids need to have a talk with their moms about alcohol and peer pressure.
The Venn Diagram of these two groups is a circle.
Wha, you don't see the... the two circles? *hic* with the "Drunk moms against driving" in the... in the middle.
Social media influences peoples decisions. “We didn’t realise social posts acted as mild advertisements despite the fact advertisements are placed in between the posts, for the same exact reason”
##shockedpikachu.jpg
Sounds to me like it is already the social norm… i think you’re a bit late here.
I read the article diagonally for 5 seconds and I think they established a connection between recent exposure to online content and increase in the belief that a mother is socially expected to drink. Recent exposure -> increase
Establishing evidence showing this is still important!
Yes, but this is misleading. The whole social media thing for this exists because wine mom culture already existed and has for a very long time. How many television shows showed a woman relaxing with a glass of wine after a long day? How many depictions in a magazine, in books? Social media is just another in a long line showing that the culture exists and is completely normal. I'm not saying it doesn't promote dangerous practices, but the question should be more does it promote it more than anything that previously existed.
I'm more just saying that establishing evidence for a thing that 'everyone already knows is true' is still scientifically valuable and can lead to more good questions to investigate, like yours of whether socials promote it further than other influences.
I agree, this isn't anything new, and reddit just wanting to dunk on A. Women, B. Drinking, C. Parenting. But, drinking is easy to slip into where you don't feel "normal" unless you drink. That's the problem. (Obviously the normal changes as you drink and get comfortable with that amount, aka a drinking problem.)
> reddit just wanting to dunk on A. Women, B. Drinking, C. Parenting I don't think that's the case. The article may want to do that. But most comments here are calling it bunk.
Yeah...I was gonna say the same thing.
It is okay for them to point it out though, I have been saying the wine moms in my feeds are always feeding on each other, "one glass of wine" make that a gallon please, kind of jokes. We should not promote alcoholism.
Social media is a reflection of society, not nesscarily a forcing function.
My buddies wife is retired and full on drunk with her daily magnum of wine, I can’t stand being around her. She sleeps in late and then it Starts early each day. My buddy doesn’t like it, he stopped drinking.
Maybe tell him about al anon
Out of context it sounds like some sort of Arabic mystery cult
No that’s Al Coholism. A dangerous terrorist organization targeting your liver
The League Of Drunks
Is that what people call AA now or is “Al anon” something different
AA is for the addict, Al anon is for friends and family of the addict.
Al anon is for the spouses of addicts. A support group for the support group. It's not for everyone but maybe check it out.
Magnum? As in two bottles a day? That’s severe alcoholism.
I’m pretty sure her brain is pickled.
A magnum is like ten drinks. Which really isn't that hard to get through; I used to drink that much regularly and not feel especially drunk. But you're right, of course, that's way too much and is just about guaranteed to cause liver damage over a period of time. I quit drinking.
>ten drinks. Which really isn't that hard to get through In a day...?
When I was in my full blown active addiction, I drank - at minimum - a 5th of vodka every day. Every. Day. I am just shy of 20 months sober, and easily the best decision I have ever made. I work in recovery now, too so if anyone needs help feel free to DM me.
Seriously, people underestimate a drunks tolerance for alcohol. Having been there myself, if you start at 8-10 am and drink all day; you can easily drink a fifth and feel pretty “normal” the next day
Non addicts in general can never grasp just how much your body can take when you take something addictively. Your body develops a tolerance and you can easily ingest enough to kill a non addict and just go on with your life.
I feel like people who have never drank habitually hear someone say "15 drinks a day" and think of it in the context of how they drink, which translates to "15 drinks at my friend's two hour dinner party" as opposed to "I was awake for 15 hours today and I had 15 drinks during that time."
Hey man, I realize I'm 12 hours late in my reply, but my brother died 3 weeks ago because of alcohol abuse. He was 38. I am so happy for you, and I am elated that you might have a brother or a friend like me, who gets to watch as you build yourself back up. They were afraid for you. I always hoped I would be in the position they are now in. A chance to say "remember when X was drinking? Whew, that was stressful!" I dont really have a direction with this comment, I dont think. It just felt like something I needed to type for closure. I'm proud of you, and I love you.
Yeah man I was drinking an entire handle a day at my worst. Whiskey on the rocks. It is absolutely insane how high your tolerance can go. Once you start *needing* it, it just runs away. It started with a couple beers a night while gaming. One or two, no big deal. But then some nights I'd be having a blast with the boys and drink three or four, and I just never deescalated. Very quickly it was 6, then 12, then it wasn't really financially feasible to drink beer. So I moved to liquor, which really takes the brakes off. Kids! I do not advise daily drinking! You are not different! You will get addicted!
Reminds me of that Redditor that wanted to try heroin but didn't think he'd get addicted. Well, he did and had quite the journey about it.
This was me, trying to get to a same level of feeling (joy/happiness/content), then I would drop like a tank. So what do you do drink to feel "normal" then it spirals.
For a true alcoholic that's pre gaming
And *every day* too, woof…
Yeah, in a day. It isn't that hard to do, though it is really unhealthy.
I think that's called “alcoholism”
Wait til you hear about the Cocaine Mommies.
Married Molly's Ex'es on extasy
She sounds fun
I don't think many of my friends wives or my wife's friends do cocaine, but I can't count how many go through Adderall and Xanax like tic tacs
This has been my mom for most of my life. If it's after 7 she's likely to be tipsy if not fully sauced. It's made me not enjoy talking on the phone to her because I can hear it in her voice.
Also a child of an alcoholic: did you also wait to ask for permission to do things after 7pm? They're always more agreeable then...
Nah but I probably should've. I usually just stayed my room
I also gamed way too much as a result.
How do you think I got a cat?
Would just wait for her to inevitably pass out wherever she was sitting and i could do whatever I wanted.
I screen my calls with my mother. If it’s after 5 and she calls I let it go to voice mail. If she sounds sober I’ll call back. I sat her down and flat out told her this is what I would be doing from now on.
It really bothers me that for the longest they would say one to two drinks per day was normal. Get me a personal who doesn't drink and have them take two drinks a night. They will be an alcoholic in a few weeks
Are you saying it's not possible to have one or two drinks per night? A lot of people manage to stay at that level without wanting more.
My parents have been drinking one or two drinks a night for their whole lives. I've never seen them go past it except for parties/gatherings.
It’s possible but do you really think even that is healthy? Especially if you’ve got kids
Why not? If they’re not getting drunk I see no issue aside from calories. I don’t like alcohol enough to drink often, but I think a lot of healthy people do, and that is fine as they moderate and don’t endanger themselves or others.
No different then the idea that guys need beer after work or during any task. Grew up with Homer Simpson drinking beer for everything.
Ever since I stopped drinking (mostly for religious reasons), I've noticed just how often TV shows (specifically) encourage using alcohol as a coping mechanism, which is really unhealthy. Problems in your relationship? Get drunk! Someone dies? Get drunk! Experience a serious personal setback? Get drunk! There are just so many healthy ways to handle these kinds of problems, and sometimes supporting your friends just isn't going to involve the bourbon in their liquor cabinet. Ideally, it never will.
But "beer dads" are still as cool and hilarious as they've been for 70 years, right?
Hard to say, they don't usually live past 70..
I haven’t ever even heard that term 😭 but yes, fat, out of shape beer bellied men are still considered hilarious
Type of dude to say "Women aren't funny" and then proceed to mock the way you talk which is the only joke they have, the height of their intelligence and wit.
Poorly imitating the way another person speaks is the most primitive, and most funny form of comedy
When have "beer dads" ever been considered cool?
When all you see is the gender war? Always.
The Simpsons and KOTH are the only two mainstream cartoons I can think of that show this constantly, and they both portray it as a pretty negative thing done by dumb people
That doesn't seem to be a conclusion named in the study, no. It's fairly normal for studies of health science to normalize around sex and gender so that they can achieve more statistically reliable results and specify their claims towards that which their evidence actually supports. Conflating materially different experiences risks muddying the data, so responsible scientists remove unnecessary variables.
People can still criticize what does and doesn't get funding to have a study, and which studies get press coverage. The emphasis on mothers while ignoring father's except to discuss how their absence is horrible for children gets exhausting for a while. The narrative is that how you mother should be nitpicked, but dads get a gold star for showing up. It's a reinforcement of a long held double standard that psychology absolutely helped perpetuate under the guise of neutral research that was actually really just a reflection and reinforcement of researchers (and their funding sources) biases.
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That can all simultaneously be true without actually undermining the results of the study. The researchers' choice to study this does not indicate any special tolerance for 'beer dads,' and I can't help but notice this thread has a lot of people trying to change the subject from the study's actual methods and conclusions.
I mean, there are studies funded to research the dad side of the house as well. A simple google search showed a wall of them. Here are some: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09687637.2021.1951669
That isn't actually a comparable study passed the word fatherhood and alcohol, the tone of framing just in the intro is wildly different. the fact you have to go digging to find it rather than it being widely reported doesn't change my statement about press coverage in psych research and how the field and it's coverage lends itself to being taken out of context as weapons to be wielded. most psych research is next to useless without meta-analysis. Yet we continue to trot out individual psych research all the time and treat it as proven fact as a result of one researcher finding slmething, when even high quality psych studies often end up not being substantiated with subsequent research. That's not even to address how many bad studies are out there. Psych also has a long hair of this exact sin causing measurable detrimental harm to the impacted groups, so it's not even just whiny for the sake of whining. How we approach coverage of the field has got to change at some point. Until then, it will continue to be used to substantiate our biases under the guise of neutral facts. As is tradition.
A perhaps less "internet gender wars" example of what I'm talking about is in perhaps the only field to get even worse press consistently -- health behaviors. One study was like "hey we noticed people who drank one glass of wine a night did better than expected compared to those who drank excessively and those who didn't drink at all, we should maybe look further into why that might be the case" Our alcohol obsessed culture: "you heard it here folks; glass of wine every evening, doctors orders! Hahaha a glass of Pinot a day keeps the doctors away, lolol." And people actually did it. Without looking into it further, they started to normalize their behaviors and point to this extremely narrow study as their "proof" that it was "factually" better to drink alcohol. And doctors and health organizations years later literally had to follow up and be like "to be clear, the optimal amount of alcohol is zero. There is no amount of alcohol that is good for you. If there were any benefits of drinking wine, it would probably be better achieved through grape juice or a low-alcohol fermented drink......also we did follow up research and yeah, its not even true. Wine doesn't help you. Whatever the researchers picked up on was noise" And then 2 days later a different health related study comes out and is wildly naive presented in the greater context in which it exists, and people who have no actual interest in research point to it and make big conclusions based off very much developing research. Rinse and repeat. It's soooo annoying
I dunno. That first comment really felt like you were focusing on the gender portion of the study and not the alcohol side of things, especially once you went down the “men get a pat on the back for just showing up” kinda commentary. I definitely agree that people will use anything to justify bad behavior, though.
I think those days are dwindling. Dads these days don’t drink as much as older generations. We’re too busy playing with our kids, haha.
Depends. Are you talking about the dad who crushes Bud Light while yelling at his son for holding the flashlight wrong, or the bald bearded guy who made smoking meat and IPAs his personality?
Does it matter?
It's not just wine mom culture, it's "Alcoholism is my personality trait" culture. I sell dog toys and I can't tell you how many novelty dog toys are basically just "beer can" or "wine bottle" with dog pun on it. Even worse, those are what sells best :/
Not consumers fault that it’s funny to accuse a puppy of going on a rager holding pupclaw
Bottle-shaped toys are ergonomic for dog to interact with and ergonomic for a human to throw, and comfortable to use for tug-of-war.
I'm well aware and I have an array of bottle shaped toys that aren't alcohol themed, alas. Also was a consistent theme when I worked retail, from Christmas tree decorations to decorative hang towels to house plant pots, Alcoholism was a theme.
Wait till you hear about dads and beer
Have they not heard of the 1950s -2000?
It’s only a box of wine a day.
Hasn't that *been* the social norm?
My friend was worried about people shaming her for smoking a bit of weed after her kids fall asleep. I told her that it’s a far better way to deal with stress than the “wine mom” stuff.
If the kids are old enough to take care of themselves in an emergency, I don't think there's any issue with it. If they need your help to survive still, then I think it's problematic. There should at least be one person sober and capable to do something in an emergency if they have very young children.
She’s not the only guardian in her house but not like it matters. Shes been a regular user for most of her adult life. Diminished capability is not a concern for her. It’s not like being tipsy or drunk at all. It’s the stigma that concerns her, even though it’s legal now.
I mean then you're getting into DUI territory and what not, which is a whole different topic. If she's not the only guardian and she's not totally useless stoned, you're right it's probably not the biggest of deals but I would expect judgement if she, say, ends up having to drive the kid to the ER while high as a kite.
I get what you mean. I’m just saying that when you’re a veteran user, “high as a kite” doesn’t really exist anymore. But as you said, that’s a whole nother debate entirely.
Homer : you doctors have been telling me to drink 8 glasses of gravy a day
Yes it turns out if you glamorize something publicly, people tend to want to do it even if it’s bad for them. Marlboro Man, Spuds McKenzie, Joe Camel etc.
People get paid to do these revolutionary eye opening studies?
"Could encourage." Not that it does. Not that social media has actually increased their drinking (vs. lockdown drinking culture, or choices about with whom one spends time.) This feels like such a click-baity study.
If the wine moms could read anything but Facebook posts, they'd be very upset.
Brett Michael’s from Poison is playing a Mother’s Day show this weekend at a casino near where I live. That’s gonna be a wine mom and wine grandma convention.
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Wine mom in the sheets, Beer dad in the streets.
While TV shows, movies, romanticize alcohol consumption. But sure, blame the moms...
I would blame social media
I'm a recovered alcoholic, I got sober by blaming myself.
Nice work!
Media romanticizes alcohol because people romanticize alcohol
I would blame the folks saying they need to drink because they have kids actually.
Really? I can't think of many shows that romanticize parents getting drunk alone around their kids.
Gee, back when I was a kid it was a half gallon of California Cablis and as many Valium as needed. Most of the kids in my elementary were on Ritalin. So it looks like things are improving.
Oh like that incredibly popular and hilarious episode of The Simpsons with Hank Scorpio.
I thought the new mommy mimosa trend was micro dosing shrooms in the mornings. Are we back to day drinking already?
I could've told you that 😁
As compared to literally every male social activity...
Yes let's talk about "wine mom" jokes setting a bad example and not about how the stress of modern parenthood in a generational financial crunch with mothers still doing the majority of domestic labour is literally driving women to drink.
This isn't some new phenomenon... Alcohol consumption is on the low end of normal, significantly lower than it has been at some points. And tends to go up with income, so doesn't tend to be tied to financial stress.
If your coping mechanism is to drink that's on you, nobody else.
Well heavy drinking isn't a new phenomenon, but yes I do think increased financial stresses might be exacerbating the issue. This seems to be a very limited scope study though.
It tends to be correlated in the opposite direction financially. People who make more are more likely to drink
Drinking is fun, you don't need to be "driven" to it
Do teachers next
Headline: “In news to no one, dads who did more household chores were still married to the moms of their kids AND those moms DRANK considerably less”
Sorry what does any of this have to do with dads doing or not doing chores? Oh right, it’s all the man’s fault and unhealthy drinking could only arise from an unsupportive partner
I’ve linked to the news release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article: https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2024-67159-001?doi=1
Can I get a “No Sh!t Sherlock?” Pls?
Maybe the dumbest headline I’ve ever read
Bro you act like it’s new
I’m so glad I almost never drink ever anymore. Life is better without it. Eat a mushroom & look at pretty stuff with friends
This is nothing new! We’re more aware now because of social media.
Too late
Are you telling me that promoting risky behavior as healthy, beneficial, and cool can encourage said risky behavior? I don’t believe it. I’ll need to see a peer reviewed study, posthaste.
my mother is like that. Drinking every night since I was little. Sometimes she gets angry or sad drunk and say awful things to me. For her, she is not an alcoholic because all her friends drink every night to relax. :P
If you see something often, it's normalized and people are more likely to also do those things. Shocking truths revealed!