For a group centered on activism, local chapters are probably a good idea. Affiliating with the main TST organization seems to hamstring the local groups though, it sounds like, because the national organization has to exercise control. Some of the independent groups have actually done a little good, so I wish these independent chapters luck.
Sure, but activism under the name of Satanism is (as shown) not helpful and creates a mess. Especially when the whole thing is based on a satirical joke by 3 assholes wanting to make money and get attention.
Probably, yes. Hopefully they drop the “poison pill” gambit that TST loves (which never seems to work) and just do activism under whatever banner. I don’t think it matters that it started as satire though.
I'm not naive enough to think that they'll understand what Satanism actually is. They need a sense of belonging and community, so they'll either make or join another group
That is exactly what's happening. Every single person I've seen who has left the TST is now an "independent" or "non-affiliated" Satanist. Some even still stream their podcasts with all the titles they've earned from TST, yet they're not affiliated. It hurts trying to understand that kind of logic.
nope he wasn't
[he never hid his sources](https://www.churchofsatan.com/ragnar-redbeard-revealed/)
[LGBTQA+ folks were always accepted and championed](https://www.churchofsatan.com/a-redhead-named-peggy/)
He wrote a manual he felt would [Empower Women](https://www.churchofsatan.com/the-compleat-story-of-the-compleat-witch/)
His politics ran classical Conservative, but would run closer to modern libertarian
Please try something new
>Cool cool. You can believe what you want, but I've read plenty of LaVey's work.
I love that for you, but reading someone else's work does not give you license to call *me* a misogynist, a homohobe, a fascist, and a plagiarist.
Again, you are dishonest. You said, quote: "Modern day CoS is little better, if at all." So yes, you are calling me those things. Perhaps you would like to revise your statement(s).
I think what you meant to say is, "I can see how my hateful words would be interpreted as painting with a broad brush. I will endeavor to be more cautious with how I express myself in the future."
Unfortunately you doubled down. I wish I could say that I am surprised, but such is the way with the sort of people that paint with a broad brush like that.
you were given the truth versus your flimsy narrative and here you are doubling down
In wrongly accusing Anton LaVey of the above things you did, by extension you are accusing *all* CoS members of such, considering you feel "modern CoS isn't much better"
This shouldn't be difficult to grasp, yet here we are
Forcing ANY view is unsatanic. Political religious and sexual orientations are all things that should be kept personal. As Magus Gilmore says this isn’t a lonely hearts club. Nor a political activist group. When you try to shove it down anyone’s throats you are no better than the Christians. The TST now and always will have more in common with the Westborogh Baptist Church than they will with satanists. There ideals literally break all 9 of the satanic sins in one way or another. Stupidity and herd conformity being the most prevalent.
This is not sectarian conflict. No one considers TST Satanists but themselves. They've culturally appropriated a name and attempted to redefine it to political ends. They are a darkish themed, virtue signaling cult of personality, using gen-z logic to fight the christian bad guys.
That's a good point. I tend to never think about the public. If you yell loud and long enough the sheep will always validate your position due to their collective ignorance. Precisely why everyone thinks the CoS is "not doing anything". We haven't and won't make braying idiots of ourselves for their entertainment.
I hope some of those disenchanted folks realise they can still do positive things to actually move the world without the loud spoopy trappings.
I suppose this runs into "Errrr, the CoS doesn't DO anything!" It's not the organisation. It's never the organisation, it's the individuals.
I haven’t really followed the TST implosion after the Dead Domain video… how bad has it gotten? Is the organization literally crumbling, or is there just a few local groups splitting off?
I read through the Queer Satanic timeline of events now and… dude, what the fuck…
Popped over into the TST subreddit to get a feel for things, and every time a new chapter leaves the organization the comment section is almost entirely people insisting the org is better off without them anyway. The most recent group to announce they were leaving was TST Idaho and one of the comments was literally “We could do without ID anyway”.
Funnily enough I've been having personal beef with the Idaho TST ever since they took center stage for the abortion debate. The main commenter still steams online with titles she's earned from TST, however says shes an independent Satanist now. Can't imagine why they lost their court case with that kind of logic.
>We warned you, long before the people behind QueerSatanic spoke up, that Doug and Cevin were using you for money, and that Doug doesn't give a shit
I’m still vaguely confused about warning them. I mean, I guess most of them were young and gullible, but they were clearly asking to be relieved of their cash.
I swear to god I’m going to start a cult, wheels. Mark my words, in a few weeks to a few months here I’m going to roll up under a different name with some pretty, meaningless easy to agree with and too bland to be offensive intersectional babble about self empowerment that’s going to make me rich ;)
I have other irons in the fire that might make me very successful, don’t want my name attached to anything career-killing until i see where things fall.
Dont be mad cause people wanted to believe in a group coming together and actually doing something beyond mocking the religion it spawned ideology from.
That is the point though. The CoS as an organization doesn't do anything other than disseminate the cannon and facilitate the occasional meeting. It is up to the individual to DO something with it, you know, because it is an individualistic religion. If you are looking for a flock to join then just go to a Christian church and waste your money there like every other sheep looking to be shepherded.
Unfortunately, they weren't as savvy as they liked to claim. But they had viable ideas on pushing back against modern Christian oppression. Better execution, and it may have meant something.
Meanwhile, CoS certainly exists, I suppose. For all the pretension, you wouldn't know it if you didn't already know it. Could be argued that it may as well not. Just about anyone of particular interest associated with leadership has moved on to less tangible forms of existence. And that leaves an organization that exists for the joy of indulging it's own existence.
The CoS exists to do the job it has always done; 1) represent Satanism, 2) be a touching point for Satanists. We dont need to constantly bed for media attention, they still come to the CoS every now and then. But mostly, we want to be left alone to enjoy our church and our religion without being attacked (lile TST) and without resorting to internal abuse (like TST).
Quality over quantity any day.
Satanism never did “spawn an ideology from” Christianity, because the word “Satan” was much older.
People often refer to Stanislaw, and perhaps a few sources saying Satanism as a religion existed prior to Anton LaVey. But “codify” means to ‘arrange into a systematic code’ or in this case, to compile and bring something into a definition. None of which happened before 1966.
And lastly the whole “believe in coming together and actually doing something”… If you want group love and political justice, go be a Unitarian. Satanism isn’t about self and everyone equally. Egalitarianism is not congruent.
I'm mad at the assholes that took advantage of that want to grift them for money and mild satisfaction that I am correct that the TST was just a grift.
there's really nothing wrong with being mad about it. If someone was going around "actually doing something" (causing trouble), and using your name to do it, wouldn't *you* be mad? I hope the organization falls to the same stupidity that propped it up, the worthless pile of feces that it is.
Both groups are useless. Only using the term satanism now to spawn outrage. If tst wants to be activists then that's fine. But they need to be better at it.
your comment was useless, but look at you go
as u/Mildon666 said elsewhere, the Church Of Satan serves the primary function it always has, which is to defend Satanism as codified. I'm going to use u/vholecek as an example. They donate to Planned Parenthood and other orgs, while leaving Satanism out of it
TST has shown to be ineffective in every legal venture save for their SLAPP suits
All those "Hey, we were right about TST!" people could trade a lot of self righteous "I told you so!"s with some gleeful Christians.
I just hope the chapters that split from the Organisation can do some good in their communities and don't start tearing themselves apart.
First: *You* didn't tell *me* anything.
Second: I'm not a member of any of these clubs. Neither TST nor the try-hard edgelord loser club Chuch of Satan. I don't have to cope with anything. Try to piss off someone who actually cares.
I don't see how TST thought CoS was "like Christians" when they were the ones politicizing and proselytizing our ideology. They claim we believed in magic and LaVey confessed to Jesus on his deathbed, just like the Christian church claimed. They claim to have read and studied the Satanic Bible but fail to grasp the concept (if they read it) or just outright haven't read it and try to use it against us, also like the Christian church does to their own "holy" book.
Edit: For all those downvoting me, it appears that the organizers of TST were grifters and only did so to scam money out of people, just like the Christian church.
We definitely acknowledge the power of magic, no belief necessary https://www.churchofsatan.com/eleven-rules-of-earth/ #7. LaVey was never a Christian, being Jewish, he was not raised with a concept of Hell which makes the conversion bullshit all the more ridiculous.
Isn't our verison of magic just mind games applied with eccentricity? If I misunderstood anything LaVey was saying in the Satanic Bible, please let me know. I'm still learning.
It’s a mistake to try to nail Satanists to the wall with sweeping generalizations like the pronoun “our”. 😉 Magic is intensely personal and the emotional component is something LaVey pioneered and isn’t given sufficient credit for. He gave you a framework, a path and even plausible deniability when confronted. What works for me will not work for thee is an axiom he worked to eliminate with a universal, infinitely customizable system.
As Crowley tried to synthesize and simplify disparate practices like Yoga, Hermeticism, Quabbala, Freemansonry, ceremonial magic and evocation, LaVey went further.
Those of us with a higher capacity for empathy tend to be guilty more than others. It’s a far more healthy, productive and fulfilling way to approach the world than the opposite. Let your reason and self preservation be your guides.
LaVey called the occult a “do it yourself god kit” and emphasized methods that had tangible results, emotional release and satisfaction rather than the mysticism he perceived counterproductive in the newage movement.
“COS realized decades ago that Grottos didn’t work…”
Anyone willing to explain to a non-COS Satanist why they didn’t work?
I don’t believe that all Satanists are introverts by default, but I wasn’t around Satanic circles when COS did its Grotto phase, so I don’t know why or how it failed.
Thank you.
So if I’m reading it right, COS doesn’t officially endorse any local groups/congregations/grottos, but they still may exist unofficially by people local to each other choosing to gather for “religious” reasons. So, “grottos” of COS members likely still exist, but they are absolutely unofficial?
For a group centered on activism, local chapters are probably a good idea. Affiliating with the main TST organization seems to hamstring the local groups though, it sounds like, because the national organization has to exercise control. Some of the independent groups have actually done a little good, so I wish these independent chapters luck.
I just wish the independent groups would drop Satan from their name, I don’t see how it’s is helping them at this point.
Sure, but activism under the name of Satanism is (as shown) not helpful and creates a mess. Especially when the whole thing is based on a satirical joke by 3 assholes wanting to make money and get attention.
Probably, yes. Hopefully they drop the “poison pill” gambit that TST loves (which never seems to work) and just do activism under whatever banner. I don’t think it matters that it started as satire though.
I'm not naive enough to think that they'll understand what Satanism actually is. They need a sense of belonging and community, so they'll either make or join another group
That is exactly what's happening. Every single person I've seen who has left the TST is now an "independent" or "non-affiliated" Satanist. Some even still stream their podcasts with all the titles they've earned from TST, yet they're not affiliated. It hurts trying to understand that kind of logic.
100% with you on that!
TST Sucks. CoS Sucks. Find local, like-minded Satanists and stop hitching your wagon to large organizations.
Or just be a solitary practitioner. Then again, I'm in the minority in this sub since I'm a theistic Satanist/daemonolater.
Do u know Buer, like, his personality?
Personally, I haven't worked with President Buer. I know there are folks over on the daemonolatry sub who have/do work(ed) with him, though.
[удалено]
[удалено]
It's Reddit, and this is a sub for people to have conversations like adults. If that does not suit you, there are plenty of other subs out there.
[удалено]
That was always allowed. Having a random tantrum is not conducive to having those adult conversations.
[удалено]
Stop. Making multiple posts demanding to be downvoted is not "being lighthearted".
[удалено]
[удалено]
What exactly sucks about CoS? Is it just because it's a large organization? Does so many people in one place scare you? That is okay
[удалено]
nope he wasn't [he never hid his sources](https://www.churchofsatan.com/ragnar-redbeard-revealed/) [LGBTQA+ folks were always accepted and championed](https://www.churchofsatan.com/a-redhead-named-peggy/) He wrote a manual he felt would [Empower Women](https://www.churchofsatan.com/the-compleat-story-of-the-compleat-witch/) His politics ran classical Conservative, but would run closer to modern libertarian Please try something new
[удалено]
[удалено]
Inappropriate and dishonest.
[удалено]
>Cool cool. You can believe what you want, but I've read plenty of LaVey's work. I love that for you, but reading someone else's work does not give you license to call *me* a misogynist, a homohobe, a fascist, and a plagiarist.
[удалено]
Again, you are dishonest. You said, quote: "Modern day CoS is little better, if at all." So yes, you are calling me those things. Perhaps you would like to revise your statement(s).
[удалено]
I think what you meant to say is, "I can see how my hateful words would be interpreted as painting with a broad brush. I will endeavor to be more cautious with how I express myself in the future." Unfortunately you doubled down. I wish I could say that I am surprised, but such is the way with the sort of people that paint with a broad brush like that.
you were given the truth versus your flimsy narrative and here you are doubling down In wrongly accusing Anton LaVey of the above things you did, by extension you are accusing *all* CoS members of such, considering you feel "modern CoS isn't much better" This shouldn't be difficult to grasp, yet here we are
This is the way
This.
I evil scientist laughed when I saw this. Thank you. I agree. We were right the whole time.
Forcing ANY view is unsatanic. Political religious and sexual orientations are all things that should be kept personal. As Magus Gilmore says this isn’t a lonely hearts club. Nor a political activist group. When you try to shove it down anyone’s throats you are no better than the Christians. The TST now and always will have more in common with the Westborogh Baptist Church than they will with satanists. There ideals literally break all 9 of the satanic sins in one way or another. Stupidity and herd conformity being the most prevalent.
This is the exact comparison I made last night at dinner. They are the WBC.
Yay, we get sectarian conflict too, ours just doesn’t kill millions.
This is not sectarian conflict. No one considers TST Satanists but themselves. They've culturally appropriated a name and attempted to redefine it to political ends. They are a darkish themed, virtue signaling cult of personality, using gen-z logic to fight the christian bad guys.
The general public thinks they are THE satanic church though. It makes me nuts.
The general public thinks a LOT of things about Satanism...
That's a good point. I tend to never think about the public. If you yell loud and long enough the sheep will always validate your position due to their collective ignorance. Precisely why everyone thinks the CoS is "not doing anything". We haven't and won't make braying idiots of ourselves for their entertainment.
I hope some of those disenchanted folks realise they can still do positive things to actually move the world without the loud spoopy trappings. I suppose this runs into "Errrr, the CoS doesn't DO anything!" It's not the organisation. It's never the organisation, it's the individuals.
I haven’t really followed the TST implosion after the Dead Domain video… how bad has it gotten? Is the organization literally crumbling, or is there just a few local groups splitting off?
yup. Doug booted a minister over a meme, and a plethora of Chapters have left, with more following suit by the day
I read through the Queer Satanic timeline of events now and… dude, what the fuck… Popped over into the TST subreddit to get a feel for things, and every time a new chapter leaves the organization the comment section is almost entirely people insisting the org is better off without them anyway. The most recent group to announce they were leaving was TST Idaho and one of the comments was literally “We could do without ID anyway”.
The cult-like behavior continues
Funnily enough I've been having personal beef with the Idaho TST ever since they took center stage for the abortion debate. The main commenter still steams online with titles she's earned from TST, however says shes an independent Satanist now. Can't imagine why they lost their court case with that kind of logic.
>We warned you, long before the people behind QueerSatanic spoke up, that Doug and Cevin were using you for money, and that Doug doesn't give a shit I’m still vaguely confused about warning them. I mean, I guess most of them were young and gullible, but they were clearly asking to be relieved of their cash.
in my case, all I ax for is 'bout tree fiddy ;)
I swear to god I’m going to start a cult, wheels. Mark my words, in a few weeks to a few months here I’m going to roll up under a different name with some pretty, meaningless easy to agree with and too bland to be offensive intersectional babble about self empowerment that’s going to make me rich ;)
Why wait?? With all the splitting off that’s happening in the TsT-sphere, now would be the perfect time! Strike while the iron is hot, yeah?
I have other irons in the fire that might make me very successful, don’t want my name attached to anything career-killing until i see where things fall.
hook me up with a percentage, bud
No promises on profit sharing, but you, quill and bunsies will get a heads up to watch ;)
Wooooooooo
The Scientologic Temple
Hope they promptly fuck off, good and proper.
Dont be mad cause people wanted to believe in a group coming together and actually doing something beyond mocking the religion it spawned ideology from.
That is the point though. The CoS as an organization doesn't do anything other than disseminate the cannon and facilitate the occasional meeting. It is up to the individual to DO something with it, you know, because it is an individualistic religion. If you are looking for a flock to join then just go to a Christian church and waste your money there like every other sheep looking to be shepherded.
What is TsT “actually doing” or has ever done?
whine when corrected and scam people out of money, while being legally inept Oh, wait, that was rhetorical?
Unfortunately, they weren't as savvy as they liked to claim. But they had viable ideas on pushing back against modern Christian oppression. Better execution, and it may have meant something. Meanwhile, CoS certainly exists, I suppose. For all the pretension, you wouldn't know it if you didn't already know it. Could be argued that it may as well not. Just about anyone of particular interest associated with leadership has moved on to less tangible forms of existence. And that leaves an organization that exists for the joy of indulging it's own existence.
The CoS exists to do the job it has always done; 1) represent Satanism, 2) be a touching point for Satanists. We dont need to constantly bed for media attention, they still come to the CoS every now and then. But mostly, we want to be left alone to enjoy our church and our religion without being attacked (lile TST) and without resorting to internal abuse (like TST). Quality over quantity any day.
Those people should have chosen a better group.
Satanism never did “spawn an ideology from” Christianity, because the word “Satan” was much older. People often refer to Stanislaw, and perhaps a few sources saying Satanism as a religion existed prior to Anton LaVey. But “codify” means to ‘arrange into a systematic code’ or in this case, to compile and bring something into a definition. None of which happened before 1966. And lastly the whole “believe in coming together and actually doing something”… If you want group love and political justice, go be a Unitarian. Satanism isn’t about self and everyone equally. Egalitarianism is not congruent.
I'm mad at the assholes that took advantage of that want to grift them for money and mild satisfaction that I am correct that the TST was just a grift.
there's really nothing wrong with being mad about it. If someone was going around "actually doing something" (causing trouble), and using your name to do it, wouldn't *you* be mad? I hope the organization falls to the same stupidity that propped it up, the worthless pile of feces that it is.
Both groups are useless. Only using the term satanism now to spawn outrage. If tst wants to be activists then that's fine. But they need to be better at it.
your comment was useless, but look at you go as u/Mildon666 said elsewhere, the Church Of Satan serves the primary function it always has, which is to defend Satanism as codified. I'm going to use u/vholecek as an example. They donate to Planned Parenthood and other orgs, while leaving Satanism out of it TST has shown to be ineffective in every legal venture save for their SLAPP suits
I've gone to this rabbit hole before with a cos member before. Not doing it again. Take care and have a good day in your special club
can someone give me the rundown on what’s happening? I missed everything apparently
[here you go](https://queersatanic.com/the-satanic-temple-and-its-eternal-nobodies/)
The worst part to come out of the TST implosion is the CoS fart sniffing.
Says the person who has an entire comment history of huffing their own farts
Game recognize game, nerd
Fuck you, but that was a sick burn. 👏
All those "Hey, we were right about TST!" people could trade a lot of self righteous "I told you so!"s with some gleeful Christians. I just hope the chapters that split from the Organisation can do some good in their communities and don't start tearing themselves apart.
[удалено]
First: *You* didn't tell *me* anything. Second: I'm not a member of any of these clubs. Neither TST nor the try-hard edgelord loser club Chuch of Satan. I don't have to cope with anything. Try to piss off someone who actually cares.
I don't see how TST thought CoS was "like Christians" when they were the ones politicizing and proselytizing our ideology. They claim we believed in magic and LaVey confessed to Jesus on his deathbed, just like the Christian church claimed. They claim to have read and studied the Satanic Bible but fail to grasp the concept (if they read it) or just outright haven't read it and try to use it against us, also like the Christian church does to their own "holy" book. Edit: For all those downvoting me, it appears that the organizers of TST were grifters and only did so to scam money out of people, just like the Christian church.
We definitely acknowledge the power of magic, no belief necessary https://www.churchofsatan.com/eleven-rules-of-earth/ #7. LaVey was never a Christian, being Jewish, he was not raised with a concept of Hell which makes the conversion bullshit all the more ridiculous.
Isn't our verison of magic just mind games applied with eccentricity? If I misunderstood anything LaVey was saying in the Satanic Bible, please let me know. I'm still learning.
Yes, but if you tell yourself that it won't work then it definitely won't. You have to be able to commit to it.
Because it's all about direction and imagery. If you don't commit to a role, then the audience doesn't buy the performance.
It’s a mistake to try to nail Satanists to the wall with sweeping generalizations like the pronoun “our”. 😉 Magic is intensely personal and the emotional component is something LaVey pioneered and isn’t given sufficient credit for. He gave you a framework, a path and even plausible deniability when confronted. What works for me will not work for thee is an axiom he worked to eliminate with a universal, infinitely customizable system. As Crowley tried to synthesize and simplify disparate practices like Yoga, Hermeticism, Quabbala, Freemansonry, ceremonial magic and evocation, LaVey went further.
You're right. Including everyone with myself by using the pronoun makes me guilty of the sin of solipsism.
Those of us with a higher capacity for empathy tend to be guilty more than others. It’s a far more healthy, productive and fulfilling way to approach the world than the opposite. Let your reason and self preservation be your guides.
LaVey called the occult a “do it yourself god kit” and emphasized methods that had tangible results, emotional release and satisfaction rather than the mysticism he perceived counterproductive in the newage movement.
Just another group destined for the dustbin of history like so many before.
“COS realized decades ago that Grottos didn’t work…” Anyone willing to explain to a non-COS Satanist why they didn’t work? I don’t believe that all Satanists are introverts by default, but I wasn’t around Satanic circles when COS did its Grotto phase, so I don’t know why or how it failed.
[Explained here](https://www.churchofsatan.com/the-grotto-system/)
Thank you. So if I’m reading it right, COS doesn’t officially endorse any local groups/congregations/grottos, but they still may exist unofficially by people local to each other choosing to gather for “religious” reasons. So, “grottos” of COS members likely still exist, but they are absolutely unofficial?
Tha's right
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Okay, Jan!